fastmover
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JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:00 pm

Since it seemed like the network thread was going this way, I wanted to start one to talk about our JetBlue and what has happened.

This isn’t just a management bash fest it’s more about how the company is being run these days.

A few years ago there were no unions now there are two and active drives are in place for other workgroups. The west coast strategy is pretty much dead after the LGB customs fail and the VA merger fail. The JD power award is long gone. We still don’t have any type of guidance from management abut the direction of the company. The stock continues to trail other airlines and on time is close to the bottom. Is this all sustainable and is this the new reality of JetBlue?
 
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SierraPacific
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:04 pm

I do think that a merger is in the future of JetBlue. I do not see how this type of nongrowth and also bad on-time performance could be sustained in the modern aviation marketplace.
 
fastmover
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:11 pm

SierraPacific wrote:
I do think that a merger is in the future of JetBlue. I do not see how this type of nongrowth and also bad on-time performance could be sustained in the modern aviation marketplace.



There is growth and a bunch of planes coming but from the inside (this isn’t drama) we have a hard time managing the current operations. They want to be an airline but just don’t want to support it.
 
stlgph
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:17 pm

SierraPacific wrote:
I do think that a merger is in the future of JetBlue. I do not see how this type of nongrowth and also bad on-time performance could be sustained in the modern aviation marketplace.


Don't worry about growth. Just get the basics right.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
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enilria
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:28 pm

First, even though I hate it...it's just a matter of time till they merge with AS. I wouldn't be surprised if it was announced 4Q 2019.

I think B6 suffers from the same problem that Frontier (2000-2008, and arguably to 2012) suffered from. A desperate inferiority complex about being an LCC and an insatiable desire to be a legacy. Every strategy B6 has pursued has been toward the goal of being a legacy and not an LCC. The problem with that strategy is that it only leads to a merger. Maybe any strategy leads to a merger in this industry, but there is no end game for pursuing the current strategy without a merger. They cannot get big enough organically to support the infrastructure costs of being a real legacy. JetBlue is focused on things like corporate contracts, premium suites, market share, code shares, and hub dominance. These are all legacy carrier strategies. F9 always wanted to be UA. They thought UA would go Ch7 and they would inherit Denver as the newer legacy. Pipe dream. I'm not sure if B6 even has an end game. I think they realize the only outcome of their current strategy is to merge with Alaska. Yes, they could possibly merge with Southwest, but I would hope as the largest domestic carrier, Southwest would not be allowed to merge with anybody. Plus, B6 is a massively better fit with AS for what I think are obvious reasons.

B6 is constructed to be a merger partner. Let's compare why they are in a different league than NK or F9, and have little in common.

Real estate assets:
B6 has a massively valuable gate and slot portfolio at JFK/LGA/BOS/DCA, etc.
F9 has basically nothing with any value besides DCA-DEN which has transfer restrictions.
NK has a few LGA slots, and gates in FLL. Pretty much nothing of serious value to anybody else.

Corporate Contracts/Passenger Loyalty
B6 has this in spades in BOS. Somewhat in NYC and DCA/FLL.
NK has almost zero value in this area.
F9 is similar.

On the plus side, they built the value of the company's real assets to be much greater than NK/F9. On the down side, this lack of hard assets forced NK/F9 to be ULCCs that derive market cap from earnings driven by low costs and not hard assets. So in that respect B6 has watched over the shareholders well, but they are up against a wall. They only really have two organic options going forward a) Atlantic (which they probably waited far too long to do) and b) go gamble the company on a hub in a place like Austin (but they won't with the taste of blood in their mouth from LGB). BTW, I saw BZN-LGB over the holidays selling for $149 RT, so that's not saving the company. LOL

The arrival of unions is something they probably have a love-hate relationship with. Some part of B6 probably considers this another sign of arriving as a legacy. The die was cast when they kept the HQ in NYC, and not MCO. One of many decisions that pushed up costs in favor of a legacy brand structure.
 
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seabosdca
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:47 pm

Why would AS want to merge with B6 and inherit all the issues you are describing? AS is still digesting the VX merger and has plenty of opportunities for organic growth on the West Coast. The most attractive merger partner for AS would be HA, not B6.

I think B6's future plans should be to the East Coast as AS is to the West Coast. Keep going after NYC business, beef up Florida, look for more Eastern focus cities, and fly to national destinations with the idea of cementing the East Coast customer base further in place. In short, try to rattle the cages of AA and DL in those markets the way AS is trying to do to WN in California.
 
nine4nine
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:47 pm

I posted this on another B6 thread but find it appropriate here as well.

Wow whiners out in full effect. We get it. Management at B6 has issues starting from the top. AA has the same issues with Doug Parker. It happens.

But your attitudes and moral have a huge effect on your operations wether you see it or not. You can’t blame the issues solely on management but on yourselves as well. You are part of the problem. If you have a chip on your shoulder with your employer you may not see it, but guaranteed it is shown in your demeanor around your customers or in your work performance. Rather than bitch and moan, why don’t you take pride in your company, be a standout and better yourselves and have a positive attitude. If that’s passed through the rest of the employees you can help tip the scales to a more favorable outlook for B6 and offset what management lacks.

You all have a job, benefits, and health insurance. Take a look at those less fortunate and out looking for jobs and wondering how to pay the next rent payment or grocery tab. If you don’t change your attitudes you may well be joining them soon.

And before any of you blast me, I’ve been in the industry. I’ve been laid off both pre911 and post911 from airlines and lost everything I’ve owned in my life both times. My first lay-off, both my employees and myself saw the writing on the wall and our morale was in the toilet and we didn’t give a shit at that point and that sped things faster to demise. Be grateful for what you have, find ways to make the work situation better, because if you don’t, tomorrow may not have something to offer you.
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nine4nine
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:52 pm

seabosdca wrote:
Why would AS want to merge with B6 and inherit all the issues you are describing? AS is still digesting the VX merger and has plenty of opportunities for organic growth on the West Coast. The most attractive merger partner for AS would be HA, not B6.

I think B6's future plans should be to the East Coast as AS is to the West Coast. Keep going after NYC business, beef up Florida, look for more Eastern focus cities, and fly to national destinations with the idea of cementing the East Coast customer base further in place. In short, try to rattle the cages of AA and DL in those markets the way AS is trying to do to WN in California.


Agreed. AS has butchered the VX product which actually made a nice relaxed flying experience. They’ve dumped or cut back substantially many of the VX routes and incorporated the boring lackluster cabin offerings.

IF a marriage between AS and B6 were to ever transpire let’s hope the B6 name and service would be the overpowering factors. Nobody thinks Alaska when flying east-west or Caribbean and vice versa.
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AA94
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Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2011 1:37 am

Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:54 pm

fastmover wrote:
Since it seemed like the network thread was going this way, I wanted to start one to talk about our JetBlue and what has happened.

This isn’t just a management bash fest it’s more about how the company is being run these days.

