caranubis
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Re: LOT Polish international growth

Sun Jan 20, 2019 12:33 am

georgiabill wrote:
I wonder if LO is questioning their decision to join Star with having large LH hubs to compete with? That being said would LO benefit other alliances or benefit themselves, or seek to form alliances on their own. Not sure if AY would want LO in Oneworld or SU in Skyteam so perhaps forming their own alliances would offer LO longer term benefits. B6 or DL to connect with at JFK to start with. If they partner with DL it would offer an opportunity to connect with DL at DTW if they were to fly there.

Lot needs LH, so it can send people off to their flights when its overbooking.
I was flying with LOT twice, both times they said "sorry the flight is full". They sent me to Swiss, result - 5 hours delay.
The other overbooked flight, LOT's plane got problems and it got replaced it with a bigger one, so I was able to take it. This time delay was only 4 hours. They still refused to pay the compensation.
 
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WROORD
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Re: LOT Polish international growth

Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:29 pm

filipair wrote:
I can't figure out why so much hate. LOT has publicly stated that longhaul flying generates the majority of the profit for the airline. Launching East Asia flights in the last 4 years has been a huge success. See NRT starting 3 weekly in 2016, seeing steady upgauges, and going daily this summer. See ICN almost immediately getting upgauged from 3 to 5 weekly (would be daily but Korea doesn't want to increase the bilateral). PEK no slots for now and SIN is less than a year old. DEL is exciting. And that brings me to North America where LOT has been very strong for a long time (thank you earlier posters). LAX has been a success, largely in the second year of operations with improved load factors over 2017 (without dropping prices)- and it goes daily this summer. YUL, IAD and SFO are next.

Honestly I think it's just difficult for people to get used to the fact that Poland is rapidly growing in wealth and prosperity. LOT longhaul successes are but another indicator of that


I hear you. I can't figure out why anything LO does is immediately labeled a fiasco. I mean the airline has still a long road to establish itself as a major player and deliver a consistent service, but I give them credit for trying.
 
L410Turbolet
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Re: LOT Polish international growth

Mon Jan 21, 2019 3:31 am

MalevTU134 wrote:
But that's fine, don't listen to me, I only have almost a decade of TATL route planning and evaluation at a major US airline, working daily on a professional, no-armchair-CEO, level with assessing, evaluating, planning and supervising the performance of TATL routes. I know how difficult it is to make routes "work", especially to Eastern Europe.

And? Major US airlines and US companies in general have been quite unsuccessful in their C&EE ventures as opposed to, say, Koreans or Japanese despite coming from a totally different socio-cultural background. Maybe people like you are part of the problem?
 
DGVT
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Re: LOT Polish international growth

Mon Jan 21, 2019 4:06 am

A lot of interesting points brought up.
IMO it will be interesting to see what happens with the routes and aircraft when the next downturn arrives. While Poland has made huge progress economically I wonder if it is possible to sustain such a network and fleet.
 
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Miami
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Re: LOT Polish international growth

Mon Jan 21, 2019 4:14 am

SRQLOT wrote:
FLL to connect with B6 to the Caribbean

LOL. FLL? You do realize MIA is just south of them, right?
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
 
Blerg
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Re: LOT Polish international growth

Mon Jan 21, 2019 6:02 am

What is the current capacity of the WAW terminal?
 
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eta unknown
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Re: LOT Polish international growth

Mon Jan 21, 2019 8:36 am

A few key points to remember about LOT's intercontinental growth:
a) LO isn't part of the LH/UA JV, so expansion is necessary (probably much to LH's chagrin) unless LO wants to be reduced to an LH feeder carrier.
b) LO's costs are very low.
c) the 787 fleet are cheap top operate and high density configured so this works in their favour for the shorter North American and Asian routes- heck WAW-PEK is under 8 hours.
In current economic conditions things seem to be good for LO. However, there are some troubling economic indicators floating about so as some have said, whether all these routes (SIN?) are sustainable is another matter.
 
SRQLOT
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Re: LOT Polish international growth

Mon Jan 21, 2019 8:41 am

Blerg wrote:
What is the current capacity of the WAW terminal?



It’s 20 million a year. Now like with other airports it probably will handle more then that before reaching critical mass. Also WAW is now working on increasing that with projects starting now or soon.
LO LH CL BA AZ WN UA DL AA B6 NK
WAW KRK FRA LGW FCO ORD MDW LAS DFW ATL RDU BNA BHM BOS DTW FLL MCO RSW TPA SRQ
717 737-300/700/800/900/MAX8 747-400 757-200/300 767-300 787-8 319 320 321 330-300 MD-90 BAE146 CRJ900 Q400 E195 Piper Archer Cessna 152
 
SRQLOT
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Re: LOT Polish international growth

Mon Jan 21, 2019 8:42 am

Miami wrote:
SRQLOT wrote:
FLL to connect with B6 to the Caribbean

LOL. FLL? You do realize MIA is just south of them, right?



Hah yes of course. It was a bit of a joke. But hey They fly to 2 airports in New York, Kiev and London so why not Miami lol
LO LH CL BA AZ WN UA DL AA B6 NK
WAW KRK FRA LGW FCO ORD MDW LAS DFW ATL RDU BNA BHM BOS DTW FLL MCO RSW TPA SRQ
717 737-300/700/800/900/MAX8 747-400 757-200/300 767-300 787-8 319 320 321 330-300 MD-90 BAE146 CRJ900 Q400 E195 Piper Archer Cessna 152
 
Blerg
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Re: LOT Polish international growth

Mon Jan 21, 2019 8:46 am

SRQLOT wrote:
Blerg wrote:
What is the current capacity of the WAW terminal?



