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keesje
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Air Canada Looking to expand NB Transatlantic Operations

Fri Jan 25, 2019 1:02 pm

Air Canada has been using 737-8 to fly transatalantic for some time and is apperently looking to expand.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-airbus-canada-aircanada/air-canada-would-study-airbus-boeing-for-transatlantic-narrowbody-needs-idUSKCN1P82FT

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SpaceshipDC10
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Re: Air Canada Looking to expand NB Transatlantic Operations

Fri Jan 25, 2019 1:09 pm

Indeed. Besides starting YUL-BOD this coming summer, they are also interested by NTE and TLS, as per what I used to start this thread: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1411145
 
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GEUltraFan9XGTF
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Re: Air Canada Looking to expand NB Transatlantic Operations

Fri Jan 25, 2019 1:10 pm

Pretty much gives them one option unless they're shopping for used 757s... I don't think the 739 (much less 10) have the legs. Can they wait a few years for Airbus to deliver?
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Galwayman
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Re: Air Canada Looking to expand NB Transatlantic Operations

Fri Jan 25, 2019 1:15 pm

Am excellent plan , a lot of Western Europe is achievable in the summer
 
Noise
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Re: Air Canada Looking to expand NB Transatlantic Operations

Fri Jan 25, 2019 1:32 pm

A long range narrow body aircraft for AC would open up a ton of markets from YUL and YYZ.
 
airzona11
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Re: Air Canada Looking to expand NB Transatlantic Operations

Fri Jan 25, 2019 1:35 pm

AC will need to command a premium to make the long thin routes work. If these operate as part of JVs, I would expect them to pick off Star Alliance leaning cities.
 
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keesje
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Re: Air Canada Looking to expand NB Transatlantic Operations

Fri Jan 25, 2019 2:09 pm

They seem to fly secondary destinations from Hubs. E.g. Halifax - London Heathrow
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Bhoy
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Re: Air Canada Looking to expand NB Transatlantic Operations

Fri Jan 25, 2019 2:25 pm

keesje wrote:
They seem to fly secondary destinations from Hubs. E.g. Halifax - London Heathrow

The Halifax-Heathrow used to be a 763, but as that fleet got moved to rouge, they elected to keep the route Mainline, and deploying the Max they were already introducing to the summer only YYT-LHR route (previously served by 319s).
YUL-BOD this summer is more a secondary destination from a Hub- are you counting Halifax/St Johns as a secondary destination from a Heathrow Hub?
 
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Re: Air Canada Looking to expand NB Transatlantic Operations

Fri Jan 25, 2019 2:38 pm

YYZ - BHX should a good route for a Max, if only in summer.
 
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Re: Air Canada Looking to expand NB Transatlantic Operations

Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:09 pm

Bhoy wrote:
keesje wrote:
They seem to fly secondary destinations from Hubs. E.g. Halifax - London Heathrow

The Halifax-Heathrow used to be a 763, but as that fleet got moved to rouge, they elected to keep the route Mainline, and deploying the Max they were already introducing to the summer only YYT-LHR route (previously served by 319s).
YUL-BOD this summer is more a secondary destination from a Hub- are you counting Halifax/St Johns as a secondary destination from a Heathrow Hub?


YYT-LHR has been back to year-round for several years now.

There is definitely much more transatlantic potential for AC with the 7M8, but there'd be even more with the 321LR or possible XLR out of Eastern Canada out of YYZ, YUL, YOW, YQB, YHZ and maybe even YYT now that WS has pulled all transatlantic.

I wonder if a proposed 321XLR would have the legs to do YWG-LHR in summer?

TC957 wrote:
YYZ - BHX should a good route for a Max, if only in summer.


That would seem like the next largest market in the UK to add. BRS, BFS and NCL too on a summer seasonal basis seem like potential AC narrowbody destinations out of YYZ.
Last edited by Dominion301 on Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:16 pm, edited 4 times in total.
 
YYZLGA
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Re: Air Canada Looking to expand NB Transatlantic Operations

Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:11 pm

I wonder if AC will install normal international J cabins on these aircraft or if they'll stick with domestic J so that they can be used more flexibly..
 
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MrBren
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Re: Air Canada Looking to expand NB Transatlantic Operations

Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:19 pm

In a cramped 737? NO WAY.
 
