Blerg
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TK crew robbed in South Africa

Sat Jan 19, 2019 4:36 pm

Quite unfortunate. This reminds me of the TK crew kidnapping in Beirut some years ago.

Since their minibus was blocked by a car, maybe they were targeted on purpose?

Hope these guys are arrested but... wouldn't hold my breath.

According to the article, the chief pilot was battered during the incident.

Source: https://www.dailysabah.com/turkey/2019/ ... hannesburg
 
MalevTU134
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Re: TK crew robbed in South Africa

Sat Jan 19, 2019 4:50 pm

This - and worse - can happen at dozens of destinations TK flies to. Unfortunately, this is the reality in dozens and dozens of countries in the world. They had bad luck, but all ended well in the end.
 
Blerg
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Re: TK crew robbed in South Africa

Sat Jan 19, 2019 4:54 pm

MalevTU134 wrote:
This - and worse - can happen at dozens of destinations TK flies to. Unfortunately, this is the reality in dozens and dozens of countries in the world. They had bad luck, but all ended well in the end.


Yes but I am sure that in most of these 'dangerous' destinations they don't leave the hotel, I believe Nigeria is one of them. Unfortunately it seems that South Africa might be added to the list soon.
 
aldrigsomandre
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Re: TK crew robbed in South Africa

Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:01 pm

Central Joburg was super super dangerous regardless of it being in some sort of "list". Even as tourists in Joburg, people are frequently warned not to wear expensive jewelry or flaunt their phones around etc. This is very common in South Africa. One needs to be really careful.
 
jb1087xna
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Re: TK crew robbed in South Africa

Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:11 pm

MalevTU134 wrote:
This - and worse - can happen at dozens of destinations TK flies to. Unfortunately, this is the reality in dozens and dozens of countries in the world. They had bad luck, but all ended well in the end.


"All ended well" is relative...when they got robbed and someone was apparently physically assaulted.

My assumption is that DL (the only of the US3 flying to JNB), has relatively strict rules for any layovers internationally.
Next up: XNA-ATL-PWM-ATL-XNA
 
MalevTU134
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Re: TK crew robbed in South Africa

Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:14 pm

jb1087xna wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
This - and worse - can happen at dozens of destinations TK flies to. Unfortunately, this is the reality in dozens and dozens of countries in the world. They had bad luck, but all ended well in the end.


"All ended well" is relative...when they got robbed and someone was apparently physically assaulted.

My assumption is that DL (the only of the US3 flying to JNB), has relatively strict rules for any layovers internationally.

Absolutely, it is relative. In a South African context, walking away alive is definitely to be considered a good ending.
 
Atlwarrior
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Re: TK crew robbed in South Africa

Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:23 pm

This really could have happen in any large international city.
 
MalevTU134
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Re: TK crew robbed in South Africa

Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:31 pm

Atlwarrior wrote:
This really could have happen in any large international city.

Highly unlikely in Europe
 
Flaps
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Re: TK crew robbed in South Africa

Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:43 pm

MalevTU134 wrote:
Atlwarrior wrote:
This really could have happen in any large international city.

Highly unlikely in Europe

Highly unlikely in Canada, the US or most of Asia for that matter either.
 
peterinlisbon
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Re: TK crew robbed in South Africa

Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:45 pm

In Istanbul, it always surprises me to see people walking around on busy forms of public transport with expensive mobile telephones or their wallets poking out of their back pockets because you certainly wouldn't do that in London (at least, you wouldn't do it twice). In Turkey, crowded places are safe because other people would definitely intervene if they saw anything happen (unlike many places in the world, where other people don't seem to care) but I wonder if this gives Turkish people a false sense of security when they are in busy areas abroad.
 
tapairbus370
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Re: TK crew robbed in South Africa

Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:48 pm

MalevTU134 wrote:
Atlwarrior wrote:
This really could have happen in any large international city.

Highly unlikely in Europe


Agreed with MalevTU134, It could happen, yes, anywhere around the world but highly unlikely in some (few) european countries and close to zero chance in most european countries.
 
Ziyulu
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Re: TK crew robbed in South Africa

Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:54 pm

If it was an iPhone that was stolen, would they be able to track it using the "Find my iPhone" feature?
 
MalevTU134
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Re: TK crew robbed in South Africa

Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:03 pm

Ziyulu wrote:
If it was an iPhone that was stolen, would they be able to track it using the "Find my iPhone" feature?

And then what? Would they go after it to a township?....
 
SAAFNAV
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Re: TK crew robbed in South Africa

Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:03 pm

Blerg wrote:
Since their minibus was blocked by a car, maybe they were targeted on purpose?


