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DLHAM
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Emirates intends to fly HAM-JFK

Sun Jan 27, 2019 1:15 pm

In a meeting with Hamburgs Major Peter Tschentscher, Sir Tim Clark said that they intend to launch flights from Hamburg to New York again.
Clark says that this route would be profitable. But there is a problem with the market access. Lufthansa avoids open competition with help from the German Department of Transportation. Also similar problems in the US says Clark.

Hamburgs Major wants to talk to the German Transport Minister to find solutions.

https://www.abendblatt.de/hamburg/article216303299/Emirates-plant-Direktflug-Hamburg-New-York-unter-Vorbehalt.html

(Only in german unfortunately and behind a paywall, acess via Google News).

Still they have the 5th Freedom Rights from Germany to the US so there should be no problem.
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Galwayman
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Re: Emirates intends to fly HAM-JFK

Sun Jan 27, 2019 1:32 pm

Did they used to fly this route before? It sounds familiar
 
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Re: Emirates intends to fly HAM-JFK

Sun Jan 27, 2019 1:43 pm

Galwayman wrote:
Did they used to fly this route before? It sounds familiar

They did with a 77W for some time
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Re: Emirates intends to fly HAM-JFK

Sun Jan 27, 2019 1:51 pm

LH748 wrote:
Galwayman wrote:
Did they used to fly this route before? It sounds familiar

They did with a 77W for some time


Competition to LH is always welcome.
 
787X30
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Re: Emirates intends to fly HAM-JFK

Sun Jan 27, 2019 2:21 pm

They did.

But I don't understand STC lash at LH; EK were doing that route (A345), but unable to succeed selling to LH's loyal customers.
 
jumbojet
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Re: Emirates intends to fly HAM-JFK

Sun Jan 27, 2019 2:27 pm

I thought that there had been some sort of 'behind the scenes' agreement with the ME3, the US3 and the US Gov't that said in sum and substance that there would be no more 5th freedom flights, like this one.
 
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Re: Emirates intends to fly HAM-JFK

Sun Jan 27, 2019 2:28 pm

LH is an evil airline (thought I love their product). Time and again they force airlines off Germany city (not FRA or MUC) - US and then they force you to connect in FRA or MUC.

They dont even pretend to want to fly the nonstop route after the competition is gone

The losers? The important German cities (such as Berlin) with limited non stops to the US.

As an American tourist, I find the whole thing hilarious...because no one wants to go to Frankfurt on vacation.
 
stylo777
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Re: Emirates intends to fly HAM-JFK

Sun Jan 27, 2019 2:28 pm

Have the market conditions change after UA dropped the direct HAM-EWR service and EK switched to A380 in HAM, both quite recently?
 
edealinfo
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Re: Emirates intends to fly HAM-JFK

Sun Jan 27, 2019 2:39 pm

DLHAM wrote:
In a meeting with Hamburgs Major Peter Tschentscher, Sir Tim Clark said that they intend to launch flights from Hamburg to New York again.
Clark says that this route would be profitable. But there is a problem with the market access. Lufthansa avoids open competition with help from the German Department of Transportation. Also similar problems in the US says Clark.

Hamburgs Major wants to talk to the German Transport Minister to find solutions.

https://www.abendblatt.de/hamburg/article216303299/Emirates-plant-Direktflug-Hamburg-New-York-unter-Vorbehalt.html

(Only in german unfortunately and behind a paywall, acess via Google News).

Still they have the 5th Freedom Rights from Germany to the US so there should be no problem.


EK would be stupid to try to resurrect this route given the political implications, regardless of whether the route is profitable or not. They should wait for 2 years until the US gets a new President.
 
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Re: Emirates intends to fly HAM-JFK

Sun Jan 27, 2019 2:41 pm

jumbojet wrote:
I thought that there had been some sort of 'behind the scenes' agreement with the ME3, the US3 and the US Gov't that said in sum and substance that there would be no more 5th freedom flights, like this one.


Yes there was so this isn't happening at least for another two years. If HAM was smart they would throw some money at one of the US3 to start service there. If UA can't make EWR-HAM work being a LH partner then it's going to be a difficult sell for someone else to fly it.
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edealinfo
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Re: Emirates intends to fly HAM-JFK

Sun Jan 27, 2019 2:54 pm

On a different note does EK currently fly DXB - Hamburg?
 
