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Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Posted: Sat Sep 21, 2019 5:01 pm
by WaywardMemphian
malev2012 wrote:
Seems that FedEx has hit a rough spot recently, https://business.financialpost.com/news ... r-slowdown wonder what the impact will be on airport revenue, if FedEx has less operations will this drive costs per enplaned passenger higher?


Some thoughs...

Amazon is eyeing yet another facility in Memphis, this time is a rumored mega facility at 5 levels and several million sq ft. That may lead to some increase Amazin Air activity


Supposedly UPS is looking to expand at the airport, the size of that is unknown. However, some of the bordering land that used to be a neighborhood was recently bought from the airport and something is to happen there.
https://www.bizjournals.com/memphis/new ... cargo.html

August numbers were up near 3% last year, averaged 90 commercial passenger flights per day compared to 83 in 2018.

We have posts here showing the upgaging of equipment especially on AA flights, I'd say things are ok for MEM

FedEx also suggested a rebound for 2021 based on current conditions.
https://dailymemphian.com/section/busin ... -2021-if-e

Add in the recent expansion of ops worth billions I'd say Memphis will be ok. FedEx is about to move many jobs downtown. Cranes are rising in Downtown Memphis finally. Some local economists say Memphis economy is the best it's been 4 decades. They just landed an United Healthcare offshoot HQ for downtown. They will also have ops in Boston. Along with the Indigo HQ and it's Boston connections. Eventually someone will get a clue at bring back MEM/BOS.
https://www.commercialappeal.com/story/ ... 352340001/

Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Posted: Sat Sep 21, 2019 5:09 pm
by SELMER40
ThaneC wrote:
FedEx to park or retire 35 freighters due to reduced demand and severed Amazon contracts

https://cargofacts.com/allposts/logisti ... azon-ties/

The headline does not match the text. The text uses the words "equivalent" and "up to". Big difference.

Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Posted: Sat Sep 21, 2019 11:12 pm
by MEMber
WaywardMemphian wrote:
malev2012 wrote:
Seems that FedEx has hit a rough spot recently, https://business.financialpost.com/news ... r-slowdown wonder what the impact will be on airport revenue, if FedEx has less operations will this drive costs per enplaned passenger higher?


Some thoughs...

Amazon is eyeing yet another facility in Memphis, this time is a rumored mega facility at 5 levels and several million sq ft. That may lead to some increase Amazin Air activity


Supposedly UPS is looking to expand at the airport, the size of that is unknown. However, some of the bordering land that used to be a neighborhood was recently bought from the airport and something is to happen there.
https://www.bizjournals.com/memphis/new ... cargo.html

August numbers were up near 3% last year, averaged 90 commercial passenger flights per day compared to 83 in 2018.

We have posts here showing the upgaging of equipment especially on AA flights, I'd say things are ok for MEM

FedEx also suggested a rebound for 2021 based on current conditions.
https://dailymemphian.com/section/busin ... -2021-if-e

Add in the recent expansion of ops worth billions I'd say Memphis will be ok. FedEx is about to move many jobs downtown. Cranes are rising in Downtown Memphis finally. Some local economists say Memphis economy is the best it's been 4 decades. They just landed an United Healthcare offshoot HQ for downtown. They will also have ops in Boston. Along with the Indigo HQ and it's Boston connections. Eventually someone will get a clue at bring back MEM/BOS.
https://www.commercialappeal.com/story/ ... 352340001/



It would be great if we could get more connections. MEM/Boston would be HUGE for those interested in travel to Europe. Could then have two solid airport options for international travel in ATL and BOS (both with direct flights). I hope you are right

Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 4:46 am
by WaywardMemphian
MEMber wrote:
WaywardMemphian wrote:
malev2012 wrote:
Seems that FedEx has hit a rough spot recently, https://business.financialpost.com/news ... r-slowdown wonder what the impact will be on airport revenue, if FedEx has less operations will this drive costs per enplaned passenger higher?


Some thoughs...

Amazon is eyeing yet another facility in Memphis, this time is a rumored mega facility at 5 levels and several million sq ft. That may lead to some increase Amazin Air activity


Supposedly UPS is looking to expand at the airport, the size of that is unknown. However, some of the bordering land that used to be a neighborhood was recently bought from the airport and something is to happen there.
https://www.bizjournals.com/memphis/new ... cargo.html

August numbers were up near 3% last year, averaged 90 commercial passenger flights per day compared to 83 in 2018.