As a South African, I can tell you that, while it is possible that they were targeted, it is also very likely and standard procedure to rob vehicles in that way.

Nothing like a SUV blocking your way and 4 dudes with AK's demanding your car. (And I'm not exaggerating, you can find countless CCTV videos of that). Glad they got away _mostly_ unharmed, but TIA.
L-382 Loadmaster; ex C-130B Navigator
 
Judge1310
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Re: TK crew robbed in South Africa

Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:30 pm

Here's that part that gets me about the potential "slant"of this post by the OP: why is the title, necessarily 'South Africa'? It could have been just as easy (and more specific) to say Johannesburg. I say this based on two points:
1) That would be like a crew getting robbed in Los Angeles, Detroit, Miami, etc and saying 'TK crew robbed in America'; such a title is incredibly vague and potentially paints the entire country as culpable
2) OP then goes on to specify, in the *first* line of the post of a crew incident in Beirut. Not Lebanon, but the actual city in which the event occured.

For a moment I was wondering whether this happened in Cape Town, Jo'Burg, Durban... And then to continue in their next post to reference Nigeria as a whole...so are we talking Lagos, Kano, Abuja?

Just be careful with painting an entire country with broad strokes--aviation professionals know better than to act in such a way, that's all.
 
SCQ83
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Re: TK crew robbed in South Africa

Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:31 pm

Another failed state, like Mexico in the other thread. Now SAA can make a TV spot about how wonderful and cool Cape Town is.

peterinlisbon wrote:
In Istanbul, it always surprises me to see people walking around on busy forms of public transport with expensive mobile telephones or their wallets poking out of their back pockets because you certainly wouldn't do that in London (at least, you wouldn't do it twice). In Turkey, crowded places are safe because other people would definitely intervene if they saw anything happen (unlike many places in the world, where other people don't seem to care) but I wonder if this gives Turkish people a false sense of security when they are in busy areas abroad.


Where in London do you travel? I travel all the time to London and while definitely not a fan of the city (and certainly one of the unsafest cities in Europe - see knife crime -), you see people everywhere with "expensive mobile telephones", particularly in buses or the subway. Just to start because pretty much everybody in London (including criminals) will have some sort of relatively new iPhone or similar high-end Android phone; so really wearing one doesn't make you a target. Please...
 
sonicruiser
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Re: TK crew robbed in South Africa

Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:39 pm

Was this in Hillbrow by any chance?
 
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XLA2008
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Re: TK crew robbed in South Africa

Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:46 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
Another failed state, like Mexico in the other thread. Now SAA can make a TV spot about how wonderful and cool Cape Town is.

peterinlisbon wrote:
In Istanbul, it always surprises me to see people walking around on busy forms of public transport with expensive mobile telephones or their wallets poking out of their back pockets because you certainly wouldn't do that in London (at least, you wouldn't do it twice). In Turkey, crowded places are safe because other people would definitely intervene if they saw anything happen (unlike many places in the world, where other people don't seem to care) but I wonder if this gives Turkish people a false sense of security when they are in busy areas abroad.


Where in London do you travel? I travel all the time to London and while definitely not a fan of the city (and certainly one of the unsafest cities in Europe - see knife crime -), you see people everywhere with "expensive mobile telephones", particularly in buses or the subway. Just to start because pretty much everybody in London (including criminals) will have some sort of relatively new iPhone or similar high-end Android phone; so really wearing one doesn't make you a target. Please...


I grew up in a London, used the bus network and the underground and above ground train system, never had ANY problems, not to say people don’t, but I certainly never did, always wore what I wanted and carried the latest phone! And FYI London isn’t even in the top 10 of unsafest cities in Europe! And knife crime is usually isolated to certain suburbs and areas of London! So I’d do your research better before throwing out stupid accusations like that.
“For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return.“
 
Flightguy123
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Re: TK crew robbed in South Africa

Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:54 pm

jb1087xna wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
This - and worse - can happen at dozens of destinations TK flies to. Unfortunately, this is the reality in dozens and dozens of countries in the world. They had bad luck, but all ended well in the end.


"All ended well" is relative...when they got robbed and someone was apparently physically assaulted.

My assumption is that DL (the only of the US3 flying to JNB), has relatively strict rules for any layovers internationally.


The DL rules for the layover in JNB are relaxed. More an advisory to not walk around alone at night and to stick to shopping centers or tourist areas during the day in a group.
 