It’s 20 million a year. Now like with other airports it probably will handle more then that before reaching critical mass. Also WAW is now working on increasing that with projects starting now or soon.


What kind of projects? Are you referring to extra parking positions they are adding?
 
Danny
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Re: LOT Polish international growth

Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:14 am

MalevTU134 wrote:
They will lose tons of money on this. Mark my words.


Fully agree. This is a state owned airline and the growth is politically not economically driven. When the downturn comes they will collapse (or get another government bailout like many times before).
 
SRQLOT
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Re: LOT Polish international growth

Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:09 am

Blerg wrote:
SRQLOT wrote:
Blerg wrote:
What is the current capacity of the WAW terminal?



It’s 20 million a year. Now like with other airports it probably will handle more then that before reaching critical mass. Also WAW is now working on increasing that with projects starting now or soon.


What kind of projects? Are you referring to extra parking positions they are adding?


Yes and there are other small projects. I’m not exactly sure as to all of them. I forgot which article it was in. But they are adding bus gates and waiting areas at level 1 of the airport and there is talk of doing or changing things on level 3 to increase passenger capacity. Something about changing the schengen and non-schengen areas. Adding more stands where the military was located. So there is a bit that’s going to happen. Of course the need to stretch the terminal will have to happen at one point.
Is there anyone else that knows more about WAW updates?
LO LH CL BA AZ WN UA DL AA B6 NK
WAW KRK FRA LGW FCO ORD MDW LAS DFW ATL RDU BNA BHM BOS DTW FLL MCO RSW TPA SRQ
717 737-300/700/800/900/MAX8 747-400 757-200/300 767-300 787-8 319 320 321 330-300 MD-90 BAE146 CRJ900 Q400 E195 Piper Archer Cessna 152
 
SRQLOT
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Re: LOT Polish international growth

Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:17 pm

Some interesting facts in this article about WAW and LOT. Out of 17.75 million passengers in WAW in 2018, 5 million were transfers so about 28%. 39 routes had more transfer passengers then p2p.

In polish. Includes numbers for top cities, airlines, destinations, etc.
https://www.rynek-lotniczy.pl/mobile/ch ... -5229.html
LO LH CL BA AZ WN UA DL AA B6 NK
WAW KRK FRA LGW FCO ORD MDW LAS DFW ATL RDU BNA BHM BOS DTW FLL MCO RSW TPA SRQ
717 737-300/700/800/900/MAX8 747-400 757-200/300 767-300 787-8 319 320 321 330-300 MD-90 BAE146 CRJ900 Q400 E195 Piper Archer Cessna 152
 
edealinfo
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Re: LOT Polish international growth

Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:14 pm

LOT is foolish enough to fly to New Delhi (DEL) without offering a convenient short connection on the India - USA routes in BOTH directions (they only do so in one direction). India - USA via Poland route will comprise the bulk of their traffic from DEL and they offer a terribly long connection in one direction. They need to set themselves up for success; not a failure right out of the door. Was it an issue of not getting good slots at DEL or are they just a bit dim witted?
 
SRQLOT
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Re: LOT Polish international growth

Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:43 pm

edealinfo wrote:
LOT is foolish enough to fly to New Delhi (DEL) without offering a convenient short connection on the India - USA routes in BOTH directions (they only do so in one direction). India - USA via Poland route will comprise the bulk of their traffic from DEL and they offer a terribly long connection in one direction. They need to set themselves up for success; not a failure right out of the door. Was it an issue of not getting good slots at DEL or are they just a bit dim witted?


Maybe that will be an option in the future, but for right now it seems they aimed at making good connections to all of their destinations in Europe.

"The effective schedule of 5 weekly flights connects the home town airports of Star Alliance member air carriers: LOT Polish Airlines and Air India. The new route launch features excellent connectivity via Warsaw, starting from 40 minutes i.e. to/from London City Airport, Paris, Brussels, Kraków, Geneva, Amsterdam, Stuttgart, Nuremberg, Hanover, Oslo, Duesseldorf, Hamburg, Berlin, Billund, Prague and Budapest."

http://aviationtribune.com/airlines/eur ... new-delhi/
LO LH CL BA AZ WN UA DL AA B6 NK
WAW KRK FRA LGW FCO ORD MDW LAS DFW ATL RDU BNA BHM BOS DTW FLL MCO RSW TPA SRQ
717 737-300/700/800/900/MAX8 747-400 757-200/300 767-300 787-8 319 320 321 330-300 MD-90 BAE146 CRJ900 Q400 E195 Piper Archer Cessna 152
 
filipair
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Re: LOT Polish international growth

Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:51 pm

edealinfo wrote:
LOT is foolish enough to fly to New Delhi (DEL) without offering a convenient short connection on the India - USA routes in BOTH directions (they only do so in one direction). India - USA via Poland route will comprise the bulk of their traffic from DEL and they offer a terribly long connection in one direction. They need to set themselves up for success; not a failure right out of the door. Was it an issue of not getting good slots at DEL or are they just a bit dim witted?


