Dominion301
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Swoop Summer Schedule - 3 New Destinations YXU, YLW & OAK

Tue Jan 22, 2019 2:34 pm

WS' Swoop have release their full summer 2019 schedule. There are quite a few surprises. The big winner is new destination YXU, which is gaining 6x or 7x weekly service to YHZ, YXX and YEG. Unlike most Swoop domestic services that have replaced mainline, these are all new...although WS have in the past flown limited addition YXU-YVR and YXU-YHZ service 3-4x weekly.

The other new domestic destination is YLW, but that's just replacing WS mainline on the summer seasonal YLW-YWG route.

OAK is the new transborder destination 3x weekly out of YEG, which I think is also the first ever service by a Canadian air carrier to OAK.

The other surprising thing is that a lot of sun routes will remain over the summer months and some at more than just Saturday-only service.

https://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/s ... 90972.html
 
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KLMatSJC
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Re: Swoop Summer Schedule - 3 New Destinations YXU, YLW & OAK

Tue Jan 22, 2019 3:04 pm

Dominion301 wrote:
which I think is also the first ever service by a Canadian air carrier to OAK.


I believe Harmony went to OAK for a few months in 2006/2007.
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dabpit
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Re: Swoop Summer Schedule - 3 New Destinations YXU, YLW & OAK

Tue Jan 22, 2019 3:10 pm

They are also adding YEG-MCO Saturday only on June 1st.
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master14225
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Re: Swoop Summer Schedule - 3 New Destinations YXU, YLW & OAK

Tue Jan 22, 2019 3:10 pm

Wouldn't YXX-OAK be more appropriate? I feel YXX could use some more new transborder routes like that as it could've competed with what BLI has.
 
wedgetail737
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Re: Swoop Summer Schedule - 3 New Destinations YXU, YLW & OAK

Tue Jan 22, 2019 3:11 pm

HP, although obviously not a Canadian carrier, flew to YYC out of OAK for a short time.

Harmony flew between OAK and YVR as you mentioned before their demise.
 
Steelhead
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Re: Swoop Summer Schedule - 3 New Destinations YXU, YLW & OAK

Tue Jan 22, 2019 3:32 pm

I was thinking for a while, that YXU should be a market for any of the new Canadian LCC's. Another door closed for Jetlines, Flair etc. Now only YOW remains open. Was hoping for YHM - YOW and YHM - YUL. YHM - YLW could work too.
 
Dominion301
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Re: Swoop Summer Schedule - 3 New Destinations YXU, YLW & OAK

Tue Jan 22, 2019 3:39 pm

Steelhead wrote:
I was thinking for a while, that YXU should be a market for any of the new Canadian LCC's. Another door closed for Jetlines, Flair etc. Now only YOW remains open. Was hoping for YHM - YOW and YHM - YUL. YHM - YLW could work too.


Why Ottawa and Montreal have been completely been avoided until now has been a complete head scratcher, lack of French speaking F/As notwithstanding (though I did notice just last week unlike Flair and Swoop, Jetlines' website is now bilingual, which is a sign they will be at YHU). However, I've heard rumblings that Flair will be coming to YOW this summer.

I fully agree that London, which definitely has been underserved for a city of 1/2 million was ripe for the ULCC picking and WS 'swooped' in before anyone else did. I checked and the only cut WS is making is reducing YXU-YYZ to 2x. As such, YXU's traffic should boom this summer and the airport should now easily surpass 600k pax for 2019.

Then there's YQB, YYT, YQR and YXE remaining in terms of medium-sized non-ULCC served markets, plus YKF if anyone's daring enough to try that.

There's still lots of tertiary markets that could benefit from an ULCC like YSJ, YFC, YYG, YQM, YQG, YSB, YCD, YQQ, YXS, etc....really bold would be YGK once the runway expansion in Kingston in completed.

wedgetail737 wrote:
HP, although obviously not a Canadian carrier, flew to YYC out of OAK for a short time.

Harmony flew between OAK and YVR as you mentioned before their demise.


Really? Well speaking of head scratchers, Harmony sure was one. A billionaire that really didn't have a clue about the airline business that finally got tired of losing millions.
 
CFWAD
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Re: Swoop Summer Schedule - 3 New Destinations YXU, YLW & OAK

Tue Jan 22, 2019 4:05 pm

Nice to see the expanded route network. I cannot imagine YEG-OAK lasting beyond the summer. YEG has a very hard time keeping transborder service, and with the economy, will be a very hard to to support. Also, OAK in the summer? And the Bay area in general is not cheap once you get there.

