FATFlyer
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Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:49 am

FAT has posted additional passenger numbers for 2018. November 2018 passengers counts were posted but October was not.

The strong growth has been continuing.

November 2018 - up 12.7% from November 2017 - 130,402 domestic O&D; 18,473 international O&D
http://flyfresno.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/November-2018.pdf

As of November 2018, FAT had handled a calendar year total of 1,617,127 passengers (1,417,722 domestic; 199,405 international).

Using the December 2017 O&D numbers (135,365) plus an increase guess, it looks like a projection for the final 2018 O&D number will be over 1,750,000 passengers at FAT.

It is possible the number was higher than my guess due to increased capacity offered over the end of year holidays.

2018 will be a new passenger record.

Fiscal year O&D growth since July is an increase of roughly 17.5%.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
WN732
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:56 am

Hopefully, things don't decrease with UA's downgauge of a majority of their flights. I've noticed that fares are becoming more competitive and reasonable out of FAT, which I am sure is having less folks trek over to the Bay Area or SMF. The fares here have definitely hampered growth for so long, but things are constantly changing here in Fresno.

I'm hoping that we will see mainline AS someday soon.
 
whatusaid
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Jan 19, 2019 7:43 am

WN732 wrote:
Hopefully, things don't decrease with UA's downgauge of a majority of their flights. I've noticed that fares are becoming more competitive and reasonable out of FAT, which I am sure is having less folks trek over to the Bay Area or SMF. The fares here have definitely hampered growth for so long, but things are constantly changing here in Fresno.

I'm hoping that we will see mainline AS someday soon.



United added a 12:55p to DEN using a GoJet CRJ 700 starting in June. That replaces a OO CRJ200 that was in the 5pm hr that made little sense and seemed nothing more than a response to the old F9 schedule. Now, they’re back head to head with F9’s 321 which is moving to midday. FAT-LAX goes back to 4X a day as well, with a 175 turn in the afternoon. Looks as if tonight’s schedule load doesn’t include SFO changes (yet). UA so lags everyone else in this market - 13 flights a day and only three have 1st? Pathetic.
 
friendlyskies22
Posts: 77
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:09 am

UA needs to run at least one mainline acft in the morning to DEN to hit all the connections. 2.5 hours in a CR2 is
painful, plus the gate check issue. They also used to have the late night O/N mainline which picked up all the
late arriving connections in SFO and make the morning connections in SFO with the return. RJ's seem to get
cancelled/delayed to SFO more often when they are having their frequent low clouds issues.
The ORD RT is coming back in a 738, which is great. I would think IAH would be a destination to consider with the
huge connections to Mexico and SA and I bet a FAT-MRY-HNL would carry some decent loads!
Go FAT Go!
 
ibthebigd
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Jan 19, 2019 12:23 pm

Any chance 2019 is the year Southwest comes to FAT?

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FATFlyer
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:41 pm

whatusaid wrote:
UA so lags everyone else in this market - 13 flights a day and only three have 1st? Pathetic.


I'l give UA one extra point for frequency/number of destinations vs Delta. DL currently shows 1 CR7 and 2 CR2s to SLC for summer. That is more pathetic in my mind.

ibthebigd wrote:
Any chance 2019 is the year Southwest comes to FAT?


Fresno airport staff told the City Council last year that Southwest said no new cities in 2019. This year the WN new city focus is supposedly only Hawaii.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Jan 20, 2019 4:17 pm

FATFlyer wrote:
whatusaid wrote:
UA so lags everyone else in this market - 13 flights a day and only three have 1st? Pathetic.


I'l give UA one extra point for frequency/number of destinations vs Delta. DL currently shows 1 CR7 and 2 CR2s to SLC for summer. That is more pathetic in my mind.


I'd say pathetic is that FAT has as many passenger flights in its first hour of daily operations as a similar-sized city 110 miles south has all day. FAT is obviously doing something to acquire and then keep all its service.

So what exactly is the secret of FAT's sustainable growth? I realize that the 220+ mile trek to LAX and nearly 200 mile journey to SFO has always meant that a drive to a larger airport is an option that, percentage-wise, fewer people chose, unlike say Bakersfield to LAX or Stockton to SMF/OAK/SFO, but FAT sustains a reasonable level of gravity for its airport, meaning the local demand from the Fresno area is booming. What is driving this? Is there a particular industry in the Fresno area that is thriving here?

What is Fresno doing right, and will somebody please pass that information on to Bakersfield? Thanks!! ;)
 
WN732
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Jan 20, 2019 7:32 pm

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
FATFlyer wrote:
whatusaid wrote:
UA so lags everyone else in this market - 13 flights a day and only three have 1st? Pathetic.


I'l give UA one extra point for frequency/number of destinations vs Delta. DL currently shows 1 CR7 and 2 CR2s to SLC for summer. That is more pathetic in my mind.


I'd say pathetic is that FAT has as many passenger flights in its first hour of daily operations as a similar-sized city 110 miles south has all day. FAT is obviously doing something to acquire and then keep all its service.

So what exactly is the secret of FAT's sustainable growth? I realize that the 220+ mile trek to LAX and nearly 200 mile journey to SFO has always meant that a drive to a larger airport is an option that, percentage-wise, fewer people chose, unlike say Bakersfield to LAX or Stockton to SMF/OAK/SFO, but FAT sustains a reasonable level of gravity for its airport, meaning the local demand from the Fresno area is booming. What is driving this? Is there a particular industry in the Fresno area that is thriving here?

