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LAX772LR
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Viking Cruises revives Mississippi plans; what it means for MSY/MEM/STL/MSP air service?

Sat Jan 05, 2019 3:22 am

Viking River Cruises is moving forward operating Mississippi cruises originating in MSY, and has now secured a US-based operator for their ships.

This is a rather pleasant surprise, considering that there's been essentially zilch public mention for 3yrs+!

Louisiana-based Edison Chouest will build, own and lease-back up to six US-based vessels by 2027.
http://www.chouest.com/

Service is expected to begin in 2021 with MSY-MSY roundtrip, MSY-MEM 1way, and STL-MSP 1way cruises offerings.

Viking has also revived the Mississippi section to their website (previously taken down) and also released prospective objectives below:

Image

*********************************
Posted here to focus on what this means for pax service, as these cruises often cater to pax who will pay a premium to travel in comfort.

MSY and MSP have multiple nonstops/carriers to Europe, thus those could obviously be utilized.... but I wonder if this could be the catalyst that sees TATLs return to MEM and STL?
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
Jshank83
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Re: Viking Cruises revives Mississippi plans; what it means for MSY/MEM/STL/MSP air service?

Sat Jan 05, 2019 3:24 am

I’ve always said STL is the Miami of the Midwest.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Viking Cruises revives Mississippi plans; what it means for MSY/MEM/STL/MSP air service?

Sat Jan 05, 2019 3:27 am

Jshank83 wrote:
I’ve always said STL is the Miami of the Midwest.

At a loss for what on Earth that could actually mean.... but sounds like a nice sentiment regardless. :)
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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Re: Viking Cruises revives Mississippi plans; what it means for MSY/MEM/STL/MSP air service?

Sat Jan 05, 2019 3:32 am

Jshank83 wrote:
I’ve always said STL is the Miami of the Midwest.

Indeed, neither has a non-stop to Asia! :biggrin:
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Re: Viking Cruises revives Mississippi plans; what it means for MSY/MEM/STL/MSP air service?

Sat Jan 05, 2019 3:34 am

LAX772LR wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
I’ve always said STL is the Miami of the Midwest.

At a loss for what on Earth that could actually mean.... but sounds like a nice sentiment regardless. :)


When the news came out a few years ago about them doing cruises and having starts/stops in STL, I said it. Miami has a bunch of cruises that start there, so I was making a joke about how STL will be the same thing.
 
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Re: Viking Cruises revives Mississippi plans; what it means for MSY/MEM/STL/MSP air service?

Sat Jan 05, 2019 3:41 am

Subtract the Viking passengers who will drive to the cruise ports from the 165K. Divide result by total O&D traffic out of MSP+STL+MEM+MSY. Result = diddly squat.
 
Alias1024
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Re: Viking Cruises revives Mississippi plans; what it means for MSY/MEM/STL/MSP air service?

Sat Jan 05, 2019 3:48 am

If the ships are similar in size to their European river cruises, I can’t see them having a significant impact on air demand. Those ships are around 100 cabins, with perhaps a bit over 200 guests. So a fleet of 6 would have 1,200 guests sailing at any time, split between four ports.

For comparison, last summer Seattle had capacity of 10,100 passengers embarking on Saturdays for 7 day Alaska cruises. That’s the kind of numbers that would generate a real impact on air travel demand. The ships were Norwegian Bliss, Ruby Princess, and Holland America’s Eurodam for anyone curious.
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
 
winginit
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Re: Viking Cruises revives Mississippi plans; what it means for MSY/MEM/STL/MSP air service?

Sat Jan 05, 2019 3:52 am

Given how far out those traffic projections go, I think it will be macroeconomic factors that will ultimately determine whether we see the revival of TATL service to STL or MEM as opposed to Viking River Cruises. They'll help, but I don't think they alone will result in capacity adds.
 
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Re: Viking Cruises revives Mississippi plans; what it means for MSY/MEM/STL/MSP air service?

Sat Jan 05, 2019 4:08 am

Revelation wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
I’ve always said STL is the Miami of the Midwest.