A few years ago there were no unions now there are two and active drives are in place for other workgroups. The west coast strategy is pretty much dead after the LGB customs fail and the VA merger fail. The JD power award is long gone. We still don’t have any type of guidance from management abut the direction of the company. The stock continues to trail other airlines and on time is close to the bottom. Is this all sustainable and is this the new reality of JetBlue?


The west coast strategy in its previous form is dead, yes. But you can't force the LGB NIMBYs to want an FIS or want lots of route options. They chose not to want it, and now they're going to lose it. While it's unfortunate for JetBlue's growth trajectory, it's not really a result of corporate mismanagement. There's nowhere else to grow on the west coast right now -- LAX is tapped out, BUR can't support 321 flying (otherwise I think we'd see Mint there), and every other major hub is rife with competition from some combination of the legacies and AS/WN/F9. These sorts of competitive pressures are something that no airline will ever be able to totally foresee and avoid.


enilria wrote:
B6 is constructed to be a merger partner. Let's compare why they are in a different league than NK or F9, and have little in common.

Real estate assets:
B6 has a massively valuable gate and slot portfolio at JFK/LGA/BOS/DCA, etc.
F9 has basically nothing with any value besides DCA-DEN which has transfer restrictions.
NK has a few LGA slots, and gates in FLL. Pretty much nothing of serious value to anybody else.

Corporate Contracts/Passenger Loyalty
B6 has this in spades in BOS. Somewhat in NYC and DCA/FLL.
NK has almost zero value in this area.
F9 is similar.

On the plus side, they built the value of the company's real assets to be much greater than NK/F9. On the down side, this lack of hard assets forced NK/F9 to be ULCCs that derive market cap from earnings driven by low costs and not hard assets. So in that respect B6 has watched over the shareholders well, but they are up against a wall. They only really have two organic options going forward a) Atlantic (which they probably waited far too long to do) and b) go gamble the company on a hub in a place like Austin (but they won't with the taste of blood in their mouth from LGB).


I think this hits the nail on the head. JetBlue's eyes are bigger than it's stomach in some areas, and the focus on building the operation has driven an increase in CASM that has outpaced cost. Lots of folks on this site love to crow about how JetBlue is constantly on the brink of death because they bring nothing to the table, but as you aptly point out they bring a plethora of assets that would be a huge boon to whoever (if anyone) was to acquire them.
 
Flaps
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:54 pm

I'll agree with most of what Enilria stated above about wanting to be a legacy and having costs that go with that strategy. I do not however want to see ANY more mergers. We have too many mega carriers in the US as it is. I think their best strategy is to swallow the bitter pill of reality and start becoming a first rate ULCC instead of a second rate legacy. Network wise they can't compete with the US3 and WN. They could however, if they could get their cost structure down sufficiently, make a serious run at NK and F9. There is nothing inherently wrong with having an east coast centric route structure, particularly since what they have already ties in well with the major west coast cities. They do however have to differentiate themselves and by that I don't mean unpredictable on time service, high costs, backtracking connections and mediocre at best service.
 
flyguy84
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:56 pm

I feel JetBlue is setting itself up for an acquisition. I don't believe its going to be with Alaska.
SFO
 
stevemat11
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:16 pm

flyguy84 wrote:
I feel JetBlue is setting itself up for an acquisition. I don't believe its going to be with Alaska.


+1
 
fastmover
Topic Author
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Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 5:37 pm

Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:16 pm

nine4nine wrote:
I posted this on another B6 thread but find it appropriate here as well.

Wow whiners out in full effect. We get it. Management at B6 has issues starting from the top. AA has the same issues with Doug Parker. It happens.

But your attitudes and moral have a huge effect on your operations wether you see it or not. You can’t blame the issues solely on management but on yourselves as well. You are part of the problem. If you have a chip on your shoulder with your employer you may not see it, but guaranteed it is shown in your demeanor around your customers or in your work performance. Rather than bitch and moan, why don’t you take pride in your company, be a standout and better yourselves and have a positive attitude. If that’s passed through the rest of the employees you can help tip the scales to a more favorable outlook for B6 and offset what management lacks.

You all have a job, benefits, and health insurance. Take a look at those less fortunate and out looking for jobs and wondering how to pay the next rent payment or grocery tab. If you don’t change your attitudes you may well be joining them soon.

And before any of you blast me, I’ve been in the industry. I’ve been laid off both pre911 and post911 from airlines and lost everything I’ve owned in my life both times. My first lay-off, both my employees and myself saw the writing on the wall and our morale was in the toilet and we didn’t give a shit at that point and that sped things faster to demise. Be grateful for what you have, find ways to make the work situation better, because if you don’t, tomorrow may not have something to offer you.




Yeah way to start out. Maybe you should be in management here. You just discount everything and call us whiners. Actually the vast majority of the employees are what is holding this company together. You don’t work here so you don’t see it. Again you don’t see us talking about making more money it’s about the current operations at jetblue and if that can be sustained. But sure we are just whiners. It’s the pride issue that you are confused about. I do have pride in my company but I grow tired of apologizing everyday because jetblue refuses to overblock flights and does 27 min turns with crew swaps, because we want max utilization. Great but don’t pretend you care about on time. Management doesn’t have to stand there as people get off and say can’t you guys ever be on time. How about walking through the terminal on Christmas having a passengers ask if you could fly them home because their flight is delayed 5 hours due to lack of pilots? The company won’t staff properly. It happened look at twitter look at our on time. How does one have pride in that? I am far from a whiner I love my company but I know we can’t keep going like this.
Last edited by fastmover on Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
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Dieuwer
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:19 pm

Next time someone claims JetBlue is a LCC, they should post CASM numbers.
 
IPFreely
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:25 pm

nine4nine wrote:
Agreed. AS has butchered the VX product which actually made a nice relaxed flying experience.


I think you meant to write “AS has butchered the VX product which actually made a highly unprofitable airline.”

The VX nostalgia crowd always forgets that detail.
 
Swadian
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:27 pm

flyguy84 wrote:
I feel JetBlue is setting itself up for an acquisition. I don't believe its going to be with Alaska.


If B6 has the same management rift as AA has with merger-happy Doug Parker, I wouldn't be shocked to see B6 merge with AA. After all, Doug Parker is the only major airline CEO who's essentially dedicated his entire career to mergers.
John Wang, Founder and President of Inland Streamliner.
 
Flighty
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:27 pm

enilria wrote:
First, even though I hate it...it's just a matter of time till they merge with AS. I wouldn't be surprised if it was announced 4Q 2019.

