L410Turbolet
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Updated: EU and Qatar sign open skies

Mon Jan 21, 2019 4:43 am

According to Politico:

"If there is a final agreement, Qatar is certain to gain unlimited access to any location in the EU. Qatar Airways currently operates on a series of bilateral agreements with individual countries with caps on the number of flights and locations, limits that also apply to rivals like the two big carriers from the United Arab Emirates — Emirates and Etihad Airways."

https://www.politico.eu/article/how-bru ... -blockade/

Can anyone explain me why the EU Commission feels QR deserves such a special deal and why do they get involved in the Qatar-Saudi feuds at all?
Last edited by SQ22 on Wed Feb 06, 2019 6:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Title changed, agreement signed by Qatar and not QR
 
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mercure1
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Re: EU to grant QR unrestricted access to EU airports

Mon Jan 21, 2019 4:52 am

EU is simply in the process of adopting CATA (Comprehensive Air Transport Agreements) itself replacing previous individual state agreements.

The UAE in 2016 was invited to enter into CATA talks, but waited until September 2018 to agree to discuss.
https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news ... pean-union

In the meantime EU has a similar process ongoing with all ASEAN state members, Qatar, Turkey, etc.
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Blerg
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Re: EU to grant QR unrestricted access to EU airports

Mon Jan 21, 2019 6:06 am

If there is a final agreement... I wonder if certain EU member states such as Germany might oppose this agreement. Just because Brussels wants something doesn't mean individual member states want it too.
 
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mercure1
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Re: EU to grant QR unrestricted access to EU airports

Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:09 am

Blerg wrote:
If there is a final agreement... I wonder if certain EU member states such as Germany might oppose this agreement. Just because Brussels wants something doesn't mean individual member states want it too.


In 2016, 28 EU states authorized European Commissions to negotiate EU wide air service agreements.
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Blerg
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Re: EU to grant QR unrestricted access to EU airports

Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:15 am

mercure1 wrote:
Blerg wrote:
If there is a final agreement... I wonder if certain EU member states such as Germany might oppose this agreement. Just because Brussels wants something doesn't mean individual member states want it too.


In 2016, 28 EU states authorized European Commissions to negotiate EU wide air service agreements.


Yes, to negotiate but that doesn't mean individual member states will accept just about anything the EU Commission presents. I am sure the German side will consult with Lufthansa before anything is signed.
 
marcelh
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Re: EU to grant QR unrestricted access to EU airports

Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:28 am

Blerg wrote:
mercure1 wrote:
Blerg wrote:
If there is a final agreement... I wonder if certain EU member states such as Germany might oppose this agreement. Just because Brussels wants something doesn't mean individual member states want it too.


In 2016, 28 EU states authorized European Commissions to negotiate EU wide air service agreements.


Yes, to negotiate but that doesn't mean individual member states will accept just about anything the EU Commission presents. I am sure the German side will consult with Lufthansa before anything is signed.

A deal beneficial for all involved will be made. The EU isn’t the monster some people try is to believe.
 
VSMUT
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Re: EU to grant QR unrestricted access to EU airports

Mon Jan 21, 2019 8:40 am

L410Turbolet wrote:
Can anyone explain me why the EU Commission feels QR deserves such a special deal and why do they get involved in the Qatar-Saudi feuds at all?


A mentioned above, the UAE didn't want to negotiate, not the EU. Its got nothing to do with the feud.

The EU wants to increase competition and ensure lower prices for the consumers. With the major EU airlines consolidating and minor players going bust, that is a good idea.
 
Kadish
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Re: EU to grant QR unrestricted access to EU airports

Mon Jan 21, 2019 8:57 am

I dont know if im wrong here, but QR will have unrestricted access to any airport Inglés the EU whereas IB,BA,VY....will have problems if a hard brexit happens :white:
 
cedarjet
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Re: EU to grant QR unrestricted access to EU airports

Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:05 am

Kadish wrote:
I dont know if im wrong here, but QR will have unrestricted access to any airport in the EU whereas IB,BA,VY....will have problems if a hard brexit happens :white:

Ironic eh?
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
L410Turbolet
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Re: EU to grant QR unrestricted access to EU airports

Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:46 am

marcelh wrote:
Blerg wrote:
mercure1 wrote:

In 2016, 28 EU states authorized European Commissions to negotiate EU wide air service agreements.


