BML87
Topic Author
Posts: 58
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2017 6:55 pm

Air Canada Possible New Routes (A220)

Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:37 am

YVR-IAD, YHZ
YYC-IAD, BOS
YYZ-SJC, MTY
YUL-SEA

Image
 
User avatar
FA9295
Posts: 1770
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2016 7:44 pm

Re: Air Canada Possible New Routes (A220)

Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:42 am

YUL-SEA is certainly surprising to see.
 
Noise
Posts: 2455
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 1999 7:38 am

Re: Air Canada Possible New Routes (A220)

Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:53 am

FA9295 wrote:
YUL-SEA is certainly surprising to see.


Really?

SEA and SAN are the two largest US MARKETS not served nonstop from YUL.
 
LH658
Posts: 1049
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2016 7:35 am

Re: Air Canada Possible New Routes (A220)

Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:16 am

YVR - IAH, YEG - IAH
 
User avatar
BWIAirport
Posts: 818
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2016 10:29 pm

Re: Air Canada Possible New Routes (A220)

Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:41 am

Since they just added YUL-BWI, I could see them trying YVR or YYC (or even YHZ)-BWI. I’m not sure how those BWI-YYZ/YUL flights are doing though.
Next flight: October 17 DL2641 BWI-ATL B739
October 17 DL2607 ATL-TPA B752

SWA, UAL, DAL, AWE, ASA, TRS, DLH, CLH, AFR, BAW, EIN, AAL | E190 DC94 CRJ2 B712 B733 B737 B738 B739 B744 B752 B753 B762 B77W A319 A320 A321 A333 A343 A388 MD88
 
Dominion301
Posts: 2230
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:48 pm

Re: Air Canada Possible New Routes (A220)

Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:55 am

BWIAirport wrote:
Since they just added YUL-BWI, I could see them trying YVR or YYC (or even YHZ)-BWI. I’m not sure how those BWI-YYZ/YUL flights are doing though.


Not a chance. If YVR or YYC ever see Washington service, it’ll be to IAD for the UA hookup.

All of the domestic red is existing mainline except YWG-YOW, which hasn’t seen mainline on it in years, which quite frankly has been a head scratcher to me, especially in summer.
 
BoeingGuy
Posts: 6314
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:01 pm

Re: Air Canada Possible New Routes (A220)

Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:02 am

SJC-YYZ would be a resumption of that route. AC flew it around 2000.
 
n2dru
Posts: 135
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:02 am

Re: Air Canada Possible New Routes (A220)

Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:51 am

Does anyone think they would ever serve ATL from YUL again? DL currently has the monopoly.
 
flyoregon
Posts: 723
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2015 5:29 pm

Re: Air Canada Possible New Routes (A220)

Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:12 am

Noise wrote:
FA9295 wrote:
YUL-SEA is certainly surprising to see.


Really?

SEA and SAN are the two largest US MARKETS not served nonstop from YUL.


Maybe so, but SEA only has seasonal service to YYC on AC. Just because it’s a large market unserved, doesn’t mean there is a huge market for an airline to service it.
 
master14225
Posts: 180
Joined: Fri May 04, 2018 6:38 am

Re: Air Canada Possible New Routes (A220)

Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:37 am

I'm surprised as to why YVR-MCO or YVR-FLL can't work with the A220? Do people in Vancouver just go down to SEA and fly to Florida?
 
whywhyzee
Posts: 1037
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:12 am

Re: Air Canada Possible New Routes (A220)

Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:25 pm

flyoregon wrote:
Noise wrote:
FA9295 wrote:
YUL-SEA is certainly surprising to see.


Really?

SEA and SAN are the two largest US MARKETS not served nonstop from YUL.


Maybe so, but SEA only has seasonal service to YYC on AC. Just because it’s a large market unserved, doesn’t mean there is a huge market for an airline to service it.


AC still serves SEA extensively from YVR and at minimum daily on mainline from YYZ, so they have a fairly sizeable presence in the market. Adding a YUL flight would compliment that. They have the experience to know and understand the market dynamics.
 
whywhyzee
Posts: 1037
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:12 am

Re: Air Canada Possible New Routes (A220)

Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:26 pm

master14225 wrote:
I'm surprised as to why YVR-MCO or YVR-FLL can't work with the A220? Do people in Vancouver just go down to SEA and fly to Florida?


