asuflyer
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AA CR9 off runway at COU

Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:51 pm

A Mesa Airlines CRJ-900 N920FJ operating flight AA5766 from DFW ended up sliding off runway 02 upon exit at Columbia Regional Airport in Columbia, MO. At the time of the incident the airport was experiencing heavy snowfall. The emergency responders faced difficulty accessing the aircraft and the 80 pax were offloaded in threes. The passengers and crew were reportedly uninjured.

https://www.centralmoinfo.com/2019/01/1 ... a-airport/

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Flyingdevil737
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Re: AA CR9 off runway at COU

Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:57 pm

Before anyone else asks:

Is it a write off? ;)
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LoganTheBogan
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Re: AA CR9 off runway at COU

Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:57 pm

Hmmmm clearly a write off. CRJ line must be shutdown, AA most unsafe airline out there.......... ;)

All seriousness, glad to here everyone is alright. The snow looks pretty nasty. Then again, I come from the desert in Australia soooo.
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FA9295
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Re: AA CR9 off runway at COU

Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:00 pm

I'm surprised that the pilot decided to land the plane in that kind of weather. Then again, there probably isn't too many close options for diversion and not enough fuel to turn around back to DFW. Glad everyone's okay.
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bob75013
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Re: AA CR9 off runway at COU

Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:12 pm

FA9295 wrote:
I'm surprised that the pilot decided to land the plane in that kind of weather. Then again, there probably isn't too many close options for diversion and not enough fuel to turn around back to DFW. Glad everyone's okay.


Aircraft land in snow storms all the time. The plowed runway likely looked much better than the unplowed grass the aircraft ended up in.

Columbia to STL is about 100 miles -- easily could have diverted to the big airport that also happens to have a big AA presence..
 
Cubsrule
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Re: AA CR9 off runway at COU

Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:16 pm

bob75013 wrote:
FA9295 wrote:
I'm surprised that the pilot decided to land the plane in that kind of weather. Then again, there probably isn't too many close options for diversion and not enough fuel to turn around back to DFW. Glad everyone's okay.


Aircraft land in snow storms all the time. The plowed runway likely looked much better than the unplowed grass the aircraft ended up in.

Columbia to STL is about 100 miles -- easily could have diverted to the big airport.


Yup. The problem in snow is getting good information on runway conditions and braking action. It’s problematic even at busy airports (see WN 1248) and even more so at quiet airports like COU. The weather wasn’t terrible (the METAR 15 minutes afterwards was winds 120 at 6, one mile visibility, and 1,500 foot ceilings). But on a 6,500 foot runway, it’s easy to see how unexpectedly bad braking action can lead to this result.
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propmusic
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Re: AA CR9 off runway at COU

Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:34 pm

What ground speed does the CRJ have as a limit for reverser operation? Rather than depend on braking, why cant the reversers be operated until full stop. The turboprop Convair 580 could reverse virtually until full stop and even back up.
 
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CarlosSi
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Re: AA CR9 off runway at COU

Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:36 pm

Jokes about write-offs but none about raising the 1500 hour rule even further ;)
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: AA CR9 off runway at COU

Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:49 pm

propmusic wrote:
What ground speed does the CRJ have as a limit for reverser operation? Rather than depend on braking, why cant the reversers be operated until full stop. The turboprop Convair 580 could reverse virtually until full stop and even back up.


Usuallyback to idle reverse at 60 knots, but if you think you are going to overrun, keep the reverse thrust on. A lot of overruns, there was a delay in applying maximum braking or getting the spoilers out. I learned many years ago. TRs are nice, but maximum, I mean, standing on them, butt off off the seat bottom, braking stops airplanes.


GF
 
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SuseJ772
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Re: AA CR9 off runway at COU

Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:51 pm

I think I am more worried about why they had to evacuate in 3s. That seems odd to me.
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WeatherPilot
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Re: AA CR9 off runway at COU

Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:03 am

Apparently no one here has ever flown into SYR during Jan/Feb lake effect snow season.
 
CriticalPoint
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Re: AA CR9 off runway at COU

Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:05 am

propmusic wrote:
What ground speed does the CRJ have as a limit for reverser operation? Rather than depend on braking, why cant the reversers be operated until full stop. The turboprop Convair 580 could reverse virtually until full stop and even back up.

Thrust reversers for the most part are in effective at low ground speeds. there is nothing that prevents you from using them to a full stop they just aren’t effective. Turboprops are significantly different and work much better at slower groundspeeds.
Last edited by CriticalPoint on Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
tsra
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Re: AA CR9 off runway at COU

Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:23 am

SuseJ772 wrote:
I think I am more worried about why they had to evacuate in 3s. That seems odd to me.