We have posts here showing the upgaging of equipment especially on AA flights, I'd say things are ok for MEM

FedEx also suggested a rebound for 2021 based on current conditions.
https://dailymemphian.com/section/busin ... -2021-if-e

Add in the recent expansion of ops worth billions I'd say Memphis will be ok. FedEx is about to move many jobs downtown. Cranes are rising in Downtown Memphis finally. Some local economists say Memphis economy is the best it's been 4 decades. They just landed an United Healthcare offshoot HQ for downtown. They will also have ops in Boston. Along with the Indigo HQ and it's Boston connections. Eventually someone will get a clue at bring back MEM/BOS.
https://www.commercialappeal.com/story/ ... 352340001/



It would be great if we could get more connections. MEM/Boston would be HUGE for those interested in travel to Europe. Could then have two solid airport options for international travel in ATL and BOS (both with direct flights). I hope you are right


Air Canada is doing a good bit of TATL business in MEM via Toronto.

Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:04 pm
by malev2012
WaywardMemphian wrote:
MEMber wrote:
WaywardMemphian wrote:

Some thoughs...

Amazon is eyeing yet another facility in Memphis, this time is a rumored mega facility at 5 levels and several million sq ft. That may lead to some increase Amazin Air activity


Supposedly UPS is looking to expand at the airport, the size of that is unknown. However, some of the bordering land that used to be a neighborhood was recently bought from the airport and something is to happen there.
https://www.bizjournals.com/memphis/new ... cargo.html

August numbers were up near 3% last year, averaged 90 commercial passenger flights per day compared to 83 in 2018.

We have posts here showing the upgaging of equipment especially on AA flights, I'd say things are ok for MEM

FedEx also suggested a rebound for 2021 based on current conditions.
https://dailymemphian.com/section/busin ... -2021-if-e

Add in the recent expansion of ops worth billions I'd say Memphis will be ok. FedEx is about to move many jobs downtown. Cranes are rising in Downtown Memphis finally. Some local economists say Memphis economy is the best it's been 4 decades. They just landed an United Healthcare offshoot HQ for downtown. They will also have ops in Boston. Along with the Indigo HQ and it's Boston connections. Eventually someone will get a clue at bring back MEM/BOS.
https://www.commercialappeal.com/story/ ... 352340001/



It would be great if we could get more connections. MEM/Boston would be HUGE for those interested in travel to Europe. Could then have two solid airport options for international travel in ATL and BOS (both with direct flights). I hope you are right


Air Canada is doing a good bit of TATL business in MEM via Toronto.


Yes but the Air Canada flights are on regional jets and require clearing customs in Toronto. Whereas I would hope the Boston flights would be on a smaller mainline jet.

Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 1:54 pm
by TheZ
Southwest adding Atlanta starting March 7th, 2020. Great to see more service from them and some competition on that route.

https://www.flymemphis.com/NewsDetails?newsid=5296

Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:31 pm
by Bluegrass60
Great news for MEM. Always good to see DL get some competition. Would like to see them reinstate SDF-ATL!

Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 7:34 pm
by membase
TheZ wrote:
Southwest adding Atlanta starting March 7th, 2020. Great to see more service from them and some competition on that route.

https://www.flymemphis.com/NewsDetails?newsid=5296


This is something I've seen/heard many people looking for. Much needed.

With the second flight's 10:45 arrival at MEM, it looks like WN will now have 4 RON a/c in MEM (with the MDW, HOU and DAL flights being the others). I think they only have 3 gates at present.

Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 9:02 pm
by WaywardMemphian
Fitch gives MEM bonds a great rating.

Interesting tidbit in the piece has MEM's O&D market pegged at 2.2 million.

https://www.bizjournals.com/memphis/new ... s_headline

Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2019 1:45 pm
by TheZ
Some damage sustained during this morning's storms and flights were temporarily halted, more info here:
https://www.fox13memphis.com/top-storie ... /999810366

Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2019 2:19 pm
by WaywardMemphian
TheZ wrote:
Some damage sustained during this morning's storms and flights were temporarily halted, more info here:
https://www.fox13memphis.com/top-storie ... /999810366



Yeah, same front that hit Dallas and up here in NWA. XNA area was hit hard. Roads to the airport were blocked this morning g and the airport itself was without power.

Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 7:00 pm
by OccupiedLav
I've read some talk on here that MEM could be an opportunity for MOXY. Do we have any actual evidence that they are considering MEM?

Given MOXY's proposed business model, MEM does seem like a good fit. However, I would not be one bit surprised if they leave MEM out.

Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 7:09 pm
by Bluegrass60
OccupiedLav wrote:
I've read some talk on here that MEM could be an opportunity for MOXY. Do we have any actual evidence that they are considering MEM?

Given MOXY's proposed business model, MEM does seem like a good fit. However, I would not be one bit surprised if they leave MEM out.



"MEM would be a good fit based on my understanding of MOXY....ie flying among markets the legacy 3 ignore other than spokes to their hubs"

Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 7:31 pm
by ThaneC
MEM is a small market and currently has only about 85 total airline flights per day on all carriers. It’s definitely not a “destination” city for tourism or business. Memphis has been stagnant for a long time and the city and its MSA are not growing. Those factors limit much additional air service development.

Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 7:31 pm
by WaywardMemphian
[list=][/list]Memphis recently had it'sbusiest days at the TSA checkpoints during the "fall break". It clocked in 2008 level lines. MEM was warning folks way in advance that it would be busier than spring break. The parking decks got full, yada, yada, yada. Folks are a bit surprised at how the O&D continues to grow at MEM. I'm not. There's still plenty more room to grow with it's 2.2 million catchment area.

Moxy can come in and offer up some west coast destinations and fill the Boston void

Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 7:38 pm
by WaywardMemphian
ThaneC wrote:
MEM is a small market and currently has only about 85 total airline flights per day on all carriers. It’s definitely not a “destination” city for tourism or business. Memphis has been stagnant for a long time and the city and its MSA are not growing. Those factors limit much additional air service development.


Memphis is experiencing it's best economic times since the early 80s and to say it lacks tourism is laughable it had over 2 million internation tourist last year and experienced year over year growth on that front while other major markets saw a downturn. There's billions in development underway in Downtown Memphis.

http://www.homebuyinginstitute.com/news ... llennials/

https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbesreal ... g-in-2018/

Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:29 pm
by ThaneC
Memphis is a city that most tourists tend to drive to for a visit. While there may finally be some small rehabilitation and development projects downtown, the city and regional economy are anemic compared to other more dynamic destinations and the population growth has been flatlined for several years. For example, nearby BNA sees 4X more annual passengers compared to MEM.

Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:35 pm
by N292UX
NK is expected to order about 100 A320neo family aircraft later today. I question if with some of those new aircraft, NK will launch some flights to MEM. There's definitely space for them considering F9 and G4 aren't huge at the airport. I could see the starting off with some combination that includes FLL, LAS, and MCO. And depending on how those go, then they could always add more routes.

Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:43 pm
by Delta28L
N292UX wrote:
NK is expected to order about 100 A320neo family aircraft later today. I question if with some of those new aircraft, NK will launch some flights to MEM. There's definitely space for them considering F9 and G4 aren't huge at the airport. I could see the starting off with some combination that includes FLL, LAS, and MCO. And depending on how those go, then they could always add more routes.


I would not be surprised to see them in MEM in the next four years. BWI FLL MCO TPA LAS would be great routes out of MEM for spirit to try.

Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:38 pm
by OccupiedLav
ThaneC wrote:
Memphis is a city that most tourists tend to drive to for a visit. While there may finally be some small rehabilitation and development projects downtown, the city and regional economy are anemic compared to other more dynamic destinations and the population growth has been flatlined for several years. For example, nearby BNA sees 4X more annual passengers compared to MEM.


I just read through the previous two pages on this thread today and noticed that you seem to be repeating the same things over and over. YES, we KNOW the city of Memphis is not that great, and it doesn't have that much potential when compared to other markets. No need to remind us 100 times. You should head over to the Nashville thread. They could really use your talents.

Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 12:00 am
by WaywardMemphian
ThaneC wrote:
Memphis is a city that most tourists tend to drive to for a visit. While there may finally be some small rehabilitation and development projects downtown, the city and regional economy are anemic compared to other more dynamic destinations and the population growth has been flatlined for several years. For example, nearby BNA sees 4X more annual passengers compared to MEM.


1.5 billion dollar Union Station is small, gotcha. 230 .million Lowes Hotel is small, gotcha, billions in St. Jude Expansion is small, gotcha. Dude, you hate Memphis, we get it.

Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 12:03 am
by WaywardMemphian
N292UX wrote:
NK is expected to order about 100 A320neo family aircraft later today. I question if with some of those new aircraft, NK will launch some flights to MEM. There's definitely space for them considering F9 and G4 aren't huge at the airport. I could see the starting off with some combination that includes FLL, LAS, and MCO. And depending on how those go, then they could always add more routes.


