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787SEA
Topic Author
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:58 pm

AS Pacific Northwest to Hawaii flights routing through Bay Area

Fri Jan 18, 2019 11:14 pm

Long time reader and first time poster!

Looking at Flightradar24, I noticed several AS flights from the Pacific Northwest adding an unscheduled stop in the Bay Area (SMF/OAK/SJC) on the way to Hawaii. This is due to stiff headwinds I imagine. For example, AS 843 from SEA-KOA is doing SEA-OAK-KOA, as shown below. The scheduled time of arrival (STA) of this flight into KOA is 2:25pm local time (Alaska's website cheated and displayed the STA into KOA in Pacific time), but the new estimate time of arrival is 4:41pm, more than 2 hours late!

Image

The AS reroutes to Hawaii that I've found are:
    SEA-OAK-KOA
    SEA-OAK-HNL
    SEA-SMF-OGG
    PDX-OAK-KOA
    PDX-OAK-HNL
    PDX-SJC-LIH
    PDX-SMF-OGG

Heck, even a DL 757 going from SEA-HNL turned back to SFO an hour over the Pacific!
Image

Interestingly, AC and WS flights from YVR to Hawaii seem unaffected, instead taking a rather northerly route to Hawaii.
 
yeginleduc
Posts: 77
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2007 12:12 pm

Re: AS Pacific Northwest to Hawaii flights routing through Bay Area

Sat Jan 19, 2019 1:25 am

The AC and WS flights yesterday YVR-HNL took over 7 hours. But they made it non-stop on a 738. Is weather over SEA today making a difference in the performance?
 
77H
Posts: 1570
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2016 11:27 pm

Re: AS Pacific Northwest to Hawaii flights routing through Bay Area

Sat Jan 19, 2019 1:39 am

787SEA wrote:
Long time reader and first time poster!

Looking at Flightradar24, I noticed several AS flights from the Pacific Northwest adding an unscheduled stop in the Bay Area (SMF/OAK/SJC) on the way to Hawaii. This is due to stiff headwinds I imagine. For example, AS 843 from SEA-KOA is doing SEA-OAK-KOA, as shown below. The scheduled time of arrival (STA) of this flight into KOA is 2:25pm local time (Alaska's website cheated and displayed the STA into KOA in Pacific time), but the new estimate time of arrival is 4:41pm, more than 2 hours late!

Image

The AS reroutes to Hawaii that I've found are:
    SEA-OAK-KOA
    SEA-OAK-HNL
    SEA-SMF-OGG
    PDX-OAK-KOA
    PDX-OAK-HNL
    PDX-SJC-LIH
    PDX-SMF-OGG

Heck, even a DL 757 going from SEA-HNL turned back to SFO an hour over the Pacific!
Image

Interestingly, AC and WS flights from YVR to Hawaii seem unaffected, instead taking a rather northerly route to Hawaii.


I was on a UA 752 last night LAX-HNL. Our flight time was over 6hr15m. Conversely, the day before I was on a UA 753 HNL-LAX and we arrived into LAX 35 minutes ahead of schedule. We also were up at FL380 which is the highest cruise altitude I’ve ever seen a 753 get up to.

77H
 
wedgetail737
Posts: 5287
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:44 am

Re: AS Pacific Northwest to Hawaii flights routing through Bay Area

Sat Jan 19, 2019 2:56 am

There's a real strong jetstream out of SW these days...it happens often during this time of year.
 
787SEA
Topic Author
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:58 pm

Re: AS Pacific Northwest to Hawaii flights routing through Bay Area

Sat Jan 19, 2019 3:09 am

wedgetail737 wrote:
There's a real strong jetstream out of SW these days...it happens often during this time of year.


Thanks for the insight. Any idea why the 737 flights from Vancouver were able to make it nonstop, while the 737 flights from Seattle and Portland (both closer to Hawaii than Vancouver) had to go through California?
 
