LGA Groundstopped due to staffing / other delays [EWR/PHL]

flyguy84 · Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:03 pm

LGA currently is in a second tier stop due to staffing constraints. PHL and EWR have been experiencing departure delays due to staffing concerns in DC center.

Update: it appears the staffing constraints are in ZDC which are causing passback restrictions to ZNY/N90 effecting the NY airports.

Update 2: ZJX is also facing staffing concerns which have led to departure restrictions out of TPA this morning and also compounding issues at LGA.

https://www.fly.faa.gov/ois/

https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/arti ... c-staffing

737307 · Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:15 pm

BREAKING NEWS:

https://twitter.com/business?ref_src=tw ... r%5Eauthor
https://www.thestreet.com/politics/faa- ... t-14845819

The FAA said it is temporarily halting flights into New York's LaGuardia airport due to air traffic control staffing issues as a government shutdown extends into its second month.

Shares of DL, AA are sinking as a result.

flyguy84 · Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:16 pm

Already posted and it’s not ALL flights.

www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1413937

flyguy84 · Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:19 pm

And shares of AA and DL are both in positive territory. Not sinking.

RDUDDJI · Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:32 pm

Sadly, long lines at the airport may be what it takes to get our politicians to do what they should have done a month ago. Really sad that it's come to this...

FlyingElvii · Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:34 pm

Organized sick out to protest not being paid??

bgm · Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:35 pm

Good. The sooner the US general public start feeling the pain of the shutdown, the sooner politicians will get it fixed. It's sad it has to be this way, but so be it.

Sooner787 · Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:42 pm

If that's what it takes to get the pols in DC to get off their arses and hammer out a deal ,
go for it. Both sides are acting like petulant 2 year olds

FlyingElvii · Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:45 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
BREAKING NEWS:

https://twitter.com/business?ref_src=tw ... r%5Eauthor
https://www.thestreet.com/politics/faa- ... t-14845819

The FAA said it is temporarily halting flights into New York's LaGuardia airport due to air traffic control staffing issues as a government shutdown extends into its second month.

Shares of DL, AA are sinking as a result.

Ground stop lifted. Ground delay program for LGA in place. So just like any other day at LaGuardia...

WeatherPilot · Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:45 pm

Ground stop at LGA was just lifted. Arriving flights still need to call for a release time from their departure airport.

Sooner787 · Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:45 pm

FlyingElvii wrote:
Organized sick out to protest not being paid??

Surprised it's taken this long for this to start. But if this is what it takes
to wake up DC......so be it

slcdeltarumd11 · Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:47 pm

100% agree. Rediculius neither side will compromise! I think we all agree something has to be done, and both parties are acting like 2 year olds. We will see more major issues in the expensive cities like NY, LA, Chicago people need paychecks. SFO has a private company so they are getting paid as normal , housing prices so high they would be the first to have to call out.

FlyingElvii · Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:47 pm

WeatherPilot wrote:
Ground stop at LGA was just lifted. Arriving flights still need to call for a release time from their departure airport.

So, just like any other day at LGA.

UALifer · Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:50 pm

Are delays only impacting flights coming from the south? Everything west and east should be handled by ZNY/ZBW/ZOB

kalvado · Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:51 pm

Sooner787 wrote:
FlyingElvii wrote:
Organized sick out to protest not being paid??

Surprised it's taken this long for this to start. But if this is what it takes
to wake up DC......so be it

DCA needs to do the same for a true effect.

surfpunk · Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:56 pm

FlyingElvii wrote:
Organized sick out to protest not being paid??

Likely, yeah. And I wouldn't blame them, either. Working without pay for over a month in a high-stress job like ATC? Ain't nobody got time for that.

rnav2dlrey · Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:56 pm

FlyingElvii wrote:
Ground stop lifted. Ground delay program for LGA in place. So just like any other day at LaGuardia...

well, other than the fact that the root cause for this was staffing, not volume.

if the shutdown continues into next week, i have a feeling that this won’t be the only time this happens. monday morning could be an inflection point.

evank516 · Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:57 pm

UALifer wrote:
Are delays only impacting flights coming from the south? Everything west and east should be handled by ZNY/ZBW/ZOB