Florida is a huge distance from YVR, I'm not sure what it's actually draw is. Nevertheless, those would be Rouge routes for certain, and they aren't slated to get any CSeries at this time.
 
B752OS
Posts: 1169
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 4:05 am

Re: Air Canada Possible New Routes (A220)

Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:37 pm

Are the routes in red the ones that are slated to see the 220? Ones in blue are potential new routes with the 220?
 
LH423
Posts: 5921
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 1999 6:27 am

Re: Air Canada Possible New Routes (A220)

Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:06 pm

B752OS wrote:
Are the routes in red the ones that are slated to see the 220? Ones in blue are potential new routes with the 220?


If I'm interpreting the text on the slide correctly in tandem with the map, that's effectively it. The blue lines are possible new routes that could be started using the A220. The red lines are existing routes that may see some or all flights on the city pair taken over by A220s.

LH423
« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
 
csweet
Posts: 85
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2018 2:49 pm

Re: Air Canada Possible New Routes (A220)

Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:11 pm

master14225 wrote:
I'm surprised as to why YVR-MCO or YVR-FLL can't work with the A220? Do people in Vancouver just go down to SEA and fly to Florida?


Living in YVR, it is much easier to get a direct to AZ or SOCA instead of spending 13+hours trying to get to southern Florida. AS does fly direct to FLL from SEA, but still a much longer flight than hopping down to Palm Springs or San Diego.
 
BoeingGuy
Posts: 6314
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:01 pm

Re: Air Canada Possible New Routes (A220)

Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:22 pm

flyoregon wrote:
Noise wrote:
FA9295 wrote:
YUL-SEA is certainly surprising to see.


Really?

SEA and SAN are the two largest US MARKETS not served nonstop from YUL.


Maybe so, but SEA only has seasonal service to YYC on AC. Just because it’s a large market unserved, doesn’t mean there is a huge market for an airline to service it.


SEA-YYC has multiple daily flights on AS so there is a decent market. I understand the point you are trying to make, but SEA-YYC is not a good example. AC would have a monopoly on SEA-YUL.
 
divemaster08
Posts: 185
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:45 pm

Re: Air Canada Possible New Routes (A220)

Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:45 pm

Dam, was hoping to see it down here in GCM when they replace the A319/E190s. Although over the last few months we have seen the A320 but I would think its just over the busy winter period and we will see the E190 again soon.
My dream, is to fly, over the rainbow, so high!
 
EMB170
Posts: 325
Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2007 1:16 pm

Re: Air Canada Possible New Routes (A220)

Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:46 pm

n2dru wrote:
Does anyone think they would ever serve ATL from YUL again? DL currently has the monopoly.


Doubt it. YUL-ATL can't be bigger than YYZ-ATL and AC doesn't even serve that route with mainline. Operates with Express E75s.
IND ORD ATL MCO PIT EWR BUF CVG DEN RNO JFK DTW BOS BDL BWI IAD RDU CLT MYR CHS TPA CID MSP STL MSY DFW IAH AUS SLC LAS
 
master14225
Posts: 180
Joined: Fri May 04, 2018 6:38 am

Re: Air Canada Possible New Routes (A220)

Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:13 pm

But people in YYZ go to not only FL destinations but places like LAS, PHX, SAN, PSP, etc. all the time. If the west coast sun destinations can work from YYZ, I think there's potential from YVR to at least MCO & FLL. YYC has year round flights to MCO with WS and YVR is a way bigger market than YYC.

csweet wrote:
master14225 wrote:
I'm surprised as to why YVR-MCO or YVR-FLL can't work with the A220? Do people in Vancouver just go down to SEA and fly to Florida?


Living in YVR, it is much easier to get a direct to AZ or SOCA instead of spending 13+hours trying to get to southern Florida. AS does fly direct to FLL from SEA, but still a much longer flight than hopping down to Palm Springs or San Diego.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 25697
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

Re: Air Canada Possible New Routes (A220)

Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:17 pm

master14225 wrote:
I'm surprised as to why YVR-MCO or YVR-FLL can't work with the A220? Do people in Vancouver just go down to SEA and fly to Florida?