What is Fresno doing right, and will somebody please pass that information on to Bakersfield? Thanks!! ;)


Major AG and to a lesser extent oil fuel these flights. Many large ag companies in the CV have offices in other states that send their executives around. Some are even willing to pay for those first class seats. For instance AA is killing it on their 3x daily flights to DFW, which are all 738.

And then of course you have other business folks and families that need to travel. FAT has an MSA of just over 1 million.
 
whatusaid
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Jan 20, 2019 9:37 pm

WN732 wrote:
PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
FATFlyer wrote:

I'l give UA one extra point for frequency/number of destinations vs Delta. DL currently shows 1 CR7 and 2 CR2s to SLC for summer. That is more pathetic in my mind.


I'd say pathetic is that FAT has as many passenger flights in its first hour of daily operations as a similar-sized city 110 miles south has all day. FAT is obviously doing something to acquire and then keep all its service.

So what exactly is the secret of FAT's sustainable growth? I realize that the 220+ mile trek to LAX and nearly 200 mile journey to SFO has always meant that a drive to a larger airport is an option that, percentage-wise, fewer people chose, unlike say Bakersfield to LAX or Stockton to SMF/OAK/SFO, but FAT sustains a reasonable level of gravity for its airport, meaning the local demand from the Fresno area is booming. What is driving this? Is there a particular industry in the Fresno area that is thriving here?

What is Fresno doing right, and will somebody please pass that information on to Bakersfield? Thanks!! ;)


Major AG and to a lesser extent oil fuel these flights. Many large ag companies in the CV have offices in other states that send their executives around. Some are even willing to pay for those first class seats. For instance AA is killing it on their 3x daily flights to DFW, which are all 738.

And then of course you have other business folks and families that need to travel. FAT has an MSA of just over 1 million.



Visalia MSA is another 460,000; add Kings and Madera for another 300,000. Fresno's catchment is closer to 2 million. The airport recently stated that greater than 50% of the traffic is from other than Fresno/Clovis. Merced is a coin flip, either Fresno or SMF/OAK, but I'd not count Merced out of the mix.

And as to AG, which I am employed in, yes, there's a good deal of AG related traffic, esecially on AS to the PNW, and AA to DFW and Phoenix. You've a number of Ag chemical consultants that hit the road each Monday, there's a few international AG companies with HQs here that are heavy domestic and international on a weekly basis, there's (Ruiz Foods) that has marketing staff on the road each week, Ag software consultants (Famous has their HQ here, as an example), and the list goes on. I remember the days of a first class upgrade to DFW being sure thing with my Platinum status - not anymore.

There's still a ton of people who drive to the Bay Area for flights, especially for Hawaii, which is a major destination.
 
ibthebigd
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Jan 20, 2019 9:47 pm

Would HA ever consider FAT with the A321?

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FATFlyer
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jan 21, 2019 1:44 am

ibthebigd wrote:
Would HA ever consider FAT with the A321?


Personally I think it is more likely AS would operate Fresno to Hawaii a few days per week.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
flyfresno
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jan 21, 2019 4:53 am

FATFlyer wrote:
ibthebigd wrote:
Would HA ever consider FAT with the A321?


Personally I think it is more likely AS would operate Fresno to Hawaii a few days per week.


AS seems the most likely, as they can still connect passengers through other cities between Hawaii and Fresno on days when there is not a non-stop, but HA would have the added bonus of being able to connect passengers onward to other islands. HNL seems like the only possibility for a nonstop in the short term, but there are still a dozen or more daily passengers headed to the other big 3 islands, so having options for those would probably help fill an A321.
 
flyfresno
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jan 21, 2019 5:18 am

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
FATFlyer wrote:
whatusaid wrote:
UA so lags everyone else in this market - 13 flights a day and only three have 1st? Pathetic.


I'l give UA one extra point for frequency/number of destinations vs Delta. DL currently shows 1 CR7 and 2 CR2s to SLC for summer. That is more pathetic in my mind.


I'd say pathetic is that FAT has as many passenger flights in its first hour of daily operations as a similar-sized city 110 miles south has all day. FAT is obviously doing something to acquire and then keep all its service.

So what exactly is the secret of FAT's sustainable growth? I realize that the 220+ mile trek to LAX and nearly 200 mile journey to SFO has always meant that a drive to a larger airport is an option that, percentage-wise, fewer people chose, unlike say Bakersfield to LAX or Stockton to SMF/OAK/SFO, but FAT sustains a reasonable level of gravity for its airport, meaning the local demand from the Fresno area is booming. What is driving this? Is there a particular industry in the Fresno area that is thriving here?

What is Fresno doing right, and will somebody please pass that information on to Bakersfield? Thanks!! ;)


I think I also said this in another post, but population base (Fresno is bigger), proximity to other large airports (BFL is closer to BUR and LAX), and business traffic (oil is down in BFL) all contribute. Both cities are lacking for air service domestically based on population (BFL should have service closer to FSD or FAR, and FAT should be closer to GEG or even RNO).
 
WN732
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jan 21, 2019 6:03 am

whatusaid wrote:
WN732 wrote:
PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:

I'd say pathetic is that FAT has as many passenger flights in its first hour of daily operations as a similar-sized city 110 miles south has all day. FAT is obviously doing something to acquire and then keep all its service.

So what exactly is the secret of FAT's sustainable growth? I realize that the 220+ mile trek to LAX and nearly 200 mile journey to SFO has always meant that a drive to a larger airport is an option that, percentage-wise, fewer people chose, unlike say Bakersfield to LAX or Stockton to SMF/OAK/SFO, but FAT sustains a reasonable level of gravity for its airport, meaning the local demand from the Fresno area is booming. What is driving this? Is there a particular industry in the Fresno area that is thriving here?

