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TheZ
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Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:34 pm

Excited about the new LAX service, hopefully it sticks!
If you have to say "pun intended," it's not a good enough pun.
 
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TheZ
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Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:24 am

I sure hope AA's LAX service sticks and helps pave the way for further west coast service. This is certainly a step in the right direction.
If you have to say "pun intended," it's not a good enough pun.
 
membase
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Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Wed Aug 21, 2019 5:06 am

ThaneC wrote:
It’s too bad this is just for the holiday season as Memphis has terrible service to the west coast. LAX has been the airport’s only nonstop west coast destination for many years and usually only 1 flight per day at bad departure/arrival times. American has limited gates at LAX that can be used for other routes, so it seems clear this won’t likely be extended. The ongoing issue is the lack of passenger demand to/from MEM.


The last part is kind of an odd comment to make in response to an added flight, at an airport that has grown its annual passenger volume by 20% in the past five years.

AA is scheduling this flight right on top of DL’s. I don’t see both operating on that schedule long-term, but if AA extended it I wonder if it would be at the expense of one MEM-PHX frequency or at least a gauge reduction.
 
ThaneC
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Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:44 pm

MEM has been stuck at around 85 flights per day on all airlines for several years now. Very few new routes, just slightly larger aircraft. This flight cannot co-exist with Delta’s nonstop especially at roughly the same times each day. Just not enough demand to/from MEM.
 
WaywardMemphian
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Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:11 pm

I'd love to see WN just route a plane MSY-MEM-STL-MKE and back, The Soul (air)Train.
 
membase
Posts: 96
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Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:34 pm

ThaneC wrote:
MEM has been stuck at around 85 flights per day on all airlines for several years now. Very few new routes, just slightly larger aircraft. This flight cannot co-exist with Delta’s nonstop especially at roughly the same times each day. Just not enough demand to/from MEM.


I agree that the lack of new routes has been disappointing. Most of the new routes have been 2X frequencies on G4 which don't really count to me. There have been increased frequencies and upgauges by AA and UA into their hubs which indicates some additional demand in MEM but just not enough to any single city to result in a nonstop. It's actually surprising MEM is getting the growth it has since the metro population growth is stuck in neutral. Could be an uptick in tourism - the boom in construction of downtown hotels would support that.
 
TYSflyer
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Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Thu Aug 22, 2019 12:29 am

WaywardMemphian wrote:
ThaneC wrote:
It’s too bad this is just for the holiday season as Memphis has terrible service to the west coast. LAX has been the airport’s only nonstop west coast destination for many years and usually only 1 flight per day at bad departure/arrival times. American has limited gates at LAX that can be used for other routes, so it seems clear this won’t likely be extended. The ongoing issue is the lack of passenger demand to/from MEM.




By Greg Akers
Editor-in-Chief, Memphis Business Journal
Aug 20, 2019, 9:04am CDT
Updated an hour ago
Travelers from and through Memphis to the West Coast — or to Asia and Australia — will have a new option to get there beginning in December.

American Airlines announced Tuesday, Aug. 20, a new daily seasonal nonstop flight from Memphis International Airport to Los Angeles International Airport. The seasonal service is scheduled to begin Dec. 18, 2019, and run through Jan. 7, 2020 — though it may continue past then if demand is there.


Delta Air Lines and Allegiant Air also fly nonstop to LAX — though Allegiant flies there twice weekly.

MEM to LAX enables one-stop connections to 11 other West Coast destinations, as well as one-stop international connections to Auckland, Beijing, Shanghai, Tokyo, Sydney, Brisbane, Melbourne, and more.

American also flies nonstop from Memphis to Charlotte, Chicago, Dallas, Miami, New York, Philadelphia, Phoenix, and Washington, D.C. A 128-seat Airbus A319 will ferry MEM-LAX travelers to and

This new MEM-LAX service is a significant development in our efforts to expand West Coast connectivity, and we are grateful that American has once again responded to passenger demand,” Pace Cooper, chairman of the Memphis-Shelby County Airport Authority board of commissioners, said in a release. “We hope our passengers will support this flight and make their case for year-round service."


https://www.bizjournals.com/memphis/new ... s_headline


I'll add my two cents. International tourism has continued to grow in Memphis in spite of the overall downturn. Two of the top markets has been Austrailia and Japan. The Memphis convention Center is basically getting rebuilt and a new 600 plus room Lowes hotel.

This route would have been around long ago if a regional could serve it. Just like SFO and UA. It takes a mainline and this is a mainline bird. As the article states, this is a trial balloon and during a peak traveling season.

Why don’t you think AA cannot serve LAX-MEM with an E175? United operates E175 on MSN-LAX/SFO and EUG-ORD and previously on FAT-ORD which all are longer segments than MEM-LAX. It appears that Compass has the E175LR which should have the range for MEM-LAX. Correct me if there is something I am missing.
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Thu Aug 22, 2019 12:53 am

ThaneC wrote:
MEM has been stuck at around 85 flights per day on all airlines for several years now. Very few new routes, just slightly larger aircraft. This flight cannot co-exist with Delta’s nonstop especially at roughly the same times each day. Just not enough demand to/from MEM.


