jplatts
Posts: 2970
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Kentucky Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 25, 2019 6:01 pm

kwp302 wrote:
SEA (DL)


I am unsure if DL will add SDF-SEA nonstop service as CVG and JAC are currently only North American destinations with nonstop service out of SEA on DL that aren't currently served by AS.

AS adding SDF-SEA nonstop service is a possibility as AS has recently added CMH-SEA and PIT-SEA nonstop service.
 
kwp302
Posts: 77
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:59 pm

Re: Kentucky Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 25, 2019 6:33 pm

jplatts wrote:
kwp302 wrote:
SEA (DL)


I am unsure if DL will add SDF-SEA nonstop service as CVG and JAC are currently only North American destinations with nonstop service out of SEA on DL that aren't currently served by AS.

AS adding SDF-SEA nonstop service is a possibility as AS has recently added CMH-SEA and PIT-SEA nonstop service.

Oh I’d love for it to be AS. Just don’t foresee them entering the market here. Hopefully I’m wrong!
 
Bluegrass60
Posts: 394
Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:15 am

Re: Kentucky Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 25, 2019 7:04 pm

I think SDF will get nonstop service to: SFO, SEA, SLC, YYZ, BOS, RDU, STL and BHM. When? 2020 for BOS, STL. Others after 2020. Also think Spirit lands at SDF in 2020 and Moxy arrives in 2021/2022. TATL happens (seasonally) 2022-2025 timeframe. There could be some dart throwing by F9 anytime and G4 might make some adds to Mexico/Caribbean in 2022.

Key to any of this happening is the national and regional economies; regional population/tourism growth.
 
kwp302
Posts: 77
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:59 pm

Re: Kentucky Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 25, 2019 7:10 pm

Bluegrass60 wrote:
I think SDF will get nonstop service to: SFO, SEA, SLC, YYZ, BOS, RDU, STL and BHM. When? 2020 for BOS, STL. Others after 2020. Also think Spirit lands at SDF in 2020 and Moxy arrives in 2021/2022. TATL happens (seasonally) 2022-2025 timeframe. There could be some dart throwing by F9 anytime and G4 might make some adds to Mexico/Caribbean in 2022.

Key to any of this happening is the national and regional economies; regional population/tourism growth.

Forgot about YYZ. That’s definitely on my wishlist. Also realistic given that AC flew the route in the early 2000s (I think?)
 
kwp302
Posts: 77
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:59 pm

Re: Kentucky Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 25, 2019 8:53 pm

The timing for the LAX flight will be changing on Dec 18.

LAX - SDF 10:13a - 5:17p AA2622
SDF - LAX 5:57p - 7:58p AA2622

Frequency appears to be daily.
 
ibthebigd
Posts: 289
Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:12 pm

Re: Kentucky Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 25, 2019 10:02 pm

kwp302 wrote:
The timing for the LAX flight will be changing on Dec 18.

LAX - SDF 10:13a - 5:17p AA2622
SDF - LAX 5:57p - 7:58p AA2622

Frequency appears to be daily.
How will this affect Connection's?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 
jasoncrh
Posts: 745
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2005 10:29 pm

Re: Kentucky Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 25, 2019 11:20 pm

Connection’s what?

ibthebigd wrote:
kwp302 wrote:
The timing for the LAX flight will be changing on Dec 18.

LAX - SDF 10:13a - 5:17p AA2622
SDF - LAX 5:57p - 7:58p AA2622

Frequency appears to be daily.
How will this affect Connection's?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 
ibthebigd
Posts: 289
Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:12 pm

Re: Kentucky Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 25, 2019 11:22 pm

If you are flying SDF-LAX-ASIA will the new time help with more connection's or less?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 
jasoncrh
Posts: 745
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2005 10:29 pm

Re: Kentucky Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:10 am

Connection’s what? On AA, there are better connections to Asia over DFW than through LA.
ibthebigd wrote:
If you are flying SDF-LAX-ASIA will the new time help with more connection's or less?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 
kwp302
Posts: 77
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:59 pm

Re: Kentucky Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 26, 2019 1:53 am

The connections (no apostrophe ;) ) will work better for flights to the South Pacific and some of the China flights. Not so much for Hawaii (but DFW and ORD are there for that)
 
747fan
Posts: 918
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2007 7:40 am

Re: Kentucky Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:22 am

jasoncrh wrote:
Connection’s what? On AA, there are better connections to Asia over DFW than through LA.
ibthebigd wrote:
If you are flying SDF-LAX-ASIA will the new time help with more connection's or less?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

It'll be timed well for connections to/from Australia and NZ now. Definitely not the case with the current red-eye.
From what I've noticed, this flight is typically 70-80% local passengers, with the connections mostly being the west coast markets and Hawaii.

