Charlotte Aviation Thread - 2019

adamanbermuda · Thu Jan 17, 2019 4:24 pm

Need to get the ball rolling for CLT......

Routes beginning:
AA:
MUC - March 31 - 332
SDQ - June 8 - 320
ERI - May 3 - ER4
TVC - June 8 (seasonal) - ???

CLT needs SFO on UA

Go nuts.

NateGreat · Thu Jan 17, 2019 4:27 pm

Any idea when or if CLT will get any of the LAA widebodies (B772, B77W, B788, B789)?

Boof02671 · Thu Jan 17, 2019 4:30 pm

Probably not till the 333s start to be retired.

cporcelli78 · Thu Jan 17, 2019 4:39 pm

need ISP

WPvsMW · Thu Jan 17, 2019 4:40 pm

Need HNL nonstop.

Boof02671 · Thu Jan 17, 2019 4:43 pm

WPvsMW wrote:
Need HNL nonstop.

Already tried that. Flight was a money loser and a lot of times the 762 had to make a fuel stop.

maps4ltd · Thu Jan 17, 2019 4:47 pm

cporcelli78 wrote:
need ISP

I second this! ERJ-145 Piedmont. 2x daily at first. CLT is better than FLL.

MIflyer12 · Thu Jan 17, 2019 4:47 pm

WPvsMW wrote:
Need HNL nonstop.

Point to an airport in the Eastern or Central time zone with as little domestic O&D as CLT that also has a non-stop to HNL.

JetBlueCLT · Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:15 pm

I’ll take a stab at it.

First off, already an impressive year to look forward to. With AA year round MUC, LH upgrading to an A359 and AC FINALLY sending a worthy product to CLT with the E75. Looking good already. Some other adds starting this summer as well for AA.

Now, focusing on my personal predictions below

-Year round CLT-MAD
-CLT-ICT/SCE/MLI/ISP
-Annoucement of a 3rd seasonal LHR for S20. Preferably on BA. AA/BA would split the winter schedule
-VCE OR AMS announcement for S20 on an A332
-EI announcement of CLT-DUB. Year round, 5 weekly in the winter. A321neoLR
-UA: CLT-SFO, 2 daily A319(1 flight on Saturday)
WN-Daily STL and DEN
F9- Whatever the dartboard gives us.
AS-CLT-SEA(Wishful thinking probably)
B6-Would love to see FLL(Not counting on it with recent reductions), but probably an additional BOS flight and or an upguage of one of the CLT-JFK flights.

Wild card: CLT-GRU

*Key thing to note* AA should be acquiring 7 gates on concourse A sometime in early 2020. Which will finally give them some breathing room! Growth will be pretty stale on the AA side until they get those gates imo. Which is why most of predictions are intended for a 2020 start.

TWFlyGuy · Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:36 pm

JetBlueCLT wrote:
*Key thing to note* AA should be acquiring 7 gates on concourse A sometime in early 2020. Which will finally give them some breathing room! Growth will be pretty stale on the AA side until they get those gates imo. Which is why most of predictions are intended for a 2020 start.

I remember an interview of the VP of Network Planning saying they would like to do more Int'l from CLT but are gate constrained. When these gates open and they can shift some stuff over to A, I think a lot of what you are saying will happen. What I think would be cool/smart is for AA to almost dedicate those A gates to big business markets. It also would happen to be hubs for them in many cases. So if all LGA/DFW/ORD/MIA/ATL/LAX flights left from A, that would free up a lot of capacity on other concourses. You likely wouldn't replace with other markets that have the frequency demand of those and coule replace with options to multiple markets.

Boof02671 · Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:55 pm

Once again CLT to GRU was tried and failed.

Janj · Thu Jan 17, 2019 6:56 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
Once again CLT to GRU was tried and failed.

It didn't necessarily fail, it was just moved (along with GIG) to Miami after the merger with AA. Now with Open Skies, maybe there's a chance of it coming back.

However, I think CLT-northern South America will probably come before deep SA.

Cubsrule · Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:16 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
WPvsMW wrote:
Need HNL nonstop.