What is Fresno doing right, and will somebody please pass that information on to Bakersfield? Thanks!! ;)


Major AG and to a lesser extent oil fuel these flights. Many large ag companies in the CV have offices in other states that send their executives around. Some are even willing to pay for those first class seats. For instance AA is killing it on their 3x daily flights to DFW, which are all 738.

And then of course you have other business folks and families that need to travel. FAT has an MSA of just over 1 million.



Visalia MSA is another 460,000; add Kings and Madera for another 300,000. Fresno's catchment is closer to 2 million. The airport recently stated that greater than 50% of the traffic is from other than Fresno/Clovis. Merced is a coin flip, either Fresno or SMF/OAK, but I'd not count Merced out of the mix.

And as to AG, which I am employed in, yes, there's a good deal of AG related traffic, esecially on AS to the PNW, and AA to DFW and Phoenix. You've a number of Ag chemical consultants that hit the road each Monday, there's a few international AG companies with HQs here that are heavy domestic and international on a weekly basis, there's (Ruiz Foods) that has marketing staff on the road each week, Ag software consultants (Famous has their HQ here, as an example), and the list goes on. I remember the days of a first class upgrade to DFW being sure thing with my Platinum status - not anymore.

There's still a ton of people who drive to the Bay Area for flights, especially for Hawaii, which is a major destination.



You're absolutely right. I work in IT in Fresno, and a large majority of my clients have something to do with AG, whether they're farmers, packers, etc. And most of them use Famous. We get a lot of calls for assistance with users (usually higher ups) that need help setting up their laptops and phones for remote work. I always ask them where they are headed, who they're flying with. These people are not driving up to the bay area for flights.

People don't really realize the impact that AG has and the revenue that it can potentially generate. Fresno is also working on diversifying its economy with more tech jobs being created. This will only drive more people to fly out of FAT.
 
FATFlyer
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jan 21, 2019 6:24 pm

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
What is Fresno doing right, and will somebody please pass that information on to Bakersfield? Thanks!! ;)

whatusaid wrote:
Visalia MSA is another 460,000; add Kings and Madera for another 300,000. Fresno's catchment is closer to 2 million. The airport recently stated that greater than 50% of the traffic is from other than Fresno/Clovis. Merced is a coin flip, either Fresno or SMF/OAK, but I'd not count Merced out of the mix


I remembered some info from BFL's SCASD grant application.

BFL leakage is 62% of its catchment area to LAX according to a 2016 study.

But 7% of BFL's leakage is to Fresno, higher than the 4.5% of BFL's catchment area using BUR.

I'd be curious about the passengers choosing FAT but my guess is that many are on the FAT-GDL flights. BFL spent $8 million in 2006 to convert its old passenger terminal into a separate international terminal with its own security check, baggage claim, concessions, etc. But now that building sits empty except for the customs agents checking cargo and a few private flights.

At the bottom of this article though, there is a comment from someone in BFL's area who says they chose FAT due to the SEA flights.
http://www.bakersfield.com/columnists/robert-price/robert-price-meadows-field-vs-lax-not-really-but-local/article_d4da01dc-8918-11e8-a878-7b05c9504c80.html
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
FATFlyer
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 25, 2019 10:45 pm

FAT staff will make a presentation to the Fresno City Council on Thursday January 31 about the phase 1 terminal expansion. Per the agenda the presentation will occur sometime after 1:30pm.

The presentation PowerPoint slides were posted with the Council agenda today. They are available at:
http://fresno.legistar.com/View.ashx?M=F&ID=6996852&GUID=3CCC56E5-956D-4A90-AAF6-90A55A4BB9EF

The slides have a lot of information including tentative floor plans for the phase 1 project (both ground level and 2nd floor) included at the end of the slides.

A few things I noted from the slides:

  • Construction of the expanded terminal including new FIS, conversion of current FIS to a passenger reception hall, 2 new domestic/international gates, 3 story parking garage, etc. is scheduled to start in Feb 2021 with completion in October 2022.
  • Financing the expansion will include increased airline, ground transportation, and parking fees with the first increases beginning later this year.
  • The airport says FY2018 enplanements were 816,582. Sources of the enplanements were: 334,799 from Fresno; 114,322 from Clovis; 81,658 from Visalia; 285,803 from other cities.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
WN732
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 25, 2019 11:16 pm

Wow only in CA can a parking garage cost $46 Million, almost as much as the new concourse, with only two gates! That's crazy!

But, I am sure it will be nice.
 
flyfresno
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Jan 26, 2019 5:30 am

Looks like a mostly nice plan. A few questions/comments:
1) I’m guessing it’s based purely on money, but I’m surprised there isn’t a secure walkway at the front of the new gates (nearest to the jetways) to allow the flow of non-cleated int’l pax without shutting the entire gate area for departing pax. I see a significant number of people arriving before 9pm for the late red eyes to Mexico...on nights when there are 3 or even 4 flights, where are all those people gonna wait if both gates have to be cleared to let out arriving int’l passengers? I can see the food court seating getting crammed and the “composure” area ending up full of waiting people, especially when things are delayed. I’m guessing they will try sending them down the domestic concourse to wait, but seems like more trouble than it’s worth.
2) Will there be escalators going down into the FIS? That part of the diagram looks different than the up portion.
3) What sort of concessions are planned? Will there be a focus on local brands like in other airport expansions?
 
