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FATFlyer
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 06, 2019 6:27 pm

FAT's modular customs building definitely needs to be replaced. The number of flights has outgrown capacity in the FIS.

But the building is probably better than what SJC travelers endured for many years during the AA hub days. SJC's old FIS was small and cramped. It was also remote from the terminal which required busing arriving passengers to the terminal. Parking AA's MD-11s from Tokyo required closing the taxiway in front of the FIS during disembarking due to the aircraft size.

Likewise it was probably a good choice to build the current smaller FIS while watching to see if international service would grow or not. BFL spent about $8 million total remodeling its old terminal building into an international arrivals building and also building a customs facility (Fresno spent $1.6 million for its FIS connected to the existing terminal). Mexicana only operated from BFL's FIS for one year and the building has not seen a commercial international flight since 2008. Much of BFL's $8 million should have been spent elsewhere.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
flyfresno
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 06, 2019 6:46 pm

dfwjim1 wrote:
Is UA to IAH a possibility down the road? AA has done well with service to DFW so perhaps more service to Texas from FAT would work...


I think it could happen if ORD continues to be successful. Honestly, I’m not sure if UA would add a second ORD flight or a first IAH flight first. Perhaps IAH if they can (ironically) convince Chevron and other oil companies in Bakersfield to use it.
 
flyfresno
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 06, 2019 6:50 pm

FATFlyer wrote:
FAT's modular customs building definitely needs to be replaced. The number of flights has outgrown capacity in the FIS.

But the building is probably better than what SJC travelers endured for many years during the AA hub days. SJC's old FIS was small and cramped. It was also remote from the terminal which required busing arriving passengers to the terminal. Parking AA's MD-11s from Tokyo required closing the taxiway in front of the FIS during disembarking due to the aircraft size.

Likewise it was probably a good choice to build the current smaller FIS while watching to see if international service would grow or not. BFL spent about $8 million total remodeling its old terminal building into an international arrivals building and also building a customs facility (Fresno spent $1.6 million for its FIS connected to the existing terminal). Mexicana only operated from BFL's FIS for one year and the building has not seen a commercial international flight since 2008. Much of BFL's $8 million should have been spent elsewhere.


I don’t think anyone blames them for building it during the Mexicana days, nor for not building something new right away even when two airlines announced a return of GDL service within weeks of each other. It was probably even prudent. However, it took more than *EIGHT YEARS* of steady int’l growth for anyone to say “hmmm, maybe we should expand the customs facility.” That’s way too long.
 
flyfresno
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jun 17, 2019 3:59 pm

United has been regularly upguaging Chicago from A319s to A320s and 737-700s to 737-800s. They are full or nearly full most nights. Service seems to be doing really well. Could we see a second ORD or an IAH flight next summer as a result? Anyone have numbers for European connections out of FAT? A logical option next summer in addition to the current schedule would be either a mid day turn (10am from ORD, 2pm from FAT), or ORD-FAT-DEN mid day (again, 10am from ORD and 2pm from FAT) and a terminator from DEN that turns to ORD in the AM, better serving European connections.
 
Tan Flyr
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jun 17, 2019 6:07 pm

flyfresno wrote:
United has been regularly upguaging Chicago from A319s to A320s and 737-700s to 737-800s. They are full or nearly full most nights. Service seems to be doing really well. Could we see a second ORD or an IAH flight next summer as a result? Anyone have numbers for European connections out of FAT? A logical option next summer in addition to the current schedule would be either a mid day turn (10am from ORD, 2pm from FAT), or ORD-FAT-DEN mid day (again, 10am from ORD and 2pm from FAT) and a terminator from DEN that turns to ORD in the AM, better serving European connections.


Time and time again it seems that when you actually put a mainline type aircraft on a route, sales increase. From the start of the E jet to ORD to changing gauge of aircraft to meet varying daily needs, UA seems to have decided to show it's moxie at returning to and staying in the FAT- ORD market after 30+ years. Very good news..this is just one more step that stops leakage to another airport in the Bay area or LA.

Now, here is a perfect opportunity for AA to get in and solidify its' market share at FAT. A 319 to ORD! even if a very early (6AM departure) was needed due to gate availability at ORD, it would also work for later in the day European departures as well as Midwest / some NE connections not served via DFW.

Additionally, one could make the case that Dl still should consider at least one daily R/T from either MSP or DTW..the same business case applies.
 
flyfresno
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jun 17, 2019 6:33 pm

Tan Flyr wrote:
Now, here is a perfect opportunity for AA to get in and solidify its' market share at FAT. A 319 to ORD! even if a very early (6AM departure) was needed due to gate availability at ORD, it would also work for later in the day European departures as well as Midwest / some NE connections not served via DFW.

Additionally, one could make the case that Dl still should consider at least one daily R/T from either MSP or DTW..the same business case applies.


