I’m assuming this is a Scoot flight? CN anyone confirm from the video?

I’m quite surprised at the Cabin Crew response, not exactly taking charge, more spectating. Having done the job myself I’m putting that down to youth and inexperience perhaps, they look very young. Not a criticism , it’s a startling situation at 35,000ft!

Shame on the pax fighting though....


https://news.sky.com/video/vertical-vid ... 4-11614812

FCAFLYBOY wrote:

I’m assuming this is a Scoot flight? CN anyone confirm from the video?

I’m quite surprised at the Cabin Crew response, not exactly taking charge, more spectating. Having done the job myself I’m putting that down to youth and inexperience perhaps, they look very young. Not a criticism , it’s a startling situation at 35,000ft!

Shame on the pax fighting though....


https://news.sky.com/video/vertical-vid ... 4-11614812

Flight was Scoot flight TR7 from Gold Coast (OOL) to Singapore (SIN). Flight diverted to SYD.

What can they really do though? Why Sydney over Brisbane--just curious. I hope they're fully punished with jail time and their lives ruined.

hz747300 wrote:

What can they really do though? Why Sydney over Brisbane--just curious. I hope they're fully punished with jail time and their lives ruined.

Scoot flies to Sydney as well, it’s easier to relocate passengers there. (Plus lots more SQ flight if they gonna put some pax there)

Bogans.

But - we need to have a debate around the question of if airline travel has become too cheap. When people are flying from London to Eastern Europe, or from Queensland to Asia, expressly for drunken weekends, I think we have a problem. I am not just referring to the undesirable social behaviours, I am referring to the environmental impact of the increase in the number of flights. And of the welfare of the staff who work for the airlines - are they being paid enough? Are the airlines being allowed to exploit their staff too much?

Where is the line between acceptable cost and too cheap? Have we crossed that line?

vhtje wrote:

But - we need to have a debate around the question of if airline travel has become too cheap. When people are flying from London to Eastern Europe, or from Queensland to Asia, expressly for drunken weekends, I think we have a problem. I am not just referring to the undesirable social behaviours, I am referring to the environmental impact of the increase in the number of flights. And of the welfare of the staff who work for the airlines - are they being paid enough? Are the airlines being allowed to exploit their staff too much?

Where is the line between acceptable cost and too cheap? Have we crossed that line?

That's the 21st century version of Lord Wellington’s lament:

“[Railroads will] only encourage the common people to move about needlessly.”

What can be done?
-Stop selling any alcohol on board
-don't permit any alcohol as carry on
-breathalize "problem" passengers before boarding
-blacklist any rowdies for any airline travel

FCAFLYBOY wrote:

I’m assuming this is a Scoot flight? CN anyone confirm from the video?

I’m quite surprised at the Cabin Crew response, not exactly taking charge, more spectating. Having done the job myself I’m putting that down to youth and inexperience perhaps, they look very young. Not a criticism , it’s a startling situation at 35,000ft!

Shame on the pax fighting though....


https://news.sky.com/video/vertical-vid ... 4-11614812

Be interesting to find out if the pax was drinking his own alcohol, or purchasing it onboard. In Australia we have the responsible service of alcohol (RSA) which is a certificate all cabin crew and staff working in venues serving alcohol are required to have. It’s linked with a liqueur license, and place legal responsibility upon the venue. At which point Scoot and the cabin crew are required to monitor alcohol consumption, and stop service when customer get too close to intoxication, as such really Scoot is responsible. Is there a Singapore equivalent of the RSA?

If the customer was drinking their own booze, also a possibility the cabin crew can only do their best to monitor.

Regardless pax should be blacklisted for 10year on all carriers.... Australia needs to toughen up its alcohol abuse laws, and not a blanket lock out law style ban either. Something for offenders.

What laws were broken? Enforce those that were to fullest extent.

What bogans are going to Singapore to have a drinks weekend? It's probably quadruple the cost of drinking in Bangkok or Phuket.

Drunken Aussies on a low-cost flight? Groundbreaking.

hz747300 wrote:

What bogans are going to Singapore to have a drinks weekend? It's probably quadruple the cost of drinking in Bangkok or Phuket.

Maybe they were connecting in SIN to Bangkok or Phuket??

Source: https://www.9news.com.au/2019/01/22/06/ ... gold-coast

Pax were saying he was drinking at the bar before he boarded the flight. One commercial news bulletin in Sydney sensationalised the event by making it their headline news item. Then an aviation spokesperson came on and said it cost upwards of 50K AUD to divert etc and no costs would be recovered. No charges were laid. IMHO this is all sending the wrong message.