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Re: Air Canada Looking to expand NB Transatlantic Operations

Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:25 pm

MrBren wrote:
In a cramped 737? NO WAY.


18' of leg room is the same whether its in a 788 or a 737. I'd much rather go TATL on a 73/757 than a 10-abreast 77W any day of the week.
 
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Re: Air Canada Looking to expand NB Transatlantic Operations

Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:28 pm

MrBren wrote:
In a cramped 737? NO WAY.

And yet millions travel TATL on NB's and have for 60 years.

But no-one's forcing you. Just go to Toronto/Montreal and fly a WB to Paris, and then take HOP for example to your regional destination.
 
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Re: Air Canada Looking to expand NB Transatlantic Operations

Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:29 pm

MrBren wrote:
In a cramped 737? NO WAY.


Oh dear. It's no longer than some transcontinental or even longer intra-European routes. As long as the seat and legroom provides comfort, who cares?

Dominion301 wrote:
That would seem like the next largest market in the UK to add. BRS, BFS and NCL too on a summer seasonal basis seem like potential AC narrowbody destinations out of YYZ.


Could a heavy laden Max 8 make it out of BRS? BFS is interesting, there is a huge ancesteral link between the area and Canada, and pre-recession there were upwards of 6 weekly flights from BFS to various Canadian cities
 
rampbro
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Re: Air Canada Looking to expand NB Transatlantic Operations

Fri Jan 25, 2019 4:14 pm

I came to this thread expecting a discussion about the merits of a London flight for Moncton or Saint John.
 
346fetish
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Re: Air Canada Looking to expand NB Transatlantic Operations

Fri Jan 25, 2019 4:29 pm

rampbro wrote:
I came to this thread expecting a discussion about the merits of a London flight for Moncton or Saint John.


YQM-LHR...probably as good as CRL-HKG.
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Re: Air Canada Looking to expand NB Transatlantic Operations

Fri Jan 25, 2019 4:47 pm

opticalilyushin wrote:
MrBren wrote:
In a cramped 737? NO WAY.


Oh dear. It's no longer than some transcontinental or even longer intra-European routes. As long as the seat and legroom provides comfort, who cares?

Dominion301 wrote:
That would seem like the next largest market in the UK to add. BRS, BFS and NCL too on a summer seasonal basis seem like potential AC narrowbody destinations out of YYZ.


Could a heavy laden Max 8 make it out of BRS? BFS is interesting, there is a huge ancesteral link between the area and Canada, and pre-recession there were upwards of 6 weekly flights from BFS to various Canadian cities


I've flown transoceanic flights in DC-8's and 757's. It's no big deal. A 737 has the same room as a 757.
 
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Re: Air Canada Looking to expand NB Transatlantic Operations

Fri Jan 25, 2019 5:00 pm

Does anyone know if they're all ETOPS equipped?
I only ask as the latest one, C-FSOI still hasn't been to Heathrow despite having been delivered last June. We used to see two dedicated A319s as they were the only ones with the life rafts for long over water flights (apparently), are AC going to have subfleets of narrow bodies deployed on long haul?
 
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Re: Air Canada Looking to expand NB Transatlantic Operations

Fri Jan 25, 2019 5:09 pm

MrBren wrote:
In a cramped 737? NO WAY.

I have crossed the Atlantic in a DC-8, 707, 720, Super VC-10 and a TU-114. While less leg room, the seat is about the same width. However, the 737 offers things the older generation Narrow Body aircraft did not! I'd call it a wash.

And ... speaking of DC-8s, did anyone else notice that the registration of that 737 is the same one that once adorned an Air Canada DC-8-61?
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User001
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Re: Air Canada Looking to expand NB Transatlantic Operations

Fri Jan 25, 2019 5:29 pm

Wonder if narrowbody ops could give the likes of MAN year round flights instead of just summer seasonal?
 
airevents
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Re: Air Canada Looking to expand NB Transatlantic Operations

Fri Jan 25, 2019 5:45 pm

Halifax - Frankfurt seems like a good opportunity for AC, even if it´s only during the summer months.
 
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Re: Air Canada Looking to expand NB Transatlantic Operations

Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:00 pm

GEUltraFan9XGTF wrote:
Pretty much gives them one option unless they're shopping for used 757s... I don't think the 739 (much less 10) have the legs. Can they wait a few years for Airbus to deliver?