Delta 2958 operating DTW-LGA has been delayed 1 hour and 5 minutes past scheduled departure. Estimated arrival at LaGuardia 25 mins behind schedule since DTW-LGA is really only an hour and 15 minute flight.
Delta 2967 must have had a lengthy taxi time as they were scheduled to arrive at LaGuardia at 10:40 AM local time. They pushed back 6 minutes behind schedule at 8:41 AM. Estimated arrival at LaGuardia is 12:08 PM Local Time which is 1 hour and 28 minutes behind schedule.
Delta 2277 operating MSP-LGA has been delayed 1 hour and 5 minutes past scheduled departure. Estimated arrival at LaGuardia 46 minutes behind schedule.
Delta 1911 operating MSP-LGA is awaiting take off and pushed off the gate 51 minutes past scheduled departure time. Estimated arrival at LaGuardia 42 minutes behind schedule as of right now.

I'm seeing delays on Delta's ORD flights as well.

*Source: Delta.com

So I guess the answer to your question would be no.

Armodeen · Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:58 pm

They need to walk out en mass to get the attention of those in power. Nobody cares it seems.

jscottwomack · Fri Jan 25, 2019 4:00 pm

The controllers should have started at DCA yesterday morning to keep Congress in town so they can work on the problem. But Congress decided to adjourn on Thursday for a 3 day weekend and not work to solve the problem.

Noreastshuttle · Fri Jan 25, 2019 4:08 pm

surfpunk wrote:
FlyingElvii wrote:
Organized sick out to protest not being paid??

Likely, yeah. And I wouldn't blame them, either. Working without pay for over a month in a high-stress job like ATC? Ain't nobody got time for that.

I don't blame them either. Not being paid and told to come to work is asinine and cruel. If NY and WAS center both slowdown that would really put it in perspective.
I'm not sure I would come to work either. Could you imagine their home life stresses. Not only that but living in some of the most expensive places in the nation with no money for your family. God bless those federal workers. I support you.

hayzel777 · Fri Jan 25, 2019 4:09 pm

Sooner787 wrote:
FlyingElvii wrote:
Organized sick out to protest not being paid??

Surprised it's taken this long for this to start. But if this is what it takes
to wake up DC......so be it

I believe this is the first paycheck ATC has missed. Might as well skip out if you aren't getting paid.

AWACSooner · Fri Jan 25, 2019 4:12 pm

Currently sitting on the taxiway in ATL going to NAS...the wait to takeoff is going to be longer than the actual flight. I get the frustration on the staffers part...but when their actions impact the lives of millions of travelers each day, there needs to be some accountability.

Edit: and before the bandwagon starts jumping down my throat, I too have had to work for free during past government shutdowns (obviously not for this duration).

alfa164 · Fri Jan 25, 2019 4:14 pm

kalvado wrote:
Sooner787 wrote:
FlyingElvii wrote:
Organized sick out to protest not being paid??

Surprised it's taken this long for this to start. But if this is what it takes
to wake up DC......so be it

DCA needs to do the same for a true effect.

This. If DCA shut down on a Friday - and our inane Congress couldn't fly home for the weekend - this hostage-taking would come to a rapid demise.

WayexTDI · Fri Jan 25, 2019 4:37 pm

AWACSooner wrote:
Currently sitting on the taxiway in ATL going to NAS...the wait to takeoff is going to be longer than the actual flight. I get the frustration on the staffers part...but when their actions impact the lives of millions of travelers each day, there needs to be some accountability.

Edit: and before the bandwagon starts jumping down my throat, I too have had to work for free during past government shutdowns (obviously not for this duration).

Sure some people need to be held accountable, but most likely not those who you're thinking about [staring heavily towards the White House and DC]...

atcsundevil · Fri Jan 25, 2019 4:45 pm

surfpunk wrote:
FlyingElvii wrote:
Organized sick out to protest not being paid??

Likely, yeah. And I wouldn't blame them, either. Working without pay for over a month in a high-stress job like ATC? Ain't nobody got time for that.

No. This is NOT an organized sick out. Higher than normal call outs? Yes, that's inevitable the longer this goes on. That does not imply anything is organized.

atcsundevil · Fri Jan 25, 2019 4:47 pm

hayzel777 wrote:
I believe this is the first paycheck ATC has missed. Might as well skip out if you aren't getting paid.

Today is our second missed paycheck.

atcsundevil · Fri Jan 25, 2019 4:53 pm

Reminder to users: This is the Civil Aviation Forum. Political discussions belong in the NON AVIATION FORUM.

