A new thread to have discussions about gulf coastal airports that don't have thousands of daily flights yet perhaps should be higher up on the food chain than they are. Or at least we think they should be.
I will start with BFM and for anyone that isn't aware yet the groundbreaking ceremony for the A220 FAL was last Wednesday. There has already been construction going on well before that, however not necessarily digging the ground up for the buildings, but ramp work next to Mobile Aerospace. Going to be a lot of changing there happening now.
No official word as of yet as far as moving Mobile's regional airport to BFM, but the chances of it happening are very high. Should it be finally decided to move it, the new terminal will be placed along the waterfront of the airport property. Should be a good move for the city due to the location of BFM. MOB would then be turned into a GA use airport, but personally Im not sure how well thatll work out since its so far to the west of the city.
PNS has two new hangars that are part of Mobile Aerospace, and three more are going to be built there beginning later this year.

I do know that the Mobile Airport Authority posted on Facebook the day before yesterday asking "Where would you like to fly" and to expect a major service announcement sometime next week under the hashtag #FLYBFM

My mother in Mobile always brings up that they're moving the airport to BFM. I've been pretty skeptical over the years since BFM would need a lot of work (terminal building, ramp, associated taxiways, parking, roadway, etc), but when I was in town last month she insisted it was a certainty. As for MOB being GA, aside from the regular flights, there's mostly GA and coast guard there anyways outside of the 25 or so commercial flights a day, so probably won't be much different.On another note, I was a little surprised when I booked a flight to MOB on DL and got on a 738. Normally its an MD88 or one of those cramped OO CR2s. It was a very nice change!

If memory serves, GPT had quite a few AirTran flights back in the day. How is service there now days?

xjetflyer2001 wrote:

I do know that the Mobile Airport Authority posted on Facebook the day before yesterday asking "Where would you like to fly" and to expect a major service announcement sometime next week under the hashtag #FLYBFM

With the low cost terminal at BFM being completed in late April (nicknamed Terminal 1 by MAA), ViaAir will move from MOB to BFM to be at T1 with the new airline being announced next week. I’m thinking it’s either F9 or G4.

Think F9 serves PNS and G4 serves GPT. While either would be great, would either bring in service when both are just 45 mins away from each other? I sure would like to see it.

LAX772LR wrote:

KICT wrote:

If memory serves, GPT had quite a few AirTran flights back in the day. How is service there now days?

WN completely pulled out of any former FL service at GPT.
GPT's service is now limited to Southern/Texas hubs, with the exception of G4 to SFB and SY to MSP.

Like BTR, GPT suffers due to its proximity to MSY. It's less than an hour for residents of either one to drive to New Orleans, which has service to all major hubs, most medium airports, and generally lower prices due to the amount of LoCos.

It's to the point where when MSY officials lobby for international service (for example, the efforts to lure its current LHR and FRA flights), representatives for BTR and GPT usually go with them.

The latter mostly exist for business pax, willing to pay a premium to fly directly into those cities.

FL operated scheduled flights subsidized by the casinos. Today, the casinos charter flights (mostly via SY and G4) but Biloxi is largely repositioned as a drive market.

And Biloxi is 90 minute to two hour drive from MSY airport, depending on the traffic, not less than an hour. I doubt there’s huge leakage to MSY — the number of enplanements seems reasonable for the area, given the proximity to MSY and MOB. Most tourists drive, few fly, to the Gulf beaches.

It'll be interesting to see if the move to BFM works out. It should help traffic a little, though maybe not enough. Plus, the cost of a brand new terminal is likely to mean higher enplanement costs for anyone serving BFM which is never good for a small airport trying to attract service.

Via Air is launching MOB-BHM, however not sure that route will succeed. Not sure how long MOB-SFB is going to last with Via Air cancelling almost 50% of their MOB-SFB flights. It'll be interesting to see who else they can lure to the temporary terminal at BFM. Mobile isn't really the ideal market for F9 or G4, but I could see F9 giving it a try.

