Someone83
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SAS to get A321LR

Wed Jan 23, 2019 1:22 pm

SAS has signed an agreement with ALC for leasing 3 A321LR. First will be delivered during first half of 2020

https://www.sasgroup.net/en/sas-expands ... ong-range/

SAS hasn't said anything about configuration, or which routes (other than mention all possible destinations......)
 
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Channex757
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Re: SAS to get A321LR

Wed Jan 23, 2019 2:11 pm

Scandinavia to the Canaries. That's a routing that immediately comes to mind; offering full payload from northern departure points. Places like Hurghada and maybe even as far out as the Gulf could also be served.
 
Someone83
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Re: SAS to get A321LR

Wed Jan 23, 2019 2:14 pm

[twoid][/twoid]
Channex757 wrote:
Scandinavia to the Canaries. That's a routing that immediately comes to mind; offering full payload from northern departure points. Places like Hurghada and maybe even as far out as the Gulf could also be served.


The Canaries is already covered by their 737 and A32x fleet.

These aircraft will most likely have a proper business class seats (probably similar to AerLingus) and will not be used to low yield turist routes such as to the canaries
 
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Channex757
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Re: SAS to get A321LR

Wed Jan 23, 2019 2:18 pm

I am thinking along the lines of high density seating with a Lufthansa-BA-AF type convertible front section. SK does not have the luxury of trying to play to the tablecloth and chintz image of flying any more when Norwegian and others are eating their lunch. They need aircraft that are workhorses in highly competitive markets.
 
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SASViking
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Re: SAS to get A321LR

Wed Jan 23, 2019 2:23 pm

Channex757 wrote:
Scandinavia to the Canaries. That's a routing that immediately comes to mind; offering full payload from northern departure points. Places like Hurghada and maybe even as far out as the Gulf could also be served.

They will with 99.9% certainty only be used on flights to the US and a small chance on flights to India. The current A320s and 737s already do flights to the Canaries just fine already on both scheduled and charter flights. Also flying holiday flights in general especially to Africa and the Middle East isn't SAS' strong point
Types flown: A319, A320, A32N, A321, A332, A333, A343, AT43, AT75, AT76, B717, B732, B735, B736, B737, B738, B752, B753, CRJ9, DC10, DH4D, DHC3, E135, E145, E175, E190, E195, F100, MD11, MD81, MD82, MD87, RJ1H
 
Someone83
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Re: SAS to get A321LR

Wed Jan 23, 2019 2:28 pm

Channex757 wrote:
I am thinking along the lines of high density seating with a Lufthansa-BA-AF type convertible front section. SK does not have the luxury of trying to play to the tablecloth and chintz image of flying any more when Norwegian and others are eating their lunch. They need aircraft that are workhorses in highly competitive markets.


They do not need an «LR» for this........

So their business class will be in line with the offering in their A330/A340s, except they will probably need another type of seats that fit the A321
 
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keesje
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Re: SAS to get A321LR

Wed Jan 23, 2019 2:35 pm

Not suprizingly IMO. They used 737s for the same job. https://www.privatair.com/en/aircraft/boeing-737-700-sas-20c60y. SAS serves 3 smallish capitals from a single hub(CPH) . There is probably (business) traffic from Oslo and Stockholm to some big city's in the US and Asia that tank, if you are offering them with connection flights only.

E.g. - ARN-IAD:
- DL/KL & LH-UA fly them directly from the US.
- SAS (and a dozens others) with a stop
- SAS can't fill an A330 with feed and it hurts the CPH flights.
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oslmgm
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Re: SAS to get A321LR

Wed Jan 23, 2019 2:41 pm

"(...) existing destinations from smaller airports" - I'm wondering if they are willing to weaken their hubs at OSL, ARN and CPH.