If AA eventually goes daily I think DL will be all too happy to pull out. I also wouldn't be surprised to see AA takeover the Delta lounge. I can't believe it has stayed open this long.
 
ThaneC
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Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Thu Aug 22, 2019 3:50 pm

Yes, this route could be flown on an E175LR. The ongoing problem is passenger demand. There simply are not the daily passengers to support the route, especially if Delta flies it (even at bad departure/arrival times on both ends), and with a ULCC like Allegiant flying it 3 days per week. Passenger demand at MEM is stagnant and likely to remain so for the foreseeable future.
 
membase
Posts: 96
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Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:16 pm

ThaneC wrote:
Passenger demand at MEM is stagnant and likely to remain so for the foreseeable future.


You keep repeating this, but it is not supported by facts:

MEM Passenger Totals by Fiscal year (July-June)
2015 3,584,163
2016 3,949,336 (+10.2%)
2017 4,071,591 (+3.1%)
2018 4,302,104 (+5.7%)
2019 4,522,794 (+5.1%)

For comparison, total U.S. domestic passenger growth in 2017 was 3.0% and in 2018 was 4.9%.
 
ThaneC
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Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:10 pm

The annual pax totals show how small the airport is today, a shell of its former hub days. Most increases have come from larger aircraft. Still only 85 total flights per day on all the carriers serving MEM. Very poor connectivity, especially to the west coast. Bad for business travel. So many major cities not served nonstop including BOS, RDU, SFO/OAK, SAN, SEA, SLC, AUS, MSY, STL, BNA, PIT, CLE, IAD, JFK, etc.
 
malev2012
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Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:23 pm

ThaneC wrote:
The annual pax totals show how small the airport is today, a shell of its former hub days. Most increases have come from larger aircraft. Still only 85 total flights per day on all the carriers serving MEM. Very poor connectivity, especially to the west coast. Bad for business travel. So many major cities not served nonstop including BOS, RDU, SFO/OAK, SAN, SEA, SLC, AUS, MSY, STL, BNA, PIT, CLE, IAD, JFK, etc.

G4 serves OAK and AUS seasonally.
Airlines flown: AA, AB, AC, AY, BA, CO, DL, DY, EW, F9, G4, IB, KL, LH, LX, NK, NW, NZ, OS, QF, SN, TP, UA, US, VA, VC, WN, XE
 
Bluegrass60
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Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Fri Aug 23, 2019 3:21 pm

ThaneC wrote:
The annual pax totals show how small the airport is today, a shell of its former hub days. Most increases have come from larger aircraft. Still only 85 total flights per day on all the carriers serving MEM. Very poor connectivity, especially to the west coast. Bad for business travel. So many major cities not served nonstop including BOS, RDU, SFO/OAK, SAN, SEA, SLC, AUS, MSY, STL, BNA, PIT, CLE, IAD, JFK, etc.


"Obviously, MEM is no longer a hub. Very poor connectivity to the west coast? huh? DL has MEM-LAX NS. There are 30+ connections via ATL, IAH, DEN, CLT, ORD, MSP, DFW, DTW, MDW, PHL, MIA, DAL, PHX.

Bad for business travel? Unless you live in a mega hub....you will never have NS to everywhere. Am 1000% sure that someone in MEM would complain about lack of service if MEM had One Nonstop each day to BOS, RDU, SFO/OAK, SAN, SEA, SLC, AUS, MSY, STL, BNA, PIT, CLE, IAD, JFK, etc....they would complain there is only one or its departure time is not right etc. The reality is there are very few cities that can support point-to-point service with any frequency....thus the Hub or Focus operations by the U3 and WN. The MEM business community should figure out which cities are important for them to have NS service too...then prioritize them...then figure out how a carrier can make money on the route.....then approach the carrier(s) with that plan.

For folks who live in former hubs...MEM, CVG, PIT, STL etc...it might be tough...but it does not make your city "less desirable" for business. There are a lot more important considerations.
 
WaywardMemphian
Topic Author
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Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Fri Aug 23, 2019 4:00 pm

Bluegrass60 wrote:
ThaneC wrote:
The annual pax totals show how small the airport is today, a shell of its former hub days. Most increases have come from larger aircraft. Still only 85 total flights per day on all the carriers serving MEM. Very poor connectivity, especially to the west coast. Bad for business travel. So many major cities not served nonstop including BOS, RDU, SFO/OAK, SAN, SEA, SLC, AUS, MSY, STL, BNA, PIT, CLE, IAD, JFK, etc.


"Obviously, MEM is no longer a hub. Very poor connectivity to the west coast? huh? DL has MEM-LAX NS. There are 30+ connections via ATL, IAH, DEN, CLT, ORD, MSP, DFW, DTW, MDW, PHL, MIA, DAL, PHX.