I'm certain they'll be considering the NMA as well
 
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Re: Air Canada Looking to expand NB Transatlantic Operations

Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:02 pm

longhauler wrote:
MrBren wrote:
In a cramped 737? NO WAY.

I have crossed the Atlantic in a DC-8, 707, 720, Super VC-10 and a TU-114. While less leg room, the seat is about the same width. However, the 737 offers things the older generation Narrow Body aircraft did not! I'd call it a wash.

And ... speaking of DC-8s, did anyone else notice that the registration of that 737 is the same one that once adorned an Air Canada DC-8-61?


If an airline were still flying 707's or DC-8's across the Atlantic, it would decrease the seat pitch to what is seen on 757's and 737's that currently fly transoceanic flights.
 
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Re: Air Canada Looking to expand NB Transatlantic Operations

Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:14 pm

This is part of the strategy to focus on YUL for expansion of TATL services. Given the strong link between Quebec and France, they're starting by expanding NB service to alternate cities in France, which seems to be going quite well. YUL will now be connected regularly to, I believe, 4 different cities via AC? With a good possibility of that expanding again soon. The MAXs are playing a major role in this.

And as much as I don't like the MAX, unless you're travelling in flatbed J, there is literally nothing that AC's widebodies offer that the MAXs do not. Same seats, newer entertainment, same legroom. The only difference is that they market North American J as PY for the TATL flights.
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Re: Air Canada Looking to expand NB Transatlantic Operations

Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:21 pm

346fetish wrote:
rampbro wrote:
I came to this thread expecting a discussion about the merits of a London flight for Moncton or Saint John.


YQM-LHR...probably as good as CRL-HKG.


I know that might sound silly at first glance but YQM did used to have a weekly flight to CDG on Corsair and a weekly charter to I think HAM on Thomas Cook. YFC had TS to LGW for one summer, but I don't think YSJ has the runway length for a transatlantic. However, if New Brunswick were ever to get a transatlantic flight again, it wouldn't be to LHR on AC. I'd hazard a guess that AC would reopen LHR-YEG if they ever got their hands on an additional LHR slot.
Last edited by Dominion301 on Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
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Re: Air Canada Looking to expand NB Transatlantic Operations

Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:22 pm

rrlopes wrote:
GEUltraFan9XGTF wrote:
Pretty much gives them one option unless they're shopping for used 757s... I don't think the 739 (much less 10) have the legs. Can they wait a few years for Airbus to deliver?


I'm certain they'll be considering the NMA as well

The article refers to Mark Galardo (VP of network planning) saying that AC would study option including the (as yet unlaunched) A321XLR, but that it's too soon to discuss it.
 
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Re: Air Canada Looking to expand NB Transatlantic Operations

Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:23 pm

skipness1E wrote:
Does anyone know if they're all ETOPS equipped?
I only ask as the latest one, C-FSOI still hasn't been to Heathrow despite having been delivered last June. We used to see two dedicated A319s as they were the only ones with the life rafts for long over water flights (apparently), are AC going to have subfleets of narrow bodies deployed on long haul?


No, I don’t believe all of AC MAXs are ETOPs equipped.
 
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Re: Air Canada Looking to expand NB Transatlantic Operations

Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:29 pm

    aerolimani wrote:
    rrlopes wrote:
    GEUltraFan9XGTF wrote:
    Pretty much gives them one option unless they're shopping for used 757s... I don't think the 739 (much less 10) have the legs. Can they wait a few years for Airbus to deliver?


    I'm certain they'll be considering the NMA as well

    The article refers to Mark Galardo (VP of network planning) saying that AC would study option including the (as yet unlaunched) A321XLR, but that it's too soon to discuss it.



    Not to drift this thread. But the A321XLR would be a viable replacement for the Rouge 767. Not all of the 767s, but between 5 and 10 of them.
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    willenglish
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    Re: Air Canada Looking to expand NB Transatlantic Operations

    Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:30 pm

    I think in the coming years, we can expect to see a combination of the following in the 7M8;

    YUL-TLS/NTE
    YYZ-BHX, maybe some secondary German markets (DSL, HAM, CGN?)
    YQB-CDG
    YHZ-FRA

    Also, it would be nice to see another route to Scandinavia. OSL or ARN from YYZ, both being Star Alliance hubs. Falls within the range of the 7M8, but would probably take payload hits westbound so it might not be the right aircraft for the route. Not sure if Scandinavia would work in a WB, even if not daily.
     
    sanjet
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    Re: Air Canada Looking to expand NB Transatlantic Operations

    Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:37 pm

    Whiteguy wrote:
    skipness1E wrote:
    Does anyone know if they're all ETOPS equipped?
    I only ask as the latest one, C-FSOI still hasn't been to Heathrow despite having been delivered last June. We used to see two dedicated A319s as they were the only ones with the life rafts for long over water flights (apparently), are AC going to have subfleets of narrow bodies deployed on long haul?