My thought is that this man would not have been allowed to board on certain other airlines as per a strict(er) policy, and this would never have occurred. How would I feel if I found myself on one of these unfortunate flights? I don’t think it would be over the top scary, I would just get as far away from the commotion as possible. Angry at the inconvenience. That is where the adrenaline would be coming from.

It seemed it was a light load on that flight. You would hope the FA training would help but I don’t think the female FA was helping all that much in this instance.

From the article:

“Passengers on a flight that was grounded when a dramatic brawl broke out said the instigator was drunk and aggressive before he boarded.

The flight from the Gold Coast to Singapore made an emergency landing in Sydney so the man could be arrested yesterday.

Airline Scoot said the passenger "appeared normal" during boarding and takeoff, but travellers have another story.

The guy was getting quite drunk at the bar, and we were watching him just throw them down," one said.

vhtje wrote:

Bogans.

But - we need to have a debate around the question of if airline travel has become too cheap. When people are flying from London to Eastern Europe, or from Queensland to Asia, expressly for drunken weekends, I think we have a problem. I am not just referring to the undesirable social behaviours, I am referring to the environmental impact of the increase in the number of flights. And of the welfare of the staff who work for the airlines - are they being paid enough? Are the airlines being allowed to exploit their staff too much?

Where is the line between acceptable cost and too cheap? Have we crossed that line?

Great question! I think we are definitely on that line already. Flying has never been so cheap, so safe, and with so much choice. It comes at a cost. Crowded airports and crowded skies. It is worthy of its own discussion.

An earlier thread has the original longer video.

https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1413633

hz747300 wrote:

What can they really do though? Why Sydney over Brisbane--just curious. I hope they're fully punished with jail time and their lives ruined.

Sending ppl to jail as punishment is an option but will not help the society to improve. Because if one is sent, another can do the same.. it's a matter of risk vs benefit for illegal behaviours.
Jail should be used to reeducate people to the benefits of a legal life. At the same time his background should be analysed to improve the society he leaves in.

A passenger on an airplane shouldn't be intoxicated by alcohol to a level where they would be well over the limit to operate a motor vehicle. If there is an emergency, especially at takeoff and landing, their judgment may be so impaired to put themselves and other pax at risk in an evacuation.

Although the numbers of pax who are drunk troublemakers is very tiny to the overall numbers of those flying, due to social media, everyone having a phone with a camera and video recording ability, we know more often the problems from intoxicated passengers. Of course, it is very difficult to keep intoxicated passengers from flying. Airlines don't want the expense, ground staff isn't trained like for example a police officer to determine if a person is intoxicated, they don't want to be the 'bad guys', get into hassles or face violence from telling a person they cannot fly due to their intoxication. Intoxication compounds the several negative issues from cheap flights that may trigger conflicts.

I do agree that intoxicated pax should be kept off flights as much as possible mainly for the safety of all passengers and an airlines risk of liability. Appropriate criminal and civil penalties, having to pay for diversions and staff time dealing with them, bans from flying their or any airline for periods of time, all must be assessed when they cause problems. Airlines that serve locations with reputations for high rates of potential intoxicated passengers may have consider screening of pax with cooperation of local law enforcement on the most likely flights to keep off intoxicated persons as well as train staff to deal with them better, adjust fares to discourage potential troublemakers.

vahancrazy wrote:

hz747300 wrote:

What can they really do though? Why Sydney over Brisbane--just curious. I hope they're fully punished with jail time and their lives ruined.

Sending ppl to jail as punishment is an option but will not help the society to improve. Because if one is sent, another can do the same.. it's a matter of risk vs benefit for illegal behaviours.
Jail should be used to reeducate people to the benefits of a legal life. At the same time his background should be analysed to improve the society he leaves in.

what an idealist! no reeducation without punishment!!! couple of months in jail or social works and then the airlines should charge them the cost for rerouting, and of course be banned for let's say 25 years from flying.

Here's a radical thought; compulsory insurance for every passenger.

If I am ill, and the plane diverts, I am covered for medical treatment, and the airline is covered for it's costs.

If I am drunk and the plane diverts, I get legal assistance on my way to jail, and the airline is covered for it's costs.
And the next time I fly, my air ticket will be just as cheap as everybody else's, but the insurance will cost me an arm & a leg.

That should be a sobering thought.

