Hello everybody. First, I want to make clear that I’m in no way questioning the performance of this crew, I’m only asking about their timing to perform certain steps on the go around that seems to be different compared with other go arounds.
Searching videos in YT you can see that usually the crews take less than 20 or 30 seconds to get the gear up and begin to retract flaps from the landing configuration, while in this case they only did that after 1 minute and 10 seconds, so I’m curious about it.

They decided to go around after a windshear alert, and the workload to avoid the windshear and hail seems to be heavy, so maybe that could explain their timing ?

http://youtu.be/9c0u82_YmCE

Any comment will be appreciated.

Rgds.
G.

You fly the plane first. Landing gear being down isn’t going to keep you from flying the plane.

To me it appears they are trying to get stable flight first, then go after a climb when he puts the gear up. You can here the hail hitting the plane, then they start doing other cleanup. It’s not really a lot of time transpiring.

As far as I know, it's procedure not to change the config when windshear is encountered - perhaps because it is a high workload scenario or the fact that it can make the situation worse. Retracting the flaps will likely increase stall speed.

You don’t change configuration of the airplane until you’re stabilized and out of the wind shear conditions.

I thought bringing up the landing gear was part of flying the aircraft. Isn't the goal to remove drag for better climbing performance ? Of course if you're not really close to the ground and slow, it's not going to be decisive.

edit : now seen comments about windshear, that makes sense.

I recall reading somewhere that some pilots leave the landing gear down for a while when they go-around after encountering wind shear. The thought is that--should the plane lose lift and crash--the landing gear would absorb some of the impact. This could be completely off-base, but I thought I'd pass along.

It's standard to not change the configuration during recovery of a wind shear event.

If anything, I would've turned off the wipers. You leave the gear down in a windshear escape maneuver because you're potentially losing a lot of airspeed close to the ground.

Aesma wrote:

I thought bringing up the landing gear was part of flying the aircraft. Isn't the goal to remove drag for better climbing performance ? Of course if you're not really close to the ground and slow, it's not going to be decisive.

Not changing configuration is standard practice in wind shear. One, you don’t want to treat windshear like a normal go-around because a reduction in flap setting can cause loss of lift, which in wind shear could be disasterous. Gear Retraction also causes a significant increase in drag when the gear doors are open. Therefore, you focus on maintaining the wind shear guidance and not changing any configuration until clear of the shear. Two, IF this windshear does cause an impact with the ground, wouldn’t you rather have those big struts under the airplane to absorb some of the impact with the ground?

in a windshear escape maneuver, the aircraft configuration is not changed until you are clear of the windshear. It is published Boeing and Airbus procedure. Obviously, most people who have given their opinion have failed to realize when the gear handle is moved to the up procedure, there is an increase in drag as the gear doors open with the gear down. You don't want that at all, you do want to add any additional drag that is whey the gear stays down. The flaps are selected to the go around flap position when the aircraft is out of the wind shear because you don't want to increase the stall speed and increase the chances of a stall. Also, you minimize the requirement for trim changes and can concentrate on flying the aircraft.

Someone commented under the video on Youtube that the captain explicitly says to "keep configuration", I guess it's at 0:16. There must be a reason other than just them being busy flying.

Before the gear comes up the gear doors must go down. This increases drag initially.

Others have correctly commented on the configuration change and the response for a windshear escape maneuver.

The image isn't clear, but there's a lot of red on that display, and the fact that they're in the hail shortly after the encounter indicates a significant storm.

What was interesting is that the captain, who was flying, called for the gear twice, still had no response, and then moved it himself.

That shouldn't have happened. It suggests that the F/O was either behind the curve or overwhelmed, or both.

Can someone identify the aircraft? It somewhat looks like a 737 to me.

WayexTDI wrote:

Can someone identify the aircraft? It somewhat looks like a 737 to me.

That’s a 737NG.

747Whale wrote:

Others have correctly commented on the configuration change and the response for a windshear escape maneuver.

The image isn't clear, but there's a lot of red on that display, and the fact that they're in the hail shortly after the encounter indicates a significant storm.

What was interesting is that the captain, who was flying, called for the gear twice, still had no response, and then moved it himself.