    No, I don’t believe all of AC MAXs are ETOPs equipped.


    Only 18 fins are ETOPS certified. I guess they can change the option on future deliveries.
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    whywhyzee
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    Re: Air Canada Looking to expand NB Transatlantic Operations

    Fri Jan 25, 2019 7:03 pm

    If they go with the A321neoXLR, they could conceivably cover all non hub long haul flying save for YYC-NRT at 4300nm.

    A configuration could be a 3 class layout, J/y+/y at ~ 12/12/148 for 172 seats total, which should keep payload very manageable and still leave room for full fuel assuming 100kg/pax.

    These frames could also be used on transcons with moderate premium demand, YUL-YVR or yyz-yyc for example, or off peak demand yyz-sfo/lax/yvr flights.

    It also opens up options like a third daily yyz-fra operating as a daylight flight, or a second daily YYZ-CDG to compete with AF. This is besides the obvious thinner TATL markets that are numerous.

    They could easily take 25 frames, use some for TATL, some for transcontinental and replace the current A321s while they are at it. That gives them 12 aircraft for growth.
     
    Thibault973
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    Re: Air Canada Looking to expand NB Transatlantic Operations

    Fri Jan 25, 2019 9:51 pm

    346fetish wrote:
    rampbro wrote:
    I came to this thread expecting a discussion about the merits of a London flight for Moncton or Saint John.


    YQM-LHR...probably as good as CRL-HKG.


    SS flew from ORY to Moncton for a few seasons circa 2004-2006. And with a 588 seater 744 ! Once

    This articles says 1 weekly 744 flight for 12 weeks in the summer 2005

    https://www.gnb.ca/cnb/news/tp/2005e0815tp.htm
     
    beechnut
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    Re: Air Canada Looking to expand NB Transatlantic Operations

    Fri Jan 25, 2019 9:57 pm

    sanjet wrote:

    Only 18 fins are ETOPS certified. I guess they can change the option on future deliveries.


    There are currently only 18 MAX in service! So that means, so far, that all are ETOPS.

    Beech
     
    SpaceshipDC10
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    Re: Air Canada Looking to expand NB Transatlantic Operations

    Fri Jan 25, 2019 9:58 pm

    Thibault973 wrote:
    SS flew from ORY to Moncton for a few seasons circa 2004-2006. And with a 588 seater 744 ! Once

    This articles says 1 weekly 744 flight for 12 weeks in the summer 2005

    https://www.gnb.ca/cnb/news/tp/2005e0815tp.htm


    I remember reading some 15 years ago about SS flying ORY-YQM-YUL or perhaps still YMX, and I believe it was with an A332. Perhaps we could find something in the archives.
     
    sixtyseven
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    Re: Air Canada Looking to expand NB Transatlantic Operations

    Fri Jan 25, 2019 10:09 pm

    beechnut wrote:
    sanjet wrote:

    Only 18 fins are ETOPS certified. I guess they can change the option on future deliveries.


    There are currently only 18 MAX in service! So that means, so far, that all are ETOPS.

    Beech


    Exactly

    They will all be ETOPS
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    skipness1E
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    Re: Air Canada Looking to expand NB Transatlantic Operations

    Fri Jan 25, 2019 10:23 pm

    sixtyseven wrote:
    beechnut wrote:
    sanjet wrote:

    Only 18 fins are ETOPS certified. I guess they can change the option on future deliveries.


    There are currently only 18 MAX in service! So that means, so far, that all are ETOPS.

    Beech


    Exactly

    They will all be ETOPS

    So how come #18, C-FSOI/518, hasn't crossed the Atlantic in the eight months since delivery then? :)
     
    SpaceshipDC10
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    Re: Air Canada Looking to expand NB Transatlantic Operations

    Fri Jan 25, 2019 10:31 pm

    longhauler wrote:
    And ... speaking of DC-8s, did anyone else notice that the registration of that 737 is the same one that once adorned an Air Canada DC-8-61?