Noshow wrote:

What can be done?
-Stop selling any alcohol on board
-don't permit any alcohol as carry on
-breathalize "problem" passengers before boarding
-blacklist any rowdies for any airline travel

My understanding is that you are not allowed to consume any alcohol other than what's provided (complementary or for a fee) by the airline; at least in Europe and/or US.
Can anyone confirm?

vhtje wrote:

Where is the line between acceptable cost and too cheap? Have we crossed that line?

Doesn't matter. Have you heard of "Cashed-up Bogans"?

My understanding is that you are not allowed to consume any alcohol other than what's provided (complementary or for a fee) by the airline; at least in Europe and/or US.
Can anyone confirm?

There are bars in ever airport I've ever been to here in the US, at least every reasonably sized one, so yes, you can liquor up before boarding the plane. The issue really is that the servers at the terminal restaurants and bars should cut people off at some point but they often don't. Leaving Vegas once on America West, I distinctly recall seeing the bleary eyed drunks lining up at the gate, and many didn't arrive that way from the casinos! Let's just say that the bartender was busy in the half hour before the flight left. It was a night flight and there were no problems, mainly because most people collapsed and blacked out as soon as the plane took off, but the point remains.

Aptivaboy wrote:

My understanding is that you are not allowed to consume any alcohol other than what's provided (complementary or for a fee) by the airline; at least in Europe and/or US.
Can anyone confirm?

There are bars in ever airport I've ever been to here in the US, at least every reasonably sized one, so yes, you can liquor up before boarding the plane. The issue really is that the servers at the terminal restaurants and bars should cut people off at some point but they often don't. Leaving Vegas once on America West, I distinctly recall seeing the bleary eyed drunks lining up at the gate, and many didn't arrive that way from the casinos! Let's just say that the bartender was busy in the half hour before the flight left. It was a night flight and there were no problems, mainly because most people collapsed and blacked out as soon as the plane took off, but the point remains.

Yeah, I know and get that.

If you go back to my original quote, I did highlight don't permit any alcohol as carry on, meaning alcohol brought on-board (and consumed on-board) by the pax. If the pax wants to get loaded at home or a bar before flying, there is nothing the airline can do; they can only prevent/limit the alcohol they serve.

So, question remains: can a passenger consume, on board an aircraft, alcohol he/she brought in? My understanding was that it was illegal (at least in Europe and/or US), that you were only allowed to consume alcohol serves by the flight attendants.

Can anyone confirm/deny?

vhtje wrote:

Bogans.

But - we need to have a debate around the question of if airline travel has become too cheap. When people are flying from London to Eastern Europe, or from Queensland to Asia, expressly for drunken weekends, I think we have a problem. I am not just referring to the undesirable social behaviours, I am referring to the environmental impact of the increase in the number of flights. And of the welfare of the staff who work for the airlines - are they being paid enough? Are the airlines being allowed to exploit their staff too much?

Where is the line between acceptable cost and too cheap? Have we crossed that line?

Yeah we should restrict air travel to land-owning men and their families.

FCAFLYBOY wrote:

I’m assuming this is a Scoot flight? CN anyone confirm from the video?

I’m quite surprised at the Cabin Crew response, not exactly taking charge, more spectating. Having done the job myself I’m putting that down to youth and inexperience perhaps, they look very young. Not a criticism , it’s a startling situation at 35,000ft!

Shame on the pax fighting though....


https://news.sky.com/video/vertical-vid ... 4-11614812

Based on the short video, I cant see alot the crew could have done in that short amount of time. Me personally, and I am not a flight attendant, would be to use a stern voice with authority to stop the punches. Now, had they actually gotten between them, there is a good chance a flying fist would have hit them.

In their defense, they did appear to try and stop it. I think all flight crews should have tasers now. LOL!!! I can imagine planes arriving and crews going to get new taser cartridges after each flight! LOL!

Kikko19 wrote:

vahancrazy wrote:

hz747300 wrote:

What can they really do though? Why Sydney over Brisbane--just curious. I hope they're fully punished with jail time and their lives ruined.

Sending ppl to jail as punishment is an option but will not help the society to improve. Because if one is sent, another can do the same.. it's a matter of risk vs benefit for illegal behaviours.
Jail should be used to reeducate people to the benefits of a legal life. At the same time his background should be analysed to improve the society he leaves in.

what an idealist! no reeducation without punishment!!! couple of months in jail or social works and then the airlines should charge them the cost for rerouting, and of course be banned for let's say 25 years from flying.

