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Zoedyn
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Helsinki in vogue: Tibet Airlines to fly to HEL from Lhasa via Jinan in April, followed by CZ/HO from CAN/PVG later

Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:53 am

http://sd.sina.com.cn/news/2019-01-08/d ... html?from=

Per local Shandong provincial press, Tibet Airlines/TV announced today on Jan 8th in Jinan that it is going to open its 1st intercontinental route linking Shandong provincial capital Jinan and Finnish capital Helsinki, as well as starting a domestic connection btwn Lhasa and Jinan, beginning from April 8th, both being 2x weekly flights on Mondays and Thursdays

With this route, TV will become the first Chinese airline to fly to Helsinki

TNA-HEL will be operated by TV's A330 aircraft, equipped with EX3 AVOD in-flight entertainment system

TV, based in Lhasa, currently has 31 aircraft in its fleet with over 60 routes


Whoa, this route is finally ready to happen having being in the making for a couple of years. Congratulations to TV

Seems Helsinki is becoming a rather popular destination for Chinese carriers this year, as both CZ and Juneyao Airlines/HO are also known to be going to launch CAN/PVG-HEL respectively in the middle of 2019

Interesting to note how many tourists in the West would fly with Tibet Airlines on this flight ✈️ to pay a visit to the mysterious Tibet


Image
Image
Pic credit: Shandong Jiaotong Radio
 
Nami
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Re: Helsinki in vogue: Tibet Airlines to fly to HEL from Lhasa via Jinan in April, followed by CZ/HO from CAN/PVG later

Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:27 pm

I'll believe it when I see the aircraft touch the runway (the same goes for all three carriers). Lucky Air never started their flights even though a press release was published. I know the flights would be mostly Chinese tour groups but it’s a bit of a shame that it’s pretty much impossible to buy tickets for these lesser-known airlines when their websites are only available in Chinese.
Last edited by Nami on Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
Adipocere
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Re: Helsinki in vogue: Tibet Airlines to fly to HEL from Lhasa via Jinan in April, followed by CZ/HO from CAN/PVG later

Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:41 pm

Isn’t Lhasa airport at something like 12000 ft above MSL? Are they planning on a tech stop somewhere in Russia or does the A330 have the lungs to make it into the (thin) air all the way to Finland?
 
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Re: Helsinki in vogue: Tibet Airlines to fly to HEL from Lhasa via Jinan in April, followed by CZ/HO from CAN/PVG later

Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:13 pm

Adipocere wrote:
Isn’t Lhasa airport at something like 12000 ft above MSL? Are they planning on a tech stop somewhere in Russia or does the A330 have the lungs to make it into the (thin) air all the way to Finland?


They've got a sizeable fleet of A319s and A320s, it's possible that the Jinan-Lhasa leg will be operated with those as opposed to the A330.
 
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spinotter
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Re: Helsinki in vogue: Tibet Airlines to fly to HEL from Lhasa via Jinan in April, followed by CZ/HO from CAN/PVG later

Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:02 pm

Adipocere wrote:
Isn’t Lhasa airport at something like 12000 ft above MSL? Are they planning on a tech stop somewhere in Russia or does the A330 have the lungs to make it into the (thin) air all the way to Finland?


The website is perhaps not totally clear, but it seems that there will be two new routes: Jinan-Lhasa and Jinan-Helsinki, thus no nonstop Lhasa-Helsinki.
 
ahj2000
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Re: Helsinki in vogue: Tibet Airlines to fly to HEL from Lhasa via Jinan in April, followed by CZ/HO from CAN/PVG later

Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:11 pm

http://www.gcmap.com/map?P=lxa-tna-hel, ... 0x360&PM=*

Ridiculously out of the way, but there’s not exactly a lot in which to stop in NW China I guess?
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raylee67
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Re: Helsinki in vogue: Tibet Airlines to fly to HEL from Lhasa via Jinan in April, followed by CZ/HO from CAN/PVG later

Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:21 pm

The flight is really Jinan-Helsinki. It has nothing to do with Lhasa. The flight starts from Lhasa probably only because that's where the A330 is based in operationally.

Just another heavily subsidized international route that doesn't make much sense. Remind me of all those routes by Hainan group.
319/20/21 332/33 342/43/45 351 388 707 717 732/36/3G/38/39 74R/42/43/44/4E/48 757 762/63 772/7L/73/7W 788/89 D10 M80 135/40/45 175/90 DH1/4 CRJ/R7 L10
AY LH OU SR BA FI
AA DL UA NW AC CP WS FL NK PD
CI NH SQ KA CX JL BR OZ TG KE CA CZ NZ JQ RS
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: Helsinki in vogue: Tibet Airlines to fly to HEL from Lhasa via Jinan in April, followed by CZ/HO from CAN/PVG later

Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:23 pm

spinotter wrote:
Adipocere wrote:
Isn’t Lhasa airport at something like 12000 ft above MSL? Are they planning on a tech stop somewhere in Russia or does the A330 have the lungs to make it into the (thin) air all the way to Finland?


The website is perhaps not totally clear, but it seems that there will be two new routes: Jinan-Lhasa and Jinan-Helsinki, thus no nonstop Lhasa-Helsinki.