    No, but that's because I never really pay much attention to the 737s in general. I'm not really fond of them.

     
    billsalton92
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    Re: Air Canada Looking to expand NB Transatlantic Operations

    Fri Jan 25, 2019 11:00 pm

    SpaceshipDC10 wrote:
    longhauler wrote:
    And ... speaking of DC-8s, did anyone else notice that the registration of that 737 is the same one that once adorned an Air Canada DC-8-61?


    No, but that's because I never really pay much attention to the 737s in general. I'm not really fond of them.



    You're one of several
     
    beechnut
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    Re: Air Canada Looking to expand NB Transatlantic Operations

    Fri Jan 25, 2019 11:02 pm

    SpaceshipDC10 wrote:
    longhauler wrote:
    And ... speaking of DC-8s, did anyone else notice that the registration of that 737 is the same one that once adorned an Air Canada DC-8-61?


    No, but that's because I never really pay much attention to the 737s in general. I'm not really fond of them.



    As long as they don't register one as C-FTIW, -FTJM, -FTJK, -FTJN, I'm good!

    I'm no big 737 fan either, but the MAX does seem very capable and with excellent economics. And I'm sure that after seeing the A320 NEO debacle, AC must really feel they've dodged a bullet by selecting the MAX.

    That said, I'd be happy to see a 321LR in the fleet

    Beech
     
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    Re: Air Canada Looking to expand NB Transatlantic Operations

    Sat Jan 26, 2019 3:53 am

    MrBren wrote:
    In a cramped 737? NO WAY.

    Oh no! Need a tissue? :rotfl:
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    whywhyzee
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    Re: Air Canada Looking to expand NB Transatlantic Operations

    Sat Jan 26, 2019 4:52 pm

    beechnut wrote:
    SpaceshipDC10 wrote:
    longhauler wrote:
    And ... speaking of DC-8s, did anyone else notice that the registration of that 737 is the same one that once adorned an Air Canada DC-8-61?


    No, but that's because I never really pay much attention to the 737s in general. I'm not really fond of them.



    As long as they don't register one as C-FTIW, -FTJM, -FTJK, -FTJN, I'm good!

    I'm no big 737 fan either, but the MAX does seem very capable and with excellent economics. And I'm sure that after seeing the A320 NEO debacle, AC must really feel they've dodged a bullet by selecting the MAX.

    That said, I'd be happy to see a 321LR in the fleet

    Beech


    I think the benefit of the max for AC is its range (it can take full fuel and full pax, though it is limited by the baggage weight there) and its size advantage over the A320. The extra couple rows certainly help. They still haven't been able to cut down on turn times, being bulk loaded, they can't do less than about an hour, which isn't the best for the rapidairs, but unfortunately is reality.

    Ultimately, the max 8 > a320 neo, AC can set itself up to have the most optimised aircraft at each narrowbody aize, CS300, 7M8 and A321neo. They have grown enough that they will still operate large enough fleets of each type that the commonality isn't so much of a problem.
     
    sixtyseven
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    Re: Air Canada Looking to expand NB Transatlantic Operations

    Sat Jan 26, 2019 6:12 pm

    whywhyzee wrote:
    beechnut wrote:
    SpaceshipDC10 wrote:

    No, but that's because I never really pay much attention to the 737s in general. I'm not really fond of them.



    As long as they don't register one as C-FTIW, -FTJM, -FTJK, -FTJN, I'm good!

    I'm no big 737 fan either, but the MAX does seem very capable and with excellent economics. And I'm sure that after seeing the A320 NEO debacle, AC must really feel they've dodged a bullet by selecting the MAX.

    That said, I'd be happy to see a 321LR in the fleet

    Beech


    I think the benefit of the max for AC is its range (it can take full fuel and full pax, though it is limited by the baggage weight there) and its size advantage over the A320. The extra couple rows certainly help. They still haven't been able to cut down on turn times, being bulk loaded, they can't do less than about an hour, which isn't the best for the rapidairs, but unfortunately is reality.

