Noshow
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Re: BR Flight Attendant Subjected to Unreasonable Requests by Disabled Pax of Size

Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:01 am

It was a handicapped passenger travelling that is okay and normal to do. Fat, white and old, that's pure racism that should have nothing to do with it, right?
However if one needs assistance one should travel with somebody providing this and not rely on cabin crew for medical help. He seems to permanently need a nurse or similar?
 
avier
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Re: BR Flight Attendant Subjected to Unreasonable Requests by Disabled Pax of Size

Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:52 am

Osiris wrote:
"Disabled passenger of size"... Haha. Wow.

What a time to be alive.


He was probably disabled because of his size.

Anyways, fat people (some I've encountered) and their attitude disgust me. They always make other people look guilty for their problems. They love playing victim and using that as an excuse to thrash other people down. They feel their size = power/authority , over others.
 
coolfish1103
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Re: BR Flight Attendant Subjected to Unreasonable Requests by Disabled Pax of Size

Tue Jan 22, 2019 12:39 pm

KICT wrote:
I'm sorry, who exactly "forced" this FA to do this?


I don't think anyone forced the CP to wipe the ass, she probably did it to avoid having to write reports or feel EVA will lecture her for the incident.

The one on the press is not the one who wiped.
 
wezgulf3
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Re: BR Flight Attendant Subjected to Unreasonable Requests by Disabled Pax of Size

Tue Jan 22, 2019 12:45 pm

Cointrin330 wrote:
This is so gross, I do not know where to start.


I think it’s normally front to back!?
 
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SomebodyInTLS
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Re: BR Flight Attendant Subjected to Unreasonable Requests by Disabled Pax of Size

Tue Jan 22, 2019 12:55 pm

ltbewr wrote:
JAGflyer wrote:
Forgive my assumptions but this guy sounds/looks like a "frequent flyer" who's primary destination are the brothels of Thailand. He seems to fit the profile of one of those creeps who goes just to pay (barely legal) people for sexual service.

Likely and may involve women who are under 18 and not legal for adults to have sex with in most of the world as well as liking unusual forms of sex, probably has to pay for it to get any sex, has difficulty in part due to their obesity.

I suspect the BR F/A's are in a difficult position. Parts of Asian culture make women to be subservient to men as part of their duties even if demeaning as well as fear of keeping their jobs if decline to do certain services.


Propagate unfounded stereotypes much (passenger and FA)?
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asgard17
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Re: BR Flight Attendant Subjected to Unreasonable Requests by Disabled Pax of Size

Tue Jan 22, 2019 2:10 pm

alesfr wrote:
Being "of size" is nobody's fault. And if it becomes a disability then society needs to provide all the possible care to ensure that the person with that disability can travel safely and comfortably wherever and whenever he/she wants.


This is only occasionally true. Usually, it's the person's fault. I'm a little overweight myself and I can guarantee you it is completely my fault. This guy is just a disgusting asshole. He violated the flight attendant who definitely went above and beyond the call of duty. Some people just have no regard for others. It sickens me.
 
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Erebus
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Re: BR Flight Attendant Subjected to Unreasonable Requests by Disabled Pax of Size

Tue Jan 22, 2019 2:24 pm

I regret opening this thread while having breakfast. Thread title could have been a little bit more clearer... :yuck:
 
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MillwallSean
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Re: BR Flight Attendant Subjected to Unreasonable Requests by Disabled Pax of Size

Tue Jan 22, 2019 2:45 pm

Hmm, I think most of us here looked at the Taiwanese newspaper articles provided with the OP. The flight from LAX to TPE saw an American male, traveling to Thailand, of 200 kg demand three seats as he boarded with his wheelchair. he was so fat that he needed that.
He had a history of behaving bad at Eva, he had asked for help before and when not given there had been an accident in the seat.
The dear cabin manager eventually had to wipe his arse and he moaned and said harder (whether that's true or not doesn't matter, the fact that the cabin manager had to wipe his arse is more than enough)

The airline will investigate. Lucky crew...

Yes the man is obese and use a mobility scooter. His appearance you can check out yourselves.
http://www.asiaone.com/asia/overweight- ... s-backside

Hmm and poor Thai girls that he is going to visit. Not a wild guess to assume that they stay on top...
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Jetty
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Re: BR Flight Attendant Subjected to Unreasonable Requests by Disabled Pax of Size

Tue Jan 22, 2019 2:48 pm

wezgulf3 wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
This is so gross, I do not know where to start.


I think it’s normally front to back!?

:rotfl:
 
Cush
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Re: BR Flight Attendant Subjected to Unreasonable Requests by Disabled Pax of Size

Tue Jan 22, 2019 3:01 pm

I don't think people that are extremely overweight or with certain disabilities/problems should be alone on flights. People just assume "they are the airlines problem now", which isn't fair. The FA's aren't being paid to wipe someone or take care of your loved ones. FA's are there to serve the passengers by providing assistance in the event of an emergency, as well as other in-flight duties.

