sargester
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Is US3 service to Vero Beach (VRB) possible?

Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:54 pm

For years I've been coming to Vero and the Treasure Coast area having to fly into MLB/MCO/PBI and I was thinking with the way that how air service to smaller cities has recovered in recent time is service to VRB possible? The area is a big gap in Florida for air service between MLB and PBI and has plenty of residents that would be willing to fly out of VRB if service came, other than Elite with service up north on a weekly basis, would it be theoretical for DL to fly ATL-VRB and AA CLT-VRB? Not saying that they would need any more service other than to those hubs, I would say for DL it's a CR9/717 sized market and for AA would be CR2/CR7 but other than my opinion, with some of the more affluent areas of Florida being in Indian River County, I would be willing to bet that service in this area would succeed, again that just being my opinion, anyone here recall the last time VRB was served by a large US carrier?

Thanks lads, Thoughts?
 
MO11
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Re: Is US3 service to Vero Beach (VRB) possible?

Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:16 pm

I seem to remember Eastern running a Convair 440 on a multi-stop route between JAX and MIA,with VRB being one of the stops. This ran into the late '60s.

VRB is within a reasonable driving distance of a other airports with nonstop flights to several destinations. There would be little added value for a flight to a connecting hub; fares to points beyond the hub would certainly be higher than those for nonstop flights from neighbor cities. Would it be convenient? Sure. A good use of resources? Probably not.
 
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HenryMemphis
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Re: Is US3 service to Vero Beach (VRB) possible?

Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:42 pm

USAir in the late 80's and early 90's flew Beech C99's and 1900's in and out of VRB.
Looks like AA Eagle did something for a short time as well.

https://www.sunshineskies.com/verobeach.html
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Is US3 service to Vero Beach (VRB) possible?

Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:10 pm

For sure not the US3, they stick to the primary airports. However I could see for example Allegiant giving it a go.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Is US3 service to Vero Beach (VRB) possible?

Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:15 pm

The BEST thing about VRB is that the nearest commercial airport is a good drive away, keeps the small town feel that is gone in so many Florida locales.

GF
 
wingsofman72
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Re: Is US3 service to Vero Beach (VRB) possible?

Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:37 pm

I did a trip report awhile ago on some of the last service to VRB by EA in 1972. That was just a few months before they dropped the service with the retirement of the Electra.

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1353963
 
phlphan
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Re: Is US3 service to Vero Beach (VRB) possible?

Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:11 pm

MLB is only 40-45 miles away from Vero Beach.
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: Is US3 service to Vero Beach (VRB) possible?

Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:34 am

wingsofman72 wrote:
I did a trip report awhile ago on some of the last service to VRB by EA in 1972. That was just a few months before they dropped the service with the retirement of the Electra.

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1353963


I was going to mention EA but you took care of that. I believe the MIA-VRB-TPA flight was EA’s last non-Northeast Shuttle flight operated by the Electra.
 
FlyBitcoin
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Re: Is US3 service to Vero Beach (VRB) possible?

Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:46 am

No spring training in Vero Beach since 2008. Somehow I bet if the Dodgers were still training there, we would be seeing some US3 aircraft at least in February and March.
Seems like the community would prefer to remain quiet and not grow as a tourism center.
The Disney resort there is a gem, and even that was planned to be much larger and was never finished.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Is US3 service to Vero Beach (VRB) possible?

Sun Jan 13, 2019 11:03 am

phlphan wrote:
MLB is only 40-45 miles away from Vero Beach.


36.5 miles, 49 minutes according to Google Maps, airport to airport. MLB has 4x MD-88 DL to ATL tomorrow (a Monday), and AA CR7/9s to CLT. The area is not underserved.
 
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AVLAirlineFreq
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Re: Is US3 service to Vero Beach (VRB) possible?

Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:05 pm

Elite Airways still runs EWR-VRB, don't they? I know they still do AVL-VRB summer and fall seasonal.
 
727LOVER
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Re: Is US3 service to Vero Beach (VRB) possible?

Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:15 pm

AVLAirlineFreq wrote:
Elite Airways still runs EWR-VRB, don't they? I know they still do AVL-VRB summer and fall seasonal.


Last year they WERE running VRB to 4 destinations....now, just EWR


G4 would be nice, but if Vero Beach is not really a tourist mecca.....
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
sargester
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Re: Is US3 service to Vero Beach (VRB) possible?

Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:24 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
phlphan wrote:
MLB is only 40-45 miles away from Vero Beach.


36.5 miles, 49 minutes according to Google Maps, airport to airport. MLB has 4x MD-88 DL to ATL tomorrow (a Monday), and AA CR7/9s to CLT. The area is not underserved.


Serves a different area, same could be said for the St. Augustine area having to use either JAX or DAB, their is always room for more service in an area were people would be willing to pay imo
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Is US3 service to Vero Beach (VRB) possible?

Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:41 pm

727LOVER wrote:
G4 would be nice, but if Vero Beach is not really a tourist mecca.....