FATFlyer
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Jan 26, 2019 6:45 pm

flyfresno wrote:
Looks like a mostly nice plan. A few questions/comments:
1) I’m guessing it’s based purely on money, but I’m surprised there isn’t a secure walkway at the front of the new gates (nearest to the jetways) to allow the flow of non-cleated int’l pax without shutting the entire gate area for departing pax. I see a significant number of people arriving before 9pm for the late red eyes to Mexico...on nights when there are 3 or even 4 flights, where are all those people gonna wait if both gates have to be cleared to let out arriving int’l passengers? I can see the food court seating getting crammed and the “composure” area ending up full of waiting people, especially when things are delayed. I’m guessing they will try sending them down the domestic concourse to wait, but seems like more trouble than it’s worth.
2) Will there be escalators going down into the FIS? That part of the diagram looks different than the up portion.
3) What sort of concessions are planned? Will there be a focus on local brands like in other airport expansions?


1) I had the same thought. That might be a comment the airport needs to receive before the final design stage.

2) I think that the plan shows a ramp down to the FIS. When I look at that walkway from the gates down to the FIS I see several arrows indicating 2 u-turns, so 3 sections of sloping pedestrian corridor.

3) I have not heard anything about future concessions even in the current areas. But local brands would be good.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
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Frontier14
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Jan 26, 2019 7:50 pm

WN732 wrote:
Wow only in CA can a parking garage cost $46 Million, almost as much as the new concourse, with only two gates! That's crazy! .


Has Tony Sopprano left New Jersey and set up shop in Fresno? It fits the mafiaso's game :spin:

Frontier 14
 
whatusaid
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jan 28, 2019 2:55 am

FATFlyer wrote:
FAT staff will make a presentation to the Fresno City Council on Thursday January 31 about the phase 1 terminal expansion. Per the agenda the presentation will occur sometime after 1:30pm.

The presentation PowerPoint slides were posted with the Council agenda today. They are available at:
http://fresno.legistar.com/View.ashx?M=F&ID=6996852&GUID=3CCC56E5-956D-4A90-AAF6-90A55A4BB9EF

The slides have a lot of information including tentative floor plans for the phase 1 project (both ground level and 2nd floor) included at the end of the slides.

A few things I noted from the slides:

  • Construction of the expanded terminal including new FIS, conversion of current FIS to a passenger reception hall, 2 new domestic/international gates, 3 story parking garage, etc. is scheduled to start in Feb 2021 with completion in October 2022.
  • Financing the expansion will include increased airline, ground transportation, and parking fees with the first increases beginning later this year.
  • The airport says FY2018 enplanements were 816,582. Sources of the enplanements were: 334,799 from Fresno; 114,322 from Clovis; 81,658 from Visalia; 285,803 from other cities.


Not sure if I can get behind the cost of the parking. The FY2018 enplanements date before the City Council understates the growth, given most of the summer traffic rise is not included in these numbers and that the Master Plan was largely completed before the most recent growth was realized. While the increase in capacity going forward is more limited based upon what's been announced thus far, I'd prefer to see a larger investment in gate space as compared to a $45 million parking structure. Granted, there's a need for added parking, but can't we address the next phase through surface as compared to garage parking and expand the new concourse to at least four gates that will accomodate both domestic and international service? While the current concourse can handle some incremental growth now that we've the remodel at 6/8, if DL or WN ever come into this market (well, in DL's case - wakes up to what they're leaving on the table) I'd like to know how the airport plans to deal with sustained growth of 25% or more. They've been able to handle this year's big growth, but another round of the same is going to be a challenge. My gut feel is that they're behind the curve and not ahead of what could happen and likely will.
 
flyfresno
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jan 28, 2019 4:30 am

whatusaid wrote:
FATFlyer wrote:
FAT staff will make a presentation to the Fresno City Council on Thursday January 31 about the phase 1 terminal expansion. Per the agenda the presentation will occur sometime after 1:30pm.

The presentation PowerPoint slides were posted with the Council agenda today. They are available at:
http://fresno.legistar.com/View.ashx?M=F&ID=6996852&GUID=3CCC56E5-956D-4A90-AAF6-90A55A4BB9EF

The slides have a lot of information including tentative floor plans for the phase 1 project (both ground level and 2nd floor) included at the end of the slides.

A few things I noted from the slides:

  • Construction of the expanded terminal including new FIS, conversion of current FIS to a passenger reception hall, 2 new domestic/international gates, 3 story parking garage, etc. is scheduled to start in Feb 2021 with completion in October 2022.
  • Financing the expansion will include increased airline, ground transportation, and parking fees with the first increases beginning later this year.
  • The airport says FY2018 enplanements were 816,582. Sources of the enplanements were: 334,799 from Fresno; 114,322 from Clovis; 81,658 from Visalia; 285,803 from other cities.


Not sure if I can get behind the cost of the parking. The FY2018 enplanements date before the City Council understates the growth, given most of the summer traffic rise is not included in these numbers and that the Master Plan was largely completed before the most recent growth was realized. While the increase in capacity going forward is more limited based upon what's been announced thus far, I'd prefer to see a larger investment in gate space as compared to a $45 million parking structure. Granted, there's a need for added parking, but can't we address the next phase through surface as compared to garage parking and expand the new concourse to at least four gates that will accomodate both domestic and international service? While the current concourse can handle some incremental growth now that we've the remodel at 6/8, if DL or WN ever come into this market (well, in DL's case - wakes up to what they're leaving on the table) I'd like to know how the airport plans to deal with sustained growth of 25% or more. They've been able to handle this year's big growth, but another round of the same is going to be a challenge. My gut feel is that they're behind the curve and not ahead of what could happen and likely will.


