797
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Official: Joon To Be Re-Absorbed Into Air France

Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:35 pm

The Joon adventure is rapidly coming to an end. According to an internal memo from the UNAC syndicate, the low-cost spinoff that was conceived as a millennial-targeted airline will be reabsorbed into Air France.

https://airwaysmag.com/airlines/joon-no ... ir-france/

Way to go, Ben Smith!!!!

This was a pointless "Millennial" venture.
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william
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Re: Official: Joon To Be Re-Absorbed Into Air France

Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:42 pm

Flying on Joon this summer from Frankfurt to Paris, wander if I get an email.
 
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NearMiss
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Re: Official: Joon To Be Re-Absorbed Into Air France

Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:53 pm

Whoever thought this was a good idea in the first place...
"There is an art, it says, or rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
 
smallvoyageur
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Re: Official: Joon To Be Re-Absorbed Into Air France

Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:58 pm

As someone else mentioned on Twitter, Level has a reason for existence, e.g. a LHLCC to compete against Norwegian. Joon on the other hand, has virtually no point.
 
A388
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Re: Official: Joon To Be Re-Absorbed Into Air France

Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:02 pm

So first AF denied earlier rumors that Joon would be closed and now they confirm themselves it will go away(?)

A388
 
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Slash787
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Re: Official: Joon To Be Re-Absorbed Into Air France

Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:05 pm

They think they are smart, but no they are not.
 
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TheLion
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Re: Official: Joon To Be Re-Absorbed Into Air France

Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:18 pm

“Well that didn’t last long, did it...”
 
Blerg
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Re: Official: Joon To Be Re-Absorbed Into Air France

Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:21 pm

Will be interesting to see what happens with the European routes (BCN, BUD, ARN...) that were switched from mainline to Joon. I guess those were underperforming in the past.
 
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zkojq
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Re: Official: Joon To Be Re-Absorbed Into Air France

Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:26 pm

What a waste. Should have positioned Transavia France to fly the Joon routes.

smallvoyageur wrote:
As someone else mentioned on Twitter, Level has a reason for existence, e.g. a LHLCC to compete against Norwegian. Joon on the other hand, has virtually no point.

Level's reason for existence is because IAG has let Vueling's brand/reputation become so toxic.
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797
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Re: Official: Joon To Be Re-Absorbed Into Air France

Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:28 pm

Flying isn't dangerous. Crashing is what's dangerous!
 
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ro1960
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Re: Official: Joon To Be Re-Absorbed Into Air France

Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:48 pm

Possible date for Joon's integration into AF is April 1st (no joke!).

The good news for FAs is that they will be integrated at AF wages levels. At Joon's they're paid 40% less. Pilots had the same wages as AF's.

So it will be interesting to see what Smith's next move will be to compensate the savings AF was making with Joon (if any).

Article in French :
https://www.huffingtonpost.fr/2019/01/10/air-france-enterre-joon-sa-compagnie-low-cost_a_23639373/?utm_hp_ref=fr-homepage
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HECA
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Re: Official: Joon To Be Re-Absorbed Into Air France

Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:58 pm

zkojq wrote:
What a waste. Should have positioned Transavia France to fly the Joon routes.

smallvoyageur wrote:
As someone else mentioned on Twitter, Level has a reason for existence, e.g. a LHLCC to compete against Norwegian. Joon on the other hand, has virtually no point.

Level's reason for existence is because IAG has let Vueling's brand/reputation become so toxic.


Fully agree! I hope Ben Smith and AF renegotiate Transavia's ability to expand its fleet and staff to ensure Transavia becomes the LCC for AF/KL as Eurowings is for the Lufthansa Group and Vueling/Level for IAG.
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Re: Official: Joon To Be Re-Absorbed Into Air France

Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:05 pm

797 wrote:


I'd forgotten that existed. The sooner this whole sorry endeavor is forgotten, the better.
I wonder if this means the A340s will return to AF mainline, or whether they will be retired?
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Re: Official: Joon To Be Re-Absorbed Into Air France

Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:10 pm

I wonder what they’ll do with the refitted A340s.
 
musman9853
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Re: Official: Joon To Be Re-Absorbed Into Air France

Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:17 pm

zkojq wrote:
What a waste. Should have positioned Transavia France to fly the Joon routes.

smallvoyageur wrote:
As someone else mentioned on Twitter, Level has a reason for existence, e.g. a LHLCC to compete against Norwegian. Joon on the other hand, has virtually no point.