Indeed, neither has a non-stop to Asia! :biggrin:

Overpriced malls -check
AA crew bases -check
aa eagle base -check
waterfront -check
and they are both on those stupid "hip" city lists
looks like the same city to me ;)
Instead of typing in "mods", consider using the report function.
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Re: Viking Cruises revives Mississippi plans; what it means for MSY/MEM/STL/MSP air service?

Sat Jan 05, 2019 4:29 am

LAX772LR wrote:
Viking River Cruises is moving forward operating Mississippi cruises originating in MSY, and has now secured a US-based operator for their ships.

This is a rather pleasant surprise, considering that there's been essentially zilch public mention for 3yrs+!

Louisiana-based Edison Chouest will build, own and lease-back up to six US-based vessels by 2027.
http://www.chouest.com/

Service is expected to begin in 2021 with MSY-MSY roundtrip, MSY-MEM 1way, and STL-MSP 1way cruises offerings.

Viking has also revived the Mississippi section to their website (previously taken down) and also released prospective objectives below:

Image

*********************************
Posted here to focus on what this means for pax service, as these cruises often cater to pax who will pay a premium to travel in comfort.

MSY and MSP have multiple nonstops/carriers to Europe, thus those could obviously be utilized.... but I wonder if this could be the catalyst that sees TATLs return to MEM and STL?

Do you have a link to the information about the base cities (MEM, MSY, ect)? I can't seem to find anything
Instead of typing in "mods", consider using the report function.
Love how every "travel blogger" says they will never fly AA/Ethihad again and then says it again and again on subsequent flights.
 
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Re: Viking Cruises revives Mississippi plans; what it means for MSY/MEM/STL/MSP air service?

Sat Jan 05, 2019 5:29 am

stl07 wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
Viking River Cruises is moving forward operating Mississippi cruises originating in MSY, and has now secured a US-based operator for their ships.

This is a rather pleasant surprise, considering that there's been essentially zilch public mention for 3yrs+!

Louisiana-based Edison Chouest will build, own and lease-back up to six US-based vessels by 2027.
http://www.chouest.com/

Service is expected to begin in 2021 with MSY-MSY roundtrip, MSY-MEM 1way, and STL-MSP 1way cruises offerings.

Viking has also revived the Mississippi section to their website (previously taken down) and also released prospective objectives below:

Image

*********************************
Posted here to focus on what this means for pax service, as these cruises often cater to pax who will pay a premium to travel in comfort.

MSY and MSP have multiple nonstops/carriers to Europe, thus those could obviously be utilized.... but I wonder if this could be the catalyst that sees TATLs return to MEM and STL?

Do you have a link to the information about the base cities (MEM, MSY, ect)? I can't seem to find anything

Never mind
https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/crui ... rward.html
Instead of typing in "mods", consider using the report function.
Love how every "travel blogger" says they will never fly AA/Ethihad again and then says it again and again on subsequent flights.
 
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Re: Viking Cruises revihuves Mississippi plans; what it means for MSY/MEM/STL/MSP air service?

Sat Jan 05, 2019 6:33 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
Subtract the Viking passengers who will drive to the cruise ports from the 165K. Divide result by total O&D traffic out of MSP+STL+MEM+MSY. Result = diddly squat.


Memphis gets a good bit of international tourists, think it was well over 2 million last year. Memphis and the surrounding area offers a good bit of music and food tourism. Smartly timed 2x to 3x seasonal service could actually work on a right sized plane.

Viking had told Memphis they wanted to dock two ships at a time in Memphis the first time around.
 
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Re: Viking Cruises revives Mississippi plans; what it means for MSY/MEM/STL/MSP air service?

Sat Jan 05, 2019 7:01 am

These cruises don’t carry enough pax to make that much of a difference. It’ll be a slight blip on the radar. Maybe MSY will be impacted the most due to having more cruises.
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Re: Viking Cruises revihuves Mississippi plans; what it means for MSY/MEM/STL/MSP air service?

Sat Jan 05, 2019 7:42 am

WaywardMemphian wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
Subtract the Viking passengers who will drive to the cruise ports from the 165K. Divide result by total O&D traffic out of MSP+STL+MEM+MSY. Result = diddly squat.