It reminds me of something i observed one time. I had just got off a LONG flight from DXB to IAD and had 1 more segment until I was finally home. We had a slight wait for takeoff due to weather, but we were finally airborne. I couldn't wait to get home. Then we heard it... There was a very crippled, elderly, and sick looking old man (80's to 90's i would guess) on our flight. A loud "Ughhh no it's happening" was heard and the flight attendance yelled back to ask if everything is ok. He said, "no, i need bathroom. it's happening". The FA (understandably) couldn't get up from her seat because we were in the steepest part of the climb, and she asked the passenger if he could wait, and he said no. She told him he could use the lavatory at his own risk, and he complained he can't move and needs help with everything, including his pants. Everyone around was shocked. Long story short, he didn't make it to the bathroom, and I felt badly for those passengers in the far rear of the aircraft with him.

In conclusion, if you can't take care of yourself 100% (Walk, talk, use the bathroom, and behave), then you shouldn't be allowed to board. It is nothing against those with a handicap, but, a matter of safety and consideration of others.
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idlewild
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Re: BR Flight Attendant Subjected to Unreasonable Requests by Disabled Pax of Size

Tue Jan 22, 2019 3:26 pm

I don't believe the story. Or, if it is true, not the whole story is coming out. Seriously? A stewardess all by herself decided to wipe a hiney without her supervisor's approval? And would any supervisor worth his or her salt okay this, being a non-medical emergency? Would a supervisor even do the dirty deed without consulting a hire-up via company radio? Let's think very hard about how such a process would go through the motions on something like this before we become outraged.
 
Etheereal
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Re: BR Flight Attendant Subjected to Unreasonable Requests by Disabled Pax of Size

Tue Jan 22, 2019 3:30 pm

Cush wrote:
I don't think people that are extremely overweight or with certain disabilities/problems should be alone on flights. People just assume "they are the airlines problem now", which isn't fair. The FA's aren't being paid to wipe someone or take care of your loved ones. FA's are there to serve the passengers by providing assistance in the event of an emergency, as well as other in-flight duties.

It reminds me of something i observed one time. I had just got off a LONG flight from DXB to IAD and had 1 more segment until I was finally home. We had a slight wait for takeoff due to weather, but we were finally airborne. I couldn't wait to get home. Then we heard it... There was a very crippled, elderly, and sick looking old man (80's to 90's i would guess) on our flight. A loud "Ughhh no it's happening" was heard and the flight attendance yelled back to ask if everything is ok. He said, "no, i need bathroom. it's happening". The FA (understandably) couldn't get up from her seat because we were in the steepest part of the climb, and she asked the passenger if he could wait, and he said no. She told him he could use the lavatory at his own risk, and he complained he can't move and needs help with everything, including his pants. Everyone around was shocked. Long story short, he didn't make it to the bathroom, and I felt badly for those passengers in the far rear of the aircraft with him.

In conclusion, if you can't take care of yourself 100% (Walk, talk, use the bathroom, and behave), then you shouldn't be allowed to board. It is nothing against those with a handicap, but, a matter of safety and consideration of others.

Not judging you, but since you posted this, do you think the "elderly lady on a wheelchair" that was abandoned on AA gate was her own fault as well?
JetBuddy wrote:
"737 slides off the runway" is the new "Florida man"..

:lol:
 
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tlecam
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Re: BR Flight Attendant Subjected to Unreasonable Requests by Disabled Pax of Size

Tue Jan 22, 2019 3:45 pm

Cush wrote:
I don't think people that are extremely overweight or with certain disabilities/problems should be alone on flights. People just assume "they are the airlines problem now", which isn't fair. The FA's aren't being paid to wipe someone or take care of your loved ones. FA's are there to serve the passengers by providing assistance in the event of an emergency, as well as other in-flight duties.

It reminds me of something i observed one time. I had just got off a LONG flight from DXB to IAD and had 1 more segment until I was finally home. We had a slight wait for takeoff due to weather, but we were finally airborne. I couldn't wait to get home. Then we heard it... There was a very crippled, elderly, and sick looking old man (80's to 90's i would guess) on our flight. A loud "Ughhh no it's happening" was heard and the flight attendance yelled back to ask if everything is ok. He said, "no, i need bathroom. it's happening". The FA (understandably) couldn't get up from her seat because we were in the steepest part of the climb, and she asked the passenger if he could wait, and he said no. She told him he could use the lavatory at his own risk, and he complained he can't move and needs help with everything, including his pants. Everyone around was shocked. Long story short, he didn't make it to the bathroom, and I felt badly for those passengers in the far rear of the aircraft with him.

In conclusion, if you can't take care of yourself 100% (Walk, talk, use the bathroom, and behave), then you shouldn't be allowed to board. It is nothing against those with a handicap, but, a matter of safety and consideration of others.


As a practical matter, I more or less agree with you. I also don't think this is specific to "people of size" - but also applies to the elderly, young children and others. They should be accompanied by a family member, friend or assistant and I suspect that the vast majority of the time they are. As is often the case, we're dealing with the small minority who do not use common sense.

I am also fairly certain that crafting a rule or standard for this would be next to impossible.
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LH748
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Re: BR Flight Attendant Subjected to Unreasonable Requests by Disabled Pax of Size

Tue Jan 22, 2019 4:03 pm

This passenger was clearly not looking for actual help but just used his condition to torment and abuse the flight attendant.
It's absolutely unacceptable behavior
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Re: BR Flight Attendant Subjected to Unreasonable Requests by Disabled Pax of Size

Tue Jan 22, 2019 4:06 pm

alesfr wrote:
Wait wait wait. Lots of assumptions in the original post, we are not MDs and even if we are we haven't seen the pan nor assisted to the scene. Maybe the aircraft toilets were not big enough to let him do everything by himself (in comparison to those of the airport).