But in order to become a tourist mecca, first there need to be flights. I mean, it looks like a nice place that would sure draw some tourists if they could get there easily. But if it's too inconvenient to get there, they go somewhere else. Vero Beach is not the only nice place in the world.
 
silentbob
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Re: Is US3 service to Vero Beach (VRB) possible?

Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:36 pm

Airlines could probably fill a flight or two, but it would likely just cannibalize their existing service. With only a couple flights per day, they couldn't spread the costs across many seats and most people would continue to use the other airports in order to save money. In the end, it's a lot of work, a lot of expense and a low chance of paying off.
 
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longhauler
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Re: Is US3 service to Vero Beach (VRB) possible?

Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:03 pm

Having lived through "deregulation", I note that today one element is not readily apparent. Yes, every US airline could now fly to anywhere they wanted in the US and charge what they wanted, but there was a darker side. That is, airlines could now drop flying that was not profitable. Before deregulation, that was not allowed and applications had to be made and approved.

As a result, it seemed like for every $99 flight on a DC-8 from JFK to LAX that appeared, another small American town lost its large airline service.

It would appear Vero Beach was one of those casualties.

wingsofman72 wrote:
I did a trip report awhile ago on some of the last service to VRB by EA in 1972. That was just a few months before they dropped the service with the retirement of the Electra.

Yes, and that report remains one of my favourites.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
evank516
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Re: Is US3 service to Vero Beach (VRB) possible?

Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:53 pm

If MLB is roughly a 49 minute drive from the Vero Beach area I really don't see the need for any US3 flights out of VRB. It's also not like MLB is a giant airport with horrible lines and congestion. It's a rather small airport itself that is very easy to use based on what I've seen.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Is US3 service to Vero Beach (VRB) possible?

Wed Jan 16, 2019 3:08 pm

VRB is a nice place and it doesn’t deserve a flood of tourists invading a quiet town. Ft Myers built RSW 35 years ago-it went from a pleasant Florida town to a overrun mess. Naples has even grown too much and it’s about the same distance as MLB-VRB by car.

Get off my lawn....

GF
 
TWFlyGuy
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Re: Is US3 service to Vero Beach (VRB) possible?

Wed Jan 16, 2019 3:20 pm

evank516 wrote:
If MLB is roughly a 49 minute drive from the Vero Beach area I really don't see the need for any US3 flights out of VRB. It's also not like MLB is a giant airport with horrible lines and congestion. It's a rather small airport itself that is very easy to use based on what I've seen.


Couldn't the same be said for HHH/SAV? It's not like SAV is bursting at the seams yet the US3 are soon going to be in a dog fight over HHH service.
 
USAirALB
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Re: Is US3 service to Vero Beach (VRB) possible?

Wed Jan 16, 2019 3:38 pm

IIRC US was still serving VRB via MCO/MLB/TPA with B1900s until the late 90s.
RJ85, F70, E135, E140, E145, E70, E75, E90, CR2, CR7, CR9, 717, 732, 733, 734, 735, 73G, 738, 739, 744, 752, 753, 762, 772, 77E, 77W, 789, 319, 320, 321, 332, 333, 343, 359, 388
 
evank516
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Re: Is US3 service to Vero Beach (VRB) possible?

Wed Jan 16, 2019 3:41 pm

TWFlyGuy wrote:
evank516 wrote:
If MLB is roughly a 49 minute drive from the Vero Beach area I really don't see the need for any US3 flights out of VRB. It's also not like MLB is a giant airport with horrible lines and congestion. It's a rather small airport itself that is very easy to use based on what I've seen.


Couldn't the same be said for HHH/SAV? It's not like SAV is bursting at the seams yet the US3 are soon going to be in a dog fight over HHH service.


I suppose, but SAV is more of a primary market with more air service than MLB is. MLB is still somewhat of a secondary airport to MCO making VRB even more tertiary in the line up. SAV has no larger alternate airport. HHH is the secondary airport.

Don't get me wrong, it would be great to see a few DL flights from ATL and/or some AA flights from CLT. It really would, and the two carriers could probably get a nice little premium on those flights. However with MLB so close and it not being so large, it could very well cannibalize the traffic.
 
TWFlyGuy
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Re: Is US3 service to Vero Beach (VRB) possible?

Wed Jan 16, 2019 4:49 pm

evank516 wrote:
TWFlyGuy wrote:
evank516 wrote:
If MLB is roughly a 49 minute drive from the Vero Beach area I really don't see the need for any US3 flights out of VRB. It's also not like MLB is a giant airport with horrible lines and congestion. It's a rather small airport itself that is very easy to use based on what I've seen.


Couldn't the same be said for HHH/SAV? It's not like SAV is bursting at the seams yet the US3 are soon going to be in a dog fight over HHH service.


I suppose, but SAV is more of a primary market with more air service than MLB is. MLB is still somewhat of a secondary airport to MCO making VRB even more tertiary in the line up. SAV has no larger alternate airport. HHH is the secondary airport.