Over at PNS, traffic has been strong. F9 announced PHL-PNS which will be 3x weekly starting in May. WN will start daily PNS-DAL starting in April through the summer. This is the first time PNS-DAL has been daily, it's only been flown during the weekends previously. UA will do a seasonal PNS-EWR which starts in June on an E170.

If things hold up, PNS will clear 1,000,000 enplanements in 2019 for the first time in its history.

It will be interesting to see if BFM changes the dynamic for Orange Beach and Gulf Shores as a catchment area versus PNS. In fact, for Baldwin County, Alabama as a whole.

Right now PNS is the closest airport to those beaches. BFM will be about equal in distance and drive time.

In the summer of 2018, my first as an Uber driver, I got quite a few trips from PNS to Orange Beach.

compensateme wrote:

And Biloxi is 90 minute to two hour drive from MSY airport, depending on the traffic, not less than an hour. I doubt there’s huge leakage to MSY — the number of enplanements seems reasonable for the area, given the proximity to MSY and MOB. Most tourists drive, few fly, to the Gulf beaches.

GPT has significant leakage to MSY. Back in 2012, leakage was approximately 36% of the traffic from GPT to MSY. Given that the route offerings out of GPT haven't really changed since then (other than G4 to SFB), it's easy to think those numbers are probably about the same today. The addition of more routes and ULCC service at MSY since 2012 may have even made leakage worse for GPT.

Page 10 of this report from 2012 outlines the amount of leakage to some of the big markets. http://www.airlineinfo.com/ostpdf84/819.pdf

Hoping that the move the BFM will give Mobile the kick start it needs. I get PNS being more popular as its so much closer to the beaches and other interests than MOB is, but with the cruise ship we have and then BFM being right off the highway and time wise bout the same to the beaches et al. hopefully itll change things for us here. Also the airlines are gonna have to keep their fares less than what they currently are at MOB. For some reason they have them set higher than the others for most (not all) flights. That of course is a large reason why people traffic head to the other coastal airports as well,

LAX772LR wrote:

compensateme wrote:

And Biloxi is 90 minute to two hour drive from MSY airport, depending on the traffic, not less than an hour.

Sure, if you're attempting to do so at rush hour and driving 55mph the whole way.

I've driven from Uptown and the Quarter to the Harrison County Fairgrounds more than a hundred times, and it never took remotely close to 2hr, rarely over an hour with typical traffic. Obviously Biloxi is a bit further than Gulfport, but not all GPT users are coming from Biloxi, so.....

compensateme wrote:

I doubt there’s huge leakage to MSY

Your doubt is irrelevant to the reality that it's is a significant feeder to MSY, mostly for LoCo service. That's straight from NOCVB.

The fastest route from GPT to MSY (airport-to-airport) is 87 miles. Given that GPT is west of the population center, most folks are averaging 100 miles. That equates into a 90 minute to 2 hour drive, depending on traffic - and longer if you hit New Orleans area during rush hour.

I have a client in the area, and when I did the fieldwork myself, it was too often so I’d bring my family and house them around Gulfport/Biloxi. I’ve done the drive from various points in the NOLA area many many times. I’m glad you have a lead foot, but for sake of innocent drivers, take it easy on the gas pedal.

NolaMD88fan wrote:

compensateme wrote:

And Biloxi is 90 minute to two hour drive from MSY airport, depending on the traffic, not less than an hour. I doubt there’s huge leakage to MSY — the number of enplanements seems reasonable for the area, given the proximity to MSY and MOB. Most tourists drive, few fly, to the Gulf beaches.

GPT has significant leakage to MSY. Back in 2012, leakage was approximately 36% of the traffic from GPT to MSY. Given that the route offerings out of GPT haven't really changed since then (other than G4 to SFB), it's easy to think those numbers are probably about the same today. The addition of more routes and ULCC service at MSY since 2012 may have even made leakage worse for GPT.