Memphis gets a good bit of international tourists, think it was well over 2 million last year. Memphis and the surrounding area offers a good bit of music and food tourism. Smartly timed 2x to 3x seasonal service could actually work on a right sized plane.

Viking had told Memphis they wanted to dock two ships at a time in Memphis the first time around.


2 million?!? That number is difficult to swallow given that MEM barely had 2 million enplanements last year. TN’s official statistics note that in 2015, 675K international visitors came into the state; including 209K from Europe and 117K from Asia. Most of that traffic was headed into Nashville, no doubt.
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Re: Viking Cruises revives Mississippi plans; what it means for MSY/MEM/STL/MSP air service?

Sat Jan 05, 2019 7:48 am

Jshank83 wrote:
I’ve always said STL is the Miami of the Midwest.


Spoken with the optimism of someone who lives there and the idealism of someone who has never been there. Can't tell which it is!
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Re: Viking Cruises revives Mississippi plans; what it means for MSY/MEM/STL/MSP air service?

Sat Jan 05, 2019 7:56 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
Subtract the Viking passengers who will drive to the cruise ports

Based on what was presented a while back, the majority of Viking pax are expected to be fly-in, with a primary focus on bringing international tourism to America's river system.

Keep in mind that these cities, especially New Orleans, already have multiple river cruises (mostly on paddle-wheelers) and have for decades.
Those are comprised of a majority drive-in market, they cater overwhelmingly to the domestic market, and are expected (by Viking) to continue garnering the majority thereof.



lavalampluva wrote:
These cruises don’t carry enough pax to make that much of a difference. It’ll be a slight blip on the radar.

These were never anticipated to be high-capacity cruises, but rather high-yield:
the kind of traveler who wouldn't be fazed by an longhaul J fare as part of their vacation package.

While that alone wouldn't sustain a new TATL nonstop, it could tip the balance in a gateway that's marginal; again notably STL and/or MEM.
Last edited by LAX772LR on Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Viking Cruises revives Mississippi plans; what it means for MSY/MEM/STL/MSP air service?

Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:03 am

Alias1024 wrote:
If the ships are similar in size to their European river cruises, I can’t see them having a significant impact on air demand. Those ships are around 100 cabins, with perhaps a bit over 200 guests. So a fleet of 6 would have 1,200 guests sailing at any time, split between four ports.

For comparison, last summer Seattle had capacity of 10,100 passengers embarking on Saturdays for 7 day Alaska cruises. That’s the kind of numbers that would generate a real impact on air travel demand. The ships were Norwegian Bliss, Ruby Princess, and Holland America’s Eurodam for anyone curious.

I really like the Viking cruise concept, but as you note, they are tiny. I expect the Mississippi boats to be larger, but we are talking about 2x,/week charter widebodies for each ship.

It takes a major cruise port, such as Seattle, to drive air traffic.

Lightsaber
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Re: Viking Cruises revives Mississippi plans; what it means for MSY/MEM/STL/MSP air service?

Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:06 am

lightsaber wrote:
It takes a major cruise port, such as Seattle, to drive air traffic.

New Orleans is a busier passenger cruise port than Seattle.....

But again, these particular cruises are more focused on high-yielding international fly-in pax; not lower-end domestic drive-in pax, who already have several options for this type of cruise from those cities.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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Re: Viking Cruises revives Mississippi plans; what it means for MSY/MEM/STL/MSP air service?

Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:50 am

Jshank83 wrote:
I’ve always said STL is the Miami of the Midwest.


I now have kombucha on my display panel. Jshank83 wins the Dada statement of the week award.
 
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Re: Viking Cruises revives Mississippi plans; what it means for MSY/MEM/STL/MSP air service?

Sat Jan 05, 2019 9:06 am

Jshank83 wrote:
I’ve always said STL is the Miami of the Midwest.


That's an insult to STL. It's a far nicer city with far friendlier people and much better food than Miami could ever wish for.
 
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Re: Viking Cruises revives Mississippi plans; what it means for MSY/MEM/STL/MSP air service?

