gunnerman
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PIA tells cabin crew to lose weight or be grounded

Mon Jan 07, 2019 6:31 pm

In an unusual move, Pakistan International Airlines has told cabin crew who are 30 lbs overweight to lose weight or be grounded.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-6564695/Pakistan-International-Airlines-tells-overweight-employees-need-shed-30lbs-July.html
 
slider
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Re: PIA tells cabin crew to lose weight or be grounded

Mon Jan 07, 2019 6:35 pm

Man I wish we could do this in the States.
 
Flightsimboy
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Re: PIA tells cabin crew to lose weight or be grounded

Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:08 pm

slider wrote:
Man I wish we could do this in the States.


Some years back maybe a decade ago a Hawaiian Airlines flight had pulled into the gate at LAX and when the cabin crew left the aircraft they were really obese. This one Cabin crew was waddling down. I was shocked such obesity was allowed considering I had just come off a Qantas flight from Sydney where they all seemed so well kept.

Besides airlines ask cabin crew to keep their weight in check. This is nothing new with PIA.
LAX772LR - "Answer to goofy question:" in response to my question about the B737-MAX8 being grounded. 48 hours later all B737-MAX8 grounded worldwide. Go figure!!
 
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alancostello
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Re: PIA tells cabin crew to lose weight or be grounded

Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:13 pm

slider wrote:
Man I wish we could do this in the States.


I don't want to sound insensitive or fat-shame, realistically obesity is a disease and something many people struggle with, but on my recent transatlantic flight there was a cabin crew member that was substantially overweight, to the extent of them not being able to walk down the aisle, they had to shuffle sideways and they hit every person on either side on their the way up and down. Surely there is a safety issue here, is that cabin member going to be able to do their job in an emergency situation?
 
Prost
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Re: PIA tells cabin crew to lose weight or be grounded

Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:14 pm

slider wrote:
Man I wish we could do this in the States.


If they perform their duties safely why do you care.
 
aviationaware
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Re: PIA tells cabin crew to lose weight or be grounded

Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:17 pm

Prost wrote:
slider wrote:
Man I wish we could do this in the States.


If they perform their duties safely why do you care.


Someone who, quote, 'waddles' can't perform their duties in case of an emergency.
 
DAL763ER
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Re: PIA tells cabin crew to lose weight or be grounded

Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:22 pm

When the plane crashes, I expect crew to be able to move fast and save people. They don't need to be bikini models, but they should be fit. Someone who can't stop eating should not be a flight attendant.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: PIA tells cabin crew to lose weight or be grounded

Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:23 pm

Once upon a time, crew had to be light to save fuel. Now I question if half the f/a could do their job. When a greying middle aged dude (myself) could do more (I've pretty much had all the training, just for flight test).

We do have an obesity epidemic. Flour is so processed it is gram for gram as bad or worse than sugar. Sodas... Don't get me started (research is showing diet doesn't help). So I bring lunch to work.

I routinely outrun people half my age, and I'm only in so-so shape. But I can still run 10km+ if needed.

In an emergency, spare physical ability is required. e.g., open that door and help kids out at 10 hours into the workday under high stress and help people.

Time to make everyone pass a certain physical conditioning. Walk instead of TV.

Heck, my extended family is doing a friendly challenge:. walk 50km per week per the Pokemon Go app. Buy in $100. You get 2 misses in 52 weeks. Winners split the pot. No bonus for extra. Just walk enough to be healthy.

I know it isn't fair, but safety jobs require better physical conditioning. I also see too many fellow parents having heart attacks before age 50. Bad to have a fa have a heart attack when needed.

Lightsaber
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MIflyer12
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Re: PIA tells cabin crew to lose weight or be grounded

Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:33 pm

DAL763ER wrote:
When the plane crashes, I expect crew to be able to move fast and save people. They don't need to be bikini models, but they should be fit. Someone who can't stop eating should not be a flight attendant.


Cabin crew are regularly tested to meet safety standards. There aren't too many people laboring in the U.S. private sector who can claim that.
 