MCO seems saturated. WN bumps it up 3x on some days for peak times, F9 and G4 flies it. It is dog cheap all things considered.

Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 1:10 am
by ThaneC
Spirit Airlines is rapidly growing and might be a good candidate to try MEM. There is clearly plenty of space and the terminal is under renovation. The question is can any new route be sustained.

Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 1:14 pm
by MEMber
ThaneC wrote:
Spirit Airlines is rapidly growing and might be a good candidate to try MEM. There is clearly plenty of space and the terminal is under renovation. The question is can any new route be sustained.


ULCC, while often ridiculed, do offer a viable alternative. It gives the consumer the ability to determine their own price (do I really need snacks? a coke? checked bag AND carry on?, etc.) I think spirit could do well here.

Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 1:32 pm
by malev2012
MEMber wrote:
ThaneC wrote:
Spirit Airlines is rapidly growing and might be a good candidate to try MEM. There is clearly plenty of space and the terminal is under renovation. The question is can any new route be sustained.


ULCC, while often ridiculed, do offer a viable alternative. It gives the consumer the ability to determine their own price (do I really need snacks? a coke? checked bag AND carry on?, etc.) I think spirit could do well here.


Yes I see Spirit as a good match for price sensitive travelers in Memphis. Spirit could stimulate a lot more trips. They have lots of planes coming soon so they will have to expand.

Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 2:11 pm
by TheZ
(Update in thread gets posted about City/Airport's progress)

(Paging ThaneC, please come talk crap about Memphis or its prospects, enthusiasm cannot go unchecked)

Only took an hour this time, at least we've got something we can count on around here.

Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:10 pm
by OccupiedLav
ThaneC wrote:
Spirit Airlines is rapidly growing and might be a good candidate to try MEM. There is clearly plenty of space and the terminal is under renovation. The question is can any new route be sustained.


Spirit is one of the few carriers that I am actually surprised hasn't started Memphis. I think the ULCCs can do pretty well with limited service in this market, as Allegiant has found. However, you hit it right on the head. I'm not sure Spirit service could be sustained with both Allegiant and Frontier already having a presence. On the other hand, Spirit coming in could force the other ULCCs to reduce or discontinue some routes.

Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:14 pm
by OccupiedLav
Would this thread be a good place to mention unusual visitors to MEM? (like the Belgian AF A321 that landed the other day)

I for one would like to know when anything unusual pays a visit.

Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:25 pm
by jplatts
OccupiedLav wrote:
ThaneC wrote:
Spirit Airlines is rapidly growing and might be a good candidate to try MEM. There is clearly plenty of space and the terminal is under renovation. The question is can any new route be sustained.


Spirit is one of the few carriers that I am actually surprised hasn't started Memphis. I think the ULCCs can do pretty well with limited service in this market, as Allegiant has found. However, you hit it right on the head. I'm not sure Spirit service could be sustained with both Allegiant and Frontier already having a presence. On the other hand, Spirit coming in could force the other ULCCs to reduce or discontinue some routes.


There are some markets bigger by population than MEM that aren't currently served by NK such as STL, SLC, SAT, CVG, MKE, ORF, SDF, GSP, OKC, and GRR.

Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:41 pm
by WaywardMemphian
MEMber wrote:
ThaneC wrote:
Spirit Airlines is rapidly growing and might be a good candidate to try MEM. There is clearly plenty of space and the terminal is under renovation. The question is can any new route be sustained.


ULCC, while often ridiculed, do offer a viable alternative. It gives the consumer the ability to determine their own price (do I really need snacks? a coke? checked bag AND carry on?, etc.) I think spirit could do well here.


Carry BBQ on instead, lol

I imagine once things get consolidate on the redone B, the onsite BBQ will come back and hopefully with a brew pub featuring the local craft scene. Wiseacre is a solid outfit.

I've mentioned it before but TYS/MEM would likely do well for G4.

Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:44 pm
by WaywardMemphian
jplatts wrote:
OccupiedLav wrote:
ThaneC wrote:
Spirit Airlines is rapidly growing and might be a good candidate to try MEM. There is clearly plenty of space and the terminal is under renovation. The question is can any new route be sustained.


Spirit is one of the few carriers that I am actually surprised hasn't started Memphis. I think the ULCCs can do pretty well with limited service in this market, as Allegiant has found. However, you hit it right on the head. I'm not sure Spirit service could be sustained with both Allegiant and Frontier already having a presence. On the other hand, Spirit coming in could force the other ULCCs to reduce or discontinue some routes.