Perhaps this person requires someone accompanying and assisting him during his travels, but let's refrain from judging or calling him a creep if we don't know about the exact circumstances of the facts related.

Being "of size" is nobody's fault. And if it becomes a disability then society needs to provide all the possible care to ensure that the person with that disability can travel safely and comfortably wherever and whenever he/she wants.


Wrong, wrong, wrong! Let’s cut out the PC nonsense, shall we? The passenger was fat, plain and simple! Yes, most people who are fat or obese are responsible for their bulk. Claiming a disability because of being fat or obese is such nonsense and is merely a crutch to gain special treatment.

This passenger sounds like a total creeper and might have some sort of weird fetish for having people attend to his bathroom needs. Ban this guy from flying all carriers!
 
alesfr
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Re: BR Flight Attendant Subjected to Unreasonable Requests by Disabled Pax of Size

Tue Jan 22, 2019 6:15 pm

KentB27 wrote:
alesfr wrote:
Being "of size" is nobody's fault.


That is absolutely not true. If someone is morbidly obese, it's their own fault. They're the one who crammed the food down their face and didn't manage their diet and caloric intake properly.


A large number of diseases is provoked by people's behavior. But you'd never say that if someone has cancer then it's his/her fault...
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alesfr
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Re: BR Flight Attendant Subjected to Unreasonable Requests by Disabled Pax of Size

Tue Jan 22, 2019 6:19 pm

GE90man wrote:
alesfr wrote:
Wait wait wait. Lots of assumptions in the original post, we are not MDs and even if we are we haven't seen the pan nor assisted to the scene. Maybe the aircraft toilets were not big enough to let him do everything by himself (in comparison to those of the airport).

Perhaps this person requires someone accompanying and assisting him during his travels, but let's refrain from judging or calling him a creep if we don't know about the exact circumstances of the facts related.

Being "of size" is nobody's fault. And if it becomes a disability then society needs to provide all the possible care to ensure that the person with that disability can travel safely and comfortably wherever and whenever he/she wants.


It gets to a point where it's no longer safe for someone to travel because of their body and size, and I say this in a nondiscriminatory way. If you can't properly take care of yourself, you definitely should not being flying alone.


A lot of people should not be allowed to fly if you consider their medical conditions. But it would be to difficult to establish lists of able/not able to fly. Unless countries start introducing mandatory medical assessment, valid for one year for example, certifying that one is fit to fly as a PAX...
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alesfr
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Re: BR Flight Attendant Subjected to Unreasonable Requests by Disabled Pax of Size

Tue Jan 22, 2019 6:20 pm

anrec80 wrote:
alesfr wrote:
Perhaps this person requires someone accompanying and assisting him during his travels, but let's refrain from judging or calling him a creep if we don't know about the exact circumstances of the facts related.

Being "of size" is nobody's fault. And if it becomes a disability then society needs to provide all the possible care to ensure that the person with that disability can travel safely and comfortably wherever and whenever he/she wants.


Again "society". If you have a disability or a medical condition - please bring in an aide. Be considerate to other passengers around you. Flight crew has 350 other pax to help.

Nearly all disability and LTC insurance policies provide coverage for one. If he is a frequent flier - he certainly can afford such policy (or at least could when he was healthy). If one doesn't take care of their own financial security - it's not "society", an airline or flight attendant fault or problem. Please sit at home in that case.


In Europe we see things a little bit differently on this topic ;-)
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alesfr
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Re: BR Flight Attendant Subjected to Unreasonable Requests by Disabled Pax of Size

Tue Jan 22, 2019 6:26 pm

asgard17 wrote:
alesfr wrote:
Being "of size" is nobody's fault. And if it becomes a disability then society needs to provide all the possible care to ensure that the person with that disability can travel safely and comfortably wherever and whenever he/she wants.


This is only occasionally true. Usually, it's the person's fault. I'm a little overweight myself and I can guarantee you it is completely my fault. This guy is just a disgusting asshole. He violated the flight attendant who definitely went above and beyond the call of duty. Some people just have no regard for others. It sickens me.


We all have behaviors which endanger our health. But we rarely say that it's someone's fault if he/she develops a more serious disease. You'd never say "she's got lungs cancer, it's her fault". You'd say "she was a heavy smoker, she exposed herself to risks, etc", but you would not talk of "fault". So why use that word for obesity?
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alesfr
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Re: BR Flight Attendant Subjected to Unreasonable Requests by Disabled Pax of Size

Tue Jan 22, 2019 6:29 pm

MSPSXMFLIER wrote:

Wrong, wrong, wrong! Let’s cut out the PC nonsense, shall we? The passenger was fat, plain and simple! Yes, most people who are fat or obese are responsible for their bulk. Claiming a disability because of being fat or obese is such nonsense and is merely a crutch to gain special treatment.

This passenger sounds like a total creeper and might have some sort of weird fetish for having people attend to his bathroom needs. Ban this guy from flying all carriers!