I would guess they did not have a bus to get everyone off but rather a car or SUV that could only hold three people at a time.
 
alasizon
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Re: AA CR9 off runway at COU

Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:30 am

tsra wrote:
SuseJ772 wrote:
I think I am more worried about why they had to evacuate in 3s. That seems odd to me.


I would guess they did not have a bus to get everyone off but rather a car or SUV that could only hold three people at a time.


Either that or the rescue staff at the airport were limited and given the depth of the snow had to carry/assist the pax to whatever vehicle was waiting. The last thing you want during a non-emergency evac is for passengers to injure themselves by falling down a hole under the snow.
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Tucker1
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Re: AA CR9 off runway at COU

Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:53 am

Winter storm all around. Not much they can change.
 
kiowa
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Re: AA CR9 off runway at COU

Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:57 am

any pics?
 
D L X
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Re: AA CR9 off runway at COU

Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:03 am

CriticalPoint wrote:
propmusic wrote:
What ground speed does the CRJ have as a limit for reverser operation? Rather than depend on braking, why cant the reversers be operated until full stop. The turboprop Convair 580 could reverse virtually until full stop and even back up.

Thrust reversers for the most part are in effective at low ground speeds. there is nothing that prevents you from using them to a full stop they just aren’t effective. Turboprops are significantly different and work much better at slower groundspeeds.

I think rear engine T-tail jets do have a limiting configuration because the TR affects rudder function.
 
rbavfan
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Re: AA CR9 off runway at COU

Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:51 am

CarlosSi wrote:
Jokes about write-offs but none about raising the 1500 hour rule even further ;)


They slid on the ice upon EXIT from the runway. Happens all the time So are you going after Delta MD80 at LGA. DL had far more than 1500 hours & it was an overshoot as opposed to exiting the runway.
 
kabq737
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Re: AA CR9 off runway at COU

Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:56 am

CriticalPoint wrote:
propmusic wrote:
What ground speed does the CRJ have as a limit for reverser operation? Rather than depend on braking, why cant the reversers be operated until full stop. The turboprop Convair 580 could reverse virtually until full stop and even back up.

Thrust reversers for the most part are in effective at low ground speeds. there is nothing that prevents you from using them to a full stop they just aren’t effective. Turboprops are significantly different and work much better at slower groundspeeds.

Not to mention the CRJ isn’t exactly known for its thrust reversers...I’ve heard them described as being pretty ineffective by pretty much everyone I know who’s flown a CRJ.
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maps4ltd
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Re: AA CR9 off runway at COU

Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:59 am

I live in STL, and we're currently having a pretty bad snowstorm.
 
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September11
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Re: AA CR9 off runway at COU

Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:30 am

COU? 6,500 feet runway? Snowstorm? Well, the plane must have not come to a 3-5 seconds complete stop on runway before exiting.
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wjcandee
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Re: AA CR9 off runway at COU

Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:41 am

Apparently, few read the actual article and instead relied on the OP's description that of "sliding off of the runway" without noticing the "on exit".

The thing landed safely and the front wheels left the runway when turning off, according to the actual article. So the "why did they land when there was SNOW???!!!" questions are a little misplaced.

This isn't a "move along, nothing to see here", because the pax were mightily-inconvenienced. But it wasn't the accident of the century, either...
 
BobbyPSP
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Re: AA CR9 off runway at COU

Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:54 am

wjcandee wrote:
Apparently, few read the actual article and instead relied on the OP's description that of "sliding off of the runway" without noticing the "on exit".

The thing landed safely and the front wheels left the runway when turning off, according to the actual article. So the "why did they land when there was SNOW???!!!" questions are a little misplaced.

This isn't a "move along, nothing to see here", because the pax were mightily-inconvenienced. But it wasn't the accident of the century, either...


Thank you.
 
WPvsMW
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Re: AA CR9 off runway at COU

Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:56 am

"...when the airplane was exiting the main runway, the front gear left the pavement and the aircraft became stuck.:
So... how well was the exit plowed?

The faculty at U.Mo. journalism dept. must be groaning, hoping one of their grads didn't write that article. "runway", "exit", "taxiway"... same, same, right?
 
CriticalPoint
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Re: AA CR9 off runway at COU

Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:26 am

September11 wrote:
COU? 6,500 feet runway? Snowstorm? Well, the plane must have not come to a 3-5 seconds complete stop on runway before exiting.


Where did you get this procedure from?
 
Pontius
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Re: AA CR9 off runway at COU

Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:38 am

September11 wrote:
COU? 6,500 feet runway? Snowstorm? Well, the plane must have not come to a 3-5 seconds complete stop on runway before exiting.