TV only has flights from TNA to LHW (Lanzhou) right now (a daily A320), so unless they're going to based an A330 at TNA (Doubtful), it has to come from somewhere. I would assume it's LXA-TNA-HEL for the plane rotation.

P.S. You're just not going to see non-stop from LXA to any "western" nations soon anyway, not with the restriction of "westerners" in general into Tibet.
P.S. I wonder how much Jinan (and Shandong gov't) subsidize this flight. This is not just the first Chinese airlines going to HEL, but also the first Chinese airlines flying from TNA to anywhere in Europe (Moscow right now seems to have a PegasFly flight, while there's that totally random XL Airways France TNA-CDG flight). This is also just the 2nd long-haul flight to anywhere from TNA for a Chinese carrier (The other one being 3U's 3/wk CTU-TNA-LAX)
 
workhorse
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Re: Helsinki in vogue: Tibet Airlines to fly to HEL from Lhasa via Jinan in April, followed by CZ/HO from CAN/PVG later

Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:48 pm

zakuivcustom wrote:
P.S. You're just not going to see non-stop from LXA to any "western" nations soon anyway, not with the restriction of "westerners" in general into Tibet.


I would rather say it's the other way round: I don't see what prevents an LXA-Europe non-stop flight (other than high altitude), but a Europe-LXA flight will necessary have to stop somewhere else in China where all passengers will have to disembark and have their TTP or Chinese national ID card checked.

On a side note, I, personally, wouldn't take such flight anyway. Going from Helsinki (elevation 55 m / 179 ft) to Lhasa (elevation 3 570 m / 11,713 ft) overnight is asking for trouble unless you were born in Tibet. Staying a couple of days somewhere in between (e.g. Xining) is the way to go.
 
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Re: Helsinki in vogue: Tibet Airlines to fly to HEL from Lhasa via Jinan in April, followed by CZ/HO from CAN/PVG later

Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:03 pm

workhorse wrote:
zakuivcustom wrote:
P.S. You're just not going to see non-stop from LXA to any "western" nations soon anyway, not with the restriction of "westerners" in general into Tibet.


I would rather say it's the other way round: I don't see what prevents an LXA-Europe non-stop flight (other than high altitude), but a Europe-LXA flight will necessary have to stop somewhere else in China where all passengers will have to disembark and have their TTP (or Chinese national ID card) checked.

On a side note, I wouldn't take such flight anyway. Going from Helsinki (elevation 55 m / 179 ft) to Lhasa (elevation 3 570 m / 11,713 ft) overnight is asking for trouble (unless you were born in Tibet). Staying a couple of days somewhere in between (e.g. Xining) is the way to go.


True. The altitude would present some problem, but LXA is far west enough (thus much shorter distance) that planes like A332 should have zero problems going to Europe.

Technically they won't have a problem going from Europe->LXA, either. They just have to check for Tibet Tourism Permit for foreigners at the originating airport. This would prevent any connection potential at LXA, but how many people are going to connect at LXA anyway? But the traffic number would just not be large enough due to the numerous restriction placed to get the permit (i.e. has to be on a group tour, etc.)
 
workhorse
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Re: Helsinki in vogue: Tibet Airlines to fly to HEL from Lhasa via Jinan in April, followed by CZ/HO from CAN/PVG later

Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:10 pm

ahj2000 wrote:
http://www.gcmap.com/map?P=lxa-tna-hel,+lxa-hel&MS=wls&MR=540&MX=720x360&PM=*

Ridiculously out of the way, but there’s not exactly a lot in which to stop in NW China I guess?


Urumqi would make the most sense. Lanzhou and Xining are on the way as well (I may be wrong but I think flights from LXA to the west have to go through Xining anyway because there's no airways going over the Kunlun mountains other than the famous L888 which is not open to two-engined aircraft).

Xian is not too much out of track but it's Hainan's nest.
 
workhorse
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Re: Helsinki in vogue: Tibet Airlines to fly to HEL from Lhasa via Jinan in April, followed by CZ/HO from CAN/PVG later

Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:18 pm

zakuivcustom wrote:
Technically they won't have a problem going from Europe->LXA, either. They just have to check for Tibet Tourism Permit for foreigners at the originating airport.


Then I guess they would need an authorized Chinese official in the European airport.

Also, I am not sure the TTP can be delivered overseas. Currently you have to collect it in China (but they can come and give it to you personally at the hotel or even at the railway station/airport if you pay for it).

zakuivcustom wrote:
This would prevent any connection potential at LXA, but how many people are going to connect at LXA anyway? But the traffic number would just not be large enough due to the numerous restriction placed to get the permit (i.e. has to be on a group tour, etc.)


Well, you can go on an individual tour with an individual permit. It's hell of expensive, but possible.

Anyway, congrats to TV, LXA, TNA and HEL, if this goes through. A Tibet tail in Vantaa will be quite a sight!
Last edited by workhorse on Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
c933103
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Re: Helsinki in vogue: Tibet Airlines to fly to HEL from Lhasa via Jinan in April, followed by CZ/HO from CAN/PVG later

Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:27 pm

ahj2000 wrote:
http://www.gcmap.com/map?P=lxa-tna-hel,+lxa-hel&MS=wls&MR=540&MX=720x360&PM=*

Ridiculously out of the way, but there’s not exactly a lot in which to stop in NW China I guess?