Blerg
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Re: TK crew robbed in South Africa

Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:58 pm

Judge1310 wrote:
Here's that part that gets me about the potential "slant"of this post by the OP: why is the title, necessarily 'South Africa'? It could have been just as easy (and more specific) to say Johannesburg. I say this based on two points:
1) That would be like a crew getting robbed in Los Angeles, Detroit, Miami, etc and saying 'TK crew robbed in America'; such a title is incredibly vague and potentially paints the entire country as culpable
2) OP then goes on to specify, in the *first* line of the post of a crew incident in Beirut. Not Lebanon, but the actual city in which the event occured.

For a moment I was wondering whether this happened in Cape Town, Jo'Burg, Durban... And then to continue in their next post to reference Nigeria as a whole...so are we talking Lagos, Kano, Abuja?

Just be careful with painting an entire country with broad strokes--aviation professionals know better than to act in such a way, that's all.


There is no slant here, you are just looking for a cause to launch a Crusade against... were they not in South Africa when this happened? Yes, they were so the title is highly appropriate. There is no doubt that South Africa is becoming increasingly unsafe, especially if you are white.
 
Judge1310
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Re: TK crew robbed in South Africa

Sat Jan 19, 2019 7:09 pm

Blerg wrote:
Judge1310 wrote:
Here's that part that gets me about the potential "slant"of this post by the OP: why is the title, necessarily 'South Africa'? It could have been just as easy (and more specific) to say Johannesburg. I say this based on two points:
1) That would be like a crew getting robbed in Los Angeles, Detroit, Miami, etc and saying 'TK crew robbed in America'; such a title is incredibly vague and potentially paints the entire country as culpable
2) OP then goes on to specify, in the *first* line of the post of a crew incident in Beirut. Not Lebanon, but the actual city in which the event occured.

For a moment I was wondering whether this happened in Cape Town, Jo'Burg, Durban... And then to continue in their next post to reference Nigeria as a whole...so are we talking Lagos, Kano, Abuja?

Just be careful with painting an entire country with broad strokes--aviation professionals know better than to act in such a way, that's all.


There is no slant here, you are just looking for a cause to launch a Crusade against... were they not in South Africa when this happened? Yes, they were so the title is highly appropriate. There is no doubt that South Africa is becoming increasingly unsafe, especially if you are white.


Did you not ready the entirety of what I posted? Probably doesn't matter to you as your final subordinate clause indicates your point of view.
And "..looking for a cause to launch a Crusade [sic] against.."? Laughable as I'm far too busy dealing with *actual* airline business to worry about such things. My post was meant as an advisory that certain cause célèbre will be aptly pointed out for explanation.
 
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jsnww81
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Re: TK crew robbed in South Africa

Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:03 pm

sonicruiser wrote:
Was this in Hillbrow by any chance?


I'm guessing not - can't think of any reason for a flight crew to be in Hillbrow as there are no reputable hotels there anymore and just about everyone in Joburg will tell foreigners to avoid the area. A shame as it was the city's most vibrant neighborhood in the 1970s and 1980s. It's better today than it was 10-15 years ago but it's still a sad shadow of what it used to be...
 
emiratesdriver
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Re: TK crew robbed in South Africa

Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:26 pm

The continuing descent of SA back to the Stone Age.
 
CobaltScar
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Re: TK crew robbed in South Africa

Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:27 pm

Atlwarrior wrote:
This really could have happen in any large international city.



It could really happen in any village, town, city , rural fishing camp, trailer park, high rise luxury tower lobby, crack den, Beverly Hills gated community, etc.


But it happens way more often in crime infested and corrupt countries. People that walk blindly into the den of lions and hum to themselves "well lions could theoretically rip my throat out anywhere!!" deserve to be eaten.

But thanks for being PC, your virtue is noted.

The United crews would have armed escorts to their fortress/hotel in Lagos when they still flew there. In the Dominican Republic, the van drivers don't dare to stop completely at red lights after a certain hour. Makes one appreciate one's home.
 
GBNWB
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Re: TK crew robbed in South Africa

Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:33 pm

peterinlisbon wrote:
In Istanbul, it always surprises me to see people walking around on busy forms of public transport with expensive mobile telephones or their wallets poking out of their back pockets because you certainly wouldn't do that in London (at least, you wouldn't do it twice). In Turkey, crowded places are safe because other people would definitely intervene if they saw anything happen (unlike many places in the world, where other people don't seem to care) but I wonder if this gives Turkish people a false sense of security when they are in busy areas abroad.



Complete and total nonsense. Whilst certain parts of the capital have gangs that enjoy stabbing each other, these are not places visitors or normal Londoners would go to. It would be foolish to have a wallet stuck out of your back pocket in any city in the world, including London.