How about these:
BGO-EWR, 3,043 nm
SVG-EWR, 3,078 nm
TRD-EWR, 3,145 nm
TOS-EWR, 3,210 nm

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=BGO-EWR%0D ... =wls&DU=nm


Image
 
346fetish
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Re: SAS to get A321LR

Wed Jan 23, 2019 2:53 pm

A321LR guesses:
ARN-YYZ
CPH-YUL (summer seasonal)
CPH-BOS (down gauged)
OSL-IAD
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zkojq
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Re: SAS to get A321LR

Wed Jan 23, 2019 3:10 pm

Congratulations to SAS.

Hopefully we will see CPH-YYZ, CPH-BOS and OSL-IAD opened with them. CPH-DEL would be interesting.

oslmgm wrote:
TOS-EWR, 3,210 nm

Now that would be a cool route!
First to fly the 787-9
 
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AAR
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Re: SAS to get A321LR

Wed Jan 23, 2019 3:15 pm

SAS will use them on thinner routes and the Business class will be as British Airways on their A321 - 1 + 2 first row, 2 + 1 second row same Business class as A330 and A340, more interesting where will they place the crew rest ?
Possible routes - Oslo to Washington DC and Toronto, Aarhus/Gothenburg/Bergen/Stavanger to NYC/EWR as afternoon plane to US and midnite from NYC to Scandinavia... Middle East / India will come in few years after
 
whywhyzee
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Re: SAS to get A321LR

Wed Jan 23, 2019 3:15 pm

I'd love to see ARN or OSL to YYZ, with AC running the 77W on CPH-YYZ during the high season and an A333 during the low, not much need for SAS there.
 
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SASViking
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Re: SAS to get A321LR

Wed Jan 23, 2019 3:19 pm

zkojq wrote:
Congratulations to SAS.

Hopefully we will see CPH-YYZ, CPH-BOS and OSL-IAD opened with them. CPH-DEL would be interesting.

oslmgm wrote:
TOS-EWR, 3,210 nm

Now that would be a cool route!

SAS already codeshares with AC on CPH-YYZ and with 4x weekly A330-300 during winter and a daily 450-seater 777-300ER during summer so I doubt that's gonna happen. An all-year CPH-BOS with A321 makes sence instead of their current summer-seasonal A330
Types flown: A319, A320, A32N, A321, A332, A333, A343, AT43, AT75, AT76, B717, B732, B735, B736, B737, B738, B752, B753, CRJ9, DC10, DH4D, DHC3, E135, E145, E175, E190, E195, F100, MD11, MD81, MD82, MD87, RJ1H
 
kanye
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Re: SAS to get A321LR

Wed Jan 23, 2019 3:22 pm

I hope they will use real Business class seats in the front. Considering how premium Heavy their long haul fleet is i find it very likely.
 
klm617
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Re: SAS to get A321LR

Wed Jan 23, 2019 3:26 pm

Dare I say maybe DTW-CPH 4 weekly.
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AAR
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Re: SAS to get A321LR

Wed Jan 23, 2019 3:33 pm

SAS fly to Star hubs... and ARN is not interesting as long as they got taxes ... Boston is special because there are lots of business class travel in the biotech industry
 
PlymSpotter
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Re: SAS to get A321LR

Wed Jan 23, 2019 3:37 pm

BOS must be a leading contender. They previously operated PrivatAir's B737 on this route, then upgauged to a seasonal A330.

The A321LR would be a good fit for this route.
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AAR
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Re: SAS to get A321LR

Wed Jan 23, 2019 3:43 pm

A321LR in the winter - A330 in the summer... I expect SAS to order more A321LR soon but could get 3 planes fast thru ALC
 
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chrisnh
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Re: SAS to get A321LR

Wed Jan 23, 2019 3:44 pm

PlymSpotter wrote:
BOS must be a leading contender. They previously operated PrivatAir's B737 on this route, then upgauged to a seasonal A330.

The A321LR would be a good fit for this route.


100% agreed.
 
whywhyzee
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Re: SAS to get A321LR

Wed Jan 23, 2019 3:58 pm

SASViking wrote:
zkojq wrote:
Congratulations to SAS.

