a350lover
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Ryanair "threatens" with the closure of bases in the Canaries

Sat Jan 05, 2019 10:21 pm

According to internal info from Ryanair, if by the 18th of January no agreement is signed with the cabin crews in Spain:

"TFS and LPA bases will close on 1st of March 2019".

Ryanair does not mention anything about Lanzarote (ACE), despite having a base there too.

In case the agreement is signed, Ryanair "will absorb inefficiency of the Canary bases".

Hard to believe bases in the Canaries underperform. TFS counts with 6 airplanes at the moment, LPA has 4. ACE I believe has 3.

No link provided as info comes from internal source.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Ryanair "threatens" with the closure of bases in the Canaries

Sat Jan 05, 2019 11:10 pm

I never understand the posts about airliners being “based” at TFS or LPA in this example. Do EU airlines “base” aircraft at these airports like an Air Force does? Do the 6 planes at TFS all come back everyday or every few days for maintenance there. In the US, the planes just go around the system and stop wherever their last flight of the day ends. There only crew bases, no aircraft bases.

GF
 
pdp
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Re: Ryanair "threatens" with the closure of bases in the Canaries

Sat Jan 05, 2019 11:44 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
I never understand the posts about airliners being “based” at TFS or LPA in this example. Do EU airlines “base” aircraft at these airports like an Air Force does? Do the 6 planes at TFS all come back everyday or every few days for maintenance there. In the US, the planes just go around the system and stop wherever their last flight of the day ends. There only crew bases, no aircraft bases.

GF


Generally, airlines in Europe operate an out-and-back system. Aircraft A will fly from A to B, and back to A several times a day. Even pan European airlines like FR do this as they often operate to secondary airports with no line maintenance facilities.
 
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JannEejit
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Re: Ryanair "threatens" with the closure of bases in the Canaries

Sat Jan 05, 2019 11:59 pm

Ryanair earlier in 2018, threatened this to GLA in a row with the UK government over Air Passenger Duty. Whilst most of the routes have indeed gone over winter and no 'based' aircraft any more. Several of the supposedly gone routes will return in 2019. I think Ryanair's policy of threat and retreat doesn't hold as much water as it perhaps used to ?
 
Flaps
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Re: Ryanair "threatens" with the closure of bases in the Canaries

Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:06 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
I never understand the posts about airliners being “based” at TFS or LPA in this example. Do EU airlines “base” aircraft at these airports like an Air Force does? Do the 6 planes at TFS all come back everyday or every few days for maintenance there. In the US, the planes just go around the system and stop wherever their last flight of the day ends. There only crew bases, no aircraft bases.

GF


That is true for most US airlines. G4 however operates in the same manner as the European ULCC's. Specific aircraft are based at a given base and return there each night. Most general maintenance is performed at the bases although heavy MX is limited to large bases and outsourced contractors depending on the situations. A G4 base has specific aircraft, pilots, flight attendants, management and maintenance staff based there. This is the same way that many European ULCC's operate. I can't speak for all of them of course but FR operates in a very similar fashion to the G4 example above.
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: Ryanair "threatens" with the closure of bases in the Canaries

Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:43 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
I never understand the posts about airliners being “based” at TFS or LPA in this example. Do EU airlines “base” aircraft at these airports like an Air Force does? Do the 6 planes at TFS all come back everyday or every few days for maintenance there. In the US, the planes just go around the system and stop wherever their last flight of the day ends. There only crew bases, no aircraft bases.

GF


They're not 'bassd' exclusivsly, in as much as aircraft do cycle out for maintenance and are replaced with a different frame, but each aircraft will spend weeks or months operating out-and-back to one base. This has inherent cost savings as each aircraft starts and ends each day at the base and therefore doesn't overnight, saving on crew costs. For a leisure oriented airline which is exlusively O&D focussed and doesn't run connecting banks this is a very manageable way to run your operation, but wouldn't work for networks as complex as the US majors.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
BrianDromey
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Re: Ryanair "threatens" with the closure of bases in the Canaries

Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:52 am

Ryanair don’t base a specific aircraft at one airport, the aircraft do move around the system. Aircraft tend to stay at a specific airport for a few weeks before being swapped for another. This is usually done for maintenance and usually the swop is at a major maintenance base such as Dublin, Stansted, Prestwick, Bergamo - but I’m sure there are others too.

RyanairGuru wrote:
For a leisure oriented airline which is exlusively O&D focussed and doesn't run connecting banks this is a very manageable way to run your operation, but wouldn't work for networks as complex as the US majors.

The shorter stage lengths in Europe make the “out and back” 6/8 sectors days easier to schedule too. My impression of the US networks is that 4/5 sectors would be more common and the aircraft would, more often than not, end the day at a different airport to where it started.
 