That shouldn't have happened. It suggests that the F/O was either behind the curve or overwhelmed, or both.

Yeah hard to tell due to the low res but that wx radar looks like a lot of fun!

WayexTDI wrote:

Can someone identify the aircraft? It somewhat looks like a 737 to me.

If i’m not mistaken this is the cockpit of a 738.
The title of the video only says 737 but not the specific version.

Thanks to all of you for your very informative comments.

G.

Textbook 737 wind shear escape maneuver there... “Maintain configuration”. It amazes me that some on here think that guy is just improvising as he goes along. That procedure is THE only approved and mandated SOP for just about every airline out there when encountering wind shear in a Boeing jet. The only thing I see that went wrong was that the jump seater posted the video for all of the ill informed public to critique.

Gonzalo wrote:

WayexTDI wrote:

Can someone identify the aircraft? It somewhat looks like a 737 to me.

If i’m not mistaken this is the cockpit of a 738.
The title of the video only says 737 but not the specific version.

Thanks to all of you for your very informative comments.

G.

D'oh!!! Didn't see that...

So, correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the 737 lack the wheelwell doors that create the aforementioned extra drag when retracting the landing gear?

Nevertheless, as a private pilot (not rated for retractable gear though), the first thing you're taught is: aviate, navigate, communicate. Seems to my non-professional eye he was just doing that: aviate first, and his hands seemed too full to have to worry about retracting the landing gear.

Just my $0.02.

A few things -

In a 737 (unlike many aircraft), there is no increase in drag when you retract the gear. There are no additional gear doors that deploy.

While the W/S escape maneuver does specify not to change the a/c configuration - in this case they appear to be responding to a Predicted Wind Shear Alert - as opposed to an actual W/S. "Go Around - WS Ahead" is a function of the PWS system, and is different than an actual WS alert "Windshear Windshear Windshear". The procedure is a normal Go around (gear and flaps get retracted) and be prepared to perform the WS escape maneuver.

It seems nobody mentioned it, but this is a Gol 737 probably approaching GRU (i've heard it about being GRU somewhere. Sorry, I can't confirm this).
The captain is speaking in Portuguese and telling his co-pilot to "keep the settings" of the plane (in Portuguese: mantém a configuração).
In other words - going around without retracting flaps or gear.

Anybody else notice how in this video, after the captain "firewalls" the throttles and moves his right hand back to the yoke at around 0:15, the throttle moves back? I would have thought that A/T would be disengaged at that point, but it's hard to see if he pushed the A/T button.

barney captain wrote:

A few things -

In a 737 (unlike many aircraft), there is no increase in drag when you retract the gear. There are no additional gear doors that deploy.

While the W/S escape maneuver does specify not to change the a/c configuration - in this case they appear to be responding to a Predicted Wind Shear Alert - as opposed to an actual W/S. "Go Around - WS Ahead" is a function of the PWS system, and is different than an actual WS alert "Windshear Windshear Windshear". The procedure is a normal Go around (gear and flaps get retracted) and be prepared to perform the WS escape maneuver.

Thank you for your clarification, I’m sure many of us here really appreciate this. One of the things that call my attention in the video is the sound of a warning ( I thought it was a configuration alarm giving the warning of the throttle going to TOGA with flaps and gear extended ?? )

Rgds.
G.

Gonzalo wrote:

barney captain wrote:

A few things -

In a 737 (unlike many aircraft), there is no increase in drag when you retract the gear. There are no additional gear doors that deploy.

While the W/S escape maneuver does specify not to change the a/c configuration - in this case they appear to be responding to a Predicted Wind Shear Alert - as opposed to an actual W/S. "Go Around - WS Ahead" is a function of the PWS system, and is different than an actual WS alert "Windshear Windshear Windshear". The procedure is a normal Go around (gear and flaps get retracted) and be prepared to perform the WS escape maneuver.

Thank you for your clarification, I’m sure many of us here really appreciate this. One of the things that call my attention in the video is the sound of a warning ( I thought it was a configuration alarm giving the warning of the throttle going to TOGA with flaps and gear extended ?? )

Rgds.
G.

Isn’t that just the famous Boeing autopilot disconnect noise?