Yes, to negotiate but that doesn't mean individual member states will accept just about anything the EU Commission presents. I am sure the German side will consult with Lufthansa before anything is signed.

A deal beneficial for all involved will be made.


So is Germany expected to do a 180 on their - perfectly logical - argument regarding the disproportion between availability/number of potential destinations in Germany vs. UAE when arguing in favor of limitations of access for EK?
 
airevents
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Re: EU to grant QR unrestricted access to EU airports

Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:59 am

What exactly is going to be the upside for European carriers here? Unlimited access to Qatar´s airports? I seriously hope this deal doesn´t go through. While this may be good for consumers, I see hundreds and thousands of airline jobs under threat in Europe.
 
mjoelnir
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Re: EU to grant QR unrestricted access to EU airports

Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:31 am

[list=][/list]
Kadish wrote:
I dont know if im wrong here, but QR will have unrestricted access to any airport Inglés the EU whereas IB,BA,VY....will have problems if a hard brexit happens :white:


If the UK wants a no deal, than it is their problem when they get a no deal.
 
marcelh
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Re: EU to grant QR unrestricted access to EU airports

Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:39 am

L410Turbolet wrote:
marcelh wrote:
Blerg wrote:

Yes, to negotiate but that doesn't mean individual member states will accept just about anything the EU Commission presents. I am sure the German side will consult with Lufthansa before anything is signed.

A deal beneficial for all involved will be made.


So is Germany expected to do a 180 on their - perfectly logical - argument regarding the disproportion between availability/number of potential destinations in Germany vs. UAE when arguing in favor of limitations of access for EK?

Don’t change the subject; we are discussing the negotiations between the EU and Qatar, not the UAE.
 
L410Turbolet
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Re: EU to grant QR unrestricted access to EU airports

Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:51 am

marcelh wrote:
L410Turbolet wrote:
marcelh wrote:
A deal beneficial for all involved will be made.


So is Germany expected to do a 180 on their - perfectly logical - argument regarding the disproportion between availability/number of potential destinations in Germany vs. UAE when arguing in favor of limitations of access for EK?

Don’t change the subject; we are discussing the negotiations between the EU and Qatar, not the UAE.


I am not changing the subject. I am just asking if there is any consistency of arguments.

airevents wrote:
What exactly is going to be the upside for European carriers here?
...I see hundreds and thousands of airline jobs under threat in Europe.

The EU is willing to self-destruct its own car industry chasing some green chimaera, being oblivious to destroying jobs in a bad, bad industry would not be THAT surprising.

VSMUT wrote:
A mentioned above, the UAE didn't want to negotiate, not the EU. Its got nothing to do with the feud.


The article linked above implies otherwise:

The blockade also compelled Qatar to find new allies. Because the United States under President Donald Trump sided with the Saudis, Qatar turned to Europe.

It would not be the first time the EU did stupid thing just in spite. Picking sides in this case is like choosing between cholera and typhus.
Last edited by L410Turbolet on Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
marcelh
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Re: EU to grant QR unrestricted access to EU airports

Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:11 am

L410Turbolet wrote:
marcelh wrote:
L410Turbolet wrote:

So is Germany expected to do a 180 on their - perfectly logical - argument regarding the disproportion between availability/number of potential destinations in Germany vs. UAE when arguing in favor of limitations of access for EK?

Don’t change the subject; we are discussing the negotiations between the EU and Qatar, not the UAE.


I am not changing the subject. I am just asking if there is any consistency of arguments.

The UAE agreed just last year to start negotiations with the EU, so no agreement there yet.
 
VSMUT
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Re: EU to grant QR unrestricted access to EU airports

Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:45 am

airevents wrote:
What exactly is going to be the upside for European carriers here? Unlimited access to Qatar´s airports? I seriously hope this deal doesn´t go through. While this may be good for consumers, I see hundreds and thousands of airline jobs under threat in Europe.


