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kottok
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Kenya Airways launches NBO-GVA-FCO-NBO

Tue Jan 22, 2019 9:52 am

On the 12th of June, KQ will be launching a 4 weekly triangular service NBO-GVA-FCO-NBO with a 788.

NBO 2350 - 0610+1 FCO 0730 - 0910 GVA 1030 - NBO 1910 --3---7 788

NBO 2350 - 0645+1 GVA 0805 - 0950 FCO 1105 - 1905 NBO 1---5-- 788

Official press release in French from Geneva airport : http://www.gva.ch/fr/desktopdefault.asp ... ead-24511/

It is being discussed on the Swiss aviation thread but I think it deserves its own thread as KQ has not launched any European destinations since a loooong time.

I personnel think it's a really well thought combination from KQ and I wish them the best with this new route !
 
pmartin
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Re: Kenya Airways launches NBO-GVA-FCO-NBO

Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:03 am

 
continental004
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Re: Kenya Airways launches NBO-GVA-FCO-NBO

Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:10 am

Surprised this route hasn’t already existed with the UN traffic, is there not enough of it to warrant a nonstop NBO-GVA?
 
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eastafspot
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Re: Kenya Airways launches NBO-GVA-FCO-NBO

Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:12 am

Tickets will be available for sale beginning Tuesday, January 22, 2019 with an introductory price on offer until February 15 of USD 699 from Nairobi to either city.

KQ used to fly to ZRH in the past, why GVA was favoured this time?
Fly with Air Burundi, Air Tanzania, Golden Wings Aviation, Kenya Airways, RwandAir and Uganda Airlines...Jumuiya ya Afrika mashariki !
 
cedarjet
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Re: Kenya Airways launches NBO-GVA-FCO-NBO

Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:21 am

Come on, we really only have one question — fifth freedom?
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
pmartin
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Re: Kenya Airways launches NBO-GVA-FCO-NBO

Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:27 am

For a start, Zurich is connected daily with Swiss. So this market is quite well covered. KQ has not served ZRH for a very very long time. Back then it was very much focused on tourist flow. Since then (mid-nineties), Nairobi has become a big diplomatic hub for Africa with the establishment of the UN office in Nairobi (~4,000 employees). As commodity trading hub, Geneva has strong economic links to Africa. Various global / EMEA HQ of multinationals operate in the region. So there is a strong and high yield traffic flow that underpins this route. The interesting point is that Ethiopian Airlines started a route last summer (overcapacity ?), and that Air Mauritius is doubling its capacity in Geneva next year (from 1x to 2x flights during the winter season). It is a feast of Eastern African / Indian Ocean connections.
 
pmartin
Posts: 61
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Re: Kenya Airways launches NBO-GVA-FCO-NBO

Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:28 am

continental004 wrote:
Surprised this route hasn’t already existed with the UN traffic, is there not enough of it to warrant a nonstop NBO-GVA?


The flight is triangular, so 2 out of 4 flights are non-stop.
 
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FlyRow
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Re: Kenya Airways launches NBO-GVA-FCO-NBO

Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:39 am

cedarjet wrote:
Come on, we really only have one question — fifth freedom?

Indeed, so we can open 10 extra "intra EU widebodies" !
F70-F100-RJ85-RJ70-E190-319-320-321-733-734-735-737-738-752-753-763-764-772-744-380
 
SpaceshipDC10
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Re: Kenya Airways launches NBO-GVA-FCO-NBO

Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:45 am

kottok wrote:
NBO 2350 - 0610+1 FCO 0730 - 0910 GVA 1030 - NBO 1910 --3---7 788

NBO 2350 - 0645+1 GVA 0805 - 0950 FCO 1105 - 1905 NBO 1---5-- 788


Interesting schedule. Lucky travellers won't necessarily have to go via FCO or GVA.
 