Ha, I call bs on this. US-India yields on connecting traffic are totally trash thanks to ME3. LOT is going to focus on providing high quality connections within the region and Europe as a whole. There is plenty traffic here and growing.

If the flight were to leave at 4pm after US arrivals, it would land 2:30am in Delhi. That's the worst. So as perk... Instead of in and out of India in the middle of the night, LOT has developed a schedule for actual humans traveling Europe-subcontinent. Sayonara to witching hour arrival and departure times! Looking forward to taking this quick and comfortable flight via WAW.

Oh, and making it US-connection friendly both ways would inevitably sacrifice utilization, and make the connection long for European flights in at least one direction. Not worth it.
 
lhrsfosyd
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Re: LOT Polish international growth

Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:08 pm

filipair wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
LOT is foolish enough to fly to New Delhi (DEL) without offering a convenient short connection on the India - USA routes in BOTH directions (they only do so in one direction). India - USA via Poland route will comprise the bulk of their traffic from DEL and they offer a terribly long connection in one direction. They need to set themselves up for success; not a failure right out of the door. Was it an issue of not getting good slots at DEL or are they just a bit dim witted?


Ha, I call bs on this. US-India yields on connecting traffic are totally trash thanks to ME3. LOT is going to focus on providing high quality connections within the region and Europe as a whole. There is plenty traffic here and growing.

If the flight were to leave at 4pm after US arrivals, it would land 2:30am in Delhi. That's the worst. So as perk... Instead of in and out of India in the middle of the night, LOT has developed a schedule for actual humans traveling Europe-subcontinent. Sayonara to witching hour arrival and departure times! Looking forward to taking this quick and comfortable flight via WAW.

Oh, and making it US-connection friendly both ways would inevitably sacrifice utilization, and make the connection long for European flights in at least one direction. Not worth it.


No need to pull wool over anyone's eyes, Europe to Delhi is just as trashy. Not quite sure what high quality connections are but there's about a million carriers offering short, cheap and conviently timed connections between Europe and India.
 
edealinfo
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Re: LOT Polish international growth

Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:20 pm

>>>If the flight were to leave at 4pm after US arrivals, it would land 2:30am in Delhi.

Most (> 90%) foreign flights from Europe arrive and depart from India in the middle of the night. It has been the case for ages and will do so for the conceivable future. Why do you think this is the case? Answer: To facilitate connections primarily to the USA. The major European carriers flying to India are Lufthansa, Air France, KLM, British Airways, and Swiss. Do you think LOT is going to show all those carriers that they got it dead wrong?
 
konkret
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Re: LOT Polish international growth

Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:22 pm

Are there any talks between LO and AI regarding codeshare? Would AI put LO’s code on its flights beyond DEL?
 
edealinfo
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Re: LOT Polish international growth

Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:31 pm

>>>>Would AI put LO’s code on its flights beyond DEL?
Most probably yes but note that AI, being a Government run airline, doesn't exactly have a sterling reputation. Heck, even Lufthansa, and United prefer to put their passengers on other airlines within India than AI!
 
konkret
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Re: LOT Polish international growth

Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:31 pm

edealinfo wrote:
>>>If the flight were to leave at 4pm after US arrivals, it would land 2:30am in Delhi.

Most (> 90%) foreign flights from Europe arrive and depart from India in the middle of the night. It has been the case for ages and will do so for the conceivable future. Why do you think this is the case? Answer: To facilitate connections primarily to the USA. The major European carriers flying to India are Lufthansa, Air France, KLM, British Airways, and Swiss. Do you think LOT is going to show all those carriers that they got it dead wrong?


They didn’t get it wrong - it works for them.
It seems to be a smart move by LO to differentiate its offer and have the advantage of a schedule convenient for passengers between Europe and India, instead of going head to head against the major players you mentioned.
 
SRQLOT
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Re: LOT Polish international growth

Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:33 pm

konkret wrote:
Are there any talks between LO and AI regarding codeshare? Would AI put LO’s code on its flights beyond DEL?


Probably like with other Asian destinations, they will get something worked out after starting the route.
LO LH CL BA AZ WN UA DL AA B6 NK
WAW KRK FRA LGW FCO ORD MDW LAS DFW ATL RDU BNA BHM BOS DTW FLL MCO RSW TPA SRQ
717 737-300/700/800/900/MAX8 747-400 757-200/300 767-300 787-8 319 320 321 330-300 MD-90 BAE146 CRJ900 Q400 E195 Piper Archer Cessna 152
 
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kngkyle
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Re: LOT Polish international growth

Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:34 pm

I'm becoming increasingly impressed with LOs operations out of ORD. 11x weekly to WAW, 3x weekly to KRK, and 2x weekly to BUD is quite the operation for such a distant outpost for an airline of LOs size. Could we see them expand on this even further at ORD with KTW (currently served via YYZ) or RZE (currently served via EWR)?
 
SRQLOT
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Re: LOT Polish international growth

Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:38 pm

konkret wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
>>>If the flight were to leave at 4pm after US arrivals, it would land 2:30am in Delhi.

Most (> 90%) foreign flights from Europe arrive and depart from India in the middle of the night. It has been the case for ages and will do so for the conceivable future. Why do you think this is the case? Answer: To facilitate connections primarily to the USA. The major European carriers flying to India are Lufthansa, Air France, KLM, British Airways, and Swiss. Do you think LOT is going to show all those carriers that they got it dead wrong?