Bad for business travel? Unless you live in a mega hub....you will never have NS to everywhere. Am 1000% sure that someone in MEM would complain about lack of service if MEM had One Nonstop each day to BOS, RDU, SFO/OAK, SAN, SEA, SLC, AUS, MSY, STL, BNA, PIT, CLE, IAD, JFK, etc....they would complain there is only one or its departure time is not right etc. The reality is there are very few cities that can support point-to-point service with any frequency....thus the Hub or Focus operations by the U3 and WN. The MEM business community should figure out which cities are important for them to have NS service too...then prioritize them...then figure out how a carrier can make money on the route.....then approach the carrier(s) with that plan.

For folks who live in former hubs...MEM, CVG, PIT, STL etc...it might be tough...but it does not make your city "less desirable" for business. There are a lot more important considerations.



Memphis has made that clear. BOS, LAX, and SFO

AA is testing out the LAX, Memphis has stated recently they have really been pushing BOS and all Delta and JetBlue say is that it's a future market but never when.

Moxy is a Wildcard for an Airport like MEM.

I'm sure MEM would love for Southwest to gift them LAS and OAK, United with SFO and OAK, JetBlue or Delta with BOS and JFK and Delta or Alaska with SEA.

Allegiant could add several more like TYS and MSY

There's the Frontier dartboard game.


As I said earlier, Southwest could easily run a Soul Plane Express on MSY, MEM, STL, and MKE.

Which brings me to this. Enjoy your Friday

https://youtu.be/ukOs3am7CtE
Last edited by WaywardMemphian on Fri Aug 23, 2019 4:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
ThaneC
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Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Fri Aug 23, 2019 4:04 pm

If a business traveler has to spend 5 to 8+ hours of a business day traveling and making connection(s) that practice is definitely not good for the business community. Productivity is lost. Time is money.

Smaller city airports like MEM and SDF with relatively few nonstop flights may be fine for cargo/packages, but they not so good for passengers, especially corporate biz travelers.
 
WaywardMemphian
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Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Fri Aug 23, 2019 4:10 pm

ThaneC wrote:
If a business traveler has to spend 5 to 8+ hours of a business day traveling and making connection(s) that practice is definitely not good for the business community. Productivity is lost. Time is money.

Smaller city airports like MEM and SDF with relatively few nonstop flights may be fine for cargo/packages, but they not so good for passengers, especially corporate biz travelers.


No, they are perfect oportunities for a young fresh face like a Moxy much like Southwest was for BNA, STL and MSY when they got neglected by the Legacies.
 
Bluegrass60
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Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Fri Aug 23, 2019 4:14 pm

ThaneC wrote:
If a business traveler has to spend 5 to 8+ hours of a business day traveling and making connection(s) that practice is definitely not good for the business community. Productivity is lost. Time is money.

Smaller city airports like MEM and SDF with relatively few nonstop flights may be fine for cargo/packages, but they not so good for passengers, especially corporate biz travelers.



" I have been a F500 Corporate traveler for many years. Home airport is SDF. Air service or lack thereof is not a huge challenge. Total time traveling is @ same as my colleagues who live in ATL or LGA or ORD.

The real time waster is the lack of short haul flying throughout the country. Maybe Moxy will address that weakness.
 
membase
Posts: 96
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Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Fri Aug 23, 2019 9:34 pm

ThaneC wrote:
The annual pax totals show how small the airport is today, a shell of its former hub days. Most increases have come from larger aircraft. Still only 85 total flights per day on all the carriers serving MEM. Very poor connectivity, especially to the west coast. Bad for business travel. So many major cities not served nonstop including BOS, RDU, SFO/OAK, SAN, SEA, SLC, AUS, MSY, STL, BNA, PIT, CLE, IAD, JFK, etc.


I didn't want MEM to lose hub status, and warned people what they were trading for lower airfares. But a city the size of Memphis having a hub for almost 30 years was an unusual gift. Hubs in larger cities and/or better economic situations (RDU, BNA, PIT, SJC, etc.) lost their hubs long before MEM. Now that the hub is gone, there's no use in comparing to that level of service as if it was a norm for a city in Memphis's circumstances. As I showed in my earlier post, there are several other metros of similar size that have less passenger demand than MEM and a detailed look at their flight schedules will reveal that the n/s destinations served and daily flight counts do not vary much.

For MEM's flight schedule to grown considerably, the population base for the region is going to have to grow or Memphis will have to turn itself into a major convention/tourist town.
 
jplatts
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Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:21 pm

membase wrote:
ThaneC wrote:
The annual pax totals show how small the airport is today, a shell of its former hub days. Most increases have come from larger aircraft. Still only 85 total flights per day on all the carriers serving MEM. Very poor connectivity, especially to the west coast. Bad for business travel. So many major cities not served nonstop including BOS, RDU, SFO/OAK, SAN, SEA, SLC, AUS, MSY, STL, BNA, PIT, CLE, IAD, JFK, etc.


I didn't want MEM to lose hub status, and warned people what they were trading for lower airfares. But a city the size of Memphis having a hub for almost 30 years was an unusual gift. Hubs in larger cities and/or better economic situations (RDU, BNA, PIT, SJC, etc.) lost their hubs long before MEM. Now that the hub is gone, there's no use in comparing to that level of service as if it was a norm for a city in Memphis's circumstances. As I showed in my earlier post, there are several other metros of similar size that have less passenger demand than MEM and a detailed look at their flight schedules will reveal that the n/s destinations served and daily flight counts do not vary much.