Sat Jan 05, 2019 10:27 am

LAX772LR wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
It takes a major cruise port, such as Seattle, to drive air traffic.

New Orleans is a busier passenger cruise port than Seattle.....

But again, these particular cruises are more focused on high-yielding international fly-in pax; not lower-end domestic drive-in pax, who already have several options for this type of cruise from those cities.

Directly from Port of Seattle and Port NOLA website stats, for 2017 the cruise numbers for both were very nearly identical.
 
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Re: Viking Cruises revives Mississippi plans; what it means for MSY/MEM/STL/MSP air service?

Sat Jan 05, 2019 10:53 am

HPRamper wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
It takes a major cruise port, such as Seattle, to drive air traffic.

New Orleans is a busier passenger cruise port than Seattle

Directly from Port of Seattle and Port NOLA website stats, for 2017 the cruise numbers for both were very nearly identical.

that doesn't change what was stated
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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Re: Viking Cruises revives Mississippi plans; what it means for MSY/MEM/STL/MSP air service?

Sat Jan 05, 2019 11:33 am

Revelation wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
I’ve always said STL is the Miami of the Midwest.

Indeed, neither has a non-stop to Asia! :biggrin:

MIA has multiple flights to Asia.... ;)
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
continental004
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Re: Viking Cruises revives Mississippi plans; what it means for MSY/MEM/STL/MSP air service?

Sat Jan 05, 2019 12:14 pm

lol really? TATL because of one cruise company’s new route?

Also no foreigner wants to go to Trump country either.
 
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Re: Viking Cruises revives Mississippi plans; what it means for MSY/MEM/STL/MSP air service?

Sat Jan 05, 2019 12:21 pm

continental004 wrote:
lol really? TATL because of one cruise company’s new route?

Kindly educate yourself with some of the previous posts before bumbling to a conclusion that no one else actually expressed.


continental004 wrote:
Also no foreigner wants to go to Trump country either.

Oh that's right... how could every airline currently adding int'l flights to the south, central, and upper midwest USA, have missed that? :roll:
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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Re: Viking Cruises revives Mississippi plans; what it means for MSY/MEM/STL/MSP air service?

Sat Jan 05, 2019 12:27 pm

Yes and MSY cruise traffic is year round. SEA cruise traffic is highly concentrated.

Aka MSY cruiseport really isnt that busy. It is a favorite home port for an older, smaller Carnival ship.

It is a very cool destination to depart from...twisting down the river. You leave port and 2 hours
later, you can still see the NO skyline
 
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Re: Viking Cruises revives Mississippi plans; what it means for MSY/MEM/STL/MSP air service?

Sat Jan 05, 2019 12:29 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
Yes and MSY cruise traffic is year round. SEA cruise traffic is highly concentrated.

Aka MSY cruiseport really isnt that busy. It is a favorite home port for an older, smaller Carnival ship.

Your own statements contradict themselves.

As stated, the only thing in MSY yearround is a smaller Carnival ship.
The majority of its other traffic and larger Carnival ships are highly seasonal, some even skip an entire season prior to return.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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Re: Viking Cruises revives Mississippi plans; what it means for MSY/MEM/STL/MSP air service?

Sat Jan 05, 2019 12:39 pm

continental004 wrote:
Also no foreigner wants to go to Trump country either.


Please find me the part of America that unanimously voted for Trump. As far as I know, as a journalist who has looked closely at the topic, there isn't one. There is no such place as "trump country" and people should stop saying it.
 
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Re: Viking Cruises revives Mississippi plans; what it means for MSY/MEM/STL/MSP air service?

Sat Jan 05, 2019 1:28 pm

What's the allure of spending that kind of money on a Mississippi cruise? You have none of the unique things that a European cruise gets you as far as culture, landscape,architecture, history, etc.
 
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Re: Viking Cruises revives Mississippi plans; what it means for MSY/MEM/STL/MSP air service?

Sat Jan 05, 2019 2:20 pm

smokeybandit wrote:
What's the allure of spending that kind of money on a Mississippi cruise? You have none of the unique things that a European cruise gets you as far as culture, landscape,architecture, history, etc.
Not for an American, but for a European or Asian, there is. Things that we take for granted are unusual for them--BBQ, Jazz, Graceland, French Quarter, St Louis Arch, Civil War battlefields, Joliet, LaSalle, etc.
 