OSL777FLYER
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Re: Ryanair "threatens" with the closure of bases in the Canaries

Sun Jan 06, 2019 1:21 am

I do not know where in Europe FR has all their maintenance bases. A "base" for FR and other ULCC carriers for that matter is more about the crews. They return home every night so that they never stay out. Cuts costs on hotel, transfer etc.

I know Germanwings/Eurowings used to do this in the beginning, but I am not sure if they're still able to due to their large size now.

Also, by having several bases, ULCC's can compete with the other carriers e.g. London to Berlin, A ULCC having bases at both can then operate both early morning and late evening flights in both directions. A good way to compete with the "legacy" carriers.

Now with regard to FR's threat of shutting some bases down. Probably due to someone wanting union rights or some other form of "benefits" with then FR's standard reply being "If so, we'll shut it down, and then they tell the crew that they can "happily apply" to work at another base.

This was the main reason for FR shutting down operations at Oslo/Rygge. They lost a court settlement in which two Italian cabin crew members were unjustly fired from their job. FR were forced to pay and that was it. No more base in Norway.
 
L410Turbolet
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Re: Ryanair "threatens" with the closure of bases in the Canaries

Sun Jan 06, 2019 1:28 am

OSL777FLYER wrote:
FR were forced to pay and that was it. No more base in Norway.

With the pace of O'Leary's hysterical overreactions to such cases, they will soon run out of base options.
 
Waterbomber
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Re: Ryanair "threatens" with the closure of bases in the Canaries

Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:25 am

I think that FR has a hard time making these long flights work out financially. Some of them edge on the 5 hours flight time, putting FR in a tight spot in terms of yield management.
So they are probably routes that can be axed regardless of the outcomes of labor conflicts.
This was the case for EIN where the base closure was more a consequence of poor yields and increasing costs rather than the sole labor conflicts.
 
WPvsMW
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Re: Ryanair "threatens" with the closure of bases in the Canaries

Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:32 am

VY would be gleeful if FR curtailed ops in the Canaries. Pax would be thankful for FR's "higher" standard of service after a VY experience.
 
bennett123
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Re: Ryanair "threatens" with the closure of bases in the Canaries

Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:38 am

I flew from BHX to TFS with Jet2 on the 3rd.

If MOL does not want to fly here, there are perfectly good alternatives.
 
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intrance
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Re: Ryanair "threatens" with the closure of bases in the Canaries

Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:40 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
I never understand the posts about airliners being “based” at TFS or LPA in this example. Do EU airlines “base” aircraft at these airports like an Air Force does? Do the 6 planes at TFS all come back everyday or every few days for maintenance there. In the US, the planes just go around the system and stop wherever their last flight of the day ends. There only crew bases, no aircraft bases.

GF
You shouldn't look at it as the specific planes will come back every day. More like, there is usually a fixed number of planes assigned to that airport to operate the routes flown from/to there, and as such the airline has 6 planes 'based' there. The aircraft are obviously still interchangeable for maintenance or operational needs. Sometimes you'll have a different aircraft each day, sometimes they might stick around a while, all depended on the needs of the operation.
 
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reidar76
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Re: Ryanair "threatens" with the closure of bases in the Canaries

Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:48 am

Waterbomber wrote:
I think that FR has a hard time making these long flights work out financially.


I reckon that flights to/from the Canary Islands, with aircraft based on the islands, are not as popular due to departure and arrival times. Ref. in/out model. Aircraft based there departs early in the morning, thus ruining your last vacation day. Arrivals are late in the evening.

Aircraft utilization might also be lower as there ain't any "short hops" to combine with a in/out flight to central or Northern Europe.
 
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Re: Ryanair "threatens" with the closure of bases in the Canaries

Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:58 am

Waterbomber wrote:
I think that FR has a hard time making these long flights work out financially. Some of them edge on the 5 hours flight time, putting FR in a tight spot in terms of yield management.


FR in Canarias is not only about "those long flights". It is not Eilat or Aqaba.

Canarias-Mainland Spain is a massive market and Ryanair is a major player. And those are 2-3 hours flights, comparable to many Spain-Central Europe flights.

MAD-ACE is 12xw, MAD-LPA is 10xw, and MAD-TFS/TFN/FUE are 7xw each. So 43xw on Ryanair from MAD.

Even a "small" airport like SCQ will be (only on Ryanair, add to that VY, YW and UX) in S19 daily to LPA, 6xweekly to TFS and 4xweekly to ACE. So that is 17xweekly on SCQ-Canarias in Ryanair. Probably more flights that many large European airports see on FR to Canarias.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Ryanair "threatens" with the closure of bases in the Canaries

Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:10 am

OSL777FLYER wrote:
This was the main reason for FR shutting down operations at Oslo/Rygge. They lost a court settlement in which two Italian cabin crew members were unjustly fired from their job. FR were forced to pay and that was it. No more base in Norway.