JayinKitsap
Posts: 2295
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2005 9:55 am

Re: AS Pacific Northwest to Hawaii flights routing through Bay Area

Sat Jan 19, 2019 4:10 am

The winds right now are going from HNL right toward SEA, YVR may have been able to fly west for an hour or so then SW on the back side of the 'swirl'. We have had high wind warnings all day near SEA.
 
hoya
Posts: 547
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2004 2:25 pm

Re: AS Pacific Northwest to Hawaii flights routing through Bay Area

Sat Jan 19, 2019 4:16 am

787SEA wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:
There's a real strong jetstream out of SW these days...it happens often during this time of year.


Thanks for the insight. Any idea why the 737 flights from Vancouver were able to make it nonstop, while the 737 flights from Seattle and Portland (both closer to Hawaii than Vancouver) had to go through California?


Isn't AC flying MAX8s from YVR? They have more range than the AS 737s.
Hoya Saxa!!
 
User avatar
EA CO AS
Posts: 15765
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2001 8:54 am

Re: AS Pacific Northwest to Hawaii flights routing through Bay Area

Sat Jan 19, 2019 4:32 am

Pineapple Express winter winds occasionally impact PNW-HI flights, and in those instances a tech stop is made in OAK. It doesn’t happen terribly often, but it’s not a process AS is unfamiliar with, and guests are typically offered some compensation for the delay.
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Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
32andBelow
Posts: 5035
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: AS Pacific Northwest to Hawaii flights routing through Bay Area

Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:31 am

One time Alaska tried to stop a 737 in AKN on anc-hnl
 
Dash8Driver16
Posts: 133
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2011 7:07 pm

Re: AS Pacific Northwest to Hawaii flights routing through Bay Area

Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:34 am

The SEA-SMF-OGG is a scheduled route and not an added tech stop.
 
User avatar
itripreport
Posts: 125
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2016 6:36 pm

Re: AS Pacific Northwest to Hawaii flights routing through Bay Area

Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:52 am

77H wrote:
787SEA wrote:
Long time reader and first time poster!


I was on a UA 752 last night LAX-HNL. Our flight time was over 6hr15m. Conversely, the day before I was on a UA 753 HNL-LAX and we arrived into LAX 35 minutes ahead of schedule. We also were up at FL380 which is the highest cruise altitude I’ve ever seen a 753 get up to.

77H


Not surprised, been on fully loaded 752s, with still an hour left of flight, at FL420...
 
mandargb
Posts: 268
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2001 8:00 am

Re: AS Pacific Northwest to Hawaii flights routing through Bay Area

Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:58 am

FL420 is service ceiling for 752.
I have been on one SFO-ORD few years ago at FL410 also.
 
32andBelow
Posts: 5035
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: AS Pacific Northwest to Hawaii flights routing through Bay Area

Sat Jan 19, 2019 7:02 am

FL420 is not a useable altitude so this is fake news.

Edit. I guess you could have been cleared 400B430
 
77H
Posts: 1570
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2016 11:27 pm

Re: AS Pacific Northwest to Hawaii flights routing through Bay Area

Sat Jan 19, 2019 7:10 am

itripreport wrote:
77H wrote:
787SEA wrote:
Long time reader and first time poster!


I was on a UA 752 last night LAX-HNL. Our flight time was over 6hr15m. Conversely, the day before I was on a UA 753 HNL-LAX and we arrived into LAX 35 minutes ahead of schedule. We also were up at FL380 which is the highest cruise altitude I’ve ever seen a 753 get up to.

77H


Not surprised, been on fully loaded 752s, with still an hour left of flight, at FL420...


Right, for a 752 that is not uncommon. I’ve been up to FL410 myself, but the 753 usually operates at lower altitudes between FL310-FL340 from my experience. So going up to FL380 in a 753 was unique, at least for me.