On another note, I flew into SDF from DFW this morning on a Mesa flight that was delayed 12 hours from last night...yikes. Then, we developed a maintenance issue during descent and the return flight to DFW (which was the first flight of the day already delayed over 5 hours due to this very late inbound) ended up cancelling.
Mesa's reliability is a JOKE on these flights, with the worst actually being the morning originators out of SDF due to them coming out of maintenance (usually at least one cancellation or multiple hour delay per week).
Would be nice to see more of these DFW flights go to mainline or Envoy E175's, but that's a pipe dream due to Mesa having both a maintenance and crew base in Louisville.
 
kwp302
Posts: 77
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:59 pm

Re: Kentucky Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:06 am

747fan wrote:
On another note, I flew into SDF from DFW this morning on a Mesa flight that was delayed 12 hours from last night...yikes. Then, we developed a maintenance issue during descent and the return flight to DFW (which was the first flight of the day already delayed over 5 hours due to this very late inbound) ended up cancelling.
Mesa's reliability is a JOKE on these flights, with the worst actually being the morning originators out of SDF due to them coming out of maintenance (usually at least one cancellation or multiple hour delay per week).
Would be nice to see more of these DFW flights go to mainline or Envoy E175's, but that's a pipe dream due to Mesa having both a maintenance and crew base in Louisville.

It always amazes me that on any given day I can pull up the flight tracker and see so many “delayed” or “cancelled” notes on the SDF/DFW route. AA mainline picked up some of the slack on Monday with the A321 they sent in lieu of the A319. It was full on the return to DFW due to an earlier Mesa flight that returned back to SDF and then later cancelled.
 
Bluegrass60
Posts: 394
Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:15 am

Re: Kentucky Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:39 pm

https://www.flymemphis.com/NewsDetails?newsid=5296

Good for MEM! Would like to see WN re-instate SDF-ATL....how about MKE-SDF-ATL??
 
Bluegrass60
Posts: 394
Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:15 am

Re: Kentucky Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 26, 2019 5:57 pm

Atlanta-based United Parcel Service Inc. (NYSE: UPS) is making another huge investment in Louisville that will be spread across multiple projects costing in excess of $750 million. And those projects are expected to create 1,000 new jobs paying an average of $70 an hour including benefits. (@$145k)

The Kentucky Economic Development Finance Authority preliminarily approved $36 million in tax incentives under its Kentucky Business Investment program and another $4 million under the Kentucky Enterprise Initiative Act for the projects Thursday morning.

In the KEDFA filings, UPS states that it plans to build an additional two-bay hangar that will support the ongoing expansion of its aircraft fleet, particularly maintenance on its 747-8F aircraft. The rest of the projects were not disclosed, with UPS simply saying it will "incur many other enhancement projects to the airport and surrounding area."

More details in news conference next week.

This likely increases SDF Economic Impact to the $10B range
 
Bluegrass60
Posts: 394
Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:15 am

Re: Kentucky Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 26, 2019 6:35 pm

Louisville’s Worldport is UPS's largest air package sorting hub. In addition to Worldport, the company's UPS Airlines division is based in Louisville, along with significant ground and warehousing operations. It's the city's largest employer by far with about 23,000 full time equivalent workers.

This increases SDF Economic Impact to the $10B range. Compare this to CVG's $4.5B; IND's $5.6B, BNA's $7.1B.....and gaining on MEM's $19.1B.

Yet another sign of a surging economy in the Louisville Area!
 
kwp302
Posts: 77
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:59 pm

Re: Kentucky Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 26, 2019 6:37 pm

So what exactly are these 1,000 new jobs paying an AVERAGE of $70/hr?!
 
Bluegrass60
Posts: 394
Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:15 am

Re: Kentucky Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 26, 2019 7:07 pm

kwp302 wrote:
So what exactly are these 1,000 new jobs paying an AVERAGE of $70/hr?!


Includes benefits. Aircraft mechanics for sure since they announced new 2 bay 747 Hangar...maybe with some over-time they get in that range.

Will learn more with next weeks news conference....I would guess they are tech/logistics related...maybe UPS response to Amazons Nashville Tech/Logistics Center announcement last Nov (the one advising avg job would pay $150k)
 
kwp302
Posts: 77
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:59 pm

Re: Kentucky Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Sep 27, 2019 2:34 pm

kwp302 wrote:
The timing for the LAX flight will be changing on Dec 18.

LAX - SDF 10:13a - 5:17p AA2622
SDF - LAX 5:57p - 7:58p AA2622

Frequency appears to be daily.

Looks like it’s just in the schedule like this through April 6 and then it returns to the original red-eye/morning turn.
 
kwp302
Posts: 77
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:59 pm

Re: Kentucky Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Oct 03, 2019 9:14 pm

At the UPS press conference today, they said the new hangar for the 748s will be on leased land at the northwest corner of the airport. Guessing it will be the area between the old Crittenden Drive and new Crittenden Drive? I always assumed it would be on the southwest corner near the feeder lot.
 
dcs921
Posts: 37
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2018 4:40 pm

Re: Kentucky Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Oct 03, 2019 11:38 pm

The location was announced last week when it was originally announced. Not enough room on the southwest side to build a hanger that size. The only logical place was to go in the northwest corner of the airport.
 
kwp302
Posts: 77
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:59 pm

Re: Kentucky Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Oct 11, 2019 1:06 am