There are some markets bigger by population than MEM that aren't currently served by NK such as STL, SLC, SAT, CVG, MKE, ORF, SDF, GSP, OKC, and GRR.


OKC is not a bigger market not SDF. Memphis kinda sits on an island and has a larger catchment area than many give it credit for. MEM already has more enplanements than SDF, OKC, ORF, GRR and GSP.

Memphis has a legit 2 mil plus catchment area.

Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 4:12 pm
by jplatts
WaywardMemphian wrote:
OKC is not a bigger market not SDF. Memphis kinda sits on an island and has a larger catchment area than many give it credit for. MEM already has more enplanements than SDF, OKC, ORF, GRR and GSP.

Memphis has a legit 2 mil plus catchment area.


Here is a list of the population of the Combined Statistical Areas that ORF/PHF, SDF, GSP, OKC, GRR, and MEM are located in (Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statistical_area_(United_States)):
Virginia Beach-Norfolk, VA-NC Combined Statistical Area (ORF/PHF) - 1,854,604
Louisville/Jefferson County-Elizabethtown-Madison, KY-IN Combined Statistical Area (SDF) - 1,488,015
Greenville-Spartanburg-Anderson, SC Combined Statistical Area (GSP) - 1,478,658
Oklahoma City-Shawnee, OK Combined Statistical Area (OKC) - 1,469,124
Grand Rapids-Kentwood-Muskegon, MI Combined Statistical Area (GRR) - 1,406,918
Memphis-Forrest City, TN-MS-AR Combined Statistical Area (MEM) - 1,367,788

Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 4:19 pm
by ThaneC
Spirit might do OK at MEM since they an ultra-low-cost-carrier. Memphis area income levels are below other cities. If Spirit comes in and offers really cheap fares they might find a niche in a city where majority of the population can not afford air travel.

Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 4:25 pm
by jplatts
OccupiedLav wrote:
ThaneC wrote:
Spirit Airlines is rapidly growing and might be a good candidate to try MEM. There is clearly plenty of space and the terminal is under renovation. The question is can any new route be sustained.


Spirit is one of the few carriers that I am actually surprised hasn't started Memphis. I think the ULCCs can do pretty well with limited service in this market, as Allegiant has found. However, you hit it right on the head. I'm not sure Spirit service could be sustained with both Allegiant and Frontier already having a presence. On the other hand, Spirit coming in could force the other ULCCs to reduce or discontinue some routes.


NK might be able to make MEM-DTW nonstop service work due to (a) a significant NK presence at DTW, (b) the lack of nonstop competition of the MEM-DTW nonstop route, and (c) DTW point-of-sale leisure traffic to MEM due to various tourist attractions in the city of Memphis.

Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 4:42 pm
by malev2012
WaywardMemphian wrote:
jplatts wrote:
OccupiedLav wrote:

Spirit is one of the few carriers that I am actually surprised hasn't started Memphis. I think the ULCCs can do pretty well with limited service in this market, as Allegiant has found. However, you hit it right on the head. I'm not sure Spirit service could be sustained with both Allegiant and Frontier already having a presence. On the other hand, Spirit coming in could force the other ULCCs to reduce or discontinue some routes.


There are some markets bigger by population than MEM that aren't currently served by NK such as STL, SLC, SAT, CVG, MKE, ORF, SDF, GSP, OKC, and GRR.


OKC is not a bigger market not SDF. Memphis kinda sits on an island and has a larger catchment area than many give it credit for. MEM already has more enplanements than SDF, OKC, ORF, GRR and GSP.

Memphis has a legit 2 mil plus catchment area.


I agree that MEM is probably next for Spirit, the larger cities have already been taken care of and Spirit's recent growth in AUS and BNA, means cities the size of MEM are next in line for growth. I could see DTW, LAS, FLL to start, maybe BWI.

Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 4:56 pm
by MEMber
WaywardMemphian wrote:
MEMber wrote:
ThaneC wrote:
Spirit Airlines is rapidly growing and might be a good candidate to try MEM. There is clearly plenty of space and the terminal is under renovation. The question is can any new route be sustained.


ULCC, while often ridiculed, do offer a viable alternative. It gives the consumer the ability to determine their own price (do I really need snacks? a coke? checked bag AND carry on?, etc.) I think spirit could do well here.


Carry BBQ on instead, lol

I imagine once things get consolidate on the redone B, the onsite BBQ will come back and hopefully with a brew pub featuring the local craft scene. Wiseacre is a solid outfit.

I've mentioned it before but TYS/MEM would likely do well for G4.