For MEM's flight schedule to grown considerably, the population base for the region is going to have to grow or Memphis will have to turn itself into a major convention/tourist town.


OKC is similar in size to MEM, but OKC has nonstop service to SLC on DL, SFO on UA, and SEA on AS, whereas MEM currently lacks nonstop service to SLC, SFO, and SEA. OKC also has a bigger WN presence than MEM does.

On the other hand, MEM has nonstop service to LGA on both AA and DL, whereas OKC currently has no nonstop service to LGA on any airline.
 
Jshank83
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Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:56 pm

jplatts wrote:
membase wrote:
ThaneC wrote:
The annual pax totals show how small the airport is today, a shell of its former hub days. Most increases have come from larger aircraft. Still only 85 total flights per day on all the carriers serving MEM. Very poor connectivity, especially to the west coast. Bad for business travel. So many major cities not served nonstop including BOS, RDU, SFO/OAK, SAN, SEA, SLC, AUS, MSY, STL, BNA, PIT, CLE, IAD, JFK, etc.


I didn't want MEM to lose hub status, and warned people what they were trading for lower airfares. But a city the size of Memphis having a hub for almost 30 years was an unusual gift. Hubs in larger cities and/or better economic situations (RDU, BNA, PIT, SJC, etc.) lost their hubs long before MEM. Now that the hub is gone, there's no use in comparing to that level of service as if it was a norm for a city in Memphis's circumstances. As I showed in my earlier post, there are several other metros of similar size that have less passenger demand than MEM and a detailed look at their flight schedules will reveal that the n/s destinations served and daily flight counts do not vary much.

For MEM's flight schedule to grown considerably, the population base for the region is going to have to grow or Memphis will have to turn itself into a major convention/tourist town.


OKC is similar in size to MEM, but OKC has nonstop service to SLC on DL, SFO on UA, and SEA on AS, whereas MEM currently lacks nonstop service to SLC, SFO, and SEA. OKC also has a bigger WN presence than MEM does.

On the other hand, MEM has nonstop service to LGA on both AA and DL, whereas OKC currently has no nonstop service to LGA on any airline.


It is almost like the one closer to the east coast has east destinations and the one closer to the west has west destinations. Like it works for most cities.
 
ThaneC
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Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Sat Aug 24, 2019 2:24 am

membase wrote:
ThaneC wrote:
MEM has been stuck at around 85 flights per day on all airlines for several years now. Very few new routes, just slightly larger aircraft. This flight cannot co-exist with Delta’s nonstop especially at roughly the same times each day. Just not enough demand to/from MEM.


I agree that the lack of new routes has been disappointing. Most of the new routes have been 2X frequencies on G4 which don't really count to me. There have been increased frequencies and upgauges by AA and UA into their hubs which indicates some additional demand in MEM but just not enough to any single city to result in a nonstop. It's actually surprising MEM is getting the growth it has since the metro population growth is stuck in neutral. Could be an uptick in tourism - the boom in construction of downtown hotels would support that.



The population of the Memphis MSA is pretty much stagnant and the city of Memphis has seen a declining population for years. As for tourism most visitors tend to drive rather than fly.
 
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TheZ
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Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:15 am

ThaneC wrote:
The population of the Memphis MSA is pretty much stagnant and the city of Memphis has seen a declining population for years. As for tourism most visitors tend to drive rather than fly.


I really don't get it. What's the point of your constant negative posts on this thread? Should we all just pack it in and give up?
If you have to say "pun intended," it's not a good enough pun.
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:29 am

membase wrote:
ThaneC wrote:
The annual pax totals show how small the airport is today, a shell of its former hub days. Most increases have come from larger aircraft. Still only 85 total flights per day on all the carriers serving MEM. Very poor connectivity, especially to the west coast. Bad for business travel. So many major cities not served nonstop including BOS, RDU, SFO/OAK, SAN, SEA, SLC, AUS, MSY, STL, BNA, PIT, CLE, IAD, JFK, etc.


I didn't want MEM to lose hub status, and warned people what they were trading for lower airfares. But a city the size of Memphis having a hub for almost 30 years was an unusual gift. Hubs in larger cities and/or better economic situations (RDU, BNA, PIT, SJC, etc.) lost their hubs long before MEM. Now that the hub is gone, there's no use in comparing to that level of service as if it was a norm for a city in Memphis's circumstances. As I showed in my earlier post, there are several other metros of similar size that have less passenger demand than MEM and a detailed look at their flight schedules will reveal that the n/s destinations served and daily flight counts do not vary much.

For MEM's flight schedule to grown considerably, the population base for the region is going to have to grow or Memphis will have to turn itself into a major convention/tourist town.


Agreed. The airlines were on the rebound in 2007. DL, UA, CO, NW were all profitable. AA and US were struggling. US because of the recent HP merger and AA had put off the inevitable bankruptcy for too long. Had AA filed Ch 11 when the others did I believe they would have been on the uptick as well. The airlines were getting healthy again and there was still plenty of competition for the consumer. We didn't need the mergers. We have gained nothing. Coach fares have most certainly increased. It's not the same anymore. Basic economy is the new standard and to get what we had before the mergers (regular coach) we have to pay to more.