I don't think an A220 can make it that far?

Miami-Vancouver though is the single largest U.S.-Canada market without a non-stop, and MIA/FLL have extensive Canada service - YYZ, YUL, YHM, YYC, YYT, YWG, YYC, YEG, YQB, YOW, YHZ, some of those smaller than MIA/FLL-YVR.
a.
 
georgiabill
Posts: 1192
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2003 11:53 pm

Re: Air Canada Possible New Routes (A220)

Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:20 pm

Hopefully AC will consider using their A220 on a YVR-BOS-YVR daily seasonal and 3x or 4x for the rest of the year.
 
Dominion301
Posts: 2230
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:48 pm

Re: Air Canada Possible New Routes (A220)

Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:24 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
master14225 wrote:
I'm surprised as to why YVR-MCO or YVR-FLL can't work with the A220? Do people in Vancouver just go down to SEA and fly to Florida?


I don't think an A220 can make it that far?

Miami-Vancouver though is the single largest U.S.-Canada market without a non-stop, and MIA/FLL have extensive Canada service - YYZ, YUL, YHM, YYC, YYT, YWG, YYC, YEG, YQB, YOW, YHZ, some of those smaller than MIA/FLL-YVR.


Yeah but all of those are east of YWG. It's the same reason why YOW-PHX or YQB-LAS don't exist, yet YQR-PHX and YXE-LAS do. YOW-PHX and YOW-LAS almost certainly have sufficient demand to offer a seasonal Saturday or twice weekly service, yet there is no nonstop. The reason in all instances: distance, resulting in hundreds of possible connection options for YVR-Florida, which in-turn results in spreading O&D demand thinly for lower yielding leisure traffic.

In the time it takes to do a YVR-MIA roundtrip, there's enough time to do two YVR-California/LAS/PHX turns with the same aircraft.
 
tkoenig95
Posts: 287
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2017 8:39 pm

Re: Air Canada Possible New Routes (A220)

Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:19 pm

YVR-IAH will be the perfect airplane for this route. the CR9 is way too thin, proof coming from the YVR-DFW sector.
 
INFINITI329
Posts: 2459
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:53 am

Re: Air Canada Possible New Routes (A220)

Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:33 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
master14225 wrote:
I'm surprised as to why YVR-MCO or YVR-FLL can't work with the A220? Do people in Vancouver just go down to SEA and fly to Florida?


I don't think an A220 can make it that far?

Miami-Vancouver though is the single largest U.S.-Canada market without a non-stop, and MIA/FLL have extensive Canada service - YYZ, YUL, YHM, YYC, YYT, YWG, YYC, YEG, YQB, YOW, YHZ, some of those smaller than MIA/FLL-YVR.


Based on the range numbers I think A220s can make it. Even if you chop off 15% off the advertised numbers it should still have enough range. I don't know if BBD advertised the A220s with or without the standard assumptions in terms of baggage & reserve fuel. Their range maps show route as very much doable.
 
FlyingSicilian
Posts: 1613
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 7:53 pm

Re: Air Canada Possible New Routes (A220)

Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:37 pm

Is YEG-IAH a carve-out like IAH-YYC ?
“Without seeing Sicily it is impossible to understand Italy.Sicily is the key of everything.”-Goethe "Journey to Italy"
 
master14225
Posts: 180
Joined: Fri May 04, 2018 6:38 am

Re: Air Canada Possible New Routes (A220)

Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:37 pm

Then why does YYC-MCO exist? Or YYZ-PHX/LAS?

Dominion301 wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
master14225 wrote:
I'm surprised as to why YVR-MCO or YVR-FLL can't work with the A220? Do people in Vancouver just go down to SEA and fly to Florida?


I don't think an A220 can make it that far?

Miami-Vancouver though is the single largest U.S.-Canada market without a non-stop, and MIA/FLL have extensive Canada service - YYZ, YUL, YHM, YYC, YYT, YWG, YYC, YEG, YQB, YOW, YHZ, some of those smaller than MIA/FLL-YVR.