Already tried that. Flight was a money loser and a lot of times the 762 had to make a fuel stop.

True, although AA now has scads of widebodies with the range (every widebody in the fleet, in fact). The trouble is that they are all larger than the 762, and CLT is not in a great location for Hawaii given the very limited O&D.

FlyingJhawk · Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:25 pm

This is not meant to derail the thread but just last week was my first time to CLT in quite a while. I was there to get a connection to GCM and while the making the connection itself was great (our inbound and outbound flights were next to each other) I found the taxing seemed to take a relatively long time and ramp traffic seemed awfully congested for mid day movements. Is this normal?

WPvsMW · Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:39 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
WPvsMW wrote:
Need HNL nonstop.

Already tried that. Flight was a money loser and a lot of times the 762 had to make a fuel stop.

True, although AA now has scads of widebodies with the range (every widebody in the fleet, in fact). The trouble is that they are all larger than the 762, and CLT is not in a great location for Hawaii given the very limited O&D.

A CLT/HNL nonstop would depend almost entirely on connections... just like every other long haul nonstop serving CLT.
Perfect for a B788. CLT is much more networked than during the B762 effort.

CLTRampRat · Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:54 pm

I’ll throw my two sense in.

-Southwest adds at least one new route. I know PHX/LAS/DEN are all being considered.

-Spirit announces service. “We are talking. It’s close.” We shall see.

As an above comment speculated I would LOVE to see EI come in. They would be the easiest way for me to see a friend in BHX.

cheapgreek · Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:08 pm

Looking for AA CLT-HVN to go daily.

Cubsrule · Fri Jan 18, 2019 1:31 pm

WPvsMW wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
Already tried that. Flight was a money loser and a lot of times the 762 had to make a fuel stop.

True, although AA now has scads of widebodies with the range (every widebody in the fleet, in fact). The trouble is that they are all larger than the 762, and CLT is not in a great location for Hawaii given the very limited O&D.

A CLT/HNL nonstop would depend almost entirely on connections... just like every other long haul nonstop serving CLT.
Perfect for a B788. CLT is much more networked than during the B762 effort.

Here's the problem: the southeast isn't a huge market to Hawaii to start with, and CLT-HNL could only at best capture a segment of it. If I want to fly RDU-OGG or BNA-KOA, does it make sense for a hypothetical CLT-HNL to be part of that itinerary? I'd suggest not.

adamanbermuda · Fri Jan 18, 2019 1:53 pm

CLT - HNL would have to rely almost entirely on connecting passengers, and there isn’t enough traffic from the Southeast to HNL to justify CLT - HNL. I don’t think AA is losing any passengers by making customers from destinations only served from CLT connect in CLT and then DFW/PHX/LAX. They have the data, if there was enough traffic from AVL/ILM/MLB/MYR/EWN to HNL im sure AA would have already considered bringing it back. All the cities just mentioned are very small markets, anything bigger than those in the south east already has a direct to DFW.

Moose135 · Fri Jan 18, 2019 2:28 pm

FlyingJhawk wrote:
This is not meant to derail the thread but just last week was my first time to CLT in quite a while. I was there to get a connection to GCM and while the making the connection itself was great (our inbound and outbound flights were next to each other) I found the taxing seemed to take a relatively long time and ramp traffic seemed awfully congested for mid day movements. Is this normal?

Yes, it can get busy at times, that's part of the reason there is so much construction going on, which in turn adds to the congestion.

jplatts · Fri Jan 18, 2019 2:34 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
Here's the problem: the southeast isn't a huge market to Hawaii to start with, and CLT-HNL could only at best capture a segment of it. If I want to fly RDU-OGG or BNA-KOA, does it make sense for a hypothetical CLT-HNL to be part of that itinerary? I'd suggest not.

AA already serves both DFW and LAX nonstop from RDU, and AA can already connect passengers to Hawaii from RDU through DFW or LAX.