I would like to point out that they actually isn't launching such a via route, instead they're simply launching two separate routes out of Jinan, one to Lhasa and then another one to Helsinki. It is just that they will probably fly the aircraft from Lhasa to Jinan before it fly the Jinan - Helsinki route.
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Re: Helsinki in vogue: Tibet Airlines to fly to HEL from Lhasa via Jinan in April, followed by CZ/HO from CAN/PVG later

Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:34 pm

I am assuming this popularity has a lot to do with AY's long-term plans in Asia- they already fly to CAN, CKG, NKG, HKG, PEK, PVG, XIY on the mainland- Finland must have to grant equal rights to Chinese carriers and it took a while for a Chinese carrier to find it worthwhile.
 
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Re: Helsinki in vogue: Tibet Airlines to fly to HEL from Lhasa via Jinan in April, followed by CZ/HO from CAN/PVG later

Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:37 pm

c933103 wrote:
ahj2000 wrote:
http://www.gcmap.com/map?P=lxa-tna-hel,+lxa-hel&MS=wls&MR=540&MX=720x360&PM=*

Ridiculously out of the way, but there’s not exactly a lot in which to stop in NW China I guess?

I would like to point out that they actually isn't launching such a via route, instead they're simply launching two separate routes out of Jinan, one to Lhasa and then another one to Helsinki. It is just that they will probably fly the aircraft from Lhasa to Jinan before it fly the Jinan - Helsinki route.


Yeah, sure, but it's so fascinating to talk about it as of LXA-HEL.

Imagine Lhasa on the departures screen at Helsinki Vantaa!
 
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Re: Helsinki in vogue: Tibet Airlines to fly to HEL from Lhasa via Jinan in April, followed by CZ/HO from CAN/PVG later

Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:03 pm

A signal to avoid visiting Finland
 
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Re: Helsinki in vogue: Tibet Airlines to fly to HEL from Lhasa via Jinan in April, followed by CZ/HO from CAN/PVG later

Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:13 pm

Kind of random... almost nonsensical route.

TV is owned by CA but is starting a long haul flight from an airport in Shandong that it doesn't currently serve. Why is this flight not operated by Shandong Airlines (SC), another airline owned by CA?

I guess SC (which has all 737 fleet) doesn't have the right plane so TV has to step in with A332? It will be interesting to take at look at TV's A332 utilization... It has 5x frame and apparently can spare a frame to operate esoteric routes from TNA to HEL.
 
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Re: Helsinki in vogue: Tibet Airlines to fly to HEL from Lhasa via Jinan in April, followed by CZ/HO from CAN/PVG later

Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:33 pm

Finavia comfirms the coming Jinan-Helsinki service by Tibet Airways. It is currently planned the new route will commence on April 8th, operated with Airbus A330 twice a week on Mondays and Thursdays. So no Lhasa connection coming.

https://www.finavia.fi/en/newsroom/2019 ... inan-china

As Nami says above we still have doubts but if this new service materialize, next summer HEL will offer 44 weekly departures to mainland China & HK, to HKG PEK PVG CAN CKG NKG XIY and TNA.
 
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Re: Helsinki in vogue: Tibet Airlines to fly to HEL from Lhasa via Jinan in April, followed by CZ/HO from CAN/PVG later

Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:38 pm

bzcat wrote:
Kind of random... almost nonsensical route.

TV is owned by CA but is starting a long haul flight from an airport in Shandong that it doesn't currently serve. Why is this flight not operated by Shandong Airlines (SC), another airline owned by CA?

I guess SC (which has all 737 fleet) doesn't have the right plane so TV has to step in with A332? It will be interesting to take at look at TV's A332 utilization... It has 5x frame and apparently can spare a frame to operate esoteric routes from TNA to HEL.


Well, I would say SC's lack of a long-haul plane is definitely the main reason. SC doesn't have plan to get any 787s or A330s, either, unlike pretty much every other airlines in mainland PRC.

Let see, right now the 5 A332's run 10 flights per day:
2x LXA-XIY
3x LXA-CTU
2x CTU-SYX
2x CTU-SHA
1x CTU-SZX

The only surprising part is that the flight will originate from TNA, not CTU anyway. But I guess "One Airline One Route" prevent that from happening? (Lucky Air announced CTU-HEL, but never started that flight).

chunhimlai wrote:
A signal to avoid visiting Finland


Meh, there are already tons of Chinese tourists in Finland already anyway (389k in 2017 and growing), especially in Rovaniemi (For the aurora). It got to a point where AY actually had considered charters or even possibly scheduled flight from Rovaniemi to/from PRC. What's another 2 flights a week going to really do anyway?
 
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Re: Helsinki in vogue: Tibet Airlines to fly to HEL from Lhasa via Jinan in April, followed by CZ/HO from CAN/PVG later

Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:02 pm

workhorse wrote:
zakuivcustom wrote:
P.S. You're just not going to see non-stop from LXA to any "western" nations soon anyway, not with the restriction of "westerners" in general into Tibet.