From the EU website about the subject:

European aviation is facing new competitive challenges in the rapidly evolving global market.
European airlines are restricted in their ability to access markets outside the EU.
A 10% increase in the supply of intercontinental flights results in a 4% increase in the number of headquarters of large firms.
A 10% increase of departing passengers in a metropolitan region increases the employment in the services sector of that region by 1%.
A 10% increase in air traffic equals an increase of 0.5% of GDP per capita.
In 2033 passenger traffic in the Asia Pacific region will account for over 40% of world air traffic.
China will become the world’s largest air transport market in 2023.


In other words, the gains are much greater than the losses.

Look at the following 3 points:
A 10% increase in the supply of intercontinental flights results in a 4% increase in the number of headquarters of large firms.
A 10% increase of departing passengers in a metropolitan region increases the employment in the services sector of that region by 1%.
A 10% increase in air traffic equals an increase of 0.5% of GDP per capita.


The major airline groups in Europe have proven unwilling to fly long-haul out of even major cities like Berlin, preferring to center it all on the hubs in Frankfurt, München, Paris, Amsterdam or London. They are actively harming the economy by not providing growth in other major cities.
More jobs and wealth in the population will ultimately trickle down to the local airlines, as people spend their money on travel.

Besides which, the likes of Qatar, Emirates and Etihad largely rely on imported European crews and European aircraft. A growth there will provide more jobs for European crews. Ground staff in the EU will remain unchanged, or even grow a bit. Protectionism on the other hand gives you lazy and terrible airlines like Alitalia. They never hire new pilots or cabin crew. We don't want to go there.

L410Turbolet wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
A mentioned above, the UAE didn't want to negotiate, not the EU. Its got nothing to do with the feud.


The article linked above implies otherwise:

The blockade also compelled Qatar to find new allies. Because the United States under President Donald Trump sided with the Saudis, Qatar turned to Europe.

It would not be the first time the EU did stupid thing just in spite. Picking sides in this case is like choosing between cholera and typhus.


You are interpreting it incorrectly. A general and neutral offer was sent out by the EU to multiple nations. Qatar coincidentally lacked any friends at the time, so took it up as quickly as possible in an attempt at winning some political points. There is nothing to indicate that EU negotiated in a way that favours Qatar over the UAE. Qatar just started the negotiations 2 years prior to the UAE , and hence reached an agreement before them.
 
c933103
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Re: EU to grant QR unrestricted access to EU airports

Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:50 am

Is this similar to the agreement Tunisia just signed with EU?
When no other countries around the world is going to militarily stop China and its subordinate fom abusing its citizens within its national boundary, it is unreasonable to expect those abuse can be countered with purely peaceful means.
 
VSMUT
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Re: EU to grant QR unrestricted access to EU airports

Mon Jan 21, 2019 12:27 pm

c933103 wrote:
Is this similar to the agreement Tunisia just signed with EU?


I think so, Tunisia is one of the nations involved.
 
Galwayman
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Re: EU to grant QR unrestricted access to EU airports

Mon Jan 21, 2019 12:28 pm

It’s good news for EU citizens , will help bring airfares down , open up new routes ( QR even flies to Cardiff - a place most EU airlines wouldn’t touch with a barge poll) and lead to more Europeans employed in aircraft manufacturing and airline management . There’s no downside to this for Europeans
 
A388
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Re: EU to grant QR unrestricted access to EU airports

Mon Jan 21, 2019 12:35 pm

Can anyone explain to me the (legal) power or influence that the EU Commission has over individual member states? How can member states still block such a CATA? Aren't the same member states also represented in the EU Commission?

A388
 
LurveBus
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Re: EU to grant QR unrestricted access to EU airports

Mon Jan 21, 2019 12:43 pm

During CATA negotiations, every single EU member state is represented by a someone from their national authorities. And individual airlines can also observe if their national authority allows it. There is a very extensive process of consultation between Brussels and member-states. And if any member state had a serious problem with it, the whole initiative wouldn’t go anywhere, believe me.
 