Page 10 of this report from 2012 outlines the amount of leakage to some of the big markets. http://www.airlineinfo.com/ostpdf84/819.pdf

Well, it was a sales pitch for funding and you can see the flaws within the argument immediately — the “extended” service area they’re referring to is going to be closer to MSY or MOB than GPT.

The population center of Biloxi/Gulfport is easily identifable since the surrounding areas are fairly dense. Reality is, GPT is punching above its weight enplanement wise given the population and demographics of the area. That can be attributed to the casino market and military; there’s no doubt there’s some leakage to MSY but the official numbers are exaggerated.

Casino subsidies pushed low fares into the market last decade that stimulated traffic. I wouldn’t expect that to return — they do subsidize select service to invited guests but reality is that post-Katrina, the decline in hotel inventory and gaming space negated the need for these flights. The area’s tourism is growing again, but keeping up with the drive market.

LAX772LR wrote:

compensateme wrote:

Given that GPT is west of the population center

Not really, it's smack in the center of lower Harrison. Even if you're looking at the most eastward-skewed CSA over MSA, it's still barely to the west, without adding all that many more people.

compensateme wrote:

there’s some leakage to MSY but the official numbers are exaggerated.

If you have a corroborative source, I'm sure we'd all be interested to see it and its methods... but what rational person is going to take the proclamations of an anonymous internet nobody over those officially tasked to keep track of such numbers? Let's be real for a minute.

No offense, but I find your comments offensive considering I gave a robust expiation as to why I questioned the “official” numbers. Like you said, let’s be real for a minute... MOB, roughly the same population size as GPT but much more favorable demographics (discretionary income, college education rate, etc.) has significantly fewer enplanements than GPT, and yet we’re insisting GOT is leaking 1/3 of its passengers to MSY? Like In said, the leakage was calculated using a service area well beyond GPT infringing on area MSY and MOB would also claim. But that’s because the conclusion was used to sell for a grant.

Sometimes rational thinking goes a long away. But if you’re from MIssissippi, I understand .

No offense, but I find your comments offensive considering I gave a robust expiation as to why I questioned the “official” numbers. Like you said, let’s be real for a minute... MOB, roughly the same population size as GPT but much more favorable demographics

Pretty sure Mobile has Gulfport beat in all aspects of sizing. By a lot. For the size city we are, we should have much more air traffic than we do. Its just sad we dont

LAX772LR wrote:

compensateme wrote:

No offense, but I find your comments offensive

You seem to be stating that under the assumption that anyone would give a crap

compensateme wrote:

considering I gave a robust expiation as to why I questioned the “official” numbers.

Which, as already mentioned, falls on its face because your questioning does not in any way equate to corroborative evidence, much less proof.

compensateme wrote:

and yet we’re insisting GOT is leaking 1/3 of its passengers to MSY?

"we" aren't insisting; those with actual access to/command of official numbers, are insisting.

compensateme wrote:

Like In said, the leakage was calculated using a service area well beyond GPT infringing on area MSY

In case you aren't aware, that's what airlines do too; they don't restrict their analysis to imaginary lines, and there's plenty of crossover.

compensateme wrote:

Sometimes rational thinking goes a long away. But if you’re from MIssissippi, I understand

Quite frankly, if *that's* the limit of your wit, then you should probably quit while you're ahead.

You can clearly see the flaws in the assumptions used to calculate the “leakage” — an overrstated population/territory, heavy reliance on FL’s performance with zero mention that the flights were heavily subsidized by the casino industry (and mostly non-GPT POS), etc. It really isn’t surprising though — it’s not an objective report, but instead an application for grant money. Almost unquestionably, it was written by a grant writer.

As I mentioned earlier, given its size and demographics, GPT has above-average enplanement levels (driven by casino industry and military). Biloxi is the pure definition of fly over country - GPT is the only airport I’ve ever been to regularly broadcasting Fox News, and it does so all day throughtout its (small) terminal.