Social works and payment are totally fair and I agree with you. I think those influence much more than the jail.

salttee wrote:

vhtje wrote:

But - we need to have a debate around the question of if airline travel has become too cheap. When people are flying from London to Eastern Europe, or from Queensland to Asia, expressly for drunken weekends, I think we have a problem. I am not just referring to the undesirable social behaviours, I am referring to the environmental impact of the increase in the number of flights. And of the welfare of the staff who work for the airlines - are they being paid enough? Are the airlines being allowed to exploit their staff too much?

Where is the line between acceptable cost and too cheap? Have we crossed that line?

That's the 21st century version of Lord Wellington’s lament:

“[Railroads will] only encourage the common people to move about needlessly.”

Agree whole-heartedly...and admire the precision, laser-guided and impactful response...kudos good Sir...


Faro

WayexTDI wrote:

Aptivaboy wrote:

My understanding is that you are not allowed to consume any alcohol other than what's provided (complementary or for a fee) by the airline; at least in Europe and/or US.
Can anyone confirm?

There are bars in ever airport I've ever been to here in the US, at least every reasonably sized one, so yes, you can liquor up before boarding the plane. The issue really is that the servers at the terminal restaurants and bars should cut people off at some point but they often don't. Leaving Vegas once on America West, I distinctly recall seeing the bleary eyed drunks lining up at the gate, and many didn't arrive that way from the casinos! Let's just say that the bartender was busy in the half hour before the flight left. It was a night flight and there were no problems, mainly because most people collapsed and blacked out as soon as the plane took off, but the point remains.

Yeah, I know and get that.

If you go back to my original quote, I did highlight don't permit any alcohol as carry on, meaning alcohol brought on-board (and consumed on-board) by the pax. If the pax wants to get loaded at home or a bar before flying, there is nothing the airline can do; they can only prevent/limit the alcohol they serve.

So, question remains: can a passenger consume, on board an aircraft, alcohol he/she brought in? My understanding was that it was illegal (at least in Europe and/or US), that you were only allowed to consume alcohol serves by the flight attendants.

Can anyone confirm/deny?

I've witnessed here in the US where pax have brought their own booze on the flight. I had a guy in the aisle across from me pouring out of what looked like a pint bottle of Crown Royal, which come in plastic. One can get pretty snockered on a pint on a 3 hour flight.

Kikko19 wrote:

vahancrazy wrote:

hz747300 wrote:

What can they really do though? Why Sydney over Brisbane--just curious. I hope they're fully punished with jail time and their lives ruined.

Sending ppl to jail as punishment is an option but will not help the society to improve. Because if one is sent, another can do the same.. it's a matter of risk vs benefit for illegal behaviours.
Jail should be used to reeducate people to the benefits of a legal life. At the same time his background should be analysed to improve the society he leaves in.

what an idealist! no reeducation without punishment!!! couple of months in jail or social works and then the airlines should charge them the cost for rerouting, and of course be banned for let's say 25 years from flying.

So ruining someone's life over an incident like this is the right thing to do? If you send someone to jail for 2-3-4 months that's going to cause 99% of people to lose their job, most likely their home, and possibly their children, cars, etc. Is that really a good punishment when nobody was actually harmed? Let the passengers sue them if they want. Fines yes, but 100,000? Get real.

Race to the bottom continues.

EvanWSFO wrote:

WayexTDI wrote:

Aptivaboy wrote:

There are bars in ever airport I've ever been to here in the US, at least every reasonably sized one, so yes, you can liquor up before boarding the plane. The issue really is that the servers at the terminal restaurants and bars should cut people off at some point but they often don't. Leaving Vegas once on America West, I distinctly recall seeing the bleary eyed drunks lining up at the gate, and many didn't arrive that way from the casinos! Let's just say that the bartender was busy in the half hour before the flight left. It was a night flight and there were no problems, mainly because most people collapsed and blacked out as soon as the plane took off, but the point remains.

Yeah, I know and get that.

If you go back to my original quote, I did highlight don't permit any alcohol as carry on, meaning alcohol brought on-board (and consumed on-board) by the pax. If the pax wants to get loaded at home or a bar before flying, there is nothing the airline can do; they can only prevent/limit the alcohol they serve.

So, question remains: can a passenger consume, on board an aircraft, alcohol he/she brought in? My understanding was that it was illegal (at least in Europe and/or US), that you were only allowed to consume alcohol serves by the flight attendants.

Can anyone confirm/deny?

I've witnessed here in the US where pax have brought their own booze on the flight. I had a guy in the aisle across from me pouring out of what looked like a pint bottle of Crown Royal, which come in plastic. One can get pretty snockered on a pint on a 3 hour flight.

Well, in the US, it's illegal.