Level's reason for existence is because IAG has let Vueling's brand/reputation become so toxic.



why is vueling considered toxic? i've flown them a few times, and they're a perfectly good ulcc, definitely on par w/ easyjet and better than ryanair
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cityshuttle
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Re: Official: Joon To Be Re-Absorbed Into Air France

Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:21 pm

Actually the Joon cabin was more modern (USB sockets on every seat, etc) ... hope they will adopt such things to AF mainline aircrafts.
 
a350lover
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Re: Official: Joon To Be Re-Absorbed Into Air France

Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:22 pm

Vueling ranked last year as the 63th most punctual low cost airline in the world. The summer was pretty terrible for them with cancellations, strikes, bad weather messing its BCN hub, etc. All together put together pretty much every day in the news for bad reasons.

Several actions have been taken already, like the drop of the services from Amsterdam for this coming season. Same has happened to the routes from ZRH, which were flown by BCN crews. They have cut some other routes where the frequency per week was low, so this coming summer should be some better for them.
 
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Re: Official: Joon To Be Re-Absorbed Into Air France

Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:26 pm

ikolkyo wrote:
I wonder what they’ll do with the refitted A340s.

Probably phased out. A350s for AF are coming this year! :bouncy:
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Re: Official: Joon To Be Re-Absorbed Into Air France

Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:30 pm

a350lover wrote:
Vueling ranked last year as the 63th most punctual low cost airline in the world. The summer was pretty terrible for them with cancellations, strikes, bad weather messing its BCN hub, etc. All together put together pretty much every day in the news for bad reasons.

Several actions have been taken already, like the drop of the services from Amsterdam for this coming season. Same has happened to the routes from ZRH, which were flown by BCN crews. They have cut some other routes where the frequency per week was low, so this coming summer should be some better for them.


Ryanair have had an equally bad year.
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LHRlocal
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Re: Official: Joon To Be Re-Absorbed Into Air France

Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:45 pm

Well, they didn't last long, Surely this is too joon?....
 
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Jouhou
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Re: Official: Joon To Be Re-Absorbed Into Air France

Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:58 pm

zkojq wrote:
What a waste. Should have positioned Transavia France to fly the Joon routes.

smallvoyageur wrote:
As someone else mentioned on Twitter, Level has a reason for existence, e.g. a LHLCC to compete against Norwegian. Joon on the other hand, has virtually no point.

Level's reason for existence is because IAG has let Vueling's brand/reputation become so toxic.


Vueling also does not fly long haul and while Iberia sort of made sense it was considered a bad idea to use the Iberia name in Barcelona.
 
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Re: Official: Joon To Be Re-Absorbed Into Air France

Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:04 pm

NearMiss wrote:
Whoever thought this was a good idea in the first place...


Most likely people from an older generation who think they know what millennials want. Anytime a new product comes out that is "for millennials" I can guarantee you that out of touch baby boomers were the ones calling the shots. If millennials came up with it there would be no need to state that it's targeted towards millennials.
 
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Re: Official: Joon To Be Re-Absorbed Into Air France

Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:08 pm

NearMiss wrote:
Whoever thought this was a good idea in the first place...


It would have been a good idea if they were able to save more on the wages like they planned, however the unions prevented that. They made sure the Joon pilots got just as much as their Air France colleagues. That was not how Joon was planned, but it was how it turned out to be. Basically the unions killed Joon.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: Official: Joon To Be Re-Absorbed Into Air France

Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:45 pm

How do you even pronounce Joon?
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devron
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Re: Official: Joon To Be Re-Absorbed Into Air France

Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:53 pm

Flight will go to air france or transavia?
 