WPvsMW · Fri Jan 18, 2019 2:35 pm

Re: CLT/HNL. Check out the LFs on DL's ATL/HNL nonstops, and the fares for lie-flat, B764 or B772 daily, 2x daily in summer. I think CLT has the feed for 1x daily B788. Start 3x weekly and build if needed. Where are the ex-ATL pax connecting from? The Atlantic seaboard. Moreover, a new B788 is going to divert DL pax who prefer the Dreamliner to the B764. AA can market "better air" and wifi among other attributes, though I think AA has to upgauge their streaming video catalog.

Boof02671 · Fri Jan 18, 2019 2:43 pm

If the need and money was there for a HNL flight it would be here.

CLT doesn’t have the O&D for such a flight.

There was a reason it was ended in the past.

Boof02671 · Fri Jan 18, 2019 2:47 pm

Anyone know the PDEW for CLT-HNL?

OneAA · Fri Jan 18, 2019 3:37 pm

My predictions for CLT in 2019:
- AA grows their flights to 1,000 plus daily.
- UA opens a Southeast hub in CLT
- DL moves the Atlanta hub to CLT
- Emirates, Qatar and Ethihad all start service.
- CLT becomes connected via nonstops to every continent on earth.
- Elon Musk and Richard Branson work together to make CLT the hub of a hyperloop / spaceport connection.
- CLT opens 10 additional runways to handle the 4000 plus daily flights that AA, UA and DL bring by having their world hubs there.
- CLT gets hourly flights to Heathrow.

Cubsrule · Fri Jan 18, 2019 4:21 pm

WPvsMW wrote:
Re: CLT/HNL. Check out the LFs on DL's ATL/HNL nonstops, and the fares for lie-flat, B764 or B772 daily, 2x daily in summer. I think CLT has the feed for 1x daily B788. Start 3x weekly and build if needed. Where are the ex-ATL pax connecting from? The Atlantic seaboard. Moreover, a new B788 is going to divert DL pax who prefer the Dreamliner to the B764. AA can market "better air" and wifi among other attributes, though I think AA has to upgauge their streaming video catalog.

We have to remember that DL and AA have dramatically different networks. DL doesn't have a DFW; it's not true that virtually everyone on the Atlantic seaboard can get to a DL hub with year-round service to multiple islands, but that is true of AA even without CLT-HNL. Moreover, product to Hawaii by and large doesn't matter. Otherwise AA would have done something about the deplorable condition of the PHX 757s eons ago. Note that those airplanes fly a grand total of two or three routes that don't involve Hawaii.

jplatts · Fri Jan 18, 2019 4:33 pm

adamanbermuda wrote:
CLT - HNL would have to rely almost entirely on connecting passengers, and there isn’t enough traffic from the Southeast to HNL to justify CLT - HNL. I don’t think AA is losing any passengers by making customers from destinations only served from CLT connect in CLT and then DFW/PHX/LAX. They have the data, if there was enough traffic from AVL/ILM/MLB/MYR/EWN to HNL im sure AA would have already considered bringing it back. All the cities just mentioned are very small markets, anything bigger than those in the south east already has a direct to DFW.

In addition to O&D traffic from CLT and connecting traffic from the Northeast, AA would also be able to connect passengers to HNL from the Northeastern U.S. and Mid-Atlantic states through CLT if AA adds CLT-HNL nonstop service. AA also has a large FF base in NYC to support CLT-HNL nonstop service since (a) AA has hubs at both LGA and JFK, (b) JFK was an AA hub prior to the AA-US merger, and (c) LGA was an AA focus city prior to the AA-US merger.

There will certainly be some passengers connecting to HNL from the Northeastern U.S. through CLT if AA adds CLT-HNL nonstop service. There would also likely be more passengers connecting to HNL through CLT on AA from NYC than was the case when US last operated CLT-HNL nonstop service if AA adds CLT-HNL nonstop service since AA has a large FF base in NYC due to AA having hubs at LGA and JFK.

AA is also the only US3 carrier that currently doesn't have nonstop service to Hawaii from any East Coast hubs, whereas DL already serves HNL nonstop from ATL and UA already serves HNL nonstop from EWR and IAD.