    Ultimately, the max 8 > a320 neo, AC can set itself up to have the most optimised aircraft at each narrowbody aize, CS300, 7M8 and A321neo. They have grown enough that they will still operate large enough fleets of each type that the commonality isn't so much of a problem.


    It isn’t so much bulk un/loading as it is getting the pax on and off. If it was loading they could easily up the manning of the ground crew.

    Despite the massive bins they are still having a helluva time getting people on and off the thing in a timely manner.

    This discussion came up wrt increasing the bin size in another fleet type. Although it reduces the amount of gate checked bags for some reason it is not speeding up the boarding and deplaning of passengers. This is befuddling to many people and is one of the few trouble spots AC has had with the Max’s EIS
    Stand-by for new ATIS message......
     
    whywhyzee
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    Re: Air Canada Looking to expand NB Transatlantic Operations

    Sat Jan 26, 2019 6:27 pm

    sixtyseven wrote:
    whywhyzee wrote:
    beechnut wrote:

    As long as they don't register one as C-FTIW, -FTJM, -FTJK, -FTJN, I'm good!

    I'm no big 737 fan either, but the MAX does seem very capable and with excellent economics. And I'm sure that after seeing the A320 NEO debacle, AC must really feel they've dodged a bullet by selecting the MAX.

    That said, I'd be happy to see a 321LR in the fleet

    Beech


    I think the benefit of the max for AC is its range (it can take full fuel and full pax, though it is limited by the baggage weight there) and its size advantage over the A320. The extra couple rows certainly help. They still haven't been able to cut down on turn times, being bulk loaded, they can't do less than about an hour, which isn't the best for the rapidairs, but unfortunately is reality.

    Ultimately, the max 8 > a320 neo, AC can set itself up to have the most optimised aircraft at each narrowbody aize, CS300, 7M8 and A321neo. They have grown enough that they will still operate large enough fleets of each type that the commonality isn't so much of a problem.


    It isn’t so much bulk un/loading as it is getting the pax on and off. If it was loading they could easily up the manning of the ground crew.

    Despite the massive bins they are still having a helluva time getting people on and off the thing in a timely manner.

    This discussion came up wrt increasing the bin size in another fleet type. Although it reduces the amount of gate checked bags for some reason it is not speeding up the boarding and deplaning of passengers. This is befuddling to many people and is one of the few trouble spots AC has had with the Max’s EIS


    Interesting, I wasn't aware of that being a hitch. Theoretically, it should be solvable (though how is anyone's guess).
     
    sixtyseven
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    Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 9:42 am

    Re: Air Canada Looking to expand NB Transatlantic Operations

    Sat Jan 26, 2019 10:13 pm

    whywhyzee wrote:
    sixtyseven wrote:
    whywhyzee wrote:

    I think the benefit of the max for AC is its range (it can take full fuel and full pax, though it is limited by the baggage weight there) and its size advantage over the A320. The extra couple rows certainly help. They still haven't been able to cut down on turn times, being bulk loaded, they can't do less than about an hour, which isn't the best for the rapidairs, but unfortunately is reality.

    Ultimately, the max 8 > a320 neo, AC can set itself up to have the most optimised aircraft at each narrowbody aize, CS300, 7M8 and A321neo. They have grown enough that they will still operate large enough fleets of each type that the commonality isn't so much of a problem.


    It isn’t so much bulk un/loading as it is getting the pax on and off. If it was loading they could easily up the manning of the ground crew.

    Despite the massive bins they are still having a helluva time getting people on and off the thing in a timely manner.

    This discussion came up wrt increasing the bin size in another fleet type. Although it reduces the amount of gate checked bags for some reason it is not speeding up the boarding and deplaning of passengers. This is befuddling to many people and is one of the few trouble spots AC has had with the Max’s EIS


    Interesting, I wasn't aware of that being a hitch. Theoretically, it should be solvable (though how is anyone's guess).


    It was kind of eye opening for me as well.
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    musman9853
    Posts: 777
    Joined: Mon May 14, 2018 12:30 pm

    Re: Air Canada Looking to expand NB Transatlantic Operations

    Sat Jan 26, 2019 11:10 pm

    rrlopes wrote:
    GEUltraFan9XGTF wrote:
    Pretty much gives them one option unless they're shopping for used 757s... I don't think the 739 (much less 10) have the legs. Can they wait a few years for Airbus to deliver?