Noticed than DL has been flying a 738 on the midnight arrival / 7:00a departure turn. Is this the start of the MD-88/90 replacement? Or is it for another reason? I thought it had been said that the A320 would replace the -88 and A321 replace the -90.
 
jasoncrh
Posts: 745
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2005 10:29 pm

Re: Kentucky Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Oct 11, 2019 2:38 am

Does anybody know if allegiant is bringing back sdf-las Vegas or if frontier is bringing back sdf-Denver? Both have flown year round and now frontier isn’t flying to Denver after December through April (it flew every month this year) and Allegiant stopped Vegas in August. Any insight?
 
kwp302
Posts: 77
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:59 pm

Re: Kentucky Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Oct 14, 2019 1:09 am

Latest schedule changes for SDF:

AA flying the LAX route only 5 days a week starting in February (on the midday schedule). Su, M, W, Th, F

Frontier increasing the MCO flight to 3x weekly Su, T, Th

AA extending the 3x daily to PHL (was 2x daily in February last year)
 
kcrwflyer
Posts: 2614
Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 11:57 am

Re: Kentucky Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 16, 2019 3:05 pm

Do any of you guys ever actually ask the airport about this stuff? They'd probably tell you.. SDF appears to be pretty active and responsive on the various social media platforms. .
 
ibthebigd
Posts: 289
Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:12 pm

Re: Kentucky Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 16, 2019 3:06 pm

I ask LEX airport all the time about getting a flight to DEN or SLC

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 
tnair1974
Posts: 78
Joined: Sun Sep 15, 2019 5:37 pm

Re: Kentucky Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:02 am

ibthebigd wrote:
I ask LEX airport all the time about getting a flight to DEN or SLC

LEX may be somewhat like TYS use to be regarding DEN.

IIRC, TYS officials during the 1990s said at the time that UA was reluctant to start TYS-DEN due to concern too much traffic would be drawn from their TYS-ORD flights. It's only relatively recently that UA has had consistent year round TYS-DEN service, even if on United Express EMB-145s. There's also seasonal TYS-DEN flights by both G4 and F9 (having the likes of Gatlinburg near Knoxville does not hurt).

With Lexington's robust growth, seems it's just a matter of time when UA feels they can serve westbound customers with LEX-DEN/ORD/IAH/all at the same time (for now, DEN is the only of the three not served). This said, someone like G4 could step in first with LEX-DEN, but it may be seasonal and/or less than daily which of course is less ideal for business travelers.

Not sure if TYS-SLC/LEX-SLC would work even with regional jets. Even some larger markets like IND-SLC and CMH-SLC have been off and on over the years albeit with mainline DL equipment.
 
TYSflyer
Posts: 265
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2017 5:44 pm

Re: Kentucky Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Oct 18, 2019 11:10 am

tnair1974 wrote:
ibthebigd wrote:
I ask LEX airport all the time about getting a flight to DEN or SLC

LEX may be somewhat like TYS use to be regarding DEN.

IIRC, TYS officials during the 1990s said at the time that UA was reluctant to start TYS-DEN due to concern too much traffic would be drawn from their TYS-ORD flights. It's only relatively recently that UA has had consistent year round TYS-DEN service, even if on United Express EMB-145s. There's also seasonal TYS-DEN flights by both G4 and F9 (having the likes of Gatlinburg near Knoxville does not hurt).

With Lexington's robust growth, seems it's just a matter of time when UA feels they can serve westbound customers with LEX-DEN/ORD/IAH/all at the same time (for now, DEN is the only of the three not served). This said, someone like G4 could step in first with LEX-DEN, but it may be seasonal and/or less than daily which of course is less ideal for business travelers.

Not sure if TYS-SLC/LEX-SLC would work even with regional jets. Even some larger markets like IND-SLC and CMH-SLC have been off and on over the years albeit with mainline DL equipment.

United started TYS-DEN around 2005-2006 with a daily CR7. It converted to ER4 after the merger with Continental. It now operates twice daily generally ER4 but occasionally will be CR7 or E175. It has never operated seasonally. F9 launched in 2011 prior to morphing into an ULCC. It was originally operated year round but after 2 years went seasonal. However it went back to year round last year with plans to do the same in 2020 albeit just twice weekly service in the winter. G4 just launched summer seasonal service this past summer on TYS-DEN. I do feel LEX could have similar service, and I am somewhat surprised UA has not jumped on DEN from there with their growth in DEN recently.
 
jplatts
Posts: 2970
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Kentucky Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:17 pm

TYSflyer wrote:
tnair1974 wrote:
ibthebigd wrote:
I ask LEX airport all the time about getting a flight to DEN or SLC

LEX may be somewhat like TYS use to be regarding DEN.

IIRC, TYS officials during the 1990s said at the time that UA was reluctant to start TYS-DEN due to concern too much traffic would be drawn from their TYS-ORD flights. It's only relatively recently that UA has had consistent year round TYS-DEN service, even if on United Express EMB-145s. There's also seasonal TYS-DEN flights by both G4 and F9 (having the likes of Gatlinburg near Knoxville does not hurt).