Calm down dude, we're here to discuss.
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Re: BR Flight Attendant Subjected to Unreasonable Requests by Disabled Pax of Size

Tue Jan 22, 2019 6:38 pm

My first thought (after nearly puking in my cornflakes) upon reading this thread was to the "Mr Creosote" bit in Monty Python's Meaning of Life...
 
WayexTDI
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Re: BR Flight Attendant Subjected to Unreasonable Requests by Disabled Pax of Size

Tue Jan 22, 2019 6:39 pm

alesfr wrote:
asgard17 wrote:
alesfr wrote:
Being "of size" is nobody's fault. And if it becomes a disability then society needs to provide all the possible care to ensure that the person with that disability can travel safely and comfortably wherever and whenever he/she wants.


This is only occasionally true. Usually, it's the person's fault. I'm a little overweight myself and I can guarantee you it is completely my fault. This guy is just a disgusting asshole. He violated the flight attendant who definitely went above and beyond the call of duty. Some people just have no regard for others. It sickens me.


We all have behaviors which endanger our health. But we rarely say that it's someone's fault if he/she develops a more serious disease. You'd never say "she's got lungs cancer, it's her fault". You'd say "she was a heavy smoker, she exposed herself to risks, etc", but you would not talk of "fault". So why use that word for obesity?

Because obesity, when a consequence of poor eating habits and not an hormonal disorder, can be reversed and cured by change lifestyle; also, because overeating WILL lead to obesity.
On the contrary, if you stop smoking once you have lung cancer, the cancer will not disappear by itself; and not all smokers will develop lung cancer.
 
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Re: BR Flight Attendant Subjected to Unreasonable Requests by Disabled Pax of Size

Tue Jan 22, 2019 6:51 pm

77H wrote:
TheLion wrote:
Agree with most of your points on here. No FA should ever have to wipe someone’s ass. That is not in any way their job, and could actually compromise safety if they were engaged while an incident occurred.

The description of this odious man makes him seem like a creep who falsely portrays his size as a disability to get people to wipe his rear. The mind boggles.

He seems like a real troublemaker who may well be committing sexual harassment. In my view, at the very least he should be banned from flying with BR and indeed all airlines for a long time.

Also, most but not all fat people are in part to blame for their size. Unlike skin colour or sexuality, size and religion usually are entirely a result of the individual’s choices.

And “of size”?! Call him what he is, fat, overweight or large. I’m leftist on most things, but this really is political correctness gone mad!


If fat is too insulting, my suggestion would be obese or morbidly obese as these are medical terms. But that is largely irrelevant as I am in agreement that the lack of personal accountability and this notion that society should cater to other people's chosen shortcomings is reaching critical mass. Most of the people in my family are obese and it is due to personal choices. That said, there are conditions that can cause runway obesity but I would be surprised to find out that is more often than not the case vs eating/dietary habits.

As others have said, frequent flier or not, there is no way I'd do it. Not sure what employee protections Taiwan has in place but I would be certain that if this was on a US carrier and the FA was fired over it, there would be a wrongful termination lawsuit not long after the main gear hit the pavement.

77H


Some sensible points. I wholly agree.
 
hayzel777
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Re: BR Flight Attendant Subjected to Unreasonable Requests by Disabled Pax of Size

Tue Jan 22, 2019 7:21 pm

idlewild wrote:
I don't believe the story. Or, if it is true, not the whole story is coming out. Seriously? A stewardess all by herself decided to wipe a hiney without her supervisor's approval? And would any supervisor worth his or her salt okay this, being a non-medical emergency? Would a supervisor even do the dirty deed without consulting a hire-up via company radio? Let's think very hard about how such a process would go through the motions on something like this before we become outraged.

The cabin manager made the call to wipe and she felt she could not make her junior crew do it so she did it herself. The man threatened to remain on the toilet if they did not, which is a safety issue. The flight was predicted to be extremely turbulent and he had blocked off a bathroom that other pax needed to use. Had he fallen off the toilet because of turbulence, the airline would be sued and the crew would lose their licenses for allowing it to even happen (no matter the circumstance, there are strict procedures by the CAA). Therefore, the CP took it upon herself to do the wiping while the crew held the man up. The crew member's grief was both for herself and the CP. Contacting the company would be useless; the dispatcher would have a very hard time finding a manager because of the timing issue (incident happened at 7pm TPE time, staff already at home) and the fact that the cabin manager has final say on events in the cabin.

Just a little history of the pax's behavior on BR:
- The man defecated himself on the same LAX-TPE flight in May 2018. Fellow pax complained to BR, who then called the crew in for a discipline hearing. The crew were left off with a warning but were told that they should've never let it get to that point.
- He pissed himself on another flight in his seat. This incident resulted in the aircraft being pulled off the line for mx to replace and clean the area.
- On a TPE-BKK flight, he demanded that the crew change and clean his diaper for him. They refused, and the diaper overflowed. Luckily, the return load was light and the cabin area was blocked off for TPE mx to do a cleaning and replacement in the area.
- On another flight, he threatened to faint and make the crew's life worse if they refused to help him in the bathroom.
- On the connecting journey this time, he spilled juice all over his crotch. He flagged down the flight attendant to help wipe it; she gave him napkins but he demanded she wipe it for him, saying "You can do better than me". The crew eventually wiped for him.
Last edited by hayzel777 on Tue Jan 22, 2019 7:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
alesfr
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Re: BR Flight Attendant Subjected to Unreasonable Requests by Disabled Pax of Size

Tue Jan 22, 2019 7:21 pm

WayexTDI wrote:
alesfr wrote:
asgard17 wrote:

This is only occasionally true. Usually, it's the person's fault. I'm a little overweight myself and I can guarantee you it is completely my fault. This guy is just a disgusting asshole. He violated the flight attendant who definitely went above and beyond the call of duty. Some people just have no regard for others. It sickens me.