Breathe
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Re: Official: Joon To Be Re-Absorbed Into Air France

Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:58 pm

The only folk who have seem to have done well out of this debacle are paint companies...
 
senatorflyer
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Re: Official: Joon To Be Re-Absorbed Into Air France

Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:06 pm

I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again. European airline managers are not good in strategic planning, streamlining and keeping the costs down.
There is no business case for the existence of Hop, Joon, Eurowings (Germanwings), Transavia, Level and all those other invented “let’s do some LCC stuff too” airlines.
Apart from adding complexity to the group structure and its processes it also costs an unnecessary amount of money to create and maintain a new brand while it is weakening the brand of the legacy carrier.
Pretty much all European legacy carriers have already HBO tariffs, most airlines also charge for food and drinks in economy. If one airline doesn’t want to ditch the catering completely then the Brussels Airlines way would have been the answer. Sell some cheap tickets without catering or even better, sell the catering during the booking process for economy for an additional charge. If one airline thinks labour costs are the issue, then just use a different legal entity to operate the flight.
 
TWFlyGuy
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Re: Official: Joon To Be Re-Absorbed Into Air France

Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:09 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
NearMiss wrote:
Whoever thought this was a good idea in the first place...


It would have been a good idea if they were able to save more on the wages like they planned, however the unions prevented that. They made sure the Joon pilots got just as much as their Air France colleagues. That was not how Joon was planned, but it was how it turned out to be. Basically the unions killed Joon.


Isn't that what their partner Delta thought with Delta Express and Song, both of which failed? Maybe they could have chatted beforehand.
 
MartijnNL
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Re: Official: Joon To Be Re-Absorbed Into Air France

Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:03 pm

Breathe wrote:
The only folk who have seem to have done well out of this debacle are paint companies...

And the airplane spotters of course. ;)
Always nice to see something new.

So far I haven't spotted a Joon aircraft myself.
Now I will have to hurry to accomplish that.
 
Akiestar
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Re: Official: Joon To Be Re-Absorbed Into Air France

Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:07 pm

TWA772LR wrote:
How do you even pronounce Joon?


Like the word "June".

That said, having flown JN on one of those A340s, they will be missed. I enjoyed them more than mainline AF, that's for sure.
 
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Re: Official: Joon To Be Re-Absorbed Into Air France

Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:08 pm

senatorflyer wrote:
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again. European airline managers are not good in strategic planning, streamlining and keeping the costs down.
There is no business case for the existence of Hop, Joon, Eurowings (Germanwings), Transavia, Level and all those other invented “let’s do some LCC stuff too” airlines.
Apart from adding complexity to the group structure and its processes it also costs an unnecessary amount of money to create and maintain a new brand while it is weakening the brand of the legacy carrier.
Pretty much all European legacy carriers have already HBO tariffs, most airlines also charge for food and drinks in economy. If one airline doesn’t want to ditch the catering completely then the Brussels Airlines way would have been the answer. Sell some cheap tickets without catering or even better, sell the catering during the booking process for economy for an additional charge. If one airline thinks labour costs are the issue, then just use a different legal entity to operate the flight.


Exactly. No Euro legacy carrier has done real well with their LCC preemptive brands. Maybe IAG will get it figured out, but I'll remain a skeptic.
 
MartijnNL
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Re: Official: Joon To Be Re-Absorbed Into Air France

Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:19 pm

senatorflyer wrote:
There is no business case for the existence of Hop, Joon, Eurowings (Germanwings), Transavia, Level and all those other invented “let’s do some LCC stuff too” airlines.

Transavia has flown for more than fifty years. Doesn't that prove there is a business case for this airline?

senatorflyer wrote:
Pretty much all European legacy carriers have already HBO tariffs, most airlines also charge for food and drinks in economy.

What are HBO tariffs? KLM, Lufthansa, Swiss, TAP (European legacy carriers I have flown in 2018) don't charge for food and drinks in economy.

senatorflyer wrote:
If one airline doesn’t want to ditch the catering completely then the Brussels Airlines way would have been the answer. Sell some cheap tickets without catering or even better, sell the catering during the booking process for economy for an additional charge.

I would never buy catering during the booking process. How do I know if I will be hungry or what I would like to have during a flight which is still months away when I book it?
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Official: Joon To Be Re-Absorbed Into Air France

Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:22 pm

senatorflyer wrote:
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again. European airline managers are not good in strategic planning, streamlining and keeping the costs down.
There is no business case for the existence of Hop, Joon, Eurowings (Germanwings), Transavia, Level and all those other invented “let’s do some LCC stuff too” airlines.
Apart from adding complexity to the group structure and its processes it also costs an unnecessary amount of money to create and maintain a new brand while it is weakening the brand of the legacy carrier.
Pretty much all European legacy carriers have already HBO tariffs, most airlines also charge for food and drinks in economy. If one airline doesn’t want to ditch the catering completely then the Brussels Airlines way would have been the answer. Sell some cheap tickets without catering or even better, sell the catering during the booking process for economy for an additional charge. If one airline thinks labour costs are the issue, then just use a different legal entity to operate the flight.