With Lexington's robust growth, seems it's just a matter of time when UA feels they can serve westbound customers with LEX-DEN/ORD/IAH/all at the same time (for now, DEN is the only of the three not served). This said, someone like G4 could step in first with LEX-DEN, but it may be seasonal and/or less than daily which of course is less ideal for business travelers.

Not sure if TYS-SLC/LEX-SLC would work even with regional jets. Even some larger markets like IND-SLC and CMH-SLC have been off and on over the years albeit with mainline DL equipment.

United started TYS-DEN around 2005-2006 with a daily CR7. It converted to ER4 after the merger with Continental. It now operates twice daily generally ER4 but occasionally will be CR7 or E175. It has never operated seasonally. F9 launched in 2011 prior to morphing into an ULCC. It was originally operated year round but after 2 years went seasonal. However it went back to year round last year with plans to do the same in 2020 albeit just twice weekly service in the winter. G4 just launched summer seasonal service this past summer on TYS-DEN. I do feel LEX could have similar service, and I am somewhat surprised UA has not jumped on DEN from there with their growth in DEN recently.


There are a few domestic destinations east of the Mississippi River such as ATW, DAY, VPS, RIC, and TVC that have nonstop service to DEN on UA (on at least a seasonal basis) but not on any LCC's. UA might be willing to add LEX-DEN nonstop service if the demand is there as UA has already added nonstop service to DEN from a few other domestic destinations east of the Mississippi that do not have nonstop LCC service to DEN.
 
kwp302
Posts: 77
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:59 pm

Re: Kentucky Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Oct 21, 2019 9:20 pm

United will be flying the CRJ550 (50 seats in a 3 class configuration) between ORD - SDF starting March 5, 2020.

https://www.bizjournals.com/louisville/ ... ville.html
 
Bluegrass60
Posts: 394
Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:15 am

Re: Kentucky Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:15 pm

It seems to be quite the upgrade vs the older 50 seat CRJ/ERJ. No pink tag and interminable wait upon arrival in a cold/hot jetway. Maybe more legroom/headroom. I guess as long as Jet A is affordable it could work?
 
Bluegrass60
Posts: 394
Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:15 am

Re: Kentucky Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:29 pm

Today in the Dallas Morning News: "An acquisition by Southwest motivated by a desire to diversify away from the Max creates significant risks in the near term for LUV," Stifel analysts said in a Monday research note speculating whether low-cost carriers Alaska Air Group Inc. (NYSE: ALK) and JetBlue Airways (Nasdaq: JBLU) could be M&A targets."

Alaska Airlines remains focused on improving both passenger comfort and our fuel efficiency. We maintain a young operational fleet of 166 Boeing 737 aircraft, 72 Airbus A320 family aircraft, 34 Bombardier Q400 aircraft, and 60 Embraer 175 aircraft.

JetBlue flies Airbus and EMB 170/175

Not mentioned in the article is Spirit....Airbus....and has been adding flights in many WN stations.....

Another no mention is MOXY...to be launched in 2021 or so with Airbus 220's
 
tnair1974
Posts: 78
Joined: Sun Sep 15, 2019 5:37 pm

Re: Kentucky Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 22, 2019 1:05 am

TYSflyer wrote:
tnair1974 wrote:
ibthebigd wrote:
I ask LEX airport all the time about getting a flight to DEN or SLC

LEX may be somewhat like TYS use to be regarding DEN.

IIRC, TYS officials during the 1990s said at the time that UA was reluctant to start TYS-DEN due to concern too much traffic would be drawn from their TYS-ORD flights. It's only relatively recently that UA has had consistent year round TYS-DEN service, even if on United Express EMB-145s. There's also seasonal TYS-DEN flights by both G4 and F9 (having the likes of Gatlinburg near Knoxville does not hurt).

With Lexington's robust growth, seems it's just a matter of time when UA feels they can serve westbound customers with LEX-DEN/ORD/IAH/all at the same time (for now, DEN is the only of the three not served). This said, someone like G4 could step in first with LEX-DEN, but it may be seasonal and/or less than daily which of course is less ideal for business travelers.

Not sure if TYS-SLC/LEX-SLC would work even with regional jets. Even some larger markets like IND-SLC and CMH-SLC have been off and on over the years albeit with mainline DL equipment.

United started TYS-DEN around 2005-2006 with a daily CR7. It converted to ER4 after the merger with Continental. It now operates twice daily generally ER4 but occasionally will be CR7 or E175. It has never operated seasonally. F9 launched in 2011 prior to morphing into an ULCC. It was originally operated year round but after 2 years went seasonal. However it went back to year round last year with plans to do the same in 2020 albeit just twice weekly service in the winter. G4 just launched summer seasonal service this past summer on TYS-DEN. I do feel LEX could have similar service, and I am somewhat surprised UA has not jumped on DEN from there with their growth in DEN recently.