This thread isn't about discussing politics, ATC privatization, or anything other than the aviation implications of this shutdown, and how it relates to this story.

Please keep the thread on topic. Off topic comments will be removed.

✈️ atcsundevil

chunhimlai · Fri Jan 25, 2019 4:54 pm

Can airlines or state/city gov pre-pay salaries of airport/FAA staffs?

Jouhou · Fri Jan 25, 2019 4:58 pm

chunhimlai wrote:
Can airlines or state/city gov pre-pay salaries of airport/FAA staffs?

Some states are trying to do something, but I don't know through what mechanism. Like, I'm not entirely sure states can pay feds but some are trying to.

bgm · Fri Jan 25, 2019 4:59 pm

AWACSooner wrote:
but when their actions impact the lives of millions of travelers each day, there needs to be some accountability.

100% disagree.

This is what precisely needs to happen to pressure congress to find a resolution to this clusterf**k. Only when the average American like you starts to feel the pain from the shutdown, will Congress listen and act. Up until now, it's only been federal employees that have been suffering.

More pain = more pressure on your gov representatives to get their finger out and get this solved.

TVNWZ · Fri Jan 25, 2019 5:04 pm

Shut down TEB and see what happens..

Revelation · Fri Jan 25, 2019 5:07 pm

bgm wrote:
AWACSooner wrote:
but when their actions impact the lives of millions of travelers each day, there needs to be some accountability.

100% disagree.

This is what precisely needs to happen to pressure congress to find a resolution to this clusterf**k. Only when the average American like you starts to feel the pain from the shutdown, will Congress listen and act. Up until now, it's only been federal employees that have been suffering.

More pain = more pressure on your gov representatives to get their finger out and get this solved.

It is up to Congress to provide the resources needed for safe operation of our aviation infrastructure at its required capacity.

It's not up to the individual ATC employees to work without pay because Congress is shirking their responsibility.

We see safety isn't being compromised: shutdowns and slowdowns are being used to throttle back the system to meet its current capacity.

santi319 · Fri Jan 25, 2019 5:12 pm

TVNWZ wrote:
Shut down TEB and see what happens..

Exactly all the actual owners of Washington will have them fix this real quick..

winginit · Fri Jan 25, 2019 5:14 pm

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
SFO has a private company so they are getting paid as normal , housing prices so high they would be the first to have to call out.

Question about that - Yes SFO uses Covenant Aviation Security, but they're under contract with the TSA. I would assume given they're contractors that they're also not getting paid? Does anyone know for sure?

Bricktop · Fri Jan 25, 2019 5:18 pm

bgm wrote:
AWACSooner wrote:
but when their actions impact the lives of millions of travelers each day, there needs to be some accountability.

100% disagree.

This is what precisely needs to happen to pressure congress to find a resolution to this clusterf**k. Only when the average American like you starts to feel the pain from the shutdown, will Congress listen and act. Up until now, it's only been federal employees that have been suffering.

More pain = more pressure on your gov representatives to get their finger out and get this solved.

Absolutely correct. But this should have happened sooner and at DCA.

WayexTDI · Fri Jan 25, 2019 5:19 pm

winginit wrote:
slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
SFO has a private company so they are getting paid as normal , housing prices so high they would be the first to have to call out.

Question about that - Yes SFO uses Covenant Aviation Security, but they're under contract with the TSA. I would assume given they're contractors that they're also not getting paid? Does anyone know for sure?

Usually, companies are better suited to ride periods of non-payment than individuals can.

Also, and some most likely can answer better than I do, I'm assuming the TSA doesn't pay Invoices upon receipt, but after a certain period of time (usually, 45 days or more is similar to private companies). So, the money that needs to come now should be from invoices that were most likely issued prior to the shutdown, money that, in theory, has been funded already.
Can someone chime in?

cledaybuck · Fri Jan 25, 2019 5:22 pm

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
100% agree. Rediculius neither side will compromise! I think we all agree something has to be done, and both parties are acting like 2 year olds. We will see more major issues in the expensive cities like NY, LA, Chicago people need paychecks. SFO has a private company so they are getting paid as normal , housing prices so high they would be the first to have to call out.