A388
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Re: EU to grant QR unrestricted access to EU airports

Mon Jan 21, 2019 1:07 pm

LurveBus wrote:
During CATA negotiations, every single EU member state is represented by a someone from their national authorities. And individual airlines can also observe if their national authority allows it. There is a very extensive process of consultation between Brussels and member-states. And if any member state had a serious problem with it, the whole initiative wouldn’t go anywhere, believe me.


So in this case what some forum members here say that the member states still need to approve this CATA, there won't be any surprises because the EU Commission already has the support of the member states to approve it?

A388
 
VTCIE
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Re: EU to grant QR unrestricted access to EU airports

Mon Jan 21, 2019 1:11 pm

Now is the time for QR to hand EK a thrashing. Let QR launch all the flights it has been announcing, but has never got around to launching:

  1. LUX (one of the destinations QR announced at the ITF but never launched, along with MLA and TLL).
  2. TLL, RIX, VNO.
  3. DUS, HAM (a slap in EK's face as EK can't serve TXL/BER).
  4. TIA, LJU, TGD, PRN, KIV and also KRK, KTW, GDN, BTS.
  5. MLA, PMO, NAP.
  6. Possibly KEF (the routing might be difficult given the blockade).
  7. LIS (it's high time now for QR) and OPO.

QR already has many of the ex-Yugoslav and Balkan countries covered: SJJ, ZAG (which is served by EK but long after QR), SKP, KBP, OTP, SOF. EK doesn't serve Bucharest or Sofia. (Then again, FZ does.)
In grieving remembrance of the thousands of people who lost their lives on ET-AVJ, PK-LQP, XA-UHZ, S2-AGU, CP-2933, SU-GCC, EI-ETJ, D-AIPX, PK-AXC, 9M-MRD, VT-AXV and above all 9M-MRO, besides many more. Your deaths are not in vain. Safety first, always.
 
airbazar
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Re: EU to grant QR unrestricted access to EU airports

Mon Jan 21, 2019 1:40 pm

A388 wrote:
Can anyone explain to me the (legal) power or influence that the EU Commission has over individual member states? How can member states still block such a CATA? Aren't the same member states also represented in the EU Commission?

The EU is a parliamentary democracy where it's members are directly elected by the citizens that they represent. It's not that much different than any other democracy.
 
Waterbomber
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Re: EU to grant QR unrestricted access to EU airports

Wed Jan 23, 2019 2:06 am

I think that this is not about competition or economic development, unwillingness of European or Asian airlines to expand.
This is about Qatar offering gas in exchange for money and favors.
After Europe put sanctions on Russia, gas supply has become a major political focus.
We also see that Europe is actively trying to promote gas as an alternative to oil.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: EU to grant QR unrestricted access to EU airports

Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:23 pm

Deal has been reached...

The EU and Qatar have announced they have signed an “open skies” agreement which gives all airlines from both partners “unlimited and unrestricted access” to each other.
The Comprehensive Air Transport Agreement is the first between the EU and a Gulf Co-operation Council state, and comes as Qatar is still experiencing a blockade by its neighbours.



Qatar, EU to sign open skies agreement
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-qata ... SKCN1PU0HW

EU and Qatar forge ‘open skies’ aviation pact
https://www.ft.com/content/c4c774c0-295 ... 8ef2b976c7
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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MoKa777
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Re: EU to grant QR unrestricted access to EU airports

Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:33 pm

LAXintl wrote:
Deal has been reached...

The EU and Qatar have announced they have signed an “open skies” agreement which gives all airlines from both partners “unlimited and unrestricted access” to each other.
The Comprehensive Air Transport Agreement is the first between the EU and a Gulf Co-operation Council state, and comes as Qatar is still experiencing a blockade by its neighbours.



Qatar, EU to sign open skies agreement
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-qata ... SKCN1PU0HW

EU and Qatar forge ‘open skies’ aviation pact
https://www.ft.com/content/c4c774c0-295 ... 8ef2b976c7


Wow! This is really something to take in and process... I'm going to need a minute.
Never be proud. Always be grateful.
 
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mercure1
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Re: EU to grant QR unrestricted access to EU airports

Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:45 pm

LAXintl wrote:
Deal has been reached...