You speak as if it's likely you will be robbed or stabbed on the Underground!
 
Blerg
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Re: TK crew robbed in South Africa

Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:44 pm

Judge1310 wrote:
Blerg wrote:
Judge1310 wrote:
Here's that part that gets me about the potential "slant"of this post by the OP: why is the title, necessarily 'South Africa'? It could have been just as easy (and more specific) to say Johannesburg. I say this based on two points:
1) That would be like a crew getting robbed in Los Angeles, Detroit, Miami, etc and saying 'TK crew robbed in America'; such a title is incredibly vague and potentially paints the entire country as culpable
2) OP then goes on to specify, in the *first* line of the post of a crew incident in Beirut. Not Lebanon, but the actual city in which the event occured.

For a moment I was wondering whether this happened in Cape Town, Jo'Burg, Durban... And then to continue in their next post to reference Nigeria as a whole...so are we talking Lagos, Kano, Abuja?

Just be careful with painting an entire country with broad strokes--aviation professionals know better than to act in such a way, that's all.


There is no slant here, you are just looking for a cause to launch a Crusade against... were they not in South Africa when this happened? Yes, they were so the title is highly appropriate. There is no doubt that South Africa is becoming increasingly unsafe, especially if you are white.


Did you not ready the entirety of what I posted? Probably doesn't matter to you as your final subordinate clause indicates your point of view.
And "..looking for a cause to launch a Crusade [sic] against.."? Laughable as I'm far too busy dealing with *actual* airline business to worry about such things. My post was meant as an advisory that certain cause célèbre will be aptly pointed out for explanation.


Whatever you were trying to say was extremely pointless and had little to do with the topic we are discussing.
 
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OA260
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Re: TK crew robbed in South Africa

Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:46 pm

peterinlisbon wrote:
In Istanbul, it always surprises me to see people walking around on busy forms of public transport with expensive mobile telephones or their wallets poking out of their back pockets because you certainly wouldn't do that in London (at least, you wouldn't do it twice). In Turkey, crowded places are safe because other people would definitely intervene if they saw anything happen (unlike many places in the world, where other people don't seem to care) but I wonder if this gives Turkish people a false sense of security when they are in busy areas abroad.



You need to be street wise in ALL cities worldwide. Istanbul is no safer then London. I have been on the airport train from Istanbul to Airport and after a few stops a women found that her phone and purse had been stolen. In London I see lots of people with their phones be it on the Tube or bus or walking. Its not that dangerous in London. The most concerning thing in London in recent times is this black on black knife crime.
 
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RWA380
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Re: TK crew robbed in South Africa

Sat Jan 19, 2019 9:45 pm

OA260 got it. You need to be wise to where you are going & follow all guidelines unless you are personally familiar or are traveling with someone who is familiar with the local trends & potentially worrisome areas.

In this case, I doubt there was anything this crew did to invite the violence. My family is from South Africa, my cousin is a Vice President (retired) of Standard Bank. Her home is a fortress & has been for decades, she had my Aunty & her son living with her.

Reinforced town cars, with professional defensive & tactile drivers, routinely pick them up & take them anywhere off the property, the same company that serves Standard Bank.

There are 12 foot high fences surrounding her property, a state of the art monitoring station & extra razor wire across the top. There is armed security on her property 24/7, Bars on each window & skylight, motion sensors, bullet proof glass, it’s not nice, but nesissary.

South Africa can be dangerous & unpredictable, while some areas surely see more activity than others, it’s still a countrywide problem, there are people there, that don’t have any value for human life & will trade someone’s else’s for a piece of jewelry or your wallet.
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aviationaware
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Re: TK crew robbed in South Africa

Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:17 pm

Atlwarrior wrote:
This really could have happen in any large international city.


Just that this happens multiple times per day in South African cities and almost never in most other large international cities. A random holdup in the streets like this is pretty much only imaginable in Africa and Latin America.
 
a350lover
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Re: TK crew robbed in South Africa

Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:31 pm

This can happen pretty much happen to you in every side of the world. The main difference probably is the level of harassment and violence displayed in South Africa. While in Europe, the States and many places of Asia it is highly unlikely that someone kills anyone for just an iPhone, in some parts of Africa and South America this has happened. I don't wanna make any statement from any kind of "citizen of the developed World talking to the undeveloped World" perspctive, because I understand this comes from criminals, and they are all over the World. However, the levels of criminality in areas like JNB are pretty tough.