KICT wrote:

If memory serves, GPT had quite a few AirTran flights back in the day. How is service there now days?

Yes we did. We had a flight 1901 TPA-GPT and 1902 GPT-TPA we dubbed it the wheel chair express. One flight i worked as gate agent the flight went out with 15 aisle chairs, 45 pax requested wheel chair service and we loaded 10 electric scooter in the front bin of the 717. One stressful days after my shift id non rev on it and come back on the return flight to relax and enjoy a ride in an airliner.

IIRC we only serves GPT from TPA ATL and BWI. Possibly another florida city

Mobile Airport Authority released that there will be a "major" announcement Tuesday at 11:30 central regarding new service at BFM.

I'm betting F9 to DEN and 1 or 2 other cities.

southsky wrote:

Mobile Airport Authority released that there will be a "major" announcement Tuesday at 11:30 central regarding new service at BFM.

I'm betting F9 to DEN and 1 or 2 other cities.

Why F9 though? Seems like an odd market to try out. To me this says G4 - another gulf getaway market to complement their others. Or it could be a letdown and it’ll be ViaAir or something...

I doubt it’s G4.

F9 makes sense. They do a lot of weird stuff already like LFT-DEN. If that can work, MOB-DEN can work.

joeblow10 wrote:

southsky wrote:

Mobile Airport Authority released that there will be a "major" announcement Tuesday at 11:30 central regarding new service at BFM.

I'm betting F9 to DEN and 1 or 2 other cities.

Why F9 though? Seems like an odd market to try out. To me this says G4 - another gulf getaway market to complement their others. Or it could be a letdown and it’ll be ViaAir or something...

G4 is a possibility for sure, but VC is already at MOB and will move over to BFM in April.

southsky wrote:

joeblow10 wrote:

southsky wrote:

Mobile Airport Authority released that there will be a "major" announcement Tuesday at 11:30 central regarding new service at BFM.

I'm betting F9 to DEN and 1 or 2 other cities.

Why F9 though? Seems like an odd market to try out. To me this says G4 - another gulf getaway market to complement their others. Or it could be a letdown and it’ll be ViaAir or something...

G4 is a possibility for sure, but VC is already at MOB and will move over to BFM in April.

Via Air is launching MOB-BHM, but I can't imagine that is the announcement. I don't see MOB having enough leisure appeal to work for G4. F9 would seem a slightly better fit, though still not sure if MOB can support F9.

As shown in the weekly OAG thread, Via is cutting MOB-SFB from 4x weekly back to 2x weekly, which isn't a surprise given how often the flights were cancelled.

G4 is adding TUL-VPS and OMA-VPS (each 2x weekly), so their VPS focus city continues to thrive.

FlyPNS1 wrote:

southsky wrote:

joeblow10 wrote:

Why F9 though? Seems like an odd market to try out. To me this says G4 - another gulf getaway market to complement their others. Or it could be a letdown and it’ll be ViaAir or something...

G4 is a possibility for sure, but VC is already at MOB and will move over to BFM in April.

Via Air is launching MOB-BHM, but I can't imagine that is the announcement. I don't see MOB having enough leisure appeal to work for G4. F9 would seem a slightly better fit, though still not sure if MOB can support F9.

As shown in the weekly OAG thread, Via is cutting MOB-SFB from 4x weekly back to 2x weekly, which isn't a surprise given how often the flights were cancelled.

G4 is adding TUL-VPS and OMA-VPS (each 2x weekly), so their VPS focus city continues to thrive.

The new airline will be at BFM, not MOB. BFM will provide a much better location for the Mobile area. It will certainly bring more people into the catchment area (namely Baldwin county, which largely now make the drive to PNS more often than MOB). I also would not be surprised if this isn't the only new airline announced for BFM this year.

Southwest would be awesome if they chose to come here! Unlikely since they serve PNS and MSY, but it would be great to see the "Southwest effect" take place here in Mobile

I know that this airline isn't expected to take wing for at least two more years, but Moxy's stated business plan seems to be a good fit for either BFM or MOB.