Boof02671 · Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:36 pm

Still doesn’t make sense.

AA has shrunk it’s NYC footprint.

You could fly JFK-HNL on HA 332.

Or fly to LAX, SFO, ORD and many other cities to connect.

Once again the flight was tried and failed.

If there was a demand AA would be flying it.

CV880 · Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:07 pm

The 762 failed due to fuel stops enroute. Also ATL's O&D is less than 40% as an average....not sustainable without feed either. Some on here assume that AA is incapable of capturing any of the DL feed.

jplatts · Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:18 pm

CLTRampRat wrote:
I’ll throw my two sense in.

-Southwest adds at least one new route. I know PHX/LAS/DEN are all being considered.

-Spirit announces service. “We are talking. It’s close.” We shall see.

It is unusual for CLT not to have nonstop service to LAS on WN or a ULCC since (a) CLT is located in a market that has a population of over 2.5 million people and (b) all of the other markets in the contiguous U.S. that are at least as big as CLT already do have nonstop service to CLT on WN or a ULCC.

CLT can likely support nonstop service to LAS on WN, F9, or NK in addition to AA since every other market in the contiguous U.S. that is as big as CLT is able to support nonstop service to LAS on at least one LCC. There are also a few markets similar in size to CLT that already have more nonstop service to LAS than CLT does, including PDX and SMF.

OneAA · Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:29 pm

Janj wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
Once again CLT to GRU was tried and failed.

It didn't necessarily fail, it was just moved (along with GIG) to Miami after the merger with AA. Now with Open Skies, maybe there's a chance of it coming back.

However, I think CLT-northern South America will probably come before deep SA.

Why would AA need any Charlotte to South America flights? Miami has South America completely covered for AA and the mega hub in DFW has most major cities in South America covered. Between those two, fail to see a need for CLT to South America flights.

dfwjim1 · Fri Jan 18, 2019 11:17 pm

OneAA wrote:
Janj wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
Once again CLT to GRU was tried and failed.

It didn't necessarily fail, it was just moved (along with GIG) to Miami after the merger with AA. Now with Open Skies, maybe there's a chance of it coming back.

However, I think CLT-northern South America will probably come before deep SA.

Why would AA need any Charlotte to South America flights? Miami has South America completely covered for AA and the mega hub in DFW has most major cities in South America covered. Between those two, fail to see a need for CLT to South America flights.

You are absolutely right. And the same thing goes for flights from CLT to the Hawaiian Islands...connections can be easily made in LAX, PHX and DFW as those AA stations are basically on the way to the Islands. The fanboys in CLT really need to be thankful for what they have now and what they might be gain this year. The fact is that CLT is a small metro area that has very little tourist appeal both for folks living in the United States and those visiting from overseas.

nomorerjs · Sat Jan 19, 2019 1:02 am

CLT, please don’t become the next DTW!

WPvsMW · Sat Jan 19, 2019 1:14 am

dfwjim1 wrote:
The fact is that CLT is a small metro area that has very little tourist appeal both for folks living in the United States and those visiting from overseas.

No one has opined that CLT is a "destination". Quite the opposite. CLT is all about connections, including connectiing the E. Coast to HNL.

Cubsrule · Sat Jan 19, 2019 1:15 am

OneAA wrote:
Janj wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
Once again CLT to GRU was tried and failed.

It didn't necessarily fail, it was just moved (along with GIG) to Miami after the merger with AA. Now with Open Skies, maybe there's a chance of it coming back.

However, I think CLT-northern South America will probably come before deep SA.

Why would AA need any Charlotte to South America flights? Miami has South America completely covered for AA and the mega hub in DFW has most major cities in South America covered. Between those two, fail to see a need for CLT to South America flights.

AA is a super cheap, huge domestic hub. MIA isn’t. That’s the case for CLT-South America. So far, it hasn’t been good enough.

flymco753 · Sat Jan 19, 2019 1:38 pm

nomorerjs wrote:
CLT, please don’t become the next DTW!