Lol, could you imagine taking a Gotta Get Up to Get Down, Starless, or Oktoberfest onto Spirit. They'd probably try and find a way to charge you a "corkage fee" lol. In all reality though, doubtful any good breweries would open in MEM. Takes away from the local/craft experience to be in an airport, with extreme upcharges. Also market would be difficult as no one spends exuberant amounts of time in Memphis airports. No long layovers, don't need to get to airport hours early, etc. Only hope would be delayed passengers. Though I could be wrong.

Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 4:58 pm
by MEMber
jplatts wrote:
WaywardMemphian wrote:
OKC is not a bigger market not SDF. Memphis kinda sits on an island and has a larger catchment area than many give it credit for. MEM already has more enplanements than SDF, OKC, ORF, GRR and GSP.

Memphis has a legit 2 mil plus catchment area.


Here is a list of the population of the Combined Statistical Areas that ORF/PHF, SDF, GSP, OKC, GRR, and MEM are located in (Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statistical_area_(United_States)):
Virginia Beach-Norfolk, VA-NC Combined Statistical Area (ORF/PHF) - 1,854,604
Louisville/Jefferson County-Elizabethtown-Madison, KY-IN Combined Statistical Area (SDF) - 1,488,015
Greenville-Spartanburg-Anderson, SC Combined Statistical Area (GSP) - 1,478,658
Oklahoma City-Shawnee, OK Combined Statistical Area (OKC) - 1,469,124
Grand Rapids-Kentwood-Muskegon, MI Combined Statistical Area (GRR) - 1,406,918
Memphis-Forrest City, TN-MS-AR Combined Statistical Area (MEM) - 1,367,788



The oil market of OKC makes short distance travel (HOU, Dallas, etc) very popular and frequent. Oil companies have business trips weekly. I would argue that OKC is a bigger airline market than MEM.

Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 5:34 pm
by WaywardMemphian
jplatts wrote:
WaywardMemphian wrote:
OKC is not a bigger market not SDF. Memphis kinda sits on an island and has a larger catchment area than many give it credit for. MEM already has more enplanements than SDF, OKC, ORF, GRR and GSP.

Memphis has a legit 2 mil plus catchment area.


Here is a list of the population of the Combined Statistical Areas that ORF/PHF, SDF, GSP, OKC, GRR, and MEM are located in (Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statistical_area_(United_States)):
Virginia Beach-Norfolk, VA-NC Combined Statistical Area (ORF/PHF) - 1,854,604
Louisville/Jefferson County-Elizabethtown-Madison, KY-IN Combined Statistical Area (SDF) - 1,488,015
Greenville-Spartanburg-Anderson, SC Combined Statistical Area (GSP) - 1,478,658
Oklahoma City-Shawnee, OK Combined Statistical Area (OKC) - 1,469,124
Grand Rapids-Kentwood-Muskegon, MI Combined Statistical Area (GRR) - 1,406,918
Memphis-Forrest City, TN-MS-AR Combined Statistical Area (MEM) - 1,367,788


Again, you are going by the wrong metric. Go by what is considered the Memphis market typically defined as being cover by local Memphis TV news. Those numbers leave out the Jonesboro/Paragould area and the Tupelo MS area. Those are default MEM markets that you completely leave out. Because this area is an island. There is no nearby large airport or hub anywhere as close as Memphis. Throw in the Missouri Boothill area, Oxford Ms. Area, Northwest TN and Jackson TN area as well.

The round about MEM catchment area is 2.2 million. It can be more if you throw in potential bleed from places like Little Rock or Jackson Ms if the nonstops and fares are compelling enough for the short drive.

You see those results in the enplanements and the continued O&D growth.

Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 6:05 pm
by malev2012
WaywardMemphian wrote:
jplatts wrote:
WaywardMemphian wrote:
OKC is not a bigger market not SDF. Memphis kinda sits on an island and has a larger catchment area than many give it credit for. MEM already has more enplanements than SDF, OKC, ORF, GRR and GSP.

Memphis has a legit 2 mil plus catchment area.