Interesting moves, however. Swoop got Flair to move YHM to YYZ, and now Swoop is moving into the rest of the, and under served, Southern Ontario market.

If Flair starts selling $1 fares before spring break, let's not hope it's 2005 again!
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Re: Swoop Summer Schedule - 3 New Destinations YXU, YLW & OAK

Tue Jan 22, 2019 5:21 pm

CFWAD wrote:
Interesting moves, however. Swoop got Flair to move YHM to YYZ, and now Swoop is moving into the rest of the, and under served, Southern Ontario market.


Indeed, and YXU is spot in the middle of the area west of YHM/YYZ.
 
jimbo737
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Re: Swoop Summer Schedule - 3 New Destinations YXU, YLW & OAK

Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:11 pm

Swoops network avoids overlapping WS’s network, and focuses, generally speaking, on lower cost airports, few as they are, in Canada.

Claiming to be “low cost” and operating out of YVR, YUL, YOW, YYC, YYZ etc is an oxymoron.
 
yeginleduc
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Re: Swoop Summer Schedule - 3 New Destinations YXU, YLW & OAK

Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:41 pm

YEG-OAK?? Wow. I didn't see that one coming... I mean it could work from YEG but they need to try YYC or YVR first. But 3x weekly means mostly OD and leisure but the Bay Area should be a business route.

I have to figure EIA is subsidizing the new attempt somehow and need some time to process this one. If EIA is subsidizing this one then don't annoy AC again as they are operating the YEG-SFO once daily.
 
smallmj
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Re: Swoop Summer Schedule - 3 New Destinations YXU, YLW & OAK

Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:40 pm

Lost in the details is the fact that YHZ-YHM is going to 13X weekly from 7X. Add in the 6X YHZ-YXU and that is a big jump in Swoop traffic to YHZ.
 
SurfandSnow
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Re: Swoop Summer Schedule - 3 New Destinations YXU, YLW & OAK

Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:46 pm

Interesting. I wonder if Swoop's gateway to Southern California could end up being ONT.
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yegbey01
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Re: Swoop Summer Schedule - 3 New Destinations YXU, YLW & OAK

Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:50 pm

yeginleduc wrote:
YEG-OAK?? Wow. I didn't see that one coming... I mean it could work from YEG but they need to try YYC or YVR first. But 3x weekly means mostly OD and leisure but the Bay Area should be a business route.

I have to figure EIA is subsidizing the new attempt somehow and need some time to process this one. If EIA is subsidizing this one then don't annoy AC again as they are operating the YEG-SFO once daily.



SFO is very well served from YYC and YVR. No point in adding more seats and affect yields. YEG-SFO is served by a lone CRJ700. So Swoop will fill a gap. Will passengers fly to OAK? They just might. Look at Phoenix-Mesa. YEG now has 6 weekly flights and it is proving to be an alternative to PHX.
 
SurfandSnow
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Re: Swoop Summer Schedule - 3 New Destinations YXU, YLW & OAK

Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:58 pm

yegbey01 wrote:
Will passengers fly to OAK? They just might.


Absolutely. Public transit links to San Francisco, as well as easy access to Wine Country, Lake Tahoe, and other popular tourist areas in northern California.
Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
 
ucdtim17
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Re: Swoop Summer Schedule - 3 New Destinations YXU, YLW & OAK

Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:39 pm

SurfandSnow wrote:
yegbey01 wrote:
Will passengers fly to OAK? They just might.


Absolutely. Public transit links to San Francisco, as well as easy access to Wine Country, Lake Tahoe, and other popular tourist areas in northern California.


Well there's what people *should* do based on the fundamentals of the location you cite and there's what people *actually do*, which is fly to the airport with "San Francisco" in its name. Swoop will likely be next in a long line of second tier/oddball airlines that try OAK but ultimately fail for one reason or another (see airlines that previously briefly offered service to Canada mentioned above).
 
klm617
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Re: Swoop Summer Schedule - 3 New Destinations YXU, YLW & OAK

Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:46 pm

What about Swoop adding YQG ?
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yeginleduc
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Re: Swoop Summer Schedule - 3 New Destinations YXU, YLW & OAK

Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:26 am

yegbey01 wrote:
yeginleduc wrote:
YEG-OAK?? Wow. I didn't see that one coming... I mean it could work from YEG but they need to try YYC or YVR first. But 3x weekly means mostly OD and leisure but the Bay Area should be a business route.