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eastafspot
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Re: Kenya Airways launches NBO-GVA-FCO-NBO

Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:53 am

pmartin wrote:
As commodity trading hub, Geneva has strong economic links to Africa. Various global / EMEA HQ of multinationals operate in the region. So there is a strong and high yield traffic flow that underpins this route. The interesting point is that Ethiopian Airlines started a route last summer (overcapacity ?), and that Air Mauritius is doubling its capacity in Geneva next year (from 1x to 2x flights during the winter season). It is a feast of Eastern African / Indian Ocean connections.


With an arrival time at 1910, pax can connect directly to these KQ destinations:

Rest of the world:
- New York
- Mumbai
- Dubai
- Bangkok/Guangzhou

East Africa:
- Addis Ababa (+1)
- Dar Es Salaam
- Entebbe (+1)
- Khartoum
- Kilimanjaro (with Precision Air)
- Kisumu (with Jambojet)
- Mombasa
- Zanzibar (with Precision Air)

Southern Africa/Indian Ocean:
- Antananarivo
- Harare
- Johannesburg
- Lusaka
- Mauritius

By the way, certainly to drain pax from ET, KQ is having crazy return fares in Premier World (business class) ex-Addis Ababa:
- ADD-NBO-FCO costs only € 657
- ADD-NBO-GVA for € 790

https://book.kenya-airways.com/plnext/k ... tion#/FPOW

Image
Fly with Air Burundi, Air Tanzania, Golden Wings Aviation, Kenya Airways, RwandAir and Uganda Airlines...Jumuiya ya Afrika mashariki !
 
MileHFL400
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Re: Kenya Airways launches NBO-GVA-FCO-NBO

Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:58 am

Glad to see this development. Will be traveling to Rome in Oct. was going to use EK from Nairobi but now will most probably use KQ.

It does seem like KQ is now aggressively trying to claw back market share from ET! I wish them all the best!

On another note doesn’t this mean that they will have to get more aircraft? It seems as though the current fleet of 8 Dreamliner s is maxed out!
Thanks and best Regards
AA
 
raylee67
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Re: Kenya Airways launches NBO-GVA-FCO-NBO

Tue Jan 22, 2019 1:43 pm

The GVA-FCO routing definitely has UN traffic in mind. Geneva is the 2nd world headquarter of UN, and it is also the headquarter of United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (which unfortunately has a lot of business in Central and East Africa). Rome is the headquarter of World Food Programme, which again has a lot of business in sub-Saharan Africa as a whole, but more so in places like Congo, South Sudan and Somalia, etc. This flight is going to have a lot of high yield traffic.
319/20/21 332/33 342/43/45 359/51 388 707 717 732/36/3G/38/39 74R/42/43/44/4E/48 757 762/63 772/7L/73/7W 788/89 D10 M80 135/40/45 175/90 DH1/4 CRJ/R7 L10
AY LH OU SR BA FI LX
AA DL UA NW AC CP WS FL NK PD
CI NH SQ KA CX JL BR OZ TG KE CA CZ NZ JQ RS
 
berari
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Re: Kenya Airways launches NBO-GVA-FCO-NBO

Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:19 am

MileHFL400 wrote:
It does seem like KQ is now aggressively trying to claw back market share from ET! I wish them all the best!


I always laugh at such comparisons of KQ with ET when KQ has way more competitors in its home turf than ET. Specific to this new route, KQ has bigger competitors in TK, EK, QR, LH, AF and MS. I can't help but shake my head when it comes to reporting related to African airlines, where the passion is greater about intra African airline competition when the real competition exists with others.

I for one am very happy about this. More African airline services that will eventually bode well with customers.
 
MileHFL400
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Re: Kenya Airways launches NBO-GVA-FCO-NBO

Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:50 am

berari wrote:
MileHFL400 wrote:
It does seem like KQ is now aggressively trying to claw back market share from ET! I wish them all the best!


I always laugh at such comparisons of KQ with ET when KQ has way more competitors in its home turf than ET. Specific to this new route, KQ has bigger competitors in TK, EK, QR, LH, AF and MS. I can't help but shake my head when it comes to reporting related to African airlines, where the passion is greater about intra African airline competition when the real competition exists with others.