I would rather say it's the other way round: I don't see what prevents an LXA-Europe non-stop flight (other than high altitude), but a Europe-LXA flight will necessary have to stop somewhere else in China where all passengers will have to disembark and have their TTP or Chinese national ID card checked.

On a side note, I, personally, wouldn't take such flight anyway. Going from Helsinki (elevation 55 m / 179 ft) to Lhasa (elevation 3 570 m / 11,713 ft) overnight is asking for trouble unless you were born in Tibet. Staying a couple of days somewhere in between (e.g. Xining) is the way to go.

What has being born in Tibet to do with anything? And going from sea level to 3500 m.a.s.l. is no big deal. Thousands of people do that every day on the Lima-Cuzco route alone, and they do so in an hour and a half. No sweat.
 
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Re: Helsinki in vogue: Tibet Airlines to fly to HEL from Lhasa via Jinan in April, followed by CZ/HO from CAN/PVG later

Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:35 am

HELyes wrote:
Finavia comfirms the coming Jinan-Helsinki service by Tibet Airways. It is currently planned the new route will commence on April 8th, operated with Airbus A330 twice a week on Mondays and Thursdays. So no Lhasa connection coming.

https://www.finavia.fi/en/newsroom/2019 ... inan-china

As Nami says above we still have doubts but if this new service materialize, next summer HEL will offer 44 weekly departures to mainland China & HK, to HKG PEK PVG CAN CKG NKG XIY and TNA.

And up to 58 weekly flights if the planned daily services from CZ and HO materialize ;) I think, they are more likely than Lucky Air or Beijing Capital Airlines but let's see...
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workhorse
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Re: Helsinki in vogue: Tibet Airlines to fly to HEL from Lhasa via Jinan in April, followed by CZ/HO from CAN/PVG later

Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:13 am

MalevTU134 wrote:
What has being born in Tibet to do with anything? And going from sea level to 3500 m.a.s.l. is no big deal. Thousands of people do that every day on the Lima-Cuzco route alone, and they do so in an hour and a half. No sweat.


It can become a big deal if your lungs and your blood are not accustomed to extract sufficient quantity of oxygen from the thin air. Not all people are equal regarding this problem and you can't know in advance where you stand (it does not only depend on your general physical condition). In the best case, you'll get away with a bit of headache. In the worst case, well, you probably won't die of pulmonary oedema in Lhasa but you'll spend a handful of quite ugly nights in hospital coughing your lungs out, making nightmares each time you start to fall asleep and reaching for that oxygen mask every 5 minutes.

Being born in Tibet (or in Cuzco) accustoms your body to high altitude from the beginning and then you don't lose it. A Tibetan who spent 5 years in Shanghai can go back to Lhasa or even higher with no problems. You (assuming you are from Hungary) can spend a month at 4000-5000 meters, get completely acclimatized, then go down for a couple of weeks, and if after that you go back it will be all over again.

I repeat, this is not an exact science, not all people are equal, but it's a risk and an unnecessary stress for your body. If you can avoid it, why not? Stay safe.
 
MalevTU134
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Re: Helsinki in vogue: Tibet Airlines to fly to HEL from Lhasa via Jinan in April, followed by CZ/HO from CAN/PVG later

Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:35 am

workhorse wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
What has being born in Tibet to do with anything? And going from sea level to 3500 m.a.s.l. is no big deal. Thousands of people do that every day on the Lima-Cuzco route alone, and they do so in an hour and a half. No sweat.


It can become a big deal if your lungs and your blood are not accustomed to extract sufficient quantity of oxygen from the thin air. Not all people are equal regarding this problem and you can't know in advance where you stand (it does not only depend on your general physical condition). In the best case, you'll get away with a bit of headache. In the worst case, well, you probably won't die of pulmonary oedema in Lhasa but you'll spend a handful of quite ugly nights in hospital coughing your lungs out, making nightmares each time you start to fall asleep and reaching for that oxygen mask every 5 minutes.

Being born in Tibet (or in Cuzco) accustoms your body to high altitude from the beginning and then you don't lose it. A Tibetan who spent 5 years in Shanghai can go back to Lhasa or even higher with no problems. You (assuming you are from Hungary) can spend a month at 4000-5000 meters, get completely acclimatized, then go down for a couple of weeks, and if after that you go back it will be all over again.

I repeat, this is not an exact science, not all people are equal, but it's a risk and an unnecessary stress for your body. If you can avoid it, why not? Stay safe.

As a medical doctor, I can tell you that you are correct, with exception for the highlighted part. Being born at altitude does not "vaccinate" you aganst altitude sickness (nor against the more serious conditions HAPE (High Altitude Pulmonary Edema) and HACE (High Altitude Cerebral Edema)). Living at altitude does of course get your erythropoietin going, thereby making your body produce more erthrocytes, but if a Tibetan moves to Shanghai, his levels will decrease in the same way as would that of a Finn or Swede (as me). The body adapts both ways, going up and going down, but the effect of living at altitude disappears in matter of weeks or a few months.
 
workhorse
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Re: Helsinki in vogue: Tibet Airlines to fly to HEL from Lhasa via Jinan in April, followed by CZ/HO from CAN/PVG later

Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:43 pm

MalevTU134 wrote:
As a medical doctor, I can tell you that you are correct, with exception for the highlighted part. Being born at altitude does not "vaccinate" you aganst altitude sickness (nor against the more serious conditions HAPE (High Altitude Pulmonary Edema) and HACE (High Altitude Cerebral Edema)). Living at altitude does of course get your erythropoietin going, thereby making your body produce more erthrocytes, but if a Tibetan moves to Shanghai, his levels will decrease in the same way as would that of a Finn or Swede (as me). The body adapts both ways, going up and going down, but the effect of living at altitude disappears in matter of weeks or a few months.