I have to figure EIA is subsidizing the new attempt somehow and need some time to process this one. If EIA is subsidizing this one then don't annoy AC again as they are operating the YEG-SFO once daily.



SFO is very well served from YYC and YVR. No point in adding more seats and affect yields. YEG-SFO is served by a lone CRJ700. So Swoop will fill a gap. Will passengers fly to OAK? They just might. Look at Phoenix-Mesa. YEG now has 6 weekly flights and it is proving to be an alternative to PHX.


The YYC/YEG-AZA service works cause of the amount of homes in the Phoenix area owned by Albertans. Im sure the WS and AA services from YEG-PHX are more for connections now as people learn how to use Mesa Airport to access their homes in the area.

Dont get me wrong, i want the service to work for Swoop and there is a big tourism market in the Bay Area but maybe doing something like ONT or LA Basin like another poster suggested might be better for the tourists seeking warmer climates. I mean Ocean and Baker Beach's are beautiful but normally not anything warm enough.

Also does Swoop do connections to WestJet mainline or within Swoop itself? The schedule doesn't seem to allow for many connections inbound to YEG.

YEGOAK 9:00 AM 10:50 AM Nonstop 2h 50m WO738 737-800
OAKYEG 11:40 AM 3:22 PM Nonstop 2h 42m WO739 737-800
 
Dominion301
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Re: Swoop Summer Schedule - 3 New Destinations YXU, YLW & OAK

Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:51 am

jimbo737 wrote:
Swoops network avoids overlapping WS’s network, and focuses, generally speaking, on lower cost airports, few as they are, in Canada.

Claiming to be “low cost” and operating out of YVR, YUL, YOW, YYC, YYZ etc is an oxymoron.


Not sure YHZ, YEG and YWG where Swoop currently flies to are much cheaper to operate at than those you cite, especially YOW.
 
Dominion301
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Re: Swoop Summer Schedule - 3 New Destinations YXU, YLW & OAK

Wed Jan 23, 2019 3:43 pm

Looks like the YXU Airport Authority might have incentivized WS into expanding Swoop into YXU:

https://lfpress.com/news/local-news/lon ... fell-swoop

When the extra flights start, the airport will cut the airport improvement fee it adds to each passenger’s ticket from $15 to $7.


That's a significant difference.
 
Whiteguy
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Re: Swoop Summer Schedule - 3 New Destinations YXU, YLW & OAK

Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:24 pm

yeginleduc wrote:
yegbey01 wrote:
yeginleduc wrote:
YEG-OAK?? Wow. I didn't see that one coming... I mean it could work from YEG but they need to try YYC or YVR first. But 3x weekly means mostly OD and leisure but the Bay Area should be a business route.

I have to figure EIA is subsidizing the new attempt somehow and need some time to process this one. If EIA is subsidizing this one then don't annoy AC again as they are operating the YEG-SFO once daily.



SFO is very well served from YYC and YVR. No point in adding more seats and affect yields. YEG-SFO is served by a lone CRJ700. So Swoop will fill a gap. Will passengers fly to OAK? They just might. Look at Phoenix-Mesa. YEG now has 6 weekly flights and it is proving to be an alternative to PHX.


The YYC/YEG-AZA service works cause of the amount of homes in the Phoenix area owned by Albertans. Im sure the WS and AA services from YEG-PHX are more for connections now as people learn how to use Mesa Airport to access their homes in the area.

Dont get me wrong, i want the service to work for Swoop and there is a big tourism market in the Bay Area but maybe doing something like ONT or LA Basin like another poster suggested might be better for the tourists seeking warmer climates. I mean Ocean and Baker Beach's are beautiful but normally not anything warm enough.

Also does Swoop do connections to WestJet mainline or within Swoop itself? The schedule doesn't seem to allow for many connections inbound to YEG.

YEGOAK 9:00 AM 10:50 AM Nonstop 2h 50m WO738 737-800
OAKYEG 11:40 AM 3:22 PM Nonstop 2h 42m WO739 737-800


There are no connections from Swoop to Westjet at all....
 
CFWAD
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Re: Swoop Summer Schedule - 3 New Destinations YXU, YLW & OAK

Wed Jan 23, 2019 5:23 pm

jimbo737 wrote:
Swoops network avoids overlapping WS’s network, and focuses, generally speaking, on lower cost airports, few as they are, in Canada.