This has been a hard lesson learned and if we ever get back to healthy competition I hope we never make this mistake again. I don't care about an airline's profits. Profits are not guaranteed in any business.
 
WaywardMemphian
Topic Author
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Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:12 pm

With the Convention Center redo and increase in hotel inventory Memphis has got the COGIC convention back starting in 2021. That is also is when the the B concourse redo is due to be complete, which was re ently mentioned as ahead of schedule and on budget.
COGIC is good for about 30 to 40k visitors. Some in Memphis hate COGIC and believe their members are cheap, constantly trying to get comp'd by complaining. Sime would shut down that week and go on vacation. It is still a big get together and will boost the airport #s. That screams for my toungue in check but dead serious need for the The Soul Plane routing on Southwest. (Plus the connecting ops for MEM travelers at MSY and STL)

I was a huge proponent of even without a pro team, a new convention center, stadium and hotel on the east end of Beale. Itwould have been a slam dunk. It would have replaced the old Liberty Bowl and provide a new home with better amenities for the local college team and the Liberty Bowl along with taking adventage of the hotel growth downtown and place it at party central(Beale St). When the Commercial Appeal property became availible, that was the chance. That has now passed so we got a 400 million reno of Cook. The new stadium could have been used to bring in larger artists on the for the incredibly successful Beale Street Music Fest and bring it to the NOJF in scale.
 
membase
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Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Sun Aug 25, 2019 2:32 am

jplatts wrote:

OKC is similar in size to MEM, but OKC has nonstop service to SLC on DL, SFO on UA, and SEA on AS, whereas MEM currently lacks nonstop service to SLC, SFO, and SEA. OKC also has a bigger WN presence than MEM does.

On the other hand, MEM has nonstop service to LGA on both AA and DL, whereas OKC currently has no nonstop service to LGA on any airline.


Yes, and MEM also has n/s to MIA, TPA and EWR but I don’t see those at OKC. So there are variances but mostly trade-offs due to geographic orientation east vs west like jshank said.
 
jplatts
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Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Sun Aug 25, 2019 8:20 am

membase wrote:
Yes, and MEM also has n/s to MIA, TPA and EWR but I don’t see those at OKC. So there are variances but mostly trade-offs due to geographic orientation east vs west like jshank said.


AA is going to be starting OKC-MIA nonstop service on December 18th.
 
WaywardMemphian
Topic Author
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Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:40 pm

The next Gen Fred Smith seems to like downtown Memphis and Fed Ex is looking to have a large corporate presence there. They have already announced a move into thenformer Gibsons Guitar facility and nownseem to expand further with a possible lease in a planned office tower called The Clipper located next to that

https://www.bizjournals.com/memphis/new ... tower.html

That rendering there shows off quite the little FedEx area with Fed Ex Arena adjacent to it all.
 
malev2012
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Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Sun Aug 25, 2019 2:25 pm

jplatts wrote:
membase wrote:
Yes, and MEM also has n/s to MIA, TPA and EWR but I don’t see those at OKC. So there are variances but mostly trade-offs due to geographic orientation east vs west like jshank said.


AA is going to be starting OKC-MIA nonstop service on December 18th.


OKC has service to EWR except in the dead of winter.
Airlines flown: AA, AB, AC, AY, BA, CO, DL, DY, EW, F9, G4, IB, KL, LH, LX, NK, NW, NZ, OS, QF, SN, TP, UA, US, VA, VC, WN, XE
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Sun Aug 25, 2019 3:01 pm

TYSflyer wrote:
Why don’t you think AA cannot serve LAX-MEM with an E175? United operates E175 on MSN-LAX/SFO and EUG-ORD and previously on FAT-ORD which all are longer segments than MEM-LAX. It appears that Compass has the E175LR which should have the range for MEM-LAX. Correct me if there is something I am missing.


There is something you're missing, and that's CASM. An E75 - especially on a long stage - is nowhere near cost competitive with a DL 738. Do you think AA's fares are going to average 20% higher? I doubt it. Operational reliability of AA regional carriers vs. DL mainline. Hah hah hah hah hah!

See DL's comparison of per-seat costs CR2 vs. CR9/E75 vs. small narrowbody vs. medium narrowbody vs. large narrowbody in their 12/2017 Investor Day presentation.
 
membase
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Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Sun Aug 25, 2019 10:45 pm

malev2012 wrote:

OKC has service to EWR except in the dead of winter.


Ah, yes. I see OKC-EWR now. Must have overlooked it. Thanks.
 
TTailedTiger
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Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:19 am

Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Mon Aug 26, 2019 12:06 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
TYSflyer wrote:
Why don’t you think AA cannot serve LAX-MEM with an E175? United operates E175 on MSN-LAX/SFO and EUG-ORD and previously on FAT-ORD which all are longer segments than MEM-LAX. It appears that Compass has the E175LR which should have the range for MEM-LAX. Correct me if there is something I am missing.