It seems like AA is not as keen to grow ORD as UA is. If you look at SMF, AA barely has one flight per day to ORD, vs UA, which has 2-3 per day. If you look at AA in ORD, they have not added the capacity to the West Coast that UA has...they have focused on DFW instead. I'm not so sure that AA would choose ORD over CLT (a city they are growing that does not really have capacity issues) as a new destination from FAT, although I don't think FAT should hold its breath for CLT either (at least not before PHX goes all or mostly mainline).

As for DL, I would change your cities to MSP or ATL. Look at where DL has added new service from other CA airports (OAK, BUR, ONT)...it's ATL. While MSP has much stronger O&D from FAT and could be operated on an E175 (and therefore has a strong case over ATL), DTW seems very, extremely unlikely. DL has grown from DTW to the West Coast, for sure, but to cities they have already established out of MSP and ATL.
 
FATFlyer
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jun 17, 2019 7:59 pm

I was looking at some FAT passenger numbers over the weekend. That was prompted by hearing airport staff say last week that FAT-GDL is now the 4th largest US to GDL market.

In Fiscal Year 2008-09, FAT O&D saw its only decline due to the recession. Passenger numbers fell by about 11.5% to 1,128,695,

O&D projection for this year is over 2 million. That is over 75% growth in 10 years. That should be getting noticed by airlines at least as a potential market to add new routes/frequency/seats.

AA - I would need to double check but I believe Fresno is the largest US metropolitan area that AA does not serve from ORD. Even if just for competitive reasons they may need to consider the route.

DL - I also believe Fresno is the largest US metropolitan area with no nonstop flights to either ATL or MSP.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
whatusaid
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 18, 2019 2:17 am

flyfresno wrote:
United has been regularly upguaging Chicago from A319s to A320s and 737-700s to 737-800s. They are full or nearly full most nights. Service seems to be doing really well. Could we see a second ORD or an IAH flight next summer as a result? Anyone have numbers for European connections out of FAT? A logical option next summer in addition to the current schedule would be either a mid day turn (10am from ORD, 2pm from FAT), or ORD-FAT-DEN mid day (again, 10am from ORD and 2pm from FAT) and a terminator from DEN that turns to ORD in the AM, better serving European connections.


I've done three RT's on ORD this year to date. Last week, I was on a 738 that had about 150 pax. No flight has been less than about 115 pax. The question is whether the yield is there? I can't see how a second ORD flight wouldn't work. FAT has always been heavy to the East Coast and the ability to connect at ORD, even with it's delays, is pretty attractive. DEN is over-rated for travel to the East Coast.

That 11p to 1am time frame is getting to be pretty intense between the red-eye to ORD, another to DFW, and all of the Mexico flights, which will only become more intense as AM adds their 10 pm to GDL on top of their 11:30. I will say, TSA is doing a great job. But, the airport is over capacity at that time of day.

When UA adds the 320 to DEN this fall, I doubt it will do as well as ORD. ORD is an example of what could be if ATL or MSP come on-line. There's still of ton of untapped demand. Seems that FAT will fill anything that's offered these days.
 
bd777
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:43 am

whatusaid wrote:
flyfresno wrote:
United has been regularly upguaging Chicago from A319s to A320s and 737-700s to 737-800s. They are full or nearly full most nights. Service seems to be doing really well. Could we see a second ORD or an IAH flight next summer as a result? Anyone have numbers for European connections out of FAT? A logical option next summer in addition to the current schedule would be either a mid day turn (10am from ORD, 2pm from FAT), or ORD-FAT-DEN mid day (again, 10am from ORD and 2pm from FAT) and a terminator from DEN that turns to ORD in the AM, better serving European connections.


I've done three RT's on ORD this year to date. Last week, I was on a 738 that had about 150 pax. No flight has been less than about 115 pax. The question is whether the yield is there? I can't see how a second ORD flight wouldn't work. FAT has always been heavy to the East Coast and the ability to connect at ORD, even with it's delays, is pretty attractive. DEN is over-rated for travel to the East Coast.

That 11p to 1am time frame is getting to be pretty intense between the red-eye to ORD, another to DFW, and all of the Mexico flights, which will only become more intense as AM adds their 10 pm to GDL on top of their 11:30. I will say, TSA is doing a great job. But, the airport is over capacity at that time of day.

When UA adds the 320 to DEN this fall, I doubt it will do as well as ORD. ORD is an example of what could be if ATL or MSP come on-line. There's still of ton of untapped demand. Seems that FAT will fill anything that's offered these days.


This could not be more true. I'm amazed at how many people fill the lobby and terminal area during the post 10pm rush. The TSA line stretches to the ticket counters. And as it's been mentioned before, the 3-5 daily Mexico flights are consistently very full. I really hope DL takes notice and offers MSP or ATL (perfect capacity and range for the A220). I also see a large potential for LCC's, with Frontier and Allegiant doing seemingly well with DEN and LAS. Can we see NK or SY in the future possibly?
 