Yeah but all of those are east of YWG. It's the same reason why YOW-PHX or YQB-LAS don't exist, yet YQR-PHX and YXE-LAS do. YOW-PHX and YOW-LAS almost certainly have sufficient demand to offer a seasonal Saturday or twice weekly service, yet there is no nonstop. The reason in all instances: distance, resulting in hundreds of possible connection options for YVR-Florida, which in-turn results in spreading O&D demand thinly for lower yielding leisure traffic.

In the time it takes to do a YVR-MIA roundtrip, there's enough time to do two YVR-California/LAS/PHX turns with the same aircraft.
 
whywhyzee
Posts: 1037
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:12 am

Re: Air Canada Possible New Routes (A220)

Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:44 pm

EMB170 wrote:
n2dru wrote:
Does anyone think they would ever serve ATL from YUL again? DL currently has the monopoly.


Doubt it. YUL-ATL can't be bigger than YYZ-ATL and AC doesn't even serve that route with mainline. Operates with Express E75s.


Frequency and competition matters. DL is 7x daily mainline on ATL-YYZ, so AC competes with 4x sky regional flights. Obviously DL controls the route, but AC still has enough presence to be viable. They could do YUL at a reduced frequency like daily on a CS300, DL is only ~3x daily, and on smaller equipment, so AC would have a reasonably close offering in terms of volume. Thought a regional service on Jazz or Sky would likely be better to your point.
 
Bobloblaw
Posts: 2406
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:15 pm

Re: Air Canada Possible New Routes (A220)

Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:45 pm

BML87 wrote:
YVR-IAD, YHZ
YYC-IAD, BOS
YYZ-SJC, MTY
YUL-SEA

Image


First and foremost they will replace the E190s. YUL-SEA is a tough one
 
Bobloblaw
Posts: 2406
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:15 pm

Re: Air Canada Possible New Routes (A220)

Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:50 pm

n2dru wrote:
Does anyone think they would ever serve ATL from YUL again? DL currently has the monopoly.

Yeah, but with the E175. I think ATL might be a good add for a one daily connecting to Maritimes and Europe
 
303dk
Posts: 479
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2016 11:26 pm

Re: Air Canada Possible New Routes (A220)

Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:12 pm

They’re going to be running frequency biz routes on weekdays and thin sun routes on weekends
 
SurfandSnow
Posts: 1451
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 7:09 am

Re: Air Canada Possible New Routes (A220)

Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:57 am

I can't help but wonder if AC would reconsider YYZ-SNA with the A220. With B6 and DL getting the type as well this highly capable plane could be a game changer for the Orange County airport!
Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
 
Bobloblaw
Posts: 2406
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:15 pm

Re: Air Canada Possible New Routes (A220)

Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:13 am

SurfandSnow wrote:
I can't help but wonder if AC would reconsider YYZ-SNA with the A220. With B6 and DL getting the type as well this highly capable plane could be a game changer for the Orange County airport!

Slots and passenger cap
 
Dominion301
Posts: 2230
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:48 pm

Re: Air Canada Possible New Routes (A220)

Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:16 am

master14225 wrote:
Then why does YYC-MCO exist? Or YYZ-PHX/LAS?

Dominion301 wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:

I don't think an A220 can make it that far?

Miami-Vancouver though is the single largest U.S.-Canada market without a non-stop, and MIA/FLL have extensive Canada service - YYZ, YUL, YHM, YYC, YYT, YWG, YYC, YEG, YQB, YOW, YHZ, some of those smaller than MIA/FLL-YVR.


Yeah but all of those are east of YWG. It's the same reason why YOW-PHX or YQB-LAS don't exist, yet YQR-PHX and YXE-LAS do. YOW-PHX and YOW-LAS almost certainly have sufficient demand to offer a seasonal Saturday or twice weekly service, yet there is no nonstop. The reason in all instances: distance, resulting in hundreds of possible connection options for YVR-Florida, which in-turn results in spreading O&D demand thinly for lower yielding leisure traffic.

In the time it takes to do a YVR-MIA roundtrip, there's enough time to do two YVR-California/LAS/PHX turns with the same aircraft.


YYC-MCO is about 800km shorter distance than YVR-MIA. YVR pax can feed that MCO flight and there’s probably more demand for Disneyworld out of Calgary than the beaches of south Florida out of YVR.