Thanks for the nice info. I (wrongly) thought UA briefly dropped TYS-DEN during the late 2000s. Although I have lived in Knoxville and used the airport, I grew up closer to CHA than TYS.

Speaking of LEX-DEN flights (and this is a Kentucky thread after all), I did not know the original Frontier Airlines served LEX during the early 1980s. Just before ceasing operations, Frontier had LEX-STL-DEN on 732s. Anybody know how long this service lasted or if it was always one-stop?

Piedmont already flew SDF-DEN at the time which could have persuaded the first Frontier to serve LEX instead.

Knoxville has had a larger metro population than Lexington, but I'm also a little perplexed there is no LEX-DEN service at the moment.
 
kwp302
Posts: 77
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:59 pm

Re: Kentucky Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 22, 2019 3:00 am

Bluegrass60 wrote:
Today in the Dallas Morning News: "An acquisition by Southwest motivated by a desire to diversify away from the Max creates significant risks in the near term for LUV," Stifel analysts said in a Monday research note speculating whether low-cost carriers Alaska Air Group Inc. (NYSE: ALK) and JetBlue Airways (Nasdaq: JBLU) could be M&A targets."

Alaska Airlines remains focused on improving both passenger comfort and our fuel efficiency. We maintain a young operational fleet of 166 Boeing 737 aircraft, 72 Airbus A320 family aircraft, 34 Bombardier Q400 aircraft, and 60 Embraer 175 aircraft.

JetBlue flies Airbus and EMB 170/175

Not mentioned in the article is Spirit....Airbus....and has been adding flights in many WN stations.....

Another no mention is MOXY...to be launched in 2021 or so with Airbus 220's

Not really sure what this has to do with Kentucky aviation
 
SkyVoice
Posts: 331
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2017 9:34 pm

Re: Kentucky Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:02 am

[/quote]Speaking of LEX-DEN flights (and this is a Kentucky thread after all), I did not know the original Frontier Airlines served LEX during the early 1980s. Just before ceasing operations, Frontier had LEX-STL-DEN on 732s. Anybody know how long this service lasted or if it was always one-stop?[/quote]

Interesting that you should remember that. The original Frontier Airlines (FL) did, indeed, serve Lexington, and they flew to Denver with a stop in St. Louis. What I remember most about that was that a large percentage of LEX passengers that would fly Frontier to St. Louis, then make interline connections at STL. For instance, I worked at First Security National Bank in 1983-84, and the Bank sent my boss to a seminar in Dallas. Commonwealth Travel, the agency used by First Security, routed her to STL on Frontier, then to DFW on Ozark. (For her return to LEX, she flew back on Delta via Atlanta.) Frontier's acquisition by PeoplExpress, followed shortly thereafter by Frontier's declaring bankruptcy and ceasing service, brought the end of FL's flights to Blue Grass Airport.
"Your talents may take you where your character can not keep you." - Terry Nelson
 
Bluegrass60
Posts: 394
Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:15 am

Re: Kentucky Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 22, 2019 11:47 am

kwp302 wrote:
Bluegrass60 wrote:
Today in the Dallas Morning News: "An acquisition by Southwest motivated by a desire to diversify away from the Max creates significant risks in the near term for LUV," Stifel analysts said in a Monday research note speculating whether low-cost carriers Alaska Air Group Inc. (NYSE: ALK) and JetBlue Airways (Nasdaq: JBLU) could be M&A targets."

Alaska Airlines remains focused on improving both passenger comfort and our fuel efficiency. We maintain a young operational fleet of 166 Boeing 737 aircraft, 72 Airbus A320 family aircraft, 34 Bombardier Q400 aircraft, and 60 Embraer 175 aircraft.

JetBlue flies Airbus and EMB 170/175

Not mentioned in the article is Spirit....Airbus....and has been adding flights in many WN stations.....

Another no mention is MOXY...to be launched in 2021 or so with Airbus 220's

Not really sure what this has to do with Kentucky aviation


"WN is the largest carrier at SDF(based on annual passengers) and has operations at CVG. An acquisition by WN "could" have impact on Ky Aviation. Similar to DL's acquisition of NWA....it spelled the end of DLs hub at CVG....which impacted Ky Aviation. Specific to WN...think the impact would more likely be positive"
 
ibthebigd
Posts: 289
Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:12 pm

Re: Kentucky Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 22, 2019 12:06 pm

I still miss AirTran. It was so convenient flying LEX-MCO out of LEX.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 
TYSflyer
Posts: 265
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2017 5:44 pm

Re: Kentucky Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 22, 2019 1:09 pm

tnair1974 wrote:
TYSflyer wrote:
tnair1974 wrote:
LEX may be somewhat like TYS use to be regarding DEN.

IIRC, TYS officials during the 1990s said at the time that UA was reluctant to start TYS-DEN due to concern too much traffic would be drawn from their TYS-ORD flights. It's only relatively recently that UA has had consistent year round TYS-DEN service, even if on United Express EMB-145s. There's also seasonal TYS-DEN flights by both G4 and F9 (having the likes of Gatlinburg near Knoxville does not hurt).