Sorry, but I have to disagree. Your view of things may make sense in America, but Europe is something different. In Europe if you want to attract a LCC passenger, you got to have an LCC brand. They just won't settle for a legacy brand, it doesn't work that way. You can reduce the service level and ticket price of the legacy brand all you want, you're not going to attract that LCC passenger with it. They just don't fly legacy airlines, end of discussion. So to keep that passenger from flying EasyJet or Ryanair they got to have EuroWings, Transavia, Vueling, etc. Those are LCC brands, that's where those passengers will step on board. But remember, it has to be branded different from the mainline. That's a must in Europe. Brand Transavia as KLM and you lose passengers because KLM is not an LCC. The service level and prices may be the same, it doesn't matter. You need the Transavia brand to attract the passengers that you don't attract with the KLM brand.

There's no business case for Hop? Where's the business case for American Eagle, Delta Connection and United Express? It's exactly the same, no difference at all. The only brand that didn't have a business case is Joon, The rest may not have had a business case in America, but they definitely have a business case in Europe.
 
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Re: Official: Joon To Be Re-Absorbed Into Air France

Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:30 pm

LHRlocal wrote:
Well, they didn't last long, Surely this is too joon?....


I presume the last flight will be around Joon 1st? I guess we all foresaw that AF was headed towards this Joonction...

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PatrickZ80
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Re: Official: Joon To Be Re-Absorbed Into Air France

Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:32 pm

texl1649 wrote:
Exactly. No Euro legacy carrier has done real well with their LCC preemptive brands. Maybe IAG will get it figured out, but I'll remain a skeptic.


Again I have to disagree. Transavia for example does really well keeping passengers within the Air France-KLM group that otherwise would have flown EasyJet or Ryanair. Their financial results may not be the best, it doesn't matter. Their goal is to fight off the real LCCs and they're doing that successful.
 
senatorflyer
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Re: Official: Joon To Be Re-Absorbed Into Air France

Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:50 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
senatorflyer wrote:
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again. European airline managers are not good in strategic planning, streamlining and keeping the costs down.
There is no business case for the existence of Hop, Joon, Eurowings (Germanwings), Transavia, Level and all those other invented “let’s do some LCC stuff too” airlines.
Apart from adding complexity to the group structure and its processes it also costs an unnecessary amount of money to create and maintain a new brand while it is weakening the brand of the legacy carrier.
Pretty much all European legacy carriers have already HBO tariffs, most airlines also charge for food and drinks in economy. If one airline doesn’t want to ditch the catering completely then the Brussels Airlines way would have been the answer. Sell some cheap tickets without catering or even better, sell the catering during the booking process for economy for an additional charge. If one airline thinks labour costs are the issue, then just use a different legal entity to operate the flight.


Sorry, but I have to disagree. Your view of things may make sense in America, but Europe is something different. In Europe if you want to attract a LCC passenger, you got to have an LCC brand. They just won't settle for a legacy brand, it doesn't work that way. You can reduce the service level and ticket price of the legacy brand all you want, you're not going to attract that LCC passenger with it. They just don't fly legacy airlines, end of discussion. So to keep that passenger from flying EasyJet or Ryanair they got to have EuroWings, Transavia, Vueling, etc. Those are LCC brands, that's where those passengers will step on board. But remember, it has to be branded different from the mainline. That's a must in Europe. Brand Transavia as KLM and you lose passengers because KLM is not an LCC. The service level and prices may be the same, it doesn't matter. You need the Transavia brand to attract the passengers that you don't attract with the KLM brand.

There's no business case for Hop? Where's the business case for American Eagle, Delta Connection and United Express? It's exactly the same, no difference at all. The only brand that didn't have a business case is Joon, The rest may not have had a business case in America, but they definitely have a business case in Europe.