They didn’t get it wrong - it works for them.
It seems to be a smart move by LO to differentiate its offer and have the advantage of a schedule convenient for passengers between Europe and India, instead of going head to head against the major players you mentioned.



After Singapore, India is the second most important business area for polish businesses. So if businessmen can get there during the day and not in the middle of the night/ leave in middle of the night, wouldn't that help LOT in also getting important business fliers from other European cities? Of course I understand that Emirates and Qatar has plenty of that covered.
LO LH CL BA AZ WN UA DL AA B6 NK
WAW KRK FRA LGW FCO ORD MDW LAS DFW ATL RDU BNA BHM BOS DTW FLL MCO RSW TPA SRQ
717 737-300/700/800/900/MAX8 747-400 757-200/300 767-300 787-8 319 320 321 330-300 MD-90 BAE146 CRJ900 Q400 E195 Piper Archer Cessna 152
 
SRQLOT
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Re: LOT Polish international growth

Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:45 pm

I heard that LOT was going to add 2 more 737-8 Max to its fleet (6+6+2), and now just read in airways mag about all this India deal that LOT will receive 9 aircraft this year totaling 14 737-8 Max.
LO LH CL BA AZ WN UA DL AA B6 NK
WAW KRK FRA LGW FCO ORD MDW LAS DFW ATL RDU BNA BHM BOS DTW FLL MCO RSW TPA SRQ
717 737-300/700/800/900/MAX8 747-400 757-200/300 767-300 787-8 319 320 321 330-300 MD-90 BAE146 CRJ900 Q400 E195 Piper Archer Cessna 152
 
edealinfo
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Re: LOT Polish international growth

Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:50 pm

>>>>>It seems to be a smart move by LO to differentiate its offer and have the advantage of a schedule convenient for passengers between Europe and India, instead of going head to head against the major players you mentioned

Fair enough argument and I do hope it works for them. Almost no-one in India likes the dead-of-the-night flights but suck up to it anyway, because, it is taken for granted, that when it comes to choices, Indian passengers are on the receiving end of connecting schedules that are commercially feasible for the airline!
 
konkret
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Re: LOT Polish international growth

Tue Jan 22, 2019 12:15 am

kngkyle wrote:
KTW (currently served via YYZ)


What do you mean by KTW served via YYZ?

Btw. It won’t happen - KRK airport is 40 miles away from Katowice.
 
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kngkyle
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Re: LOT Polish international growth

Tue Jan 22, 2019 12:30 am

konkret wrote:
kngkyle wrote:
KTW (currently served via YYZ)


What do you mean by KTW served via YYZ?

Btw. It won’t happen - KRK airport is 40 miles away from Katowice.


I mean LO currently flies KTW to YYZ and RZE to EWR.

Edit - hmm, can't actually find the KTW-YYZ flight bookable anywhere. Shows on their route map though. RZE is indeed bookable.
 
konkret
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Re: LOT Polish international growth

Tue Jan 22, 2019 12:34 am

kngkyle wrote:
konkret wrote:
kngkyle wrote:
KTW (currently served via YYZ)


What do you mean by KTW served via YYZ?

Btw. It won’t happen - KRK airport is 40 miles away from Katowice.


I mean LO currently flies KTW to YYZ and RZE to EWR.


Where did you get the information regarding the KTW-YYZ flight? What is the flight number?
 
nomorerjs
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Re: LOT Polish international growth

Tue Jan 22, 2019 3:29 am

kngkyle wrote:
I'm becoming increasingly impressed with LOs operations out of ORD. 11x weekly to WAW, 3x weekly to KRK, and 2x weekly to BUD is quite the operation for such a distant outpost for an airline of LOs size. Could we see them expand on this even further at ORD with KTW (currently served via YYZ) or RZE (currently served via EWR)?


ORD-KRK additions are coming at the expense of ORD-WAW. LO could do 14x WAW ORD and than a mix of ORD-KRK/KTW/RZE/BUD for an additional 7+ weekly at ORD.

The Polish community on the NW side and NW suburbs is quite large and travels back and forth (probably at low fares, so toilet yields, but packed flights).

Off topic, but I’m curious to see loads and yield on AAs ORD-ATH flight this summer. I’m sure AA will pack this, but will it be as successful as ORD-BCN/VCE?
 
Blerg
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Re: LOT Polish international growth

Tue Jan 22, 2019 5:40 am

lhrsfosyd wrote:
filipair wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
LOT is foolish enough to fly to New Delhi (DEL) without offering a convenient short connection on the India - USA routes in BOTH directions (they only do so in one direction). India - USA via Poland route will comprise the bulk of their traffic from DEL and they offer a terribly long connection in one direction. They need to set themselves up for success; not a failure right out of the door. Was it an issue of not getting good slots at DEL or are they just a bit dim witted?


Ha, I call bs on this. US-India yields on connecting traffic are totally trash thanks to ME3. LOT is going to focus on providing high quality connections within the region and Europe as a whole. There is plenty traffic here and growing.

If the flight were to leave at 4pm after US arrivals, it would land 2:30am in Delhi. That's the worst. So as perk... Instead of in and out of India in the middle of the night, LOT has developed a schedule for actual humans traveling Europe-subcontinent. Sayonara to witching hour arrival and departure times! Looking forward to taking this quick and comfortable flight via WAW.