Same thing happened in the Netherlands with the Eindhoven base. Ryanair does still fly to Eindhoven, but doesn't have a base there anymore. It's a destination served from other bases.

Ryanair always looks carefully from which end of the line a route can be operated the cheapest. Spain so far always has been a relatively cheap country, so most routes to or from Spain were operated with aircraft based there. Now Spain is becoming more expensive, so for several routes this will mean a turning point. It might be cheaper to operate them from the other end.

They even have some flights in a W-pattern, so let's say an aircraft is based in Poland. It's first flight of the day takes it to London, then to Spain, back to London and ultimately back to Poland. That way they can operate the London - Spain route on a Polish crew which is cheaper than a British or Spanish crew.
 
a350lover
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Re: Ryanair "threatens" with the closure of bases in the Canaries

Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:33 am

Waterbomber wrote:
I think that FR has a hard time making these long flights work out financially. Some of them edge on the 5 hours flight time, putting FR in a tight spot in terms of yield management.
So they are probably routes that can be axed regardless of the outcomes of labor conflicts.
This was the case for EIN where the base closure was more a consequence of poor yields and increasing costs rather than the sole labor conflicts.


I can see that aircraft utilization for the Canary bases must report less sectors per day/month for obvious reasons. However, by spending more time in the air and less handling fees for airport utilization, they should also have lower costs. While many FR aircrafts fly between 6 to 8 sectors per day, in the Canaries the maximum is 4.

Commissions from sales on board must be good ones I bet. Sectors like Canaries-UK or Canaries-Scandinavia can easily see sales of around 3000€ per flight.

I believe this may also have to do with union members of those bases with very tough positions negotiating. I bet most of them must have a good seniority since those bases have been part of the network for quite a few years. By "threatening" with the closure of those bases, they might force the unions to accept in part of the terms of the agreement.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Ryanair "threatens" with the closure of bases in the Canaries

Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:41 am

bennett123 wrote:
If MOL does not want to fly here, there are perfectly good alternatives.


I think Ryanair will continue to fly there even if they close those bases. They'll just serve them from the other end, as a destination instead of a base. That's the way they continue to serve Eindhoven as well now that they closed their base there.
 
a350lover
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Re: Ryanair "threatens" with the closure of bases in the Canaries

Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:45 am

PatrickZ80 wrote:

They even have some flights in a W-pattern, so let's say an aircraft is based in Poland. It's first flight of the day takes it to London, then to Spain, back to London and ultimately back to Poland. That way they can operate the London - Spain route on a Polish crew which is cheaper than a British or Spanish crew.


Very true. I believe it happens the same with flights CPH-STN, which are currently operated on the following pattern: Kaunas-Copenhaguen-Stansted-Copenhaguen-Kaunas. This might work for a good number of routings, but at some point, like others said, Ryanair is gonna have issues with the costs of every single base if they are that picky. In an ideal world at the eyes of Ryanair, they could operate the whole network via bases in Lithuania, Poland or the Ukraine. This is not realistic and at some point those countries will increase wages and loose "efficiency" for Ryanair.

I have the feeling that the "always getting better" program must have increased costs, and might not be reporting the expected revenues. Thus, Ryanair again puts the crews in the middle of the business model as a way to increase competition.
 
a350lover
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Re: Ryanair "threatens" with the closure of bases in the Canaries

Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:46 am

PatrickZ80 wrote:
bennett123 wrote:
If MOL does not want to fly here, there are perfectly good alternatives.


I think Ryanair will continue to fly there even if they close those bases. They'll just serve them from the other end, as a destination instead of a base. That's the way they continue to serve Eindhoven as well now that they closed their base there.


Has FR decreased operations at Eindhoven at all? It'd be surprising to see that they are able to operate 100% of the flights they had with the base there just from other airports.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Ryanair "threatens" with the closure of bases in the Canaries

Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:51 am

a350lover wrote:
Has FR decreased operations at Eindhoven at all? It'd be surprising to see that they are able to operate 100% of the flights they had with the base there just from other airports.


I believe they scrapped 2 or 3 routes and reduced frequency on some others, but by far most routes are still in service. They did return a number of slots, which allowed Wizzair and Transavia to expand at Eindhoven and Pobeda to move in. Ryanair did shuffle their time schedule at Eindhoven, meaning that flights are operated at different times or weekdays than they were before.
 
rutankrd
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Re: Ryanair "threatens" with the closure of bases in the Canaries

Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:57 am

From a utilisation point of view those Canaria operations do put strain on the number of sectors achievable per frame. That certainly means the ratios of Costs vis Revenue are likely somewhat higher than average and that Ryanair normally expect to achieve.