OK, I get it. I think I've seen Tibetans doing that (going directly back home after having spent several years "down there") but maybe they too were gambling with their health.
 
MalevTU134
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Re: Helsinki in vogue: Tibet Airlines to fly to HEL from Lhasa via Jinan in April, followed by CZ/HO from CAN/PVG later

Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:48 pm

workhorse wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
As a medical doctor, I can tell you that you are correct, with exception for the highlighted part. Being born at altitude does not "vaccinate" you aganst altitude sickness (nor against the more serious conditions HAPE (High Altitude Pulmonary Edema) and HACE (High Altitude Cerebral Edema)). Living at altitude does of course get your erythropoietin going, thereby making your body produce more erthrocytes, but if a Tibetan moves to Shanghai, his levels will decrease in the same way as would that of a Finn or Swede (as me). The body adapts both ways, going up and going down, but the effect of living at altitude disappears in matter of weeks or a few months.


OK, I get it. I think I've seen Tibetans doing that (going directly back home after having spent several years "down there") but maybe they too were gambling with their health.

Well, it is not big of a gamble. As I said, thousands of people go daily from LIM to CUZ in 90 minutes. And extremely few get problems beyond a headache or nausea for a few hours. And for those that do, the remedy is easy.
 
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Zoedyn
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Re: Helsinki in vogue: Tibet Airlines to fly to HEL from Lhasa via Jinan in April, followed by CZ/HO from CAN/PVG later

Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:46 pm

I believe all these three routes to HEL are 99% likely to happen this year (barring unforeseen irresistibles like epidemic outbreak, political crisis) as they each hold a ton of significance to the respective carriers

TNA-HEL: the 1st intercontinental longhaul for TV that got 5 A330s, and failing to open service this April, TV risks losing the hard-won route authority gained more than a year ago under CAAC's new regulation governing use of int'l traffic rights (cf: Beijing Capital Airlines applied for PEK-HEL twice in the past couple years and obviously seemed to have failed twice in securing approval)

CAN-HEL: a key intercontinental longhaul for CZ after it left SkyTeam at a time when it is seeking to forge ever closer cooperation with OW member AY

PVG-HEL: also the 1st intercontinental long haul route for HO. Doubtless HO just couldn't wait to kickstart longhaul ops for its 1st batch of brand new B789s to spread wings beyond Asia

Just to put TV's TNA-HEL in better geographic perspective
LXA-HEL at a great circle distance of 5908 km as versus to TNA-HEL at 6647 km
Aircraft range should be no issue for nonstop LXA-HEL
Image
Map via Great Circle Mapper

I also believe high altitude should be not much of an issue for pax taking nonstop longhauls from/to LXA
I concur with MalevTU134 here, as also evidenced by the fact that thousands of Chinese pax fly to/out of Tibet everyday on flights with TV, 3U, CA, PN, MU, etc, obviously with no big deal

TV route network
Image
Source: Tibet Airlines via CARNOC.COM

Note: CAAC has tightened regulation concerning the use of int'l traffic rights Chinese airlines have gained from the agency with the rollout of a dedicated directive in that respect last year (See: http://www.caac.gov.cn/XXGK/XXGK/ZFGW/2 ... 036835.pdf)

Per the stipulation, a Chinese airline is given one year's time at most for preps to start a flight after it got route authority from CAAC, with a further 3 months' grace period given via application. So altogether 15 months given for a new flight to take off, otherwise the airline will lose the rights (barring the case of delays caused by irresistible external force at no fault of the airline itself)
 
Nami
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Re: Helsinki in vogue: Tibet Airlines to fly to HEL from Lhasa via Jinan in April, followed by CZ/HO from CAN/PVG later

Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:00 pm

Zoedyn wrote:
I believe all these three routes to HEL are 99% likely to happen this year (barring unforeseen irresistibles like epidemic outbreak, political crisis) as they each hold a ton of significance to the respective carriers


Well 66.67% of these routes have now been confirmed also at the Matka Nordic Travel Fair in Helsinki. Or should I write announce, as Juneyao Airlines has chosen to publish the news before securing final approval from CAAC. Although Finnair signed an MoU with Juneyao at the end of last year there's no word from AY anywhere at this moment in time, but that's most likely because AY doesn't want to issue a press release for something that's still in the teeth of the Chinese authorities. Or could just be that the details of the co-operation are still under negotiation.

Preliminary schedule of HO's PVG-HEL flights:

HO1608 PVG0055 - HEL0600
HO1607 HEL1420 - PVG0420 (+1)

Finavia: New airline for Helsinki Airport - Juneyao Air launches flights from Shanghai
 
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Re: Helsinki in vogue: Tibet Airlines to fly to HEL from Lhasa via Jinan in April, followed by CZ/HO from CAN/PVG later

Sat Feb 02, 2019 8:41 pm

According to Airlineroute, Juneyao Airlines will commence its daily PVG–HEL service on 28 June 2019. This new service gives a nice increase in the total passenger volume on the route if HO's load factor is high.