Hopefully we will see CPH-YYZ, CPH-BOS and OSL-IAD opened with them. CPH-DEL would be interesting.

oslmgm wrote:
TOS-EWR, 3,210 nm

Now that would be a cool route!

SAS already codeshares with AC on CPH-YYZ and with 4x weekly A330-300 during winter and a daily 450-seater 777-300ER during summer so I doubt that's gonna happen. An all-year CPH-BOS with A321 makes sence instead of their current summer-seasonal A330


Slight correction, it's a 400 seat 77W for CPH from YYZ. Bridge season will be a 789.
 
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gatibosgru
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Re: SAS to get A321LR

Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:01 pm

Makes sense for BOS
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voodoo
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Re: SAS to get A321LR

Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:15 pm

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chrisljo
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Re: SAS to get A321LR

Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:19 pm

Been thinking about this a while. These planes can likely do a BLL-OSL-EWR or OSL-CPH-BOS rotation in 24h, it will be interesting se if these will do an intra-scandicanian segment between the long haul flights.
 
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SASViking
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Re: SAS to get A321LR

Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:31 pm

According to Danish newspaper "Børsen", behind a paywall, the A321LRs will feature both SAS Business, SAS Plus and SAS Go onboard
Types flown: A319, A320, A32N, A321, A332, A333, A343, AT43, AT75, AT76, B717, B732, B735, B736, B737, B738, B752, B753, CRJ9, DC10, DH4D, DHC3, E135, E145, E175, E190, E195, F100, MD11, MD81, MD82, MD87, RJ1H
 
oldannyboy
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Re: SAS to get A321LR

Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:36 pm

Channex757 wrote:
Scandinavia to the Canaries. That's a routing that immediately comes to mind; offering full payload from northern departure points. Places like Hurghada and maybe even as far out as the Gulf could also be served.


Never. SAS don't invest $$$ in new jets for the least important routes in their system, i.e. leisure sun routes. Besides, the Canaries are already being served from Scandinavia on the A321.
 
PHLspecial
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Re: SAS to get A321LR

Wed Jan 23, 2019 5:09 pm

klm617 wrote:
Dare I say maybe DTW-CPH 4 weekly.


Screw it, PHL-ARN 4 weekly summer season only!

Out of seriousness I think SAS would experiment with a couple East coast airports.
 
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AAR
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Re: SAS to get A321LR

Wed Jan 23, 2019 6:45 pm

SAS needs to change strategy in the old days norwegian and swedes needed to fly via CPH after the deregulated market in Europe more direct routes have been established. Which has cost SAS a lot of passengers to KLM which has around 15 routes from Scandinavia to AMS or 4mill passengers annual, therefore they can now try to get some of them back there are flying via AMS or FRA or CDG.. KLM and LH are both at BLL and KLM is also at AAL therefore SAS has decided to start up from AAR.
The A321LR will be used to reinforcement on routes like Newark or WashingtonDC. Toronto can be from Oslo because AC fly into CPH. SAS will target Star Hubs to make them feed into the flights.
Middle East or Asia or Africa will be in the future with more planes probably ordered in the near future...
 
YIMBY
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Re: SAS to get A321LR

Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:33 pm

SASViking wrote:
They will with 99.9% certainty only be used on flights to the US and a small chance on flights to India. The current A320s and 737s already do flights to the Canaries just fine already on both scheduled and charter flights. Also flying holiday flights in general especially to Africa and the Middle East isn't SAS' strong point


Agree, except Canada has a non-zero chance, too.