YYZ-LAS/PHX exist because a) all of Eastern Canada feeds those routes and b) it probably has something to do with Toronto/YYZ’s catchment being +3 times the size of Vancouver.

The only airline I could ever see flying YVR-MIA is AA on a red-eye pattern.
 
BML87
Topic Author
Posts: 58
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2017 6:55 pm

Re: Air Canada Possible New Routes (A220)

Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:20 am

Dominion301 wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
master14225 wrote:
I'm surprised as to why YVR-MCO or YVR-FLL can't work with the A220? Do people in Vancouver just go down to SEA and fly to Florida?


I don't think an A220 can make it that far?

Miami-Vancouver though is the single largest U.S.-Canada market without a non-stop, and MIA/FLL have extensive Canada service - YYZ, YUL, YHM, YYC, YYT, YWG, YYC, YEG, YQB, YOW, YHZ, some of those smaller than MIA/FLL-YVR.


Yeah but all of those are east of YWG. It's the same reason why YOW-PHX or YQB-LAS don't exist, yet YQR-PHX and YXE-LAS do. YOW-PHX and YOW-LAS almost certainly have sufficient demand to offer a seasonal Saturday or twice weekly service, yet there is no nonstop. The reason in all instances: distance, resulting in hundreds of possible connection options for YVR-Florida, which in-turn results in spreading O&D demand thinly for lower yielding leisure traffic.

In the time it takes to do a YVR-MIA roundtrip, there's enough time to do two YVR-California/LAS/PHX turns with the same aircraft.


YEG isn't east of YWG.
 
Dominion301
Posts: 2230
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:48 pm

Re: Air Canada Possible New Routes (A220)

Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:26 am

BML87 wrote:
Dominion301 wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:

I don't think an A220 can make it that far?

Miami-Vancouver though is the single largest U.S.-Canada market without a non-stop, and MIA/FLL have extensive Canada service - YYZ, YUL, YHM, YYC, YYT, YWG, YYC, YEG, YQB, YOW, YHZ, some of those smaller than MIA/FLL-YVR.


Yeah but all of those are east of YWG. It's the same reason why YOW-PHX or YQB-LAS don't exist, yet YQR-PHX and YXE-LAS do. YOW-PHX and YOW-LAS almost certainly have sufficient demand to offer a seasonal Saturday or twice weekly service, yet there is no nonstop. The reason in all instances: distance, resulting in hundreds of possible connection options for YVR-Florida, which in-turn results in spreading O&D demand thinly for lower yielding leisure traffic.

In the time it takes to do a YVR-MIA roundtrip, there's enough time to do two YVR-California/LAS/PHX turns with the same aircraft.


YEG isn't east of YWG.


Oops missed that one and YYC. The thing is YVR-MIA is over 4,500 km and chews up an enormous amount of aircraft time as far as transborder routes go. To put things in perspective, it’s only about 80 km shorter than YHZ-LHR.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 5639
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Air Canada Possible New Routes (A220)

Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:31 am

n2dru wrote:
Does anyone think they would ever serve ATL from YUL again? DL currently has the monopoly.


DL isn't flying that for YUL-ATL O&D, what of it exists. It's one-stop service to every airport in Florida, and a bunch of Caribbean destinations.
 
master14225
Posts: 180
Joined: Fri May 04, 2018 6:38 am

Re: Air Canada Possible New Routes (A220)

Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:42 am

What about those from asia or australia that want to visit disneyworld in Orlando? YVR is a better connecting hub compared to SFO or LAX. Also it would be faster to get there from YVR too, I feel those pax along with MCO pax connecting to asia/australia and also regular YVR & MCO pax can feed a AC YVR-MCO flight with an A220.

Dominion301 wrote:
master14225 wrote:
Then why does YYC-MCO exist? Or YYZ-PHX/LAS?

Dominion301 wrote:

Yeah but all of those are east of YWG. It's the same reason why YOW-PHX or YQB-LAS don't exist, yet YQR-PHX and YXE-LAS do. YOW-PHX and YOW-LAS almost certainly have sufficient demand to offer a seasonal Saturday or twice weekly service, yet there is no nonstop. The reason in all instances: distance, resulting in hundreds of possible connection options for YVR-Florida, which in-turn results in spreading O&D demand thinly for lower yielding leisure traffic.