We all have behaviors which endanger our health. But we rarely say that it's someone's fault if he/she develops a more serious disease. You'd never say "she's got lungs cancer, it's her fault". You'd say "she was a heavy smoker, she exposed herself to risks, etc", but you would not talk of "fault". So why use that word for obesity?

Because obesity, when a consequence of poor eating habits and not an hormonal disorder, can be reversed and cured by change lifestyle; also, because overeating WILL lead to obesity.
On the contrary, if you stop smoking once you have lung cancer, the cancer will not disappear by itself; and not all smokers will develop lung cancer.


It's not that simple! Metabolism has its role too and it's not enough to stop eating to lose weight. Overeating does not necessarily lead to obesity neither, like smoking does not necessarily lead to lung cancer. Also, lung cancer is one of hundreds of other examples...
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buzzard302
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Re: BR Flight Attendant Subjected to Unreasonable Requests by Disabled Pax of Size

Tue Jan 22, 2019 7:34 pm

Etheereal wrote:
Not judging you, but since you posted this, do you think the "elderly lady on a wheelchair" that was abandoned on AA gate was her own fault as well?


That story was shown to be not what it originally seemed.

https://nypost.com/2018/12/04/american- ... -stranded/

More proof you can't believe one side of a story and/or everything you read online.
 
WayexTDI
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Re: BR Flight Attendant Subjected to Unreasonable Requests by Disabled Pax of Size

Tue Jan 22, 2019 7:43 pm

alesfr wrote:
WayexTDI wrote:
alesfr wrote:

We all have behaviors which endanger our health. But we rarely say that it's someone's fault if he/she develops a more serious disease. You'd never say "she's got lungs cancer, it's her fault". You'd say "she was a heavy smoker, she exposed herself to risks, etc", but you would not talk of "fault". So why use that word for obesity?

Because obesity, when a consequence of poor eating habits and not an hormonal disorder, can be reversed and cured by change lifestyle; also, because overeating WILL lead to obesity.
On the contrary, if you stop smoking once you have lung cancer, the cancer will not disappear by itself; and not all smokers will develop lung cancer.


It's not that simple! Metabolism has its role too and it's not enough to stop eating to lose weight. Overeating does not necessarily lead to obesity neither, like smoking does not necessarily lead to lung cancer. Also, lung cancer is one of hundreds of other examples...

If your calorie intake is less than your usage, your body will use its own reserves (i.e., fat). The weight loss will no doubt be slow but will exist.

Again, as been pointed out numerous times before, the majority of obese people are obese due to their own action. Please understand what majority means: it doesn't mean every single person and you will be able to find counter examples of course.
 
mwhcvt
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Re: BR Flight Attendant Subjected to Unreasonable Requests by Disabled Pax of Size

Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:28 pm

I’m a disabled person of size, any you know what I’m horrified at this story, honestly what a horrid subhuman he must be, there are times when personal/intimate assistance is needed hell I’ve needed it myself in the past when hospitalised and it’s properly degrading to need such help, but if this guy really needs such help he should be travelling with a personal career or nurse...but from the sounding of the story this was more about some kind of sexual gratification and that being the case he should be facing criminal charges
Must think up a new one soon, slow moving brain trying to get into gear ;)
 
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Re: BR Flight Attendant Subjected to Unreasonable Requests by Disabled Pax of Size

Tue Jan 22, 2019 9:43 pm

alesfr wrote:
MSPSXMFLIER wrote:

Wrong, wrong, wrong! Let’s cut out the PC nonsense, shall we? The passenger was fat, plain and simple! Yes, most people who are fat or obese are responsible for their bulk. Claiming a disability because of being fat or obese is such nonsense and is merely a crutch to gain special treatment.

This passenger sounds like a total creeper and might have some sort of weird fetish for having people attend to his bathroom needs. Ban this guy from flying all carriers!


Calm down dude, we're here to discuss.


How is it indicated that I'm less than calm? Like others on this thread, I'm merely expressing my opinion. Perhaps you should avoid making assumptions?
 
johns624
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Re: BR Flight Attendant Subjected to Unreasonable Requests by Disabled Pax of Size

Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:01 pm

alesfr wrote:
In Europe we see things a little bit differently on this topic ;-)
No, you see things differently. I don't think that you speak for a whole continent. There are people on this forum from throughout the world and you're the only one to defend this pervert's actions.
 
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Erebus
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Re: BR Flight Attendant Subjected to Unreasonable Requests by Disabled Pax of Size

Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:16 pm

KICT wrote:
Hopefully he faces a sizable fine.


I'd hope he gets more than that. Like getting on the registered sex offenders list and banned from flying on any carrier.
 
SurlyBonds
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Re: BR Flight Attendant Subjected to Unreasonable Requests by Disabled Pax of Size

Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:47 pm

First, let me stipulate that no flight attendant should have to endure what this one did, and BR ought to ban the man in question.