SFO might has private security, but this is ATC not TSA in this instance. Something like this could effect there too.

hayzel777 · Fri Jan 25, 2019 5:39 pm

Imagine if the 20% eligible to retire just retire. Total devastation.

Cactusjuba · Fri Jan 25, 2019 5:58 pm

The WH & Congress see the mess at Jet Airways'...

"hold my beer"

atcsundevil · Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:14 pm

Once again, political discussion does not belong in this thread or this forum. Political comments belong in the Non Aviation Forum. Those comments will be removed in this thread, per forum rules, so please stay on topic.

Let's not forget this is an aviation site.

✈️ atcsundevil

maps4ltd · Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:16 pm

I did a quick command find, and I didn't find the words "Democrat" or "Republican."

I'm proud of this thread.

zuckie13 · Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:18 pm

WayexTDI wrote:
winginit wrote:
slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
SFO has a private company so they are getting paid as normal , housing prices so high they would be the first to have to call out.

Question about that - Yes SFO uses Covenant Aviation Security, but they're under contract with the TSA. I would assume given they're contractors that they're also not getting paid? Does anyone know for sure?

Usually, companies are better suited to ride periods of non-payment than individuals can.

Also, and some most likely can answer better than I do, I'm assuming the TSA doesn't pay Invoices upon receipt, but after a certain period of time (usually, 45 days or more is similar to private companies). So, the money that needs to come now should be from invoices that were most likely issued prior to the shutdown, money that, in theory, has been funded already.
Can someone chime in?

It's very common for federal contractors to be funded in advance (like no more than a month or two usually). Contractors can continue to work as long as they have funding and instructions to do so. Once that funding is gone, it can get more interesting. Contractors would have to be asked to work "at risk", basically under an assumption they will eventually be paid. Depending on the size of a company and it's financial situation, it may have to stop paying employees once it's funding runs out.

bob75013 · Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:25 pm

RDUDDJI wrote:
Sadly, long lines at the airport may be what it takes to get our politicians to do what they should have done a month ago. Really sad that it's come to this...

I flew yesterday and had no lines -- on either side.

treetreeseven · Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:48 pm

Can anybody who works in ATC explain what a "work to rule" labor action would look like in practice?

atcsundevil · Fri Jan 25, 2019 7:02 pm

treetreeseven wrote:
Can anybody who works in ATC explain what a "work to rule" labor action would look like in practice?

Controllers in the US are legally prohibited from engaging in any form of work action. NATCA would never endorse such an action, and I have seen no examples of controllers acting on their own accord to implement any sort of slow down.

ParaGoddess · Fri Jan 25, 2019 7:15 pm

RDUDDJI wrote:
Sadly, long lines at the airport may be what it takes to get our politicians to do what they should have done a month ago. Really sad that it's come to this...

Not being bullied, manipulated, and actually enforcing the law, is what we should have done decades ago. Trump is in the crosshairs due to previous lawmakers being spineless, and not addressing the actual issues.

Tack · Fri Jan 25, 2019 7:16 pm

WayexTDI
“Sure some people need to be held accountable, but most likely not those who you're thinking about [staring heavily towards the White House and DC]”

Hopefully I’m misunderstanding this comment, and you’re blaming all the legislative branches. If you are pointing the finger at just one side of the street then of course You’re entitled to your view, just no one cares about it as this is an aviation forum. Not sure why it’s so hard for some to just post about aviation.

WayexTDI · Fri Jan 25, 2019 7:31 pm

Tack wrote:
WayexTDI
“Sure some people need to be held accountable, but most likely not those who you're thinking about [staring heavily towards the White House and DC]”

Hopefully I’m misunderstanding this comment, and you’re blaming all the legislative branches. If you are pointing the finger at just one side of the street then of course You’re entitled to your view, just no one cares about it as this is an aviation forum. Not sure why it’s so hard for some to just post about aviation.

Yeah, you completely misunderstood: White House + DC = politicians (all of them).

I was responding to AWACSooner who said the ATC's who were not showing up for work needed to be held accountable:

I get the frustration on the staffers part...but when their actions impact the lives of millions of travelers each day, there needs to be some accountability.

Those who need to be accountable are the politicians.

AirlineBrat · Fri Jan 25, 2019 8:47 pm

The president just agreed to end the shutdown for 3 weeks. I wonder if these ground stops had any influence on his decision.

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