I finally found it. 14.CFR.135.121 (Alcohol Beverages):

(a) No person may drink any alcoholic beverage aboard an aircraft unless the certificate holder operating the aircraft has served that beverage.

(b) No certificate holder may serve any alcoholic beverage to any person aboard its aircraft if that person appears to be intoxicated.

(c) No certificate holder may allow any person to board any of its aircraft if that person appears to be intoxicated.

So, in the US:
- no, one cannot bring and drink his/her own alcohol;
- yes, a crew may (actually, must) prevent a drunk person from boarding.

Can someone answer for other areas?

vhtje wrote:

Bogans.

But - we need to have a debate around the question of if airline travel has become too cheap. When people are flying from London to Eastern Europe, or from Queensland to Asia, expressly for drunken weekends, I think we have a problem. I am not just referring to the undesirable social behaviours, I am referring to the environmental impact of the increase in the number of flights. And of the welfare of the staff who work for the airlines - are they being paid enough? Are the airlines being allowed to exploit their staff too much?

Where is the line between acceptable cost and too cheap? Have we crossed that line?

That's ridiculous - you're saying that they should make flights more expensive so that the majority of people can't afford to fly, just because of the occasional yob. Maybe we should make the bus and metro systems more expensive as well in order to cut down on bad behavior there.

EvanWSFO wrote:

WayexTDI wrote:

Aptivaboy wrote:

There are bars in ever airport I've ever been to here in the US, at least every reasonably sized one, so yes, you can liquor up before boarding the plane. The issue really is that the servers at the terminal restaurants and bars should cut people off at some point but they often don't. Leaving Vegas once on America West, I distinctly recall seeing the bleary eyed drunks lining up at the gate, and many didn't arrive that way from the casinos! Let's just say that the bartender was busy in the half hour before the flight left. It was a night flight and there were no problems, mainly because most people collapsed and blacked out as soon as the plane took off, but the point remains.

Yeah, I know and get that.

If you go back to my original quote, I did highlight don't permit any alcohol as carry on, meaning alcohol brought on-board (and consumed on-board) by the pax. If the pax wants to get loaded at home or a bar before flying, there is nothing the airline can do; they can only prevent/limit the alcohol they serve.

So, question remains: can a passenger consume, on board an aircraft, alcohol he/she brought in? My understanding was that it was illegal (at least in Europe and/or US), that you were only allowed to consume alcohol serves by the flight attendants.

Can anyone confirm/deny?

I've witnessed here in the US where pax have brought their own booze on the flight. I had a guy in the aisle across from me pouring out of what looked like a pint bottle of Crown Royal, which come in plastic. One can get pretty snockered on a pint on a 3 hour flight.

Interesting. How did this person made it through TSA with a pint size bottle full of fluid? God forbid any of my bottles are over 3oz. or I'll get the major reprimand from the three striper agent.

vahancrazy wrote:

hz747300 wrote:

What can they really do though? Why Sydney over Brisbane--just curious. I hope they're fully punished with jail time and their lives ruined.

Sending ppl to jail as punishment is an option but will not help the society to improve. Because if one is sent, another can do the same.. it's a matter of risk vs benefit for illegal behaviours.
Jail should be used to reeducate people to the benefits of a legal life. At the same time his background should be analysed to improve the society he leaves in.

jail doesn't do that tho and never has

Those men were big - some clearly drunk. The FA's couldn't have done anything successful with physical restraint of the offenders.

Having traveled on Scoot several times, the singular lasting impression I have of the FA's is that they are nothing but unfriendly trash collectors.

WayexTDI wrote:

Aptivaboy wrote:

My understanding is that you are not allowed to consume any alcohol other than what's provided (complementary or for a fee) by the airline; at least in Europe and/or US.
Can anyone confirm?

There are bars in ever airport I've ever been to here in the US, at least every reasonably sized one, so yes, you can liquor up before boarding the plane. The issue really is that the servers at the terminal restaurants and bars should cut people off at some point but they often don't. Leaving Vegas once on America West, I distinctly recall seeing the bleary eyed drunks lining up at the gate, and many didn't arrive that way from the casinos! Let's just say that the bartender was busy in the half hour before the flight left. It was a night flight and there were no problems, mainly because most people collapsed and blacked out as soon as the plane took off, but the point remains.

Yeah, I know and get that.

If you go back to my original quote, I did highlight don't permit any alcohol as carry on, meaning alcohol brought on-board (and consumed on-board) by the pax. If the pax wants to get loaded at home or a bar before flying, there is nothing the airline can do; they can only prevent/limit the alcohol they serve.