Well mate, I am European and your statement is a load of... those lcc brands only exist because the legacy carriers thought it is the only way to respond to EasyJet and co. Hop? Yes, waste of investment, Air France Regional would have been perfectly fine. Now since the legacy’s almost offer the same product there is no reason to have a LCC airline in the group. Keeping a separate brand alive costs so much more than serving a free sandwich or drink. I know, you love your LCC and don’t understand much of how a business or market works. But it is the sad reality that all this crap ideas are really expensive! Germanwings never earned any real money, then LH decided to move more flights to Germanwings, 5 months later they had the idea, let’s use Eurowings as a brand and the story goes on and on, with let’s do this, let’s do that while wasting loads of money. Now Eurowings offers the same business class seat as LH. Well done I call that!
 
senatorflyer
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Re: Official: Joon To Be Re-Absorbed Into Air France

Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:51 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
texl1649 wrote:
Exactly. No Euro legacy carrier has done real well with their LCC preemptive brands. Maybe IAG will get it figured out, but I'll remain a skeptic.


Again I have to disagree. Transavia for example does really well keeping passengers within the Air France-KLM group that otherwise would have flown EasyJet or Ryanair. Their financial results may not be the best, it doesn't matter. Their goal is to fight off the real LCCs and they're doing that successful.


If they don’t earn money, then no, they failed!
 
senatorflyer
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Re: Official: Joon To Be Re-Absorbed Into Air France

Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:26 pm

MartijnNL wrote:
senatorflyer wrote:
There is no business case for the existence of Hop, Joon, Eurowings (Germanwings), Transavia, Level and all those other invented “let’s do some LCC stuff too” airlines.

Transavia has flown for more than fifty years. Doesn't that prove there is a business case for this airline?

senatorflyer wrote:
Pretty much all European legacy carriers have already HBO tariffs, most airlines also charge for food and drinks in economy.

What are HBO tariffs? KLM, Lufthansa, Swiss, TAP (European legacy carriers I have flown in 2018) don't charge for food and drinks in economy.

senatorflyer wrote:
If one airline doesn’t want to ditch the catering completely then the Brussels Airlines way would have been the answer. Sell some cheap tickets without catering or even better, sell the catering during the booking process for economy for an additional charge.

I would never buy catering during the booking process. How do I know if I will be hungry or what I would like to have during a flight which is still months away when I book it?


HBO is hand luggage only. Pretty much all legacy airlines use those fares nowadays.

Following legacy airlines offer food for purchase:

- SAS
- Finnair
- BA
- Iberia
- Flybe
- Brussels Airlines
- Air Malta
- Aer Lingus
- Icelandair

And I am sure there are a few more. So basically from the bigger airline groups it’s AF/KLM and the Lufthansa Group who hasn’t started it yet.
 
CDGIAD
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Re: Official: Joon To Be Re-Absorbed Into Air France

Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:48 pm

Transavia is now profitable for the second year in a row I read in the annual report.
Besides from ORY it is the second or third biggest operator and enjoys a good reputation (friendly crew and cheaper fares).
Maybe they can use Transavia for Fortaleza or Seychelles which are clearly more O/D.

On the other hand Joon felt like a fraud for many passenger, you paid the same price as before (sometimes even more) to get BoB service and crew wearing tennis shoes.
French people are really attached to clothing and uniforms for some professions.
The problem was they booked an AF flight but didn't get the AF service.
This new brand was confusing and cheapening the brand.

From internal source, I know Joon allowed some routes to be profitable.
Joon's FA that will now work for AF will get the AF salary but a slower promotion and increase scheme.
 
senatorflyer
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Re: Official: Joon To Be Re-Absorbed Into Air France

Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:59 pm

CDGIAD wrote:
Transavia is now profitable for the second year in a row I read in the annual report.
Besides from ORY it is the second or third biggest operator and enjoys a good reputation (friendly crew and cheaper fares).
Maybe they can use Transavia for Fortaleza or Seychelles which are clearly more O/D.

On the other hand Joon felt like a fraud for many passenger, you paid the same price as before (sometimes even more) to get BoB service and crew wearing tennis shoes.
French people are really attached to clothing and uniforms for some professions.
The problem was they booked an AF flight but didn't get the AF service.
This new brand was confusing and cheapening the brand.

From internal source, I know Joon allowed some routes to be profitable.
Joon's FA that will now work for AF will get the AF salary but a slower promotion and increase scheme.