FATFlyer
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 18, 2019 5:18 am

During the Council budget hearing last week, the airport director was saying that if he had his current information when he created the budget proposal a few months ago that he would have budgeted even higher growth. Basically hinting something may be in discussion with at least one airline.

I really liked this picture the airport posted of the late night flights waiting to depart.
http://pbs.twimg.com/media/D8ZlDI1UwAEfFF1.jpg
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
whatusaid
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 18, 2019 5:32 am

FATFlyer wrote:
During the Council budget hearing last week, the airport director was saying that if he had his current information when he created the budget proposal a few months ago that he would have budgeted even higher growth. Basically hinting something may be in discussion with at least one airline.

I really liked this picture the airport posted of the late night flights waiting to depart.
http://pbs.twimg.com/media/D8ZlDI1UwAEfFF1.jpg


It’s a great picture. Not so great if you’re trying to navigate the crowds. Pretty amazing that late night is the big rush.

F9 tonight extended DEN - going to Monday/Friday. Remains a 7:40p departure with virtually no connections unless you overnight.
 
WN732
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 18, 2019 6:50 am

whatusaid wrote:
FATFlyer wrote:
During the Council budget hearing last week, the airport director was saying that if he had his current information when he created the budget proposal a few months ago that he would have budgeted even higher growth. Basically hinting something may be in discussion with at least one airline.

I really liked this picture the airport posted of the late night flights waiting to depart.
http://pbs.twimg.com/media/D8ZlDI1UwAEfFF1.jpg


It’s a great picture. Not so great if you’re trying to navigate the crowds. Pretty amazing that late night is the big rush.

F9 tonight extended DEN - going to Monday/Friday. Remains a 7:40p departure with virtually no connections unless you overnight.


Man I wish F9 would really change that. At least one of the flights. Are there really that many folks going to Denver?
 
FATFlyer
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 18, 2019 4:19 pm

whatusaid wrote:
It’s a great picture. Not so great if you’re trying to navigate the crowds. Pretty amazing that late night is the big rush.

F9 tonight extended DEN - going to Monday/Friday. Remains a 7:40p departure with virtually no connections unless you overnight.


F9 is throwing in Wednesday nights for the 2 weeks around Thanksgiving and the 2 weeks at Christmas/New Years. I wonder what price and LF they will get for Christmas night on Wed Dec 25.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
flyfresno
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 18, 2019 6:12 pm

whatusaid wrote:
flyfresno wrote:
United has been regularly upguaging Chicago from A319s to A320s and 737-700s to 737-800s. They are full or nearly full most nights. Service seems to be doing really well. Could we see a second ORD or an IAH flight next summer as a result? Anyone have numbers for European connections out of FAT? A logical option next summer in addition to the current schedule would be either a mid day turn (10am from ORD, 2pm from FAT), or ORD-FAT-DEN mid day (again, 10am from ORD and 2pm from FAT) and a terminator from DEN that turns to ORD in the AM, better serving European connections.


I've done three RT's on ORD this year to date. Last week, I was on a 738 that had about 150 pax. No flight has been less than about 115 pax. The question is whether the yield is there? I can't see how a second ORD flight wouldn't work. FAT has always been heavy to the East Coast and the ability to connect at ORD, even with it's delays, is pretty attractive. DEN is over-rated for travel to the East Coast.

That 11p to 1am time frame is getting to be pretty intense between the red-eye to ORD, another to DFW, and all of the Mexico flights, which will only become more intense as AM adds their 10 pm to GDL on top of their 11:30. I will say, TSA is doing a great job. But, the airport is over capacity at that time of day.

When UA adds the 320 to DEN this fall, I doubt it will do as well as ORD. ORD is an example of what could be if ATL or MSP come on-line. There's still of ton of untapped demand. Seems that FAT will fill anything that's offered these days.


The flight to ORD is already way oversold tonight, even after upguaging to -800. We might even see some 737-900s on the route a few nights this summer if this continues. I liken DEN to mainline on AA to PHX...I think it will do ok. UA has really upped their Europe game in DEN, and that flight will connect to a lot of their transatlantic flights (at least going).

I am a bit worried by F9 dropping one night, but they were 2X last winter too, right?
 
flyfresno
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Jun 23, 2019 2:18 pm

FATFlyer wrote:
AA - I would need to double check but I believe Fresno is the largest US metropolitan area that AA does not serve from ORD. Even if just for competitive reasons they may need to consider the route.


According to the OAG thread, AA is cutting RNO and BOI to ORD, and reducing PDX to ORD. That doesn’t bode well for AA picking this route up.
 