Claiming to be “low cost” and operating out of YVR, YUL, YOW, YYC, YYZ etc is an oxymoron.


Swoop has taken flying away from WS. Find it slightly odd from someone who was in charge of network planning for, at the the time, a LCC, argues now that YVR, YYC and YYZ are an oxymoron.

Also, WestJET, is now flying some legs on of their original trunk routes with their regional subsidiary on a Q400. Can't remember the last time I saw AC offering YEG-YVR on a QK DH8. Certain routes, yes, but over the Rockies on a scheduled Q4? No thanks.
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jimbo737
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Re: Swoop Summer Schedule - 3 New Destinations YXU, YLW & OAK

Wed Jan 23, 2019 6:55 pm

By international standards, there’s only one low cost airport in Canada. YXX.

There are a number of notoriously low yield type markets in Canada, and Swoop is in most of them. By design.

Swoop has, thus far, avoided any overlap with mainline markets.

Whereas you can quite easily fly both Rouge and AC from, for example, Kelowna, Kamloops, Victoria etc to Toronto when they are operated, it’d be very obtuse to attempt to do the same on WS / Swoop. That is not by accident.

Unlike AC, who park about 22% of their capacity in Q4 and Q1, WS’s fleet stays very busy on a year round basis.

In the winter months, and esp on weekends, WS’s fleet is very busy. It makes no sense operating empty 737’s between Edmonton and Vancouver on Saturday late afternoon and evening and on one mid day rotation on Sunday in January when the aircraft are far better utilized operating 4-5 hr sectors to sun destinations on these days. Substituting the occasional Q400 rotation seasonally makes sense on these routes.

The demand is north - south, not east- west at that time of year, and especially on the last three flights of the day on Saturdays from Edmonton to Vancouver in January.

WS could expand its fleet to have multiple aircraft types available to it ranging from 19 to 500 seats, with aircraft built by Boeing, Airbus, Emb and Bombardier, to fill every niche under the sun. Doing so would put unit costs severely out of whack, esp in the winter months, as is the case with AC.

There’s a reason why AC buries it’s 4th quarter numbers press releases on Fridays before long weekends, and doesn’t even include a 4th quarter P&L in their 4Q press release like every other publicly traded airline in North America. They aren’t pretty numbers, even with cheap fuel.
 
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Re: Swoop Summer Schedule - 3 New Destinations YXU, YLW & OAK

Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:10 pm

jimbo737 wrote:

There’s a reason why AC buries it’s 4th quarter numbers press releases on Fridays before long weekends, and doesn’t even include a 4th quarter P&L in their 4Q press release like every other publicly traded airline in North America. They aren’t pretty numbers, even with cheap fuel.


And yet Air Canada's market cap is trading at 3.1x WestJet's. Wasn't it not long ago that WestJet was worth more than AC.
Let's compare at Year End 2019 shall we?
 
sixtyseven
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Re: Swoop Summer Schedule - 3 New Destinations YXU, YLW & OAK

Wed Jan 23, 2019 9:30 pm

jimbo737 wrote:
By international standards, there’s only one low cost airport in Canada. YXX.

There are a number of notoriously low yield type markets in Canada, and Swoop is in most of them. By design.

Swoop has, thus far, avoided any overlap with mainline markets.

Whereas you can quite easily fly both Rouge and AC from, for example, Kelowna, Kamloops, Victoria etc to Toronto when they are operated, it’d be very obtuse to attempt to do the same on WS / Swoop. That is not by accident.

Unlike AC, who park about 22% of their capacity in Q4 and Q1, WS’s fleet stays very busy on a year round basis.

In the winter months, and esp on weekends, WS’s fleet is very busy. It makes no sense operating empty 737’s between Edmonton and Vancouver on Saturday late afternoon and evening and on one mid day rotation on Sunday in January when the aircraft are far better utilized operating 4-5 hr sectors to sun destinations on these days. Substituting the occasional Q400 rotation seasonally makes sense on these routes.

The demand is north - south, not east- west at that time of year, and especially on the last three flights of the day on Saturdays from Edmonton to Vancouver in January.

WS could expand its fleet to have multiple aircraft types available to it ranging from 19 to 500 seats, with aircraft built by Boeing, Airbus, Emb and Bombardier, to fill every niche under the sun. Doing so would put unit costs severely out of whack, esp in the winter months, as is the case with AC.