Good deal for SK, hopefully, and kind of test how it works and how the clients accept it.
 
iadadd
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Re: SAS to get A321LR

Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:03 pm

A little off topic, but why has SAS historically based a big chunk of long haul flying out of CPH ? Isn't Stockholm the largest metro area in Scandinavia, plus perhaps the most "prominent" city in the region ?
 
cityairline
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Re: SAS to get A321LR

Thu Jan 24, 2019 3:36 am

Unbelievable is has not been mentioned. I saw some statistics recently and GOT-EWR is by far the largets unserved route between Scandinavia and the US. GOT has a 2 million catchment area and is served by almost every major European carrier and also QR widebody. AAR/BLL/BGO/SVG are alot smaller markets in comparison and will not see a route to EWR in the first stage.
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SASViking
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Re: SAS to get A321LR

Thu Jan 24, 2019 4:38 am

iadadd wrote:
A little off topic, but why has SAS historically based a big chunk of long haul flying out of CPH ? Isn't Stockholm the largest metro area in Scandinavia, plus perhaps the most "prominent" city in the region ?


Stockholm city itself is bigger than Copenhagen, but what many people forget about CPH is that it also serves southern Sweden. ARN also used to be the big LH hub for SAS but that began to change in the 90's and especially when the Bridge across Øresund opened in 1999.

According to Swedavia (the operator of ARN) there is approx 3.85 million people within a 2 hour drive of ARN
(https://goo.gl/images/CT7d35)

While according to CPH 4.1 million live within 2 hours from CPH
(https://www.cph.dk/en/cph-business/avia ... mographics)

CPH and surrounding area is also home named "Medicon Valley" as it's one of the largest areas in Europe when it come to Pharmaceutical Industries. That gives a lot of business travellers.

CPH is also closer to mainland Europe, offering better connections
Types flown: A319, A320, A32N, A321, A332, A333, A343, AT43, AT75, AT76, B717, B732, B735, B736, B737, B738, B752, B753, CRJ9, DC10, DH4D, DHC3, E135, E145, E175, E190, E195, F100, MD11, MD81, MD82, MD87, RJ1H
 
Kikko19
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Re: SAS to get A321LR

Thu Jan 24, 2019 5:43 am

SASViking wrote:
iadadd wrote:
A little off topic, but why has SAS historically based a big chunk of long haul flying out of CPH ? Isn't Stockholm the largest metro area in Scandinavia, plus perhaps the most "prominent" city in the region ?


Stockholm city itself is bigger than Copenhagen, but what many people forget about CPH is that it also serves southern Sweden. ARN also used to be the big LH hub for SAS but that began to change in the 90's and especially when the Bridge across Øresund opened in 1999.

According to Swedavia (the operator of ARN) there is approx 3.85 million people within a 2 hour drive of ARN
(https://goo.gl/images/CT7d35)

While according to CPH 4.1 million live within 2 hours from CPH
(https://www.cph.dk/en/cph-business/avia ... mographics)

CPH and surrounding area is also home named "Medicon Valley" as it's one of the largest areas in Europe when it come to Pharmaceutical Industries. That gives a lot of business travellers.

CPH is also closer to mainland Europe, offering better connections

and let's not forget that CPH gets feed also from Poland and north Germany so the catchment area is far bigger.
 
B777LRF
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Re: SAS to get A321LR

Thu Jan 24, 2019 6:09 am

iadadd wrote:
A little off topic, but why has SAS historically based a big chunk of long haul flying out of CPH ? Isn't Stockholm the largest metro area in Scandinavia, plus perhaps the most "prominent" city in the region ?


Division of labour, one might call it. When SAS launched in 1946, Norway had a lot of pilots who'd served with the allies in WWII. Having been a neutral party to the conflict, Sweden got through the war unscathed and with rather large sums of money available. Denmark has always been a bit more up beat, and had the better sales people. Thus Norway supplied the pilots, Sweden the finances and Denmark the sales and marketing.

If you take a map and draw some lines between Oslo and destinations on the European continent, Sweden and the continent and Helsinki and the continent, a lot of those lines went over or very close to Copenhagen, which made it the more opportune geographical place for a hub; flying from Copenhagen via Stockholm to Paris made no sense, whereas the other way around is almost on the great circle line.
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Asiaflyer
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Re: SAS to get A321LR

Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:45 am

cityairline wrote:
Unbelievable is has not been mentioned. I saw some statistics recently and GOT-EWR is by far the largets unserved route between Scandinavia and the US. GOT has a 2 million catchment area and is served by almost every major European carrier and also QR widebody. AAR/BLL/BGO/SVG are alot smaller markets in comparison and will not see a route to EWR in the first stage.