In the time it takes to do a YVR-MIA roundtrip, there's enough time to do two YVR-California/LAS/PHX turns with the same aircraft.


YYC-MCO is about 800km shorter distance than YVR-MIA. YVR pax can feed that MCO flight and there’s probably more demand for Disneyworld out of Calgary than the beaches of south Florida out of YVR.

YYZ-LAS/PHX exist because a) all of Eastern Canada feeds those routes and b) it probably has something to do with Toronto/YYZ’s catchment being +3 times the size of Vancouver.

The only airline I could ever see flying YVR-MIA is AA on a red-eye pattern.
 
many321
Posts: 294
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2017 6:15 am

Re: Air Canada Possible New Routes (A220)

Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:49 am

Bobloblaw wrote:
SurfandSnow wrote:
I can't help but wonder if AC would reconsider YYZ-SNA with the A220. With B6 and DL getting the type as well this highly capable plane could be a game changer for the Orange County airport!

Slots and passenger cap


I found interesting of them adding LA area as route the CSeries could serve. Perhaps it was just to show its able to do the route though won't be used, or could be used to down-gauge or add second flight at LAX or PSP, or perhaps open service at ONT since SNA has its passenger/slot cap.
 
FlyingSicilian
Posts: 1613
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 7:53 pm

Re: Air Canada Possible New Routes (A220)

Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:52 am

I do like how they have Houston near Corpus Christi on their map and Austin near Uvalde LOL
“Without seeing Sicily it is impossible to understand Italy.Sicily is the key of everything.”-Goethe "Journey to Italy"
 
Thomaas
Posts: 651
Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2014 10:52 pm

Re: Air Canada Possible New Routes (A220)

Wed Jan 16, 2019 3:04 am

master14225 wrote:
What about those from asia or australia that want to visit disneyworld in Orlando? YVR is a better connecting hub compared to SFO or LAX. Also it would be faster to get there from YVR too, I feel those pax along with MCO pax connecting to asia/australia and also regular YVR & MCO pax can feed a AC YVR-MCO flight with an A220.

Dominion301 wrote:
master14225 wrote:
Then why does YYC-MCO exist? Or YYZ-PHX/LAS?



YYC-MCO is about 800km shorter distance than YVR-MIA. YVR pax can feed that MCO flight and there’s probably more demand for Disneyworld out of Calgary than the beaches of south Florida out of YVR.

YYZ-LAS/PHX exist because a) all of Eastern Canada feeds those routes and b) it probably has something to do with Toronto/YYZ’s catchment being +3 times the size of Vancouver.

The only airline I could ever see flying YVR-MIA is AA on a red-eye pattern.


YVR-MCO was around last winter on Rouge, initially lodes as a 767 but ended up being operated by an A319. Then it was loaded for this winter at a reduced frequency and quietly dropped before the season started. Not a very good sign for the royte’a short/medium term prospects.
 
BoeingGuy
Posts: 6314
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:01 pm

Re: Air Canada Possible New Routes (A220)

Wed Jan 16, 2019 3:08 am

Dominion301 wrote:
master14225 wrote:
Then why does YYC-MCO exist? Or YYZ-PHX/LAS?

Dominion301 wrote:

Yeah but all of those are east of YWG. It's the same reason why YOW-PHX or YQB-LAS don't exist, yet YQR-PHX and YXE-LAS do. YOW-PHX and YOW-LAS almost certainly have sufficient demand to offer a seasonal Saturday or twice weekly service, yet there is no nonstop. The reason in all instances: distance, resulting in hundreds of possible connection options for YVR-Florida, which in-turn results in spreading O&D demand thinly for lower yielding leisure traffic.

In the time it takes to do a YVR-MIA roundtrip, there's enough time to do two YVR-California/LAS/PHX turns with the same aircraft.


YYC-MCO is about 800km shorter distance than YVR-MIA. YVR pax can feed that MCO flight and there’s probably more demand for Disneyworld out of Calgary than the beaches of south Florida out of YVR.

YYZ-LAS/PHX exist because a) all of Eastern Canada feeds those routes and b) it probably has something to do with Toronto/YYZ’s catchment being +3 times the size of Vancouver.