There is something you're missing, and that's CASM. An E75 - especially on a long stage - is nowhere near cost competitive with a DL 738. Do you think AA's fares are going to average 20% higher? I doubt it. Operational reliability of AA regional carriers vs. DL mainline. Hah hah hah hah hah!

See DL's comparison of per-seat costs CR2 vs. CR9/E75 vs. small narrowbody vs. medium narrowbody vs. large narrowbody in their 12/2017 Investor Day presentation.


Who is to say that DL won't drop MEM-LAX? AA could make a 5x weekly flight work in that case. I could see DL swapping MEM-LAX for MEM-BOS on an rj.
 
WaywardMemphian
Topic Author
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Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Mon Aug 26, 2019 10:43 am

ThaneC wrote:
membase wrote:
ThaneC wrote:
MEM has been stuck at around 85 flights per day on all airlines for several years now. Very few new routes, just slightly larger aircraft. This flight cannot co-exist with Delta’s nonstop especially at roughly the same times each day. Just not enough demand to/from MEM.


I agree that the lack of new routes has been disappointing. Most of the new routes have been 2X frequencies on G4 which don't really count to me. There have been increased frequencies and upgauges by AA and UA into their hubs which indicates some additional demand in MEM but just not enough to any single city to result in a nonstop. It's actually surprising MEM is getting the growth it has since the metro population growth is stuck in neutral. Could be an uptick in tourism - the boom in construction of downtown hotels would support that.



The population of the Memphis MSA is pretty much stagnant and the city of Memphis has seen a declining population for years. As for tourism most visitors tend to drive rather than fly.


The negativity toward MEM displayed by you makes me think you simply do not like Memphis and just want to dog the city and the region. Are you a Nashville fanboy? Like I have posted, International tourism has increased while the overall trend for the US has been downward. Would it surprize you that MEM is a rather big Millennial hotspot, even bigger than Raleigh? Well, it is...

https://time.com/4797956/cities-millennials-moving/


4th fastest growing. Compare that to KC, STL and Louisville.

A little op-ed about that...

https://dailymemphian.com/section/opini ... lo-memphis
 
pmanni1
Posts: 242
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Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:46 am

WaywardMemphian wrote:
ThaneC wrote:
membase wrote:

I agree that the lack of new routes has been disappointing. Most of the new routes have been 2X frequencies on G4 which don't really count to me. There have been increased frequencies and upgauges by AA and UA into their hubs which indicates some additional demand in MEM but just not enough to any single city to result in a nonstop. It's actually surprising MEM is getting the growth it has since the metro population growth is stuck in neutral. Could be an uptick in tourism - the boom in construction of downtown hotels would support that.



The population of the Memphis MSA is pretty much stagnant and the city of Memphis has seen a declining population for years. As for tourism most visitors tend to drive rather than fly.


The negativity toward MEM displayed by you makes me think you simply do not like Memphis and just want to dog the city and the region. Are you a Nashville fanboy? Like I have posted, International tourism has increased while the overall trend for the US has been downward. Would it surprize you that MEM is a rather big Millennial hotspot, even bigger than Raleigh? Well, it is...

https://time.com/4797956/cities-millennials-moving/


4th fastest growing. Compare that to KC, STL and Louisville.

A little op-ed about that...

https://dailymemphian.com/section/opini ... lo-memphis


This doesn't seem like negativity on Memphis. It is what it is. Adding 1700 millennials in 5 years and Shelby county growing at .9% isn't going to make airlines sit up and take notice and think they need to add more and more flights.
 
ThaneC
Posts: 56
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Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Mon Aug 26, 2019 2:26 pm

Only pointing out that MEM continues to face numerous challenges in trying to build up its passenger air service. The city/region are not growing and with its tepid business, tourism and convention markets, the prospects are not strong. The airlines all have excellent route planning departments so if the demand was there, they would certainly be adding new nonstop routes to/from MEM. Disappointing for MEM, but it is what it is.
 
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TheZ
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Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Mon Aug 26, 2019 2:37 pm

ThaneC wrote:
Only pointing out that MEM continues to face numerous challenges in trying to build up its passenger air service. The city/region are not growing and with its tepid business, tourism and convention markets, the prospects are not strong. The airlines all have excellent route planning departments so if the demand was there, they would certainly be adding new nonstop routes to/from MEM. Disappointing for MEM, but it is what it is.


You've accomplished your goal of pointing this out several times lately. I'm sure there are plenty of other threads who could use a welcome reality check like this one. Please make sure to help them too, they'll certainly appreciate it.
If you have to say "pun intended," it's not a good enough pun.
 
membase
Posts: 96
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Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Mon Aug 26, 2019 4:01 pm

pmanni1 wrote:

This doesn't seem like negativity on Memphis. It is what it is. Adding 1700 millennials in 5 years and Shelby county growing at .9% isn't going to make airlines sit up and take notice and think they need to add more and more flights.


The problem is that ThaneC has 19 posts and, with the exception of three or four discussing BNA, all contain some disparaging comments about MEM's air service and the Memphis region's prospects in general. Even posts concerning SDF managed to take shots at MEM. Evidence suggest that this person's recent appearance on a.net has an anti-MEM motivation.