Said that, the article states here the crew was returning to their hotel (can I assume they stay nearby the airport?) from dinner in the city. I'd like to rise a common problem for many crews. The amount of nights, and time spent out of home is tremendous, and these days most airlines just leave their crews in the airport areas. This provokes often lack of "disconnection" from the aviation (many times they get noise coming from the normal operation at the airport), and talking about what this issue is about lack of security also. These areas do not offer any sort of open public safe areas to wind down, walk or get away for anything like dinner, and this is general, I am not only saying this happen in S.Africa cause airport hoods are often creepy all over the World. Crews often get sick of hotel food, and eventually need to travel (for safety reasons with a taxi always, of course) to the city. It should be included in "crew´s layover rules and regulations agreements" that they stay in an independent area of the airport, urban, surrounded by some sort of basic recreational services.

I of course see the point in staying nearby the airport. Easy access, little (if any) travel time to the airport, unexpensive accommodation...
Last edited by a350lover on Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
MeCe
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Re: TK crew robbed in South Africa

Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:35 pm

Atlwarrior wrote:
This really could have happen in any large international city.


Pick pocketing or just picking e.g. when you left your phone on desk someone quickly grab it- can happen anywhere. But blocking your transport with another car and using force rob you, no it is not common as you think.
 
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readytotaxi
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Re: TK crew robbed in South Africa

Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:51 pm

My Cape Town friends say that while not prefect they do feel safer than when they visit Joburg.
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peterinlisbon
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Re: TK crew robbed in South Africa

Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:09 pm

Wow, I can't believe that people are getting so upset because I said that it's not a good idea to put your smartphone in your back pocket on a crowded tube train in London. OK, do it and see what happens!
 
KingOrGod
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Re: TK crew robbed in South Africa

Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:53 pm

Judge1310 wrote:
Here's that part that gets me about the potential "slant"of this post by the OP: why is the title, necessarily 'South Africa'? It could have been just as easy (and more specific) to say Johannesburg. I say this based on two points:
1) That would be like a crew getting robbed in Los Angeles, Detroit, Miami, etc and saying 'TK crew robbed in America'; such a title is incredibly vague and potentially paints the entire country as culpable
2) OP then goes on to specify, in the *first* line of the post of a crew incident in Beirut. Not Lebanon, but the actual city in which the event occured.

For a moment I was wondering whether this happened in Cape Town, Jo'Burg, Durban... And then to continue in their next post to reference Nigeria as a whole...so are we talking Lagos, Kano, Abuja?

Just be careful with painting an entire country with broad strokes--aviation professionals know better than to act in such a way, that's all.


Wtf? Slant? Have you actually even been there, and I'm not talking cushy 5* hotel visits? Actually living in the prisons we build and call "home"?

I lived 30+ years there, and it's (Johannesburg) is mostly a corrupt criminal cesspit. Anybody with a rolex on and flaunting it along with a mobile in the CBD is just plain stupid - there are scouts everywhere and they might look stupid but they are not. They can arrange robberies real fast. Just got to your local bank and withdraw R100k in cash and see if you make it home alive. I dare you :)

The crew are very lucky to still be breathing. Life has become worthless in SA. I know a family who's father was murdered for his bicycle. I have been robbed at a red light. The bollocks that this can happen in any major city is utter garbage. How often are you held up by a gang with AK47 assault rifles in New York, or London, or Frankfurt? Yes pickpocketing and muggings at knifepoint in London is on the rise. But that's hardly what happened here?
 
MalevTU134
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Re: TK crew robbed in South Africa

Sun Jan 20, 2019 12:06 am

KingOrGod wrote:
Judge1310 wrote:
Here's that part that gets me about the potential "slant"of this post by the OP: why is the title, necessarily 'South Africa'? It could have been just as easy (and more specific) to say Johannesburg. I say this based on two points:
1) That would be like a crew getting robbed in Los Angeles, Detroit, Miami, etc and saying 'TK crew robbed in America'; such a title is incredibly vague and potentially paints the entire country as culpable
2) OP then goes on to specify, in the *first* line of the post of a crew incident in Beirut. Not Lebanon, but the actual city in which the event occured.

For a moment I was wondering whether this happened in Cape Town, Jo'Burg, Durban... And then to continue in their next post to reference Nigeria as a whole...so are we talking Lagos, Kano, Abuja?

Just be careful with painting an entire country with broad strokes--aviation professionals know better than to act in such a way, that's all.


Wtf? Slant? Have you actually even been there, and I'm not talking cushy 5* hotel visits? Actually living in the prisons we build and call "home"?