There’s a reason why AC buries it’s 4th quarter numbers press releases on Fridays before long weekends, and doesn’t even include a 4th quarter P&L in their 4Q press release like every other publicly traded airline in North America. They aren’t pretty numbers, even with cheap fuel.


The ole quarterly press release argument. You’ve tried this before. Releases before summer long weekends were akin to admitting defeat.

I’d suggest if anyone should try and hide things it’d be Westjet. Who’s stock has been in the sh8tter for awhile now.

Which should be reflected in your pension cheque. Oops, typo. Profit sharing cheque. Whoops.
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Re: Swoop Summer Schedule - 3 New Destinations YXU, YLW & OAK

Wed Jan 23, 2019 9:43 pm

SurfandSnow wrote:

Interesting. I wonder if Swoop's gateway to Southern California could end up being ONT.


Should be a no-brainer if you're doing low cost. It may be harder to find Canadian low cost airports but having one on the US end might make the lower fares work. See PIE.
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Re: Swoop Summer Schedule - 3 New Destinations YXU, YLW & OAK

Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:22 pm

jimbo737 wrote:
Unlike AC, who park about 22% of their capacity in Q4 and Q1, WS’s fleet stays very busy on a year round basis.

So which is better? The airline that has had record profits over the last 5 years, Air Canada, or Westjet, the airline that ... yawn ... has not? You keep forgetting, that ever since Westjet has left its area of profitability and diversified, they have had lackluster results. Sooner or later, the stockholders are going to notice!

I'd sure hate to be the guy that publicly endorses Westjet's (mis)direction.

For the record, for a lot of Q1 and Q4, most real airlines "get stuff done". That is when (among other things) heavy maintenance is performed, aircraft get painted, cabin reconfiguration are done, flight crew transition training is completed and most vacations are taken. It sure as hell isn't in July when everyone at Air Canada is running at 110% and year end results show just that!
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
jimbo737
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Re: Swoop Summer Schedule - 3 New Destinations YXU, YLW & OAK

Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:51 pm

No one “gets things done” more than AC in the 4th and subsequent first quarters. They have more iron out of service than anyone else I can think of in the business, but incur all the costs of the idleness. Compare 3Q unit costs when the plant is running flat out and at peak efficiency compared to the rest of the year.

Cheap fuel has made things look very nice, but how long does that last?

Even 2Q 2018 was pretty lackluster as you recall, even after the yield windfall from all that traffic booking away from WS for about 5 weeks.

One outfit is putting the building blocks in place for the future, the other is enjoying the fruits of cheap fuel and not having paid income taxes for about 7 years.

Companies with something to brag about don’t issue quarterly numbers on Fridays before long weekends and two weeks after everyone else has reported and 46 days after the quarter ended.

That’s why AC issued their recently stellar 3Q numbers just 31 days after the quarter ended and on a Wednesday. Maximize the exposure of the numbers on days when the media and markets are hungry for a story. Friday before a 3 day weekend when the markets are closed? Not so much.

Do you recall what the economic news was from the previous Friday on the following Tuesday? That’s the idea.

When you look at their 4th quarter numbers compared to the industry, you’ll understand why they employ that strategy. It makes complete sense, but you never see blue chip companies play those sorts of games.

The only other publicly traded airline I can think of that released its numbers on a Friday was Vanguard out of KC in the late 90’s.
 
SurfandSnow
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Re: Swoop Summer Schedule - 3 New Destinations YXU, YLW & OAK

Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:48 am

OzarkD9S wrote:
Should be a no-brainer if you're doing low cost. It may be harder to find Canadian low cost airports but having one on the US end might make the lower fares work. See PIE.


I agree. SoCal could be served cheaply in one fell swoop via ONT - rent a car and you can easily access Los Angeles, Orange County, Palm Springs and even San Diego within an hour or 2 (depending on traffic). WS already serves LAX, SNA, PSP and SAN, of course.
Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
 
CFWAD
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Re: Swoop Summer Schedule - 3 New Destinations YXU, YLW & OAK

Thu Jan 24, 2019 2:48 am

Ugh... Although I respect jimbo (sometimes it's hard), and almost everyone on here, I don't enjoy breaking out 3 new tabs to decipher this argument. I do find it slightly humorous that a pilot (whom I have nothing but the utmost respect for), provides more facts than someone with your background, jimbo. I trust longhauler to land me CATIII and get me home safely. I trust you to make it affordable.