The only airline I could ever see flying YVR-MIA is AA on a red-eye pattern.


I believe AA has flown YVR-MIA in the past. I think it was seasonal.

There seem to be two maps floating around about AC’s potential new C...uh I mean A220 routes. This one includes SJC. I saw one an another news clip that didn’t have it.
 
ACDC8
Posts: 7762
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:56 pm

Re: Air Canada Possible New Routes (A220)

Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:38 am

whywhyzee wrote:
flyoregon wrote:
Noise wrote:

Really?

SEA and SAN are the two largest US MARKETS not served nonstop from YUL.


Maybe so, but SEA only has seasonal service to YYC on AC. Just because it’s a large market unserved, doesn’t mean there is a huge market for an airline to service it.


AC still serves SEA extensively from YVR and at minimum daily on mainline from YYZ, so they have a fairly sizeable presence in the market. Adding a YUL flight would compliment that. They have the experience to know and understand the market dynamics.

I would assume AC would be looking at how many of those pax connecting through either YYZ or YVR to SEA are originating from YUL?
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
AirFiero
Posts: 1325
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:43 pm

Re: Air Canada Possible New Routes (A220)

Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:03 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:
SJC-YYZ would be a resumption of that route. AC flew it around 2000.


Yup. It was killed in the post-9/11 downturn. I believe they also flew SJC-Ottawa (YOW?) briefly.

The A220 is a larger capacity aircraft than the E jet, correct? SJC-YVR started up 1x or 2x/D. Now it’s up to 3x. I wonder if we will see up gauging?
 
YYZLGA
Posts: 357
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2016 4:28 am

Re: Air Canada Possible New Routes (A220)

Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:26 pm

ACDC8 wrote:
whywhyzee wrote:
flyoregon wrote:

Maybe so, but SEA only has seasonal service to YYC on AC. Just because it’s a large market unserved, doesn’t mean there is a huge market for an airline to service it.


AC still serves SEA extensively from YVR and at minimum daily on mainline from YYZ, so they have a fairly sizeable presence in the market. Adding a YUL flight would compliment that. They have the experience to know and understand the market dynamics.

I would assume AC would be looking at how many of those pax connecting through either YYZ or YVR to SEA are originating from YUL?


I suspect AC also would be interested in attracting connecting passengers to Europe via YUL. There are some European destinations that AC only serves from YUL, plus they might like the flexibility of routing other connecting pax through YUL instead of YYZ if that's more financially attractive.
 
westaust
Posts: 30
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2016 3:05 pm

Re: Air Canada Possible New Routes (A220)

Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:28 pm

AirFiero wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
SJC-YYZ would be a resumption of that route. AC flew it around 2000.


Yup. It was killed in the post-9/11 downturn. I believe they also flew SJC-Ottawa (YOW?) briefly.

The A220 is a larger capacity aircraft than the E jet, correct? SJC-YVR started up 1x or 2x/D. Now it’s up to 3x. I wonder if we will see up gauging?


I don't remember if they flew YOW-SJC back then, but if they did, it was because of one client only, Nortel, thus they will probably never fly it again.

As for YUL-SEA, that route has been on the radar for AC for quite a few years, and their answer was always, we need the right aircraft to operate, E190 doesn't have the legs to do it, A320/737 too big of an aircraft, the A220 was always seen as the perfect sized aircraft if to operate this route.
 
Noise
Posts: 2455
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 1999 7:38 am

Re: Air Canada Possible New Routes (A220)

Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:40 pm

westaust wrote:
AirFiero wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
SJC-YYZ would be a resumption of that route. AC flew it around 2000.


Yup. It was killed in the post-9/11 downturn. I believe they also flew SJC-Ottawa (YOW?) briefly.

The A220 is a larger capacity aircraft than the E jet, correct? SJC-YVR started up 1x or 2x/D. Now it’s up to 3x. I wonder if we will see up gauging?


I don't remember if they flew YOW-SJC back then, but if they did, it was because of one client only, Nortel, thus they will probably never fly it again.

As for YUL-SEA, that route has been on the radar for AC for quite a few years, and their answer was always, we need the right aircraft to operate, E190 doesn't have the legs to do it, A320/737 too big of an aircraft, the A220 was always seen as the perfect sized aircraft if to operate this route.