I lived 30+ years there, and it's (Johannesburg) is mostly a corrupt criminal cesspit. Anybody with a rolex on and flaunting it along with a mobile in the CBD is just plain stupid - there are scouts everywhere and they might look stupid but they are not. They can arrange robberies real fast. Just got to your local bank and withdraw R100k in cash and see if you make it home alive. I dare you :)

The crew are very lucky to still be breathing. Life has become worthless in SA. I know a family who's father was murdered for his bicycle. I have been robbed at a red light. The bollocks that this can happen in any major city is utter garbage. How often are you held up by a gang with AK47 assault rifles in New York, or London, or Frankfurt? Yes pickpocketing and muggings at knifepoint in London is on the rise. But that's hardly what happened here?

Totally agree, well said.
What you say is true about Latin America as well. I know people there who have been robbed of their shoes and socks (the ones they were wearing), many who have been robbed at gunpoint, I have friends there whose fathers, husband or brother was killed during robberies, and me myself have been kidnapped there. Even though I lived most of my life in Europe, I don't know a single person here whose next of kin has been murdered, nor who has been robbed at gunpoint, nor been kidnapped. It simply practically doesn't happen here.

Anyway, happy the crew us OK, and I hope TK doesn't lock them up at their hotel because of this in the future, cause Johannesburg and Pretoria are great cities to visit!
 
9252fly
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Re: TK crew robbed in South Africa

Sun Jan 20, 2019 12:53 am

[quote="MalevTU134"

Anyway, happy the crew us OK, and I hope TK doesn't lock them up at their hotel because of this in the future, cause Johannesburg and Pretoria are great cities to visit![/quote]

I would say your sentence sums up the thread and maybe it's time to put it to bed. I've traveled extensively around South Africa,in and around Johannesburg. It can be reasonably safe with a little common sense;"When in Rome, do as the Romans", then again common sense is not common. I don't believe this incident was random, some planning went into selecting the victims (not necessarily because they were aircrew) and executing the plan. On any given day,dozens of aircrews have had layovers in JNB for decades and this may be the first incident of this kind there.
 
LH658
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Re: TK crew robbed in South Africa

Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:03 am

TK crew stays in Pakistan, and never gets robbed... You guys always talk about security in any thread concerning Pakistan.

Crime can happen anywhere, yes some places it more expected than others, and etc. Though this incidents can show crime can happen anywhere at anytime.
 
MalevTU134
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Re: TK crew robbed in South Africa

Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:11 am

LH658 wrote:
TK crew stays in Pakistan, and never gets robbed... You guys always talk about security in any thread concerning Pakistan.

Crime can happen anywhere, yes some places it more expected than others, and etc. Though this incidents can show crime can happen anywhere at anytime.

I am not sure why you come on here just in order to pretend something that isn't...
You know very well that the problem (perceived or real, I cannot tell, I have never had the pleasure to visit your country) in Pakistan is not robbery or crime in general but terrorism. The fear is that airline crew be targeted by terrorists as a high profile target. As some poster said, this TK crew in JNB was probably not targeted for being airline crew, but rather just happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time.
 
senatorflyer
Posts: 323
Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:57 am

Re: TK crew robbed in South Africa

Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:27 am

SCQ83 wrote:
Another failed state, like Mexico in the other thread. Now SAA can make a TV spot about how wonderful and cool Cape Town is.

peterinlisbon wrote:
In Istanbul, it always surprises me to see people walking around on busy forms of public transport with expensive mobile telephones or their wallets poking out of their back pockets because you certainly wouldn't do that in London (at least, you wouldn't do it twice). In Turkey, crowded places are safe because other people would definitely intervene if they saw anything happen (unlike many places in the world, where other people don't seem to care) but I wonder if this gives Turkish people a false sense of security when they are in busy areas abroad.


Where in London do you travel? I travel all the time to London and while definitely not a fan of the city (and certainly one of the unsafest cities in Europe - see knife crime -), you see people everywhere with "expensive mobile telephones", particularly in buses or the subway. Just to start because pretty much everybody in London (including criminals) will have some sort of relatively new iPhone or similar high-end Android phone; so really wearing one doesn't make you a target. Please...


