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Royal Air Maroc applies for Boston

Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:54 pm
by LAXintl
Royal Air Maroc applied with DOT for authority for service between Casablanca and Boston.

RAM says it seeks to commence the service June 2019.

No schedule details provided.

OST-2019-0003

Re: Royal Air Maroc applies for Boston

Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 11:28 pm
by janders
Wonder if seasonal or year-round?

Re: Royal Air Maroc applies for Boston

Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 11:29 pm
by B1168
Do they plan to fly ORD or DFW? They seem to be only interested in coastal markets.

Re: Royal Air Maroc applies for Boston

Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 11:32 pm
by slcdeltarumd11
Does RAM make money? They would probably have to rely heavily on connections ??

Re: Royal Air Maroc applies for Boston

Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 11:32 pm
by OzarkD9S
Terminal E is already bursting at the seams. Come on Massport, put some international arrivals facilities in Terminal A.

Re: Royal Air Maroc applies for Boston

Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 11:41 pm
by behramjee
I would have definitely opted for ORD iso BOS to take advantage of AAs greater hub presence at the former airport.

Re: Royal Air Maroc applies for Boston

Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 11:43 pm
by chrisnh
I can’t see this being more than 3x weekly...and even that might be too much.

Re: Royal Air Maroc applies for Boston

Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 11:48 pm
by Bigant0408
The way BOS is receiving new flights I’m not surprised. But overall I would have thought ORD or DFW would get service first. Like other poster said 3x weekly at the most for service

Re: Royal Air Maroc applies for Boston

Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 11:49 pm
by usflyer msp
behramjee wrote:
I would have definitely opted for ORD iso BOS to take advantage of AAs greater hub presence at the former airport.


AT interlines heavily with B6 so BOS makes sense in some ways...

Re: Royal Air Maroc applies for Boston

Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 12:45 am
by LAXintl
Kinda interesting RAM is saturating the Northeast (BOS-IAD-JFK). Thats lots of capacity for a quite small market from the U.S.

Re: Royal Air Maroc applies for Boston

Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 1:07 am
by gatibosgru
Hope there are some interesting intro fares!

Re: Royal Air Maroc applies for Boston

Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 1:08 am
by adamh8297
LAXintl wrote:
Kinda interesting RAM is saturating the Northeast (BOS-IAD-JFK). Thats lots of capacity for a quite small market from the U.S.


RAM does sell CMN-Europe from the USA and I know its niche,small, etc but boy do they have West Africa well covered. B6 helps as always but recent occurrences in Morocco unfortunately will not.

Image

Re: Royal Air Maroc applies for Boston

Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 1:15 am
by lesfalls
adamh8297 wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
Kinda interesting RAM is saturating the Northeast (BOS-IAD-JFK). Thats lots of capacity for a quite small market from the U.S.


RAM does sell CMN-Europe from the USA and I know its niche,small, etc but boy do they have West Africa well covered. B6 helps as always but recent occurrences in Morocco unfortunately will not.

Image


Which occurences recently in Morroco may I ask?

Re: Royal Air Maroc applies for Boston

Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 1:19 am
by mercure1
adamh8297 wrote:

RAM does sell CMN-Europe from the USA and I know its niche,small, etc but boy do they have West Africa well covered. B6 helps as always but recent occurrences in Morocco unfortunately will not.


That map hardly indicative of realistic connections. AT hardly offers much frequency which makes most connections not realistic from the U.S.
RAM is not TK with multiple waves at its hub with high frequency

Re: Royal Air Maroc applies for Boston

Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 1:24 am
by TheKennady2
Good to see AT taking more advatage of the good geography they have to connect passengers from North America, allthough i did not expect BOS but 3x weekly is low risk if they choose that.

Re: Royal Air Maroc applies for Boston

Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 1:54 am
by johhn14
This has been a very strong rumor over the past 6 months in various BOS aviation forums.

Re: Royal Air Maroc applies for Boston

Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 2:30 pm
by airbazar
The problem for RAM is that is has a really poor reputation for connections.
Word around the travel industry that sells Morocco - my wife :) - is to avoid connecting at CMN at all costs. So it will be interesting to see how this flight does because Boston doesn't strike me as a city with a lot of demand to Africa in general and Morocco in particular. And if they are hoping to capitalize on the BOS-Europe traffic they better improve their reputation as a hub.
On the flip side, like Portugal and Spain, Morocco has seen a significant growth in tourism over the last few years as a result of the same events that led people to go to Portugal and Spain: The instability in Egypt, Tunisia, and Turkey.

Re: Royal Air Maroc applies for Boston

Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 2:57 pm
by chrisnh
In airline terms, 'June' is like a nanosecond away...and all we've seen is the APPLICATION for service, not even the approval of it.