IPFreely
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Re: Viking Cruises revives Mississippi plans; what it means for MSY/MEM/STL/MSP air service?

Sat Jan 05, 2019 2:25 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
Subtract the Viking passengers who will drive to the cruise ports from the 165K. Divide result by total O&D traffic out of MSP+STL+MEM+MSY. Result = diddly squat.


Was waiting for someone to post this as I read the thread. It's exactly right. Locals who drive to these cruises will make up a big part of the 165k. Even if it's only half, that's 82k by air divided by 4 port cities. The result is some additional business for WN, but not enough to make a difference in any airlines' top or bottom lines.
 
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Re: Viking Cruises revives Mississippi plans; what it means for MSY/MEM/STL/MSP air service?

Sat Jan 05, 2019 2:29 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
I’ve always said STL is the Miami of the Midwest.

Indeed, neither has a non-stop to Asia! :biggrin:

MIA has multiple flights to Asia.... ;)

There's always a killjoy on a.net...

smokeybandit wrote:
What's the allure of spending that kind of money on a Mississippi cruise? You have none of the unique things that a European cruise gets you as far as culture, landscape,architecture, history, etc.

Some people don't go for culture, landscape, architecture, history, etc. Many go because it's a floating hotel where they can hang out with friends and eat and drink and socialize and occasionally get off and explore whatever town it is the ship is at, even if that is Kaskaskia, Illinois. Some might find the ability to avoid international travel is a benefit. Some might find the American South does have some culture, landscape, architecture, history, etc to offer. Some may find they've done all the cruising they care to do in the Caribbean and might like to go some place where they can keep a 4G signal. I can imagine the cruise operators will use themed cruises to draw crowds, just like they do on Carribbean cruises. Be ready for lots of "New Orleans Jazz", "Highway 66 Revisited" etc cruises.

Bottom line is the cruise industry is so huge Viking thinks there is room for this, and they're probably right.
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Re: Viking Cruises revives Mississippi plans; what it means for MSY/MEM/STL/MSP air service?

Sat Jan 05, 2019 2:38 pm

I mean sure, if Viking's doing it, they're done their homework.

Just not enough bang for my buck, especially at their prices.
 
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Re: Viking Cruises revives Mississippi plans; what it means for MSY/MEM/STL/MSP air service?

Sat Jan 05, 2019 2:46 pm

smokeybandit wrote:
I mean sure, if Viking's doing it, they're done their homework.

Just not enough bang for my buck, especially at their prices.

It's not directed at people like you. You can hop in your car and drive the journey. Think of a British person who isn't comfortable driving on the right side of the road and isn't familiar with what parts of town not to go to. Or a German without a command of English. Those are the people who are targeted.
 
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Re: Viking Cruises revives Mississippi plans; what it means for MSY/MEM/STL/MSP air service?

Sat Jan 05, 2019 3:52 pm

continental004 wrote:
lol really? TATL because of one cruise company’s new route?

Also no foreigner wants to go to Trump country either.

There is always one in the group. Good Lord, stop already...... go play politics on another site.

So I assume Viking will build docks for these ships? Don’t see impacting air traffic that much though. I agree with jShank on the comparison. We are the Miami of the Midwest.
 
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Re: Viking Cruises revives Mississippi plans; what it means for MSY/MEM/STL/MSP air service?

Sat Jan 05, 2019 4:07 pm

It’d be interesting if they based one of their Viking Ocean Voyages ships in MSY so customers can tie in both a river cruise and an ocean voyage on the same trip. That’d be fairly unique, I’d say.
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FlyHappy
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Re: Viking Cruises revives Mississippi plans; what it means for MSY/MEM/STL/MSP air service?