Flighty
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Re: PIA tells cabin crew to lose weight or be grounded

Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:08 pm

I think US cabin crew are much, much more fit than average US adults. But maybe there are exceptions. As I get older and crews get more junior, I think the "grandma" stereotype has become fairly outdated. At least on domestic runs. After 9/11, crews were quite senior as an artifact of the baby boom and industry furloughs. Many years have passed and things seem different now. I rode a Delta A321 over the weekend. I think the captain looked about 34 (not older but maybe younger) and the head FA appeared maybe 26-28. Times are changing.

The average US adult is overweight to obese. The average FA is not. IMO
Last edited by Flighty on Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
TheOldDude
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Re: PIA tells cabin crew to lose weight or be grounded

Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:09 pm

Interesting that 40-50 years ago Wise People (TM) were saying that the earth could not produce sufficient food for it's population and therefore married couples should have no more than two children. Fast forward to today and there's an obesity epidemic that circles the globe and even threatens the livelihood of cabin crew.

I've read that the much of the obesity problem originated with the actions taken to combat the food shortages of the 60s and 70s, specifically the actions taken to make food more shelf stable and therefore carb rich. Since those actions resulted in the food we have in airports and aircraft today, not to mention restaurants, it's no surprise that flight crew are becoming larger.

Although eating less may help some crew, others may need a change of diet. Perhaps the airlines should help by changing crew meals. That may accomplish more than employment threats.
 
ddp
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Re: PIA tells cabin crew to lose weight or be grounded

Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:16 pm

As someone who used to take PIA annually from YYZ to KHI to visit the grandparents, this is the least of PIA's worries. Last time I was on a flight (2016) no working in seat entertainment, screaming kids and filthy filthy washrooms. My mom refuses to connect so we bit the bullet and took PIA, but there is a reason most people now days take the ME3 and Turkish to get in out of the country.
 
Flightsimboy
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Re: PIA tells cabin crew to lose weight or be grounded

Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:37 pm

ddp wrote:
As someone who used to take PIA annually from YYZ to KHI to visit the grandparents, this is the least of PIA's worries. Last time I was on a flight (2016) no working in seat entertainment, screaming kids and filthy filthy washrooms. My mom refuses to connect so we bit the bullet and took PIA, but there is a reason most people now days take the ME3 and Turkish to get in out of the country.


It''s the passengers that make a washroom filthy, filthy and yes it is the cabin crew who have to ensure they are kept clean. However if passengers ensured their part to keep washrooms clean on PIA it wouldn't hurt. (They keep them clean on the ME3 and Turkish) The issue with PIA, the attitude is it is our airline we will do what we wish, almost like they were at home. Would so love to take that nonstop to Karachi someday. Hopefully it''s better in the front of the plane.
LAX772LR - "Answer to goofy question:" in response to my question about the B737-MAX8 being grounded. 48 hours later all B737-MAX8 grounded worldwide. Go figure!!
 
JAAlbert
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Re: PIA tells cabin crew to lose weight or be grounded

Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:54 pm

Flightsimboy wrote:

Besides airlines ask cabin crew to keep their weight in check. This is nothing new with PIA.


Do they? I thought US airlines stopped that practice years ago.

In any event, if the airlines are going to apply this standard, apply it to ALL employees onboard - pilots included. So many pilots look physically out of shape and sport a belly hanging over their belt.

Personally, I am not too impressed by the flight-attendants-as-models concept. Give me my half a can of cola, smile occasionally, and perform the other aspects of the job and I will be fine.
 
Flightsimboy
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Re: PIA tells cabin crew to lose weight or be grounded

Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:59 pm

JAAlbert wrote:
Flightsimboy wrote:

Besides airlines ask cabin crew to keep their weight in check. This is nothing new with PIA.


Do they? I thought US airlines stopped that practice years ago.

In any event, if the airlines are going to apply this standard, apply it to ALL employees onboard - pilots included. So many pilots look physically out of shape and sport a belly hanging over their belt.

Personally, I am not too impressed by the flight-attendants-as-models concept. Give me my half a can of cola, smile occasionally, and perform the other aspects of the job and I will be fine.