Re: Royal Air Maroc applies for Boston

Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:04 pm
by Jouhou
behramjee wrote:
I would have definitely opted for ORD iso BOS to take advantage of AAs greater hub presence at the former airport.


I have no idea what the statistics are for Moroccan immigrant populations are between major U.S. cities, but Anecdotally I can say I've noticed a lot of Moroccan immigrants locally. It stands out because we aren't exactly a hot spot for immigrants from other parts of the MENA region.

It's possible O&D numbers might be surprisingly high because of factors like that.

Re: Royal Air Maroc applies for Boston

Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:13 pm
by Blerg
I think this route will rely on connecting passengers, mostly heading to Africa. Also, Morocco is a really popular tourist destination and Boston is a wealthy city whose citizens could afford to visit it.

Now, I think the time is right for RAM to work on improving its onboard product.

Re: Royal Air Maroc applies for Boston

Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:32 pm
by VS4ever
Massport has definitely been looking for something to Africa for a long time and this might be the piece in the puzzle, some had wondered if ET might have given it a go, but AT it is or so it seems. The BOS option came up when they announced the OW acceptance a couple of months back. I think anything that gives Massport that presence right now will make them happy and especially if AT utilize Terminal E at quieter times, although we are yet to see the timings proposed. I am curious if this one makes a go of it for sure, it’s definitely out there, but if AT can figure it out i terms of connections, as others have said 3x weekly could work
Time will tell, thankfully this will be an easy spot in the Massport numbers as They have a section conveniently for North Africa :)

Re: Royal Air Maroc applies for Boston

Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 9:29 pm
by PVD757
If the flight is timed to connect to and from RAI & SID, it could be another nail in the coffin for the existing VR service as it exists today.

Re: Royal Air Maroc applies for Boston

Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 9:42 pm
Will be interesting to see the timings of CMN-BOS-CMN. AT's JFK operation doesn't connect well at all to its Africa-wide services, except its second-daily Sunday service.

Presently, CMN-JFK-CMN timings are:

Daily: CMN-JFK 1615-1820; JFK-CMN 2020-0905*
Sat: CMN-JFK 2240-0045; Sun: CMN-JFK 0645-1930

Where connections exist in one direction they invariably don't in the other. Those with two-way connectivity - albeit in a long 5h period - are very limited and depend on the day of the week (except RAK/AGA):

RAK
AGA
LIS
OPO
MRS
AGP
TUN
FCO

Its additional 1x weekly service add more connections, but again few in itself. DSS, for example, is added. There's RUH in codeshare with SV. It gets a bit more interesting when this extra weekend service is considered in conjunction with its existing daily flights. Then a number of African services are added, albeit often with long or reasonably long connections, e.g.:

LOS-CMN: 0625-1100; CMN-JFK: 1615-1820
JFK-CMN: 0645-1930; CMN-LOS: 2245-0315*

ABJ-CMN: 0545-1100; CMN-JFK: 1615-1820
JFK-CMN: 0645-1930; CMN-ABJ: 2120-0050*

TUN-CMN: 1740-2030; CMN-JFK: 2240-0045*
JFK-CMN: 2020-0905*; CMN-TUN: 1405-1640

ALG-CMN: 1505-1700; CMN-JFK: 2240-0045*
JFK-CMN: 2020-0905*; CMN-ALG: 1200-1335

IST-CMN: 1745-2040; CMN-JFK: 2240-0045*
JFK-CMN: 2020-0905*; CMN-IST: 0950-1615

Etc., etc.

Not many, overall, and mainly aided by the additional 1x weekly. There's not a long by way of coordination.

Re: Royal Air Maroc applies for Boston

Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 10:11 pm
by NassAir
janders wrote:
Wonder if seasonal or year-round?


Year Round

Tomorrow at 10AM (GMT+1), full details of this new route on RAM's Group:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/flyram/

Re: Royal Air Maroc applies for Boston

Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 10:13 pm
by NassAir
PVD757 wrote:
If the flight is timed to connect to and from RAI & SID, it could be another nail in the coffin for the existing VR service as it exists today.


SID route from CMN is closed.

Re: Royal Air Maroc applies for Boston

Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 11:56 pm
by chrisnh
The 737MAX makes sense for this route, as long as it’s got the legs.

Re: Royal Air Maroc applies for Boston

Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:19 am
by BostonBeau
Boston had service to Rabat and Casablanca in the 60's. Pan Am operated two flights a week originating in JFK, then Boston, then Santa Maria (Azores), then Lisbon, and finally the destination in Morocco. This was with B707 equipment. The flight served Rabat while the Casablanca airport was being renovated, then switched to Casablanca once the airport reopened. At one point, the flight continued past Rabat to Conakry in Guinea and Monrovia in Liberia. http://www.timetableimages.com/ttimages ... a66-10.jpg shows the flight operating the full route once a week. Later on, the flight terminated at Rabat/Casablanca and operated twice a week.