Sat Jan 05, 2019 4:11 pm

I think this is a nothing burger in terms of expanding aviation - and yes, I get the premium tourist that Viking successfully captures.
Viking will do fine, because they are good at this sort of thing, and they are good at finding the tourists to fill their expensive and small ships; but I don't see enough concentration.
One thing I can see is that these tourists have no shortage of money and time, and many are likely to include other stops in the US, possibly connecting into these middle states from traditional big US gateways (NYC, LA, etc), so I think there's bound to be significant dilution of the air travel numbers the cruises will draw into their home ports.
 
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Re: Viking Cruises revives Mississippi plans; what it means for MSY/MEM/STL/MSP air service?

Sat Jan 05, 2019 5:31 pm

Revelation wrote:
Some may find they've done all the cruising they care to do in the Caribbean and might like to go some place where they can keep a 4G signal.


They're going to be sorely disappointed when they figure out most of their cruise will be spent circling BFE. If they bring their Hughesnet dish they might be in business. ;)
 
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Re: Viking Cruises revives Mississippi plans; what it means for MSY/MEM/STL/MSP air service?

Sat Jan 05, 2019 5:37 pm

stl07 wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
I’ve always said STL is the Miami of the Midwest.

Indeed, neither has a non-stop to Asia! :biggrin:

Overpriced malls -check
AA crew bases -check
aa eagle base -check
waterfront -check
and they are both on those stupid "hip" city lists
looks like the same city to me ;)


St.Louis is a "hip" city ?!?
 
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Re: Viking Cruises revives Mississippi plans; what it means for MSY/MEM/STL/MSP air service?

Sat Jan 05, 2019 6:31 pm

dfwjim1 wrote:
stl07 wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Indeed, neither has a non-stop to Asia! :biggrin:

Overpriced malls -check
AA crew bases -check
aa eagle base -check
waterfront -check
and they are both on those stupid "hip" city lists
looks like the same city to me ;)


St.Louis is a "hip" city ?!?

Yea that surprised me too. I don't exactly live in STL city, I live in a semi-rural area (STL is the closest airport to me), but I visit the actual "city" a few times a year and I can say it is defiantly a lot more trendy/revitalized than it used to be in years past. Part of it is also the fact that those lists no longer include places like LA, NYC, ect because they are "stereotypical" rather than trendy
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Re: Viking Cruises revives Mississippi plans; what it means for MSY/MEM/STL/MSP air service?

Sat Jan 05, 2019 6:44 pm

SunsetLimited wrote:
It’d be interesting if they based one of their Viking Ocean Voyages ships in MSY so customers can tie in both a river cruise and an ocean voyage on the same trip. That’d be fairly unique, I’d say.

I know many silver setters who would love that option. Just have a shuttle bus to take small groups between.
Winter is coming.
 
FATFlyer
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Re: Viking Cruises revives Mississippi plans; what it means for MSY/MEM/STL/MSP air service?

Sat Jan 05, 2019 7:14 pm

The idea that Viking will bring in many international travelers to the Mississippi may be a stretch.

Most of the travel experts I have read believe Viking wants to target mainly US/Canadian residents who have concerns about long international flights or international travel. They expect only a small portion will be international visitors.

By 2027 Viking plans to carry 100,000 Mississippi passengers on 6 ships carrying 300 passengers. Unless the 200 or 300 daily airline/cruise passengers are all from the same area or connecting hub it will not make much of an impact on new airline routes (domestic or international).
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
777PHX
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Re: Viking Cruises revives Mississippi plans; what it means for MSY/MEM/STL/MSP air service?

Sat Jan 05, 2019 7:23 pm

continental004 wrote:
lol really? TATL because of one cruise company’s new route?

Also no foreigner wants to go to Trump country either.


Yet three of the four biggest airlines in the country are HQ'ed in "Trump country" and several southern cities have some of the quickest growing local economies in the country. Nashville, Raleigh, Orlando, Austin, etc.
 
MO11
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Re: Viking Cruises revives Mississippi plans; what it means for MSY/MEM/STL/MSP air service?

Sat Jan 05, 2019 7:42 pm

777PHX wrote:
continental004 wrote:
lol really? TATL because of one cruise company’s new route?

Also no foreigner wants to go to Trump country either.