The EU and Qatar have announced they have signed an “open skies” agreement which gives all airlines from both partners “unlimited and unrestricted access” to each other.
The Comprehensive Air Transport Agreement is the first between the EU and a Gulf Co-operation Council state, and comes as Qatar is still experiencing a blockade by its neighbours.



Congrats Qatar and EU.

Should be great for consumers as QR broadens its flight schedule within the bloc.

:bouncy:
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airtran737
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Re: EU to grant QR unrestricted access to EU airports

Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:57 pm

Terrible news for the carriers who will be hurt by QR’s tactics. I don’t know why the EU allowed themselves to be taken hostage by QR.
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
LAXLHR
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Re: EU to grant QR unrestricted access to EU airports

Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:03 pm

marcelh wrote:
Blerg wrote:
mercure1 wrote:

In 2016, 28 EU states authorized European Commissions to negotiate EU wide air service agreements.


Yes, to negotiate but that doesn't mean individual member states will accept just about anything the EU Commission presents. I am sure the German side will consult with Lufthansa before anything is signed.

A deal beneficial for all involved will be made. The EU isn’t the monster some people try is to believe.


Yes it is!! The EU is one head of a larger beast. Yes, might be beneficial but always at a larger cost (not worth going into on here).

So surface level, this is great for those that desire greater access to the EU! :-)
BA IB ET JM EA GK PA VS AA SN HP CO W7 WN NW DL UA AC US LH LX OS JL QF QR WY MH CX U2 EK 9W UK TP VY VN LO OK OZ UL SQ LA

707 727 L10 732-NG 741 742 743 744 752 753 762 763 772 773 787 DC8 DC9 DC10 M80 M11 100 AB3 310 318 319 320 321 332 333 342 343 380
 
Eyad89
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Re: EU to grant QR unrestricted access to EU airports

Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:05 pm

airtran737 wrote:
Terrible news for the carriers who will be hurt by QR’s tactics. I don’t know why the EU allowed themselves to be taken hostage by QR.


To help grow the economy of smaller cities that are not served heavily by major EU carriers.
 
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FA9295
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Re: EU to grant QR unrestricted access to EU airports

Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:11 pm

airtran737 wrote:
Terrible news for the carriers who will be hurt by QR’s tactics. I don’t know why the EU allowed themselves to be taken hostage by QR.

What tactics?
 
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Aisak
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Re: EU to grant QR unrestricted access to EU airports

Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:38 pm

airtran737 wrote:
Terrible news for the carriers who will be hurt by QR’s tactics. I don’t know why the EU allowed themselves to be taken hostage by QR.

While I see where you’re heading, nothing really stops **ANY** EU airline to set up a base at DOH and use the same tactics on EU-DOH
 
eamondzhang
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Re: EU to grant QR unrestricted access to EU airports

Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:59 pm

Aisak wrote:
airtran737 wrote:
Terrible news for the carriers who will be hurt by QR’s tactics. I don’t know why the EU allowed themselves to be taken hostage by QR.

While I see where you’re heading, nothing really stops **ANY** EU airline to set up a base at DOH and use the same tactics on EU-DOH

Subsidy does, which QR enjoys but not the EU carriers.

Try getting an audited and trustworthy financial report from QR. (Not everything audited by the Big 4 can be trustworthy in the region, try EY.)

Michael
 
marcelh
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Re: EU to grant QR unrestricted access to EU airports

Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:04 pm

LAXLHR wrote:
marcelh wrote:
Blerg wrote:

Yes, to negotiate but that doesn't mean individual member states will accept just about anything the EU Commission presents. I am sure the German side will consult with Lufthansa before anything is signed.

A deal beneficial for all involved will be made. The EU isn’t the monster some people try is to believe.


Yes it is!! The EU is one head of a larger beast. Yes, might be beneficial but always at a larger cost (not worth going into on here).

So surface level, this is great for those that desire greater access to the EU! :-)

non-aviation related discussions about the EU doesn’t belong here.
 
deltatrav
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Re: EU to grant QR unrestricted access to EU airports

Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:28 pm

Anyone think there's any chance of KLM or Lufthansa returning to Doha? Also, perhaps this could push an EU carrier to run a 5th freedom Qatar-UAE flight (as I understand it, blockade only applies to Qatari and Emirati carriers - and I assume carriers like Kuwait and Oman don't want to get involved in the spat by running 5th freedom).
 