Don't get me wrong, it would be great to see a few DL flights from ATL and/or some AA flights from CLT. It really would, and the two carriers could probably get a nice little premium on those flights. However with MLB so close and it not being so large, it could very well cannibalize the traffic.


Point taken...I was merely saying the distance isn't the issue so much as the demand as the US3 have shown that isn't the barrier.
 
evank516
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Re: Is US3 service to Vero Beach (VRB) possible?

Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:02 pm

TWFlyGuy wrote:
evank516 wrote:
TWFlyGuy wrote:

Couldn't the same be said for HHH/SAV? It's not like SAV is bursting at the seams yet the US3 are soon going to be in a dog fight over HHH service.


I suppose, but SAV is more of a primary market with more air service than MLB is. MLB is still somewhat of a secondary airport to MCO making VRB even more tertiary in the line up. SAV has no larger alternate airport. HHH is the secondary airport.

Don't get me wrong, it would be great to see a few DL flights from ATL and/or some AA flights from CLT. It really would, and the two carriers could probably get a nice little premium on those flights. However with MLB so close and it not being so large, it could very well cannibalize the traffic.


Point taken...I was merely saying the distance isn't the issue so much as the demand as the US3 have shown that isn't the barrier.


It isn't a barrier, but I think in terms of VRB, it's more the idea that VRB is just too much of a tertiary market in the general region since a secondary airport is already served nearby. It would probably be different if MCO wasn't in the equation where MLB was primary and VRB was secondary, however I do agree that there is a rather large gap between MLB and PBI. Makes me wonder if FPR is fully Part 139 Compliant and can accept commercial air service. That might be a better argument if so even though VRB already sees some sort of commercial air service. Plus not that this is a real reason to suddenly add flights to an airport, but there is a Club Med not far from FPR.
 
ScottB
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Re: Is US3 service to Vero Beach (VRB) possible?

Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:34 pm

longhauler wrote:
It would appear Vero Beach was one of those casualties.


But with the completion of the Interstate Highway System as well as ongoing improvements of the road network, the reduction or elimination of service in some small communities isn't necessarily as harmful as it once might have been. Does HGR really need airline service when BWI is about 75 minutes away? Does GON with both PVD and BDL within an hour?

sargester wrote:
For years I've been coming to Vero and the Treasure Coast area having to fly into MLB/MCO/PBI and I was thinking with the way that how air service to smaller cities has recovered in recent time is service to VRB possible? The area is a big gap in Florida for air service between MLB and PBI and has plenty of residents that would be willing to fly out of VRB if service came


I think the problem for VRB is twofold: First, the traffic is heavily leisure-focused and many customers will instead choose to use MLB/MCO/PBI if fares are lower at any of those airports. Given that both MCO and PBI also have non-stops to a far broader set of destinations, the inconvenience of a drive to a larger airport is also often outweighed by the convenience and lower risk of misconnections/delays when going non-stop. Second, traffic to Florida leisure markets is highly seasonal, so it's very likely that this service would be money-losing during the off seasons. MLB likely manages to support service thanks to a somewhat higher mix of government and business (i.e. Harris Corporation) traffic.
 
evank516
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Re: Is US3 service to Vero Beach (VRB) possible?

Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:40 pm

ScottB wrote:
longhauler wrote:
It would appear Vero Beach was one of those casualties.


But with the completion of the Interstate Highway System as well as ongoing improvements of the road network, the reduction or elimination of service in some small communities isn't necessarily as harmful as it once might have been. Does HGR really need airline service when BWI is about 75 minutes away? Does GON with both PVD and BDL within an hour?

GON doesn't have any commercial air service, not sure why you included that when HGR actually does.
 
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STT757
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Re: Is US3 service to Vero Beach (VRB) possible?

Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:41 pm

What about service to Naples Florda? There used to be commuter prop service in the '80s and '90s, it has more of a tourist draw then VRB due to it's proximity to Marco Island.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
ScottB
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Re: Is US3 service to Vero Beach (VRB) possible?

Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:58 pm

evank516 wrote:
GON doesn't have any commercial air service, not sure why you included that when HGR actually does.


GON did have commercial air service up until about 20 years ago; HGR has service only because of EAS.
 
evank516
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Re: Is US3 service to Vero Beach (VRB) possible?

Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:42 pm

ScottB wrote:
evank516 wrote:
GON doesn't have any commercial air service, not sure why you included that when HGR actually does.


GON did have commercial air service up until about 20 years ago; HGR has service only because of EAS.


HGR has Allegiant as well. That is not EAS. GON hasn't seen anything in recent times.

STT757 wrote:
What about service to Naples Florda? There used to be commuter prop service in the '80s and '90s, it has more of a tourist draw then VRB due to it's proximity to Marco Island.


Delta attempted flights from Atlanta in the 2000s only to end service. Don't think it made the money they wanted.

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