I think B6 suffers from the same problem that Frontier (2000-2008, and arguably to 2012) suffered from. A desperate inferiority complex about being an LCC and an insatiable desire to be a legacy. Every strategy B6 has pursued has been toward the goal of being a legacy and not an LCC. The problem with that strategy is that it only leads to a merger. Maybe any strategy leads to a merger in this industry, but there is no end game for pursuing the current strategy without a merger. They cannot get big enough organically to support the infrastructure costs of being a real legacy. JetBlue is focused on things like corporate contracts, premium suites, market share, code shares, and hub dominance. These are all legacy carrier strategies. F9 always wanted to be UA. They thought UA would go Ch7 and they would inherit Denver as the newer legacy. Pipe dream. I'm not sure if B6 even has an end game. I think they realize the only outcome of their current strategy is to merge with Alaska. Yes, they could possibly merge with Southwest, but I would hope as the largest domestic carrier, Southwest would not be allowed to merge with anybody. Plus, B6 is a massively better fit with AS for what I think are obvious reasons.

B6 is constructed to be a merger partner. Let's compare why they are in a different league than NK or F9, and have little in common.

Real estate assets:
B6 has a massively valuable gate and slot portfolio at JFK/LGA/BOS/DCA, etc.
F9 has basically nothing with any value besides DCA-DEN which has transfer restrictions.
NK has a few LGA slots, and gates in FLL. Pretty much nothing of serious value to anybody else.

Corporate Contracts/Passenger Loyalty
B6 has this in spades in BOS. Somewhat in NYC and DCA/FLL.
NK has almost zero value in this area.
F9 is similar.

On the plus side, they built the value of the company's real assets to be much greater than NK/F9. On the down side, this lack of hard assets forced NK/F9 to be ULCCs that derive market cap from earnings driven by low costs and not hard assets. So in that respect B6 has watched over the shareholders well, but they are up against a wall. They only really have two organic options going forward a) Atlantic (which they probably waited far too long to do) and b) go gamble the company on a hub in a place like Austin (but they won't with the taste of blood in their mouth from LGB). BTW, I saw BZN-LGB over the holidays selling for $149 RT, so that's not saving the company. LOL

The arrival of unions is something they probably have a love-hate relationship with. Some part of B6 probably considers this another sign of arriving as a legacy. The die was cast when they kept the HQ in NYC, and not MCO. One of many decisions that pushed up costs in favor of a legacy brand structure.


AS-B6 makes sense. They each need what the other has. I don't see how that can be denied. If they are going to "rattle the cages" of the legacies as enilria says, they are in a better position to do that as a team.
Last edited by Flighty on Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
nine4nine
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:31 pm

IPFreely wrote:
nine4nine wrote:
Agreed. AS has butchered the VX product which actually made a nice relaxed flying experience.


I think you meant to write “AS has butchered the VX product which actually made a highly unprofitable airline.”

The VX nostalgia crowd always forgets that detail.



I think what you meant to write was that VX management and overly high aircraft lease rates made VX unprofitable not the “nostalgic service”.
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nine4nine
Posts: 478
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:39 pm

fastmover wrote:
nine4nine wrote:
I posted this on another B6 thread but find it appropriate here as well.

Wow whiners out in full effect. We get it. Management at B6 has issues starting from the top. AA has the same issues with Doug Parker. It happens.

But your attitudes and moral have a huge effect on your operations wether you see it or not. You can’t blame the issues solely on management but on yourselves as well. You are part of the problem. If you have a chip on your shoulder with your employer you may not see it, but guaranteed it is shown in your demeanor around your customers or in your work performance. Rather than bitch and moan, why don’t you take pride in your company, be a standout and better yourselves and have a positive attitude. If that’s passed through the rest of the employees you can help tip the scales to a more favorable outlook for B6 and offset what management lacks.

You all have a job, benefits, and health insurance. Take a look at those less fortunate and out looking for jobs and wondering how to pay the next rent payment or grocery tab. If you don’t change your attitudes you may well be joining them soon.

And before any of you blast me, I’ve been in the industry. I’ve been laid off both pre911 and post911 from airlines and lost everything I’ve owned in my life both times. My first lay-off, both my employees and myself saw the writing on the wall and our morale was in the toilet and we didn’t give a shit at that point and that sped things faster to demise. Be grateful for what you have, find ways to make the work situation better, because if you don’t, tomorrow may not have something to offer you.




Yeah way to start out. Maybe you should be in management here. You just discount everything and call us whiners. Actually the vast majority of the employees are what is holding this company together. You don’t work here so you don’t see it. Again you don’t see us talking about making more money it’s about the current operations at jetblue and if that can be sustained. But sure we are just whiners. It’s the pride issue that you are confused about. I do have pride in my company but I grow tired of apologizing everyday because jetblue refuses to overblock flights and does 27 min turns with crew swaps, because we want max utilization. Great but don’t pretend you care about on time. Management doesn’t have to stand there as people get off and say can’t you guys ever be on time. How about walking through the terminal on Christmas having a passengers ask if you could fly them home because their flight is delayed 5 hours due to lack of pilots? The company won’t staff properly. It happened look at twitter look at our on time. How does one have pride in that? I am far from a whiner I love my company but I know we can’t keep going like this.



And kudos to the staff for being the glue still holding the operation together. However my point is once that glue breaks down you guys are in big trouble. Have you and your fellow employees drafted a letter of concern to the board of directors?

As someone who flies B6 VERY regularly for business and helps pay your paycheck the attitude and lack of energy, enthusiasm, and culture that made B6 a legendary name is very apparent from check in to in flight service. Granted it’s not bad by any means but it’s very noticeable. Once you lose that, anyone can offer you a drink a snack and a personal seatback TV. My point is attitude and work ethic should not be compromised because of disgust or annoyance with management. You are the front line, the face of the company that the public interacts with. The people who take the heat and anger from the public for inept management decisions. But if the employees show they are miserable,unhappy coupled with poor management the days of B6 will become few.
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enilria
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:39 pm

AA94 wrote:
I think this hits the nail on the head. JetBlue's eyes are bigger than it's stomach in some areas, and the focus on building the operation has driven an increase in CASM that has outpaced cost. Lots of folks on this site love to crow about how JetBlue is constantly on the brink of death because they bring nothing to the table, but as you aptly point out they bring a plethora of assets that would be a huge boon to whoever (if anyone) was to acquire them.

To be clear, I don't think they are anywhere near death. They could survive forever. Hell, F9 is still around. I'm just saying they will be boxed in with few options to maintain any real expansion efforts.They would basically be in neutral. One could argue that HA has been in that position forever and they are still around. Before Delta came to town they could have basically grown as BOS grew which would be slow going, but now DL is also pushing them toward a merger with AS because both AS and B6 corporate customers have DL sales people offering them a national and even global deal that B6 and AS can't come close to matching. It won't happen quickly, and DL could lose so much in the short-term that they give up, but if DL keeps underwriting the costs to burrow in to BOS it will end up like SEA is headed with DL siphoning off most of the large Fortune 500s corporates. Those are the ones who provide the yield to take the $99 people in the back.
Flighty wrote:
AS-B6 makes sense. They each need what the other has. I don't see how that can be denied.