Oh, and making it US-connection friendly both ways would inevitably sacrifice utilization, and make the connection long for European flights in at least one direction. Not worth it.


No need to pull wool over anyone's eyes, Europe to Delhi is just as trashy. Not quite sure what high quality connections are but there's about a million carriers offering short, cheap and conviently timed connections between Europe and India.



The only difference being that costs are lower when it comes to India-Europe so it's easier to soften the blow until LO positions itself on the Indian market. They can always add more flights to DEL so as to enable swift US connections both ways.
 
thesaladdays
Posts: 29
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2016 4:31 pm

Re: LOT Polish international growth

Tue Jan 22, 2019 12:01 pm

kngkyle wrote:
konkret wrote:
kngkyle wrote:
KTW (currently served via YYZ)


What do you mean by KTW served via YYZ?

Btw. It won’t happen - KRK airport is 40 miles away from Katowice.


I mean LO currently flies KTW to YYZ and RZE to EWR.

Edit - hmm, can't actually find the KTW-YYZ flight bookable anywhere. Shows on their route map though. RZE is indeed bookable.


That's an error on the route map, and it only shows if you choose direct flights from YYZ. If you choose direct flights from KTW then it's not there. KTW has never had TATL flights as far as I'm aware.
 
desmoLCY
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Re: LOT Polish international growth

Tue Jan 22, 2019 12:10 pm

thesaladdays wrote:
kngkyle wrote:
konkret wrote:

What do you mean by KTW served via YYZ?

Btw. It won’t happen - KRK airport is 40 miles away from Katowice.


I mean LO currently flies KTW to YYZ and RZE to EWR.

Edit - hmm, can't actually find the KTW-YYZ flight bookable anywhere. Shows on their route map though. RZE is indeed bookable.


That's an error on the route map, and it only shows if you choose direct flights from YYZ. If you choose direct flights from KTW then it's not there. KTW has never had TATL flights as far as I'm aware.

KTW used to have a LOT Cargo flight to YHM operated by Cargojet between 2009 and 2012.
 
thesaladdays
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Re: LOT Polish international growth

Tue Jan 22, 2019 12:35 pm

desmoLCY wrote:
thesaladdays wrote:
kngkyle wrote:

I mean LO currently flies KTW to YYZ and RZE to EWR.

Edit - hmm, can't actually find the KTW-YYZ flight bookable anywhere. Shows on their route map though. RZE is indeed bookable.


That's an error on the route map, and it only shows if you choose direct flights from YYZ. If you choose direct flights from KTW then it's not there. KTW has never had TATL flights as far as I'm aware.

KTW used to have a LOT Cargo flight to YHM operated by Cargojet between 2009 and 2012.


True, there was that cargo connection, forgot about that. No pax flights though.
 
thesaladdays
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Re: LOT Polish international growth

Tue Jan 22, 2019 1:33 pm

SRQLOT wrote:
Blerg wrote:
SRQLOT wrote:


It’s 20 million a year. Now like with other airports it probably will handle more then that before reaching critical mass. Also WAW is now working on increasing that with projects starting now or soon.


What kind of projects? Are you referring to extra parking positions they are adding?


Yes and there are other small projects. I’m not exactly sure as to all of them. I forgot which article it was in. But they are adding bus gates and waiting areas at level 1 of the airport and there is talk of doing or changing things on level 3 to increase passenger capacity. Something about changing the schengen and non-schengen areas. Adding more stands where the military was located. So there is a bit that’s going to happen. Of course the need to stretch the terminal will have to happen at one point.
Is there anyone else that knows more about WAW updates?


The Ministry of Defence has also handed over 8.5 thousand square metres of land to allow the non-Schengen part of the terminal to be expanded with positions allowing, for example, 8 737s or 3 787 (or a combination of these or similar aircraft).
(In Polish)
http://next.gazeta.pl/next/7,151003,24300205,jest-porozumienie-z-mon-lotnisko-chopina-bedzie-moglo-rozbudowac.html#a=90&c=145&s=BoxBizMT

Also adding more remote stands, rearranging some things on the ground and two new taxiways.
(In Polish)
https://www.rynek-lotniczy.pl/wiadomosci/ppl-zwiekszy-przepustowosc-lotniska-chopina-zapowiedz-przetargu-4681.html
 
Milka
Posts: 162
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Re: LOT Polish international growth

Tue Jan 22, 2019 2:24 pm

holcakker wrote:
Milka wrote:
Are you just butthurt that Poland and LOT are doing great nowadays, and that Malev can only be found on wikipedia or what lol?

You noticed that there is a certain Hungarian airline which has ~25 aircraft based in Poland while LOT can hardly maintain its 1 aircraft "base" in Budapest, right? I quess it's not him who could be jealous (at all, if he wanted to be so childish like you).


Apples and oranges, would you compare Ryanair with Lufthansa? Also LOT is a hub carrier with 70 +/- aircraft based at its main base, whilst Wizzair is a multi-hub P2P carrier. LOT is also effectively Hungary's Long Haul airline and soon starts the business heavy route of BUD-LCY, so effectively LOT is becoming Hungary's defacto national carrier over time. Whilst Wizzair is Poland's main low cost carrier along with Ryanair.
 
lhrsfosyd
Posts: 209
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2016 4:57 pm

Re: LOT Polish international growth

Tue Jan 22, 2019 3:16 pm

Milka wrote:
holcakker wrote:
Milka wrote:
Are you just butthurt that Poland and LOT are doing great nowadays, and that Malev can only be found on wikipedia or what lol?