Gonzalo wrote:

barney captain wrote:

A few things -

In a 737 (unlike many aircraft), there is no increase in drag when you retract the gear. There are no additional gear doors that deploy.

While the W/S escape maneuver does specify not to change the a/c configuration - in this case they appear to be responding to a Predicted Wind Shear Alert - as opposed to an actual W/S. "Go Around - WS Ahead" is a function of the PWS system, and is different than an actual WS alert "Windshear Windshear Windshear". The procedure is a normal Go around (gear and flaps get retracted) and be prepared to perform the WS escape maneuver.

Thank you for your clarification, I’m sure many of us here really appreciate this. One of the things that call my attention in the video is the sound of a warning ( I thought it was a configuration alarm giving the warning of the throttle going to TOGA with flaps and gear extended ?? )

Rgds.
G.

I suspect what you are referring to is the "Bwwap, Bwaap" sound - that is the A/P disconnect warning. You can see the Capt push the yoke mounted button a second time a few seconds later, which silenced it.

Though I'm only a frequent flyer and have no aviation background - other than being a million miler - I have trouble with this film clip appearing on a public social media channel. Even if this video was taken to protect the crew from eventual libility, it should *never* have appeared on YouTube.

The nice people at RG need to have a serious talk with this jump seater - assuming he was an employee.

kgaiflyer wrote:

Though I'm only a frequent flyer and have no aviation background - other than being a million miler - I have trouble with this film clip appearing on a public social media channel. Even if this video was taken to protect the crew from eventual libility, it should *never* have appeared on YouTube.

The nice people at RG need to have a serious talk with this jump seater - assuming he was an employee.

Why is it a problem?

A windshear escape maneuver isn't really classified or a mystery.

kgaiflyer wrote:

Though I'm only a frequent flyer and have no aviation background - other than being a million miler - I have trouble with this film clip appearing on a public social media channel. Even if this video was taken to protect the crew from eventual libility, it should *never* have appeared on YouTube.

The nice people at RG need to have a serious talk with this jump seater - assuming he was an employee.

What's wrong with this video being on Youtube?

I agree about the comments regarding leaving the gear extended until out of the wind shear. What has me perplexed is how the crew got into that position in the first place. If you see red on the radar, you avoid it, period. In fairness, I don't know how high the radar sensitivity was set. Each pilot can set that on their individual screen. However, the radar display seemed to match everything else that was going on. I've had some F/Os who turn the radar to max. Their display looks scary on a clear day!

747Whale wrote:

kgaiflyer wrote:

Though I'm only a frequent flyer and have no aviation background - other than being a million miler - I have trouble with this film clip appearing on a public social media channel. Even if this video was taken to protect the crew from eventual libility, it should *never* have appeared on YouTube.

The nice people at RG need to have a serious talk with this jump seater - assuming he was an employee.

Why is it a problem?

A windshear escape maneuver isn't really classified or a mystery.

GE90man wrote:

kgaiflyer wrote:

Though I'm only a frequent flyer and have no aviation background - other than being a million miler - I have trouble with this film clip appearing on a public social media channel. Even if this video was taken to protect the crew from eventual libility, it should *never* have appeared on YouTube.

The nice people at RG need to have a serious talk with this jump seater - assuming he was an employee.

What's wrong with this video being on Youtube?

Because, unfortunately, this (Passenger suing United for shattered windscreen and fear it caused) happens.

deebee278 wrote:

I agree about the comments regarding leaving the gear extended until out of the wind shear. What has me perplexed is how the crew got into that position in the first place. If you see red on the radar, you avoid it, period. In fairness, I don't know how high the radar sensitivity was set. Each pilot can set that on their individual screen. However, the radar display seemed to match everything else that was going on. I've had some F/Os who turn the radar to max. Their display looks scary on a clear day!

Let's see: landing gear down, full flaps. That sound like a landing configuration...

How do you avoid bad weather when it's an airport? Stop flying when there is wind, rain and hail???

739er wrote:

Textbook 737 wind shear escape maneuver there... “Maintain configuration”. It amazes me that some on here think that guy is just improvising as he goes along. That procedure is THE only approved and mandated SOP for just about every airline out there when encountering wind shear in a Boeing jet. The only thing I see that went wrong was that the jump seater posted the video for all of the ill informed public to critique.