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Re: Emirates intends to fly HAM-JFK

Sun Jan 27, 2019 3:04 pm

Can someone explain why Germany's second-largest city has no direct flights with north America?
 
fraT
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Re: Emirates intends to fly HAM-JFK

Sun Jan 27, 2019 3:24 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
LH is an evil airline (thought I love their product). Time and again they force airlines off Germany city (not FRA or MUC) - US and then they force you to connect in FRA or MUC.

They dont even pretend to want to fly the nonstop route after the competition is gone

The losers? The important German cities (such as Berlin) with limited non stops to the US.

As an American tourist, I find the whole thing hilarious...because no one wants to go to Frankfurt on vacation.


Hm, every time I am going to Heidelberg or Ruedesheim, both are full of American tourists. So the city of Frankfurt might not attract that many leisure tourists, the area around certainly does.
 
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Re: Emirates intends to fly HAM-JFK

Sun Jan 27, 2019 3:25 pm

Didn't DL fly JFK-HAM at one time or was it ATL-HAM?
 
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DLHAM
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Re: Emirates intends to fly HAM-JFK

Sun Jan 27, 2019 3:30 pm

stylo777 wrote:
Have the market conditions change after UA dropped the direct HAM-EWR service and EK switched to A380 in HAM, both quite recently?


Hamburg - New York is a 120.000 local passengers a year market without any service right now. 7th largest EU City, largest EU City which is no capital and among the highest GDP per Capital.

klm617 wrote:
If UA can't make EWR-HAM work being a LH partner then it's going to be a difficult sell for someone else to fly it.


United made some mistakes, the biggest of them changing the Route to seasonal. A seasonal flight does not work in this market.
American is not really strong in Germany and Delta feels they serve Germany enough with five cities in their schedule. On the other hand both ATL and JFK to HAM on Delta would be promising, they served Hamburg for a long time in the past.

edealinfo wrote:
On a different note does EK currently fly DXB - Hamburg?


Yes they do, twice daily -- one 777 and one A380. Started in early 2006.
Last edited by DLHAM on Sun Jan 27, 2019 3:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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C010T3
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Re: Emirates intends to fly HAM-JFK

Sun Jan 27, 2019 3:30 pm

gunnerman wrote:
Can someone explain why Germany's second-largest city has no direct flights with north America?


Well, it's only the second largest city-proper, not metro area.

I know the comparison is not fair, because Hamburg is a really important city, but San Antonio is seventh largest city proper of the USA, but I don't see many complaining that SAT handles too fee passengers for its potential.

The development at HAM is result of the SPD-dominated political landscape that have controlled the city for years. The whole transportation infrastructure of the city is bursting at the seams and there is no concept for the airport.

It could be such a development driver to the entire North of Germany, but there is no vision. Instead, the city government prefers discussing about a new office tower.
Last edited by C010T3 on Sun Jan 27, 2019 3:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
xwb777
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Re: Emirates intends to fly HAM-JFK

Sun Jan 27, 2019 3:30 pm

edealinfo wrote:
On a different note does EK currently fly DXB - Hamburg?


yes. They have 2 daily flights to HAM. An A380 and a B77W
 
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DLHAM
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Re: Emirates intends to fly HAM-JFK

Sun Jan 27, 2019 3:35 pm

bfitzflyer wrote:
Didn't DL fly JFK-HAM at one time or was it ATL-HAM?


Delta took over JFK-HAM from PanAm in 1991 and served the Route until late 1995.
They served ATL-HAM from 1989-1995 and 1998-2000.

All this in various routings.

ATL-LGW-HAM
ATL-HAM-TXL
ATL-HAM

JFK-HAM
JFK-AMS-HAM
ATL-HAM-CPH-JFK-CPH-HAM-ATL

Mostly 767, the ATL via LGW (1989-1991) was L1011 then switched to nonstop 767.

Also AA served HAM, NW, LTU and LH with HAM-USA flights as well. And of course PanAm!
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klm617
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Re: Emirates intends to fly HAM-JFK

Sun Jan 27, 2019 3:41 pm

DLHAM wrote:
bfitzflyer wrote:
Didn't DL fly JFK-HAM at one time or was it ATL-HAM?


Delta took over JFK-HAM from PanAm in 1991 and served the Route until late 1995.
They served ATL-HAM from 1989-1995 and 1998-2000.

All this in various routings.

ATL-LGW-HAM
ATL-HAM-TXL
ATL-HAM

JFK-HAM
JFK-AMS-HAM
ATL-HAM-CPH-JFK-CPH-HAM-ATL

Mostly 767, the ATL via LGW (1989-1991) was L1011 then switched to nonstop 767.

Also AA served HAM, NW, LTU and LH with HAM-USA flights as well. And of course PanAm!


This would be a great 757 route from either JFK or DTW.
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Re: Emirates intends to fly HAM-JFK

Sun Jan 27, 2019 3:52 pm

bfitzflyer wrote:
Didn't DL fly JFK-HAM at one time or was it ATL-HAM?

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Re: Emirates intends to fly HAM-JFK

Sun Jan 27, 2019 4:15 pm

Maybe a dumb question but how/why did EK ever get 5th freedom rights to fly EU-US? Makes zero sense why anyone other than EK would be in favor of that.
 
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DLHAM
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Re: Emirates intends to fly HAM-JFK

Sun Jan 27, 2019 4:36 pm

9w748capt wrote:
Maybe a dumb question but how/why did EK ever get 5th freedom rights to fly EU-US? Makes zero sense why anyone other than EK would be in favor of that.


AFAIK in the 70s Lufthansa wanted to sell tickets from Dubai - where they had to make fuel to stops these days - to Southeast Asia. They made an agreement with the UAE to get these rights, in return they granted 5th freedom rights from Germany for the UAE.
At this time, Emirates didnt even exist and I am sure LH laughed their ass off.
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Re: Emirates intends to fly HAM-JFK

Sun Jan 27, 2019 4:47 pm

klm617 wrote:
DLHAM wrote:
bfitzflyer wrote:
Didn't DL fly JFK-HAM at one time or was it ATL-HAM?


Delta took over JFK-HAM from PanAm in 1991 and served the Route until late 1995.
They served ATL-HAM from 1989-1995 and 1998-2000.

All this in various routings.

ATL-LGW-HAM
ATL-HAM-TXL
ATL-HAM

JFK-HAM
JFK-AMS-HAM
ATL-HAM-CPH-JFK-CPH-HAM-ATL

Mostly 767, the ATL via LGW (1989-1991) was L1011 then switched to nonstop 767.

Also AA served HAM, NW, LTU and LH with HAM-USA flights as well. And of course PanAm!


This would be a great 757 route from either JFK or DTW.


HAM-DTW on a 757 would be great if you wanted unplanned winter fuel stops, sure. Passengers love unreliability. https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/united- ... 015-a.html
 
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Re: Emirates intends to fly HAM-JFK

Sun Jan 27, 2019 5:39 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
klm617 wrote:
DLHAM wrote:

Delta took over JFK-HAM from PanAm in 1991 and served the Route until late 1995.
They served ATL-HAM from 1989-1995 and 1998-2000.

All this in various routings.

ATL-LGW-HAM
ATL-HAM-TXL
ATL-HAM

JFK-HAM
JFK-AMS-HAM
ATL-HAM-CPH-JFK-CPH-HAM-ATL

Mostly 767, the ATL via LGW (1989-1991) was L1011 then switched to nonstop 767.

Also AA served HAM, NW, LTU and LH with HAM-USA flights as well. And of course PanAm!


This would be a great 757 route from either JFK or DTW.


HAM-DTW on a 757 would be great if you wanted unplanned winter fuel stops, sure. Passengers love unreliability. https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/united- ... 015-a.html


First of all DTW is not a delay prone airport where as the NYC area is also NW regularly flew the 757 on DTW-AMS/LGW/FRA/BRU/DUS with no issues that I know of. Chances of Delta operating HAM year round are slim anyway so that would be a nonissue.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
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DLHAM
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Re: Emirates intends to fly HAM-JFK

Sun Jan 27, 2019 6:37 pm

klm617 wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
klm617 wrote:

This would be a great 757 route from either JFK or DTW.


HAM-DTW on a 757 would be great if you wanted unplanned winter fuel stops, sure. Passengers love unreliability. https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/united- ... 015-a.html


First of all DTW is not a delay prone airport where as the NYC area is also NW regularly flew the 757 on DTW-AMS/LGW/FRA/BRU/DUS with no issues that I know of. Chances of Delta operating HAM year round are slim anyway so that would be a nonissue.


Why are the chances slim? Hamburg is not Hannover or Nuremberg.
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Re: Emirates intends to fly HAM-JFK

Sun Jan 27, 2019 8:01 pm

edealinfo wrote:
DLHAM wrote:
In a meeting with Hamburgs Major Peter Tschentscher, Sir Tim Clark said that they intend to launch flights from Hamburg to New York again.
Clark says that this route would be profitable. But there is a problem with the market access. Lufthansa avoids open competition with help from the German Department of Transportation. Also similar problems in the US says Clark.

Hamburgs Major wants to talk to the German Transport Minister to find solutions.

https://www.abendblatt.de/hamburg/article216303299/Emirates-plant-Direktflug-Hamburg-New-York-unter-Vorbehalt.html

(Only in german unfortunately and behind a paywall, acess via Google News).

Still they have the 5th Freedom Rights from Germany to the US so there should be no problem.


EK would be stupid to try to resurrect this route given the political implications, regardless of whether the route is profitable or not. They should wait for 2 years until the US gets a new President.


Why Trump and the UAE has good ties, especially in business.
 
nomorerjs
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Re: Emirates intends to fly HAM-JFK

Sun Jan 27, 2019 8:10 pm

DLHAM wrote:
klm617 wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:

HAM-DTW on a 757 would be great if you wanted unplanned winter fuel stops, sure. Passengers love unreliability. https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/united- ... 015-a.html


First of all DTW is not a delay prone airport where as the NYC area is also NW regularly flew the 757 on DTW-AMS/LGW/FRA/BRU/DUS with no issues that I know of. Chances of Delta operating HAM year round are slim anyway so that would be a nonissue.


Why are the chances slim? Hamburg is not Hannover or Nuremberg.


As usual, a thread that has nothing to do about DTW turns into a thread about DTW. Never ending.
 
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Re: Emirates intends to fly HAM-JFK

Sun Jan 27, 2019 8:23 pm

nomorerjs wrote:
As usual, a thread that has nothing to do about DTW turns into a thread about DTW. Never ending.
Irrelevant.
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UPNYGuy
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Re: Emirates intends to fly HAM-JFK

Sun Jan 27, 2019 8:28 pm

LH658 wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
DLHAM wrote:
In a meeting with Hamburgs Major Peter Tschentscher, Sir Tim Clark said that they intend to launch flights from Hamburg to New York again.
Clark says that this route would be profitable. But there is a problem with the market access. Lufthansa avoids open competition with help from the German Department of Transportation. Also similar problems in the US says Clark.

Hamburgs Major wants to talk to the German Transport Minister to find solutions.

https://www.abendblatt.de/hamburg/article216303299/Emirates-plant-Direktflug-Hamburg-New-York-unter-Vorbehalt.html

(Only in german unfortunately and behind a paywall, acess via Google News).

Still they have the 5th Freedom Rights from Germany to the US so there should be no problem.


EK would be stupid to try to resurrect this route given the political implications, regardless of whether the route is profitable or not. They should wait for 2 years until the US gets a new President.


Why Trump and the UAE has good ties, especially in business.


That’s exactly why. It would look like a political deal in favor of the UAE, at the expense of the EU.
 
787X30
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Re: Emirates intends to fly HAM-JFK

Sun Jan 27, 2019 8:46 pm

9w748capt wrote:
Maybe a dumb question but how/why did EK ever get 5th freedom rights to fly EU-US? Makes zero sense why anyone other than EK would be in favor of that.

EK has fifth freedom from certain EU member states, not the EU per se. An EU-VAE-bilat remains to be negotiated.

DLHAM wrote:
AFAIK in the 70s Lufthansa wanted ...

LH started operating to the VAE in 1976, as terminators to DXB and AUH, till 1982. Far east services were not even touching the VAE from the very start in 1959 to 1982, they were running predominantly via CAI, DHA, KWI, KHI, DEL, BOM, BKK in varying combos. From Feb 82 to Dec 89, limited service from the VAE to Aussie was put in place (roughly 2/7 each way), with EK being founded in 1985. At the time, Dubai felt underserved by GF, so was lobbying for service by anybody coming along. (KL was much more commited to DXB to beyond.) LH's VAE stop to Aussie was the very first victim to the 744's superior range as early as 89, with SIN and KUL going nonstop for the first time.
 
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Re: Emirates intends to fly HAM-JFK

Sun Jan 27, 2019 8:58 pm

787X30 wrote:
LH started operating to the VAE in 1976, as terminators to DXB and AUH, till 1982. Far east services were not even touching the VAE from the very start in 1959 to 1982, they were running predominantly via CAI, DHA, KWI, KHI, DEL, BOM, BKK in varying combos. From Feb 82 to Dec 89, limited service from the VAE to Aussie was put in place (roughly 2/7 each way), with EK being founded in 1985. At the time, Dubai felt underserved by GF, so was lobbying for service by anybody coming along. (KL was much more commited to DXB to beyond.) LH's VAE stop to Aussie was the very first victim to the 744's superior range as early as 89, with SIN and KUL going nonstop for the first time.


Very interesting, thanks a lot for the Info!
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Re: Emirates intends to fly HAM-JFK

Sun Jan 27, 2019 9:10 pm

Now that UA has left HAM, perhaps EK can make it work but HAM-JFK on the A380 would be overkill, and the late flight on the 77W would only cater to O&D passengers. Personally, I'd love a resurrection of HAM-ATL by DL on an A330, or maybe AA trying their chances at flying to HAM from either DFW or MIA on the 767. Whether it's economically viable or not, is obviously a different matter. You could start off e.g. with twice or thrice weekly.
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Re: Emirates intends to fly HAM-JFK

Sun Jan 27, 2019 9:17 pm

From what friends at the DOT have told me, no one ever agreed that EK would suspend 5th freedom rights. They just stated in the meeting, at that time, there were no plans to extend their rights to use 5th freedom. It was never put in contract, was never made party to any agreement.
xx
 
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Re: Emirates intends to fly HAM-JFK

Sun Jan 27, 2019 9:30 pm

usxguy wrote:
It was never put in contract, was never made party to any agreement.

Thanks.
 
FSDan
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Re: Emirates intends to fly HAM-JFK

Sun Jan 27, 2019 9:53 pm

I could see EK moving their existing DXB-MXP-JFK to DXB-HAM-JFK, and flying it on the 77W rather than the 388. That, I think, would be somewhat viable. JFK-MXP has 5 carriers on it right now (with additional indirect competition from UA at EWR) and EK can't be doing all that well with their late night departure... Meanwhile, HAM-U.S. has no nonstop flight, and EK could use B6 at JFK to provide connections from other major U.S. cities to HAM.
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edealinfo
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Re: Emirates intends to fly HAM-JFK

Sun Jan 27, 2019 9:57 pm

LH658 wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
DLHAM wrote:
Why Trump and the UAE have good ties, especially in business.


That's when Trump is in bed with them in business. Can you indicate why you think this Hamburg - New York deal would get "in bed"?
 
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Re: Emirates intends to fly HAM-JFK

Sun Jan 27, 2019 9:59 pm

FSDan wrote:
I could see EK moving their existing DXB-MXP-JFK to DXB-HAM-JFK, and flying it on the 77W rather than the 388. That, I think, would be somewhat viable. JFK-MXP has 5 carriers on it right now (with additional indirect competition from UA at EWR) and EK can't be doing all that well with their late night departure... Meanwhile, HAM-U.S. has no nonstop flight, and EK could use B6 at JFK to provide connections from other major U.S. cities to HAM.


Milan is the #1 business center in Italy and supposedly they are doing good on the MXP-JFK route. Why would they want to give up a good thing?
 
FSDan
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Re: Emirates intends to fly HAM-JFK

Sun Jan 27, 2019 10:29 pm

edealinfo wrote:
FSDan wrote:
I could see EK moving their existing DXB-MXP-JFK to DXB-HAM-JFK, and flying it on the 77W rather than the 388. That, I think, would be somewhat viable. JFK-MXP has 5 carriers on it right now (with additional indirect competition from UA at EWR) and EK can't be doing all that well with their late night departure... Meanwhile, HAM-U.S. has no nonstop flight, and EK could use B6 at JFK to provide connections from other major U.S. cities to HAM.


Milan is the #1 business center in Italy and supposedly they are doing good on the MXP-JFK route. Why would they want to give up a good thing?


If JFK-MXP is really doing well for them, then that's another matter. Regardless of Milan being the business center of Italy, I'm wondering how many business passengers EK gets... DL/AZ offer the only multi-daily-departure schedule between the two cities and have stronger frequent flier bases on both ends of the route. UA has the biggest hub in the NYC area and has plenty of connections that can supplement the O&D. AA is well-established with business travelers in NYC because of their strong offering in the most important markets like JFK-LAX and JFK-LHR. And EK arguably has the worst schedule of any airline on JFK-MXP with an 11pm departure. The only airline I'd expect to be doing worse is Air Italy.

But that's all just what I'd expect based on the market positions of all the airlines, and I could well be wrong on how this route actually performs for EK...
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Re: Emirates intends to fly HAM-JFK

Sun Jan 27, 2019 11:04 pm

edealinfo wrote:
On a different note does EK currently fly DXB - Hamburg?

Yes twice daily including 1x 777 1x A380
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aviationaware
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Re: Emirates intends to fly HAM-JFK

Mon Jan 28, 2019 12:05 am

1) The last time they tried this route, flights were rather empty(ish).
2) Hamburg is a Star Alliance bastion.
3) If United can't make it work, as a Star carrier, then Emirates surely can't - even if United made unique mistakes of their own.
4) With Easyjet having closed their Hamburg base, Emirates will not be able to get connecting traffic in, relying solely on O/D.
5) Looking at the relatively few frequencies LH is running to New York, the demand throughout Germany does not appear to be that big. Considering you meet almost exclusively Germans at tourist hotspots such as on top the Empire State Building, most of the German demand seems to be low yielding tourists. Anecdotal evidence.
 
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Re: Emirates intends to fly HAM-JFK

Mon Jan 28, 2019 12:05 am

Can any of the EK fanboys provide info on EK’s performance on The jfk mxp route?
 
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Re: Emirates intends to fly HAM-JFK

Mon Jan 28, 2019 12:10 am

edealinfo wrote:
Can any of the EK fanboys provide info on EK’s performance on The jfk mxp route?


Not an EK fanboy, but loads on that sector for Emirates are excellent and considering the average fare (although across all carriers, but still a good indicator) on that route is higher than for example CDG-JFK, AMS-JFK or FCO-JFK, the yields can't be too shabby either.
 
Airlinerdude
Posts: 112
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 3:07 am

Re: Emirates intends to fly HAM-JFK

Mon Jan 28, 2019 12:22 am

edealinfo wrote:
Can any of the EK fanboys provide info on EK’s performance on The jfk mxp route?


According to the DOT data for Q1 and Q2 of 2018 on EK:

MXP - JFK averaged a 60.2% LF
JFK - MXP averaged a 61.2% LF

*Assumes a 429Y configuration flown everyday.

From the information I have, F and J have higher LFs, with the Y cabin bringing the average LF down.
 
mjoelnir
Posts: 8363
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:06 pm

Re: Emirates intends to fly HAM-JFK

Mon Jan 28, 2019 12:29 am

The main reason for Hamburg having no New York connections, are JVs and alliances that stifle competition. Regarding population, City over 1,8 million and metro ca. 5.3 million (double of San Antonio to answer one poster here). The last few years the economy in Hamburg has been booming. Just for fun, Hamburg is the German city with the highest number of Millionaires.

It needs an airline like Emirates to start such flights, the big European and USA airlines are avoiding competition.
 
User avatar
eta unknown
Posts: 2362
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2001 5:03 am

Re: Emirates intends to fly HAM-JFK

Mon Jan 28, 2019 12:42 am

787X30 wrote:
9w748capt wrote:
Maybe a dumb question but how/why did EK ever get 5th freedom rights to fly EU-US? Makes zero sense why anyone other than EK would be in favor of that.

EK has fifth freedom from certain EU member states, not the EU per se. An EU-VAE-bilat remains to be negotiated.

DLHAM wrote:
AFAIK in the 70s Lufthansa wanted ...

LH started operating to the VAE in 1976, as terminators to DXB and AUH, till 1982. Far east services were not even touching the VAE from the very start in 1959 to 1982, they were running predominantly via CAI, DHA, KWI, KHI, DEL, BOM, BKK in varying combos. From Feb 82 to Dec 89, limited service from the VAE to Aussie was put in place (roughly 2/7 each way), with EK being founded in 1985. At the time, Dubai felt underserved by GF, so was lobbying for service by anybody coming along. (KL was much more commited to DXB to beyond.) LH's VAE stop to Aussie was the very first victim to the 744's superior range as early as 89, with SIN and KUL going nonstop for the first time.

From 1986 to the introduction of the 744's, LH SYD/MEL flights did not transit DXB- the routing was FRA-BOM-KUL-MEL-SYD. BOM stop eliminated with 744's. Then the horrible Condor 767 experiment before the route closed: FRA-BKK-SYD with a technical stop in SHJ on the return flight only.
 
EarlyLateORD
Posts: 114
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2017 11:34 pm

Re: Emirates intends to fly HAM-JFK

Mon Jan 28, 2019 12:52 am

mjoelnir wrote:
The main reason for Hamburg having no New York connections, are JVs and alliances that stifle competition. Regarding population, City over 1,8 million and metro ca. 5.3 million (double of San Antonio to answer one poster here). The last few years the economy in Hamburg has been booming. Just for fun, Hamburg is the German city with the highest number of Millionaires.

It needs an airline like Emirates to start such flights, the big European and USA airlines are avoiding competition.


My understanding is that MXP-JFK is struggling on most carriers. Simply too much capacity. I flew the route with my wife and young son in May and the AA 772 was maybe 65% full.

Adam
 
J343
Posts: 238
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 3:40 am

Re: Emirates intends to fly HAM-JFK

Mon Jan 28, 2019 4:10 am

5th freedom. Hmmm. I wonder how AAB is gonna respond to this. After all, he is being accused of breaching conditions set by the US Government with the recent attacks on Air Italy's expansion in the US
 
tpaewr
Posts: 695
Joined: Sat May 19, 2001 9:01 am

Re: Emirates intends to fly HAM-JFK

Mon Jan 28, 2019 4:37 am

I recall the first time EK flew this everyone predicted they would run CO out of town.

Then in the end it was EK that left. It will be interesting to see if the UA/LH JV responds to EK return.

I would like to hope they will. But UA has never been as aggressive as CO was.
 
Blerg
Posts: 2046
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Emirates intends to fly HAM-JFK

Mon Jan 28, 2019 5:10 am

Why are some uncertain of this route? If EK can make ATH-EWR work then I am sure HAM will turn out just fine. Emirates is way more popular today than it was about a decade ago when they operated these flights out of Hamburg. I might be wrong but I think that back then they even operated a single daily flight.

Hamburg is a big and wealthy city that isn't exactly 'close' to FRA or MUC. If EK thinks they can make it work then let them. Just because UA abandoned this market doesn't mean others can't make it work.
 
aviationaware
Posts: 2812
Joined: Mon May 19, 2014 12:02 pm

Re: Emirates intends to fly HAM-JFK

Mon Jan 28, 2019 5:19 am

edealinfo wrote:
EK would be stupid to try to resurrect this route given the political implications, regardless of whether the route is profitable or not. They should wait for 2 years until the US gets a new President.


Care to elaborate what the hell Donald Trump has to do with this route discussion? I guess we won't hear back from you so consider this a rhetoric question.

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