You noticed that there is a certain Hungarian airline which has ~25 aircraft based in Poland while LOT can hardly maintain its 1 aircraft "base" in Budapest, right? I quess it's not him who could be jealous (at all, if he wanted to be so childish like you).


Apples and oranges, would you compare Ryanair with Lufthansa? Also LOT is a hub carrier with 70 +/- aircraft based at its main base, wfhilst Wizzair is a multi-hub P2P carrier. LOT is also effectively Hungary's Long Haul airline and soon starts the business heavy route of BUD-LCY, so effectively LOT is becoming Hungary's defacto national carrier over time. Whilst Wizzair is Poland's main low cost carrier along with Ryanair.


Except BUD is not a financial centre, it's just another vanity route subsidised by Hungarian taxpayers. Regardless of your dreams, wizzair is the national carrier of Hungary, registered in Hungary linking Budapest with numerous cities that lack EU open skies agreement (Moscow, St Petersburg, Baku), flights that are possible because of this recognition. LOT is also not Hungary long haul airline either. Both QR and EK have more frequencies to BUD and offer more long haul capacity than LO. An airline does not need to have both short and long haul fleets to become a national carrier.
 
Milka
Posts: 162
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 7:45 pm

Re: LOT Polish international growth

Tue Jan 22, 2019 3:33 pm

lhrsfosyd wrote:
Milka wrote:

Except BUD is not a financial centre, it's just another vanity route subsidised by Hungarian taxpayers. Regardless of your dreams, wizzair is the national carrier of Hungary, registered in Hungary linking Budapest with numerous cities that lack EU open skies agreement (Moscow, St Petersburg, Baku), flights that are possible because of this recognition. LOT is also not Hungary long haul airline either. Both QR and EK have more frequencies to BUD and offer more long haul capacity than LO. An airline does not need to have both short and long haul fleets to become a national carrier.


Yes of course, LOT will always remain a mid sized airline, it will never be like Lufthansa or Qatar. However, it can be the go to long haul carrier BUD-US, take over some business routes from BUD and find a niche for itself to be more like Finnair or TAP. Also more can be done in the Baltic states and eastern European countries. Moreover, air passenger traffic will continue to grow in both Poland, Hungary and the rest of the world, so there will always be an opportunity for LOT to expand. There are many obstacles and good management is going to be needed in the coming years to accomplish all that, they need to sort out the crew strike issues and get the 787s sorted whilst getting rid of all the wet-leased aircraft.
 
Blerg
Posts: 2337
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: LOT Polish international growth

Tue Jan 22, 2019 5:11 pm

lhrsfosyd wrote:
Milka wrote:
holcakker wrote:
You noticed that there is a certain Hungarian airline which has ~25 aircraft based in Poland while LOT can hardly maintain its 1 aircraft "base" in Budapest, right? I quess it's not him who could be jealous (at all, if he wanted to be so childish like you).


Apples and oranges, would you compare Ryanair with Lufthansa? Also LOT is a hub carrier with 70 +/- aircraft based at its main base, wfhilst Wizzair is a multi-hub P2P carrier. LOT is also effectively Hungary's Long Haul airline and soon starts the business heavy route of BUD-LCY, so effectively LOT is becoming Hungary's defacto national carrier over time. Whilst Wizzair is Poland's main low cost carrier along with Ryanair.


Except BUD is not a financial centre, it's just another vanity route subsidised by Hungarian taxpayers. Regardless of your dreams, wizzair is the national carrier of Hungary, registered in Hungary linking Budapest with numerous cities that lack EU open skies agreement (Moscow, St Petersburg, Baku), flights that are possible because of this recognition. LOT is also not Hungary long haul airline either. Both QR and EK have more frequencies to BUD and offer more long haul capacity than LO. An airline does not need to have both short and long haul fleets to become a national carrier.


So what? Wizz Air entered the Serbian market when they got preferential treatment from the airport... that's even worse than LO in BUD. They were subsidized by other airlines flying there while linking Belgrade with random villages in the middle of nowhere. At least Budapest gets long-haul flying from subsidizing LO.
 
lhrsfosyd
Posts: 209
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2016 4:57 pm

Re: LOT Polish international growth

Tue Jan 22, 2019 5:24 pm

Blerg wrote:
lhrsfosyd wrote:
Milka wrote:

Apples and oranges, would you compare Ryanair with Lufthansa? Also LOT is a hub carrier with 70 +/- aircraft based at its main base, wfhilst Wizzair is a multi-hub P2P carrier. LOT is also effectively Hungary's Long Haul airline and soon starts the business heavy route of BUD-LCY, so effectively LOT is becoming Hungary's defacto national carrier over time. Whilst Wizzair is Poland's main low cost carrier along with Ryanair.