Several people have presented facts supporting that MEM has moderately positive momentum in attracting additional passengers and service and that there are some promising developments in tourism and economic development. Just because Memphis is not Nashville or Austin doesn't mean the city and region have no future. It's perfectly fine for someone to present a contradictory point of view, but it's bordering on trolling to keeping showing up every few days and repeating it almost verbatim.
 
ThaneC
Posts: 56
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Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Mon Aug 26, 2019 4:30 pm

MEM and SDF are quite similar. Both are smaller city airports that happen to have large cargo operations (FedEx and UPS), but lacking in passenger air service. I’d say SDF is in a better position given its stronger local and regional economy. If the prospects for growth at MEM improve, i’m confident the airlines route planning departments will quickly respond.

There is no need to be so defensive about Memphis. It is what it is.
 
Moosefire
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Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Mon Aug 26, 2019 4:34 pm

ThaneC wrote:
MEM and SDF are quite similar. Both are smaller city airports that happen to have large cargo operations (FedEx and UPS), but lacking in passenger air service. I’d say SDF is in a better position given its stronger local and regional economy. If the prospects for growth at MEM improve, i’m confident the airlines route planning departments will quickly respond.

There is no need to be so defensive about Memphis. It is what it is.


I think there’s a lot of truth here. I live in Memphis and it sure feels like a city in decline
MD-11F/C-17A Pilot
 
WaywardMemphian
Topic Author
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Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Mon Aug 26, 2019 5:23 pm

The number of people boarding aircraft at Memphis International Airport has continue to rise.

Enplanements at MEM increased by 14,901, or 7.5 percent, in July year-over-year — from 198,889 to 213,790, according to the latest figures released by the Memphis-Shelby County Airport Authority. Additionally, the airport has seen year-over-year passenger growth in recent months, including 9.1 percent in March; 2 percent in April; 8 percent in May; and 4.1 percent in June.


Glen Thomas, director of strategic marketing and communications for the airport, said the growth in passenger volume is a result of new routes, additional flight frequencies, and passengers who have met increased supply with increased demand. In July 2019, the airport's flights offered more than 700 additional seats per day, compared to July 2018, but the load factors stayed largely the same.


https://www.bizjournals.com/memphis/new ... rport.html
 
membase
Posts: 96
Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2005 2:31 pm

Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Mon Aug 26, 2019 7:38 pm

Moosefire wrote:

I think there’s a lot of truth here. I live in Memphis and it sure feels like a city in decline

I live here also, and I see plenty of signs it's not in decline. Changing, yes, but not in decline. But I suppose it is a matter of perspective and whether one accepts or approves of the changes they see.

My perspective may be different from others because I think ascent/decline should be judged in absolute terms, not relative to other places, and by things other than population growth, skyscraper construction or the number of homicides reported on the TV news.
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Mon Aug 26, 2019 8:53 pm

I think Las Vegas might be a good addition for WN. I would think there is sufficient local demand and connecting opportunities to the rest of the west coast. Once B6 gets the A220 perhaps they will start MEM-BOS.
 
malev2012
Posts: 259
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Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:27 pm

membase wrote:
Moosefire wrote:

I think there’s a lot of truth here. I live in Memphis and it sure feels like a city in decline

I live here also, and I see plenty of signs it's not in decline. Changing, yes, but not in decline. But I suppose it is a matter of perspective and whether one accepts or approves of the changes they see.

My perspective may be different from others because I think ascent/decline should be judged in absolute terms, not relative to other places, and by things other than population growth, skyscraper construction or the number of homicides reported on the TV news.

I visit Memphis regularly and it has potential for sure. However the ingredients for increasing air service just aren't there. My friend that live in Memphis are doctors and they discuss the lack of young professionals. My home airport Austin is just the opposite as the growth there high wage young folk is exactly what drives air service how many metros 10hrs flight from Europe have service on three carriers of similar size? Memphis is a blue collar town and wages aren't high enough to stimulate demand for air travel.
Airlines flown: AA, AB, AC, AY, BA, CO, DL, DY, EW, F9, G4, IB, KL, LH, LX, NK, NW, NZ, OS, QF, SN, TP, UA, US, VA, VC, WN, XE
 
membase
Posts: 96
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Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Wed Aug 28, 2019 3:36 am

malev2012 wrote:
I visit Memphis regularly and it has potential for sure. However the ingredients for increasing air service just aren't there. My friend that live in Memphis are doctors and they discuss the lack of young professionals. My home airport Austin is just the opposite as the growth there high wage young folk is exactly what drives air service how many metros 10hrs flight from Europe have service on three carriers of similar size? Memphis is a blue collar town and wages aren't high enough to stimulate demand for air travel.


I don’t think that a rapid increase in air service is likely, just as I don’t see population growth taking off in the near future. Growth will have to be driven primarily by increases in convention/tourism and improving economics for the existing population base.