Queue they need to increase fares to achieve yield or heavily sell ancillaries to actually make money via their business models.

There ia plenty of competition from the the UK and EU down to the major Canary Isles and it’s very much a market that remains predominantly in the hands of the traditional inclusive tour businesses.

Indeed Ryanair are chasing the same self organising market including the villa and timeshare owners that are financially able to use the likes of British Airways Luftansa and SAS .
 
mchei
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Re: Ryanair "threatens" with the closure of bases in the Canaries

Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:03 am

Ryanair had a base in Bremen, BRE, Germany, as well. After 11 years of operations, they recently closed it down. According to the local media, this base employed 90 people.

Whether you like it or not, Ryanair helped to make Bremen more attractive as a tourist destination, even though many just stayed overnight. The airport made many concessions and a terminal was built for Ryanair. Not a very nice one, though, but it did the job. Ryanair knew that they could easily put pressure on the airport and it seems they had made use of this during the past years.

Bremen will suffer from this loss and the number of passengers will further drop, I guess. WizzAir is going to start operations for a few flights in summer and Germania is pretty stable but both will not easily compensate the Ryanair loss.

So, for small regional airports Ryanair does have a good position when “threatening” to move staff and aircrafts to another spot.

Edit - a German newspaper article of local media in German language
https://www.weser-kurier.de/bremen/brem ... 81263.html
F70-F100-E145-E170-E190-319-320-321-735–736-737-738-752-763–742-744-333-343-ATR72-Metroliner-Saab2000-Lockheed Electra-C172-C182-C182RG-MD11
 
caaardiff
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Re: Ryanair "threatens" with the closure of bases in the Canaries

Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:05 am

PatrickZ80 wrote:
bennett123 wrote:
If MOL does not want to fly here, there are perfectly good alternatives.


I think Ryanair will continue to fly there even if they close those bases. They'll just serve them from the other end, as a destination instead of a base. That's the way they continue to serve Eindhoven as well now that they closed their base there.


FR fly to a lot of Airports from TFS. I'd be surprised if they were all bases which could be operated in reverse. CWL being one of those, that now has 4 routes from there with no based aircraft.

a350lover wrote:

I can see that aircraft utilization for the Canary bases must report less sectors per day/month for obvious reasons. However, by spending more time in the air and less handling fees for airport utilization, they should also have lower costs. While many FR aircrafts fly between 6 to 8 sectors per day, in the Canaries the maximum is 4.

Commissions from sales on board must be good ones I bet. Sectors like Canaries-UK or Canaries-Scandinavia can easily see sales of around 3000€ per flight.

I believe this may also have to do with union members of those bases with very tough positions negotiating. I bet most of them must have a good seniority since those bases have been part of the network for quite a few years. By "threatening" with the closure of those bases, they might force the unions to accept in part of the terms of the agreement.


I would've thought that Canaries routes, being a holiday destination, would also attract more yield from ancillary revenue like baggage and prebooked seats, even excess baggage.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Ryanair "threatens" with the closure of bases in the Canaries

Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:08 am

mchei wrote:
Ryanair had a base in Bremen, BRE, Germany, as well. After 11 years of operations, they recently closed it down. According to the local media, this base employed 90 people.

Whether you like it or not, Ryanair helped to make Bremen more attractive as a tourist destination, even though many just stayed overnight. The airport made many concessions and a terminal was built for Ryanair. Not a very nice one, though, but it did the job. Ryanair knew that they could easily put pressure on the airport and it seems they had made use of this during the past years.

Bremen will suffer from this loss and the number of passengers will further drop, I guess. WizzAir is going to start operations for a few flights in summer and Germania is pretty stable but both will not easily compensate the Ryanair loss.

So, for small regional airports Ryanair does have a good position when “threatening” to move staff and aircrafts to another spot.

Edit - a German newspaper article of local media in German language
https://www.weser-kurier.de/bremen/brem ... 81263.html


But just like Eindhoven, Ryanair continues to serve Bremen. Just no longer as a base but as a destination instead. Only it seems like the number of routes cut at Bremen is higher than at Eindhoven. Both bases were closed at the same time.
 
Draken21fx
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Re: Ryanair "threatens" with the closure of bases in the Canaries

Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:10 am

As it has been correctly mentioned the Canary Island bases are not only for flights to the UK or Northern Europe. There are definitely shorter sectors more "suited" to Ryanair's needs.