Huh??? London one of the unsafest cities in Europe? You need to get out more in Europe it seems lol
 
travaz
Posts: 853
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2001 1:03 am

Re: TK crew robbed in South Africa

Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:33 am

It sounds like it could have been random and maybe they were targeted because of the vehicle they were in. I traveled often to some not too nice places in asia in the 90's. Most of the bad places were in the Philippines and other countries. We had formal training on self security. The thing I never forgot was no matter where your are there are 3 conditions. Green= sitting on the couch with the wife with all the doors locked. Yellow= being very aware of the people and situations going on around you. Red= is get the heck out of there. It is amazing to me how so many people on the tube or anywhere else have no idea about what is happening around them. They just have no idea of basic security. You must remain aware of all the situations around you. If someone wants to to do some crime they will pick someone else if they see you paying attention to the situation.
 
maverick4002
Posts: 105
Joined: Sun Jul 12, 2015 2:14 pm

Re: TK crew robbed in South Africa

Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:47 am

There is no doubt that South Africa is becoming increasingly unsafe, especially if you are white.[/quote]

:o :o :o :o :o :o :o
 
aviationaware
Posts: 2812
Joined: Mon May 19, 2014 12:02 pm

Re: TK crew robbed in South Africa

Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:48 am

LH658 wrote:
TK crew stays in Pakistan, and never gets robbed... You guys always talk about security in any thread concerning Pakistan.

Crime can happen anywhere, yes some places it more expected than others, and etc. Though this incidents can show crime can happen anywhere at anytime.


Security concerns in Pakistan are not about robbery, they are about hostage situations and random bomb explosions happening.

A professional holdup like this one basically only happens in South Africa and Brazil. It's pretty much unthinkable anywhere else. They do happen in Mexico as well, but they are much less random there as the drug gangs have specific targets and those are not airline crews.
 
MalevTU134
Posts: 2114
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:04 pm

Re: TK crew robbed in South Africa

Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:54 am

aviationaware wrote:
LH658 wrote:
TK crew stays in Pakistan, and never gets robbed... You guys always talk about security in any thread concerning Pakistan.

Crime can happen anywhere, yes some places it more expected than others, and etc. Though this incidents can show crime can happen anywhere at anytime.


Security concerns in Pakistan are not about robbery, they are about hostage situations and random bomb explosions happening.

A professional holdup like this one basically only happens in South Africa and Brazil. It's pretty much unthinkable anywhere else. They do happen in Mexico as well, but they are much less random there as the drug gangs have specific targets and those are not airline crews.

There are quite a few other countries in Latin America where it is prevalent as well...but, yeah, you are right in principle.
 
User avatar
aemoreira1981
Posts: 2824
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:17 am

Re: TK crew robbed in South Africa

Sun Jan 20, 2019 2:15 am

Atlwarrior wrote:
This really could have happen in any large international city.


Not really. South Africa is something else. What are the policies of other international carriers who fly to JNB or CPT? (Aside from this, I'm surprised that LY is still flying to and from JNB.)
 
TheKennady2
Posts: 130
Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2018 3:09 pm

Re: TK crew robbed in South Africa

Sun Jan 20, 2019 2:37 am

Its south Africa, what else do you expect?
 
QueenoftheSkies
Posts: 209
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2017 4:48 am

Re: TK crew robbed in South Africa

Sun Jan 20, 2019 3:22 am

senatorflyer wrote:
SCQ83 wrote:
Another failed state, like Mexico in the other thread. Now SAA can make a TV spot about how wonderful and cool Cape Town is.

peterinlisbon wrote:
In Istanbul, it always surprises me to see people walking around on busy forms of public transport with expensive mobile telephones or their wallets poking out of their back pockets because you certainly wouldn't do that in London (at least, you wouldn't do it twice). In Turkey, crowded places are safe because other people would definitely intervene if they saw anything happen (unlike many places in the world, where other people don't seem to care) but I wonder if this gives Turkish people a false sense of security when they are in busy areas abroad.


Where in London do you travel? I travel all the time to London and while definitely not a fan of the city (and certainly one of the unsafest cities in Europe - see knife crime -), you see people everywhere with "expensive mobile telephones", particularly in buses or the subway. Just to start because pretty much everybody in London (including criminals) will have some sort of relatively new iPhone or similar high-end Android phone; so really wearing one doesn't make you a target. Please...


Huh??? London one of the unsafest cities in Europe? You need to get out more in Europe it seems lol


While on a layover in London, myself and 4 colleagues were attacked in London. And they didn’t steal anything, it was just to do it. So yes this happens in London too. The point is, things like this can happen anywhere.....some cities more so than others.
 
LH658
Posts: 1049
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2016 7:35 am

Re: TK crew robbed in South Africa

Sun Jan 20, 2019 3:46 am

MalevTU134 wrote:
LH658 wrote:
TK crew stays in Pakistan, and never gets robbed... You guys always talk about security in any thread concerning Pakistan.

Crime can happen anywhere, yes some places it more expected than others, and etc. Though this incidents can show crime can happen anywhere at anytime.