FATFlyer
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Jun 23, 2019 2:45 pm

flyfresno wrote:
FATFlyer wrote:
AA - I would need to double check but I believe Fresno is the largest US metropolitan area that AA does not serve from ORD. Even if just for competitive reasons they may need to consider the route.


According to the OAG thread, AA is cutting RNO and BOI to ORD, and reducing PDX to ORD. That doesn’t bode well for AA picking this route up.


As I just posted on the OAG thread, last year those were cut then returned so my guess is a seasonal cut. We will know for sure in 2020 if they return.

But last year, in the June 17, 2018 OAG thread they were cut. But those routes returned this year. The 2018 thread is at the link.
https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1396827
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
flyfresno
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 27, 2019 11:52 pm

Just noticed this: DL will have 4 flights from FAT-SLC and back next Wednesday (July 3). It’s only one day, and there will be a drop the following couple of days for the holiday, but I believe that this will be the first time in a number of years that there’s been more than 3 scheduled Delta flights from FAT to SLC.
 
whatusaid
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jun 28, 2019 6:06 am

flyfresno wrote:
Just noticed this: DL will have 4 flights from FAT-SLC and back next Wednesday (July 3). It’s only one day, and there will be a drop the following couple of days for the holiday, but I believe that this will be the first time in a number of years that there’s been more than 3 scheduled Delta flights from FAT to SLC.


I’ve noted that 10:30a departure around holidays before - usually replaces the 12:30. DL remains non-competitive in this market, even with the move to all 175’s this fall. Are any other markets seeing a one day add from DL on the West Coast?

Didn’t AA start their red eye to DFW as a holiday add? Maybe it’s time DL go down the same path?
 
flyfresno
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jul 05, 2019 9:23 pm

whatusaid wrote:
flyfresno wrote:
Just noticed this: DL will have 4 flights from FAT-SLC and back next Wednesday (July 3). It’s only one day, and there will be a drop the following couple of days for the holiday, but I believe that this will be the first time in a number of years that there’s been more than 3 scheduled Delta flights from FAT to SLC.


I’ve noted that 10:30a departure around holidays before - usually replaces the 12:30. DL remains non-competitive in this market, even with the move to all 175’s this fall. Are any other markets seeing a one day add from DL on the West Coast?

Didn’t AA start their red eye to DFW as a holiday add? Maybe it’s time DL go down the same path?


1) Yes, there were quite a few “seasonal” adds all over the country on the 3rd.
2) Yep, the redeye began a couple years ago as 3 flights per week just around the 4th of July, then was re-added around the winter holidays, then came back at a higher frequency and longer the following summer. Now it’s up to around 5 months per year in total when you count the extra flights around the winter holidays. There were even a couple days last winter with 4X to DFW.
 
sprxUSA
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Jul 06, 2019 2:14 am

Off topic. But I love how a post from two or so hours ago still shows as "moments ago".
Anyway, Why has FAT not just built new SE of current terminal then demolish current set-up?
Gem State Airlines..."we have a gem of an airline"
 
flyfresno
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Jul 06, 2019 5:18 am

sprxUSA wrote:
Off topic. But I love how a post from two or so hours ago still shows as "moments ago".
Anyway, Why has FAT not just built new SE of current terminal then demolish current set-up?


Because the mayor, part of the city council, and most of airport management is extremely fiscally conservative. They are scared to death of building even one more gate than they might need, especially if there’s a reduction of flights in the future. A whole new terminal is out of the question, even considering how old most of the current facility is. The idea that having too few gates (especially int’l gates) could be costing the airport flights (and revenue) seems beyond them.
 
flyfresno
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:08 pm

The airport website has posted the RFQ for the parking garage. The final design calls for 900 spaces over 3 levels. The garage will be located out next to Clinton Avenue (I thought it was initially slated to be built where the short-term parking currently is, but perhaps that was just a placeholder in the master plan). They already have the parking area next to it marked for future garage space. There will be a skybridge from the top two floors of the lot over the main long-term parking entrance/exit roadway (not the main terminal roadway), and then an elevator and stairs down to the existing walkway through the short-term lot to the terminal. It appears that some sort of canopy will be added to that existing walkway as well (nice when it's raining). All the top floor spaces will be covered with solar panels, which will help with blocking the sun (but probably not the rain). They put a proposed date of May 2021 for completion. Looks like a good design, although it would have been nice if they had incorporated a skybridge all the way to the terminal.
 
flyfresno
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Aug 03, 2019 2:36 pm

Delta has added a 4th daily (X6) flight to SLC beginning in May. This will represent an almost 100% increase over the last two years, from one CRJ-700s and 2 CRJs to 4 E175s per day.
 
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Frontier14
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Aug 09, 2019 12:20 am

Frontier announced today the November start of daily service between RDU-ATL and RDU-MIA.