That said, the level of bigotry and discrimination in this thread is shocking.

Disabled people shouldn't be allowed to fly? Check. (Probably blatantly illegal in the US, although I don't know offhand to what extent the ADA exempts air transport.)

Elderly people shouldn't be allowed to fly without a guardian? Check. (News flash: not every elderly person is a doddering, dementia-ridden invalid.) One step away from Saudi Arabia, I guess.

Obesity is always caused by lack of willpower and self-control? Check. (Ever head of "genetics"? Environmental factors, like the human biome? Thyroid problems? Side effects of some medications?)

Posters making this argument should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves. They aren't, so I'm inflicting a good public shaming.
 
SurlyBonds
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Re: BR Flight Attendant Subjected to Unreasonable Requests by Disabled Pax of Size

Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:52 pm

WayexTDI wrote:
Again, as been pointed out numerous times before, the majority of obese people are obese due to their own action.


Please supply a citation for this contention, ideally to something peer-reviewed. And for a cherry on top, tell us your credentials in the field of nutrition science. Thanks.
 
anrec80
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Re: BR Flight Attendant Subjected to Unreasonable Requests by Disabled Pax of Size

Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:24 pm

hayzel777 wrote:
Just a little history of the pax's behavior on BR:
- The man defecated himself on the same LAX-TPE flight in May 2018. Fellow pax complained to BR, who then called the crew in for a discipline hearing. The crew were left off with a warning but were told that they should've never let it get to that point.
- He pissed himself on another flight in his seat. This incident resulted in the aircraft being pulled off the line for mx to replace and clean the area.
- On a TPE-BKK flight, he demanded that the crew change and clean his diaper for him. They refused, and the diaper overflowed. Luckily, the return load was light and the cabin area was blocked off for TPE mx to do a cleaning and replacement in the area.
- On another flight, he threatened to faint and make the crew's life worse if they refused to help him in the bathroom.
- On the connecting journey this time, he spilled juice all over his crotch. He flagged down the flight attendant to help wipe it; she gave him napkins but he demanded she wipe it for him, saying "You can do better than me". The crew eventually wiped for him.


Ugh. And after that - he is still not on the “no-fly” list? And not on the list of pax required to be with an aide or an able-bodied relative?
 
anrec80
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Re: BR Flight Attendant Subjected to Unreasonable Requests by Disabled Pax of Size

Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:29 pm

SurlyBonds wrote:
Disabled people shouldn't be allowed to fly? Check. (Probably blatantly illegal in the US, although I don't know offhand to what extent the ADA exempts air transport.)


SurlyBonds wrote:
Elderly people shouldn't be allowed to fly without a guardian? Check. (News flash: not every elderly person is a doddering, dementia-ridden invalid.) One step away from Saudi Arabia, I guess.


On my end - if a person in their daily living requires assistance with even some basic activities of daily living (there is legal definitions for those what they are), then it’s better and safer for everyone if such people are allowed on commercial flights only with an able-bodied relative or an aide.
 
anrec80
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Re: BR Flight Attendant Subjected to Unreasonable Requests by Disabled Pax of Size

Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:46 pm

mwhcvt wrote:
I’m a disabled person of size, any you know what I’m horrified at this story, honestly what a horrid subhuman he must be, there are times when personal/intimate assistance is needed hell I’ve needed it myself in the past when hospitalised and it’s properly degrading to need such help, but if this guy really needs such help he should be travelling with a personal career or nurse...

I can understand your emotions, and how such a thing can be. However - he travelled to Thailand quite a few times, and quite a few times he demanded similar assistance. That certainly does make one wonder - perhaps he did not find these degrading? If he did - why didn’t he bring a relative or an aide with him? I understand far from everyone can bring a relative or afford an aide to a trip to Thailand, but well - a trip to Thailand is not one of life’s basic necessities, let’s admit that.

mwhcvt wrote:
but from the sounding of the story this was more about some kind of sexual gratification and that being the case he should be facing criminal charges


Yes, this story, including repeated flights and repeated requests like this, does look this way.
 
anrec80
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Re: BR Flight Attendant Subjected to Unreasonable Requests by Disabled Pax of Size

Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:55 pm

alesfr wrote:
In Europe we see things a little bit differently on this topic ;-)


I know that. Though - what’s going on with finances in your countries? Taxes, deficits, debts? I think you won’t be able to afford the way your see these things very soon. The reality is - the number of people in need of help keeps increasing, while the number of working people decreases. You have to accept this. You can only hope to be able to provide some basic help (basics of basics) at some very basic level, nothing else. A Thailand trip is not a basic need.

Hence you need to encourage today’s working people to apply more effort to take care of themselves, go longer distance to provide your own security, and prepare for old age.
 
SmokinL1011
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Re: BR Flight Attendant Subjected to Unreasonable Requests by Disabled Pax of Size

Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:04 am

KICT wrote:
Hopefully he faces a sizable fine.


Yes, and one as amply sizeable as his ass apparently is.
 
seat38a
Posts: 284
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Re: BR Flight Attendant Subjected to Unreasonable Requests by Disabled Pax of Size

Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:15 am

SurlyBonds wrote:
First, let me stipulate that no flight attendant should have to endure what this one did, and BR ought to ban the man in question.

That said, the level of bigotry and discrimination in this thread is shocking.