Turnhouse1
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Re: EU to grant QR unrestricted access to EU airports

Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:28 pm

airtran737 wrote:
Terrible news for the carriers who will be hurt by QR’s tactics. I don’t know why the EU allowed themselves to be taken hostage by QR.


The European Union is not the 'European Association of Airlines' and therefore considers the benefits to consumers, the wider economy, Regional Development (no doubt considering provision of routes to places that aren't London, Paris, Frankfurt, Amsterdam or Madrid), manufacturers such as Airbus and Rolls Royce as well as the interests of IAG, Lufthansa Group or Air France/KLM. On balance this deal may well be positive for the EU economy.
 
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FA9295
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Re: EU to grant QR unrestricted access to EU airports

Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:28 pm

marcelh wrote:
LAXLHR wrote:
marcelh wrote:
A deal beneficial for all involved will be made. The EU isn’t the monster some people try is to believe.


Yes it is!! The EU is one head of a larger beast. Yes, might be beneficial but always at a larger cost (not worth going into on here).

So surface level, this is great for those that desire greater access to the EU! :-)

non-aviation related discussions about the EU doesn’t belong here.

This does have to do with aviation; look at this thread's title... :roll:
 
airevents
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Re: EU to grant QR unrestricted access to EU airports

Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:31 pm

I am sure there will be a lot of lobbying by EU airlines and as somebody employed by one, I sure hope so! Why would any EU airline want to open a hub in DOH, a tiny local market?
 
marcelh
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Re: EU to grant QR unrestricted access to EU airports

Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:38 pm

FA9295 wrote:
marcelh wrote:
LAXLHR wrote:

Yes it is!! The EU is one head of a larger beast. Yes, might be beneficial but always at a larger cost (not worth going into on here).

So surface level, this is great for those that desire greater access to the EU! :-)

non-aviation related discussions about the EU doesn’t belong here.

This does have to do with aviation; look at this thread's title... :roll:

LAXLHR is referring to the EU as a beast which be a benificial but always at a langer cost. That’s political IMHO
 
787X30
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Re: EU to grant QR unrestricted access to EU airports

Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:38 pm

VSMUT wrote:
The major airline groups in Europe have proven unwilling to fly long-haul out of even major cities like Berlin, preferring ...

Moves like this (open sky with a territory with no employee-rights) will inevitably force European carriers into concentration even deeper.

This must be the ever more social Europe the commission started touting recently.
 
TC957
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Re: EU to grant QR unrestricted access to EU airports

Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:44 pm

I can see these cities soon getting QR's flights :
LYS, LUX, DUS, STR, AGP, MLA, LIS, BLQ, SZG.
 
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Aisak
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Re: EU to grant QR unrestricted access to EU airports

Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:45 pm

deltatrav wrote:
Anyone think there's any chance of KLM or Lufthansa returning to Doha?

I think close to zero. KLM, LH... along with some other European carriers already had the rights to fly to DOH (and they would have, from their hubs). I doubt now that QR has deeper access into the EU (and not just the hubs) would create a better scenario for EU carriers to start DOH.

It could be a port for 5th freedom beyond DOH. But nothing that couldn’t have been tried with the traditional Asian stops (SIN HKG BKK....)

deltatrav wrote:
Also, perhaps this could push an EU carrier to run a 5th freedom Qatar-UAE flight (as I understand it, blockade only applies to Qatari and Emirati carriers - and I assume carriers like Kuwait and Oman don't want to get involved in the spat by running 5th freedom).

That would be fun indeed.

But if this agreement includes unrestricted 5th freedom beyond DOH there could be some “tricky” routes. We could see “QR friends” doing some DOH-XXX where Qatar has maxed out the frequencies/destinations allowance. Nothing could stop Air Italy from launching MXP-DOH-SYD and complementing DOH-SYD own service. After all, it seems IG has plenty of long haul planes and not enough destinations to fly them....
 