Asking because I don't know, but is the procedure different in, say, an Airbus, or any other jet? Reading the other comments it would seem they'd need to keep the gear down on the A320 or other planes since they do have the gear doors whereas the 737 doesn't. Then again I'm by far not an expert so...

WayexTDI wrote:

deebee278 wrote:

How do you avoid bad weather when it's an airport? Stop flying when there is wind, rain and hail???

Yes that is exactly what you do, stop flying or go somewhere else.

ZBBYLW wrote:

WayexTDI wrote:

How do you avoid bad weather when it's an airport? Stop flying when there is wind, rain and hail???

Yes that is exactly what you do, stop flying or go somewhere else.

Then, basically, some areas of the world (a lot of them in fact) would basically see just a handful of flying days a year, between rain, wind, snow, fog, etc...

Thankfully, this is not the case as technology has allowed airplanes to safely fly in those conditions.

WayexTDI wrote:

deebee278 wrote:

I

How do you avoid bad weather when it's an airport? Stop flying when there is wind, rain and hail???

Yes, when it's excessive. When there's red on the radar display on your approach path when you are set up on the default display, it's time to go hold somewhere or divert. Hail probably won't display on radar but you will hear it soon enough. A Southern Airways crew found that out in 1977. By then, however, hail had trashed both engines. The outcome was very bad.

WayexTDI wrote:

Because, unfortunately, this happens.

Anybody can sue anybody for anything.

The millennial crowd loves to photograph themselves doing everything and vomit it all over social media around the clock. It's the look-at-me-now generation.

I wouldn't put it online, but it's not a security risk, and what the video shows is someone doing their job.

In other news, that is one sexy captain.

barney captain wrote:

A few things -

In a 737 (unlike many aircraft), there is no increase in drag when you retract the gear. There are no additional gear doors that deploy.

While the W/S escape maneuver does specify not to change the a/c configuration - in this case they appear to be responding to a Predicted Wind Shear Alert - as opposed to an actual W/S. "Go Around - WS Ahead" is a function of the PWS system, and is different than an actual WS alert "Windshear Windshear Windshear". The procedure is a normal Go around (gear and flaps get retracted) and be prepared to perform the WS escape maneuver.

Actually, GOL trains the response to the Predictive Windshear Warning a little differently than WN apparently does. They train that the response to a Predictive Windshear Warning on approach is to perform the Windshear Escape Maneuver. They train that the captain may, at his discretion, perform a normal go-around, but the primary trained response is a Windshear Escape Maneuver.

So what this CPT did was what he was trained to do.

GOL B737 FCTM: https://mega.nz/#!6tUGEK5I!auBfQVdv9bQA ... 7svpXQqfoE

wjcandee wrote:

barney captain wrote:

A few things -

In a 737 (unlike many aircraft), there is no increase in drag when you retract the gear. There are no additional gear doors that deploy.

While the W/S escape maneuver does specify not to change the a/c configuration - in this case they appear to be responding to a Predicted Wind Shear Alert - as opposed to an actual W/S. "Go Around - WS Ahead" is a function of the PWS system, and is different than an actual WS alert "Windshear Windshear Windshear". The procedure is a normal Go around (gear and flaps get retracted) and be prepared to perform the WS escape maneuver.

Actually, GOL trains the response to the Predictive Windshear Warning a little differently than WN apparently does. They train that the response to a Predictive Windshear Warning on approach is to perform the Windshear Escape Maneuver. They train that the captain may, at his discretion, perform a normal go-around, but the primary trained response is a Windshear Escape Maneuver.

So what this CPT did was what he was trained to do.

GOL B737 FCTM: https://mega.nz/#!6tUGEK5I!auBfQVdv9bQA ... 7svpXQqfoE

Odd that they would make up a procedure in contradiction to the Boeing FCOM.

barney captain wrote:

Odd that they would make up a procedure in contradiction to the Boeing FCOM.

It’s not a contradiction, it just goes further.

ZBBYLW wrote:

WayexTDI wrote:

deebee278 wrote:

How do you avoid bad weather when it's an airport? Stop flying when there is wind, rain and hail???