So, question remains: can a passenger consume, on board an aircraft, alcohol he/she brought in? My understanding was that it was illegal (at least in Europe and/or US), that you were only allowed to consume alcohol serves by the flight attendants.

Can anyone confirm/deny?

Airlines can't deny boarding to people who are already drunk? I'm pretty sure I've seen cases (well, mostly youtube videos) of people denied boarding. Doesn't make sense to give airlines the power to stop people from bringing their own booze on board and also to stop serving people booze while on board, but not give them the power to stop someone drunk from boarding.

Increasingly narrow, tight economy class cabins with people packed like sardines + super cheap fares + drunk passengers is a recipe for more and more of these incidents. Add to that low paid sometimes under trained and understaffed young cabin crew.

alan3 wrote:

WayexTDI wrote:

Aptivaboy wrote:

There are bars in ever airport I've ever been to here in the US, at least every reasonably sized one, so yes, you can liquor up before boarding the plane. The issue really is that the servers at the terminal restaurants and bars should cut people off at some point but they often don't. Leaving Vegas once on America West, I distinctly recall seeing the bleary eyed drunks lining up at the gate, and many didn't arrive that way from the casinos! Let's just say that the bartender was busy in the half hour before the flight left. It was a night flight and there were no problems, mainly because most people collapsed and blacked out as soon as the plane took off, but the point remains.

Yeah, I know and get that.

If you go back to my original quote, I did highlight don't permit any alcohol as carry on, meaning alcohol brought on-board (and consumed on-board) by the pax. If the pax wants to get loaded at home or a bar before flying, there is nothing the airline can do; they can only prevent/limit the alcohol they serve.

So, question remains: can a passenger consume, on board an aircraft, alcohol he/she brought in? My understanding was that it was illegal (at least in Europe and/or US), that you were only allowed to consume alcohol serves by the flight attendants.

Can anyone confirm/deny?

Airlines can't deny boarding to people who are already drunk? I'm pretty sure I've seen cases (well, mostly youtube videos) of people denied boarding. Doesn't make sense to give airlines the power to stop people from bringing their own booze on board and also to stop serving people booze while on board, but not give them the power to stop someone drunk from boarding.

Increasingly narrow, tight economy class cabins with people packed like sardines + super cheap fares + drunk passengers is a recipe for more and more of these incidents. Add to that low paid sometimes under trained and understaffed young cabin crew.

See post #30 (viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1413729#p21034305)

vhtje wrote:

Bogans.

But - we need to have a debate around the question of if airline travel has become too cheap. When people are flying from London to Eastern Europe, or from Queensland to Asia, expressly for drunken weekends, I think we have a problem. I am not just referring to the undesirable social behaviours, I am referring to the environmental impact of the increase in the number of flights. And of the welfare of the staff who work for the airlines - are they being paid enough? Are the airlines being allowed to exploit their staff too much?

Where is the line between acceptable cost and too cheap? Have we crossed that line?

I fully agree with you. Something that was unreachable a couple of decades ago now is available to everyone. Just inspect what you expect (I know, I have opened a can of worms...).

vhtje wrote:

Bogans.

But - we need to have a debate around the question of if airline travel has become too cheap. When people are flying from London to Eastern Europe, or from Queensland to Asia, expressly for drunken weekends, I think we have a problem. I am not just referring to the undesirable social behaviours, I am referring to the environmental impact of the increase in the number of flights. And of the welfare of the staff who work for the airlines - are they being paid enough? Are the airlines being allowed to exploit their staff too much?

Where is the line between acceptable cost and too cheap? Have we crossed that line?

So .. how is this on topic again?

The windows on the 787 are amazing. The amount of lighting the videographer gets into the filming really showcases what a magnificent job Boeing did. The camera probably wasn't the greatest and the motion inhibits a lot of clarity, but lighting saves the day and gives us this dramatic footage. Also the additional oxygenation provided by the 787 really let these two Aussie drunks give it their all. On the down side, I wonder if seat width had something to with the rage on display. Tell you what, it just might've been what triggered the whole thing, some poor mate trying to quaff his fifth Boilermaker and the git next to him keeps knocking into his elbow because there's no space! Every plane has its pros and cons people.

WayexTDI wrote:

EvanWSFO wrote:

WayexTDI wrote:

Yeah, I know and get that.

If you go back to my original quote, I did highlight don't permit any alcohol as carry on, meaning alcohol brought on-board (and consumed on-board) by the pax. If the pax wants to get loaded at home or a bar before flying, there is nothing the airline can do; they can only prevent/limit the alcohol they serve.