I for one am very happy about this. More African airline services that will eventually bode well with customers.


I’m referring to transit competition. Heard of context?
Thanks and best Regards
AA
 
5NFGS
Posts: 101
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2016 7:14 am

Re: Kenya Airways launches NBO-GVA-FCO-NBO

Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:16 am

pmartin wrote:
For a start, Zurich is connected daily with Swiss. So this market is quite well covered. KQ has not served ZRH for a very very long time. Back then it was very much focused on tourist flow. Since then (mid-nineties), Nairobi has become a big diplomatic hub for Africa with the establishment of the UN office in Nairobi (~4,000 employees). As commodity trading hub, Geneva has strong economic links to Africa. Various global / EMEA HQ of multinationals operate in the region. So there is a strong and high yield traffic flow that underpins this route. The interesting point is that Ethiopian Airlines started a route last summer (overcapacity ?), and that Air Mauritius is doubling its capacity in Geneva next year (from 1x to 2x flights during the winter season). It is a feast of Eastern African / Indian Ocean connections.


As a West African, I have to remind you (albeit filled with shame at the fact) that ET and KQ also represent/carry West and Central African transfer traffic as none of those regions has a carrier in ZRH/GVA/FCO
A 319/320/321,A 330-200/300, A 340-300/500/600, B 737-300/400/500,B 737-700/800,B 747-300/400,B 767-200 ER/300 ER, B 777-200/200 ER,CRJ 200/900/1000,DHC-8-300/Q 300, DC-10, ERJ-195,MD-11
 
oldannyboy
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Re: Kenya Airways launches NBO-GVA-FCO-NBO

Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:37 am

raylee67 wrote:
The GVA-FCO routing definitely has UN traffic in mind. Geneva is the 2nd world headquarter of UN, and it is also the headquarter of United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (which unfortunately has a lot of business in Central and East Africa). Rome is the headquarter of World Food Programme, which again has a lot of business in sub-Saharan Africa as a whole, but more so in places like Congo, South Sudan and Somalia, etc. This flight is going to have a lot of high yield traffic.


True, Rome also has both IFAD and the FAO - and the latter is absolutely massive!
 
SCQ83
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Re: Kenya Airways launches NBO-GVA-FCO-NBO

Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:50 am

So Nairobi will have connections to those EEA cities/airports:

- Amsterdam (KL/KQ)
- Frankfurt (LH)
- Geneva (KQ)
- London LHR (AF/KQ)
- Paris CDG (AF)
- Rome FCO (KQ
- Zürich (LX))


The largest airport systems / metro areas with no connections are Madrid, Barcelona, Milan and Munich. Could any of those be realistic additions in the near future? Spain is also the largest European country without a connection to Kenya. Maybe something in the way of NBO-MXP-MAD-NBO would be interesting.
 
Coma993
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Re: Kenya Airways launches NBO-GVA-FCO-NBO

Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:53 am

cedarjet wrote:
Come on, we really only have one question — fifth freedom?


Apparently not able to book or even find FCO - GVA, or the opposite on the website.
Hopefully they grant them fifth freedom rights in the mean time.
 
SpaceshipDC10
Posts: 7054
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:44 am

Re: Kenya Airways launches NBO-GVA-FCO-NBO

Wed Jan 23, 2019 9:18 am

continental004 wrote:
Surprised this route hasn’t already existed with the UN traffic, is there not enough of it to warrant a nonstop NBO-GVA?


According to this, it has...

Kenya Airways in June 2019 is resuming service to Geneva and Rome, previously served until October 1991 and June 2012 respectively.


https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... june-2019/
 
pmartin
Posts: 61
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Re: Kenya Airways launches NBO-GVA-FCO-NBO

Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:29 am

it was announced in 1990 but never happened because of the 1st Gulf war.
 
continental004
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Re: Kenya Airways launches NBO-GVA-FCO-NBO

Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:34 am

SCQ83 wrote:
So Nairobi will have connections to those EEA cities/airports:

- Amsterdam (KL/KQ)
- Frankfurt (LH)
- Geneva (KQ)
- London LHR (AF/KQ)
- Paris CDG (AF)
- Rome FCO (KQ
- Zürich (LX))


The largest airport systems / metro areas with no connections are Madrid, Barcelona, Milan and Munich. Could any of those be realistic additions in the near future? Spain is also the largest European country without a connection to Kenya. Maybe something in the way of NBO-MXP-MAD-NBO would be interesting.