Yet three of the four biggest airlines in the country are HQ'ed in "Trump country" and several southern cities have some of the quickest growing local economies in the country. Nashville, Raleigh, Orlando, Austin, etc.



I believe Mr. continental004's definition of "Trump country" refers to all fifty states.
 
Tucker1
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Re: Viking Cruises revives Mississippi plans; what it means for MSY/MEM/STL/MSP air service?

Sat Jan 05, 2019 7:50 pm

Traveling upstream to MSP, they will need to be able to fit through the locks. Not sure of the dimensions of the boats. I guess they'll take that into mind.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Viking Cruises revives Mississippi plans; what it means for MSY/MEM/STL/MSP air service?

Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:34 am

TWA302 wrote:
So I assume Viking will build docks for these ships?

They're taking a multi-prong approach:
proposing to build docks in some locales, and use existing infrastructure for pax cruises (and even casino gambling boats) in others.





FATFlyer wrote:
The idea that Viking will bring in many international travelers to the Mississippi may be a stretch.

Most of the travel experts I have read believe Viking wants to target mainly US/Canadian residents who have concerns about long international flights or international travel.

Not sure who these supposed "travel experts" are, but that contradicts what Viking has been telling Louisiana regulators, and consistently stating to the press.

While there's no doubt they wish to gain a significant foothold among the US/Canadian market; they've been clear that the impetus to offer these services has been the demand from their Euro cruise customer base.

Just one example:
"We have a brand and existing customer base who are river cruisers and our past passengers are asking for the Mississippi River,” said David Simmons of Viking Cruise Lines"

https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/crui ... rward.html
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
FATFlyer
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Re: Viking Cruises revives Mississippi plans; what it means for MSY/MEM/STL/MSP air service?

Sun Jan 06, 2019 1:48 am

LAX772LR wrote:
FATFlyer wrote:
The idea that Viking will bring in many international travelers to the Mississippi may be a stretch.

Most of the travel experts I have read believe Viking wants to target mainly US/Canadian residents who have concerns about long international flights or international travel.

Not sure who these supposed "travel experts" are, but that contradicts what Viking has been telling Louisiana regulators, and consistently stating to the press.

While there's no doubt they wish to gain a significant foothold among the US/Canadian market; they've been clear that the impetus to offer these services has been the demand from their Euro cruise customer base.

Just one example:
"We have a brand and existing customer base who are river cruisers and our past passengers are asking for the Mississippi River,” said David Simmons of Viking Cruise Lines"

https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/crui ... rward.html

While some international passengers of course will cruise the Mississippi, Viking caters predominantly to English speaking US/Canadian customers.

Your quote does not say their customer base in Europe consists of European residents. It simply says they have an "existing customer base" that is asking for Mississippi cruises.

So who is that "existing customer base" mentioned in your quote? The "Euro cruise customer base" you mention? According to Viking CEO Torstein Hagen:
Hagen described his target audience as ".........They speak English. They are 55-plus.".....He's equally clear about people he is not interested in: "We have no need whatsoever to say we want some younger people onboard. If you have teenagers, then you should go somewhere else. We don't encourage [inter]generational travel. We market to North Americans, Brits, Australians. Nothing else. No Turks, no Brazilians. They may sneak on a person from Hong Kong or whatever, but the language is English, and it's the ambience of these types of people [that we strive for]."
http://www.travelweekly.com/River-Cruising/Rolling-on-the-rivers


Or as stated from another source:
To appeal to the American consumer, Viking made its ships non-smoking and in time elected to focus on the English-speaking market predominately from North America.
http://www.cruisebusiness.com/images/magazines/2017_02/CBR-2017-02_36-40.pdf


Former Louisiana Gov Bobby Jindal said in 2015, “When you look at Viking River Cruises’ clientele, these tend to be tourists who are coming from outside of our state.” Outside of the state, not outside the US.
http://www.theadvocate.com/new_orleans/news/business/article_68f2d32d-eb85-58f2-81b9-288ad36efd33.html

The slide showing the growth in numbers of passengers was part of the presentation to the Dubuque City Council in September 2018. You can watch video of Viking's presentation to the Dubuque City Council at this link.
http://cityofdubuque.granicus.com/MediaPlayer.php?view_id=3&clip_id=3109
Starting at about the 7:00 minute mark the presenter discusses the Viking demographics and customers they expect on the Mississippi. At the 7:15 mark he says the Viking market is North American (Canadian and US) passengers.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
WaywardMemphian
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Re: Viking Cruises revives Mississippi plans; what it means for MSY/MEM/STL/MSP air service?