So, question remains: can a passenger consume, on board an aircraft, alcohol he/she brought in? My understanding was that it was illegal (at least in Europe and/or US), that you were only allowed to consume alcohol serves by the flight attendants.

Can anyone confirm/deny?

I've witnessed here in the US where pax have brought their own booze on the flight. I had a guy in the aisle across from me pouring out of what looked like a pint bottle of Crown Royal, which come in plastic. One can get pretty snockered on a pint on a 3 hour flight.

Well, in the US, it's illegal.

I finally found it. 14.CFR.135.121 (Alcohol Beverages):

(a) No person may drink any alcoholic beverage aboard an aircraft unless the certificate holder operating the aircraft has served that beverage.

(b) No certificate holder may serve any alcoholic beverage to any person aboard its aircraft if that person appears to be intoxicated.

(c) No certificate holder may allow any person to board any of its aircraft if that person appears to be intoxicated.

So, in the US:
- no, one cannot bring and drink his/her own alcohol;
- yes, a crew may (actually, must) prevent a drunk person from boarding.

Can someone answer for other areas?

Don't know how the bottle got onboard the plane, but it obviously happens. Probably more often than we know. As a teenager I used to sneak bottles into high school football games in my sock. It was quite uncomfortable, but it worked. If people don't get patted down, a plastic bottle could go unnoticed.

peterinlisbon wrote:

vhtje wrote:

Bogans.

But - we need to have a debate around the question of if airline travel has become too cheap. When people are flying from London to Eastern Europe, or from Queensland to Asia, expressly for drunken weekends, I think we have a problem. I am not just referring to the undesirable social behaviours, I am referring to the environmental impact of the increase in the number of flights. And of the welfare of the staff who work for the airlines - are they being paid enough? Are the airlines being allowed to exploit their staff too much?

Where is the line between acceptable cost and too cheap? Have we crossed that line?

That's ridiculous - you're saying that they should make flights more expensive so that the majority of people can't afford to fly, just because of the occasional yob. Maybe we should make the bus and metro systems more expensive as well in order to cut down on bad behavior there.

No. That isn’t what I wrote. Please do not put words in my fingertips.

I am asking the question: has the democratisation of air travel, through the reduction of the air fares in real terms, led to undesirable social and environmental outcomes, and a reduction in corporate responsibility by airline companies? And where is that line of ‘too far’?

Yes, I called the person in the video a bogan, because their behaviour, as captured by the camera, is atrocious. But I draw no conclusion about their economic circumstance: for all I know they are worth multiple times my consequence.

Do not lash out at me with an absurd and completely invalid analogy because my question is too nuanced for you to comprehend.

DeutchLund wrote:

Kikko19 wrote:

vahancrazy wrote:

Sending ppl to jail as punishment is an option but will not help the society to improve. Because if one is sent, another can do the same.. it's a matter of risk vs benefit for illegal behaviours.
Jail should be used to reeducate people to the benefits of a legal life. At the same time his background should be analysed to improve the society he leaves in.

what an idealist! no reeducation without punishment!!! couple of months in jail or social works and then the airlines should charge them the cost for rerouting, and of course be banned for let's say 25 years from flying.

So ruining someone's life over an incident like this is the right thing to do? If you send someone to jail for 2-3-4 months that's going to cause 99% of people to lose their job, most likely their home, and possibly their children, cars, etc. Is that really a good punishment when nobody was actually harmed? Let the passengers sue them if they want. Fines yes, but 100,000? Get real.

Those guys fighting had a choice, so of course they are due the consequences of that choice. If that means losing everything that is important to you, so be it. I don't get into fistfights on flights, I'm sure you don't either. Could we? Sure, but we don't. They should be thankful it didn't happen and their were arrested in Singapore, where jail would be years not months.

And if they are remorseful, they would spend the rest of their lives dedicated to living clean, helping others, and making the world a better place by sharing their story and the impact it had on them.

hz747300 wrote:

DeutchLund wrote:

Kikko19 wrote:

what an idealist! no reeducation without punishment!!! couple of months in jail or social works and then the airlines should charge them the cost for rerouting, and of course be banned for let's say 25 years from flying.

So ruining someone's life over an incident like this is the right thing to do? If you send someone to jail for 2-3-4 months that's going to cause 99% of people to lose their job, most likely their home, and possibly their children, cars, etc. Is that really a good punishment when nobody was actually harmed? Let the passengers sue them if they want. Fines yes, but 100,000? Get real.