Except BUD is not a financial centre, it's just another vanity route subsidised by Hungarian taxpayers. Regardless of your dreams, wizzair is the national carrier of Hungary, registered in Hungary linking Budapest with numerous cities that lack EU open skies agreement (Moscow, St Petersburg, Baku), flights that are possible because of this recognition. LOT is also not Hungary long haul airline either. Both QR and EK have more frequencies to BUD and offer more long haul capacity than LO. An airline does not need to have both short and long haul fleets to become a national carrier.


So what? Wizz Air entered the Serbian market when they got preferential treatment from the airport... that's even worse than LO in BUD. They were subsidized by other airlines flying there while linking Belgrade with random villages in the middle of nowhere. At least Budapest gets long-haul flying from subsidizing LO.


You're not displaying a very high degree of intelligence by replying 'so what?' to a point I have made. You have mentioned another example of unfair subsidies by state owned body which does not make Hungarian situation look any better. The world would be better place if private companies were subsidising baseless ideas instead of taxpayers. Do you mind sharing what villages wizzair manages to fly into?
 
rbavfan
Posts: 3230
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:53 am

Re: LOT Polish international growth

Tue Jan 22, 2019 6:15 pm

RainerBoeing777 wrote:
LOT polish by the end of 2019 its fleet will be composed of 15 Boeing 787 Dreamliners eight of version -8 and seven of version -10, counting with international destinations from its main hub WAW to JFK, EWR, ORD, YYZ, LAX, ICN , NRT, PEK, SIN in addition to having new destinations such as MIA and DEL, on the other hand has its hub in BUD which has destinations to JFK and ORD

Potentially order more Boeing 787 which will be your next potential destinations, part of expansion strategy are Star Alliance hubs.

Proposed destinations would be: IAD, PVG, BKK, SFO , JNB and YUL

It would also be nice to add the Boeing 787-10 Dreamliner in its fleet which is optimal for its high demand missions in New York (JFK and EWR), Chicago (ORD) and Toronto (YYZ).


The 787-10 could be optimal if they get enough connection traffic to fill it. Warsaw is not well placed for a transfer hub operation. Continuing to Asia Finnair is better suited on the circle routes. It's to far east to be effective transfer point to Africa to fill the 787-10 from the US.
 
Blerg
Posts: 2337
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: LOT Polish international growth

Tue Jan 22, 2019 6:22 pm

lhrsfosyd wrote:
Blerg wrote:
lhrsfosyd wrote:

Except BUD is not a financial centre, it's just another vanity route subsidised by Hungarian taxpayers. Regardless of your dreams, wizzair is the national carrier of Hungary, registered in Hungary linking Budapest with numerous cities that lack EU open skies agreement (Moscow, St Petersburg, Baku), flights that are possible because of this recognition. LOT is also not Hungary long haul airline either. Both QR and EK have more frequencies to BUD and offer more long haul capacity than LO. An airline does not need to have both short and long haul fleets to become a national carrier.


So what? Wizz Air entered the Serbian market when they got preferential treatment from the airport... that's even worse than LO in BUD. They were subsidized by other airlines flying there while linking Belgrade with random villages in the middle of nowhere. At least Budapest gets long-haul flying from subsidizing LO.


You're not displaying a very high degree of intelligence by replying 'so what?' to a point I have made. You have mentioned another example of unfair subsidies by state owned body which does not make Hungarian situation look any better. The world would be better place if private companies were subsidising baseless ideas instead of taxpayers. Do you mind sharing what villages wizzair manages to fly into?


My point is that these subsidies happen all around, you made it seems as if the situation in Budapest was somehow special. There is nothing wrong with giving out subsidies if the route has long-term potential and if eventually it can become a profitable business.
I seriously don't understand what's your problem? You are going from one forum to the next insulting and barking at people. Chill out...
 
Milka
Posts: 162
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 7:45 pm

Re: LOT Polish international growth

Wed Jan 23, 2019 5:45 pm

I also do not understand the drama around subsidised routes. The EU approves Public Service Obligations all the time, airports subsidise routes and big businesses make many routes feasible. Plenty of subsidised routes in the US too. The point is the business community in Budapest requires a business connection to LCY. So the government can and should in such cases, subsidise a route in order to make it work because it will generate additional economic activity that will offset the expense in the long run. Or they might say in a year that it's too expensive to maintain and cancel the route. You should see it as something positive that the Hungarian Government is trying to improve economic investment in different ways. Well lets see what happens with Brexit first, everyone might lose their right to fly to LCY...
 
lhrsfosyd
Posts: 209
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2016 4:57 pm

Re: LOT Polish international growth

Wed Jan 23, 2019 6:06 pm

Milka wrote:
I also do not understand the drama around subsidised routes. The EU approves Public Service Obligations all the time, airports subsidise routes and big businesses make many routes feasible. Plenty of subsidised routes in the US too. The point is the business community in Budapest requires a business connection to LCY. So the government can and should in such cases, subsidise a route in order to make it work because it will generate additional economic activity that will offset the expense in the long run. Or they might say in a year that it's too expensive to maintain and cancel the route. You should see it as something positive that the Hungarian Government is trying to improve economic investment in different ways. Well lets see what happens with Brexit first, everyone might lose their right to fly to LCY...


There are plenty of flights from Budapest to London including multiple daily service to Heathrow by BA. PSO are indeed beneficial IF there are no current links between the cities. PSO routes exist so that provincial cities have access to larger hubs. Governments in highly developed countries do not pay for additional services to cities that already benefit from connectivity, it's something corrupt and incompetent ones do. There are multiple, much wealthier cities across Europe that lack service to LCY yet are able to strive and maintain business activity (CPH, OSL, ARN, MAD, HEL, BCN, VIE).
 