I agree with your basic idea that gate space should have priority over parking, but I also think a garage could be a bigger money maker than concessions or PFCs could with increased gate space. Either way, let the city council know that this plan is too conservative on gate space.
 
Tan Flyr
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jan 28, 2019 12:20 pm

Just another thought on the growth at FAT..maybe some are finally realizing that time is money and convenience equals more time. Actually, I fail to understand why anyone living in the core of the Fresno market would even consider the time, frustration, extra cost (fuel, higher parking rates, again extra time & wear and tear on your car ) to drive to LA or SJC/OAK/SFO. At the north edge of the Fresno catchment, I can understand using SMF for certain markets.

I am in Ag also, and when I return from a sales trip, I want to get my bag, get out of the airport and be home in 40 min. The idea of trying to get out of LAX, SFO or such and dealing with the inevitable traffic, delays, etc is just a non starter. I'll pick FAT every time, as I have nearly 99 % for the last 25 years.
 
whatusaid
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 29, 2019 6:17 am

Mexico released their traffic stats for the year today. FAT-Mexico looks to have broken records again. Over 14,000 departing pax in December helped boost the total traffic to/fr Mexico to 223,386. Morelia had 13,038 departing pax in 2018 - not bad for 2X a week, now going to 3X a week. Average departing passenger count in December on 71 flights total was 169 to Morelia and 177 to GDL. Pretty decent numbers. Here's the link: http://www.sct.gob.mx/transporte-y-medi ... y-airline/. Hard to deny that a new FIS is needed.
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Feb 01, 2019 4:14 am

Question for those in the know: is there any kind of shuttle service between FAT airport and the Fresno Amtrak station? It's a relatively short distance between the two, and given that there are fourteen San Joaquin trains per day passing through Fresno, would this be a viable business? Getting mom to LAX from Bakersfield can be spotty - but to FAT it would be a two-hour train ride followed by a short bus trip to the airport.
 
FATFlyer
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Feb 01, 2019 4:03 pm

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
Question for those in the know: is there any kind of shuttle service between FAT airport and the Fresno Amtrak station? It's a relatively short distance between the two, and given that there are fourteen San Joaquin trains per day passing through Fresno, would this be a viable business? Getting mom to LAX from Bakersfield can be spotty - but to FAT it would be a two-hour train ride followed by a short bus trip to the airport.

There is no direct shuttle. The choice is using a taxi, Uber, or Lyft between the two.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
friendlyskies22
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:36 pm

Re: Amtrak, FAT to BFL on Amtrak is 2.5 hours, then a 2+ hour ride over the hill to LA Union Station, with a stop at BUR.
The Amtrak bus does not go to LAX. If a person wanted to get to LAX, why wouldn't they just fly there direct vs going into FAT?
 
FATFlyer
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:45 pm

friendlyskies22 wrote:
Re: Amtrak, FAT to BFL on Amtrak is 2.5 hours, then a 2+ hour ride over the hill to LA Union Station, with a stop at BUR.
The Amtrak bus does not go to LAX. If a person wanted to get to LAX, why wouldn't they just fly there direct vs going into FAT?

I think they are asking about someone who lives in Bakersfield using either LAX or FAT for a flight. It is not about using FAT to reach Los Angeles.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
friendlyskies22
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Feb 01, 2019 11:56 pm

Re expansion, I wonder if they have considered pushing the car rental lot about 250' to the NW and make new gates 2/4,
so 737's could get in and push out. Seems to be vacant land just up E. Clinton adjacent to the second car rental facility that
could be used to store excess rental vehicles. The other key is to maintain inexpensive long term parking. That $8 is a good number and I know helps keep people from driving and parking at SJC/OAK, etc.
 
flyfresno
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Feb 02, 2019 5:01 pm

FATFlyer wrote:
PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
Question for those in the know: is there any kind of shuttle service between FAT airport and the Fresno Amtrak station? It's a relatively short distance between the two, and given that there are fourteen San Joaquin trains per day passing through Fresno, would this be a viable business? Getting mom to LAX from Bakersfield can be spotty - but to FAT it would be a two-hour train ride followed by a short bus trip to the airport.

There is no direct shuttle. The choice is using a taxi, Uber, or Lyft between the two.


Two more choices: FAX bus service (requires a bit of a walk) and the YARTS shuttle from May to September (but only 3 times per day).
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Feb 02, 2019 5:39 pm

friendlyskies22 wrote:
Re: Amtrak, FAT to BFL on Amtrak is 2.5 hours, then a 2+ hour ride over the hill to LA Union Station, with a stop at BUR.
The Amtrak bus does not go to LAX. If a person wanted to get to LAX, why wouldn't they just fly there direct vs going into FAT?


I am sorry for the confusion, I was referring to the possibility of a shuttle service from Fresno Amtrak to Fresno airport (FAT), to connect Amtrak passengers from Bakersfield to somewhere around Stockton (the point at which SMF is closer) to the airport. The distance of 5.5 miles, though, might make Uber or Lyft more economical than a scheduled bus.

It kills me that Bakersfield is the ONLY city on the Amtrak San Joaquin route that one cannot buy a ticket for solely to L.A. Union Station - one must purchase train travel, and Wasco is just too far away to drop-off/pick-up. The Airport Bus company in Bakersfield now only runs four times a day, and less than that on weekends. I'd love for mom to be able to take the bus to Union Station from Bakersfield, and then connect to the FlyAway shuttle, but that isn't an option.