Since 2004, apart from 4 763s. WS has grown organically with new Boeing aircraft. AC, on the other hand, has acted more like DL (partly due to maturity) and has an entire team focused on aircraft acquisition. Airline success is not necessarily based on the best routes.. Airplanes are real estate. DL is a prime example as to who succeeds from it. So you can fly YEG-OAK all you want, but when you find the capital to be first in line to buy brand new Boeings, and then sell/lease back to fly them for free for 10 years - that is where you make your money long term. Just like AC has learned to do!





Also, take note of my tag and consider I know a little something about how WS ran and is run.
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BML87
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Re: Swoop Summer Schedule - 3 New Destinations YXU, YLW & OAK

Thu Jan 24, 2019 4:01 am

jimbo737 wrote:
Swoop has, thus far, avoided any overlap with mainline markets.


But both Swoop and WestJet operate YEG-YWG and YEG-LAS.
 
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Re: Swoop Summer Schedule - 3 New Destinations YXU, YLW & OAK

Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:11 am

BML87 wrote:
jimbo737 wrote:
Swoop has, thus far, avoided any overlap with mainline markets.


But both Swoop and WestJet operate YEG-YWG and YEG-LAS.

WS originally axed their YEG-LAS flight when WO announced their service. Not sure why WS reinstated the service, maybe because RV started the same service this past season?

WS service is also no longer daily, IIRC its currently Monday, Thursday and Friday departing YEG at 0830 and Sunday's at 1815.
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jimbo737
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Re: Swoop Summer Schedule - 3 New Destinations YXU, YLW & OAK

Thu Jan 24, 2019 2:20 pm

There is no such thing as “free airplanes”.

Airplanes are cheap. Flying them is expensive.

There are all kinds of “free” MD80’s available out there, not to mention a host of other types, yet most are parked in the desert or are already beer cans.

What is saved on rent is usually more than made up for by fuel inefficiency, lack of reliability / low utilization and huge maintenance expenses.

“Free airplanes”, which, by definition, will be somewhere north of 23 years old, and likely older, require the same or more labor, (esp maintenance due to aging aircraft mods), infrastructure and general overhead. The pilots flying them aren’t free, nor are the flight attendants. They require the same underwing attention, the same gate agents, the same CRS fee per booking, the same...well, you get the drift.

Cheap fuel has camouflaged the issue for a few years but certain quarters in 2018 when fuel went north of $70 a bbl exposed the myth pretty clearly. WS dumped the -200’s when it was obvious fuel was going to stick north of $37.50 bbl for the duration.

The “free airplanes” concept appeals to the mindset of some, but it doesn’t hold much water in the real world. Saving $150k a month on WB aircraft rentals for aircraft that are in the final years of their economic life doesn’t really move the dial in the grand scheme of things when other factors are considered.

Run the numbers through and you’d see that.

Now, if infrastructure / labor could be proportionately shed when the aircraft are parked on a seasonal basis, it would make a lot of sense. Alas, that’s not what happens in the real world. Those “free aircraft” are expensive, even when they are not flying.
 
BML87
Posts: 59
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2017 6:55 pm

Re: Swoop Summer Schedule - 3 New Destinations YXU, YLW & OAK

Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:50 pm

ACDC8 wrote:
BML87 wrote:
jimbo737 wrote:
Swoop has, thus far, avoided any overlap with mainline markets.


But both Swoop and WestJet operate YEG-YWG and YEG-LAS.

WS originally axed their YEG-LAS flight when WO announced their service. Not sure why WS reinstated the service, maybe because RV started the same service this past season?

WS service is also no longer daily, IIRC its currently Monday, Thursday and Friday departing YEG at 0830 and Sunday's at 1815.


It was reinstated less than a week after they dropped it because of backlash... not able to earn/redeem WestJet dollars on Swoop, not able to book Vacation packages on Swoop, being rebooked via YYC instead of direct.
 
Dominion301
Topic Author
Posts: 2256
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Re: Swoop Summer Schedule - 3 New Destinations YXU, YLW & OAK

Thu Feb 21, 2019 3:00 pm

Well AC is now also adding a nonstop of its own in YXU - a daily summer seasonal Rouge 319 to YYC: https://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/a ... 86953.html

YXU will almost certainly be the fastest growing airport in Canada in 2019.