Also I do not think the utilisation model of European LCC can be the same as in the US cause in the example of the US we are talking about a federal state, in Europe we are talking about 30+ different countries with different languages and labour laws. Even some of them are not part of the EU so you have added complications there.

Lastly I suspect it is the usual scare tactic that Mr O'Leary loves, problem for him is that more and more airports simply don't comply so Ryanair has to eventually pull out. It would be interested to see what is their plane utilisation % is the past 5 years but I don't think we can find that info anywhere.
Last edited by Draken21fx on Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Ryanair "threatens" with the closure of bases in the Canaries

Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:10 am

caaardiff wrote:
FR fly to a lot of Airports from TFS. I'd be surprised if they were all bases which could be operated in reverse. CWL being one of those, that now has 4 routes from there with no based aircraft.


Those are often flown in a W-pattern. The plane flies A-B-C-B-A, where only A is a base. B and C are both destinations.
 
rutankrd
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Re: Ryanair "threatens" with the closure of bases in the Canaries

Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:17 am

Today’s utilisation


EI-GDE Skavska return that’s it for this frame

EI-EBN Madrid and back twice

EI-ENN Newcastle and back

EI-GDR Oporto and back then another longer leg this afternoon

This is quite typical at the moment

Not exactly what you expect of a flexible fares and low cost busines model is it ?
 
TC957
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Re: Ryanair "threatens" with the closure of bases in the Canaries

Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:19 am

TFS & LPA should show FR the door and slam it shut after they've left. Just more loud-mouthed bullying tactics typical of how they go about their business dealing with airports.
 
rutankrd
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Re: Ryanair "threatens" with the closure of bases in the Canaries

Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:20 am

PatrickZ80 wrote:
caaardiff wrote:
FR fly to a lot of Airports from TFS. I'd be surprised if they were all bases which could be operated in reverse. CWL being one of those, that now has 4 routes from there with no based aircraft.


Those are often flown in a W-pattern. The plane flies A-B-C-B-A, where only A is a base. B and C are both destinations.


Patrick right now it’s more the crews that W than the planes !

Ryanair East European crews in particular routinely fly into Stansted and then operate shorter sectors such as Nante Eindhoven and others during the day then return to their home country in the evening .
 
caaardiff
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Re: Ryanair "threatens" with the closure of bases in the Canaries

Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:30 am

PatrickZ80 wrote:
caaardiff wrote:
FR fly to a lot of Airports from TFS. I'd be surprised if they were all bases which could be operated in reverse. CWL being one of those, that now has 4 routes from there with no based aircraft.


Those are often flown in a W-pattern. The plane flies A-B-C-B-A, where only A is a base. B and C are both destinations.


Being specific to the Canaries routes, i'd be very surprised if that can be done given the length of flight. E.G MAD-TFS-UK-TFS-MAD. You're talking 2x 4hour flights and 2x 2 hour flights, add on turnaround time and report time, you're looking at a 15+ hour day with 4 sectors.
 
a350lover
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Re: Ryanair "threatens" with the closure of bases in the Canaries

Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:37 am

caaardiff wrote:

Being specific to the Canaries routes, i'd be very surprised if that can be done given the length of flight. E.G MAD-TFS-UK-TFS-MAD. You're talking 2x 4hour flights and 2x 2 hour flights, add on turnaround time and report time, you're looking at a 15+ hour day with 4 sectors.


Impossible. Maximum duty hours (by FTL) is 12 hours in general, with some exceptions depending on the number of sectors, hour of the day, etc. Hard to imagine any W suitable for Canaries-Spain mainland. Not even with crews from Morocco they could do it. If Ryanair eventually closed bases in TFS and LPA, routes to Spain could only be flown from those airports with bases in Spain (SCQ, MAD, BCN, VLC, ALC, SVQ, etc...). Same with Europe, if there is a base, then they could fly Canaries and back. All the rest should be dropped.

W patters has also the risk of eventualities in the middle of the pattern leaving crews and planes stranded with no possibility of "stand-by crews".

I have seen W patters done by Vueling crews based in the Canaries, namely TFN-SVQ-VLC-SVQ-TFN. The normal pattern though it's just 2 sectors.
 
a350lover
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Re: Ryanair "threatens" with the closure of bases in the Canaries

Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:39 am

Does anyone know if Ibiza base was effectively shut down? I never figured out if IBZ was a seasonal base (does FR do that anywhere else?) or was a year-round operation with crews there.

GRO sees also low aircraft utilization with heavy seasonality. SCQ I believe is the only Spanish base with a single aircraft, although it's frequently used heavily through the day.
 
greg85
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Re: Ryanair "threatens" with the closure of bases in the Canaries

Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:56 am

JannEejit wrote:
Ryanair earlier in 2018, threatened this to GLA in a row with the UK government over Air Passenger Duty. Whilst most of the routes have indeed gone over winter and no 'based' aircraft any more. Several of the supposedly gone routes will return in 2019. I think Ryanair's policy of threat and retreat doesn't hold as much water as it perhaps used to ?