Try bring overweight at any of the ME3 or the Asian carriers :). Those Sarong kebayas were designed for one purpose not obesity :)
LAX772LR - "Answer to goofy question:" in response to my question about the B737-MAX8 being grounded. 48 hours later all B737-MAX8 grounded worldwide. Go figure!!
 
johns624
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Re: PIA tells cabin crew to lose weight or be grounded

Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:38 pm

Flighty wrote:
I rode a Delta A321 over the weekend. I think the captain looked about 34 (not older but maybe younger)
You sure the "captain" wasn't a jumpseating regional guy or an FO? A relative of mine is a DL 320 Captain who just made the jump a year ago with 20 years seniority and he's on reserve.
 
johns624
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Re: PIA tells cabin crew to lose weight or be grounded

Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:40 pm

JAAlbert wrote:
Personally, I am not too impressed by the flight-attendants-as-models concept. Give me my half a can of cola, smile occasionally, and perform the other aspects of the job and I will be fine.
Exactly. The only ones who care how attractive FAs are is incels living in their fantasy world.
 
JayBCNLON
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Re: PIA tells cabin crew to lose weight or be grounded

Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:48 pm

I am with PIA on this. BTW: tried flying them once SIN to BKK. Was shocked when I saw them make orange juice out of concentrate in 10 Liter canisters in the galley. Never made it off the ground in their 747. cockpit window was apparently broken. 6 Hours later were rebooked on Bangladesh Biman‘s legendary floral colored DC10s.
Last edited by JayBCNLON on Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Prost
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Re: PIA tells cabin crew to lose weight or be grounded

Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:55 pm

Flightsimboy wrote:
Try bring overweight at any of the ME3 or the Asian carriers :). Those Sarong kebayas were designed for one purpose not obesity :)


EK has some FAs of size. In 2019 it amazes me that a forum mostly populated with men feel comfortable commenting and expressing how an industry most employing women should look.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: PIA tells cabin crew to lose weight or be grounded

Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:04 am

Flighty wrote:
I think US cabin crew are much, much more fit than average US adults.

That doesn't say much. I just spent 3 days at a water park/hotel to give my kids excercise. Considering my swim safe step counter registered 17,000+ steps a day, I succeeded. But over half the adults couldn't be rolled past the Dunkin Donuts inside the place. So much for fit Southern Californians...

Some airlines have healthy crews. Some, couldn't pass the tests I have.

Lightsaber
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gunnerman
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Re: PIA tells cabin crew to lose weight or be grounded

Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:13 am

Prost wrote:
Flightsimboy wrote:
Try bring overweight at any of the ME3 or the Asian carriers :). Those Sarong kebayas were designed for one purpose not obesity :)


EK has some FAs of size. In 2019 it amazes me that a forum mostly populated with men feel comfortable commenting and expressing how an industry most employing women should look.

Try telling that to SQ. The Singapore Girl must not only be good at her job, she must look the part. It's impossible to imagine a fat one wearing a sarong kebaya.
 
Iloveboeing
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Re: PIA tells cabin crew to lose weight or be grounded

Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:05 am

johns624 wrote:
JAAlbert wrote:
Personally, I am not too impressed by the flight-attendants-as-models concept. Give me my half a can of cola, smile occasionally, and perform the other aspects of the job and I will be fine.
Exactly. The only ones who care how attractive FAs are is incels living in their fantasy world.


They may not have to be "beautiful" anymore, but their weight should be appropriate to the job so they can perform all of their required duties, especially in the event of an emergency.

I've heard of some flight attendants being so obese that they "bump" into people going up and down the aisle, which makes one wonder if they'd be able to adequately assist in an emergency. Both flight attendants and pilots need to keep their weight in check.
 
Prost
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Re: PIA tells cabin crew to lose weight or be grounded

Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:32 am

gunnerman wrote:
Prost wrote:
Flightsimboy wrote:
Try bring overweight at any of the ME3 or the Asian carriers :). Those Sarong kebayas were designed for one purpose not obesity :)


EK has some FAs of size. In 2019 it amazes me that a forum mostly populated with men feel comfortable commenting and expressing how an industry most employing women should look.

Try telling that to SQ. The Singapore Girl must not only be good at her job, she must look the part. It's impossible to imagine a fat one wearing a sarong kebaya.