Given the hassles, though, of getting around L.A. to LAX, FAT is becoming a much more viable alternative without having to worry about parking.
 
whatusaid
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Feb 02, 2019 6:39 pm

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
friendlyskies22 wrote:
Re: Amtrak, FAT to BFL on Amtrak is 2.5 hours, then a 2+ hour ride over the hill to LA Union Station, with a stop at BUR.
The Amtrak bus does not go to LAX. If a person wanted to get to LAX, why wouldn't they just fly there direct vs going into FAT?


I am sorry for the confusion, I was referring to the possibility of a shuttle service from Fresno Amtrak to Fresno airport (FAT), to connect Amtrak passengers from Bakersfield to somewhere around Stockton (the point at which SMF is closer) to the airport. The distance of 5.5 miles, though, might make Uber or Lyft more economical than a scheduled bus.

It kills me that Bakersfield is the ONLY city on the Amtrak San Joaquin route that one cannot buy a ticket for solely to L.A. Union Station - one must purchase train travel, and Wasco is just too far away to drop-off/pick-up. The Airport Bus company in Bakersfield now only runs four times a day, and less than that on weekends. I'd love for mom to be able to take the bus to Union Station from Bakersfield, and then connect to the FlyAway shuttle, but that isn't an option.

Given the hassles, though, of getting around L.A. to LAX, FAT is becoming a much more viable alternative without having to worry about parking.


Why not buy the rail connect to the next stop and simply only use the bus tickets? Amtrak isn't that efficient that they'd know you hadn't used a ticket from Anaheim to Union Station. As to the shuttle between Amtrak Fresno and the Airport, YARTS (Fresno to Yosemite) does make stops at FAT after leaving Amtrak, but they don't handle local traffic - maybe they should as their buses are anything but full.
 
Wingtips56
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:25 pm

This of course is totally off-topic to Fresno Aviation, but Amtrak California sales are route restrictive for some reason (maybe a non-competitive agreement/obligation with Greyhound??).
For example, they have a rail/Thruway coach hub at Martinez, and one of the bus routes goes via Napa and Santa Rosa all the way to Arcata/ACV. But you can't buy a ticket from Napa north or between any other points along the route...they would force you to go to Martinez and then turn around and go back. So I assume this insanity includes the SJ Valley and Grapevine routes as well, so they might not be selling Fresno-Bakersfield point-to-point tickets.

I'm not sure the point of the discussion: is the poster suggesting linking FAT with Amtrak as a co-terminal for local Valley feed? I was surprised to look now and find that there are currently no flights between BFL and LAX, but going north from BFL to FAT in order to fly back south to LAX doesn't seem efficient even if there was local ground service. If, however to goal is not LAX (airport) but between Bakersfield and downtown L.A., then it's not really an aviation issue.
Worked for WestAir, Apollo Airways, Desert Pacific, Western, AirCal and American Airlines (Retired). Flight Memory: 180 airports, 90 airlines, 75 a/c types, 403 routes, 58 countries (by air), 6 continents. 1,117,006 passenger miles.

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FATFlyer
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Feb 03, 2019 1:53 am

Wingtips56 wrote:
This of course is totally off-topic to Fresno Aviation, but Amtrak California sales are route restrictive for some reason (maybe a non-competitive agreement/obligation with Greyhound??).
For example, they have a rail/Thruway coach hub at Martinez, and one of the bus routes goes via Napa and Santa Rosa all the way to Arcata/ACV. But you can't buy a ticket from Napa north or between any other points along the route...they would force you to go to Martinez and then turn around and go back. So I assume this insanity includes the SJ Valley and Grapevine routes as well, so they might not be selling Fresno-Bakersfield point-to-point tickets.

Amtrak cannot sell bus only tickets. It must include a portion of the trip on a train even if it is only a few miles. That is due to Greyhound lobbying years ago for protection of its bus routes since Amtrak bus service is subsidized by the state. They argued the subsidy would be unfair competition.

The California Legislature then passed a bill in 1999 adding Section 14035.55 to law. That section requires a train segment on a ticket sold by Amtrak that includes a bus.

Amtrak can sell a combo bus-train ticket that competes with a Greyhound route (or any other bus company). It just cannot sell only the bus portion.

There is an exception in the law. Amtrak can sell bus only tickets between Sacramento and South Lake Tahoe (or intermediate towns). Amtrak can also sell bus only tickets between Lebec and Santa Clarita, but the Lebec stop was dropped a few years ago.

Amtrak sells Fresno-Bakersfield tickets since it is all train service (no bus). But the station is in downtown Fresno, not near the airport.

Wingtips56 wrote:
I'm not sure the point of the discussion: is the poster suggesting linking FAT with Amtrak as a co-terminal for local Valley feed? I was surprised to look now and find that there are currently no flights between BFL and LAX, but going north from BFL to FAT in order to fly back south to LAX doesn't seem efficient even if there was local ground service. If, however to goal is not LAX (airport) but between Bakersfield and downtown L.A., then it's not really an aviation issue.

I believe the poster is talking about Bakersfield residents flying anywhere in the US or around the world, not TO Los Angeles. I think the thought is the limited service at BFL currently has people going to LAX for flights but FAT might be an easier alternative airport for them to use.