77H
 
User avatar
RWA380
Posts: 5747
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 10:51 am

Re: AS Pacific Northwest to Hawaii flights routing through Bay Area

Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:10 am

JayinKitsap wrote:
The winds right now are going from HNL right toward SEA, YVR may have been able to fly west for an hour or so then SW on the back side of the 'swirl'. We have had high wind warnings all day near SEA.


I have flown PNW to Hawaii a lot & these tech stops are pretty uncommon. When we have left Portland & gone down the Willamette Valley & exited the continent around Eureka & my last HA 763 was routed the reverse from Honolulu over Eureka & up the valley. We have gone straight out over the water & battled strong headwinds giving us 6:15 block time PDX-HNL or come back with such strong tailwinds I’ve logged HNL-SFO on a DC-10-40 in 3:45 or LIH-PDX in 4:30.

It seems the winds aloft were more than the carriers had anticipated & each captain made the choice to stop in Northern California, the part of the mainland closest to Hawaii.

I see AS uses OAK almost exclusively, in fact other than the normal SEA-SMF-OGG flight, I think the rest are all scheduled non-stop. Ma nature won today.

Hawaii is a place where the strong winds aloft can take their toll on a 737 crossing the water & thank god all those in charge are paying attention. Nothing like tapping the fuel gauge once or twice on final.
707 717 720 727-1/2 737-1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9 747-1/2/3/4 757-2/3 767-2/3/4 777-2/3 DC8 DC9 MD80/2/7/8 D10-1/3/4 M11 L10-1/2/5 A300/310/320
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frmrCapCadet
Posts: 4423
Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 8:24 pm

Re: AS Pacific Northwest to Hawaii flights routing through Bay Area

Sat Jan 19, 2019 2:44 pm

If you don't have the link, windy.com give it a try. It is predicted winds, current and for the next several days. It does not link to actual reported winds. There are more overlays, options, altitudes, waves, gusts, pressure, choose your weather model than you could try out in an hour
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
smflyer
Posts: 259
Joined: Tue May 01, 2018 4:44 pm

Re: AS Pacific Northwest to Hawaii flights routing through Bay Area

Sat Jan 19, 2019 3:39 pm

Dash8Driver16 wrote:
The SEA-SMF-OGG is a scheduled route and not an added tech stop.


Yes can confirm, SEA-SMF-OGG is a scheduled route daily.
 
Chugach
Posts: 1345
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 10:18 am

Re: AS Pacific Northwest to Hawaii flights routing through Bay Area

Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:14 pm

32andBelow wrote:
One time Alaska tried to stop a 737 in AKN on anc-hnl


They didn’t try...they did. Except I remember it being ANC-AKN-OGG.
 
Chugach
Posts: 1345
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 10:18 am

Re: AS Pacific Northwest to Hawaii flights routing through Bay Area

Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:18 pm

77H wrote:
787SEA wrote:
Long time reader and first time poster!

Looking at Flightradar24, I noticed several AS flights from the Pacific Northwest adding an unscheduled stop in the Bay Area (SMF/OAK/SJC) on the way to Hawaii. This is due to stiff headwinds I imagine. For example, AS 843 from SEA-KOA is doing SEA-OAK-KOA, as shown below. The scheduled time of arrival (STA) of this flight into KOA is 2:25pm local time (Alaska's website cheated and displayed the STA into KOA in Pacific time), but the new estimate time of arrival is 4:41pm, more than 2 hours late!

Image

The AS reroutes to Hawaii that I've found are:
    SEA-OAK-KOA
    SEA-OAK-HNL
    SEA-SMF-OGG
    PDX-OAK-KOA
    PDX-OAK-HNL
    PDX-SJC-LIH
    PDX-SMF-OGG

Heck, even a DL 757 going from SEA-HNL turned back to SFO an hour over the Pacific!
Image

Interestingly, AC and WS flights from YVR to Hawaii seem unaffected, instead taking a rather northerly route to Hawaii.