No. They really did close GLA. It’s no longer a base. The people who were based there have had to move or leave, causing disruption to their lives. This is what Ryanair has threatened in the Canaries. I foresee a period of disruption at Ryanair, with reduced reliability delivering their flying program.
 
rutankrd
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Re: Ryanair "threatens" with the closure of bases in the Canaries

Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:08 am

Ibiza base is one aircraft operating hops to Madrid Barcelona Malaga and Sevilla . Valencia is covered by an away crew and frame through to April/May .

Nothing north to the UK Germany or Scandinavia

In fact to/from the UK only BA Cityflyer serves the UK to/from LCY through winter with Eurowings to/from Düsseldorf and Transavia to/from Amsterdam.
 
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OA260
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Re: Ryanair "threatens" with the closure of bases in the Canaries

Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:45 am

a350lover wrote:

Commissions from sales on board must be good ones I bet. Sectors like Canaries-UK or Canaries-Scandinavia can easily see sales of around 3000€ per flight.
.


Correct just like most other carriers EI TCX LS the onboard sales of duty free and food, drink is a cash cow.
 
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Re: Ryanair "threatens" with the closure of bases in the Canaries

Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:16 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
Only it seems like the number of routes cut at Bremen is higher than at Eindhoven. Both bases were closed at the same time.

Some old routes like Riga-Bremen for example got axed , but holiday routes like Faro were increased by one rotation during summer, despite serving the route also from HAM. Winter seems to be a lot less though. Never understood the Ryanair route management. They seem to have lost track and I noticed that Wizz lately developed some interesting routes which Ryanair not had on the radar.
B-717/722/737-200/300/400/500/600/700/800/900/B-747-100/200/400/SP/8i/B-752/3/B-762/3/4/B-772/LR/300ER/B-787-8/-9/DC-10-10/30/L1011-1/500/MD81/82/83/90/A-319/320/321/AB6/312/313/332/333/342/343/346/359/388/TU154/IL18/ATR42/72/DH4/DH3/E145/E170/190/CR2/7/9
 
rutankrd
Posts: 3025
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2003 6:08 am

Re: Ryanair "threatens" with the closure of bases in the Canariesil

Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:51 pm

Delta777 it’s ALL about profit and moving aircraft round the estate to suit demand

Ryanair’s estate now encompasses three sub divisions in addition the what might be called mainline.

Ryanair Sun in Poland, Laudamotion in Germany and Austria ( and Southend if rummers are to believed; The 32x has better short field performance than the core 738 fleets) and the re-activated Ryanair UK due to Impending UK departure from EU membership.

Flights to the sun can earn much more in ancillary sales than worker shuttles such as Poland to Bremen and Ryanair views the entire network mix constantly to ensure maximum yield potentials are attained.

There are more ways to generate yield than simply wider seats, inclusive sandwiches news papers and lounge access plus a bit of bribery in prepaid mileage “awards”

Ryanair and EasyJet are masters of up selling of ancillaries combined with magical fare maximisation and manipulation via complex algorithms.
 
Waterbomber
Posts: 849
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2016 11:51 am

Re: Ryanair "threatens" with the closure of bases in the Canariesil

Sun Jan 06, 2019 1:34 pm

rutankrd wrote:
Delta777 it’s ALL about profit and moving aircraft round the estate to suit demand

Ryanair’s estate now encompasses three sub divisions in addition the what might be called mainline.

Ryanair Sun in Poland, Laudamotion in Germany and Austria ( and Southend if rummers are to believed; The 32x has better short field performance than the core 738 fleets) and the re-activated Ryanair UK due to Impending UK departure from EU membership.

Flights to the sun can earn much more in ancillary sales than worker shuttles such as Poland to Bremen and Ryanair views the entire network mix constantly to ensure maximum yield potentials are attained.

There are more ways to generate yield than simply wider seats, inclusive sandwiches news papers and lounge access plus a bit of bribery in prepaid mileage “awards”

Ryanair and EasyJet are masters of up selling of ancillaries combined with magical fare maximisation and manipulation via complex algorithms.


Yes, FR used to be good.
But I feel that their business model is being challenged and fares have increased while legacy competitors have decreased fares by offering less services while offering better schedules.