BUT, I still don't want it to happen. I just don't see how it doesn't. The idiot DOJ created this by allowing too many carriers to merge. Once you have 3-4 mega-carriers, everybody else is shafted. Too much breadth of product to offer corporate customers that can't be matched. It was a dumb move, although you can argue the DOJ has allowed this throughout the whole economy. It's all broken. We need an era of trust-busting. If they go after Amazon they shouldn't stop there.
 
evank516
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:40 pm

The biggest thing I've noticed about jetBlue over the past three years was there terrible on time performance. I say three years because the last three years saw me flying jetBlue more than any other time period in my life, or theirs since I'm older than jetBlue itself. This past year, I saw them announce the closure of three stations in one day. Never saw that happen before. Yes, they've closed stations in the past, but I don't recall them ever announcing three closures in one day. Maybe two when they closed CMH and BNA back in the 2000s, but now BNA is back on their route map. They didn't really have a reputation for that.

Old jetBlue they ain't what they used to be.
 
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enilria
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:46 pm

evank516 wrote:
The biggest thing I've noticed about jetBlue over the past three years was there terrible on time performance.

I don't think that was really their fault. The Northeast has just gone to hell in terms of operational reliability. I don't know the reasons why it got so much worse, but Delta is just as bad at LGA and AA at DCA. Flying out of either airport in the afternoon is a death sentence. It's just that because B6 is almost all Northeast it takes down the whole airline, whereas DL has so much network breadth that it's a relatively small % of the whole and they can use the rest of the network to try to fix problems.
 
evank516
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:53 pm

enilria wrote:
evank516 wrote:
The biggest thing I've noticed about jetBlue over the past three years was there terrible on time performance.

I don't think that was really their fault. The Northeast has just gone to hell in terms of operational reliability. I don't know the reasons why it got so much worse, but Delta is just as bad at LGA and AA at DCA. Flying out of either airport in the afternoon is a death sentence. It's just that because B6 is almost all Northeast it takes down the whole airline, whereas DL has so much network breadth that it's a relatively small % of the whole and they can use the rest of the network to try to fix problems.


I've actually had better reliability flying Delta out of both LGA and JFK in the same time period than I have on jetBlue. I can only speak from personal experience since I don't work for an airline. In fact, I've had more on time flights out of LaGuardia in the evening than I've had out of JFK in the morning.
 
N649DL
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:57 pm

seabosdca wrote:
Why would AS want to merge with B6 and inherit all the issues you are describing? AS is still digesting the VX merger and has plenty of opportunities for organic growth on the West Coast. The most attractive merger partner for AS would be HA, not B6.

I think B6's future plans should be to the East Coast as AS is to the West Coast. Keep going after NYC business, beef up Florida, look for more Eastern focus cities, and fly to national destinations with the idea of cementing the East Coast customer base further in place. In short, try to rattle the cages of AA and DL in those markets the way AS is trying to do to WN in California.


Is the sky really falling out at B6 these days?

Personally, I'm all for B6 merging with UAL. They get a true southern hub, major Int'l presence (thanks to UAL), and would get back JFK. If it ever were to happen they'd have to release gates at EWR I'm sure.
 
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Super80Fan
Posts: 1514
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:04 pm

A few years ago I was the biggest B6 fanboy ever, as they got me back into my love of flying. Once I took my first flight with them December 2007 I was hooked. For the few years after the fact, I flew nothing but B6. I praised them online and went after anyone who talked negative about them. Then I started to open my eyes a few years ago. I noticed how after the original management left, things started to go downhill. A "culture change" started to appear as well. They are no longer the cute little NYC hometown airline that people put up with the abysmal on time performance because of how well B6 was, they are now a mess. Employees who worked for peanuts because they loved the culture are now unionized and unhappy, customers are leaving, they are maintaining the "enhanced service" marketing but now charge large amounts of money for checked bags, change fees, seats etc.

I myself haven't been on a B6 flight in 2 years. Something needs to happen, whether it is a merger or complete overhaul on what type of airline it is. It won't and can't work with how it is operating and managed right now.
RIP McDonnell Douglas
 
Bobloblaw
Posts: 2406
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:04 pm

FLL isn’t a true southern hub.
 
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enilria
Posts: 9482
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:07 pm

evank516 wrote:
enilria wrote:
evank516 wrote:
The biggest thing I've noticed about jetBlue over the past three years was there terrible on time performance.

I don't think that was really their fault. The Northeast has just gone to hell in terms of operational reliability. I don't know the reasons why it got so much worse, but Delta is just as bad at LGA and AA at DCA. Flying out of either airport in the afternoon is a death sentence. It's just that because B6 is almost all Northeast it takes down the whole airline, whereas DL has so much network breadth that it's a relatively small % of the whole and they can use the rest of the network to try to fix problems.


I've actually had better reliability flying Delta out of both LGA and JFK in the same time period than I have on jetBlue. I can only speak from personal experience since I don't work for an airline. In fact, I've had more on time flights out of LaGuardia in the evening than I've had out of JFK in the morning.

Well again, your Delta flight is more likely to be arriving from somewhere unaffected as Delta has a broader geographic network. Having said that. I've seen DL depart three flights to ATL nearly simultaneously more times than I can count because of delays.
 
nine4nine
Posts: 478
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 3:44 pm

Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:11 pm

N649DL wrote:
seabosdca wrote:
Why would AS want to merge with B6 and inherit all the issues you are describing? AS is still digesting the VX merger and has plenty of opportunities for organic growth on the West Coast. The most attractive merger partner for AS would be HA, not B6.

I think B6's future plans should be to the East Coast as AS is to the West Coast. Keep going after NYC business, beef up Florida, look for more Eastern focus cities, and fly to national destinations with the idea of cementing the East Coast customer base further in place. In short, try to rattle the cages of AA and DL in those markets the way AS is trying to do to WN in California.


Is the sky really falling out at B6 these days?

Personally, I'm all for B6 merging with UAL. They get a true southern hub, major Int'l presence (thanks to UAL), and would get back JFK. If it ever were to happen they'd have to release gates at EWR I'm sure.



Please stop it with this nonsense. The BIG3 megacarriers do not need to merge with another airline especially B6. The fewer the carriers the fewer the competition, the worse for the marketplace and fares will no doubt skyrocket for the consumer and service will continue to decline. Passengers will continue to be gouged, and squeezed into eventually 15” body bags. Let’s not forget that it will be eventually $50 per checked bag and pretty soon carry-on’s will be charged and new fees introduced all the while there will be many routes with only a sole carrier that can charge whatever the hell they feel like. In this case UA would have a monopoly in the NYC area covered by EWR to the south, JFK to the north. I don’t see it ever happening and I hope it does not. Not with UA, not with AA or DL or anyone for that matter. Mergermania needs to end!
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Art at ISP
Posts: 214
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2001 10:31 am

Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:21 pm

I tend to agree that B6 has a management problem, and one that is similar yet different from AA's problem with Parker. Parker only cares about shareholders, he doesn't give a crap about the employees or customers. In fact he holds his highest volume customers with utter contempt ( I have had meetings with him, he basically said it himself on many occasions.) While B6 has similar problems, they still recognize their employees and customers as being somewhat of an asset rather than the liability that we are to Parker.