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QuawerAir
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Re: Helsinki in vogue: Tibet Airlines to fly to HEL from Lhasa via Jinan in April, followed by CZ/HO from CAN/PVG later

Tue Apr 09, 2019 5:24 am

Tibet Airlines has successfully launched Jinan-Helsinki service with PLF of around 90%, approximately 250 passengers onboard. According to Tibet Airlines' country manager Liu Yukun, flights are nearly sold out in April and May. Given that flights are only bookable in China, the performance is pretty impressive.

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Less than 3 months until Juneyao Air launches PVG-HEL route. No news about China Southern...
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justinlee
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Re: Helsinki in vogue: Tibet Airlines to fly to HEL from Lhasa via Jinan in April, followed by CZ/HO from CAN/PVG later

Tue Apr 09, 2019 11:17 am

Impressive that TV really made it... But it's really a waste of resource that they only use these 333 in short domestic flights before.
 
flyfresno
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Re: Helsinki in vogue: Tibet Airlines to fly to HEL from Lhasa via Jinan in April, followed by CZ/HO from CAN/PVG later

Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:35 pm

I’m guessing with the permit restrictions, we won’t see int’l flights out of Tibet any time soon? I’m assuming ICN, TYO, HKG, and SIN would all be in the cards otherwise, plus maybe some LCC service to KUL and/or BKK/DMK?
 
EvanWSFO
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Re: Helsinki in vogue: Tibet Airlines to fly to HEL from Lhasa via Jinan in April, followed by CZ/HO from CAN/PVG later

Tue Apr 09, 2019 5:45 pm

chunhimlai wrote:
A signal to avoid visiting Finland


Because...?
I have been on this site 15 years. A unrecoverable email account led me to starting over. Those of you who call me a rookie, you may stop ok?
 
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QuawerAir
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Re: Helsinki in vogue: Tibet Airlines to fly to HEL from Lhasa via Jinan in April, followed by CZ/HO from CAN/PVG later

Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:04 am

Sichuan Airlines joins in: CAAC reported Sichuan has applied for 2 weekly Chengdu – Helsinki service from August 2019. Juneyao Airlines seems to operate to HEL 4x weekly during the winter season and furthermore, both airlines seem to be willing to use 5th freedom rights (from HEL I believe)

Airlineroute
ATL, AYT, FRA, FUE, HEL, JFK, LCA, LHR, MUC | AY, BA, DL, FH, LH, LO | A320, A321, A333, 752, 764, 772, 788
The word "Quawer" means nothing but it looks great.
 
xiaotung
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Re: Helsinki in vogue: Tibet Airlines to fly to HEL from Lhasa via Jinan in April, followed by CZ/HO from CAN/PVG later

Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:16 am

QuawerAir wrote:
Sichuan Airlines joins in: CAAC reported Sichuan has applied for 2 weekly Chengdu – Helsinki service from August 2019. Juneyao Airlines seems to operate to HEL 4x weekly during the winter season and furthermore, both airlines seem to be willing to use 5th freedom rights (from HEL I believe)

Airlineroute


HO has applied for 5th freedom to extend HEL to MAN after losing rights to PVG-LHR route to CA.
 
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QuawerAir
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Re: Helsinki in vogue: Tibet Airlines to fly to HEL from Lhasa via Jinan in April, followed by CZ/HO from CAN/PVG later

Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:32 am

xiaotung wrote:
QuawerAir wrote:
Sichuan Airlines joins in: CAAC reported Sichuan has applied for 2 weekly Chengdu – Helsinki service from August 2019. Juneyao Airlines seems to operate to HEL 4x weekly during the winter season and furthermore, both airlines seem to be willing to use 5th freedom rights (from HEL I believe)

Airlineroute


HO has applied for 5th freedom to extend HEL to MAN after losing rights to PVG-LHR route to CA.

That's interesting, thanks! Do you know if Juneyao actually plans to fly to HEL 4x weekly (instead of daily) during the winter or is it only for possible PVG-HEL-MAN sector?
ATL, AYT, FRA, FUE, HEL, JFK, LCA, LHR, MUC | AY, BA, DL, FH, LH, LO | A320, A321, A333, 752, 764, 772, 788
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xiaotung
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Re: Helsinki in vogue: Tibet Airlines to fly to HEL from Lhasa via Jinan in April, followed by CZ/HO from CAN/PVG later

Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:48 am

QuawerAir wrote:
xiaotung wrote:
QuawerAir wrote:
Sichuan Airlines joins in: CAAC reported Sichuan has applied for 2 weekly Chengdu – Helsinki service from August 2019. Juneyao Airlines seems to operate to HEL 4x weekly during the winter season and furthermore, both airlines seem to be willing to use 5th freedom rights (from HEL I believe)

Airlineroute


HO has applied for 5th freedom to extend HEL to MAN after losing rights to PVG-LHR route to CA.