Won’t happen. There are little, if any, significant ties between Spain and East Africa.
 
evanb
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Re: Kenya Airways launches NBO-GVA-FCO-NBO

Wed Jan 23, 2019 1:06 pm

berari wrote:
I always laugh at such comparisons of KQ with ET when KQ has way more competitors in its home turf than ET. Specific to this new route, KQ has bigger competitors in TK, EK, QR, LH, AF and MS. I can't help but shake my head when it comes to reporting related to African airlines, where the passion is greater about intra African airline competition when the real competition exists with others.

I for one am very happy about this. More African airline services that will eventually bode well with customers.


More competition, as long as it's sustainable, always bodes well for customers.

You rightly point out that KQ has more competition on its home turf than ET, but that's primarily because NBO and Kenya has far more O&D traffic than ADD and Ethiopia. I think that'll change over time as Ethiopia's economic growth is much higher than Kenya. I'm always worried when KQ look to expand since they're not in the same game as the others with connecting traffic due to their higher cost base. All new routes must have a larger basis of O&D and higher yielding traffic than ET would require.
 
MileHFL400
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Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2015 11:42 am

Re: Kenya Airways launches NBO-GVA-FCO-NBO

Wed Jan 23, 2019 3:54 pm

evanb wrote:
berari wrote:
I always laugh at such comparisons of KQ with ET when KQ has way more competitors in its home turf than ET. Specific to this new route, KQ has bigger competitors in TK, EK, QR, LH, AF and MS. I can't help but shake my head when it comes to reporting related to African airlines, where the passion is greater about intra African airline competition when the real competition exists with others.

I for one am very happy about this. More African airline services that will eventually bode well with customers.


More competition, as long as it's sustainable, always bodes well for customers.

You rightly point out that KQ has more competition on its home turf than ET, but that's primarily because NBO and Kenya has far more O&D traffic than ADD and Ethiopia. I think that'll change over time as Ethiopia's economic growth is much higher than Kenya. I'm always worried when KQ look to expand since they're not in the same game as the others with connecting traffic due to their higher cost base. All new routes must have a larger basis of O&D and higher yielding traffic than ET would require.


That might change with KQ looking for tax cuts and better operating synergies with JKIA
Thanks and best Regards
AA
 
Antarius
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Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:27 pm

Re: Kenya Airways launches NBO-GVA-FCO-NBO

Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:26 pm

eastafspot wrote:

With an arrival time at 1910, pax can connect directly to these KQ destinations:

Rest of the world:
- New York
- Mumbai
- Dubai


GVA to JFK via NBO would be a record in terms of backtracking.
Militant Centrist
Let's all just use some common sense
 
SCQ83
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Re: Kenya Airways launches NBO-GVA-FCO-NBO

Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:47 pm

continental004 wrote:
Won’t happen. There are little, if any, significant ties between Spain and East Africa.


There are fewer ties between Spain and Ethiopia and ET is flying to MAD.

Evelop is starting MAD-NBO charter flights this coming summer:

https://www.europapress.es/turismo/tran ... 84432.html
 
evanb
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Re: Kenya Airways launches NBO-GVA-FCO-NBO

Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:10 pm

MileHFL400 wrote:
That might change with KQ looking for tax cuts and better operating synergies with JKIA


It'll help a little, but KQ's high cost structure is driven more by labor costs and fleet financing costs. They cannot get anywhere close to ET in this regard.
 