Those guys fighting had a choice, so of course they are due the consequences of that choice. If that means losing everything that is important to you, so be it. I don't get into fistfights on flights, I'm sure you don't either. Could we? Sure, but we don't. They should be thankful it didn't happen and their were arrested in Singapore, where jail would be years not months.

And if they are remorseful, they would spend the rest of their lives dedicated to living clean, helping others, and making the world a better place by sharing their story and the impact it had on them.

Get into a fight one time and you should lose the right to live in society. Sounds reasonable.

Thank goodness we don't live in your world.

EvanWSFO wrote:

WayexTDI wrote:

EvanWSFO wrote:

I've witnessed here in the US where pax have brought their own booze on the flight. I had a guy in the aisle across from me pouring out of what looked like a pint bottle of Crown Royal, which come in plastic. One can get pretty snockered on a pint on a 3 hour flight.

Well, in the US, it's illegal.

I finally found it. 14.CFR.135.121 (Alcohol Beverages):

(a) No person may drink any alcoholic beverage aboard an aircraft unless the certificate holder operating the aircraft has served that beverage.

(b) No certificate holder may serve any alcoholic beverage to any person aboard its aircraft if that person appears to be intoxicated.

(c) No certificate holder may allow any person to board any of its aircraft if that person appears to be intoxicated.

So, in the US:
- no, one cannot bring and drink his/her own alcohol;
- yes, a crew may (actually, must) prevent a drunk person from boarding.

Can someone answer for other areas?

Don't know how the bottle got onboard the plane, but it obviously happens. Probably more often than we know. As a teenager I used to sneak bottles into high school football games in my sock. It was quite uncomfortable, but it worked. If people don't get patted down, a plastic bottle could go unnoticed.

Remember: doing something illegal usually has no consequence... until you get caught.

hz747300 wrote:

I hope they're fully punished with jail time and their lives ruined.

Saudi Arabia is a model for the world to follow.

SheikhDjibouti wrote:

Here's a radical thought; compulsory insurance for every passenger.

If I am ill, and the plane diverts, I am covered for medical treatment, and the airline is covered for it's costs.

If I am drunk and the plane diverts, I get legal assistance on my way to jail, and the airline is covered for it's costs.
And the next time I fly, my air ticket will be just as cheap as everybody else's, but the insurance will cost me an arm & a leg.

That should be a sobering thought.

Airlines have insurance and factor that into ticket prices
You are on a roll posting gibberish on the forum dozens of times just today

rule number one: don't pick up a fight in a plane, with a policeman or a politician especially now that with video recording mobile devices your idiocy will spread worldwide. so next time pick-up a bar dark retro in a village where nobody cares.

DeutchLund wrote:

hz747300 wrote:

DeutchLund wrote:

So ruining someone's life over an incident like this is the right thing to do? If you send someone to jail for 2-3-4 months that's going to cause 99% of people to lose their job, most likely their home, and possibly their children, cars, etc. Is that really a good punishment when nobody was actually harmed? Let the passengers sue them if they want. Fines yes, but 100,000? Get real.

Those guys fighting had a choice, so of course they are due the consequences of that choice. If that means losing everything that is important to you, so be it. I don't get into fistfights on flights, I'm sure you don't either. Could we? Sure, but we don't. They should be thankful it didn't happen and their were arrested in Singapore, where jail would be years not months.

And if they are remorseful, they would spend the rest of their lives dedicated to living clean, helping others, and making the world a better place by sharing their story and the impact it had on them.

Get into a fight one time and you should lose the right to live in society. Sounds reasonable.

Thank goodness we don't live in your world.

What's your solution? Let some morons wreck 200+ peoples trip and get off scot free?

Next time you're headed to a meeting and I park on the freeway blocking traffic, let's see how you react. I'm sure your concern for my wellbeing will be paramount.

Deleted my senseless rant.

Antarius wrote:

What's your solution? Let some morons wreck 200+ peoples trip and get off scot free?

Next time you're headed to a meeting and I park on the freeway blocking traffic, let's see how you react. I'm sure your concern for my wellbeing will be paramount.

You make a good point. Perhaps people pull this bullshit because they always hear about this kind of stuff happening, but never hear about any of the aggressors being held responsible.

Society in general - religion, sex, nationality, age and all that nonsense aside - seems to have lost its sense of individual accountability. Take them to the gallos and kill them? No. Make them pay for the damage they've caused, absolutely. A few days in a jail cell would be enough time to think about what they've done, and figure out if those drinks were worth it or not.