That's interesting, thanks! Do you know if Juneyao actually plans to fly to HEL 4x weekly (instead of daily) during the winter or is it only for possible PVG-HEL-MAN sector?


The way I read it is 4x is only for MAN with the other 3x terminating at HEL.
 
SeanM1997
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Re: Helsinki in vogue: Tibet Airlines to fly to HEL from Lhasa via Jinan in April, followed by CZ/HO from CAN/PVG later

Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:13 pm

Does anybody have a source for the Manchester extension?
 
workhorse
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Re: Helsinki in vogue: Tibet Airlines to fly to HEL from Lhasa via Jinan in April, followed by CZ/HO from CAN/PVG later

Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:12 pm

Nami wrote:
Preliminary schedule of HO's PVG-HEL flights:

HO1608 PVG0055 - HEL0600
HO1607 HEL1420 - PVG0420 (+1)


Very weird schedule. They don't have any connections to catch in Helsinki, so why do they need to be there at 6am? And then sit on the ground at a foreign port for 8+ hours only to go back to Shanghai at an even more inconvenient time.


Why not leave Shanghai in the afternoon (e.g. 5pm), be in HEL in the evening (10pm) then leave at midnight and be back home in the early afternoon (2pm)? That would still leave reasonable connection opportunities at PVG and provide a nice (787 notwithstanding) alternative to Finnair.
 
seansasLCY
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Re: Helsinki in vogue: Tibet Airlines to fly to HEL from Lhasa via Jinan in April, followed by CZ/HO from CAN/PVG later

Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:38 pm

workhorse wrote:
Nami wrote:
Preliminary schedule of HO's PVG-HEL flights:

HO1608 PVG0055 - HEL0600
HO1607 HEL1420 - PVG0420 (+1)


Very weird schedule. They don't have any connections to catch in Helsinki, so why do they need to be there at 6am? And then sit on the ground at a foreign port for 8+ hours only to go back to Shanghai at an even more inconvenient time.


Why not leave Shanghai in the afternoon (e.g. 5pm), be in HEL in the evening (10pm) then leave at midnight and be back home in the early afternoon (2pm)? That would still leave reasonable connection opportunities at PVG and provide a nice (787 notwithstanding) alternative to Finnair.


Given they have applied for HEL-MAN that is probably part of the reasons for the schedule. It allows a short run in between.
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: Helsinki in vogue: Tibet Airlines to fly to HEL from Lhasa via Jinan in April, followed by CZ/HO from CAN/PVG later

Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:53 pm

One of the things to remember about the People's Republic: just because it is called "China Southern", doesn't mean that it is exclusive to southern China. Further, Hainan Airlines isn't based in Hainan - it's flying from other parts of China as well.

I have fallen into the trap of that misconception.

I too believed that "Tibet Air" would be flying Lhasa to Helsinki non-stop. Nope, it isn't. It would be no different than if Air China did the same Lhasa-Beijing-Europe flight. Only the name is weird.

But then again, in the U.S., Southwest isn't only in the southwest.

Directional and location names for airlines are confusing.
 
workhorse
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Re: Helsinki in vogue: Tibet Airlines to fly to HEL from Lhasa via Jinan in April, followed by CZ/HO from CAN/PVG later

Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:29 pm

seansasLCY wrote:
workhorse wrote:
Nami wrote:
Preliminary schedule of HO's PVG-HEL flights:

HO1608 PVG0055 - HEL0600
HO1607 HEL1420 - PVG0420 (+1)


Very weird schedule. They don't have any connections to catch in Helsinki, so why do they need to be there at 6am? And then sit on the ground at a foreign port for 8+ hours only to go back to Shanghai at an even more inconvenient time.


Why not leave Shanghai in the afternoon (e.g. 5pm), be in HEL in the evening (10pm) then leave at midnight and be back home in the early afternoon (2pm)? That would still leave reasonable connection opportunities at PVG and provide a nice (787 notwithstanding) alternative to Finnair.


Given they have applied for HEL-MAN that is probably part of the reasons for the schedule. It allows a short run in between.


Oh, yes, of course. I overlooked it. I guess you're right.

However, it remains to be seen if it's better to serve two destinations with an inconvenient schedule rather than one destination with a good one.
 
workhorse
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Re: Helsinki in vogue: Tibet Airlines to fly to HEL from Lhasa via Jinan in April, followed by CZ/HO from CAN/PVG later

Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:57 pm

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
But then again, in the U.S., Southwest isn't only in the southwest.


Well, Delta originally was for "Mississippi Delta". :)
 
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Re: Helsinki in vogue: Tibet Airlines to fly to HEL from Lhasa via Jinan in April, followed by CZ/HO from CAN/PVG later

Thu Apr 18, 2019 12:27 am

workhorse wrote:
PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
But then again, in the U.S., Southwest isn't only in the southwest.


Well, Delta originally was for "Mississippi Delta". :)


Yup!! Very true!!

And the joy of explaining to people that "Northwest" in the U.S. refers in actuality to the Northwest Territory of 1787, not the Pacific Northwest, which is covered by Alaska Airlines.

And fabulous Alaska Airlines. Biggest hub at Seattle, in Washington. However, AS does cover Alaska.

Didn't realize what I'd started here!
 