In other words, instead of a Bakersfield resident using ground transportation to LAX then a flight from there, it might be easier to use ground transportation Bakersfield to FAT then flights out of there to a flight destination such as out of state or out of country.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
Wingtips56
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Feb 03, 2019 3:36 am

Got it. Thanks for clarifying.

So yeah, FAT offers more connectivity than BFL, but it seems going that route isn't simple. At least with BFL-DFW service returning, along with the SFO and PHX flights, things will improve there.
Worked for WestAir, Apollo Airways, Desert Pacific, Western, AirCal and American Airlines (Retired). Flight Memory: 180 airports, 90 airlines, 75 a/c types, 403 routes, 58 countries (by air), 6 continents. 1,117,006 passenger miles.

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PDX757
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Feb 03, 2019 4:04 am

FATFlyer wrote:
PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
What is Fresno doing right, and will somebody please pass that information on to Bakersfield? Thanks!! ;)

whatusaid wrote:
Visalia MSA is another 460,000; add Kings and Madera for another 300,000. Fresno's catchment is closer to 2 million. The airport recently stated that greater than 50% of the traffic is from other than Fresno/Clovis. Merced is a coin flip, either Fresno or SMF/OAK, but I'd not count Merced out of the mix


I remembered some info from BFL's SCASD grant application.

BFL leakage is 62% of its catchment area to LAX according to a 2016 study.

But 7% of BFL's leakage is to Fresno, higher than the 4.5% of BFL's catchment area using BUR.

I'd be curious about the passengers choosing FAT but my guess is that many are on the FAT-GDL flights. BFL spent $8 million in 2006 to convert its old passenger terminal into a separate international terminal with its own security check, baggage claim, concessions, etc. But now that building sits empty except for the customs agents checking cargo and a few private flights.

At the bottom of this article though, there is a comment from someone in BFL's area who says they chose FAT due to the SEA flights.
http://www.bakersfield.com/columnists/robert-price/robert-price-meadows-field-vs-lax-not-really-but-local/article_d4da01dc-8918-11e8-a878-7b05c9504c80.html


Holy leakage Batman! I lived in BFL temporarily for a year until last summer, the air options were painful. BUR was an easy hour drive for a ns to PDX. FAT was another option, though a bit further. A traffic jam on I5 could easily make that a wash. I wonder what effect if any AA adding BFL-DFW will effect leakage. The ticket prices out of BFL were pretty steep as well, part of being a small market I guess.

Glad to see an extra frequency on PDX-FAT.
 
whatusaid
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Feb 03, 2019 3:30 pm

From last night's schedule load at AA, the 12:38 to PHX goes 319 starting in May. How long will it last is another matter, as the PHX schedule seems a work in progress. Right now, it's gone in June, but I'd wait a few weeks.
 
FATFlyer
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Feb 03, 2019 5:04 pm

whatusaid wrote:
From last night's schedule load at AA, the 12:38 to PHX goes 319 starting in May. How long will it last is another matter, as the PHX schedule seems a work in progress. Right now, it's gone in June, but I'd wait a few weeks.

Maybe that also explains the frequency reduction to LAX in today's OAG thread. Trying to route more seats thru PHX in May?
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Feb 03, 2019 6:58 pm

Airport Director Kevin Meikle gave a short 6 minute TV interview this morning about the expansion project. The video is at this link:
http://www.yourcentralvalley.com/news/fresno-airport-director-discusses-massive-expansion/1744642264

In the interview, he claims the international carriers want to add destinations which is why the FIS is a priority.

Also claims during the holidays that current parking was filled. If I understand his comments, the parking garage would open in 3 or 4 years but would only handle about 10 years of current growth.

He estimates 2019 will see 900,000 boardings. That seems low to me based on the first 11 months of 2018. Unless there is a recession or change by the airlines I think it will be higher.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
whatusaid
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Feb 03, 2019 7:16 pm

FATFlyer wrote:
Airport Director Kevin Meikle gave a short 6 minute TV interview this morning about the expansion project. The video is at this link:
http://www.yourcentralvalley.com/news/fresno-airport-director-discusses-massive-expansion/1744642264

In the interview, he claims the international carriers want to add destinations which is why the FIS is a priority.

Also claims during the holidays that current parking was filled. If I understand his comments, the parking garage would open in 3 or 4 years but would only handle about 10 years of current growth.

He estimates 2019 will see 900,000 boardings. That seems low to me based on the first 11 months of 2018. Unless there is a recession or change by the airlines I think it will be higher.


900,000 seems very conservative, but domestic capacity for 2019 isn't rising as much as it did last year. Allegiant added a couple more flights a week to LAS and AS is adding a second to PDX. Otherwise, UA and AA seem pretty much status quo in terms of seats even though the flights and capacity to a given destination are not status quo. AA is so month to month on schedules - who knows. All it would take to bust the 900,000 level on the domestic side would be another flight or two from Frontier, given their 321s run big numbers.

I'd heard from sources within the airport as well that Volaris and Aeromexico are looking to expand and the back-up for the red eyes is an issue that's holding all back. They're just not that pro daytime flights and that would raise FIS costs as well. The airlines are now limited as to what they can do to hold arrivals to one flight at a time, no matter the departure time.

So why is Kevin dropping Sun Country as a possible carrier in his interviews? I know the airport talks to WN and B6, but thought Sun Country wasn't on their add list. Hum....
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Feb 03, 2019 7:26 pm

Holy leakage Batman! I lived in BFL temporarily for a year until last summer, the air options were painful. BUR was an easy hour drive for a ns to PDX. FAT was another option, though a bit further. A traffic jam on I5 could easily make that a wash. I wonder what effect if any AA adding BFL-DFW will effect leakage. The ticket prices out of BFL were pretty steep as well, part of being a small market I guess.