Re: Royal Air Maroc applies for Boston

Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:53 am
by LH658
Problem with ORD is IB is close to CMN, and is already serving ORD, that's my assumption. It seems IB and Royal Air Morac have the same traffic in mind.

Re: Royal Air Maroc applies for Boston

Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 1:12 am
by lesfalls
Had the possibility to talk to a RAM agent at MAD and was told that there are 10 passengers a day heading to the U.S with them (JFK & IAD). With MIA and BOS to come online that surely will rise and I bet it's higher from other U.S city (especially Secondary French cities).

Re: Royal Air Maroc applies for Boston

Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:39 am
by S0Y
lesfalls wrote:

Which occurences recently in Morroco may I ask?



ISIS style terrorist killings of 2 tourists https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/20/africa/m ... index.html

Re: Royal Air Maroc applies for Boston

Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:59 am
by MIflyer12
[email protected] wrote:
Where connections exist in one direction they invariably don't in the other. Those with two-way connectivity - albeit in a long 5h period - are very limited and depend on the day of the week (except RAK/AGA):

RAK
AGA
LIS
OPO
MRS
AGP
TUN
FCO


LIS
OPO
MRS
AGP
TUN
FCO

are all served reasonably well 1-stop from BOS by TP/IB/BA/AF, etc. Maybe they think this route will survive on O&D plus AGA and RAK.

lesfalls wrote:
Had the possibility to talk to a RAM agent at MAD and was told that there are 10 passengers a day heading to the U.S with them (JFK & IAD).


Given the presence of MAD-JFK/EWR/IAD non-stops I'll guess that RAM is doing this with garbage fares. Aviation economists had figured out 40 years ago that much use of marginal cost pricing is lethal.

Re: Royal Air Maroc applies for Boston

Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:47 am
by SCQ83
MIflyer12 wrote:
Given the presence of MAD-JFK/EWR/IAD non-stops I'll guess that RAM is doing this with garbage fares. Aviation economists had figured out 40 years ago that much use of marginal cost pricing is lethal.


IAD-MAD (as well as IAD-BCN) are seasonal only.

Also RAM serves AGP, VLC and BIO.

Re: Royal Air Maroc applies for Boston

Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:11 am
MIflyer12 wrote:
[email protected] wrote:
Where connections exist in one direction they invariably don't in the other. Those with two-way connectivity - albeit in a long 5h period - are very limited and depend on the day of the week (except RAK/AGA):

RAK
AGA
LIS
OPO
MRS
AGP
TUN
FCO


LIS
OPO
MRS
AGP
TUN
FCO

are all served reasonably well 1-stop from BOS by TP/IB/BA/AF, etc. Maybe they think this route will survive on O&D plus AGA and RAK


Of course they are, and goes to show how few two-way connections are available for AT's daily JFK. A shame they don't connect to AT's myriad African destinations, but there you are.

Re: Royal Air Maroc applies for Boston

Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:57 am
by raylee67
I wonder if RAM will start to look to East Asia as it enters OW. Morocco is actually a quite popular tourist destination for high-end (read high spending) tourists from Hong Kong, Taiwan, Japan and Korea.

Re: Royal Air Maroc applies for Boston

Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:53 am
by Msep003
This is really an agressive market . TAP is already draining lots of PAX thru LIS to the rest of Europe and Africa and Europe to Africa Market as well .
If the RAM tries to catch Nor American - African traffic they could be a big winner as RAM compete with AF/DL and other european carrier on this segment .

Re: Royal Air Maroc applies for Boston

Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:42 pm
by chrisnh
Flights 210/211.
787
3x weekly (Monday, Thursday, Saturday)
Lands at BOS 11pm (sorry, photographers)
Departs BOS 1am
First flight June 24.

Re: Royal Air Maroc applies for Boston

Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:52 pm
by adamh8297
Is the new terminal 1 complete in CMN? Sounds like a possible BER situation?

johhn14 wrote:
This has been a very strong rumor over the past 6 months in various BOS aviation forums.


Actually this was a wish list route that we used some amount of logic and not blind fanboyism to discuss: easily served by 787, could do both Africa/Europe connections, B6 partnership, RAM appeared to be in expansion mode, Massport will give some support in Year 1+2, etc.

chrisnh wrote:
Flights 210/211.
787
3x weekly (Monday, Thursday, Saturday)
Lands at BOS 11pm (sorry, photographers)
Departs BOS 1am
First flight June 24.