ShanghaiNoon
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Re: Helsinki in vogue: Tibet Airlines to fly to HEL from Lhasa via Jinan in April, followed by CZ/HO from CAN/PVG later

Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:12 am

flyfresno wrote:
I’m guessing with the permit restrictions, we won’t see int’l flights out of Tibet any time soon? I’m assuming ICN, TYO, HKG, and SIN would all be in the cards otherwise, plus maybe some LCC service to KUL and/or BKK/DMK?


We already do. Sichuan Airlines operates an A319 daily to Kathmandu.
 
Cathay777300ER
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Re: Helsinki in vogue: Tibet Airlines to fly to HEL from Lhasa via Jinan in April, followed by CZ/HO from CAN/PVG later

Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:52 pm

workhorse wrote:
seansasLCY wrote:
workhorse wrote:

Very weird schedule. They don't have any connections to catch in Helsinki, so why do they need to be there at 6am? And then sit on the ground at a foreign port for 8+ hours only to go back to Shanghai at an even more inconvenient time.


Why not leave Shanghai in the afternoon (e.g. 5pm), be in HEL in the evening (10pm) then leave at midnight and be back home in the early afternoon (2pm)? That would still leave reasonable connection opportunities at PVG and provide a nice (787 notwithstanding) alternative to Finnair.


Given they have applied for HEL-MAN that is probably part of the reasons for the schedule. It allows a short run in between.


Oh, yes, of course. I overlooked it. I guess you're right.

However, it remains to be seen if it's better to serve two destinations with an inconvenient schedule rather than one destination with a good one.


These flights are in line with the majority of East Asia-Europe flight times. I'm surprised it leaves at 14 and not a bit later to arrive back in Shanghai at 6. I would also say that this is an not inconvenient time as it works well for businessmen getting full days in both destinations.
 
workhorse
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Re: Helsinki in vogue: Tibet Airlines to fly to HEL from Lhasa via Jinan in April, followed by CZ/HO from CAN/PVG later

Fri Apr 19, 2019 12:01 pm

Cathay777300ER wrote:
These flights are in line with the majority of East Asia-Europe flight times. I'm surprised it leaves at 14 and not a bit later to arrive back in Shanghai at 6. I would also say that this is an not inconvenient time as it works well for businessmen getting full days in both destinations.


Originally, I wanted to write something like "No one, except a few psychopathic business people wants to arrive in the wee hours after a long haul flight" but I restrained myself. :grin:

I have flown HEL-PVG in business. The scheduled flight time is 8h50m and most often it arrives early. Deduce the dinner/breakfast time, the taxiing time etc and you're left with at best 6 hours of sleep in a not-so-comfortable environment (not because the Finnair J seat is bad but because any J class seat will never be as good as a real bed and because you're surrounded by a couple of dozens of strangers). You don't do a good day's work after arriving like that.

Some people do it because it makes them "look good" in the eyes of their bosses / employees / clients ("see how busy I am and how I use every opportunity to optimize my time") and most people because the airlines give them no choice.
 
c933103
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Re: Helsinki in vogue: Tibet Airlines to fly to HEL from Lhasa via Jinan in April, followed by CZ/HO from CAN/PVG later

Fri Apr 19, 2019 12:36 pm

It seems like CZ's application also say they will utilize fifth freedom right, where will they be heading to?
Say NO to Hong Kong police's cooperation with criminal organizations like triad.
 
SeanM1997
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Re: Helsinki in vogue: Tibet Airlines to fly to HEL from Lhasa via Jinan in April, followed by CZ/HO from CAN/PVG later

Fri Apr 19, 2019 2:11 pm

c933103 wrote:
It seems like CZ's application also say they will utilize fifth freedom right, where will they be heading to?


Whats the China Southern application?
 
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QuawerAir
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Re: Helsinki in vogue: Tibet Airlines to fly to HEL from Lhasa via Jinan in April, followed by CZ/HO from CAN/PVG later

Fri Apr 19, 2019 2:18 pm

SeanM1997 wrote:
c933103 wrote:
It seems like CZ's application also say they will utilize fifth freedom right, where will they be heading to?


Whats the China Southern application?

CZ applied for daily CAN-HEL route from 1 July 2019 in November 2018. To be honest, I thought HEL was out of their route planning table for this year, but I'd be extremely happy if they are still coming to HEL. Regarding the 5th freedom rights, CZ also plans to arrive at other European airports such as CPH and MAD, so could they be heading there?
Last edited by QuawerAir on Fri Apr 19, 2019 2:37 pm, edited 4 times in total.
ATL, AYT, FRA, FUE, HEL, JFK, LCA, LHR, MUC | AY, BA, DL, FH, LH, LO | A320, A321, A333, 752, 764, 772, 788
The word "Quawer" means nothing but it looks great.
 
workhorse
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Re: Helsinki in vogue: Tibet Airlines to fly to HEL from Lhasa via Jinan in April, followed by CZ/HO from CAN/PVG later

Fri Apr 19, 2019 2:18 pm

SeanM1997 wrote:
c933103 wrote:
It seems like CZ's application also say they will utilize fifth freedom right, where will they be heading to?


Whats the China Southern application?


CAN-HEL, starting about at the same time as Juneyao's PVG-HEL.

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