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eastafspot
Posts: 1767
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Re: Kenya Airways launches NBO-GVA-FCO-NBO

Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:36 pm

5NFGS wrote:
pmartin wrote:
As a West African, I have to remind you (albeit filled with shame at the fact) that ET and KQ also represent/carry West and Central African transfer traffic as none of those regions has a carrier in ZRH/GVA/FCO

When/why did AZ pull out from LOS?
Fly with Air Burundi, Air Tanzania, Golden Wings Aviation, Kenya Airways, RwandAir and Uganda Airlines...Jumuiya ya Afrika mashariki !
 
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eastafspot
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Re: Kenya Airways launches NBO-GVA-FCO-NBO

Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:12 pm

Antarius wrote:
GVA to JFK via NBO would be a record in terms of backtracking.

Lol, I've just put the departures within 5h after KQ124/KQ128 land :smile:
On the other hand, on a famous frequent flyer forum people were ready to fly KQ on a BKK-NBO-JFK trip because of a (very) good deal.
It could also work if KQ, Kenya Tourism Board, Kenya Wildlife Services and Kenya Immigration extend the offer of complimentary safari to all passengers FROM Europe (CDG, AMS, and now GVA and FCO) and not exclusively from LHR. And if they are successful and want to limit people, just limit business class or full fare economy ticket to have access to it.
What is sad though is there is no immediate connection to West African cities, forcing an overnight lay over.

SCQ83 wrote:
The largest airport systems / metro areas with no connections are Madrid, Barcelona, Milan and Munich. Could any of those be realistic additions in the near future?

Agree, if they get back one of the leased aircraft soon, KQ should launch/resume at least one German destination (FRA/MUC/TXL). Maybe at the beginning they should combine it with one of the Scandinavian cities like OSL/ARN/HEL or if too far just CPH.
Fly with Air Burundi, Air Tanzania, Golden Wings Aviation, Kenya Airways, RwandAir and Uganda Airlines...Jumuiya ya Afrika mashariki !
 
5NFGS
Posts: 101
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2016 7:14 am

Re: Kenya Airways launches NBO-GVA-FCO-NBO

Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:29 am

eastafspot wrote:
5NFGS wrote:
pmartin wrote:
As a West African, I have to remind you (albeit filled with shame at the fact) that ET and KQ also represent/carry West and Central African transfer traffic as none of those regions has a carrier in ZRH/GVA/FCO

When/why did AZ pull out from LOS?


I refer to local carriers.

Air Italy(1,3,4,6) operate to LOS from MXP, and Alitalia quit about 4 years ago IIRC so point still valid.
A 319/320/321,A 330-200/300, A 340-300/500/600, B 737-300/400/500,B 737-700/800,B 747-300/400,B 767-200 ER/300 ER, B 777-200/200 ER,CRJ 200/900/1000,DHC-8-300/Q 300, DC-10, ERJ-195,MD-11
 
b747400erf
Posts: 3174
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:33 am

Re: Kenya Airways launches NBO-GVA-FCO-NBO

Thu Jan 24, 2019 4:41 am

Anet thinks a route can be successful based on government and non government organizations having business? I got lost and walked into a marketing strategy session at the office? This can't be anet
 
berari
Posts: 920
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2016 3:47 pm

Re: Kenya Airways launches NBO-GVA-FCO-NBO

Thu Jan 24, 2019 4:42 am

MileHFL400 wrote:
berari wrote:
MileHFL400 wrote:
It does seem like KQ is now aggressively trying to claw back market share from ET! I wish them all the best!


I always laugh at such comparisons of KQ with ET when KQ has way more competitors in its home turf than ET. Specific to this new route, KQ has bigger competitors in TK, EK, QR, LH, AF and MS. I can't help but shake my head when it comes to reporting related to African airlines, where the passion is greater about intra African airline competition when the real competition exists with others.

I for one am very happy about this. More African airline services that will eventually bode well with customers.


I’m referring to transit competition. Heard of context?


My statement still stands in such context.

MileHFL400 wrote:
That might change with KQ looking for tax cuts and better operating synergies with JKIA


How much is riding on these synergies with JKIA? Lately with every KQ announcement including JKIA and NYC, each step is being hailed and labeled as the saving grace for the airline by media.

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