Milka
Posts: 162
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 7:45 pm

Re: LOT Polish international growth

Wed Jan 23, 2019 6:16 pm

lhrsfosyd wrote:
There are plenty of flights from Budapest to London including multiple daily service to Heathrow by BA. PSO are indeed beneficial IF there are no current links between the cities. PSO routes exist so that provincial cities have access to larger hubs. Governments in highly developed countries do not pay for additional services to cities that already benefit from connectivity, it's something corrupt and incompetent ones do. There are multiple, much wealthier cities across Europe that lack service to LCY yet are able to strive and maintain business activity (CPH, OSL, ARN, MAD, HEL, BCN, VIE).


Your arguments have no merit since neither of us knows the specifics behind the route, so you cannot say it's not beneficial or incompetent.
 
lhrsfosyd
Posts: 209
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2016 4:57 pm

Re: LOT Polish international growth

Wed Jan 23, 2019 6:28 pm

Milka wrote:
lhrsfosyd wrote:
There are plenty of flights from Budapest to London including multiple daily service to Heathrow by BA. PSO are indeed beneficial IF there are no current links between the cities. PSO routes exist so that provincial cities have access to larger hubs. Governments in highly developed countries do not pay for additional services to cities that already benefit from connectivity, it's something corrupt and incompetent ones do. There are multiple, much wealthier cities across Europe that lack service to LCY yet are able to strive and maintain business activity (CPH, OSL, ARN, MAD, HEL, BCN, VIE).


Your arguments have no merit since neither of us knows the specifics behind the route, so you cannot say it's not beneficial or incompetent.


Would you mind sharing with us as to why linking BUD with LCY is beneficial when there are already 4 different airlines flying between BUD and five London airports? Are governments of Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Spain, Finland and Austria missing out on the obvious? Seems like Hungarians are economic geniuses?
 
Blerg
Posts: 2337
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: LOT Polish international growth

Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:48 pm

lhrsfosyd wrote:
Milka wrote:
I also do not understand the drama around subsidised routes. The EU approves Public Service Obligations all the time, airports subsidise routes and big businesses make many routes feasible. Plenty of subsidised routes in the US too. The point is the business community in Budapest requires a business connection to LCY. So the government can and should in such cases, subsidise a route in order to make it work because it will generate additional economic activity that will offset the expense in the long run. Or they might say in a year that it's too expensive to maintain and cancel the route. You should see it as something positive that the Hungarian Government is trying to improve economic investment in different ways. Well lets see what happens with Brexit first, everyone might lose their right to fly to LCY...


There are plenty of flights from Budapest to London including multiple daily service to Heathrow by BA. PSO are indeed beneficial IF there are no current links between the cities. PSO routes exist so that provincial cities have access to larger hubs. Governments in highly developed countries do not pay for additional services to cities that already benefit from connectivity, it's something corrupt and incompetent ones do. There are multiple, much wealthier cities across Europe that lack service to LCY yet are able to strive and maintain business activity (CPH, OSL, ARN, MAD, HEL, BCN, VIE).


Well, Slovenia is a highly developed country yet they just gave €4.5 million to their national carrier to provide EU bureaucrats with cheap flights to BRU despite Wizz Air flying to CRL. Italy is another highly developed country yet we are all familiar with the Alitalia saga. Same can be said for Qatar which is still subsidizing QR. So it seems to me that this is something that happens all over the world. It even happens outside the aviation world, look at the EU and CAP.
 
Milka
Posts: 162
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 7:45 pm

Re: LOT Polish international growth

Sun Jan 27, 2019 7:56 pm

Blerg wrote:
Well, Slovenia is a highly developed country yet they just gave €4.5 million to their national carrier to provide EU bureaucrats with cheap flights to BRU despite Wizz Air flying to CRL. Italy is another highly developed country yet we are all familiar with the Alitalia saga. Same can be said for Qatar which is still subsidizing QR. So it seems to me that this is something that happens all over the world. It even happens outside the aviation world, look at the EU and CAP.


No point reasoning with this guy, he is clearly stuck with cold war mentality and does recognise the benefits of routes, that from a purely commercial reason do make huge profits. He even lacks general economic knowledge to be able to look at routes from another perspective, but then again pretends to be an expert in every field. I wonder which carrier in his mind does everything right as every major carrier nowadays benefits from some form of subsidies.
 
Milka
Posts: 162
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 7:45 pm

Re: LOT Polish international growth

Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:13 pm

LOT just took delivery of its 4th 787-9 bringing its Dreamliner fleet to 12 aircraft, it carries the amusing registration SP-LSD. Three more 787-9 are on order, the Airport is reaching its capacity especially the Non-Shengen part of the terminal, expansion is planned despite the planning of the new Central Airport. The Airport will add bays that will handle either 8 type C planes or 3 type E and 2 type C positions depending on demand.

Image

Blue area expansion is planned this year, green by 2020 and orange by 2021.
 
Blerg
Posts: 2337
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: LOT Polish international growth

Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:33 pm

I am confused after looking at that picture. The blue area over remote stands, isn't that there already? What are they changing exactly?

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