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Kadish
Topic Author
Posts: 369
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:36 am

MAD breaks its pax record

Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:10 pm

MAD has increased its numbers 8% to reach more than 57 million pax.
Do you think it is reaching its limits?
What is the main gap in terms of routes? IMO someone should cover Africa taking into account that it is ideally located to link Europe/North America with Aftica

Link in spanish: https://www.lavanguardia.com/local/madr ... toria.html
 
Luisvalero
Posts: 207
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2017 11:14 pm

Re: MAD breaks its pax record

Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:57 am

Main gaps: IAH, BOM, BKK, SIN, CAN

Less important but also needed routes: YVR, YUL (year-round), IAD (year-round), MCO, DTW, DEN, GDL, MTY, CTG, BSB, ABJ, ACC, LOS, NBO, MCT, KWI, IKA, SGN, HAN, KUL, DPS, MNL, TPE, KIX
 
User avatar
LAX772LR
Posts: 13201
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: MAD breaks its pax record

Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:37 am

Still quite surprised that no one flies IAH-MAD, despite DFW being right there.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
continental004
Posts: 425
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2014 11:53 pm

Re: MAD breaks its pax record

Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:56 am

LAX772LR wrote:
Still quite surprised that no one flies IAH-MAD, despite DFW being right there.


DFW-MAD is OW hub-OW hub. There’s no meaningful Star feed at the MAD end. It would be a great link to Mexico and Central America though, but of course not ideal for connections because ‘Murica.
 
Jetty
Posts: 1283
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:27 pm

Re: MAD breaks its pax record

Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:51 am

Kadish wrote:
Do you think it is reaching its limits?

I can’t imagine that to be the case. Last years growth looks good, but there was no growth between 2007 and 2017 making it the worst performing European mega hub by far growth-wise.
 
LupineChemist
Posts: 821
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2015 9:03 am

Re: MAD breaks its pax record

Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:21 am

MAD is nowhere close to its limits. It's got good geography, good weather, terminals right between two sets of parallel runways so it's relatively efficient in either configuration.

The old terminal is scheduled for a remodel and T4 is easy enough to expand if they need it at minimal cost. Madrid is also about to start a massive redevelopment project which will also increase the demand. Will be curious if IB goes for W. African connections or will cede that to AT.
 
Kadish
Topic Author
Posts: 369
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:36 am

Re: MAD breaks its pax record

Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:30 am

LupineChemist wrote:
MAD is nowhere close to its limits. It's got good geography, good weather, terminals right between two sets of parallel runways so it's relatively efficient in either configuration.

The old terminal is scheduled for a remodel and T4 is easy enough to expand if they need it at minimal cost. Madrid is also about to start a massive redevelopment project which will also increase the demand. Will be curious if IB goes for W. African connections or will cede that to AT.


IMO IB or UX should cover the gap in Africa and not let that cake to AT. I think IB is committing a big mistake not opening routes there...they could do it with smaller and more efficients planes
( C Series/320/1 neo) than its competitors. For instance IB will add 3 more flights to DKR
 
upperdeckfan
Posts: 1062
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2007 1:59 am

Re: MAD breaks its pax record

Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:53 am

Jetty wrote:
Kadish wrote:
Do you think it is reaching its limits?

I can’t imagine that to be the case. Last years growth looks good, but there was no growth between 2007 and 2017 making it the worst performing European mega hub by far growth-wise.


Can you provide a source?

Sources I have report steady yearly growth since their lowest in 2013 when it was around 40 mill pax
748,744,742,741,772,773,762,763,
764, 789, 732,733,735,737,738,739,
752, 722, 717,74M,DC10,DC9,M82,
M83, M87, M88,310,319,320,321,332,
333, 343, 346,359,388,L1011,CR2,
CR7, CR9,CRK, E175,E190,ATR42,
DSH8, CS1,CS3
 
SCQ83
Posts: 5675
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:32 pm

Re: MAD breaks its pax record

Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:16 am

Jetty wrote:
I can’t imagine that to be the case. Last years growth looks good, but there was no growth between 2007 and 2017 making it the worst performing European mega hub by far growth-wise.


Also the high speed train had a major effect. The Madrid-Barcelona HSL opened in 2008. Now it takes half of the traffix in what once was Europe’s busiest air route.

After 2008 new HSL routes were opened to Málaga, Alicante and Valencia. Specially for Alicante and Valencia (HSL between 1h30 and 2h00), O&D traffic dissappeared and just survive on connections.

The only remaining HSL are to LCG, SCQ, OVD, SDR and BIO which will be fully operational in 2-3 years.

International traffic has more than doubled between 2008 and 2018. Without HSL, MAD would be already over 70M PAX
 
Kadish
Topic Author
Posts: 369
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:36 am

Re: MAD breaks its pax record

Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:09 am

SCQ83 wrote:
Jetty wrote:
I can’t imagine that to be the case. Last years growth looks good, but there was no growth between 2007 and 2017 making it the worst performing European mega hub by far growth-wise.