I haven’t seen the net profit published anywhere. Do you have any links?
 
CDGIAD
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Re: Official: Joon To Be Re-Absorbed Into Air France

Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:28 pm

You'll find it In the Annual Report, page 89.
Operating Profit of 81M€ in 2017

https://www.airfranceklm.com/en/system/ ... _0_1_0.pdf
 
senatorflyer
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Re: Official: Joon To Be Re-Absorbed Into Air France

Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:35 pm

CDGIAD wrote:
You'll find it In the Annual Report, page 89.
Operating Profit of 81M€ in 2017

https://www.airfranceklm.com/en/system/ ... _0_1_0.pdf


It’s the net profit I am after.
 
CDGIAD
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Re: Official: Joon To Be Re-Absorbed Into Air France

Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:53 pm

The net profit isn't published.
But as they leave all their planes, I don't think they have much financial expenses or exceptional result.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Official: Joon To Be Re-Absorbed Into Air France

Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:56 pm

So tens of millions down the drain. Brilliant move Air France.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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United787
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Re: Official: Joon To Be Re-Absorbed Into Air France

Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:05 pm

I feel like the US airlines went through their LCC experiments (Shuttle by United, TED, Song, MetroJet etc.) a while ago. They failed and the airlines eventually migrated to the decoupling of services instead which IMHO has allowed them to compete with B6, WN, F9 etc. and make more money at the same time. I wonder if EU airlines will eventually go down that same road or maybe the market is too different.
 
DeltaB717
Posts: 1682
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:49 am

Re: Official: Joon To Be Re-Absorbed Into Air France

Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:11 pm

TWA902fly wrote:
LHRlocal wrote:
Well, they didn't last long, Surely this is too joon?....


I presume the last flight will be around Joon 1st? I guess we all foresaw that AF was headed towards this Joonction...

'902


I would've thought Joon 30th, myself - the 'end of Joon'...
 
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Jamake1
Posts: 980
Joined: Mon May 17, 2004 2:30 pm

Re: Official: Joon To Be Re-Absorbed Into Air France

Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:24 pm

LHRlocal wrote:
Well, they didn't last long, Surely this is too joon?....


This made me laugh out loud... :lol:
Come fly the sun.
 
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usdcaguy
Posts: 1342
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2004 12:41 pm

Re: Official: Joon To Be Re-Absorbed Into Air France

Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:44 am

Why is it that Level can make this work but not Joon? Sounds like AF may have messed this up somehow and that it wasn't the idea that was bad but rather the management of the idea.
 
Jetty
Posts: 975
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:27 pm

Re: Official: Joon To Be Re-Absorbed Into Air France

Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:51 am

senatorflyer wrote:
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again. European airline managers are not good in strategic planning, streamlining and keeping the costs down.
There is no business case for the existence of Hop, Joon, Eurowings (Germanwings), Transavia, Level and all those other invented “let’s do some LCC stuff too” airlines.
Apart from adding complexity to the group structure and its processes it also costs an unnecessary amount of money to create and maintain a new brand while it is weakening the brand of the legacy carrier.
Pretty much all European legacy carriers have already HBO tariffs, most airlines also charge for food and drinks in economy. If one airline doesn’t want to ditch the catering completely then the Brussels Airlines way would have been the answer. Sell some cheap tickets without catering or even better, sell the catering during the booking process for economy for an additional charge. If one airline thinks labour costs are the issue, then just use a different legal entity to operate the flight.

You're forgetting a major issue: European unions. They often agree on a lower pay for new staff when they work for a new brand of the same company but cause a fuss when they fly the same planes. That's the whole point of all lowcost brands of the EU3. Whether that makes sense or not isn't relevant for the European airline managers you talk about; it's a reality they have to deal with. Apparently in Joon's case this advantage didn't offset the added costs but that doesn't make it an irrelevant factor in general.
 
Blerg
Posts: 2368
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Official: Joon To Be Re-Absorbed Into Air France

Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:25 am

usdcaguy wrote:
Why is it that Level can make this work but not Joon? Sounds like AF may have messed this up somehow and that it wasn't the idea that was bad but rather the management of the idea.


Maybe because Level primarily operates away from IB and BA hubs? They seem to be run like a separate brand in more competitive airports or where yields are lower. Joon on the other hand was supposed to co-exist with AF at their main hub.

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