I am not sure why you come on here just in order to pretend something that isn't...
You know very well that the problem (perceived or real, I cannot tell, I have never had the pleasure to visit your country) in Pakistan is not robbery or crime in general but terrorism. The fear is that airline crew be targeted by terrorists as a high profile target. As some poster said, this TK crew in JNB was probably not targeted for being airline crew, but rather just happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time.


Well robbery does happen in Pakistan, and it is a issue with even overseas Pakistani who aren't street smart. When visiting such foreign country whether it South Africa, Pakistan, India, Romania, USA, and etc most likely your being watch or monitored by organized crime groups. Such crimes happen in states too. Though yea CNN not really gunna report about robbing that happened in Karachi.
 
MaksFly
Posts: 341
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2016 5:50 am

Re: TK crew robbed in South Africa

Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:36 am

MeCe wrote:
Atlwarrior wrote:
This really could have happen in any large international city.


Pick pocketing or just picking e.g. when you left your phone on desk someone quickly grab it- can happen anywhere. But blocking your transport with another car and using force rob you, no it is not common as you think.


Spot on.

Visiting ANY city you have to be street smart... that will essentially protect you from petty crime.

Not even in ghettos however, i.e. Camden, Newark, do you expect to get road blocked and have guys surround your vehicle with guns to simply rob you. Very very seldom, and not really in broad daylight.

What is happening in South Africa is really appaling.

Heck, is Baghdad, Iraq safer now?

And my friend was beat up and robbed, TWICE IN ONE DAY in 2017 in Johannesburg.
 
BoeingGuy
Posts: 6313
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:01 pm

Re: TK crew robbed in South Africa

Sun Jan 20, 2019 6:11 am

I think I’ll stick to South America, except Venezuela and Brazil. I was just in Colombia and it felt like one of the safest countries I’ve ever been in.

I didn’t have any incidents in South Africa but I felt far less safe than most places I’ve been like Colombia, Nepal, Laos or Burma. Too bad because SA is a beautiful country.
 
Judge1310
Posts: 340
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:55 pm

Re: TK crew robbed in South Africa

Sun Jan 20, 2019 6:29 am

KingOrGod wrote:
Judge1310 wrote:
Here's that part that gets me about the potential "slant"of this post by the OP: why is the title, necessarily 'South Africa'? It could have been just as easy (and more specific) to say Johannesburg. I say this based on two points:
1) That would be like a crew getting robbed in Los Angeles, Detroit, Miami, etc and saying 'TK crew robbed in America'; such a title is incredibly vague and potentially paints the entire country as culpable
2) OP then goes on to specify, in the *first* line of the post of a crew incident in Beirut. Not Lebanon, but the actual city in which the event occured.

For a moment I was wondering whether this happened in Cape Town, Jo'Burg, Durban... And then to continue in their next post to reference Nigeria as a whole...so are we talking Lagos, Kano, Abuja?

Just be careful with painting an entire country with broad strokes--aviation professionals know better than to act in such a way, that's all.


Wtf? Slant? Have you actually even been there, and I'm not talking cushy 5* hotel visits? Actually living in the prisons we build and call "home"?

I lived 30+ years there, and it's (Johannesburg) is mostly a corrupt criminal cesspit. Anybody with a rolex on and flaunting it along with a mobile in the CBD is just plain stupid - there are scouts everywhere and they might look stupid but they are not. They can arrange robberies real fast. Just got to your local bank and withdraw R100k in cash and see if you make it home alive. I dare you :)

The crew are very lucky to still be breathing. Life has become worthless in SA. I know a family who's father was murdered for his bicycle. I have been robbed at a red light. The bollocks that this can happen in any major city is utter garbage. How often are you held up by a gang with AK47 assault rifles in New York, or London, or Frankfurt? Yes pickpocketing and muggings at knifepoint in London is on the rise. But that's hardly what happened here?


You, unwittingly, have proved *exactly* my initial point when you wrote: "...I lived 30+ years there, and it's (Johannesburg) is mostly a corrupt criminal cesspit..." The title of the post referenced an entire country when it would have been FAR more accurate and objective to have indicated the city in which the unfortunate event occurred.

Yes, I have been to both JNB and CPT and no, I'm also "...not talking cushy 5* hotel visits..." either. Oh and robberies at red lights? Take a look at the local news from Chicago, Illinois, USA and run a search on car-hires/ride-sharing services (Uber, Lyft, etc) being held up at gunpoint in order to have iPhones/Navi stolen. (Just as a specific example)

No one was downplaying the severity of the socioeconomic and societal strife rampant throughout ZA -- that's quite evident in following both objective and anecdotal news from the region.

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