Disabled people shouldn't be allowed to fly? Check. (Probably blatantly illegal in the US, although I don't know offhand to what extent the ADA exempts air transport.)

Elderly people shouldn't be allowed to fly without a guardian? Check. (News flash: not every elderly person is a doddering, dementia-ridden invalid.) One step away from Saudi Arabia, I guess.

Obesity is always caused by lack of willpower and self-control? Check. (Ever head of "genetics"? Environmental factors, like the human biome? Thyroid problems? Side effects of some medications?)

Posters making this argument should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves. They aren't, so I'm inflicting a good public shaming.


ADA does not cover flights in the US Air Carrier Access Act does. https://www.transportation.gov/airconsu ... sabilities for rundown.

Based on what I'm see in "Other Services and Accommodations" bullet 1:
Airlines are required to provide assis­tance with boarding, deplaning and making connections. Assistance within the cabin is also required, but not extensive personal services.

I'm guessing that means butt wiping is not covered.
 
F27500
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Re: BR Flight Attendant Subjected to Unreasonable Requests by Disabled Pax of Size

Wed Jan 23, 2019 1:17 am

Sorry. but SHE should have said NO … the Purser should have said NO … and the Captain, if necessary, should have said NO. What does this gross perv do at home alone? Or in the airport terminal when no one's there to wipe his butt?

He's a creep, but this FA and crew were just stupid indulging him this way.
 
WayexTDI
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Re: BR Flight Attendant Subjected to Unreasonable Requests by Disabled Pax of Size

Wed Jan 23, 2019 2:02 am

SurlyBonds wrote:
WayexTDI wrote:
Again, as been pointed out numerous times before, the majority of obese people are obese due to their own action.


Please supply a citation for this contention, ideally to something peer-reviewed. And for a cherry on top, tell us your credentials in the field of nutrition science. Thanks.

There, read that: https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/323691.php
Point #1 through 4 has all to do with food intake; something that a person can control. Those are the most prescribed remedies for obesity.

Oh, and that, from the Mayo Clinic (you know, that little clinic on the corner of Nowhere St and Faraway Ave - https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-con ... c-20375742):
Although there are genetic, behavioral and hormonal influences on body weight, obesity occurs when you take in more calories than you burn through exercise and normal daily activities. Your body stores these excess calories as fat.

Obesity can sometimes be traced to a medical cause, such as Prader-Willi syndrome, Cushing's syndrome, and other diseases and conditions. However, these disorders are rare and, in general, the principal causes of obesity are:

  • Inactivity. If you're not very active, you don't burn as many calories. With a sedentary lifestyle, you can easily take in more calories every day than you use through exercise and normal daily activities.
  • Unhealthy diet and eating habits. Weight gain is inevitable if you regularly eat more calories than you burn. And most Americans' diets are too high in calories and are full of fast food and high-calorie beverages.

Is that good enough for you? Need something more "peer-reviewed" than the Mayo Clinic???
 
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flyingclrs727
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Re: BR Flight Attendant Subjected to Unreasonable Requests by Disabled Pax of Size

Wed Jan 23, 2019 3:01 am

alfa164 wrote:
hayzel777 wrote:
A BR flight attendant on a LAX-TPE flight was forced to:
-wipe the behind of a pax of size because he claimed he could not reach back their due to injuries. During the wiping, he kept moaning and saying "hmm, deeper, deeper" and the flight attendant felt extremely violated (the man became enraged when she refused at first, the Chief Purser and the FA ended up doing the wiping after some back and forth)
-The man questioned after the wiping whether or not they had even properly cleaned him and yelled at them over it
-He was seated in Y but was given access to the J bathroom because of his size (the J one is larger than a normal stall, it can fit a whole wheelchair+another person)
-help him remove his pants and underwear in the lav, where he then pulled out his genitals for the FAs to see
-watch him use the restroom as he demanded the door be kept open so he does not feel claustrophobic.
Upon arrival in TPE, male staffers escorted the man to the restroom, where he said he could go himself and did not need their help. The pax has reportedly had many write-ups about his behavior but it has largely been ignored by BR mgmt. because he is a frequent flyer.
Mgmt. said his requests are unreasonable but the flight attendant could've and should've said no. They refused to comment on whether or not they would blacklist him and said they are investigating whether or not their was any sexual harassment. Meanwhile, they will provide "support" for the FA.
https://udn.com/news/story/7315/3604203
https://tw.appledaily.com/new/realtime/20190120/1504018


That is not a passenger; that is a creep. He should be banned for life by BR - and by any other airline where he has pulled his stunts.


He should be banned by Star Alliance.
 
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compensateme
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Re: BR Flight Attendant Subjected to Unreasonable Requests by Disabled Pax of Size

Wed Jan 23, 2019 3:36 am

Nearly 75% of Americans are overweight, and an estimated 40% are obese. Nearly 60% of Europeans are overweight and 25% obese.

And yet on a.net, there’s a weekly fat bashing thread in which the lion’s share of users claim to be “fit and healthy” and are “disgusted” by obese people. Why do I have the feeling that many of these users are obese and using the computer to hide from themselves?