I was waiting for that comment as well. GOT was very close to get direct US service by Delta some 15-20 years ago and as GOT area and traffic has grown alot since. I wouldnt be surprised to see someone launching GOT-NYC service soon. Hope it will be SAS rather than Norwegian.
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tommy1808
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Re: SAS to get A321LR

Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:58 am

AAR wrote:
more interesting where will they place the crew rest ?


In a hotel. Don't need Crew rest on an A321, it doesn't fly that long. On a morning flight 13 hours are ok.

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JetBuddy
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Re: SAS to get A321LR

Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:08 am

Snippets from SAS' own press release:

"This gives SAS an opportunity to offer travelers more intercontinental routes, fewer stopovers and shorter travel times to and from Scandinavia. "

"The aircraft has sufficient range to reach Northeast US, one of the most important intercontinental markets for SAS. The A321LR can also reach destinations in Canada, the Middle East and India from Scandinavia."


https://www.sasgroup.net/en/sas-expands ... ong-range/

So it does seem they are thinking about not only the US, but Canada, Middle East and India.
 
simpan97
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Re: SAS to get A321LR

Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:59 am

B777LRF wrote:
If you take a map and draw some lines between Oslo and destinations on the European continent, Sweden and the continent and Helsinki and the continent, a lot of those lines went over or very close to Copenhagen, which made it the more opportune geographical place for a hub; flying from Copenhagen via Stockholm to Paris made no sense, whereas the other way around is almost on the great circle line.


As well as it makes no sense flying ARN-NRT/HKG/PVG/PEK via CPH as Stockholm is in the great circle line between Copenhagen and Asia.
 
Esko747
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Re: SAS to get A321LR

Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:14 pm

klm617 wrote:
Dare I say maybe DTW-CPH 4 weekly.

That would make no sense what so ever.
 
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OzarkD9S
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Re: SAS to get A321LR

Thu Jan 24, 2019 1:24 pm

iadadd wrote:

A little off topic, but why has SAS historically based a big chunk of long haul flying out of CPH ? Isn't Stockholm the largest metro area in Scandinavia, plus perhaps the most "prominent" city in the region ?


Wasn't the old saying about SAS along these lines: "Run by the Swedes for the benefit of the Danes at the expense of the Norwegians"?
Finally headed to DORKFEST! Sept 7, STL-LAX-PHX-STL. :cloudnine:
 
kanye
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Re: SAS to get A321LR

Thu Jan 24, 2019 1:51 pm

iadadd wrote:
A little off topic, but why has SAS historically based a big chunk of long haul flying out of CPH ? Isn't Stockholm the largest metro area in Scandinavia, plus perhaps the most "prominent" city in the region ?




Haha, this question can start a little Scandinavian internet forum war.
Back in 40s when SAS was created it was decided to give Stockholm the HQ and Copenhagen the main hub.
It makes sense considering the geography, everything in Europe is almost one hour closer to Copenhagen. A plane in Copenhagen can make a 1hr flight and back two times instead of one from Stockholm. Less planes doing more flights makes it more efficient. However today aviation is so big so in Europe all three capitals has direct flights to most places.
 
B777LRF
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Re: SAS to get A321LR

Thu Jan 24, 2019 6:38 pm

simpan97 wrote:
As well as it makes no sense flying ARN-NRT/HKG/PVG/PEK via CPH as Stockholm is in the great circle line between Copenhagen and Asia.


True, but direct flights to the far-east didn't exist until '57, when they flew via ANC to NRT. Even so, SAS also had a presence in Africa, South America and the US in the years following, whilst they 'only' maintained a NRT and BKK service to the far-east. So whilst your single example is of course valid, on balance the geographical location of Copenhagen was more attractive. And, as mentioned up thread, Stockholm got the HQ whilst the Norwegians got to drive the aeroplanes.
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