With Lexington's robust growth, seems it's just a matter of time when UA feels they can serve westbound customers with LEX-DEN/ORD/IAH/all at the same time (for now, DEN is the only of the three not served). This said, someone like G4 could step in first with LEX-DEN, but it may be seasonal and/or less than daily which of course is less ideal for business travelers.

Not sure if TYS-SLC/LEX-SLC would work even with regional jets. Even some larger markets like IND-SLC and CMH-SLC have been off and on over the years albeit with mainline DL equipment.

United started TYS-DEN around 2005-2006 with a daily CR7. It converted to ER4 after the merger with Continental. It now operates twice daily generally ER4 but occasionally will be CR7 or E175. It has never operated seasonally. F9 launched in 2011 prior to morphing into an ULCC. It was originally operated year round but after 2 years went seasonal. However it went back to year round last year with plans to do the same in 2020 albeit just twice weekly service in the winter. G4 just launched summer seasonal service this past summer on TYS-DEN. I do feel LEX could have similar service, and I am somewhat surprised UA has not jumped on DEN from there with their growth in DEN recently.



Thanks for the nice info. I (wrongly) thought UA briefly dropped TYS-DEN during the late 2000s. Although I have lived in Knoxville and used the airport, I grew up closer to CHA than TYS.

Speaking of LEX-DEN flights (and this is a Kentucky thread after all), I did not know the original Frontier Airlines served LEX during the early 1980s. Just before ceasing operations, Frontier had LEX-STL-DEN on 732s. Anybody know how long this service lasted or if it was always one-stop?

Piedmont already flew SDF-DEN at the time which could have persuaded the first Frontier to serve LEX instead.

Knoxville has had a larger metro population than Lexington, but I'm also a little perplexed there is no LEX-DEN service at the moment.

I never knew the original Frontier served LEX. I have always figured that the possibility of LEX-DEN nonstop service is hampered by the significant level of service available on CVG-DEN. CVG has UA, DL, F9, WN and seasonal G4. I’m sure there are a good number of people making the short trip north to fly out of CVG.
 
jplatts
Posts: 2970
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Kentucky Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 22, 2019 1:13 pm

TYSflyer wrote:
I never knew the original Frontier served LEX. I have always figured that the possibility of LEX-DEN nonstop service is hampered by the significant level of service available on CVG-DEN. CVG has UA, DL, F9, WN and seasonal G4. I’m sure there are a good number of people making the short trip north to fly out of CVG.


In addition to nonstop service to DEN out of CVG, UA and WN both serve DEN nonstop from SDF, and F9 also has less-than-daily seasonal nonstop service to DEN from SDF.

I had previously mentioned about UA possibly adding LEX-DEN nonstop service with UA already serving DEN nonstop from a few domestic destinations east of the Mississippi that do not have nonstop LCC service to DEN.
 
Bluegrass60
Posts: 394
Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:15 am

Re: Kentucky Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 23, 2019 1:49 pm

SDF posted Sep 2019 Traffic. Up 9.04%. Applying 9% growth to remaining months estimates total 2019 = 4,285,022 which is a record. If 2020 grows 5% or more...SDF would be classified as a medium sized airport by JD Powers (4.5M - 9.9M annual pax). Per that criteria SDF would be compared to regional airports like CVG, CMH, etc for airport satisfaction studies beginning in 2020 or 2021. If growth continues in the 3% range SDF will exceed 5M pax by 2024. If regional/national economies keep growing and tourism continues its trajectory to 25M visitors by 2025 SDF will exceed 5M pax before 2024.

Interesting podcast here: https://www.washingtonpost.com/post-liv ... ng-flight/

@ the 56" mark is an interview with Mitsubishi Aircraft discussing the future of regional air travel in the US. SDF geographic location is perfect to take advantage of the growth expected as regional air travel innovates with more fuel efficient aircraft that are also more passenger comfortable. Needleman's MOXY is exactly targeting this opportunity. The growth opportunity dwarfs any other USA air travel opps.
 
Bluegrass60
Posts: 394
Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:15 am

Re: Kentucky Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:15 pm

Spirit issues MOU for 100 A320neo (mix of models) and options for 50 more thru 2027. Aircraft at end of 2018 = 128; end of 2019 = 145; end of 2020 = 166; end of 2021 = 193. Would not be surprised to see Spirit announce SDF sometime in next 9 mos.

They will be an even fiercer competitor on leisure routes.....
 
SkyVoice
Posts: 331
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Re: Kentucky Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Oct 24, 2019 1:27 am

Bluegrass60 wrote:
Would not be surprised to see Spirit announce SDF sometime in next 9 mos.