I said EK, nothing about SQ. My overriding position is I have no right to say how a woman looks.
 
airtran737
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Re: PIA tells cabin crew to lose weight or be grounded

Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:44 am

Good for them. An airline as well as other companies should be able to control their brand image.
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
Flightsimboy
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Re: PIA tells cabin crew to lose weight or be grounded

Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:10 am

Prost wrote:
Flightsimboy wrote:
Try bring overweight at any of the ME3 or the Asian carriers :). Those Sarong kebayas were designed for one purpose not obesity :)


EK has some FAs of size. In 2019 it amazes me that a forum mostly populated with men feel comfortable commenting and expressing how an industry most employing women should look.


Those would be FAs with seniority. There are plenty of Pursers, senior FAs with over 20+ years at EK.

None of the men on here are commenting how a woman should look. It's what the industry expects of cabin crew both women and men. We don't make the decisions they do.

SQ is one out there that would seem to enforce this rule point blank. As gunnerman said it's impossible to see an SQ girl who did not fit the part in that sarong kebabya.
LAX772LR - "Answer to goofy question:" in response to my question about the B737-MAX8 being grounded. 48 hours later all B737-MAX8 grounded worldwide. Go figure!!
 
a350lover
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Re: PIA tells cabin crew to lose weight or be grounded

Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:42 am

[/code]
slider wrote:
Man I wish we could do this in the States.


Wrongest comment I've read in a while. It's perfectly fine if someone personally believes something like that. It still amazes me that these days, despite current movements around the world which seem to be global, some people still don't find any issues on leaving a comment like that and feels confortable. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate freedom of speech and all that, but sometimes I also have opinions which are not necessarily like the ones of the majority of people, and I just keep them for me.

And honestly, we all have a little bit of "seniority" here, so I think it's a bit silly to start with the "physical condition" topic. An airline would never make a public and general letter for the women group of FA if they were just after the physical condition of the collective. We all agree on that, and to be able to work as a flight attendant you need to meet and pass a medical check that you go through regularly. That's at the physician's criteria, not even the airline's criteria.
 
avier
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Re: PIA tells cabin crew to lose weight or be grounded

Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:05 am

Nice the airline is enforcing some rules. If as per their working contract, their supposed to be in shape and weight within the prescribed BMI limits, so be it. Those who cry foul here about the consequences can cry, rules won't be bent.

Also good to see PIA taking a leaf out of Air India's book. AI has had to do this almost on a yearly basis with their overweight cabin crew. The last one I could get off the net is below ;

Air India puts 57 'overweight' crew on ground duty
https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.economictimes.com/industry/transportation/airlines-/-aviation/air-india-puts-57-overweight-crew-on-ground-duty/amp_articleshow/56680246.cms

And another from 2015 : Air India to ground 'fat' cabin crew
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-34242151
 
oldannyboy
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Re: PIA tells cabin crew to lose weight or be grounded

Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:37 am

Totally with PIA on this. I have had several combinations of / senior+overweight+sloppy looking / FAs on several airlines (not just the US3, but surprisingly also on SK, LH, LX, SN...the list goes on...), and frankly it's not the ideal scenario, neither for the airline, nor for passengers.

Fat FAs (male & female) look sloppy, unprofessional, and I have personally seen one particular overweight FA struggle to perform their services due to their sheer size, bumping into people, struggling to get through the narrow aisles, panting noisily, and even struggling to lift the juice carton with their chunky, short arms.... you get the picture..
While s/he may have been be nice and friendly, s/he did look a tad 'out of place' if not even uncomfortable/aware while performing their duties in front of other people, and I did wonder how this particular FA would perform in critical circumstances.....
So, while I personally strongly feel about the 'looks & brand image' part, my main concern is also about physical ability in case of emergency.

This has absolutely zero to do with men telling women how they should look like. People need to grow out of this bubble.
I still feel that people in general, and even more so FAs, should take their grooming very very seriously when having to perform their duties while facing the public.
 
Flighty
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Re: PIA tells cabin crew to lose weight or be grounded

Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:37 am

johns624 wrote:
Flighty wrote:
I rode a Delta A321 over the weekend. I think the captain looked about 34 (not older but maybe younger)
You sure the "captain" wasn't a jumpseating regional guy or an FO? A relative of mine is a DL 320 Captain who just made the jump a year ago with 20 years seniority and he's on reserve.