One of the biggest contributors to the on-time dilemma at B6, however, is very simple--aircraft overscheduling. They try to keep most of their aircraft flying 22-23 hours a day, which SEEMS efficient, but any savings afforded by doing so are wiped out by compensation they have to give to delayed passengers. Case in point--just before Thanksgiving, I flew B6 JFK-MCO-JFK. The outbound was only 20 minutes late, but the return was 4 hours late, and it was a floating delay (posted unrealistic departure times which were not based on the actual position of the inbound aircraft). When I got back to JFK, I realized that the airplane was turning around to fly to the DR at 2:30AM (of course delayed). The snow the day before in NY had delayed the aircraft significantly and the schedule did not allow any RON time to make up for the delay--I tracked the same aircraft, and it did not get back on schedule for three days past my flight, meaning it was 4-5 hours late consistently for 4-5 days!! It makes little sense to do that.

At the end of the day, B6 will probably merge with a larger carrier, I just PRAY Doug Parker does not get the chance to ruin another good airline..
 
evank516
Posts: 1943
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:54 pm

Super80Fan wrote:
A few years ago I was the biggest B6 fanboy ever, as they got me back into my love of flying. Once I took my first flight with them December 2007 I was hooked. For the few years after the fact, I flew nothing but B6. I praised them online and went after anyone who talked negative about them. Then I started to open my eyes a few years ago. I noticed how after the original management left, things started to go downhill. A "culture change" started to appear as well. They are no longer the cute little NYC hometown airline that people put up with the abysmal on time performance because of how well B6 was, they are now a mess. Employees who worked for peanuts because they loved the culture are now unionized and unhappy, customers are leaving, they are maintaining the "enhanced service" marketing but now charge large amounts of money for checked bags, change fees, seats etc.

I myself haven't been on a B6 flight in 2 years. Something needs to happen, whether it is a merger or complete overhaul on what type of airline it is. It won't and can't work with how it is operating and managed right now.


The closure of DAB ended any chance of me ever flying them again, at least if I have anything to say about it.
 
SurfandSnow
Posts: 1438
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:02 pm

fastmover wrote:
The west coast strategy is pretty much dead after the LGB customs fail and the VA merger fail.


Let's not kid ourselves - international services to Canada and Mexico have rarely been successful from secondary Greater Los Angeles airports with FIS capabilities. ONT recently lost all AM service, while SNA quickly lost AC and 4O after opening its own customs facility. Central America seems to be an even more challenging endeavor for U.S. carriers, particularly when it comes to LA. DL just announced the cessation of LAX-SAL a few days ago.

To be sure, there was never a need for LGB to waste all kinds of resources on a FIS facility. Such a boondoggle may have seemingly prolonged the inevitable decline of B6 at LGB, but I think we can all agree that B6 was never going to fare any better on routes like LGB-CUN/GDL/LIR/MEX/PVR/SJD/SJO/YVR/YYC/YYZ than they did serving LGB-ANC/FLL/IAD/ORD. International services certainly weren't going to magically solve LGB's longstanding yield issues; ultimately, B6 would have ended up cutting service and surrendering permanent LGB slots to WN anyways. At least this way LGB isn't stuck with an unused customs facility!

Merging with VA would have been a major challenge for B6 and, I believe, severely distracted attention and resources from core strengths like Latin America and New England. In fact, the West Coast strategy lately has been to add (or resume) nonstop services from East Coast strongholds - particularly BOS and FLL. SNA will probably be added as soon as B6 has planes that can operate nonstop SNA-BOS/FLL/JFK with viable payloads. Then, the best strategy may very well be to cut LGB entirely and let WN deal with the chronic yield issues there.
Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
 
nine4nine
Posts: 478
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:32 pm

SurfandSnow wrote:
fastmover wrote:
The west coast strategy is pretty much dead after the LGB customs fail and the VA merger fail.


Let's not kid ourselves - international services to Canada and Mexico have rarely been successful from secondary Greater Los Angeles airports with FIS capabilities. ONT recently lost all AM service, while SNA quickly lost AC and 4O after opening its own customs facility. Central America seems to be an even more challenging endeavor for U.S. carriers, particularly when it comes to LA. DL just announced the cessation of LAX-SAL a few days ago.

To be sure, there was never a need for LGB to waste all kinds of resources on a FIS facility. Such a boondoggle may have seemingly prolonged the inevitable decline of B6 at LGB, but I think we can all agree that B6 was never going to fare any better on routes like LGB-CUN/GDL/LIR/MEX/PVR/SJD/SJO/YVR/YYC/YYZ than they did serving LGB-ANC/FLL/IAD/ORD. International services certainly weren't going to magically solve LGB's longstanding yield issues; ultimately, B6 would have ended up cutting service and surrendering permanent LGB slots to WN anyways. At least this way LGB isn't stuck with an unused customs facility!

Merging with VA would have been a major challenge for B6 and, I believe, severely distracted attention and resources from core strengths like Latin America and New England. In fact, the West Coast strategy lately has been to add (or resume) nonstop services from East Coast strongholds - particularly BOS and FLL. SNA will probably be added as soon as B6 has planes that can operate nonstop SNA-BOS/FLL/JFK with viable payloads. Then, the best strategy may very well be to cut LGB entirely and let WN deal with the chronic yield issues there.



100% on point!
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hiflyeras
Posts: 2005
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 6:48 pm

Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:03 pm

enilria wrote:
BTW, I saw BZN-LGB over the holidays selling for $149 RT, so that's not saving the company. LOL.


I happened to be sitting waiting for a flight at BZN the day this was announced. The other airlines in BZN were getting a good laugh over it. The response was generally 'WTF?'
 
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airportugal310
Posts: 3476
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:09 pm

hiflyeras wrote:
enilria wrote:
BTW, I saw BZN-LGB over the holidays selling for $149 RT, so that's not saving the company. LOL.


I happened to be sitting waiting for a flight at BZN the day this was announced. The other airlines in BZN were getting a good laugh over it. The response was generally 'WTF?'


Why? Seems petty, really.
I sell airplanes and airplane accessories
 
LawnDart
Posts: 866
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:52 pm

enilria wrote:
evank516 wrote:
The biggest thing I've noticed about jetBlue over the past three years was there terrible on time performance.

I don't think that was really their fault. The Northeast has just gone to hell in terms of operational reliability. I don't know the reasons why it got so much worse, but Delta is just as bad at LGA and AA at DCA.


From the latest Air Travel Consumer Report (data for OCT 2018) On-Time Arrivals (all data mainline only) :

System:
AA 78.8
DL 90.0
B6 78.8

DCA
AA 82.1 (1977 flights)
B6 79.3 (909 flights)

So AA is 2.8 percentage points better than B6 at DCA, with more than twice as many flights.