. . . or CVG. Actually, I have been pushing for NK to begin service to Dayton, Ohio, for some time. When the Delta hub at CVG had airfares up in the stratosphere, I was one of many Kentuckians who drove past CVG to catch a flight & save hundreds of $$$ at DAY.
"Your talents may take you where your character can not keep you." - Terry Nelson
 
tnair1974
Posts: 78
Joined: Sun Sep 15, 2019 5:37 pm

Re: Kentucky Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Oct 25, 2019 12:08 am

SkyVoice wrote:
Interesting that you should remember that [the original Frontier]. The original Frontier Airlines (FL) did, indeed, serve Lexington, and they flew to Denver with a stop in St. Louis. What I remember most about that was that a large percentage of LEX passengers that would fly Frontier to St. Louis, then make interline connections at STL. For instance, I worked at First Security National Bank in 1983-84, and the Bank sent my boss to a seminar in Dallas. Commonwealth Travel, the agency used by First Security, routed her to STL on Frontier, then to DFW on Ozark. (For her return to LEX, she flew back on Delta via Atlanta.) Frontier's acquisition by PeoplExpress, followed shortly thereafter by Frontier's declaring bankruptcy and ceasing service, brought the end of FL's flights to Blue Grass Airport.

Thanks for the info!

Actually, I only very recently learned that FL served LEX (while looking at the Wikipedia page for FL). I then got more info from departedflights.com .

The only time I recall seeing an FL aircraft was at ATL during the early 1980s when I was maybe eight or nine. In the midst of the large wave of EA and DL planes, I thought the color scheme of that FL 732 really stood out in a nice way.
TYSflyer wrote:
tnair1974 wrote:
TYSflyer wrote:
United started TYS-DEN around 2005-2006 with a daily CR7. It converted to ER4 after the merger with Continental. It now operates twice daily generally ER4 but occasionally will be CR7 or E175. It has never operated seasonally. F9 launched in 2011 prior to morphing into an ULCC. It was originally operated year round but after 2 years went seasonal. However it went back to year round last year with plans to do the same in 2020 albeit just twice weekly service in the winter. G4 just launched summer seasonal service this past summer on TYS-DEN. I do feel LEX could have similar service, and I am somewhat surprised UA has not jumped on DEN from there with their growth in DEN recently.

Thanks for the nice info. I (wrongly) thought UA briefly dropped TYS-DEN during the late 2000s. Although I have lived in Knoxville and used the airport, I grew up closer to CHA than TYS.
[snip]
Knoxville has had a larger metro population than Lexington, but I'm also a little perplexed there is no LEX-DEN service at the moment.

I never knew the original Frontier served LEX. I have always figured that the possibility of LEX-DEN nonstop service is hampered by the significant level of service available on CVG-DEN. CVG has UA, DL, F9, WN and seasonal G4. I’m sure there are a good number of people making the short trip north to fly out of CVG.


jplatts wrote:
In addition to nonstop service to DEN out of CVG, UA and WN both serve DEN nonstop from SDF, and F9 also has less-than-daily seasonal nonstop service to DEN from SDF.

Besides competition from CVG and SDF, another factor may be the aircraft type. For UA, a 50 passenger jet like a UA Express EM4 could be likely to start any daily LEX-DEN service. But EM4s and (relatively unpopular) CR2s are out of production; current examples aren't exactly getting any younger. New design successors to the likes of EM4s don't seem to be a high priority. So without good future growth, even a single daily 70 seater for DEN-LEX may be a bit much.

Without continued growth, even current UA EM4 routes may need to be cut/get reduced frequency if EM4s/CR2s can only be replaced by larger planes.
 
jplatts
Posts: 2970
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Re: Kentucky Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Oct 25, 2019 12:37 am

tnair1974 wrote:
Besides competition from CVG and SDF, another factor may be the aircraft type. For UA, a 50 passenger jet like a UA Express EM4 could be likely to start any daily LEX-DEN service. But EM4s and (relatively unpopular) CR2s are out of production; current examples aren't exactly getting any younger. New design successors to the likes of EM4s don't seem to be a high priority. So without good future growth, even a single daily 70 seater for DEN-LEX may be a bit much.

Without continued growth, even current UA EM4 routes may need to be cut/get reduced frequency if EM4s/CR2s can only be replaced by larger planes.


UA will be taking delivery of 50 new CRJ550 regional jets, which are configured with 10 first class seats, 20 Economy Plus seats, and 20 economy seats. UA operating LEX-DEN nonstop service using CRJ550s might be an option once UA has enough CRJ550's in its fleet.
 
kcrwflyer
Posts: 2614
Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 11:57 am

Re: Kentucky Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Oct 25, 2019 1:24 pm

jplatts wrote:
tnair1974 wrote:
Besides competition from CVG and SDF, another factor may be the aircraft type. For UA, a 50 passenger jet like a UA Express EM4 could be likely to start any daily LEX-DEN service. But EM4s and (relatively unpopular) CR2s are out of production; current examples aren't exactly getting any younger. New design successors to the likes of EM4s don't seem to be a high priority. So without good future growth, even a single daily 70 seater for DEN-LEX may be a bit much.

Without continued growth, even current UA EM4 routes may need to be cut/get reduced frequency if EM4s/CR2s can only be replaced by larger planes.