With increasing labor costs, industrial actions, constant tweaks to the product, flipping between primary and secundary airports, etc... The Ryanair that used to move in one direction seems to be losing its way. Short-term, their revenues rose because they appealed to a higher yielding customer base. But old Ryanair habits came back and the never-ending sales announcements are now once again present and supplemented by even more restrictive baggage and online check-in policies.
At the same time, people are starting to compare more and more and this is dangerous for their business model.
 
rutankrd
Posts: 3025
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2003 6:08 am

Re: Ryanair "threatens" with the closure of bases in the Canariesil

Sun Jan 06, 2019 1:46 pm

Waterbomber wrote:
rutankrd wrote:
Delta777 it’s ALL about profit and moving aircraft round the estate to suit demand

Ryanair’s estate now encompasses three sub divisions in addition the what might be called mainline.

Ryanair Sun in Poland, Laudamotion in Germany and Austria ( and Southend if rummers are to believed; The 32x has better short field performance than the core 738 fleets) and the re-activated Ryanair UK due to Impending UK departure from EU membership.

Flights to the sun can earn much more in ancillary sales than worker shuttles such as Poland to Bremen and Ryanair views the entire network mix constantly to ensure maximum yield potentials are attained.

There are more ways to generate yield than simply wider seats, inclusive sandwiches news papers and lounge access plus a bit of bribery in prepaid mileage “awards”

Ryanair and EasyJet are masters of up selling of ancillaries combined with magical fare maximisation and manipulation via complex algorithms.




With increasing labor costs, industrial actions, constant tweaks to the product, flipping between primary and secundary airports, etc... The Ryanair that used to move in one direction seems to be losing its way. Short-term, their revenues rose because they appealed to a higher yielding customer base. But old Ryanair habits came back and the never-ending sales announcements are now once again present and supplemented by even more restrictive baggage and online check-in policies.
At the same time, people are starting to compare more and more and this is dangerous for their business model.


Not disputed I personally don’t much like the flexible fares models myself and certainly think debundling has gone way too far !

Equally I don’t like the legacy business fares and bribery model at x2 and upto x5 basis point fares either .

Both equally rip off the consumer through one does a good job in convincing joe public of value for money with those little extras and a potential of a future bung !
 
leghorn
Posts: 944
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:13 am

Re: Ryanair "threatens" with the closure of bases in the Canariesil

Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:34 pm

rutankrd wrote:
Waterbomber wrote:
rutankrd wrote:
Delta777 it’s ALL about profit and moving aircraft round the estate to suit demand

Ryanair’s estate now encompasses three sub divisions in addition the what might be called mainline.

Ryanair Sun in Poland, Laudamotion in Germany and Austria ( and Southend if rummers are to believed; The 32x has better short field performance than the core 738 fleets) and the re-activated Ryanair UK due to Impending UK departure from EU membership.

Flights to the sun can earn much more in ancillary sales than worker shuttles such as Poland to Bremen and Ryanair views the entire network mix constantly to ensure maximum yield potentials are attained.

There are more ways to generate yield than simply wider seats, inclusive sandwiches news papers and lounge access plus a bit of bribery in prepaid mileage “awards”

Ryanair and EasyJet are masters of up selling of ancillaries combined with magical fare maximisation and manipulation via complex algorithms.


With increasing labor costs, industrial actions, constant tweaks to the product, flipping between primary and secundary airports, etc... The Ryanair that used to move in one direction seems to be losing its way. Short-term, their revenues rose because they appealed to a higher yielding customer base. But old Ryanair habits came back and the never-ending sales announcements are now once again present and supplemented by even more restrictive baggage and online check-in policies.
At the same time, people are starting to compare more and more and this is dangerous for their business model.


Not disputed I personally don’t much like the flexible fares models myself and certainly think debundling has gone way too far !

Equally I don’t like the legacy business fares and bribery model at x2 and upto x5 basis point fares either .

Both equally rip off the consumer through one does a good job in convincing joe public of value for money with those little extras and a potential of a future bung !


I dispute it because it is simply not true. I was able to get a Ryanair flight at 4 hours notice for considerably less than Aer Lingus over Christmas with the same carry-on baggage allowance as the "Legacy Carrier" leaving and arriving at the same airport at the same time(minutes apart).
As for booking well in advance Ryanair are de facto the best bar none with regard to low prices. If you have a wheelie case then just add €6 to the price. For weekend trips I don't need a wheelie case.

Nobody can come within an asses roar of their cost base, not Wizz, not Easyjet, not Wow, not anyone.
Ryanair were, are and will continue to be the least expensive way of flying from point A to point B in Europe and the traveling public have much to be thankful for.

I will continue to check the offerings of competitor airlines and where it makes sense for me to pay a premium for a competitors product I will but as my objective is to get from A to B and not to have my ego massaged I know I will continue to predominantly do business with Ryanair. Those with narcissistic personality disorders can fly with other carriers who would have you believe they "really care" about you rather than their bottom line.
It was with pleasure that I read that Ryanair surpassed Lufthansa as having carried the most passengers this year. Down with the price-gougers.
I'm heading out now. Don't know when I'll be back.
 