You're the one goimg around and starting it, you're the problem.

sargester · Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:04 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
WPvsMW wrote:
Need HNL nonstop.

Already tried that. Flight was a money loser and a lot of times the 762 had to make a fuel stop.

if they use the 332 I would guarantee this route would do just as well as ATL-HNL, US used the wrong equipment at the wrong time

nc3rd · Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:58 pm

Just forget HNL-CLT. Its not going to happen. Its a destination that an airline flies to because they have to, not because they want to. There is no way the flight would justify tying up that many planes and crews for that flight when they can make much more money on other routes. Its a vacation/leasure route with low fares and frequent flyers.

adamanbermuda · Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:31 am

sargester wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
WPvsMW wrote:
Need HNL nonstop.

Already tried that. Flight was a money loser and a lot of times the 762 had to make a fuel stop.

if they use the 332 I would guarantee this route would do just as well as ATL-HNL, US used the wrong equipment at the wrong time

If you can guarantee it by all means send your proof to Doug Parker and I’m sure he would be very thankful

cheapgreek · Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:40 am

sargester wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
WPvsMW wrote:
Need HNL nonstop.

Already tried that. Flight was a money loser and a lot of times the 762 had to make a fuel stop.

if they use the 332 I would guarantee this route would do just as well as ATL-HNL, US used the wrong equipment at the wrong time

US had a very small widebody fleet and I don't remember if they had the A332 at that time but only 9 A333's which were not good on long distance flights. They were always weight restricted from FCO. The 767-200's made up the rest of the small widebody fleet,and these could not do the ATH-PHL flights without weight restrictions, I was stuck in Athens for two days trying to get out.

JetBlueCLT · Mon Jan 21, 2019 1:34 am

dfwjim1 wrote:
OneAA wrote:
Janj wrote:
It didn't necessarily fail, it was just moved (along with GIG) to Miami after the merger with AA. Now with Open Skies, maybe there's a chance of it coming back.

However, I think CLT-northern South America will probably come before deep SA.

Why would AA need any Charlotte to South America flights? Miami has South America completely covered for AA and the mega hub in DFW has most major cities in South America covered. Between those two, fail to see a need for CLT to South America flights.

You are absolutely right. And the same thing goes for flights from CLT to the Hawaiian Islands...connections can be easily made in LAX, PHX and DFW as those AA stations are basically on the way to the Islands. The fanboys in CLT really need to be thankful for what they have now and what they might be gain this year. The fact is that CLT is a small metro area that has very little tourist appeal both for folks living in the United States and those visiting from overseas.

"The fanboys in CLT really need to be thankful for what they have now and what they might be gain this year." I love these asinine comments on anet. AA should be thankful to have a hub in such a great geographic location for a hub. Regardless of its 2.5 metro population. Funny, every time I listen or read any quarterly results. I always seem to hear that CLT is the 1st or 2nd most profitable hub. Why should people be scolded or harrased on here for suggesting new routes out of here. The amount of toxic users with hate for CLT on here is mind boggling.....and funny, honestly. Thats not all directed to you btw. Reason why I try to stay off this site.

Whatever, *majority* of the routes that get added seem to be very successful from Charlotte.

JetBlueCLT · Mon Jan 21, 2019 1:35 am

OneAA wrote:
My predictions for CLT in 2019:
- AA grows their flights to 1,000 plus daily.
- UA opens a Southeast hub in CLT
- DL moves the Atlanta hub to CLT
- Emirates, Qatar and Ethihad all start service.
- CLT becomes connected via nonstops to every continent on earth.
- Elon Musk and Richard Branson work together to make CLT the hub of a hyperloop / spaceport connection.
- CLT opens 10 additional runways to handle the 4000 plus daily flights that AA, UA and DL bring by having their world hubs there.
- CLT gets hourly flights to Heathrow.

Thanks for adding so much value to the thread!

dfwjim1 · Mon Jan 21, 2019 2:32 am

JetBlueCLT wrote:
dfwjim1 wrote:
OneAA wrote:

Why would AA need any Charlotte to South America flights? Miami has South America completely covered for AA and the mega hub in DFW has most major cities in South America covered. Between those two, fail to see a need for CLT to South America flights.

