B1168
Topic Author
Posts: 507
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:26 pm

Air France to axe CAN

Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:27 am

Disclaimer: Any moderators, if there is an Air France thread which I didn’t find, please delete the post.

Per Airlineroute, Air France will cease its flight to CAN starting 31MAR19. Link at below.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... arch-2019/

Well... turns out, quitting Skyteam is causing a short-term issue with CZ. Hopefully it will pay off soon.
 
behramjee
Posts: 4965
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 4:56 am

Re: Air France to axe CAN

Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:38 am

Compared to PVG and PEK, CAN has less than one third the demand from EU versus those cities ! Cargo demand was good for AF but yields were not as CAN is primarily trader traffic and not premium.

In addition there is nothing much that CAN offers as a tourist destination.
 
B1168
Topic Author
Posts: 507
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:26 pm

Re: Air France to axe CAN

Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:44 am

behramjee wrote:
Compared to PVG and PEK, CAN has less than one third the demand from EU versus those cities ! Cargo demand was good for AF but yields were not as CAN is primarily trader traffic and not premium.

In addition there is nothing much that CAN offers as a tourist destination.


CAN has long been a 3/2 tier city. They would not achieve the level that PEK/PVG achieves, but is still hugely better off than CTU. That explains why they long lacked nodes for second-tier European city while receiving QR’s 380.
The last sentence will immediately apply after the code sharing agreements cease. They really don’t have that much businessmen compared to HKG.
After all, there is still 1 D from CZ. They really need to concerntrate on N. America and African network.
 
xjetflyer2001
Posts: 254
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2016 6:20 pm

Re: Air France to axe CAN

Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:54 am

How long has Air France been flying to CAN? I know I got a photo of an AF A330 when I was in CAN back in 2004
 
Antarius
Posts: 1723
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:27 pm

Re: Air France to axe CAN

Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:56 am

Title should have been AF to can CAN.

Missed opportunity. If SQ ever does the same, they can can CAN... lah.
2019: SIN HKG NRT DFW IAH HOU CLT LGA JFK SFO SJC EWR SNA EYW MIA BOG LAX ORD DTW OAK PVG BOS DCA IAD ATL LAS BIS CUN PHX OAK SYD CVG PHL MAD ORY CDG SLC SJU BQN MHT YYZ STS BIS DOH BLR KTM MFM MEX MSY BWI DEN
 
B1168
Topic Author
Posts: 507
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:26 pm

Re: Air France to axe CAN

Wed Jan 16, 2019 3:00 am

xjetflyer2001 wrote:
How long has Air France been flying to CAN? I know I got a photo of an AF A330 when I was in CAN back in 2004


Exactly in 2004 did AF started the route.
15 years... that’s an awfully long time.
 
eamondzhang
Posts: 1349
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 8:23 am

Re: Air France to axe CAN

Wed Jan 16, 2019 3:05 am

behramjee wrote:
Compared to PVG and PEK, CAN has less than one third the demand from EU versus those cities ! Cargo demand was good for AF but yields were not as CAN is primarily trader traffic and not premium.

In addition there is nothing much that CAN offers as a tourist destination.

And more importantly CZ's exiting of Skyteam (and I assume the JV between CZ/MU/AF/KL as well) puts the final nail in the coffin.

Michael
 
B1168
Topic Author
Posts: 507
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Re: Air France to axe CAN

Wed Jan 16, 2019 3:09 am

eamondzhang wrote:
behramjee wrote:
Compared to PVG and PEK, CAN has less than one third the demand from EU versus those cities ! Cargo demand was good for AF but yields were not as CAN is primarily trader traffic and not premium.

In addition there is nothing much that CAN offers as a tourist destination.

And more importantly CZ's exiting of Skyteam (and I assume the JV between CZ/MU/AF/KL as well) puts the final nail in the coffin.

Michael


That is a complicated story. But given they plan CAN-HEL starting this year, they may just live fine with OW, though less transfer capability should be anticipated.
RIP the only year-round CAN route operated by W. European carrier.
 
eamondzhang
Posts: 1349
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 8:23 am

Re: Air France to axe CAN

Wed Jan 16, 2019 3:15 am

B1168 wrote:
eamondzhang wrote:
behramjee wrote:
Compared to PVG and PEK, CAN has less than one third the demand from EU versus those cities ! Cargo demand was good for AF but yields were not as CAN is primarily trader traffic and not premium.

In addition there is nothing much that CAN offers as a tourist destination.

And more importantly CZ's exiting of Skyteam (and I assume the JV between CZ/MU/AF/KL as well) puts the final nail in the coffin.

Michael


That is a complicated story. But given they plan CAN-HEL starting this year, they may just live fine with OW, though less transfer capability should be anticipated.
RIP the only year-round CAN route operated by W. European carrier.

Don't forget LHR where CZ and BA are currently cooperating extensively via codeshare (at the moment). Also CZ's transfers is far bigger on domestic side instead of European side so this won't affect a lot on their passenger flows. In any case they still have interline with AF/KL that they can utilize if they really need to send someone to a third destination.

With CAN's international flow and less Europe (than even Africa) this is not entirely surprising. The only European airlines who appears to be able to support its flight are TK daily and seasonal AY.

Michael
 
Flanker7
Posts: 334
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 4:38 pm

Re: Air France to axe CAN

Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:13 am

Let's not forget that KLM still operates to CAN. Traffic from Paris can go through Amsterdam.
Flying blue only if possible
 
factsonly
Posts: 2700
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:08 pm

Re: Air France to axe CAN

Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:19 am

Flanker7 wrote:
Let's not forget that KLM still operates to CAN. Traffic from Paris can go through Amsterdam.


KLM has never operated to CAN.