L410Turbolet
Posts: 6088
Joined: Wed May 05, 2004 9:12 am

Re: Ryanair "threatens" with the closure of bases in the Canaries

Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:39 pm

Another FR fanboy?
 
FlapsOne
Posts: 156
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2019 8:13 pm

Re: Ryanair "threatens" with the closure of bases in the Canaries

Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:49 pm

They also threatened to ‘pivot away’ from the UK in the event of a brexit vote. They’ve done nothing but expand and open new bases. The GLA ‘closure’ was merely moving an aircraft to EDI. SEN is a new base and other UK bases have expanded. Ryanair threaten hard when things don’t go their way but don’t always carry out the threats when things don’t go their way.
 
AIRT0M
Posts: 80
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2018 8:54 am

Re: Ryanair "threatens" with the closure of bases in the Canariesil

Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:56 pm

leghorn wrote:
It was with pleasure that I read that Ryanair surpassed Lufthansa as having carried the most passengers this year.



Not true. Lufthansa actually surpassed Ryanair again in 2018.

https://www.aero.de/news-30634/Ryanair- ... rueck.html
 
User avatar
PatrickZ80
Posts: 3944
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:33 am

Re: Ryanair "threatens" with the closure of bases in the Canariesil

Sun Jan 06, 2019 3:26 pm

rutankrd wrote:
There are more ways to generate yield than simply wider seats, inclusive sandwiches news papers and lounge access plus a bit of bribery in prepaid mileage “awards”


True. In fact, those things only cost money so you have to generate even higher yields to compensate for those costs. By leaving them out, you don't have the costs for them. That way, lower yields can still make higher profits.

AIRT0M wrote:
Not true. Lufthansa actually surpassed Ryanair again in 2018.

https://www.aero.de/news-30634/Ryanair- ... rueck.html


That is the Lufthansa Group, which is far more than just Lufthansa. It includes Swiss, Austrian, Brussels Airlines and EuroWings as well. Ryanair is the largest single airline in Europe. The difference with the Lufthansa group is very small by the way, both are more or less equally big.
 
[email protected]
Posts: 16616
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 6:29 pm

Re: Ryanair "threatens" with the closure of bases in the Canariesil

Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:05 pm

AIRT0M wrote:
leghorn wrote:
It was with pleasure that I read that Ryanair surpassed Lufthansa as having carried the most passengers this year.



Not true. Lufthansa actually surpassed Ryanair again in 2018.

https://www.aero.de/news-30634/Ryanair- ... rueck.html


You are comparing the entire Lufthansa Group - and all its airlines - to one single airline.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
leghorn
Posts: 944
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:13 am

Re: Ryanair "threatens" with the closure of bases in the Canaries

Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:45 pm

L410Turbolet wrote:
Another FR fanboy?

Couldn't possibly be a satisfied Customer?
 
leghorn
Posts: 944
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:13 am

Re: Ryanair "threatens" with the closure of bases in the Canaries

Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:53 pm

FlapsOne wrote:
They also threatened to ‘pivot away’ from the UK in the event of a brexit vote. They’ve done nothing but expand and open new bases. The GLA ‘closure’ was merely moving an aircraft to EDI. SEN is a new base and other UK bases have expanded. Ryanair threaten hard when things don’t go their way but don’t always carry out the threats when things don’t go their way.

Ryanair have closed enough bases on a consistent basis over the years for anyone negotiating with them to know that they are more than bluff and bluster.
The Alitalias, KLMs and AFs of this world may just capitulate at the slightest signs of resistance but that is not in Ryanair's DNA.
 
User avatar
PatrickZ80
Posts: 3944
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:33 am

Re: Ryanair "threatens" with the closure of bases in the Canaries

Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:09 pm

leghorn wrote:
L410Turbolet wrote:
Another FR fanboy?

Couldn't possibly be a satisfied Customer?


If it all goes right, people can actually be pretty satisfied about Ryanair. For example they offer pretty descent legroom (more than some legacy airlines) and the food and drinks on board are actually pretty good. They have to be for buy-on-board, otherwise nobody would buy them. People who know what to expect and confirm to that can actually enjoy flying Ryanair.
 
a350lover
Topic Author
Posts: 737
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:21 am

Re: Ryanair "threatens" with the closure of bases in the Canaries

Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:42 pm

One thinks today .... in fact, Easyjet, main Ryanair competitor in Europe, never opened any base in the Canaries.

Easyjet has shut down bases, but Ryanair has however done so more for labour reasons.

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