I was on a UA 752 last night LAX-HNL. Our flight time was over 6hr15m. Conversely, the day before I was on a UA 753 HNL-LAX and we arrived into LAX 35 minutes ahead of schedule. We also were up at FL380 which is the highest cruise altitude I’ve ever seen a 753 get up to.

77H


I did MCO-PDX last night (basically the same distance as PDX-Hawaii) and we blocked in at 6hrs22min. The jet stream is howling right now.
 
BoeingGuy
Posts: 6313
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:01 pm

Re: AS Pacific Northwest to Hawaii flights routing through Bay Area

Sat Jan 19, 2019 7:25 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
Pineapple Express winter winds occasionally impact PNW-HI flights, and in those instances a tech stop is made in OAK. It doesn’t happen terribly often, but it’s not a process AS is unfamiliar with, and guests are typically offered some compensation for the delay.


Doesn’t it happen a lot less frequently now with APU-on-demand?
 
Caryjack
Posts: 416
Joined: Tue May 08, 2007 9:45 am

Re: AS Pacific Northwest to Hawaii flights routing through Bay Area

Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:01 pm

Chugach wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
One time Alaska tried to stop a 737 in AKN on anc-hnl


They didn’t try...they did. Except I remember it being ANC-AKN-OGG.


It looks like AS has been to AKN more than a few times.

https://www.google.com/maps/uv?hl=en&pb ... CnoECAUQBg
 
32andBelow
Posts: 5035
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: AS Pacific Northwest to Hawaii flights routing through Bay Area

Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:03 pm

Caryjack wrote:
Chugach wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
One time Alaska tried to stop a 737 in AKN on anc-hnl


They didn’t try...they did. Except I remember it being ANC-AKN-OGG.


It looks like AS has been to AKN more than a few times.

https://www.google.com/maps/uv?hl=en&pb ... CnoECAUQBg

Well they fly there in the summer...the station and fueling is run by Penair though
 
32andBelow
Posts: 5035
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: AS Pacific Northwest to Hawaii flights routing through Bay Area

Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:04 pm

Chugach wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
One time Alaska tried to stop a 737 in AKN on anc-hnl


They didn’t try...they did. Except I remember it being ANC-AKN-OGG.

The way I heard the story is they request like almost all the jet a on property when they did it.
 
Chugach
Posts: 1345
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 10:18 am

Re: AS Pacific Northwest to Hawaii flights routing through Bay Area

Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:54 pm

Caryjack wrote:
Chugach wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
One time Alaska tried to stop a 737 in AKN on anc-hnl


They didn’t try...they did. Except I remember it being ANC-AKN-OGG.


It looks like AS has been to AKN more than a few times.

https://www.google.com/maps/uv?hl=en&pb ... CnoECAUQBg


AS has flown ANC-AKN seasonally for decades now. Doing an unscheduled midwinter pit stop enroute to Hawaii was a bit of an eyebrow raiser.
 
787SEA
Topic Author
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:58 pm

Re: AS Pacific Northwest to Hawaii flights routing through Bay Area

Sun Jan 20, 2019 7:10 am

frmrCapCadet wrote:
If you don't have the link, windy.com give it a try. It is predicted winds, current and for the next several days. It does not link to actual reported winds. There are more overlays, options, altitudes, waves, gusts, pressure, choose your weather model than you could try out in an hour


Woah, that's awesome! Thanks for the link frmrCapCadet.
 
Whiteguy
Posts: 1572
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2003 6:11 am

Re: AS Pacific Northwest to Hawaii flights routing through Bay Area

Sun Jan 20, 2019 7:36 am

hoya wrote:
787SEA wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:
There's a real strong jetstream out of SW these days...it happens often during this time of year.


Thanks for the insight. Any idea why the 737 flights from Vancouver were able to make it nonstop, while the 737 flights from Seattle and Portland (both closer to Hawaii than Vancouver) had to go through California?


Isn't AC flying MAX8s from YVR? They have more range than the AS 737s.


Yup, AC is using the MAX to the islands and AC & WS are both using the MAX from YYC to OGG.

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