If traffic continues to grow at a realistic ~5% annual clip as it has in the post-hub era then I believe we’ll see a few more routes added. Places like BOS, SFO/OAK, LAS, SLC and perhaps SEA that are major cities or hubs, already have decent PDEW from MEM and that have service from other similar-sized markets. But I don’t see service coming soon to some other wish-list cities like PIT, IND, RDU, SAN or MCI in the next 5 years.
Last edited by membase on Wed Aug 28, 2019 4:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
IAHWorldflyer
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Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Wed Aug 28, 2019 3:37 am

While I can see why people in MEM would like nonstop service to LAX and SFO, the airlines know the numbers of passengers this would attract, and so far they are satisfied with just offering MEM travelers a connection through DFW, DEN, or IAH. UA in particular is very gate constrained at SFO, and to a lesser extent, LAX. They aren't going to use precious gate space if they can't run flights that are constantly 80-85% full.
 
Deltran757
Posts: 69
Joined: Sun Jun 22, 2008 5:37 pm

Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Wed Aug 28, 2019 9:24 am

[photoid][/photoid]
IAHWorldflyer wrote:
While I can see why people in MEM would like nonstop service to LAX and SFO, the airlines know the numbers of passengers this would attract, and so far they are satisfied with just offering MEM travelers a connection through DFW, DEN, or IAH. UA in particular is very gate constrained at SFO, and to a lesser extent, LAX. They aren't going to use precious gate space if they can't run flights that are constantly 80-85% full.


Wait huh? DL & G4 already flies to LAX with AA offering seasonal service in the near future. Also G4 flies to OAK seasonal as well. Its possible for UA to run a nonstop to SFO (but the know the numbers) so I think DEN will do for now.
To see the world... One plane at a time
 
WaywardMemphian
Topic Author
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Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Wed Aug 28, 2019 12:48 pm

IAHWorldflyer wrote:
While I can see why people in MEM would like nonstop service to LAX and SFO, the airlines know the numbers of passengers this would attract, and so far they are satisfied with just offering MEM travelers a connection through DFW, DEN, or IAH. UA in particular is very gate constrained at SFO, and to a lesser extent, LAX. They aren't going to use precious gate space if they can't run flights that are constantly 80-85% full.


When Allegiant announce they would gi year round from MEM, the MEM airport people specifically said it was helping them prove demand for AA I think the PDEW is around 170 to 180. As it stands now. With a second carrier running a nonstop daily or nearly daily(like the Delta service) prices would come down and could possible stimulate demand from those wanting more than feom Allegiant. AA knows the numbers they run the west coast. Think about this, with AA struggling with the MAX issue, they are putting a mainline plane on the MEM/LAX route during a peak travel period. I guess they think there will be enough demand to do that. AA has put 319s on the DCA route as well.

Looking into the future, Air Canada pushed back it's upgage to 175s from CRJ until next year but it's showing up for bookings in 2020. I figure MAX issues are at play there as well.

Back to LAX, if AA decides to go all in on LAX and Delta pulls off, it may lead to SLC flights which I wouldn't be opposed to as it would better serve travel to PAC NW with United and Southwest via Denver.

As someone that flys WN often from MEM, TUL and even LIT, flights west via PHX run cheaper than flights via LAS. Part of me wants the LAS flight most but would be perfectly fine with PHX. My routing wish list would love both one day with each having a no plane change like this MEM/PHX/SAN and MEM/LAS/OAK.
 
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TheZ
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Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Sun Sep 08, 2019 4:20 pm

I've noticed AA has been rotating in A320's the last couple days on some flights to/from DCA and CLT instead of the usual 319. Looking at Flightradar24 (though not sure how accurate that is for future flights) this looks to be the case for the near future as well. It'd be great if that sticks around, every bit of good news helps.
If you have to say "pun intended," it's not a good enough pun.
 
malev2012
Posts: 259
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Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Thu Sep 19, 2019 5:51 pm

Seems that FedEx has hit a rough spot recently, https://business.financialpost.com/news ... r-slowdown wonder what the impact will be on airport revenue, if FedEx has less operations will this drive costs per enplaned passenger higher?
Airlines flown: AA, AB, AC, AY, BA, CO, DL, DY, EW, F9, G4, IB, KL, LH, LX, NK, NW, NZ, OS, QF, SN, TP, UA, US, VA, VC, WN, XE
 
MEMber
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Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Sat Sep 21, 2019 2:13 pm

Yes I am concerned by that @melv2012. FedEx does a lot for the Memphians in both philanthropy and employment. If their business is down, no doubt things will get tougher and their will be more layoffs in a city that desperately does not need them. In turn, if an already uncompetitive market becomes worse, airlines will stop expanding or begin to peel back more flight options. I am very hopeful Air Canada keeps the direct flight to Toronto, but I could see that become a casualty. Delta and ATL might be our only hope.
“Home is behind, the world ahead, and there are many paths to tread. Through shadows to the edge of night, until the stars are all alight...Mist and twilight, cloud and shade, Away shall fade! Away shall fade!”
 
ThaneC
Posts: 56
Joined: Sun Aug 04, 2019 1:12 am

Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Sat Sep 21, 2019 3:28 pm

FedEx to park or retire 35 freighters due to reduced demand and severed Amazon contracts

https://cargofacts.com/allposts/logisti ... azon-ties/

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