LGA
DL 81.2 (1934 flights)
B6 72.6 (526 flights)

So DL is 8.6 percentage points better than B6 at LGA, with nearly four times as many flights.

And just for grins, let's throw in JFK...
AA 85.0 (1530 flights)
DL 90.3 (2590 flights)
B6 82.1 (3585 flights)

So AA is 2.9 percentage points and DL is 8.2 percentage points better than B6 at JFK, albeit B6 has ~57% more mainline operations than AA, and ~28% more than DL. This is only a one month sample, but indicative of the operations of all three carriers' performance recently.

It is also indicative that jetBlue's operational performance is, in fact, "really their fault". And that management needs to start managing...
 
N649DL
Posts: 515
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:21 pm

Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:56 pm

nine4nine wrote:
N649DL wrote:
seabosdca wrote:
Why would AS want to merge with B6 and inherit all the issues you are describing? AS is still digesting the VX merger and has plenty of opportunities for organic growth on the West Coast. The most attractive merger partner for AS would be HA, not B6.

I think B6's future plans should be to the East Coast as AS is to the West Coast. Keep going after NYC business, beef up Florida, look for more Eastern focus cities, and fly to national destinations with the idea of cementing the East Coast customer base further in place. In short, try to rattle the cages of AA and DL in those markets the way AS is trying to do to WN in California.


Is the sky really falling out at B6 these days?

Personally, I'm all for B6 merging with UAL. They get a true southern hub, major Int'l presence (thanks to UAL), and would get back JFK. If it ever were to happen they'd have to release gates at EWR I'm sure.



Please stop it with this nonsense. The BIG3 megacarriers do not need to merge with another airline especially B6. The fewer the carriers the fewer the competition, the worse for the marketplace and fares will no doubt skyrocket for the consumer and service will continue to decline. Passengers will continue to be gouged, and squeezed into eventually 15” body bags. Let’s not forget that it will be eventually $50 per checked bag and pretty soon carry-on’s will be charged and new fees introduced all the while there will be many routes with only a sole carrier that can charge whatever the hell they feel like. In this case UA would have a monopoly in the NYC area covered by EWR to the south, JFK to the north. I don’t see it ever happening and I hope it does not. Not with UA, not with AA or DL or anyone for that matter. Mergermania needs to end!


That's your opinion. If you don't like what you're reading, don't respond and don't promote censorship either.

"The fewer the carriers the fewer the competition, the worse for the marketplace and fares will no doubt skyrocket for the consumer and service will continue to decline."

Yeah news flash, it's 2019 pal, that's been going on for over a decade.
 
IAmGaroott
Posts: 88
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:18 am

Swadian wrote:
flyguy84 wrote:
I feel JetBlue is setting itself up for an acquisition. I don't believe its going to be with Alaska.


If B6 has the same management rift as AA has with merger-happy Doug Parker, I wouldn't be shocked to see B6 merge with AA. After all, Doug Parker is the only major airline CEO who's essentially dedicated his entire career to mergers.


I often wondered if the AA US marriage was blocked, that US would have gone after B6 and taken on their business model.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 5392
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:58 am

Dieuwer wrote:
Next time someone claims JetBlue is a LCC, they should post CASM numbers.


Easy enough. Five seconds with Google search.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/527 ... y-airline/
 
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jfklganyc
Posts: 5396
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:15 am

LawnDart wrote:
enilria wrote:
evank516 wrote:
The biggest thing I've noticed about jetBlue over the past three years was there terrible on time performance.

I don't think that was really their fault. The Northeast has just gone to hell in terms of operational reliability. I don't know the reasons why it got so much worse, but Delta is just as bad at LGA and AA at DCA.


From the latest Air Travel Consumer Report (data for OCT 2018) On-Time Arrivals (all data mainline only) :

System:
AA 78.8
DL 90.0
B6 78.8

DCA
AA 82.1 (1977 flights)
B6 79.3 (909 flights)

So AA is 2.8 percentage points better than B6 at DCA, with more than twice as many flights.

LGA
DL 81.2 (1934 flights)
B6 72.6 (526 flights)

So DL is 8.6 percentage points better than B6 at LGA, with nearly four times as many flights.

And just for grins, let's throw in JFK...
AA 85.0 (1530 flights)
DL 90.3 (2590 flights)
B6 82.1 (3585 flights)

So AA is 2.9 percentage points and DL is 8.2 percentage points better than B6 at JFK, albeit B6 has ~57% more mainline operations than AA, and ~28% more than DL. This is only a one month sample, but indicative of the operations of all three carriers' performance recently.

It is also indicative that jetBlue's operational performance is, in fact, "really their fault". And that management needs to start managing...



Facts! Thank u!
 
TheLunchbox
Posts: 45
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2018 4:31 pm

Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:17 am

Art at ISP wrote:
I tend to agree that B6 has a management problem, and one that is similar yet different from AA's problem with Parker. Parker only cares about shareholders, he doesn't give a crap about the employees or customers. In fact he holds his highest volume customers with utter contempt ( I have had meetings with him, he basically said it himself on many occasions.) While B6 has similar problems, they still recognize their employees and customers as being somewhat of an asset rather than the liability that we are to Parker.

One of the biggest contributors to the on-time dilemma at B6, however, is very simple--aircraft overscheduling. They try to keep most of their aircraft flying 22-23 hours a day, which SEEMS efficient, but any savings afforded by doing so are wiped out by compensation they have to give to delayed passengers. Case in point--just before Thanksgiving, I flew B6 JFK-MCO-JFK. The outbound was only 20 minutes late, but the return was 4 hours late, and it was a floating delay (posted unrealistic departure times which were not based on the actual position of the inbound aircraft). When I got back to JFK, I realized that the airplane was turning around to fly to the DR at 2:30AM (of course delayed). The snow the day before in NY had delayed the aircraft significantly and the schedule did not allow any RON time to make up for the delay--I tracked the same aircraft, and it did not get back on schedule for three days past my flight, meaning it was 4-5 hours late consistently for 4-5 days!! It makes little sense to do that.

At the end of the day, B6 will probably merge with a larger carrier, I just PRAY Doug Parker does not get the chance to ruin another good airline..


it's my understanding they were running zero cancels over the holiday peak hence the late flights.
 
sonicruiser
Posts: 468
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2018 4:18 am

Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:18 am

The only airline B6 could've seriously merged with was VX. That ship has sailed. The F9/NK combo makes sense, the legacies have already tied up and AS stole VX right out of B6's lap.

The writing is on the wall for B6. They will survive on their own because they have to survive on their own. If this was the airline equivalent of musical chairs, B6 is the last one standing and it sucks, but sometimes you have to go it alone. That said, B6 is nowhere near the imminent death everyone claims, although things will probably get worse before they get better. Even as an outsider, anyone with even a passing interest in the industry can tell you that B6 is definitely in the midst of an identity crisis trying to figure out what exactly they want to be.