Sun Jan 06, 2019 4:41 am

TWA302 wrote:
continental004 wrote:
lol really? TATL because of one cruise company’s new route?

Also no foreigner wants to go to Trump country either.

There is always one in the group. Good Lord, stop already...... go play politics on another site.

So I assume Viking will build docks for these ships? Don’t see impacting air traffic that much though. I agree with jShank on the comparison. We are the Miami of the Midwest.


Memphis said it would expand Beale Street Landing with another docking platform.
Just google image search Beale Street Landing. Fantastic facility that ran over budget and started at a time when there were 0 cruising on the River due to the Great Recession.

I overstates the international rourism mumbers for Memphis, I thought I reqd it was 2 million, it's not. There is little overall numbers to see how the BA flight in Nashville has impacted the numbers but most expect it to increase.

Anyhoo, there's this:

More than 100,000 people visited Memphis from the UK in 2017, making it a significant and growing source of international visitors, according to research shared by the Memphis Convention and Visitors Bureau

Now if it is growing and someone sent a very economic 200 seater to Memphis from the UK on a 2x weekly basis for only half the year, full planes would be just over 10,000 passengers so that is around 10 percent of just the 2017 numbers. Many of the major Elvis events however are in off season like Feburary and yet they draw big numbers. The idea of such a flight isn't that far fetched.

The river cruise industry has a shortage of boats. They have scoured the US for boats to convert so they can offer more cruises. Viking clearly sees the potential of the market. It will be interesting to watch.

Memphis has over 5 billion in downtown projects either underway or in planning.
 
WaywardMemphian
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Re: Viking Cruises revives Mississippi plans; what it means for MSY/MEM/STL/MSP air service?

Sun Jan 06, 2019 4:49 am

lightsaber wrote:
Alias1024 wrote:
If the ships are similar in size to their European river cruises, I can’t see them having a significant impact on air demand. Those ships are around 100 cabins, with perhaps a bit over 200 guests. So a fleet of 6 would have 1,200 guests sailing at any time, split between four ports.

For comparison, last summer Seattle had capacity of 10,100 passengers embarking on Saturdays for 7 day Alaska cruises. That’s the kind of numbers that would generate a real impact on air travel demand. The ships were Norwegian Bliss, Ruby Princess, and Holland America’s Eurodam for anyone curious.

I really like the Viking cruise concept, but as you note, they are tiny. I expect the Mississippi boats to be larger, but we are talking about 2x,/week charter widebodies for each ship.

It takes a major cruise port, such as Seattle, to drive air traffic.

Lightsaber


Viking told Memphis the first time around that they would dock two boats at a time in Memphis. If the Lower Mississippi boat have 400 passengers, that is 800 at a time. I think they said two night stays as well. I figure, based on what's offered by others the NO-MEM-NO roundtrips will be far fewer than the one ways between the two. Kinda shocked they are going to shun the Ohio, that one offers Bourbon tour opportunities and some Bluegrass as well. The existing operators seem favor those over upper Mississippi just by the amount of offerings.
 
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Re: Viking Cruises revives Mississippi plans; what it means for MSY/MEM/STL/MSP air service?

Sun Jan 06, 2019 4:55 am

LAX772LR wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
It takes a major cruise port, such as Seattle, to drive air traffic.

New Orleans is a busier passenger cruise port than Seattle.....

But again, these particular cruises are more focused on high-yielding international fly-in pax; not lower-end domestic drive-in pax, who already have several options for this type of cruise from those cities.


Disney is even offering cruises out of NO now.

If anyone has priced Cruises on the Mississippi, I wouldn't call it lower end. The crew has to American, boats American registered, ect. This ain't Carnival One Ri er Cruise Operator offers Colombia River cruises as well

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