Frontier 14
 
FATFlyer
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Aug 09, 2019 4:21 am

Frontier14 wrote:
Frontier announced today the November start of daily service between RDU-ATL and RDU-MIA.

Frontier 14

Interesting but I'm not sure why you posted RDU flights on a thread about Fresno (FAT).
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
WN732
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Aug 09, 2019 4:48 am

FATFlyer wrote:
Frontier14 wrote:
Frontier announced today the November start of daily service between RDU-ATL and RDU-MIA.

Frontier 14

Interesting but I'm not sure why you posted RDU flights on a thread about Fresno (FAT).


I wish they would clean up the horrible times that they fly in. It must do them well as they are using A321 from time to time, but connections are horribly timed.
 
flyfresno
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Aug 10, 2019 5:48 pm

WN732 wrote:
FATFlyer wrote:
Frontier14 wrote:
Frontier announced today the November start of daily service between RDU-ATL and RDU-MIA.

Frontier 14

Interesting but I'm not sure why you posted RDU flights on a thread about Fresno (FAT).


I wish they would clean up the horrible times that they fly in. It must do them well as they are using A321 from time to time, but connections are horribly timed.


They could do what they do with other west coast cities like PDX and SMF and have it be a “redeye.”
 
WN732
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Aug 10, 2019 6:37 pm

flyfresno wrote:
WN732 wrote:
FATFlyer wrote:
Interesting but I'm not sure why you posted RDU flights on a thread about Fresno (FAT).


I wish they would clean up the horrible times that they fly in. It must do them well as they are using A321 from time to time, but connections are horribly timed.


They could do what they do with other west coast cities like PDX and SMF and have it be a “redeye.”


Yes that is a great idea.
 
whatusaid
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Aug 10, 2019 7:20 pm

flyfresno wrote:
WN732 wrote:
FATFlyer wrote:
Interesting but I'm not sure why you posted RDU flights on a thread about Fresno (FAT).


I wish they would clean up the horrible times that they fly in. It must do them well as they are using A321 from time to time, but connections are horribly timed.


They could do what they do with other west coast cities like PDX and SMF and have it be a “redeye.”


Apparently, the idea of spending a night on the floor at DEN for a 6a connection appeals to those who're filling the 321s...
 
flyfresno
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:31 pm

whatusaid wrote:
flyfresno wrote:
WN732 wrote:

I wish they would clean up the horrible times that they fly in. It must do them well as they are using A321 from time to time, but connections are horribly timed.


They could do what they do with other west coast cities like PDX and SMF and have it be a “redeye.”


Apparently, the idea of spending a night on the floor at DEN for a 6a connection appeals to those who're filling the 321s...


Yeah, the wait times are all over the place. If you want to go to Chicago, you have to wait until mid day on most days in Jan and Feb. The one-way fare on F9 is about $80 cheaper than the (basic) non-stop fare on UA on most days, which is probably the most apples-to-apples comparison, and $110 cheaper than a UA economy fare with a carry on. However, unless you want to spend 11+ hours in the airport, the flight on F9 is probably a wash once you add in a hotel room. For MCO, there's a one-hour connection to a red-eye, but that assumes your flight from FAT-DEN will be on-time. Also, the fare on UA is about the same many days with a carry-on included (haven't checked any other airlines). Same with AUS: UA is about the same fare as F9, but without a long overnight connection. It would *appear*, at lest from my limited research, that a) at least UA is pricing flights competitively with F9, and b) F9 only has only a limited selection of better fares outside of their non-stop to DEN, which is WAY cheaper.
 
flyfresno
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Aug 25, 2019 6:48 pm

From the weekly thread:

AS FAT-SEA JAN 2>3[2]

AS just keeps growing. How close are we to mainline service in FAT? Will it be SAN or SEA?
 
FATFlyer
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Aug 25, 2019 10:16 pm

flyfresno wrote:
From the weekly thread:
AS FAT-SEA JAN 2>3[2]
AS just keeps growing. How close are we to mainline service in FAT? Will it be SAN or SEA?


I could see either.

I could see FAT-SEA get a seasonal mainline frequency for summer cruise season. But I could also see a mainline FAT-SAN-HNL routing as a way to test the market for a FAT-Hawaii nonstop.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
flyfresno
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Aug 25, 2019 11:34 pm

FATFlyer wrote:
flyfresno wrote:
From the weekly thread:
AS FAT-SEA JAN 2>3[2]
AS just keeps growing. How close are we to mainline service in FAT? Will it be SAN or SEA?


I could see either.

I could see FAT-SEA get a seasonal mainline frequency for summer cruise season. But I could also see a mainline FAT-SAN-HNL routing as a way to test the market for a FAT-Hawaii nonstop.