The basic problem with B6 is that they are way too timid in an industry that loves aggressive expansion more than sharks love blood. B6 in particular is hit hard by this fighting DL both at BOS and JFK and trying to figure out what their west coast strategy is after losing VX to AS.

B6 may never be as strong as AS on the west coast, and that's ok, but the difference is that AS is expanding at lightspeed out west while B6 is moving at a snails pace in the east. They're taking painfully long to get their act together on TATL ops which is letting DL eat their lunch.

AS has much stronger name recognition on par with or even above legacies all along the west coast especially in smaller airports while B6 does not have any sort of equivalent name recognition along the east coast outside of JFK and BOS. My home base is MCO which is supposed to be a B6 hub but you wouldn't know it based on how small their operation is compared even to their own hub just down the road in FLL. AS is strong enough to have a solid transcon network that despite being a west coast airline, they have flights as far as SEA-MCO while B6 severely lacks in the transcon department relative to AS. All that to say I haven't yet found myself flying B6 despite living in one of their hubs because they're not big enough to be the first choice I think of when flying out of MCO. That's a problem because if I don't immediately think of B6 flying out of one of their major hubs, imagine how obscure they are outside their hubs in random east coast cities, let alone out west. Meanwhile, when I have to fly out west, I immediately think of AS because they fly multiple frequencies to SEA as well as SFO and SAN all nonstop from MCO despite AS being an airline which prides itself on the west coast. B6 has a major problem on its hands when a west coast airline has better name recognition in a B6 hub than B6.
 
IPFreely
Posts: 2325
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 8:26 am

Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:40 am

LawnDart wrote:
From the latest Air Travel Consumer Report (data for OCT 2018) On-Time Arrivals (all data mainline only)


How about including Delta Connection and American Eagle? JetBlue operates all their own flights; they don't have poor performing regional airline flights to cancel when they want to make their mainline stats look better.
 
IPFreely
Posts: 2325
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 8:26 am

Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:44 am

jfklganyc wrote:
Facts! Thank u!


Misleading facts since it's "mainline only". When New York has delays and cancellations because of ground stops and flow control, Delta and American will sacrifice Delta Connection and American Eagle flights so they can report good "mainline" performance. JetBlue operates all their own flights so they can't pull off this deception.
 
UPNYGuy
Posts: 273
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2011 4:14 pm

Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:25 am

sonicruiser wrote:
The only airline B6 could've seriously merged with was VX. That ship has sailed. The F9/NK combo makes sense, the legacies have already tied up and AS stole VX right out of B6's lap.

The writing is on the wall for B6. They will survive on their own because they have to survive on their own. If this was the airline equivalent of musical chairs, B6 is the last one standing and it sucks, but sometimes you have to go it alone. That said, B6 is nowhere near the imminent death everyone claims, although things will probably get worse before they get better. Even as an outsider, anyone with even a passing interest in the industry can tell you that B6 is definitely in the midst of an identity crisis trying to figure out what exactly they want to be.

The basic problem with B6 is that they are way too timid in an industry that loves aggressive expansion more than sharks love blood. B6 in particular is hit hard by this fighting DL both at BOS and JFK and trying to figure out what their west coast strategy is after losing VX to AS.

B6 may never be as strong as AS on the west coast, and that's ok, but the difference is that AS is expanding at lightspeed out west while B6 is moving at a snails pace in the east. They're taking painfully long to get their act together on TATL ops which is letting DL eat their lunch.

AS has much stronger name recognition on par with or even above legacies all along the west coast especially in smaller airports while B6 does not have any sort of equivalent name recognition along the east coast outside of JFK and BOS. My home base is MCO which is supposed to be a B6 hub but you wouldn't know it based on how small their operation is compared even to their own hub just down the road in FLL. AS is strong enough to have a solid transcon network that despite being a west coast airline, they have flights as far as SEA-MCO while B6 severely lacks in the transcon department relative to AS. All that to say I haven't yet found myself flying B6 despite living in one of their hubs because they're not big enough to be the first choice I think of when flying out of MCO. That's a problem because if I don't immediately think of B6 flying out of one of their major hubs, imagine how obscure they are outside their hubs in random east coast cities, let alone out west. Meanwhile, when I have to fly out west, I immediately think of AS because they fly multiple frequencies to SEA as well as SFO and SAN all nonstop from MCO despite AS being an airline which prides itself on the west coast. B6 has a major problem on its hands when a west coast airline has better name recognition in a B6 hub than B6.


As a New Yorker, I can attest to a similar (in reverse) situation. They waited too long to come into Albany, and now are contending with Southwest, Frontier, and Allegiant on the Mickey runs. Frontier and Allegiant came in after B6, but they are going to create problems for them.
 
trueblew
Posts: 38
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:16 pm

Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:28 am

nine4nine wrote:
I posted this on another B6 thread but find it appropriate here as well.

Wow whiners out in full effect. We get it. Management at B6 has issues starting from the top. AA has the same issues with Doug Parker. It happens.

But your attitudes and moral have a huge effect on your operations wether you see it or not. You can’t blame the issues solely on management but on yourselves as well. You are part of the problem. If you have a chip on your shoulder with your employer you may not see it, but guaranteed it is shown in your demeanor around your customers or in your work performance. Rather than bitch and moan, why don’t you take pride in your company, be a standout and better yourselves and have a positive attitude. If that’s passed through the rest of the employees you can help tip the scales to a more favorable outlook for B6 and offset what management lacks.

You all have a job, benefits, and health insurance. Take a look at those less fortunate and out looking for jobs and wondering how to pay the next rent payment or grocery tab. If you don’t change your attitudes you may well be joining them soon.

And before any of you blast me, I’ve been in the industry. I’ve been laid off both pre911 and post911 from airlines and lost everything I’ve owned in my life both times. My first lay-off, both my employees and myself saw the writing on the wall and our morale was in the toilet and we didn’t give a shit at that point and that sped things faster to demise. Be grateful for what you have, find ways to make the work situation better, because if you don’t, tomorrow may not have something to offer you.


Johanna, is that you? Yes, B6 employees should make up for management failures, profit sharing cuts, and a hostile work environment with more smiles and a great attitude!!! Just thrilled to have a job in the era of record low unemployment!
 
User avatar
aemoreira1981
Posts: 2772
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:17 am

Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:29 am

nine4nine wrote:
seabosdca wrote:
Why would AS want to merge with B6 and inherit all the issues you are describing? AS is still digesting the VX merger and has plenty of opportunities for organic growth on the West Coast. The most attractive merger partner for AS would be HA, not B6.

I think B6's future plans should be to the East Coast as AS is to the West Coast. Keep going after NYC business, beef up Florida, look for more Eastern focus cities, and fly to national destinations with the idea of cementing the East Coast customer base further in place. In short, try to rattle the cages of AA and DL in those markets the way AS is trying to do to WN in California.