In any event, this thread belongs in non-aviation.
We don’t care what your next flight is.
 
downdata
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Re: BR Flight Attendant Subjected to Unreasonable Requests by Disabled Pax of Size

Wed Jan 23, 2019 3:46 am

Thread title in other words: fat retarded cripple force BR stewardess to wipe his arse
 
many321
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Re: BR Flight Attendant Subjected to Unreasonable Requests by Disabled Pax of Size

Wed Jan 23, 2019 5:43 am

downdata wrote:
Thread title in other words:fat retarded cripple force BR stewardess to wipe his arse


:D :D I had to laugh, though this is sad.

BR knew of this man, why didn't they just ban the sex pervert. Let him become CI's, NH, or JL's problem.
 
SurlyBonds
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Re: BR Flight Attendant Subjected to Unreasonable Requests by Disabled Pax of Size

Wed Jan 23, 2019 6:13 am

seat38a wrote:
I'm guessing that means butt wiping is not covered.


Sigh. I had hoped my first sentence would make this clear, but I'm in no way defending this passenger or the butt-wiping.

I'm talking about all the anti-disabled, ageist, and anti-obesity comments -- one of which called for banning all passengers who can't walk. The regulations you cite clearly would prohibit that.
 
alan3
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Re: BR Flight Attendant Subjected to Unreasonable Requests by Disabled Pax of Size

Thu Jan 24, 2019 5:39 pm

This discussion about metabolism and calorie intake is completely missing the point. You can't ban overweight people from travelling and it puts a bad name on polite respectful overweight people.

Point is that this guy was a disgusting jerk. This isn't remotely within the responsibilities of a flight attendant. A shame airlines can't just put seatbelts in the toilet so they could leave him there.

I wonder if BR have the right to ban him...I hope so, but given the litigious culture of the US, he'd probably sue them immediately for discrimination.
 
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TPX101
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Re: BR Flight Attendant Subjected to Unreasonable Requests by Disabled Pax of Size

Fri Jan 25, 2019 2:44 pm

hayzel777 wrote:
idlewild wrote:
I don't believe the story. Or, if it is true, not the whole story is coming out. Seriously? A stewardess all by herself decided to wipe a hiney without her supervisor's approval? And would any supervisor worth his or her salt okay this, being a non-medical emergency? Would a supervisor even do the dirty deed without consulting a hire-up via company radio? Let's think very hard about how such a process would go through the motions on something like this before we become outraged.

The cabin manager made the call to wipe and she felt she could not make her junior crew do it so she did it herself. The man threatened to remain on the toilet if they did not, which is a safety issue. The flight was predicted to be extremely turbulent and he had blocked off a bathroom that other pax needed to use. Had he fallen off the toilet because of turbulence, the airline would be sued and the crew would lose their licenses for allowing it to even happen (no matter the circumstance, there are strict procedures by the CAA). Therefore, the CP took it upon herself to do the wiping while the crew held the man up. The crew member's grief was both for herself and the CP. Contacting the company would be useless; the dispatcher would have a very hard time finding a manager because of the timing issue (incident happened at 7pm TPE time, staff already at home) and the fact that the cabin manager has final say on events in the cabin.

Just a little history of the pax's behavior on BR:
- The man defecated himself on the same LAX-TPE flight in May 2018. Fellow pax complained to BR, who then called the crew in for a discipline hearing. The crew were left off with a warning but were told that they should've never let it get to that point.
- He pissed himself on another flight in his seat. This incident resulted in the aircraft being pulled off the line for mx to replace and clean the area.
- On a TPE-BKK flight, he demanded that the crew change and clean his diaper for him. They refused, and the diaper overflowed. Luckily, the return load was light and the cabin area was blocked off for TPE mx to do a cleaning and replacement in the area.
- On another flight, he threatened to faint and make the crew's life worse if they refused to help him in the bathroom.
- On the connecting journey this time, he spilled juice all over his crotch. He flagged down the flight attendant to help wipe it; she gave him napkins but he demanded she wipe it for him, saying "You can do better than me". The crew eventually wiped for him.

Ugh, what a disgusting individual.
 
juliuswong
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Re: BR Flight Attendant Subjected to Unreasonable Requests by Disabled Pax of Size

Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:23 pm

Wonder if there is any update on the case? The crew involved would have been grounded by now for investigation. The FA who went to media highly will be fired to save face for the company.

The creep is riding on old school say "Westerners are dominant and Asians should be subservient" to them. Screw humanity and sympathy. Such individual should be run over by 12 wheeler truck.
- Life is a journey, travel it well -
 
hayzel777
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Re: BR Flight Attendant Subjected to Unreasonable Requests by Disabled Pax of Size

Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:29 pm

juliuswong wrote:
Wonder if there is any update on the case? The crew involved would have been grounded by now for investigation. The FA who went to media highly will be fired to save face for the company.

The creep is riding on old school say "Westerners are dominant and Asians should be subservient" to them. Screw humanity and sympathy. Such individual should be run over by 12 wheeler truck.

FA has been given 3 weeks off and HAS NOT been fired. They definitely won't fire her with the media storm she's been getting. That's just creating a bigger issue.

The CP also has 3 weeks off; some of her fellow crew say she plans on resigning. Mgmt. has issued a memo reminding all to NOT adhere to these silly requests and instead issue warning cards. Pilots have been told that when informed, the best route is to divert and offload. They also reminding them to be careful of social media posts and photo taking as their can be repercussions legally and internally.

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