CZ operates a daily A333 CAN-AMS-CAN in codeshare with KL.
Both airlines have announced that they will continue their close cooperation irrespective of CZ leaving SKYTEAM.
CZ's European HQ at AMS employs over 40 staff, as well as European CZ flight attendants.
 
Thibault973
Posts: 234
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2015 9:11 am

Re: Air France to axe CAN

Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:32 am

B1168 wrote:

CAN has long been a 3/2 tier city. They would not achieve the level that PEK/PVG achieves, but is still hugely better off than CTU. That explains why they long lacked nodes for second-tier European city while receiving QR’s 380.


While CAN is a much bigger business destination than CTU, the latter has much more tourism potential. It’s the gateway to Sichuan, home to the last remaining wild pandas. Now if only China would lower their ridiculously high Visa fees.
 
gunnerman
Posts: 887
Joined: Fri May 19, 2017 7:55 pm

Re: Air France to axe CAN

Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:23 am

I can't help noticing that both SU and TK have a daily flight to CAN from SVO and IST respectively. How does the Russian and Turkish markets compare with other European markets?
 
MalevTU134
Posts: 2188
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:04 pm

Re: Air France to axe CAN

Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:10 pm

gunnerman wrote:
I can't help noticing that both SU and TK have a daily flight to CAN from SVO and IST respectively. How does the Russian and Turkish markets compare with other European markets?

I met an Azerbaijani gentleman once (one of those absolutely fascinating meetings that you are unlikely to have outside airports or onboard airliners) in the TK Business Class Lounge at IST some 8 years or so ago. He was in the business of manufacturing in China and importing to Turkey (where he was living) all sorts of fake (of course) designer label clothes. He told me that all of it was labelled "Made in Turkey", as that enbables him to sell at a higher price when he sells it on to Europe (and Russia, which he told me was a big market for him). When I, still naïvely astonished, asked him whether he didn't face problems at customs in Turkey, he just laughed and said that nobody cares about copyrights or trademark infringements there. Nor in Russia. Maybe traders like this gentleman are a part of the reason for the success of TK and SU at CAN?
 
lhrsfosyd
Posts: 209
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2016 4:57 pm

Re: Air France to axe CAN

Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:14 pm

gunnerman wrote:
I can't help noticing that both SU and TK have a daily flight to CAN from SVO and IST respectively. How does the Russian and Turkish markets compare with other European markets?


TK and SU have much lower operating costs and are better positioned geographically for European connections which leaves high cost legacies like AF no choice but to leave low yield markets.
 
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SheikhDjibouti
Posts: 1772
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:59 pm

Re: Air France to axe CAN

Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:35 pm

Antarius wrote:
Title should have been... "Air France to can CAN".

Apparently only I got it the first time; I hope you approve of my editing.

Meanwhile I can't wait for Slovakian airline Air Explore to update their fleet by ripping up their old carpets.
(You'll have to work a bit harder for that one)
Nothing to see here; move along please.
 
Flanker7
Posts: 334
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 4:38 pm

Re: Air France to axe CAN

Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:40 pm

factsonly wrote:
Flanker7 wrote:
Let's not forget that KLM still operates to CAN. Traffic from Paris can go through Amsterdam.


KLM has never operated to CAN.

CZ operates a daily A333 CAN-AMS-CAN in codeshare with KL.
Both airlines have announced that they will continue their close cooperation irrespective of CZ leaving SKYTEAM.
CZ's European HQ at AMS employs over 40 staff, as well as European CZ flight attendants.


You're right, overlooked the codesharing aspect when looking it up.
Flying blue only if possible
 
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Revelation
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Re: Air France to axe CAN

Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:45 pm

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
Antarius wrote:
Title should have been... "Air France to can CAN".

Apparently only I got it the first time; I hope you approve of my editing.

Perhaps more succinct to go with "Air France: CAN Can't"?
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
Ziyulu
Posts: 634
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2016 10:35 am

Re: Air France to axe CAN

Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:51 pm

I'm surprised they would get rid of CAN before WUH.
 
gunnerman
Posts: 887
Joined: Fri May 19, 2017 7:55 pm

Re: Air France to axe CAN

Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:23 pm

Just did a quick check: AF provides the only link between western Europe and WUH, nothing from MU or CZ, didn't know that.
 
xjetflyer2001
Posts: 254
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2016 6:20 pm

Re: Air France to axe CAN

Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:30 pm

B1168 wrote:
xjetflyer2001 wrote:
How long has Air France been flying to CAN? I know I got a photo of an AF A330 when I was in CAN back in 2004


Exactly in 2004 did AF started the route.
15 years... that’s an awfully long time.


Wow, Thanks, I had no idea that flight was brand new at the time.
 
VTCIE
Posts: 331
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:10 am

Re: Air France to axe CAN

Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:32 pm

Keeping to the overall theme the can-can dancers have set for the thread. How do you people pronounce the airport code CAN? As a word, Can, or as C-A-N?
Last edited by VTCIE on Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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ScottB
Posts: 6641
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

Re: Air France to axe CAN

Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:38 pm

Revelation wrote:
Perhaps more succinct to go with "Air France: CAN Can't"?


Or a bit more wordy version: AF to can CAN; no more can-can to CAN.
 
Thibault973
Posts: 234
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2015 9:11 am

Re: Air France to axe CAN

Wed Jan 16, 2019 4:55 pm

Ziyulu wrote:
I'm surprised they would get rid of CAN before WUH.


While the CDG-WUH route started pretty rough it's actually doing quiet well going from 3 to 4 weekly this summer. CZ also requested to start this route this year.

Wuhan has a Peugeot-PSA factory. In fact, France represents 1/4 of foreign investments in the Hubei province, with around 100 French companies operating there. There is a French consulate in Wuhan. Wuhan and

Oh, and the route is subsidised by the local government ;)

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