You are absolutely right. And the same thing goes for flights from CLT to the Hawaiian Islands...connections can be easily made in LAX, PHX and DFW as those AA stations are basically on the way to the Islands. The fanboys in CLT really need to be thankful for what they have now and what they might be gain this year. The fact is that CLT is a small metro area that has very little tourist appeal both for folks living in the United States and those visiting from overseas.

"The fanboys in CLT really need to be thankful for what they have now and what they might be gain this year." I love these asinine comments on anet. AA should be thankful to have a hub in such a great geographic location for a hub. Regardless of its 2.5 metro population. Funny, every time I listen or read any quarterly results. I always seem to hear that CLT is the 1st or 2nd most profitable hub. Why should people be scolded or harrased on here for suggesting new routes out of here. The amount of toxic users with hate for CLT on here is mind boggling.....and funny, honestly. Thats not all directed to you btw. Reason why I try to stay off this site.

No hate here for CLT as I have been through CLT several times transferring on U.S. Airways and AA and I like the airport. However suggesting that flights to South America and/or Honolulu on AA is totally unrealistic as long as AA has hubs in MIA, DFW, LAX, PHX and ORD.

Whatever, *majority* of the routes that get added seem to be very successful from Charlotte.

chepos · Mon Jan 21, 2019 4:58 am

cheapgreek wrote:
sargester wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
Already tried that. Flight was a money loser and a lot of times the 762 had to make a fuel stop.

if they use the 332 I would guarantee this route would do just as well as ATL-HNL, US used the wrong equipment at the wrong time

US had a very small widebody fleet and I don't remember if they had the A332 at that time but only 9 A333's which were not good on long distance flights. They were always weight restricted from FCO. The 767-200's made up the rest of the small widebody fleet,and these could not do the ATH-PHL flights without weight restrictions, I was stuck in Athens for two days trying to get out.

When CLT HNL started in Dec 2019 the 332 was on property, but the few they had at the time were dedicated to TLV (and possibly PHL LHR). TLV had just started that summer. The 332 had the nicest J cabin at the time, they were not going to dedicate the few on property to fly HNL.

Boof02671 · Mon Jan 21, 2019 6:03 am

Dec 2019?

chepos · Mon Jan 21, 2019 2:33 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
Dec 2019?

Typo, meant to say 2009.

jplatts · Mon Jan 21, 2019 2:56 pm

adamanbermuda wrote:
CLT needs SFO on UA

JetBlueCLT wrote:
-UA: CLT-SFO, 2 daily A319(1 flight on Saturday)

CLT can probably support nonstop service to SFO on UA in addition to AA since (a) SFO is a major hub for UA, (b) San Francisco-based Wells Fargo has a significant presence in Charlotte, (c) there are many frequent flyers in the San Francisco Bay Area who prefer to fly on airlines other than AA, (d) there are significant banking industry ties between the San Francisco Bay Area and Greater Charlotte, (e) there are already some travelers connecting to CLT from SFO on UA, and (f) UA would be able to offer connections to Asia, Australia, New Zealand, Alaska, and Hawaii from CLT through SFO if UA adds CLT-SFO nonstop service.

adamanbermuda · Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:28 am

Updates as of 4/22:

AA:
TYS - 1 of 7 daily upgraded from CR9 to mainline 319
FNT - New 2x Daily service on ER4 (Envoy)

F9:
LAS - New 1x Daily service on 320

Question:
CLT wikipedia page shows VivaAerobus operating to Cancun..... I am 99% sure this is incorrect but I suppose it could be a tour company or something like that? VivaAerobus shows up now multiple times on the webpage so it doesn't seem an error from whoever edited the page. Can someone clarify this?

jplatts · Wed Jan 22, 2020 11:55 pm

Could someone please lock Charlotte Aviation Thread - 2019 and start Charlotte Aviation Thread - 2020?

jplatts · Sat Jan 25, 2020 6:40 pm

Link to 2020 thread: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1439825

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