It's a runway, not a 4-way stop.
 
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stl07
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Re: AA CR9 off runway at COU

Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:54 am

The fear of the passengers during the incident was probably nothing compared to the fear they experienced on the freeway going home.
None of the roads were plowed
 
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FA9295
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Re: AA CR9 off runway at COU

Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:41 am

kiowa wrote:
any pics?

The OP has one in their very first post on this thread.
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Trololzilla
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Re: AA CR9 off runway at COU

Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:02 am

SuseJ772 wrote:
I think I am more worried about why they had to evacuate in 3s. That seems odd to me.

Apparently they sent a bus but it too got stuck, so they were forced to use smaller vehicles.
 
ikramerica
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Re: AA CR9 off runway at COU

Sun Jan 13, 2019 8:48 pm

Honestly the thread title is completely misleading and click bait.

What looks to have happened is that the pilots mishandled the turn for whatever reason and the front wheels went off into what would normally be grass but instead was soft a snow covered mess. Maybe the conditions made it hard to see and the ground was slicker than expected and/or they gave it too much thrust or too high a taxi speed for the conditions.
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Ionosphere
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Re: AA CR9 off runway at COU

Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:43 pm

SuseJ772 wrote:
I think I am more worried about why they had to evacuate in 3s. That seems odd to me.


There's no buses at the COU airport. They probably used an SUV to drive people away.
 
evank516
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Re: AA CR9 off runway at COU

Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:50 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
bob75013 wrote:
FA9295 wrote:
I'm surprised that the pilot decided to land the plane in that kind of weather. Then again, there probably isn't too many close options for diversion and not enough fuel to turn around back to DFW. Glad everyone's okay.


Aircraft land in snow storms all the time. The plowed runway likely looked much better than the unplowed grass the aircraft ended up in.

Columbia to STL is about 100 miles -- easily could have diverted to the big airport.


Yup. The problem in snow is getting good information on runway conditions and braking action. It’s problematic even at busy airports (see WN 1248) and even more so at quiet airports like COU. The weather wasn’t terrible (the METAR 15 minutes afterwards was winds 120 at 6, one mile visibility, and 1,500 foot ceilings). But on a 6,500 foot runway, it’s easy to see how unexpectedly bad braking action can lead to this result.


Exactly. Look at what happened with DL1086 at LGA. Previous reports indicated good braking action, however that was more of a reverse thrust issue.
 
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fsx98
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Re: AA CR9 off runway at COU

Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:55 pm

Continuing from my locked thread: https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1413029

I have recently spotted this particular aircraft and saw it parked on the tarmac upon arrival at the airport; from what I can tell, it is getting inspected for any damage and getting prepped for ferry to DFW. Last time I checked flightaware.com for this particular aircraft, it has not yet departed COU, nor does it has a flight plan for the ferry flight to DFW.

As for aviation photography-wise, I couldn't get a good shot of the aircraft, as the pile of snow had obstructed my otherwise perfect view of the aircraft from the airport parking lot. The fence wasn't a problem as I have a lens that could shoot through it very well without the fencing obstructing the view of the lens, but the pile of snow inside the secured area along with the bunch of snow around the fence made it very impossible for me to take an unobstructed photo of the aircraft. I took a photo anyway with the pile of snow obstructing most of the view of the aircraft but was very disappointed overall with the trip because rarely any aircraft incidents of this size happen in a mid-sized city that doesn't experience much commercial aircraft traffic as would MCI or STL, and that I would like to photo an aircraft that was involved in an accident as proof that it happened.
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fsx98
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Re: AA CR9 off runway at COU

Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:55 pm

The accident aircraft is scheduled to ferry flight to DFW as of 1/21/19, 15:15CST; hasn't departed yet but it is expected to depart shortly...

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/ASH ... /KCOU/KDFW
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fsx98
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Re: AA CR9 off runway at COU

Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:12 pm

Update: AA9810 ferry flight now scheduled for departure at 16:45CST, 1/21/19; hasn't departed for about half an hour as of this post; there may be a slight possibility the flight may be cancelled, but I think departure is still a go...
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fsx98
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Re: AA CR9 off runway at COU

Tue Jan 22, 2019 2:02 am

Update: AA9810 ferry flight completed at DFW as of 19:41CST.
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USAirKid
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Re: AA CR9 off runway at COU

Tue Jan 22, 2019 7:00 am

fsx98 wrote:
Update: AA9810 ferry flight completed at DFW as of 19:41CST.


Looks like it was actually YV9810, since its a ferry flight, AA doesn't put its code on it.

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