Thank you, I must be wrong but I thought he had stripes and was waving the passengers goodbye with the “flight leader.” He must have been the FO as he did not look like a legacy captain, too young by far. It was a very junior flight at 5:30am out of SLC.
 
geologyrocks
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Re: PIA tells cabin crew to lose weight or be grounded

Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:18 pm

30lbs overweight is a lot. Being 29 lbs overweight certainly doesn’t make you a super model. Again, 30 lbs is a lot and in my opinion, not an exesssive requirement.

I’m not going to fat shame someone but I’m also not on board with the do what feels good crowd. Being overweight is unhealthy and it’s not attractive (on either sex).

Some may have outlining reasons why they are overweight but usually it comes down to diet, exercise and self control. There is nothing wrong with enjoying a Coke or a cake as long as you do so in moderation. These people that carry around the 32oz Cokes, drinking them three times per day and literally just drinking 1000 calories and 200 grams of sugar blow my mind.
 
PixelPilot
Posts: 254
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Re: PIA tells cabin crew to lose weight or be grounded

Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:39 pm

a350lover wrote:
[/code]
slider wrote:
Man I wish we could do this in the States.


Wrongest comment I've read in a while. It's perfectly fine if someone personally believes something like that. It still amazes me that these days, despite current movements around the world which seem to be global, some people still don't find any issues on leaving a comment like that and feels confortable. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate freedom of speech and all that, but sometimes I also have opinions which are not necessarily like the ones of the majority of people, and I just keep them for me.

And honestly, we all have a little bit of "seniority" here, so I think it's a bit silly to start with the "physical condition" topic. An airline would never make a public and general letter for the women group of FA if they were just after the physical condition of the collective. We all agree on that, and to be able to work as a flight attendant you need to meet and pass a medical check that you go through regularly. That's at the physician's criteria, not even the airline's criteria.


Actually that was a perfect comment and you are the proof why.
It's a fact that obesity is a major problem. Publix in my area has similar number of electric carts than regular ones cause some people can't even walk. Sure you will say they might be sick but if they are why they go to the deli and order 50 BBQ wings and load a crate of coca cola?
Give me a break with political correctness. Start calling things as they are and MAYBE some people will wake up.

As for PIA, great move in my opinion. You need to be fit to do this kind of job.
 
slider
Posts: 7423
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:42 pm

Re: PIA tells cabin crew to lose weight or be grounded

Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:43 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
DAL763ER wrote:
When the plane crashes, I expect crew to be able to move fast and save people. They don't need to be bikini models, but they should be fit. Someone who can't stop eating should not be a flight attendant.


Cabin crew are regularly tested to meet safety standards. There aren't too many people laboring in the U.S. private sector who can claim that.



Yeah, and I've seen recurrent training when they do the evac part...it's, well, um, let's just say it's not as, oh, "rigorous" as you might think. I've never understood fat police officers or obese FAs.

Once they're in, very little will get them out, standards be damned.
 
gunnerman
Topic Author
Posts: 888
Joined: Fri May 19, 2017 7:55 pm

Re: PIA tells cabin crew to lose weight or be grounded

Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:03 pm

Some years ago I knew a purser who had been working for BA for about 15 years. She admitted to being 2-3 stone (28-42 lbs) overweight. As an aside, when I told her that new cabin crew recruits had to be able to swim, she said: "I can't swim!"

So, standards can vary.
 
Amsterdam
Posts: 387
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 12:52 am

Re: PIA tells cabin crew to lose weight or be grounded

Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:14 pm

Should happen everywhere
 
Western727
Posts: 1642
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2007 12:38 pm

Re: PIA tells cabin crew to lose weight or be grounded

Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:03 pm

I'm in favor of weight standards for FAs and pilots, regardless of gender. I want them able to move about quickly in an emergency, even as seldom as they occur. Being a bit overweight (e.g., roughly 30 lbs for a 6' individual) is as far as I'm willing to consider reasonable.
Jack @ AUS
 
Redwood839
Posts: 221
Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2009 4:26 am

Re: PIA tells cabin crew to lose weight or be grounded

Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:23 pm

I feel like this is the norm for Hawaii-Mainland flights on UA. Every F/A is young, gold tone and pretty.

The rest of the US they look like shit.

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