    I'm certain they'll be considering the NMA as well



    that's still at least 6+ years away and i dont think AC want to be the launch customer
    Welcome to the City Beautiful.
     
    codyul
    Posts: 64
    Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:43 pm

    Re: Air Canada Looking to expand NB Transatlantic Operations

    Sun Jan 27, 2019 3:08 am

    Bins are indeed huge. However on my last 3 legs in the aircraft we had huge troubles getting the bags in. People are bringing more and more carry on. And my suspicion is that gate agents are allowing clear infractions in both size and amount of bags because after all 'the bins are huge'
    But as said, all of this is making boarding especially slow. Deplaning is consequently slower. 169pax 7m8 vs 146pax 320
    YUL PNC :weightlifter:
     
    Planeflyer
    Posts: 1405
    Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2014 3:49 am

    Re: Air Canada Looking to expand NB Transatlantic Operations

    Sun Jan 27, 2019 4:34 am

    The peter bin principal.
     
    filipair
    Posts: 161
    Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 3:28 am

    Re: Air Canada Looking to expand NB Transatlantic Operations

    Sun Jan 27, 2019 7:22 am

    sixtyseven wrote:
    whywhyzee wrote:
    beechnut wrote:

    As long as they don't register one as C-FTIW, -FTJM, -FTJK, -FTJN, I'm good!

    I'm no big 737 fan either, but the MAX does seem very capable and with excellent economics. And I'm sure that after seeing the A320 NEO debacle, AC must really feel they've dodged a bullet by selecting the MAX.

    That said, I'd be happy to see a 321LR in the fleet

    Beech


    I think the benefit of the max for AC is its range (it can take full fuel and full pax, though it is limited by the baggage weight there) and its size advantage over the A320. The extra couple rows certainly help. They still haven't been able to cut down on turn times, being bulk loaded, they can't do less than about an hour, which isn't the best for the rapidairs, but unfortunately is reality.

    Ultimately, the max 8 > a320 neo, AC can set itself up to have the most optimised aircraft at each narrowbody aize, CS300, 7M8 and A321neo. They have grown enough that they will still operate large enough fleets of each type that the commonality isn't so much of a problem.


    It isn’t so much bulk un/loading as it is getting the pax on and off. If it was loading they could easily up the manning of the ground crew.

    Despite the massive bins they are still having a helluva time getting people on and off the thing in a timely manner.

    This discussion came up wrt increasing the bin size in another fleet type. Although it reduces the amount of gate checked bags for some reason it is not speeding up the boarding and deplaning of passengers. This is befuddling to many people and is one of the few trouble spots AC has had with the Max’s EIS


    Interesting. I haven't been on the AC Max. Could it be because the aisle is too narrow?
     
    sixtyseven
    Posts: 807
    Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 9:42 am

    Re: Air Canada Looking to expand NB Transatlantic Operations

    Sun Jan 27, 2019 4:22 pm

    filipair wrote:
    sixtyseven wrote:
    whywhyzee wrote:

    I think the benefit of the max for AC is its range (it can take full fuel and full pax, though it is limited by the baggage weight there) and its size advantage over the A320. The extra couple rows certainly help. They still haven't been able to cut down on turn times, being bulk loaded, they can't do less than about an hour, which isn't the best for the rapidairs, but unfortunately is reality.

    Ultimately, the max 8 > a320 neo, AC can set itself up to have the most optimised aircraft at each narrowbody aize, CS300, 7M8 and A321neo. They have grown enough that they will still operate large enough fleets of each type that the commonality isn't so much of a problem.


    It isn’t so much bulk un/loading as it is getting the pax on and off. If it was loading they could easily up the manning of the ground crew.

    Despite the massive bins they are still having a helluva time getting people on and off the thing in a timely manner.

    This discussion came up wrt increasing the bin size in another fleet type. Although it reduces the amount of gate checked bags for some reason it is not speeding up the boarding and deplaning of passengers. This is befuddling to many people and is one of the few trouble spots AC has had with the Max’s EIS


    Interesting. I haven't been on the AC Max. Could it be because the aisle is too narrow?


    From the person I talked to who is very involved in this it’s the deplaning that is the most perplexing. They can’t get the people off and the groomers on to start the turnaround. I haven’t been on one of ours so I can’t comment on the aisle size. But you could very well be right.

    It’s a consistent problem
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