The latter would also be good if AS decides that they want more capacity on SAN-HNL but don’t quite have the demand to fill 2 737s. I would imagine their second frequency would be a 6pm-ish departure from SAN with a redeye back. That wouldn’t necessarily work with FAT very well (the plane would have to sit in FAT for most of the day or go back to SAN or on to SEA), but if they move their current afternoon HNL-SAN flight back 2 hours so it arrives in SAN around 9:45pm, that would work with the aircraft RONing in FAT.
 
whatusaid
Posts: 599
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:07 am

flyfresno wrote:
From the weekly thread:

AS FAT-SEA JAN 2>3[2]

AS just keeps growing. How close are we to mainline service in FAT? Will it be SAN or SEA?


The AS January schedule is not favorable to FAT-SAN. 9:45 is the earliest flight out followed by an 11:40. So much for a full day of business in SAN. I've heard more complaints on those flight from same day travlers that the schedule hasn't been optimized in many months for business travel.

A couple other notes from the United website -

ORD remains a 319 in January. The mid-day to DEN is on a 319 as well.

Not sure if anyone noticed, but Y4 had pulled the new BJX for about a month, but that was retuned to their booking site in the last week as well. Have they DOT OK?

FAT continues to set new records every month. What's next guys? Sun Country? Until the MAX issue is resolved, WN won't be showing up.
 
flyfresno
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Aug 27, 2019 4:13 pm

whatusaid wrote:
flyfresno wrote:
From the weekly thread:

AS FAT-SEA JAN 2>3[2]

AS just keeps growing. How close are we to mainline service in FAT? Will it be SAN or SEA?


The AS January schedule is not favorable to FAT-SAN. 9:45 is the earliest flight out followed by an 11:40. So much for a full day of business in SAN. I've heard more complaints on those flight from same day travlers that the schedule hasn't been optimized in many months for business travel.

A couple other notes from the United website -

ORD remains a 319 in January. The mid-day to DEN is on a 319 as well.

Not sure if anyone noticed, but Y4 had pulled the new BJX for about a month, but that was retuned to their booking site in the last week as well. Have they DOT OK?

FAT continues to set new records every month. What's next guys? Sun Country? Until the MAX issue is resolved, WN won't be showing up.


Interesting about SAN. The PDX schedule was sort of weird for a while too (the two flights were only a couple hours apart, and both mid-day), but they have gotten better. I'll have to take a look at the new schedules, but I am guessing it's an a/c utilization issue.

Glad to see DEN is staying with the 319, I looked about a month ago and the service was only showing through November. Also, glad about almost year-round mainline to ORD. Maybe we will see a second, mid-day flight or IAH next summer?

I could see Sun Country doing FAT-LAS-MSP 4X per week like they do the non-stop out of SMF. I'm not sure if we are quite ready for a non-stop; it would have to offer a lot of connections.

Thanks for the post!
 
FATFlyer
Topic Author
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Aug 27, 2019 8:23 pm

whatusaid wrote:
Not sure if anyone noticed, but Y4 had pulled the new BJX for about a month, but that was retuned to their booking site in the last week as well. Have they DOT OK?


I have not seen a filing for Y4's FAT-BJX yet at the DOT. But I have not looked to see if they have filed for Mexico's approval yet.

flyfresno wrote:
The PDX schedule was sort of weird for a while too (the two flights were only a couple hours apart, and both mid-day), but they have gotten better.


I did a FAT-PDX-FAT roundtrip last month. 98% LF both directions. Part of that included pax flying SAN-PDX and PDX-SAN with a Fresno stop.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
flyfresno
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Aug 28, 2019 2:49 pm

whatusaid wrote:
[The AS January schedule is not favorable to FAT-SAN. 9:45 is the earliest flight out followed by an 11:40.


Yeah, this makes no sense. As far as I can tell, this will be a RON. So, unless OO said they only want to overnight a limited number of crews and/or want to keep the same crew as the terminator on it, or OO MX is requesting more time for the plane, why would they do this? Definitely gets rid of even more connections in SAN, in addition to making a day trip more inconvenient.
 
whatusaid
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Sep 01, 2019 8:01 am

AA’s schedule upgrade tonight shows a second FAT-PHX going mainline for the holidays. Add 9:50 to the A319 lineup. DL 175’s replace the 700’s this coming week. Airport seems to be heavy to 175s and Airbus these days.
 
FATFlyer
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Sep 01, 2019 6:39 pm

whatusaid wrote:
AA’s schedule upgrade tonight shows a second FAT-PHX going mainline for the holidays. Add 9:50 to the A319 lineup. DL 175’s replace the 700’s this coming week. Airport seems to be heavy to 175s and Airbus these days.

AA needs to clean up the fares on those mainline flights. Some days in December those 2 mainline flights are double the fare of the other frequencies.

UA still has a lot of CR2s operating at Fresno. They need to decide if they want to start upgauging.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
FATFlyer
Topic Author
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Sep 01, 2019 6:40 pm

The airport has not been posting statistics for 2019. So I took a look at the DOT info.