UA will be taking delivery of 50 new CRJ550 regional jets, which are configured with 10 first class seats, 20 Economy Plus seats, and 20 economy seats. UA operating LEX-DEN nonstop service using CRJ550s might be an option once UA has enough CRJ550's in its fleet.



I believe the weight restriction due to the scope clause keeps the range of the 550 in the 600-700 mile ballpark.
 
tnair1974
Posts: 78
Joined: Sun Sep 15, 2019 5:37 pm

Re: Kentucky Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Oct 27, 2019 1:43 am

kcrwflyer wrote:
jplatts wrote:
tnair1974 wrote:
Besides competition from CVG and SDF, another factor may be the aircraft type. For UA, a 50 passenger jet like a UA Express EM4 could be likely to start any daily LEX-DEN service. But EM4s and (relatively unpopular) CR2s are out of production; current examples aren't exactly getting any younger. New design successors to the likes of EM4s don't seem to be a high priority. So without good future growth, even a single daily 70 seater for DEN-LEX may be a bit much.

Without continued growth, even current UA EM4 routes may need to be cut/get reduced frequency if EM4s/CR2s can only be replaced by larger planes.


UA will be taking delivery of 50 new CRJ550 regional jets, which are configured with 10 first class seats, 20 Economy Plus seats, and 20 economy seats. UA operating LEX-DEN nonstop service using CRJ550s might be an option once UA has enough CRJ550's in its fleet.



I believe the weight restriction due to the scope clause keeps the range of the 550 in the 600-700 mile ballpark.

The CRJ550 is largely based on the 20 year old CRJ700 design (with apparently the same basic decades old engines) with the mentioned three class seating and the mentioned weight restrictions. But I didn't know that some existing CRJ700s will be converted to 550s.

Besides the range limitations, I get the (non-professional) impression that the CRJ550 will be be too inefficient to do much other than higher yield routes

Hopefully, efficient longer range 50 seat jets won't go the way of the dodo bird. But with the relative lack of new replacements for 19 seaters like the Beech1900/Metro and 30ish seaters such as the EMB-120 Brasilia, I'm not so sure.
 
tnair1974
Posts: 78
Joined: Sun Sep 15, 2019 5:37 pm

Re: Kentucky Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:03 pm

UA will pull the plug on CVG-SFO in early January 2020 just after the end of the Christmas/New Years rush.

But customers in northern Kentucky/Cincinnati will still have both DL and F9 on this route.
 
kwp302
Posts: 77
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:59 pm

Re: Kentucky Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Nov 04, 2019 6:22 pm

Latest schedule change for SDF has UA going to 3x daily to IAH in April. Previously 4x daily.
 
kwp302
Posts: 77
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:59 pm

Re: Kentucky Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Nov 04, 2019 6:27 pm

tnair1974 wrote:
UA will pull the plug on CVG-SFO in early January 2020 just after the end of the Christmas/New Years rush.

But customers in northern Kentucky/Cincinnati will still have both DL and F9 on this route.


Any chance UA launches SDF-SFO? Less competition but similar catchment area
 
tnair1974
Posts: 78
Joined: Sun Sep 15, 2019 5:37 pm

Re: Kentucky Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Nov 06, 2019 11:03 pm

kwp302 wrote:
tnair1974 wrote:
UA will pull the plug on CVG-SFO in early January 2020 just after the end of the Christmas/New Years rush.

But customers in northern Kentucky/Cincinnati will still have both DL and F9 on this route.


Any chance UA launches SDF-SFO? Less competition but similar catchment area


I wonder that SDF-SFO may be a little too long and thin for even a UA A319. Wouldn't mind being wrong, though. AA's SDF-LAX seems to be doing better than expected, although I have not heard about their overall loads (and yields).

Maybe United Express SDF-SFO might succeed, as they have relatively long flights such as MSN-SFO and from time to time STL-SFO on E75 jets. But would SDF-SFO cause the E75 to take a payload hit, especially with strong headwinds going west?
 
jplatts
Posts: 2970
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Kentucky Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Nov 06, 2019 11:54 pm

tnair1974 wrote:
I wonder that SDF-SFO may be a little too long and thin for even a UA A319. Wouldn't mind being wrong, though. AA's SDF-LAX seems to be doing better than expected, although I have not heard about their overall loads (and yields).

Maybe United Express SDF-SFO might succeed, as they have relatively long flights such as MSN-SFO and from time to time STL-SFO on E75 jets. But would SDF-SFO cause the E75 to take a payload hit, especially with strong headwinds going west?


Here are the distances of SFO-SDF and the longest regional jet nonstop routes within the contiguous U.S.:
PDX-DAL - 1626 mi
SEA-DAL - 1670 mi
LAX-MSN - 1687 mi
SEA-MKE - 1694 mi
STL-SFO - 1735 mi
SFO-MSN - 1772 mi
SFO-SDF - 1990 mi (218 mi longer than SFO-MSN)

SDF-SFO nonstop service likely requires mainline aircraft with SDF-SFO being more than 200 miles longer than the longest regional jet nonstop routes within the contiguous U.S.

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