Here is a list of the population of the Combined Statistical Areas that ORF/PHF, SDF, GSP, OKC, GRR, and MEM are located in (Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statistical_area_(United_States)):
Virginia Beach-Norfolk, VA-NC Combined Statistical Area (ORF/PHF) - 1,854,604
Louisville/Jefferson County-Elizabethtown-Madison, KY-IN Combined Statistical Area (SDF) - 1,488,015
Greenville-Spartanburg-Anderson, SC Combined Statistical Area (GSP) - 1,478,658
Oklahoma City-Shawnee, OK Combined Statistical Area (OKC) - 1,469,124
Grand Rapids-Kentwood-Muskegon, MI Combined Statistical Area (GRR) - 1,406,918
Memphis-Forrest City, TN-MS-AR Combined Statistical Area (MEM) - 1,367,788


Again, you are going by the wrong metric. Go by what is considered the Memphis market typically defined as being cover by local Memphis TV news. Those numbers leave out the Jonesboro/Paragould area and the Tupelo MS area. Those are default MEM markets that you completely leave out. Because this area is an island. There is no nearby large airport or hub anywhere as close as Memphis. Throw in the Missouri Boothill area, Oxford Ms. Area, Northwest TN and Jackson TN area as well.

The round about MEM catchment area is 2.2 million. It can be more if you throw in potential bleed from places like Little Rock or Jackson Ms if the nonstops and fares are compelling enough for the short drive.

You see those results in the enplanements and the continued O&D growth.


Agree as unlike OKC where the southern catchment area contends with lots of leakage into DFW, I feel Spirit flights could really draw from the broader catchment area including Little Rock and having more flights operating brings the overall cost per emplacement down. Also it could generate more visits to Memphis and improve tourism dollars further boasting the economy.

Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 6:47 pm
by WaywardMemphian
malev2012 wrote:
WaywardMemphian wrote:
jplatts wrote:

Here is a list of the population of the Combined Statistical Areas that ORF/PHF, SDF, GSP, OKC, GRR, and MEM are located in (Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statistical_area_(United_States)):
Virginia Beach-Norfolk, VA-NC Combined Statistical Area (ORF/PHF) - 1,854,604
Louisville/Jefferson County-Elizabethtown-Madison, KY-IN Combined Statistical Area (SDF) - 1,488,015
Greenville-Spartanburg-Anderson, SC Combined Statistical Area (GSP) - 1,478,658
Oklahoma City-Shawnee, OK Combined Statistical Area (OKC) - 1,469,124
Grand Rapids-Kentwood-Muskegon, MI Combined Statistical Area (GRR) - 1,406,918
Memphis-Forrest City, TN-MS-AR Combined Statistical Area (MEM) - 1,367,788


Again, you are going by the wrong metric. Go by what is considered the Memphis market typically defined as being cover by local Memphis TV news. Those numbers leave out the Jonesboro/Paragould area and the Tupelo MS area. Those are default MEM markets that you completely leave out. Because this area is an island. There is no nearby large airport or hub anywhere as close as Memphis. Throw in the Missouri Boothill area, Oxford Ms. Area, Northwest TN and Jackson TN area as well.

The round about MEM catchment area is 2.2 million. It can be more if you throw in potential bleed from places like Little Rock or Jackson Ms if the nonstops and fares are compelling enough for the short drive.

You see those results in the enplanements and the continued O&D growth.


Agree as unlike OKC where the southern catchment area contends with lots of leakage into DFW, I feel Spirit flights could really draw from the broader catchment area including Little Rock and having more flights operating brings the overall cost per emplacement down. Also it could generate more visits to Memphis and improve tourism dollars further boasting the economy.


I'm going into a bit further detail on why Platt's MSA list is the wrong thing. One would think the Memphis MSA would include most of Northeast Arkansas. It doesn't. A 20 minute drive from a bridge in Memphis and your out of it. Mississippi, Craighead, and Greene Cos are missing. That's Jonesboro, Paragould and Blytheville. That's 200k more.
Tupelo/Oxford/Northeast MS is missing, that's 150k more. Jackson TN is missing, another 100k. Northwest Tenn is missing, that's at least 50k missing. You get into some shady areas like north central Arkansas like Batesville where it's a coin flip between LIT and MEM

Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 7:23 pm
by ThaneC
The rankings of US TV markets show Memphis as #51, behind cities like Birmingham (#43), Norfolk (#44), Oklahoma City (#45), Louisville (#48), Grand Rapids (#49). MSA areas are the metric most often used by airline planning departments.

Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 7:35 pm
by OccupiedLav
Check out this video from MEM's instagram account. It shows a jet bridge being blown into the terminal building a few nights ago.
https://www.instagram.com/p/B4Aq-n3AStp/?hl=en

How do they keep the planes from getting damaged in storms like this? I know DL usually has a few spend the night, and Fedex likely had a number of aircraft on the ground during this.

Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 8:01 pm
by southsky
ThaneC wrote:
The rankings of US TV markets show Memphis as #51, behind cities like Birmingham (#43), Norfolk (#44), Oklahoma City (#45), Louisville (#48), Grand Rapids (#49). MSA areas are the metric most often used by airline planning departments.


You start by listing DMAs then talk about MSAs being used by planning departments. It looks like you're trying to gaslight this thread...

Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 8:35 pm
by malev2012
southsky wrote:
ThaneC wrote:
The rankings of US TV markets show Memphis as #51, behind cities like Birmingham (#43), Norfolk (#44), Oklahoma City (#45), Louisville (#48), Grand Rapids (#49). MSA areas are the metric most often used by airline planning departments.


You start by listing DMAs then talk about MSAs being used by planning departments. It looks like you're trying to gaslight this thread...


We all know that Memphis is transitioning from being a hub with sky high fares to one with more competition although fewer non-stops. This is the narritive that needs to change by getting more ULCC flights to stimulate traffic: https://upgradedpoints.com/fastest-grow ... -in-the-us

Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 9:49 pm
by WaywardMemphian
southsky wrote:
ThaneC wrote:
The rankings of US TV markets show Memphis as #51, behind cities like Birmingham (#43), Norfolk (#44), Oklahoma City (#45), Louisville (#48), Grand Rapids (#49). MSA areas are the metric most often used by airline planning departments.


You start by listing DMAs then talk about MSAs being used by planning departments. It looks like you're trying to gaslight this thread...


Not only that, Technically Jonesboro and Tupelo are their own tv media markets and not included in Memphis' numbers and yet again, they are firmly withing MEM's service area. Those towns also have always had Memphis stationsavailible to them and Memphis stations cover those areas. He really hasn't a clue, he just rags on Memphis.I haven't even covered the US 64 corridor that extends to Hardinman and McNairy Cos and the Corinth MS area. Again, primary MEM areas even though not in the MEM MSA. North Mississippi via US 72 and US 78/I-22 are easy drives to MEM.

Do yourself a favor, go to the Great Circle Mapper and do about a 125 nm mile radius of MEM and there's your 2 to 2 1/2 hr drive to MEM and note your options from the outer area is LIT, JAN, BHM, BNA and STL with even less service or longer drives.

Like I said Memphis is an island, think of it as the Big Island and it has lots of small seperate islands around it but it is all part of the same archipelago. All the small islands paddle to it because it is big one in the middle with the airport with the most potential.

Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2019 2:48 pm
by TheZ
More info on the damage from Monday's storm - apparently the bridge at A27 was damaged beyond repair:
https://wreg.com/2019/10/24/memphis-air ... -by-storm/

Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2019 3:35 pm
by OccupiedLav
It looks like at least one aircraft at MEM was damaged in the storm. I just found this video posted on instagram by loaltitude. It shows a UPS 757 with some significant damage. There's a pretty big gash in the fuselage.

https://www.instagram.com/p/B39ixhDFDXI/

Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2019 4:13 pm
by WaywardMemphian
OccupiedLav wrote:
It looks like at least one aircraft at MEM was damaged in the storm. I just found this video posted on instagram by loaltitude. It shows a UPS 757 with some significant damage. There's a pretty big gash in the fuselage.

https://www.instagram.com/p/B39ixhDFDXI/


That front was tough.

It nearly got my Mother In Law and Sister In Laws houses here in NWA. The EF2 was real close to scoring a direct hit on XNA.
An EF1 damaged the cementary where My Father and Grandparents are buried in Tyronza AR and whatever hit MEM was with a couple of miles of my Mother's house in East Memphis. Now we have over 3inches of rain in the last 24hrs in NWA.

Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2019 6:45 pm
by IAHWorldflyer
I was at MEM on Monday 10/21 after that tornado blew through. I walked down by A27 since my flight was delayed, and saw that damage. At the time though, I didn't know if it was part of the construction work on the B gates.
Does anyone know why there was a Delta 757 remote parked on 10/21 between A and B? Seemed odd, possibly a charter. I don't think DL flys 757's into MEM anymore.

Re: Memphis Aviation - 2019

Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2019 8:22 pm
by MEMFLY
IAHWorldflyer wrote:
I was at MEM on Monday 10/21 after that tornado blew through. I walked down by A27 since my flight was delayed, and saw that damage. At the time though, I didn't know if it was part of the construction work on the B gates.
Does anyone know why there was a Delta 757 remote parked on 10/21 between A and B? Seemed odd, possibly a charter. I don't think DL flys 757's into MEM anymore.

Most likely one of the NBA chartered special config DL 757