AC did operate YOW-SJC back in the late 90s/early 2000s before the dot-com bust.

And yes, YUL-SEA has been on AC's radar for a while now. Same with YUL-SAN. The A220 seems to be the perfect aircraft for those routes.
 
master14225
Posts: 180
Joined: Fri May 04, 2018 6:38 am

Re: Air Canada Possible New Routes (A220)

Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:45 pm

Another question, would YVR-IAH be a possibility for the A220? UA only serves one daily flight which I think isn't enough for YVR as they are the most served in terms of asian flights and also IAH has connections to Mexico and the rest of latin america and south america, New Orleans, and Florida. Also YYC-IAH is served by AC express multiple times daily along with many daily flights from UA.
 
Thenoflyzone
Posts: 2838
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2001 4:42 am

Re: Air Canada Possible New Routes (A220)

Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:00 pm

master14225 wrote:
Another question, would YVR-IAH be a possibility for the A220? UA only serves one daily flight which I think isn't enough for YVR as they are the most served in terms of asian flights and also IAH has connections to Mexico and the rest of latin america and south america, New Orleans, and Florida. Also YYC-IAH is served by AC express multiple times daily along with many daily flights from UA.


The fact the route isn't on the slide is proof enough that it's not a priority for AC, at least not on the CSeries. Now, does that mean it will never happen? Of course not, but it seems AC has bigger fish to fry at the moment.

YYC-IAH is served due to the oil industry. It's purely O&D. It is higher yielding than YVR-IAH, which would be chasing connecting traffic on both ends.
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
Skywatcher
Posts: 798
Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2002 11:19 am

Re: Air Canada Possible New Routes (A220)

Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:23 pm

ACDC8 wrote:
whywhyzee wrote:
flyoregon wrote:

Maybe so, but SEA only has seasonal service to YYC on AC. Just because it’s a large market unserved, doesn’t mean there is a huge market for an airline to service it.


AC still serves SEA extensively from YVR and at minimum daily on mainline from YYZ, so they have a fairly sizeable presence in the market. Adding a YUL flight would compliment that. They have the experience to know and understand the market dynamics.

I would assume AC would be looking at how many of those pax connecting through either YYZ or YVR to SEA are originating from YUL?


For flying YUL or YOW to Seattle it would normally make sense to transfer via an American hub (MSP/ORD/DTW etc.) rather than YYZ or YVR. The farther you fly "domestically" in the USA the cheaper it typically is. Way more choices too.
 
Dominion301
Posts: 2230
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:48 pm

Re: Air Canada Possible New Routes (A220)

Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:00 pm

westaust wrote:
AirFiero wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
SJC-YYZ would be a resumption of that route. AC flew it around 2000.


Yup. It was killed in the post-9/11 downturn. I believe they also flew SJC-Ottawa (YOW?) briefly.

The A220 is a larger capacity aircraft than the E jet, correct? SJC-YVR started up 1x or 2x/D. Now it’s up to 3x. I wonder if we will see up gauging?


I don't remember if they flew YOW-SJC back then, but if they did, it was because of one client only, Nortel, thus they will probably never fly it again.

As for YUL-SEA, that route has been on the radar for AC for quite a few years, and their answer was always, we need the right aircraft to operate, E190 doesn't have the legs to do it, A320/737 too big of an aircraft, the A220 was always seen as the perfect sized aircraft if to operate this route.


Yup and the other Nortel Shuttle was YOW-RDU. That one even peaked at twice daily using a combination of Canadi>n Regional F28s and AC mainline CRJs! YOW-SFO on the other hand, factoring in connections, would have the traffic to support an A220. However, even though AC & UA are partners, I doubt AC would be too eager to hand over thousands of YOW-Asia/LAX/SAN/PDX/SEA, etc. pax to UA, instead of connecting on AC at YYZ or YVR. It's exactly why they launched YOW-SJC during the dot.com boom instead of YOW-SFO. The tech bust/Nortel collapse, coupled with almost zero connection options lead to its cancellation less than a year after its launch.

If YOW-SF Bay O&D traffic ever grew to 75k annually from the current approx. 50k, then I think you'd see AC take a serious look at it.
Last edited by Dominion301 on Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos