ETinCaribe
Posts: 470
Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2009 11:57 pm

Re: Ethiopian announces Houston + more USA expansion

Mon Jan 28, 2019 10:16 pm

behramjee wrote:
This is what puzzles me. If ET indeed had the rights it would have been all over it including adding frequency to LFW from Nigeria (where ASKY is limited) or go beyond to destinations like NYC, yet it never did. The open skies allows for such service if the intermediate stop's country allows it, yet we see nothing.


Yes ET can fly LOS-USA-LOS with 5th freedom traffic rights if it submits an application for it as could KQ. However to Canada, neither KQ nor ET have 5th freedom rights via Nigeria.


This is IMMENSELY surprising, I think ET would have been all over this if it could. So there must be something else at play. Like you said, ET/KQ would need to apply, which may mean that theoretically, they could get it but practically, not... ET is already the largest international carrier in Nigeria; apart from China, this is the country for which they have bent backwards to earn their keeps. I have no doubt that they would be flying to the US from LOS. Am I wrong with these assumptions?
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 5741
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

Re: Ethiopian announces Houston + more USA expansion

Mon Jan 28, 2019 10:21 pm

ETinCaribe wrote:
behramjee wrote:
This is what puzzles me. If ET indeed had the rights it would have been all over it including adding frequency to LFW from Nigeria (where ASKY is limited) or go beyond to destinations like NYC, yet it never did. The open skies allows for such service if the intermediate stop's country allows it, yet we see nothing.


Yes ET can fly LOS-USA-LOS with 5th freedom traffic rights if it submits an application for it as could KQ. However to Canada, neither KQ nor ET have 5th freedom rights via Nigeria.


This is IMMENSELY surprising, I think ET would have been all over this if it could. So there must be something else at play. Like you said, ET/KQ would need to apply, which may mean that theoretically, they could get it but practically, not... ET is already the largest international carrier in Nigeria; apart from China, this is the country for which they have bent backwards to earn their keeps. I have no doubt that they would be flying to the US from LOS. Am I wrong with these assumptions?


Maybe the end result is the maximize ASKY connectivity. After all LFW-LOS is a very short flight and this will give ET a chance to serve other destinations as well. If they would launch LFW-LAD, it would cover all bases!
Religion is the root of evil...
 
nomorerjs
Posts: 876
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 10:24 am

Re: Ethiopian announces Houston + more USA expansion

Mon Jan 28, 2019 11:23 pm

We know ORD sucks and is draing cash. Yet ET is increasing flights and cancelled LA.

Posters here love to bash ORD and claim SFO is the holy grail for ET.

I don’t claim this route is making money, but it connects more points west of ORD than west of SFO.

I’m sure BOS and DTW would have been better options, even with no * feed.
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 5741
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

Re: Ethiopian announces Houston + more USA expansion

Mon Jan 28, 2019 11:38 pm

nomorerjs wrote:
We know ORD sucks and is draing cash. Yet ET is increasing flights and cancelled LA.

Posters here love to bash ORD and claim SFO is the holy grail for ET.

I don’t claim this route is making money, but it connects more points west of ORD than west of SFO.

I’m sure BOS and DTW would have been better options, even with no * feed.


Did someone run over your dog or something?
Religion is the root of evil...
 
Freshside3
Posts: 1584
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:11 am

Re: Ethiopian announces Houston + more USA expansion

Tue Jan 29, 2019 12:18 am

behramjee wrote:
This is what puzzles me. If ET indeed had the rights it would have been all over it including adding frequency to LFW from Nigeria (where ASKY is limited) or go beyond to destinations like NYC, yet it never did. The open skies allows for such service if the intermediate stop's country allows it, yet we see nothing.


Sorry but that is an inaccurate statement as for few years ASKY was operating LFW-Nigeria services as follows (all with 5th freedom privileges):

LFW-COO-ABV
LFW-ABV-NIM
LFW-LOS-DLA
LFW-LOS-LBV

They even did LFW-LOS-ABJ for some time before taking it out once HF and W3 became online on this sector.

Had it been confirmed that ET will be flying out of JFK? Or is that press release, wrong?


As per Sabre and Amadeus GDS systems, I am checking July 2019 schedules and it shows daily ADD-EWR only i.e. 4wk via LFW and 3wk via ABJ. The ABJ flight arrives into EWR at 2200 whilst the LFW one does so at 1945.

If anyone knows, it would be you behramjee: are you sure about 5th freedom at LOS/ABV for ET? That is something that AFAIK ET would love to take advantage of but does not have.


Yes ET can fly LOS-USA-LOS with 5th freedom traffic rights if it submits an application for it as could KQ. However to Canada, neither KQ nor ET have 5th freedom rights via Nigeria.

I was surprised that they even did ORD in the first place. Not really that much of a local market for it, at all.


Yes so was I as IAH should have been launched way before ORD and even ABJ-EWR ! ORD definitely is losing heavily for ET.


ORD-ADD would have only worked if they had ATH as the stop, instead of DUB. ET already has DUB-ADD, there are several carriers that fly ORD-DUB already, and minimal local market on ORD-ADD. With a stop in ATH, they could have it all "wired up"...…….they still would have a thru flight ORD-ADD.....Star Hubs at all three airports(UA, A3 and ET feeding the trip).....the local need for ORD-ATH(a much-needed route which didn't exist up until AA decided to put it on)……and there still is a void from ATH to the main part of Africa.

Definitely a missed opportunity for ET. They played their cards totally wrong, when it came to ORD.

IAH will do well, though.
 
berari
Posts: 726
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2016 3:47 pm

Re: Ethiopian announces Houston + more USA expansion

Tue Jan 29, 2019 12:55 am

Freshside3 wrote:
ORD-ADD would have only worked if they had ATH as the stop, instead of DUB. ET already has DUB-ADD, there are several carriers that fly ORD-DUB already, and minimal local market on ORD-ADD. With a stop in ATH, they could have it all "wired up"...…….they still would have a thru flight ORD-ADD.....Star Hubs at all three airports(UA, A3 and ET feeding the trip).....the local need for ORD-ATH(a much-needed route which didn't exist up until AA decided to put it on)……and there still is a void from ATH to the main part of Africa.

Definitely a missed opportunity for ET. They played their cards totally wrong, when it came to ORD.

IAH will do well, though.


Whoa ATH?? Why not Larnaca or Timbuktu?

behramjee wrote:
Yes so was I as IAH should have been launched way before ORD and even ABJ-EWR ! ORD definitely is losing heavily for ET.


Can you expand on the losses at ORD you speak of? What stats are you basing this on and how does that work with the increase in frequency? What am I missing here?
 
ORD2010
Posts: 113
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2013 1:46 pm

Re: Ethiopian announces Houston + more USA expansion

Tue Jan 29, 2019 2:13 am

How is everyone assuming ORD is losing so much money for ET, yet they're adding 2 more weekly frequencies less than a year since it opened, NZ also rumoring to increase frequencies. Why would these carriers grow if they weren't seeing some form of profit? What are extra unprofitable flights bringing to the table? I must be reading something incorrectly... also the stop in DUB is a tech stop, they do not transport pax between the two, so where ever they stop it wouldn't matter.
 
FSDan
Posts: 2481
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:27 pm

Re: Ethiopian announces Houston + more USA expansion

Tue Jan 29, 2019 5:58 am

One thing I'd like to point out is that the article from the OP never specifically mentions that the route will be IAH-LFW-ADD... The exact schedule details aren't known yet, and all the article mentions is that 1) IAH is replacing LAX as a U.S. gateway, and 2) the IAH flight "will operate three times per week to Addis Ababa via West Africa". To me, that doesn't necessarily mean that the stopover point will remain LFW... On the other hand, the article does seem to clearly call out that JFK will be served (via ABJ) in addition to EWR being served via LFW. The JFK flights aren't loaded yet, but airlines often announce new routes before they load them into their schedules.
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
LH658
Posts: 1049
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2016 7:35 am

Re: Ethiopian announces Houston + more USA expansion

Tue Jan 29, 2019 7:23 am

FSDan wrote:
One thing I'd like to point out is that the article from the OP never specifically mentions that the route will be IAH-LFW-ADD... The exact schedule details aren't known yet, and all the article mentions is that 1) IAH is replacing LAX as a U.S. gateway, and 2) the IAH flight "will operate three times per week to Addis Ababa via West Africa". To me, that doesn't necessarily mean that the stopover point will remain LFW... On the other hand, the article does seem to clearly call out that JFK will be served (via ABJ) in addition to EWR being served via LFW. The JFK flights aren't loaded yet, but airlines often announce new routes before they load them into their schedules.


They use to fly to JFK, but switched to EWR, if I recall correctly.
 
soups
Posts: 3247
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2004 6:41 pm

Re: Ethiopian announces Houston + more USA expansion

Tue Jan 29, 2019 12:17 pm

Its a shame not via ACC as they plan to open a new airline here. Instead of ABJ.
Next destinations, Suarabaya, beirut, paris, Accra
 
iadadd
Posts: 256
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2016 10:16 pm

Re: Ethiopian announces Houston + more USA expansion

Tue Jan 29, 2019 1:33 pm

LH658 wrote:
FSDan wrote:
One thing I'd like to point out is that the article from the OP never specifically mentions that the route will be IAH-LFW-ADD... The exact schedule details aren't known yet, and all the article mentions is that 1) IAH is replacing LAX as a U.S. gateway, and 2) the IAH flight "will operate three times per week to Addis Ababa via West Africa". To me, that doesn't necessarily mean that the stopover point will remain LFW... On the other hand, the article does seem to clearly call out that JFK will be served (via ABJ) in addition to EWR being served via LFW. The JFK flights aren't loaded yet, but airlines often announce new routes before they load them into their schedules.


They use to fly to JFK, but switched to EWR, if I recall correctly.


About 3 years ago when they first announced NYC they were planning on flying to JFK, but switched it to EWR a few months before the start date. Thus, ET has never flown to JFK
 
evanb
Posts: 803
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 3:26 pm

Re: Ethiopian announces Houston + more USA expansion

Tue Jan 29, 2019 1:39 pm

behramjee wrote:
My friend I have worked in Lagos with a big airline for four years in a Senior position and also was part of the the NCAA bilaterals committee who met every six months to discuss the various bilateral applications put forward by airlines to expand or adjust their services to Nigeria.

ET has the right to operate 35 flights per week to Nigeria (as of Winter 2017) including tier 2 cities plus beyond fifth freedom rights to USA plus few West African states. Even KQ has the rights to fly to USA via Nigeria if they wanted to.


Thanks for this information, however, it is news to anyone at ET who are under the impression that this isn't available.

behramjee wrote:
Yes ET can fly LOS-USA-LOS with 5th freedom traffic rights if it submits an application for it as could KQ. However to Canada, neither KQ nor ET have 5th freedom rights via Nigeria.


However, this slightly contradicts your earlier statement that they had applied for and had 5th freedom right. Now you're suggesting that they still need to apply, but that it's available.

I'm not doubting you, but the clear impression in Addis is that they don't have it.
 
evanb
Posts: 803
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 3:26 pm

Re: Ethiopian announces Houston + more USA expansion

Tue Jan 29, 2019 1:44 pm

From reading many comments above, there seems to be a significant misunderstanding of ET's business model, and their strategy regarding North American flights. The success of the ET business is their absolutely stellar unit costs, between 30 and 40 percent lower than competitors connecting North America and sub-Saharan Africa (and even the Middle East and South Asia). This staggeringly low unit cost allows them to operate successfully on much lower unit revenues and even load factors than competitors.
 
NOVAIAD
Posts: 51
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2017 5:07 pm

Re: Ethiopian announces Houston + more USA expansion

Tue Jan 29, 2019 1:55 pm

bfitzflyer wrote:
behramjee wrote:
RainerBoeing777 wrote:
In the future, could I consider San Francisco (SFO) as a destination? I think it would be better to fly to SFO than it has to LAX, it seems better strategy to expand to strong Star Alliance Hubs


No you shouldn’t as SFO lacks the demand volume to Africa which LAX had some what. So if LAX couldn’t sustain itself then SFO has no chance.

I foresee ORD being a poor route performer for them too as it’s mainly low yield VFR traffic on this route whilst at least IAD and IAH will have decent premium.


SFO might just do ok, bigger Star hub and lots of money as well as one of the larger Ethiopian/Eritrean populations in US.



Denver is a large Star hub and wealthy people live there? Why no ET flight to Denver? So why would SFO "just do ok" when LAX can't sustain its current ET service? LA has the second largest Ethiopian diaspora in the US (~96,000), and the Bay area isn't even mentioned in talk of US Ethioian/Eritrean diaspora, so I am curious why you think SFO would even be remotely viable?
 
hohd
Posts: 755
Joined: Sat May 17, 2008 1:03 am

Re: Ethiopian announces Houston + more USA expansion

Tue Jan 29, 2019 2:01 pm

Great addition to IAH. ET always has good business United Mileageplus award seats on its flights to/from EWR and ORD.
 
NOVAIAD
Posts: 51
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2017 5:07 pm

Re: Ethiopian announces Houston + more USA expansion

Tue Jan 29, 2019 2:03 pm

LAXdude1023 wrote:
iadadd wrote:
Freshside3 wrote:
SFO and LAX are two different markets. The S.F. Bay Area has a stronger local market for it. Plus SFO has a stronger feed-in with partner UA's hub, whereas feed-in at LAX on UA is a lot weaker.


LAX is definitely the larger market, but SFO has better feed from that could better support the flight. In the future, ET could open SFO and feed from other West Coast destinations such as LAX, SEA, SAN, LAS (all of which have sizable East African communities)


Why can’t IAD, EWR, ORD, or IAH do that? UA flies to all those cities from those markets.


Exactly. I am more familiar with IAD, and LAX, SEA, SAN, and LAS all have early morning arrivals into IAD which make good connections for the mid-morning ET IAD-ADD return flight.
 
NOVAIAD
Posts: 51
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2017 5:07 pm

Re: Ethiopian announces Houston + more USA expansion

Tue Jan 29, 2019 2:18 pm

iadadd wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
iadadd wrote:

LAX is definitely the larger market, but SFO has better feed from that could better support the flight. In the future, ET could open SFO and feed from other West Coast destinations such as LAX, SEA, SAN, LAS (all of which have sizable East African communities)


Why can’t IAD, EWR, ORD, or IAH do that? UA flies to all those cities from those markets.


Fair point, but as the airline continues to grow, it would be of strategic importance to have a West Coast destination



Why is it of strategic importance to have a West Coast destination? Maybe it's not financially viable, and funneling travelers through IAD, ORD or EWR/JFK makes more financial sense for ET.
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 5741
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

Re: Ethiopian announces Houston + more USA expansion

Tue Jan 29, 2019 2:20 pm

NOVAIAD wrote:
bfitzflyer wrote:
behramjee wrote:

No you shouldn’t as SFO lacks the demand volume to Africa which LAX had some what. So if LAX couldn’t sustain itself then SFO has no chance.

I foresee ORD being a poor route performer for them too as it’s mainly low yield VFR traffic on this route whilst at least IAD and IAH will have decent premium.


SFO might just do ok, bigger Star hub and lots of money as well as one of the larger Ethiopian/Eritrean populations in US.



Denver is a large Star hub and wealthy people live there? Why no ET flight to Denver? So why would SFO "just do ok" when LAX can't sustain its current ET service? LA has the second largest Ethiopian diaspora in the US (~96,000), and the Bay area isn't even mentioned in talk of US Ethioian/Eritrean diaspora, so I am curious why you think SFO would even be remotely viable?


The whole "LA has the 2nd largest Ethiopian community" phrase needs to die because its false.

Below is a list of the largest Ethiopian communities in the US per government estimates. Below that is a list of the total African populations and below that is the list of Ethiopian Immigrants by Metro Area that immigrated in 2017.

Ethiopia
1. Washington DC: 53,076 people
2. Minneapolis: 22,302
3. Seattle: 17,573
4. Atlanta: 16,520
5. Dallas: 10889
6. Los Angeles: 9479
7. Las Vegas: 7501
8. San Francisco: 6520
9. Houston: 6285
10. New York: 6021

Africa Total
1. NYC MSA: 257,372 people
2. DC MSA: 202,823 people
3. Dallas MSA: 91,039 people
4. Minneapolis MSA: 87,673 people
5. Atlanta MSA: 87,211 people
6. Houston MSA: 82,623 people
7. Boston MSA: 76,602 people
8. Los Angeles MSA: 73,601 people
9. Philadelphia MSA: 58,203 people
10. Chicago MSA: 55,657 people

Number of Ethiopians that immigrated per metro area in 2017 (it should be pointed out while the two lists above are governmental estimates-accurate with a 5% margin of error, the numbers below are perfect to the single person as the government tracks these very closely)

DC: 2,791
Minneapolis: 1,540
Seattle: 1,128
Atlanta: 779
Dallas: 698
Denver: 656
Las Vegas: 550
Columbus, OH: 359
Boston: 326
Los Angeles: 273
Houston: 269
San Francisco: 267

https://www.dhs.gov/immigration-statist ... rbook/2017
Religion is the root of evil...
 
NOVAIAD
Posts: 51
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2017 5:07 pm

Re: Ethiopian announces Houston + more USA expansion

Tue Jan 29, 2019 2:25 pm

soups wrote:
Its a shame not via ACC as they plan to open a new airline here. Instead of ABJ.


I am wondering if SA flying JHB-ACC-IAD played into their decision. Just spitballing.
 
NOVAIAD
Posts: 51
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2017 5:07 pm

Re: Ethiopian announces Houston + more USA expansion

Tue Jan 29, 2019 2:27 pm

berari wrote:
Freshside3 wrote:
ORD-ADD would have only worked if they had ATH as the stop, instead of DUB. ET already has DUB-ADD, there are several carriers that fly ORD-DUB already, and minimal local market on ORD-ADD. With a stop in ATH, they could have it all "wired up"...…….they still would have a thru flight ORD-ADD.....Star Hubs at all three airports(UA, A3 and ET feeding the trip).....the local need for ORD-ATH(a much-needed route which didn't exist up until AA decided to put it on)……and there still is a void from ATH to the main part of Africa.

Definitely a missed opportunity for ET. They played their cards totally wrong, when it came to ORD.

IAH will do well, though.


Whoa ATH?? Why not Larnaca or Timbuktu?

behramjee wrote:
Yes so was I as IAH should have been launched way before ORD and even ABJ-EWR ! ORD definitely is losing heavily for ET.


Can you expand on the losses at ORD you speak of? What stats are you basing this on and how does that work with the increase in frequency? What am I missing here?


I am curious as well. ORD seems centrally located to serve the needs of the East African diaspora living in the upper Midwest.
 
soups
Posts: 3247
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2004 6:41 pm

Re: Ethiopian announces Houston + more USA expansion

Tue Jan 29, 2019 4:36 pm

NOVAIAD wrote:
soups wrote:
Its a shame not via ACC as they plan to open a new airline here. Instead of ABJ.


I am wondering if SA flying JHB-ACC-IAD played into their decision. Just spitballing.


Last 24hours AWA agreed with SAA to feed the ACC-IAD from LOS/ABV.

Back in march 2018, ET was granted 5th freedom for Accra-Texas as well.
Next destinations, Suarabaya, beirut, paris, Accra
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 17398
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

Re: Ethiopian announces Houston + more USA expansion

Tue Jan 29, 2019 5:31 pm

berari wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
Sure why not. There's no way any of the North American one stops make any money, outside of IAD which maybe breaks even at best.


You've always been about ET's North American routes and performance, how could they then justify the increase in service especially to ORD and IAD? Those of us that have observed ET for long know that not only is it aggressive, but it's also never shy about pulling out, and pull out it does fast. The resources they allocate to each North American route are considerable in terms of crew and aircraft, and they don't seem to be holding back. They're even making YYZ work, let alone the different paths to EWR that don't meet their bank (with ABJ specifically). To the US, they are not bound by slots or rights they must use (thanks to open skies between USA and Ethiopia) so they could easily scrap unprofitable routes yet they continue to expand.

Plenty of airlines run loads of loss making routes for a variety of reasons--for a long time US carriers minted money domestically while losing it all internationally. In any case it stretches credulity to think that ET one stops, with the LF they're getting, and the fares they are getting, come anywhere near close to making money.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
klakzky123
Posts: 651
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2016 4:05 am

Re: Ethiopian announces Houston + more USA expansion

Tue Jan 29, 2019 5:38 pm

Does ASKY have the ability (or plans) to launch a route to Luanda? Seems like that would be a big need for IAH business traffic and would help ET win some contracts. The other key piece would potentially be a tag-on to Port Harcourt. LH and AF have flights to both of those airports and ET's lack of access would presumably limit their ability to win contracts in Houston.

But this is all speculation on my part. I'm sure ET knows what it is doing.
 
berari
Posts: 726
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2016 3:47 pm

Re: Ethiopian announces Houston + more USA expansion

Tue Jan 29, 2019 5:45 pm

NOVAIAD wrote:
I am curious as well. ORD seems centrally located to serve the needs of the East African diaspora living in the upper Midwest.


ORD gives a much better feed for ET than IAD, around 4 times more flights that can connect onto it. It can capture flights from almost everywhere in the US which is far superior than IAD to ADD.

NOVAIAD wrote:
soups wrote:
Its a shame not via ACC as they plan to open a new airline here. Instead of ABJ.


I am wondering if SA flying JHB-ACC-IAD played into their decision. Just spitballing.


Knowing how ET can quickly change plans or even augment existing service, I would not rule out US service via ACC.
 
LH658
Posts: 1049
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2016 7:35 am

Re: Ethiopian announces Houston + more USA expansion

Tue Jan 29, 2019 5:55 pm

klakzky123 wrote:
Does ASKY have the ability (or plans) to launch a route to Luanda? Seems like that would be a big need for IAH business traffic and would help ET win some contracts. The other key piece would potentially be a tag-on to Port Harcourt. LH and AF have flights to both of those airports and ET's lack of access would presumably limit their ability to win contracts in Houston.

But this is all speculation on my part. I'm sure ET knows what it is doing.


That's going to seem hard, as, these companies have been loyal to the Euro 3 carriers from IAH vs switching to ET. ET doesn't even provide First Class cabin, which for instance LH offers and AF as well. Which is important to some aspect.

Though yes if they gain access to SSG, LUD, PHC, and other key african energy markets I can see potentially see this being convincing to these the companies.
 
behramjee
Topic Author
Posts: 4931
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 4:56 am

Re: Ethiopian announces Houston + more USA expansion

Tue Jan 29, 2019 6:31 pm

AF is suspending services to PHC effective IATA S19 and I believe LH did so already. For oil/gas corporates from the West, they have a policy that their employees flights must land/depart PHC before 1830 local time due to security issues.

LAD is very restrictive when it comes to giving bilateral rights to foreign carriers even those from West Africa + you can forget about 5th freedom via LAD being granted to KP-Asky.
 
evanb
Posts: 803
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 3:26 pm

Re: Ethiopian announces Houston + more USA expansion

Tue Jan 29, 2019 7:02 pm

berari wrote:
ORD gives a much better feed for ET than IAD, around 4 times more flights that can connect onto it. It can capture flights from almost everywhere in the US which is far superior than IAD to ADD.


Conceptually yet, but ORD isn't the greatest airport for domestic to international transfers and vice versa. Ethiopian operate from Terminal 5 which doesn't have an airside connection to United's domestic ops. Furthermore, it's not clear now much feed United is willing and able to provide to ET at ORD. United are not generous in the capacity they provide to non-JV partners.
 
iadadd
Posts: 256
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2016 10:16 pm

Re: Ethiopian announces Houston + more USA expansion

Tue Jan 29, 2019 9:35 pm

UA and ET have an OK relationship. Obviously not at the same level as their JV partners, but ET has a relatively extensive codeshare on UA flights out of IAD and I believe recently out of ORD as well. UA/ET have even interlined prior to ET joining Star.

However, one issue I've notice out of ORD is the lack of ease in regards to Domestic to International transfers, given the fact that ET departs out of Terminal 5. In theory, this wouldn't have been too much of a hassle since ORD operates an airside transfer bus; however, that bus starts operating at 10:30 AM which is after ET511's departure to ADD. This means passengers connecting from UA to ET have to exit Terminal 1, go to Terminal 5, and then re-clear security which is quite cumbersome and timely.

Perhaps, UA could allow ET to operate its flight from Terminal 1 ?
 
evanb
Posts: 803
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 3:26 pm

Re: Ethiopian announces Houston + more USA expansion

Tue Jan 29, 2019 9:56 pm

iadadd wrote:
UA and ET have an OK relationship. Obviously not at the same level as their JV partners, but ET has a relatively extensive codeshare on UA flights out of IAD and I believe recently out of ORD as well. UA/ET have even interlined prior to ET joining Star.


It's more complicated than that. Just because they have an OK relationship this says nothing regarding available capacity and price.

iadadd wrote:
However, one issue I've notice out of ORD is the lack of ease in regards to Domestic to International transfers, given the fact that ET departs out of Terminal 5. In theory, this wouldn't have been too much of a hassle since ORD operates an airside transfer bus; however, that bus starts operating at 10:30 AM which is after ET511's departure to ADD. This means passengers connecting from UA to ET have to exit Terminal 1, go to Terminal 5, and then re-clear security which is quite cumbersome and timely.

Perhaps, UA could allow ET to operate its flight from Terminal 1 ?


No, no space. Not even all JV flights operate out of terminal 1.
 
LH658
Posts: 1049
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2016 7:35 am

Re: Ethiopian announces Houston + more USA expansion

Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:05 pm

behramjee wrote:
AF is suspending services to PHC effective IATA S19 and I believe LH did so already. For oil/gas corporates from the West, they have a policy that their employees flights must land/depart PHC before 1830 local time due to security issues.

LAD is very restrictive when it comes to giving bilateral rights to foreign carriers even those from West Africa + you can forget about 5th freedom via LAD being granted to KP-Asky.


Sorry, Why are they suspending? LH still shows FRA - PHC during the summer, arriving in PHC at 6:15 non stop flight, no more via Abuja, only during Spring so far shows via Abuja, with AF as well landing near 7pm.
 
QueenoftheSkies
Posts: 206
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2017 4:48 am

Re: Ethiopian announces Houston + more USA expansion

Wed Jan 30, 2019 12:54 am

LAXdude1023 wrote:
nomorerjs wrote:
We know ORD sucks and is draing cash. Yet ET is increasing flights and cancelled LA.

Posters here love to bash ORD and claim SFO is the holy grail for ET.

I don’t claim this route is making money, but it connects more points west of ORD than west of SFO.

I’m sure BOS and DTW would have been better options, even with no * feed.


Did someone run over your dog or something?


Lmao! That’s awesome
 
Freshside3
Posts: 1584
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:11 am

Re: Ethiopian announces Houston + more USA expansion

Fri Feb 01, 2019 12:54 pm

evanb wrote:
iadadd wrote:
UA and ET have an OK relationship. Obviously not at the same level as their JV partners, but ET has a relatively extensive codeshare on UA flights out of IAD and I believe recently out of ORD as well. UA/ET have even interlined prior to ET joining Star.


It's more complicated than that. Just because they have an OK relationship this says nothing regarding available capacity and price.

iadadd wrote:
However, one issue I've notice out of ORD is the lack of ease in regards to Domestic to International transfers, given the fact that ET departs out of Terminal 5. In theory, this wouldn't have been too much of a hassle since ORD operates an airside transfer bus; however, that bus starts operating at 10:30 AM which is after ET511's departure to ADD. This means passengers connecting from UA to ET have to exit Terminal 1, go to Terminal 5, and then re-clear security which is quite cumbersome and timely.

Perhaps, UA could allow ET to operate its flight from Terminal 1 ?


No, no space. Not even all JV flights operate out of terminal 1.


There is construction going on at Terminal 1 and UA needs to make the most of their own gate space. As a result, the LH flights are split. If I recall correctly, FRA leaves from 1, and MUC leaves from 5. (Previously both left from 1). Maybe once the construction is done, but certainly not now.

And ET is one of the three "ugly stepsisters" of the Star Alliance, as far as UA is concerned. Much like TG, where there is minimal promotion involvement. Or A3, where there are no code-shares between the two carriers at all. UA does not really want to get involved with ET/TG/A3, except for the bare minimum.
 
Freshside3
Posts: 1584
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:11 am

Re: Ethiopian announces Houston + more USA expansion

Fri Feb 01, 2019 1:04 pm

Another dynamic in the ET/East Africa situation. Diplomatic relations between Ethiopia and Eritrea have become normalized, and flights between the two countries have been reinstated. As a result. more people going to Eritrea, since it is easier to get to.
 
evanb
Posts: 803
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 3:26 pm

Re: Ethiopian announces Houston + more USA expansion

Fri Feb 01, 2019 1:11 pm

Freshside3 wrote:
There is construction going on at Terminal 1 and UA needs to make the most of their own gate space. As a result, the LH flights are split. If I recall correctly, FRA leaves from 1, and MUC leaves from 5. (Previously both left from 1). Maybe once the construction is done, but certainly not now.


LX and OS don't use terminal 1 either. They're also TAJV.
 
Freshside3
Posts: 1584
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:11 am

Re: Ethiopian announces Houston + more USA expansion

Fri Feb 01, 2019 1:19 pm

evanb wrote:
Freshside3 wrote:
There is construction going on at Terminal 1 and UA needs to make the most of their own gate space. As a result, the LH flights are split. If I recall correctly, FRA leaves from 1, and MUC leaves from 5. (Previously both left from 1). Maybe once the construction is done, but certainly not now.


LX and OS don't use terminal 1 either. They're also TAJV.


I think it was just LH and NH at T-1, to begin with. All other UA partners, JV or not, were out of 5, except AC(and I'm not sure where they are located nowadays).
 
evanb
Posts: 803
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 3:26 pm

Re: Ethiopian announces Houston + more USA expansion

Fri Feb 01, 2019 1:47 pm

Freshside3 wrote:
I think it was just LH and NH at T-1, to begin with. All other UA partners, JV or not, were out of 5, except AC(and I'm not sure where they are located nowadays).


AC are in 2 with UA Express, but 1 and 2 are connected airside. But I think we agree, ET are way down the list of getting into 1 or 2. I think UA would rather get all of NH, LH, AC, LX, OS, CM, NZ and AV in 1 and 2 before they would think of ET, LO, OZ, SK, TP and TK.
 
dkny
Posts: 576
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 6:00 pm

Re: Ethiopian announces Houston + more USA expansion

Tue Feb 05, 2019 1:59 am

It’s confirmed ABidjan flights will move to JFK

https://allafrica.com/stories/201902040778.html
 
leftcoast8
Posts: 114
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2016 12:59 am

Re: Ethiopian announces Houston + more USA expansion

Tue Feb 05, 2019 3:17 am

Would SEA-ADD work out considering the large Ethiopian diaspora in western Wash., or is Seattle just too far from Addis to make it viable? (Especially considering ET is suspending LAX; Socal is another large Ethiopian center in the United States.)
 
berari
Posts: 726
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2016 3:47 pm

Re: Ethiopian announces Houston + more USA expansion

Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:48 am

leftcoast8 wrote:
Would SEA-ADD work out considering the large Ethiopian diaspora in western Wash., or is Seattle just too far from Addis to make it viable? (Especially considering ET is suspending LAX; Socal is another large Ethiopian center in the United States.)


Western US cities are best served with a connection from its Eastern destinations such as ORD and IAD. If you look at total flight time and ET's model, unless you're looking at O&D traffic at LAX/SEA and ADD, you're better off flying with other airlines such as TK, LH, KL and BA to get to your African destination. Imagine you're in JNB. Would you rather do JNB-ADD-LFW-LAX or JNB-FRA-LAX or JNB-IST-LAX? Especially when you are presented with products that are superior to that of ET's? Unless it can operate nonstop to LAX with high yields and no performance impacts, it'll be a tough sell (and likely unattainable.) There were many low fares available from western US via LAX on ET to ADD and beyond, and these only attracted the price conscious customer: imagine flying YYC-LAX-DUB-ADD-NBO for example, and question the profitability on that.

The Ethiopian diaspora, as far as ET is concerned, play a smaller part to its route opening decisions. 75% of ET's business is connecting traffic at ADD. The Ethiopian diaspora is not committed to flying ET either, and you'd be surprised to see the proportion of Ethiopian vs non-Ethiopian passengers are on ET flights.

An interesting observation if you are at airports late at night in western cities (YVR, YYC, YEG, SEA, LAX, SFO) and if you can spot/recognize Ethiopians, is that you will see quite a few of them boarding UA and AC flights that will connect onto ET flights in YYZ and IAD.

LAX worked while ET had the 5th freedom rights between DUB and LAX. It spent a lot to market that route, and would not have opened LAX without what DUB offered. I have not seen ET market a route like it had with LAX. With the rumored protectionist move by the Irish authorities, it lost those rights and tried out the service via LFW which was not viable.
 
B1168
Posts: 507
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:26 pm

Re: Ethiopian announces Houston + more USA expansion

Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:20 am

May I ask, which plane can they pick to fly the route? Frequency is nearly certainly 3 weekly, but the equippment is another intriguing affair to deal with. Maybe a new 789, or A359?
 
Pbb152
Posts: 634
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2000 2:57 pm

Re: Ethiopian announces Houston + more USA expansion

Fri Apr 05, 2019 6:22 am

Service to IAH has finally been loaded. Will operate via LFW. Schedule as follows:

ET518 ADD2130 – 0005+1LFW0115+1 – 0940+1IAH 787 357
ET519 IAH1630 – 0930+1LFW1030+1 – 1900+1ADD 787 146

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/283731/ethiopian-airlines-adds-houston-service-from-late-june-2019/
 
YoungDon
Posts: 612
Joined: Thu May 31, 2001 9:33 am

Re: Ethiopian announces Houston + more USA expansion

Fri Apr 05, 2019 2:52 pm

Looks like a good schedule for connections out of LFW. Here's to hoping it works out, 3x weekly should be very doable.
 
berari
Posts: 726
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2016 3:47 pm

Re: Ethiopian announces Houston + more USA expansion

Fri Apr 05, 2019 4:01 pm

YoungDon wrote:
Looks like a good schedule for connections out of LFW. Here's to hoping it works out, 3x weekly should be very doable.


LFW doesn't have much in terms of inbound flights from the region. Unless ASKY is gearing up to update its schedule, no short connection out of LFW to IAH exists (I would have expected this flight to be timed with LOS and ABV, at the very least.) Were it a morning flight out of ADD, it could have followed the same pattern as EWR flights, but aircraft would require an overnight in IAH.
 
Pbb152
Posts: 634
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2000 2:57 pm

Re: Ethiopian announces Houston + more USA expansion

Fri Apr 05, 2019 4:40 pm

berari wrote:
YoungDon wrote:
Looks like a good schedule for connections out of LFW. Here's to hoping it works out, 3x weekly should be very doable.


LFW doesn't have much in terms of inbound flights from the region. Unless ASKY is gearing up to update its schedule, no short connection out of LFW to IAH exists (I would have expected this flight to be timed with LOS and ABV, at the very least.) Were it a morning flight out of ADD, it could have followed the same pattern as EWR flights, but aircraft would require an overnight in IAH.


I’m certainly no expert on ET or ASKY ops, but as someone originally from Houston I just don’t think LFW is the best option for the connection point. I’ll be interested to see how this route performs.
 
YoungDon
Posts: 612
Joined: Thu May 31, 2001 9:33 am

Re: Ethiopian announces Houston + more USA expansion

Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:18 pm

berari wrote:
YoungDon wrote:
Looks like a good schedule for connections out of LFW. Here's to hoping it works out, 3x weekly should be very doable.


LFW doesn't have much in terms of inbound flights from the region. Unless ASKY is gearing up to update its schedule, no short connection out of LFW to IAH exists (I would have expected this flight to be timed with LOS and ABV, at the very least.) Were it a morning flight out of ADD, it could have followed the same pattern as EWR flights, but aircraft would require an overnight in IAH.


Yeah taking a quick look at the LFW schedule it does look like most connections will be 3-4 hours. Not awful but not great either.

With that said, for someone traveling IAH-LOS, it gets you there earlier in the day than going through any of the European capitals, though not as early as connecting through Atlanta or JFK on DL. We'll see how it works out, but they certainly have the right airplane for it.
 
YoungDon
Posts: 612
Joined: Thu May 31, 2001 9:33 am

Re: Ethiopian announces Houston + more USA expansion

Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:22 pm

Duplicate
Last edited by YoungDon on Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
YoungDon
Posts: 612
Joined: Thu May 31, 2001 9:33 am

Re: Ethiopian announces Houston + more USA expansion

Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:23 pm

Duplicate please delete
 
berari
Posts: 726
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2016 3:47 pm

Re: Ethiopian announces Houston + more USA expansion

Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:40 pm

Pbb152 wrote:
I’m certainly no expert on ET or ASKY ops, but as someone originally from Houston I just don’t think LFW is the best option for the connection point. I’ll be interested to see how this route performs.


What are alternative options for connection points that you deem better specific to ET?
 
LH658
Posts: 1049
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2016 7:35 am

Re: Ethiopian announces Houston + more USA expansion

Sat Apr 06, 2019 3:46 am

Really wish it was routed via Lagos, Abuja, Port Harcourt, and Accra, though Lome is always welcomed. Pleased to hear it official.
 
1836Sam
Posts: 471
Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2019 6:35 am

Re: Ethiopian announces Houston + more USA expansion

Sat Apr 06, 2019 3:49 am

YoungDon wrote:
berari wrote:
YoungDon wrote:
Looks like a good schedule for connections out of LFW. Here's to hoping it works out, 3x weekly should be very doable.


LFW doesn't have much in terms of inbound flights from the region. Unless ASKY is gearing up to update its schedule, no short connection out of LFW to IAH exists (I would have expected this flight to be timed with LOS and ABV, at the very least.) Were it a morning flight out of ADD, it could have followed the same pattern as EWR flights, but aircraft would require an overnight in IAH.


Yeah taking a quick look at the LFW schedule it does look like most connections will be 3-4 hours. Not awful but not great either.

With that said, for someone traveling IAH-LOS, it gets you there earlier in the day than going through any of the European capitals, though not as early as connecting through Atlanta or JFK on DL. We'll see how it works out, but they certainly have the right airplane for it.


Impossible to optimize both the LFW and ADD connections without a very long ground time at IAH.

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