And, there's always Air Gumbo! http://www.airgumbo.com/

SkyVoice wrote:

I know that this airline isn't expected to take wing for at least two more years, but Moxy's stated business plan seems to be a good fit for either BFM or MOB.

And, there's always Air Gumbo! http://www.airgumbo.com/

This is true!! Hopefully this happens! With the Moxy Air deal that is (whatever its official name will be)

SkyVoice wrote:

I know that this airline isn't expected to take wing for at least two more years, but Moxy's stated business plan seems to be a good fit for either BFM or MOB.

And, there's always Air Gumbo! http://www.airgumbo.com/

Moxy would be perfect for BFM, as well, whenever they get started.

The announcement day/time usually is a partial giveaway. Aren't Tuesday morning announcements usually F9 or G4?

Playing around on the Frontier website has BFM searchable but not bookable. As of this hour, the non-stop options are DEN 136 (MWSa) on A320 and ORD 36 (WSa) on A320. Starting 1 May.

DEN-BFM 1438-1820 A320 136
BFM-DEN 1910-2115 A320 136

ORD-BFM 1034-1255 A320 36
BFM-ORD 1345-1619 A320 36

Excellent news for BFM and Mobile...

southsky wrote:

Playing around on the Frontier website has BFM searchable but not bookable. As of this hour, the non-stop options are DEN 136 (MWSa) on A320 and ORD 36 (WSa) on A320. Starting 1 May.

DEN-BFM 1438-1820 A320 136
BFM-DEN 1910-2115 A320 136

ORD-BFM 1034-1255 A320 36
BFM-ORD 1345-1619 A320 36

Excellent news for BFM and Mobile...

Nice find even before the official announcement, I would say that's it since they even have a little graphic of downtown Mobile when you put in BFM, even if you put MOB it defaults to BFM

Excellent news!! Hope this works out! Means theres a 90+% chance the airport will move to BFM

southsky wrote:

Playing around on the Frontier website has BFM searchable but not bookable. As of this hour, the non-stop options are DEN 136 (MWSa) on A320 and ORD 36 (WSa) on A320. Starting 1 May.

DEN-BFM 1438-1820 A320 136
BFM-DEN 1910-2115 A320 136

ORD-BFM 1034-1255 A320 36
BFM-ORD 1345-1619 A320 36

Excellent news for BFM and Mobile...

Sounds about right. It's almost the identical schedule that F9 uses at PNS. It also backfills for UA which quit flying ORD-MOB last year.

It's still odd that Mobile will have two commercial airports for some time since UA/DL/AA can't all possibly fit into the temporary terminal. My guess though is that they might test out to see if VC and F9 can make BFM work before finally building a new terminal at BFM.

FlyPNS1 wrote:

southsky wrote:

Playing around on the Frontier website has BFM searchable but not bookable. As of this hour, the non-stop options are DEN 136 (MWSa) on A320 and ORD 36 (WSa) on A320. Starting 1 May.

DEN-BFM 1438-1820 A320 136
BFM-DEN 1910-2115 A320 136

ORD-BFM 1034-1255 A320 36
BFM-ORD 1345-1619 A320 36

Excellent news for BFM and Mobile...

Sounds about right. It's almost the identical schedule that F9 uses at PNS. It also backfills for UA which quit flying ORD-MOB last year.

It's still odd that Mobile will have two commercial airports for some time since UA/DL/AA can't all possibly fit into the temporary terminal. My guess though is that they might test out to see if VC and F9 can make BFM work before finally building a new terminal at BFM.

Yep, Mobile will oddly have two airports until they finish the new downtown terminal. The Airport Authority is poised to build it, so the legacies will be along for the ride to BFM when they close the current MOB to scheduled passenger traffic.

Curiously, PNS-DEN on F9 looks to be serviced by a 319 during this period. You would think it would be the other way

Happy about our new service!! Its about time!