16% increase. That is domestic passenger enplanements growth in the first 5 months of this year vs 2018.

2019 Month by Month domestic eplanements only
January: 2019 - 56,403.......2018 - 48,558
February: 2019 - 53,431.......2018 - 45,297
March: 2019 - 62,064.......2018 - 55,097
April: 2019 - 69,184.......2018 - 57,914
May: 2019 - 73,436.......2018 - 65,578

January to May 2019 domestic enplanements - 314,518
January to May 2018 domestic enplanements - 271,724


International numbers at the DOT lag by a few months. Enplanements available currently:

2019 Month by Month international enplanements only
January: 2019 - 10,174.......2018 - 10,496
February: 2019 - 8,143.......2018 - 6,835
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
whatusaid
Posts: 599
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2007 1:11 pm

Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Sep 02, 2019 5:21 am

AA is adding at 4:30p to DFW on December 4....4X a day for December, according to their website. Add the upgrade to PHX and they’re bringing a new level of aggressiveness to this market we’ve not seen from any domestic carrier.
 
flyfresno
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Sep 02, 2019 6:07 pm

Anybody heard talk about whether FAT is getting a catering company (such as LSG) as a result of all this growth? Currently, I believe the vast majority of the first class and buy on board meals are “round tripped,” meaning they aren’t the freshest. I also believe the morning DFW is just a continental in First. Seems like the number of mainline fights are growing close to the point where it would make sense to have one.
 
whatusaid
Posts: 599
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2007 1:11 pm

Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:57 pm

FATFlyer wrote:
The airport has not been posting statistics for 2019. So I took a look at the DOT info.

International numbers at the DOT lag by a few months. Enplanements available currently:

2019 Month by Month international enplanements only
January: 2019 - 10,174.......2018 - 10,496
February: 2019 - 8,143.......2018 - 6,835


From Mexico's avaiation stats (SASE):

ORIGEN / FROM DESTINO / TO Ene/Jan Feb/Feb Mar/Mar Abr/Apr May/May Jun/Jun Jul/Jul Total
FRESNO GUADALAJARA 9,239 7,212 7,664 8,612 9,204 10,756 12,073 64,760
FRESNO MORELIA 937 939 928 1,275 1,466 2,132 1,663 9,340
 
FATFlyer
Topic Author
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Sep 03, 2019 12:37 am

whatusaid wrote:
FATFlyer wrote:
The airport has not been posting statistics for 2019. So I took a look at the DOT info.

International numbers at the DOT lag by a few months. Enplanements available currently:

2019 Month by Month international enplanements only
January: 2019 - 10,174.......2018 - 10,496
February: 2019 - 8,143.......2018 - 6,835


From Mexico's avaiation stats (SASE):

ORIGEN / FROM DESTINO / TO Ene/Jan Feb/Feb Mar/Mar Abr/Apr May/May Jun/Jun Jul/Jul Total
FRESNO GUADALAJARA 9,239 7,212 7,664 8,612 9,204 10,756 12,073 64,760
FRESNO MORELIA 937 939 928 1,275 1,466 2,132 1,663 9,340


The total Jan thru July 2019 for the 2 routes is 74,100.
The Jan thru July 2018 total was 65,352 per the DOT.

About a 13% increase in international passengers so far this year.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
FATFlyer
Topic Author
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Sep 03, 2019 12:59 am

I just went back and projected this year's enplanements assuming the current rate continues. The airport is on track for 1.9 to 2.0 million O&D passengers in 2019.

Even if growth slows to 10% per year in 2020 and 2021, FAT will be following the high growth forecast from the new master plan. That forecast would have FAT reaching the master plan's Passenger Activity Level 2 of 1.24 million enplanements in 2021 (the high growth forecast projected year) rather than in 2036 per the baseline forecast that was the adopted expansion plan.

The airport master plan calls for 3 new boarding bridges at PAL 2. I hope airport staff are rethinking the FATForward plan of only building 2 new bridges now and waiting to add the third bridge later. That 3rd bridge may be needed in just a few more years.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
flyfresno
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Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 6:18 am

Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Sep 03, 2019 11:12 am

FATFlyer wrote:
The airport master plan calls for 3 new boarding bridges at PAL 2. I hope airport staff are rethinking the FATForward plan of only building 2 new bridges now and waiting to add the third bridge later. That 3rd bridge may be needed in just a few more years.


I hope so too, but I said earlier, it appears they would rather severely inconvenience airlines and passengers by building the bare minimum to get by and potentially give up new airlines and routes, rather than build one more gate that *could possibly* go unused should a recession hit and airlines pull back service.
 