Also the high speed train had a major effect. The Madrid-Barcelona HSL opened in 2008. Now it takes half of the traffix in what once was Europe’s busiest air route.

After 2008 new HSL routes were opened to Málaga, Alicante and Valencia. Specially for Alicante and Valencia (HSL between 1h30 and 2h00), O&D traffic dissappeared and just survive on connections.

The only remaining HSL are to LCG, SCQ, OVD, SDR and BIO which will be fully operational in 2-3 years.

International traffic has more than doubled between 2008 and 2018. Without HSL, MAD would be already over 70M PAX


Prove me wrong, but I heard long time ago that the MAD-BCN route was the busiest in the world.
 
jmmadrid
Posts: 343
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2016 4:00 pm

Re: MAD breaks its pax record

Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:15 am

It seems that in 2018, the HSL was used by 10 million passengers in the Madrid-Barcelona route alone. If the HSL did not exist, these people would have flown and would be counted in MAD's figures.
 
LupineChemist
Posts: 821
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2015 9:03 am

Re: MAD breaks its pax record

Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:37 pm

Kadish wrote:
SCQ83 wrote:
Jetty wrote:
I can’t imagine that to be the case. Last years growth looks good, but there was no growth between 2007 and 2017 making it the worst performing European mega hub by far growth-wise.


Also the high speed train had a major effect. The Madrid-Barcelona HSL opened in 2008. Now it takes half of the traffix in what once was Europe’s busiest air route.

After 2008 new HSL routes were opened to Málaga, Alicante and Valencia. Specially for Alicante and Valencia (HSL between 1h30 and 2h00), O&D traffic dissappeared and just survive on connections.

The only remaining HSL are to LCG, SCQ, OVD, SDR and BIO which will be fully operational in 2-3 years.

International traffic has more than doubled between 2008 and 2018. Without HSL, MAD would be already over 70M PAX


Prove me wrong, but I heard long time ago that the MAD-BCN route was the busiest in the world.


Feeling way too lazy to look it up but I could have sworn it was GMP-CJU
 
migair54
Posts: 2439
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:24 am

Re: MAD breaks its pax record

Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:46 pm

jmmadrid wrote:
It seems that in 2018, the HSL was used by 10 million passengers in the Madrid-Barcelona route alone. If the HSL did not exist, these people would have flown and would be counted in MAD's figures.


And some other train routes, not only BCN.

Luisvalero wrote:
Main gaps: IAH, BOM, BKK, SIN, CAN

Less important but also needed routes: YVR, YUL (year-round), IAD (year-round), MCO, DTW, DEN, GDL, MTY, CTG, BSB, ABJ, ACC, LOS, NBO, MCT, KWI, IKA, SGN, HAN, KUL, DPS, MNL, TPE, KIX




I think CAN will happen soon with China Southern, BKK and SIN are former destinations, however I am not sure if we will see any of them soon, difficult to fight with ME3 and Turkish on that ones, and IAH is in a not very convenient place to offer connections to other USA destinations and the transit visa issue for central America is also a hurdle, BOM could be a nice addition for IB in the future.
Some airports in the less important route don't make much sense, like SGN, HAN, DPS, MNL, MCT, no chance to have a link to MAD any time soon, some of them have very little fligths to Europe.

As someone has posted before, I have been saying that MAD is in a perfect position to offer more west African destinations, it's within the reach of the A320 family and they can offer good connections via T4 mainly to Europe, USA and some Asia destinations. And not only for pax but also for cargo, very lucrative market in some destinations.

LupineChemist wrote:
MAD is nowhere close to its limits. It's got good geography, good weather, terminals right between two sets of parallel runways so it's relatively efficient in either configuration.

And one of the only hubs in Europe that is 24 hours, most of the others have night curfew.
 
SCQ83
Posts: 5675
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:32 pm

Re: MAD breaks its pax record

Wed Jan 16, 2019 4:05 pm

I don't get this obsession with Western Africa.

Those are minuscule markets (just look at the PAX numbers of those airports). RAM in Oneworld would be the perfect complement for both MAD and LHR.

Maybe resuming Lagos could be logical, but I don't see the need to hunt smaller markets. Iberia is not TAP selling ultra cheap connections like there is no tomorrow.
 
Kadish
Topic Author
Posts: 369
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:36 am

Re: MAD breaks its pax record

Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:38 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
I don't get this obsession with Western Africa.

Those are minuscule markets (just look at the PAX numbers of those airports). RAM in Oneworld would be the perfect complement for both MAD and LHR.

Maybe resuming Lagos could be logical, but I don't see the need to hunt smaller markets. Iberia is not TAP selling ultra cheap connections like there is no tomorrow.

It is not an obsession, it is an idea ( not needed for IB people) about a possible expansion due to the fact that America and Europe is more or less well covered and Asia it is a hard market cause TK and ME3 competition...so IMO the chances could be there

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