Wow - this schedule appears to be geared for some North African/Southern European connections and is not good for B6 connections. People are going to bite on long layovers to save cash or to avoid 2-3 stop itineraries.

mercure1 wrote:
adamh8297 wrote:

RAM does sell CMN-Europe from the USA and I know its niche,small, etc but boy do they have West Africa well covered. B6 helps as always but recent occurrences in Morocco unfortunately will not.


That map hardly indicative of realistic connections. AT hardly offers much frequency which makes most connections not realistic from the U.S.
RAM is not TK with multiple waves at its hub with high frequency


I initially cautiously agreed with and should have put the caveat in this post. Now seeing the schedule I totally agree with you!

chrisnh wrote:
In airline terms, 'June' is like a nanosecond away...and all we've seen is the APPLICATION for service, not even the approval of it.


Does USA government shutdown affect this? Does AT really need to submit these since its open skies? For example, DY did not file paperwork to DOT for BOS-MAD/FCO.

Jouhou wrote:
behramjee wrote:
I would have definitely opted for ORD iso BOS to take advantage of AAs greater hub presence at the former airport.


I have no idea what the statistics are for Moroccan immigrant populations are between major U.S. cities, but Anecdotally I can say I've noticed a lot of Moroccan immigrants locally. It stands out because we aren't exactly a hot spot for immigrants from other parts of the MENA region.

It's possible O&D numbers might be surprisingly high because of factors like that.


https://www.migrationpolicy.org/sites/d ... orocco.pdf

For metro areas with largest amounts of Morrocans, it is in this order: NYC, BOS, WAS, LAX, MIA. 4 out of those 5 should be served by the middle of this year. Still the numbers are small (5,000 immigrants in BOS). An interesting point is that while not large, immigration to USA from Morocco has increased dramatically since 2000.

[email protected] wrote:

Of course they are, and goes to show how few two-way connections are available for AT's daily JFK. A shame they don't connect to AT's myriad African destinations, but there you are.


Especially ACC - decent sized Ghanaian population in Massachusetts which seems to be clustered in Worcester area.

Re: Royal Air Maroc applies for Boston

Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:10 pm
by georgiabill
What would the flight time be from BOS-CMN? Guessing around 7 hours which would mean a 2:00PM arrival in CMN. When are their flights to West Africa scheduled to depart? If the connection times were useful CMN might be a way for BOS to reach destinations in Africa more easily.

Re: Royal Air Maroc applies for Boston

Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:39 pm
by tlecam
JFK-CMN is between 6-7 hours, so 7 is probably a good number to use.

Re: Royal Air Maroc applies for Boston

Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 6:37 pm
by stlgph
OzarkD9S wrote:
Terminal E is already bursting at the seams. Come on Massport, put some international arrivals facilities in Terminal A.


If they have a schedule similar to JFK where they arrive at say 1 in the morning and then head out a few hours later around 8/9/10, there is plenty of room.

Re: Royal Air Maroc applies for Boston

Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:28 pm
by NickolayAv
chrisnh wrote:
Flights 210/211.
787
3x weekly (Monday, Thursday, Saturday)
Lands at BOS 11pm (sorry, photographers)
Departs BOS 1am
First flight June 24.

Source?

Re: Royal Air Maroc applies for Boston

Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:57 pm
by OzarkD9S
stlgph wrote:
OzarkD9S wrote:

Terminal E is already bursting at the seams. Come on Massport, put some international arrivals facilities in Terminal A.


If they have a schedule similar to JFK where they arrive at say 1 in the morning and then head out a few hours later around 8/9/10, there is plenty of room.


Weird schedule for what is basically TATL, but if it works with their CMN banks, why not?

Re: Royal Air Maroc applies for Boston

Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 12:18 pm
by airbazar
OzarkD9S wrote:
stlgph wrote:
OzarkD9S wrote:

Terminal E is already bursting at the seams. Come on Massport, put some international arrivals facilities in Terminal A.


If they have a schedule similar to JFK where they arrive at say 1 in the morning and then head out a few hours later around 8/9/10, there is plenty of room.


Weird schedule for what is basically TATL, but if it works with their CMN banks, why not?

It's weird because it's catering to the really cheap tourists not business passengers. RAM is known for offering really cheap fares between the U.S. and Europe and I suspect they will continue this trend from BOS. People who are looking for the cheapest fare and don't mind connecting in CMN are not interested in arriving early for a work day..

Re: Royal Air Maroc applies for Boston

Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 12:25 pm
by chrisnh
If you’re coming back into the states and Boston isn’t your final destination, bring a big SUDOKU book and a charger for your iPad and iPhone.