QXatFAT
Posts: 2336
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 3:51 pm

Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 04, 2019 6:26 am

flyfresno wrote:
Anybody heard talk about whether FAT is getting a catering company (such as LSG) as a result of all this growth? Currently, I believe the vast majority of the first class and buy on board meals are “round tripped,” meaning they aren’t the freshest. I also believe the morning DFW is just a continental in First. Seems like the number of mainline fights are growing close to the point where it would make sense to have one.


Correct, first is just continental breakfast. At least that is what I had on my flight a few weeks ago.

As for the upgauge for AA to a second A319, it is very welcomed! I wake up super early to fly trough PHX coming back home so I make it on that A319. Perfect time at 10AM departure. To be honest, the mainline aircraft is what keeps me loyal to AA. Otherwise, I would be on DL 100%.

Ever sense I got a promotion at my company and they have allowed me to stay at the local office instead of relocating to MSP, traffic has increased to FAT for visitation. I get visitors here to FAT once a day coming either from MSP or other cities. They love the convince of being close to my office and the small airport feel. But our company is begging for a non-stop FAT-MSP flight. Our company also has a rebate program/discounts with DL so they really push the DL travel as much as possible.

Next flights:
Sep 8 AA FAT-DFW-VPS
Sep 15 AA VPS-DFW-XNA
Sep 22 AA OKC-PHX-FAT

QXatFAT
Don't Tread On Me!
 
flyfresno
Posts: 1074
Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 6:18 am

Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 04, 2019 3:17 pm

QXatFAT wrote:
flyfresno wrote:
Anybody heard talk about whether FAT is getting a catering company (such as LSG) as a result of all this growth? Currently, I believe the vast majority of the first class and buy on board meals are “round tripped,” meaning they aren’t the freshest. I also believe the morning DFW is just a continental in First. Seems like the number of mainline fights are growing close to the point where it would make sense to have one.


Correct, first is just continental breakfast. At least that is what I had on my flight a few weeks ago.

As for the upgauge for AA to a second A319, it is very welcomed! I wake up super early to fly trough PHX coming back home so I make it on that A319. Perfect time at 10AM departure. To be honest, the mainline aircraft is what keeps me loyal to AA. Otherwise, I would be on DL 100%.

Ever sense I got a promotion at my company and they have allowed me to stay at the local office instead of relocating to MSP, traffic has increased to FAT for visitation. I get visitors here to FAT once a day coming either from MSP or other cities. They love the convince of being close to my office and the small airport feel. But our company is begging for a non-stop FAT-MSP flight. Our company also has a rebate program/discounts with DL so they really push the DL travel as much as possible.

Next flights:
Sep 8 AA FAT-DFW-VPS
Sep 15 AA VPS-DFW-XNA
Sep 22 AA OKC-PHX-FAT

QXatFAT


Does the move to all E175s to SLC this week help out your sentiment at all? It's definitely a HUGE upgrade over the CRJ-200s that were on two of the flights just a year ago.

It appears that DL is focusing the A220s in SLC, NYC, and SEA for now. Should MSP ever see a steady increase of them (which is possible given the large number DL is getting), I supposed they could eventually choose to deploy it to FAT. I feel like a redeye would be the best option, as it would allow for the best a/c utilization and provide a brand-new departure time from FAT (any daytime flight would split traffic with a SLC flight). Maybe not the most ideal for people just going to MSP, but definitely would be nice to have another airline providing East Coast connections that arrive out there before 10am. (Although there are a few redeyes out of SLC that the last flight connects to...would be nice to get LGA and earlier DCA one-stops, among others).

I am always amazed by the amount of connection between FAT and MSP. Obviously, there's the huge Hmong community in both, but there's a lot beyond that too. I would think Sun Country is looking at the route as well.
 
FATFlyer
Topic Author
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 05, 2019 4:39 am

FAT is publicizing the start of Fresno to León flights. Volaris is scheduled to start FAT-BJX on October 29.
http://flyfresno.com/volaris-expands-list-of-international-destinations-between-fresno-y-and-mexico/
http://www.fresnobee.com/news/local/article234721012.html

The 3:35am departure from Fresno moves the airport closer to a 24 hour schedule since the next departure from FAT is only a couple of hours later.

I still do not see a DOT filing for the route though.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
flyfresno
Posts: 1074
Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 6:18 am

Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 05, 2019 6:39 am

FATFlyer wrote:
FAT is publicizing the start of Fresno to León flights. Volaris is scheduled to start FAT-BJX on October 29.
http://flyfresno.com/volaris-expands-list-of-international-destinations-between-fresno-y-and-mexico/
http://www.fresnobee.com/news/local/article234721012.html

The 3:35am departure from Fresno moves the airport closer to a 24 hour schedule since the next departure from FAT is only a couple of hours later.

I still do not see a DOT filing for the route though.


Only took them (just shy of) 6 months from the date it first appeared in schedules to finally start publicizing it...

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