Glad to see an extra frequency on PDX-FAT.


If you made it from Bakersfield to Burbank in an hour, you did it going warp speed. My personal best - which violated every speed limit in between - from Dodger Stadium to Panama Lane (my own personal point of being "in Bakersfield") stands at 90 minutes. I wasn't going faster than anyone else on the road, but that one marks one trip with no slow downs. Magic Mountain is always where I mark one hour from mom's house driving up from San Diego.

Growing up in Bakersfield, we were AA people, as that was Bakersfield's leading airline in the 80's and 90's. And given that our three-day treks via I-40 from Bakersfield to Fort Smith became 6-hour plane flights, we became quite loyal to AA and DFW. But times change, and the plug was pulled on BFL right when I moved to San Diego. Later still, some close family moved to the Fayetteville area, and since then XNA has been our preferred airport. Now mom no longer needs to double connect BFL-PHX-DFW-XNA nor trek to LAX to visit family, instead being able to fly BFL-DEN-XNA on UA.

However, if I lived in Bakersfield and did business in Oregon and Washington, I would certainly be getting my Amtrak points, taking the train to Fresno and flying out of FAT. As much as I cringe at how sad BFL's choices are, these routes would save significant time via Fresno versus the L.A. area.
 
maps4ltd
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Feb 03, 2019 8:27 pm

To FAT people;

Do you think AS could upgauge FAT-SEA to a 738? They've already had SBA at a 738, and AA runs 738s on FAT-DFW. I think it would make sense.

Is AS to SFO on E175s a possibility as well? Echo what they've done with PSP, perhaps?
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FATFlyer
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Feb 03, 2019 9:41 pm

whatusaid wrote:
So why is Kevin dropping Sun Country as a possible carrier in his interviews? I know the airport talks to WN and B6, but thought Sun Country wasn't on their add list. Hum....

Which side may have initiated contact? MSP-FAT-HNL anyone? :D
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FATFlyer
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Feb 03, 2019 9:43 pm

maps4ltd wrote:
To FAT people;

Do you think AS could upgauge FAT-SEA to a 738? They've already had SBA at a 738, and AA runs 738s on FAT-DFW. I think it would make sense.

Is AS to SFO on E175s a possibility as well? Echo what they've done with PSP, perhaps?

I would not be surprised to see FAT-SEA have one frequency upgauged at least seasonally.

But I don't see AS operating FAT-SFO. There have been rumors of AS flights for FAT-HNL.
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FATFlyer
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:21 am

An additional 5 minute TV interview with Airport Director Kevin Meikle about the expansion.
http://www.yourcentralvalley.com/news/central-valley-today/fresno-yosemite-international-airport-expansion-plans/1760704609
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
FATFlyer
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Feb 09, 2019 3:15 am

Passenger numbers for 2018 were announced today.

Per the press release, FAT handled over 1.7 million passengers in 2018.

That is a 14% increase over 2017.
http://flyfresno.com/fresno-yosemite-international-airport-sets-all-time-record-with-over-1-7-million-passengers-served/

The exact number was not in the press release so I can't compare it to my estimate of 1,750,000 from a few weeks ago.

The airport so far has not posted the December 2018 O&D report to see the exact number and the final breakdown percentage of domestic vs international.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
FATFlyer
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:59 am

FAT is seeking City Council approval on Thursday to apply for a loan to build the new $45.8 million parking garage.

The loan would be for $35 million at 3.15% from the California Infrastructure and Economic Development Bank (IBank). Airport staff estimates the interest rate would be over 1% lower compared to issuing airport revenue bonds, resulting in an $8.2 million total debt service payment savings over the life of the loan.

Remaining costs for the garage would be financed from airport funds.

Staff report:
http://fresno.legistar.com/ViewReport.ashx?M=R&N=Master&GID=392&ID=3852986&GUID=0A961A73-C0CA-45E8-BE88-E12BCC4167EE&Extra=WithText&Title=Legislation+Details+(With+Text)
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Feb 14, 2019 3:05 am

Nice little mention by NBCNews tonight about FAT.

Passengers at Fresno Yosemite International Airport in California will receive sweet treats throughout Valentine’s Day and be serenaded by master violinist Patrick Contreras.
http://www.nbcnews.com/business/travel/smooches-pooches-free-chocolates-traveling-valentine-s-day-pretty-sweet-n970246


I like Fresno native Patrick Contreras' music, he has a great rocking style on the violin. Too bad I can't get to the airport Thursday to listen. I will just have to settle for his version of Led Zepplin's Kashmir on the violin.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQDjXCZHlKc
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
FATFlyer
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Feb 14, 2019 3:11 am

Fresno City Director of Communications and Public Affairs Mark Standriff was interviewed today about the airport expansion project.
http://kmph.com/great-day/know-the-no/know-the-no-21319-airport-expansion-plan

The most interesting comment was at about the 1:10 mark on the video.

At that point he starts talking about flights and mentions that we will be getting the addition of FAT to BJX flights in his words "sometime here soon".

I wonder what he considers "soon".
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
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FA9295
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Feb 14, 2019 4:32 am

FATFlyer wrote:
At that point he starts talking about flights and mentions that we will be getting the addition of FAT to BJX flights in his words "sometime here soon".

I wonder what he considers "soon".

Sounds like the perfect kind of route for Volaris.

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