What are the population numbers for the greater Mobile area?

Frontier 14

Frontier14 wrote:

What are the population numbers for the greater Mobile area?

Frontier 14

Mobile and Baldwin counties (together, the Alabama coast) have around 626,000 people. I think I read there are over 1.2 million people living within 50 miles of Mobile.

2018 Traffic Numbers for PNS (enplane+deplanements): 1,974,338 (+15.8% compared with 2017)
2018 Traffic Numbers for VPS (enplane+deplanements): 1,413,813 (+20.2% compared with 2017)

Both numbers are all-time records for these airports.

Very strong growth for both airports...obviously the effect of having ULCCs (G4 at VPS and F9 at PNS) has helped stimulate a lot of traffic. However, other carriers have seen growth at both, most notably AA which has been aggressively adding destinations at VPS and PNS.

Based on planned 2019 capacity additions for PNS (new daily DAL on WN, EWR on UA, PHL on F9) and for VPS (G4 to a few new destinations), both airports will likely set new records in 2019.

Those are terrific traffic numbers for PNS and VPS! Great news for both...

In new route news, 3M will begin flying from VPS to MCO in May, according to this press release: https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20190211005638/en/Silver-Airways-Outlines-Plans-Start-Daily-Nonstop

More G4 news from VPS:
https://www.allegiantair.com/search/route-announcements-021219

New G4 routes, all seasonal:
VPS-DSM - starts May 16
VPS-LIT - starts May 17
VPS-SHV - starts May 17
VPS-ICT - starts June 5
VPS-RFD - starts June 5
VPS-HTS - starts June 6
VPS-TOL - starts June 7

A few of these G4 routes are a bit surprising....like HTS-VPS. That's a pretty thin route, though if it only runs for a few months in the summer it might work.

It'll be interesting to see if Silver can make VPS work. Presumably they'll do VPS-MCO or VPS-TPA. They previously tried ECP-MCO/TPA and it didn't last long.

PNS-FLL launches today on Silver.

VPS-MCO will start in May on Silver 1x daily. It's a pretty meager offering, but I can see why Silver is cautious. Technically, it will have connectivity with B6 and UA who are Silver codeshare partners.

In other news, UA will expand the PNS-DEN service to be Saturday/Sunday throughout the summer using an E175. UA also loaded a Saturday-only PNS-ORD on an A319 in the summer as was flown last year. This is the only mainline UA service to PNS. All other flights on PNS-ORD are still using ERJ/CRJ.

FlyPNS1 wrote:

VPS-MCO will start in May on Silver 1x daily. It's a pretty meager offering, but I can see why Silver is cautious. Technically, it will have connectivity with B6 and UA who are Silver codeshare partners.

In other news, UA will expand the PNS-DEN service to be Saturday/Sunday throughout the summer using an E175. UA also loaded a Saturday-only PNS-ORD on an A319 in the summer as was flown last year. This is the only mainline UA service to PNS. All other flights on PNS-ORD are still using ERJ/CRJ.

Silver just opened DAB with 1x daily. Also meager, but these are small stations that are driving distance from larger stations so it makes sense to proceed with caution.

Sun Country announced two new routes from GPT today:
https://www.suncountry.com/About/News/2019-02-25.html

GPT-AUS and GPT-RSW, both at 2x weekly. Very interesting adds! Both start in July,

Those are some odd additions, but best of luck to them. At only 2x weekly, I guess they might work.

I'd always thought SY could make MSP-PNS or MSP-VPS work on a 3-4 weekly basis.

Nice additions for GPT. The RSW flight should do well since it will likely draw in people from the Northshore suburbs of New Orleans.

southsky wrote:

Sun Country announced two new routes from GPT today:
https://www.suncountry.com/About/News/2019-02-25.html

GPT-AUS and GPT-RSW, both at 2x weekly. Very interesting adds! Both start in July,

Looks like you can connect VIA GPT from AUS-RSW and vice versa on certain days. Should help with the route as well.