Turnhouse1
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Re: EU to grant QR unrestricted access to EU airports

Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:56 pm

Aisak wrote:
But if this agreement includes unrestricted 5th freedom beyond DOH there could be some “tricky” routes. We could see “QR friends” doing some DOH-XXX where Qatar has maxed out the frequencies/destinations allowance. Nothing could stop Air Italy from launching MXP-DOH-SYD and complementing DOH-SYD own service. After all, it seems IG has plenty of long haul planes and not enough destinations to fly them....


Indeed, BA could no doubt operate some LHR-DOH-MEL/SYD routes where Qatar has run out of slot allocations in Australia, maybe they could take up their A380 options as those would be ideal for this route.
 
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UPlog
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Re: EU to grant QR unrestricted access to EU airports

Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:44 pm

Great to see.

Will be good for consumers and open door for QR to add more direct European links. This might be why they opted for the A321LR last week.

Look forward to EU finalizing a similar deal with the ASEAN nations.
 
mutu
Posts: 488
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2006 7:04 am

Re: EU to grant QR unrestricted access to EU airports

Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:54 pm

No change for the UK which has enjoyed a very liberal bilateral with Qatar.just look at the regional connectivity offered over DOH from the UK regions and of course the scale of QR at LHR/LGW.
Similarly for the UAE untileither an EU wide deal is agreed or if after Brexit the current liberal deal will remain. Yes this hurts BA and VS going east and South but they have adjusted to the competition albeit not to the benefit of product and service some might say.
 
deltatrav
Posts: 14
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2018 6:33 pm

Re: EU to grant QR unrestricted access to EU airports

Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:11 pm

Ahh, I see. Wasn't sure if this removal of local sales office did anything. One can dream!


Aisak wrote:
deltatrav wrote:
Anyone think there's any chance of KLM or Lufthansa returning to Doha?

I think close to zero. KLM, LH... along with some other European carriers already had the rights to fly to DOH (and they would have, from their hubs). I doubt now that QR has deeper access into the EU (and not just the hubs) would create a better scenario for EU carriers to start DOH.

It could be a port for 5th freedom beyond DOH. But nothing that couldn’t have been tried with the traditional Asian stops (SIN HKG BKK....)

deltatrav wrote:
Also, perhaps this could push an EU carrier to run a 5th freedom Qatar-UAE flight (as I understand it, blockade only applies to Qatari and Emirati carriers - and I assume carriers like Kuwait and Oman don't want to get involved in the spat by running 5th freedom).

That would be fun indeed.

But if this agreement includes unrestricted 5th freedom beyond DOH there could be some “tricky” routes. We could see “QR friends” doing some DOH-XXX where Qatar has maxed out the frequencies/destinations allowance. Nothing could stop Air Italy from launching MXP-DOH-SYD and complementing DOH-SYD own service. After all, it seems IG has plenty of long haul planes and not enough destinations to fly them....
 
VSMUT
Posts: 3005
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: EU to grant QR unrestricted access to EU airports

Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:37 pm

787X30 wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
The major airline groups in Europe have proven unwilling to fly long-haul out of even major cities like Berlin, preferring ...

Moves like this (open sky with a territory with no employee-rights) will inevitably force European carriers into concentration even deeper.

This must be the ever more social Europe the commission started touting recently.



The airlines started this game by taking the first steps towards consolidation, not the EU. The corporations could have prevented measures like this, they chose not to. There is zero remorse towards the airlines over this.
 
User avatar
DLHAM
Posts: 372
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2016 1:10 am

Re: EU to grant QR unrestricted access to EU airports

Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:58 pm

Wow, great news! Now they can finally serve DUS and my home airport HAM! Cant wait to see these QR 787s or 350s here. I am sure EK is not amused!
My Instagram Account: Instagram
 
KingOrGod
Posts: 129
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:19 pm

Re: EU to grant QR unrestricted access to EU airports

Tue Feb 05, 2019 11:02 pm

TC957 wrote:
I can see these cities soon getting QR's flights :
LYS, LUX, DUS, STR, AGP, MLA, LIS, BLQ, SZG.


QR tried STR and failed miserably with an A319. They then tried a tag on to the ZRH flight, and again, failed miserably.

I don't expect to see them back.

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