I think this will be AC's 3rd or 4th attempt at YXU-YYC. As I can recall, they've tried it a couple of times on mainline, once on Zip and now on Rouge.
 
SpaceshipDC10
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Re: Swoop Summer Schedule - 3 New Destinations YXU, YLW & OAK

Thu Feb 21, 2019 3:51 pm

Dominion301 wrote:
YXU will almost certainly be the fastest growing airport in Canada in 2019.


In 2018, YXU served +/-536,000 passengers. With Swoop's three new routes and RV latest addition, this represents 178.038 additional seats to/from YXU. If by any chance all of those were to be filled, London would experience a growth of 33,2%
 
Dominion301
Topic Author
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Re: Swoop Summer Schedule - 3 New Destinations YXU, YLW & OAK

Thu Feb 21, 2019 4:14 pm

SpaceshipDC10 wrote:
Dominion301 wrote:
YXU will almost certainly be the fastest growing airport in Canada in 2019.


In 2018, YXU served +/-536,000 passengers. With Swoop's three new routes and RV latest addition, this represents 178.038 additional seats to/from YXU. If by any chance all of those were to be filled, London would experience a growth of 33,2%


So if all these new routes operate at a very conservative 82% load factor, you're looking at growth in the 25% range. In addition to this, with the draw-down of the DH1 fleet (the last 10 are being fully consolidated at YYZ), AC are increasing capacity on YXU-YOW by 35% starting May 1st. So it looks like a minimum of 25% growth will happen at YXU in 2019. Would not be surprised to see north of 30% as I would not be surprised to hear Swoop announce transborder routes out of YXU for winter 2019-20.
 
jimbo737
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Re: Swoop Summer Schedule - 3 New Destinations YXU, YLW & OAK

Thu Feb 21, 2019 5:05 pm

It's always a good idea to use a sub brand to bypass your fortress hub 90 miles down the road, with 11 daily non-stops connecting into the network, including one stops out the ying yang to Calgary with canibalizing non stop on the discount brand.

That'll open up about 120 seats a day on the YXU-YYZ flights.

What the Lord giveth, the Lord taketh away.....

It's an even better idea do it when your fully allocated, stage length adjusted unit costs are about 30% higher than your competitors.

As a result of this innovative move, I'm sure United is planning Sacramento - Houston flights, bypassing either SFO or DEN, Delta is planning n/s Columbus, GA to SLC flights, bypassing ATL and AA is simply itching to operate Waco to Seattle, over flying DFW.

I mean, seriously, who can resist copying the strategy that led to that mighty .89% operating margin, (with interest considered an expense - it is), and a BELF of 80.53% AC generated last quarter......
 
flight152
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Re: Swoop Summer Schedule - 3 New Destinations YXU, YLW & OAK

Thu Feb 21, 2019 5:09 pm

Swoop? Flair? I think we should thank the Canadians for coming up with the dumbest sounding airline names.
 
Dominion301
Topic Author
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Re: Swoop Summer Schedule - 3 New Destinations YXU, YLW & OAK

Thu Feb 21, 2019 6:04 pm

jimbo737 wrote:
It's always a good idea to use a sub brand to bypass your fortress hub 90 miles down the road, with 11 daily non-stops connecting into the network, including one stops out the ying yang to Calgary with canibalizing non stop on the discount brand.

That'll open up about 120 seats a day on the YXU-YYZ flights.

What the Lord giveth, the Lord taketh away.....

It's an even better idea do it when your fully allocated, stage length adjusted unit costs are about 30% higher than your competitors.

As a result of this innovative move, I'm sure United is planning Sacramento - Houston flights, bypassing either SFO or DEN, Delta is planning n/s Columbus, GA to SLC flights, bypassing ATL and AA is simply itching to operate Waco to Seattle, over flying DFW.

I mean, seriously, who can resist copying the strategy that led to that mighty .89% operating margin, (with interest considered an expense - it is), and a BELF of 80.53% AC generated last quarter......


Even if 120 YXU-YYZ seats will open up as a result of this addition, their YYZ fortress will no doubt absorb it. AC were surely getting slaughtered on YXU-Western Canada traffic with zero nonstops (with only backtracking as on option) to WS' 3 mainline and now 2 daily Swoop flights in summer. This will level the playing field a bit. It is true that AC mainline's cost base is not competitive to fly YXU-YYC nonstop as evidenced by the pullouts in the past. Rouge solves that problem.