Agreed. AS has butchered the VX product which actually made a nice relaxed flying experience. They’ve dumped or cut back substantially many of the VX routes and incorporated the boring lackluster cabin offerings.

IF a marriage between AS and B6 were to ever transpire let’s hope the B6 name and service would be the overpowering factors. Nobody thinks Alaska when flying east-west or Caribbean and vice versa.


I honestly believe that an AS-B6 merger would have B6 being the acquiring entity as well. It would also give B6 access to the West Coast network of AS and also give it a place at airports where it has no presence now, like DFW. The major question would be what to do with the ex-VX Airbus fleet, as those are CFM frames as opposed to B6's IAE frames (also, VX was mostly leased while B6 is mostly owned or financed). Such an acquisition could also give B6 the incentive to add more BCS3s or BCS1s, especially for regional ops. The question is if a regional partner would be added to JFK operations (currently, B6 is all mainline). Why I see B6 buying AS more than AS buying B6 is because B6 has more valuable assets, such as more landing slots at slot-restricted JFK and LGA and being a future landlord of other airlines at JFK, along with a lot of amortized Airbus planes.

Would the value of B6's slots and aircraft, with the Airbus fleet mostly owned or financed, be worth more than the airline's market cap?
 
fastmover
Topic Author
Posts: 419
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 5:37 pm

Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:52 am

SurfandSnow wrote:
fastmover wrote:
The west coast strategy is pretty much dead after the LGB customs fail and the VA merger fail.


Let's not kid ourselves - international services to Canada and Mexico have rarely been successful from secondary Greater Los Angeles airports with FIS capabilities. ONT recently lost all AM service, while SNA quickly lost AC and 4O after opening its own customs facility. Central America seems to be an even more challenging endeavor for U.S. carriers, particularly when it comes to LA. DL just announced the cessation of LAX-SAL a few days ago.

To be sure, there was never a need for LGB to waste all kinds of resources on a FIS facility. Such a boondoggle may have seemingly prolonged the inevitable decline of B6 at LGB, but I think we can all agree that B6 was never going to fare any better on routes like LGB-CUN/GDL/LIR/MEX/PVR/SJD/SJO/YVR/YYC/YYZ than they did serving LGB-ANC/FLL/IAD/ORD. International services certainly weren't going to magically solve LGB's longstanding yield issues; ultimately, B6 would have ended up cutting service and surrendering permanent LGB slots to WN anyways. At least this way LGB isn't stuck with an unused customs facility!

Merging with VA would have been a major challenge for B6 and, I believe, severely distracted attention and resources from core strengths like Latin America and New England. In fact, the West Coast strategy lately has been to add (or resume) nonstop services from East Coast strongholds - particularly BOS and FLL. SNA will probably be added as soon as B6 has planes that can operate nonstop SNA-BOS/FLL/JFK with viable payloads. Then, the best strategy may very well be to cut LGB entirely and let WN deal with the chronic yield issues there.



Well if that is the case it just points out how dumb current management is. I know for a fact that the plan were for customs at LGB and that was one of the reason for the recent build up. I was also at an event where the COO admitted they failed at it and didn’t even want to discuss LGB.
 
LawnDart
Posts: 866
Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 11:33 pm

Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:22 am

IPFreely wrote:
LawnDart wrote:
From the latest Air Travel Consumer Report (data for OCT 2018) On-Time Arrivals (all data mainline only)


How about including Delta Connection and American Eagle? JetBlue operates all their own flights; they don't have poor performing regional airline flights to cancel when they want to make their mainline stats look better.


Well, if you insist...
On-time performance (Network, including poor performing regional airline flights)

DCA
AA : 7299 flights @ 83.0% (actually an improvement from mainline only)
B6 909 flights @ 79.3%
So AA had a 3.7 percentage point better performance than jetBlue at DCA operating eight times as many flights.

LGA
DL 7021 flights @ 76.9
B6 526 flights @ 72.6
So DL had a 4.3 percentage point better performance than jetBlue at LGA operating thirteen times as many flights.

JFK
AA 2150 flights @ 83.5
DL 4802 flights @ 87.2
B6 3585 flights @ 82.1
So, both AA and DL... ah, screw it. I'm old and it's past my bedtime. You do the math.

IPFreely wrote:
Misleading facts since it's "mainline only". When New York has delays and cancellations because of ground stops and flow control, Delta and American will sacrifice Delta Connection and American Eagle flights so they can report good "mainline" performance. JetBlue operates all their own flights so they can't pull off this deception..


It may come as a surprise that one of the main reasons AA and DL will "sacrifice" a flight with 60 passengers on it over a flight with 160 passengers on it is...well... one has 60 passengers on it and the other has 160 passengers on it.
 
User avatar
admanager
Posts: 239
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2011 11:28 pm

Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:37 am

While there are many ways to evaluate management, I agree on-time performance can be useful, the key is to follow the money. Looking at the price to earnings ratio (PE) is probably the easiest way (not the only way) and while B6 is remarkably close to Alaska they are lower than all the majors. On a positive note, the PE ratio has been remarkably consistent for the past 6 years - conversely, they aren't getting any better.
Maybe the A-220 arrival will help down the road, but right now I believe its time for a shakeup.
https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/char ... s/pe-ratio
 
nine4nine
Posts: 478
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 3:44 pm

Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:45 am

trueblew wrote:
nine4nine wrote:
I posted this on another B6 thread but find it appropriate here as well.

Wow whiners out in full effect. We get it. Management at B6 has issues starting from the top. AA has the same issues with Doug Parker. It happens.

But your attitudes and moral have a huge effect on your operations wether you see it or not. You can’t blame the issues solely on management but on yourselves as well. You are part of the problem. If you have a chip on your shoulder with your employer you may not see it, but guaranteed it is shown in your demeanor around your customers or in your work performance. Rather than bitch and moan, why don’t you take pride in your company, be a standout and better yourselves and have a positive attitude. If that’s passed through the rest of the employees you can help tip the scales to a more favorable outlook for B6 and offset what management lacks.

You all have a job, benefits, and health insurance. Take a look at those less fortunate and out looking for jobs and wondering how to pay the next rent payment or grocery tab. If you don’t change your attitudes you may well be joining them soon.

And before any of you blast me, I’ve been in the industry. I’ve been laid off both pre911 and post911 from airlines and lost everything I’ve owned in my life both times. My first lay-off, both my employees and myself saw the writing on the wall and our morale was in the toilet and we didn’t give a shit at that point and that sped things faster to demise. Be grateful for what you have, find ways to make the work situation better, because if you don’t, tomorrow may not have something to offer you.


Johanna, is that you? Yes, B6 employees should make up for management failures, profit sharing cuts, and a hostile work environment with more smiles and a great attitude!!! Just thrilled to have a job in the era of record low unemployment!



Welp then find another job. If you are so miserable nobody forces you to get up everyday, put on your blues and go to work. Quit tomorrow. I’m sure you’d be much happier over at AA or UA, heck even try Menzies.
Last edited by nine4nine on Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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