BTW look up Sacramento-Houston with UA for their 'innovative move'. Their 2x daily on SMF-IAH must cannibalize their SFO and DEN ops so badly that they fly it not just once, but twice daily and 3x in summer, with equipment as big as a 739 to boot. But the US is a completely different marketplace to with > 1 million sized cities all over the continent. Compare that domestically with AC who on a year-round basis connects every single city pair in Canada nonstop at least 1x daily within Canada's cities with a population > 1 million. It's why AC still dominate biz travellers, especially in eastern Canada. Compare that with WS using a 'sub brand' with to fly 11x weekly YEG-YHM flights this winter vs. apparently the demand for YEG-YOW/YUL this winter can in their eyes support ZERO weekly. WS claiming to be a national network carrier is still a joke at this point.

Maybe FLYYUL can chime in as to the absurdity of AC offering a nonstop on a route that WS has been serving for over 15 years, with a product that is appropriate for the SW Ontario marketplace.
 
BML87
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Re: Swoop Summer Schedule - 3 New Destinations YXU, YLW & OAK

Sat Feb 23, 2019 7:48 pm

While Swoop did add YXU-YEG/YXX, WestJet cancelled YXU-YWG.
 
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spinkid
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Re: Swoop Summer Schedule - 3 New Destinations YXU, YLW & OAK

Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:03 pm

As a non canadian I'm hopelessly confused with all these airport codes. ohhhhhh, how I miss the hover over feature of the old site :(

In other news. I'm waiting for Swoop to unveil a commercial based on Tag Team's hit song from the 90's

"SWOOP! There it is!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSOR85cP9jM
 
CFWAD
Posts: 86
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:36 pm

Re: Swoop Summer Schedule - 3 New Destinations YXU, YLW & OAK

Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:36 pm

flight152 wrote:
Swoop? Flair? I think we should thank the Canadians for coming up with the dumbest sounding airline names.


Add to that Zoom, Zip, Jazz, Tango, Harmony and Roots. And wait to see what Enerjet will rebrand as. We definitely know how to give the marketing companies investors money in this country.
CaVOK
A300.310.319.320.321.332.333.343.B722.732.733.734.735.736.73G.738.739.742.74M.752.762.763.772.773.779.CR2.CR7.DC9.DC10.DH1.DH3.DH4.E135.E175. E195.MD83
 
Dominion301
Topic Author
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Re: Swoop Summer Schedule - 3 New Destinations YXU, YLW & OAK

Sun Feb 24, 2019 2:31 am

BML87 wrote:
While Swoop did add YXU-YEG/YXX, WestJet cancelled YXU-YWG.


Well look at that. So the net gain in seats is actually far less at YXU. Assuming the launching YXU routes are successful, bringing back YWG on Swoop in 2020 would seem likely. BTW, do WS staff above-the-wing handle Swoops or is that contracted out to a vendor?

spinkid wrote:
As a non canadian I'm hopelessly confused with all these airport codes. ohhhhhh, how I miss the hover over feature of the old site :(

In other news. I'm waiting for Swoop to unveil a commercial based on Tag Team's hit song from the 90's

"SWOOP! There it is!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSOR85cP9jM


“Y” what can we say, us Canadians are a special bunch ;)

We actually do have several airports with scheduled air service that don’t start with a “Y”. There are a few airports starting with Z and X codes too. The most notable (and I think the only one with security screeners) is ZBF aka Bathurst, NB.
 
CFWAD
Posts: 86
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:36 pm

Re: Swoop Summer Schedule - 3 New Destinations YXU, YLW & OAK

Sun Feb 24, 2019 8:53 am

BTW, do WS staff above-the-wing handle Swoops or is that contracted out to a vendor?

Contracted. On a Friday, WS staff were welcoming guests YEG-YXX. Saturday, contractors were at the same gate to welcome Swoop (Tango level fare) customers YEG-YXX. And this was a legacy route.
CaVOK
A300.310.319.320.321.332.333.343.B722.732.733.734.735.736.73G.738.739.742.74M.752.762.763.772.773.779.CR2.CR7.DC9.DC10.DH1.DH3.DH4.E135.E175. E195.MD83
 
tmac22
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2015 9:18 pm

Re: Swoop Summer Schedule - 3 New Destinations YXU, YLW & OAK

Tue Feb 26, 2019 4:57 pm

Westjet Encore just announced daily YXU-YUL beginning June 24th

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