Yes that is exactly what you do, stop flying or go somewhere else.

Indeed, or more commonly planes will be asked to hold for some time while the storm passes over the field or approach path, which doesn't normally take to long. I live in México city and this is very common during rainy season, it's quite a show on Flightradar 24 with all the holds set up way up at high altitudes. it soon causes a lot of delays because it's a very busy airport, and you'll see flights diverting because the arrival delays get too long.

So no, planes don't just fly into it because they're landing. A cumulonimbus is a cumulonimbus, it doesn't matter if you're at high altitude or low, and no, planes are not designed to safely fly into the worst of them. There's a reasonable chance, we can't say for sure of course, that crew was a little too 'brave.' when they decided to carry out that approach.

barney captain wrote:

wjcandee wrote:

barney captain wrote:

A few things -

In a 737 (unlike many aircraft), there is no increase in drag when you retract the gear. There are no additional gear doors that deploy.

While the W/S escape maneuver does specify not to change the a/c configuration - in this case they appear to be responding to a Predicted Wind Shear Alert - as opposed to an actual W/S. "Go Around - WS Ahead" is a function of the PWS system, and is different than an actual WS alert "Windshear Windshear Windshear". The procedure is a normal Go around (gear and flaps get retracted) and be prepared to perform the WS escape maneuver.

Actually, GOL trains the response to the Predictive Windshear Warning a little differently than WN apparently does. They train that the response to a Predictive Windshear Warning on approach is to perform the Windshear Escape Maneuver. They train that the captain may, at his discretion, perform a normal go-around, but the primary trained response is a Windshear Escape Maneuver.

So what this CPT did was what he was trained to do.

GOL B737 FCTM: https://mega.nz/#!6tUGEK5I!auBfQVdv9bQA ... 7svpXQqfoE

Odd that they would make up a procedure in contradiction to the Boeing FCOM.

An escape maneuver isn't contrary to the FCOM.

It's a conservative and safe approach to it.

I'm a big fan of, 'better safe than sorry', flying behavior. I think these guys did an excellent job of 'First...fly the plane'.

On another note, that is one nasty looking radar picture. To my eyes, these guys reacted like they had anticipate the possibility of windshear and were ready to act.

Kudos to the flight crew.

I think it's important for the general public to see how good pilots react in stressful situations. On the surface, it may have looked somewhat chaotic, but that was a good example of pilots taking care of business.

Nicely done.

747Whale wrote:

barney captain wrote:

wjcandee wrote:

Actually, GOL trains the response to the Predictive Windshear Warning a little differently than WN apparently does. They train that the response to a Predictive Windshear Warning on approach is to perform the Windshear Escape Maneuver. They train that the captain may, at his discretion, perform a normal go-around, but the primary trained response is a Windshear Escape Maneuver.

So what this CPT did was what he was trained to do.

GOL B737 FCTM: https://mega.nz/#!6tUGEK5I!auBfQVdv9bQA ... 7svpXQqfoE

Odd that they would make up a procedure in contradiction to the Boeing FCOM.

An escape maneuver isn't contrary to the FCOM.

It's a conservative and safe approach to it.

Good point, it is a a more conservative approach (no pun intended)

747Whale wrote:

barney captain wrote:

wjcandee wrote:

Actually, GOL trains the response to the Predictive Windshear Warning a little differently than WN apparently does. They train that the response to a Predictive Windshear Warning on approach is to perform the Windshear Escape Maneuver. They train that the captain may, at his discretion, perform a normal go-around, but the primary trained response is a Windshear Escape Maneuver.

So what this CPT did was what he was trained to do.

GOL B737 FCTM: https://mega.nz/#!6tUGEK5I!auBfQVdv9bQA ... 7svpXQqfoE

Odd that they would make up a procedure in contradiction to the Boeing FCOM.

An escape maneuver isn't contrary to the FCOM.

It's a conservative and safe approach to it.

Possibly. But the reason my airline’s procedure is to fly a normal missed with a predictive windshear alert is to get rid of drag while you can. I’d MUCH rather encounter windshear with gear up and flaps 15. If you go around with a predictive, and then have to perform the escape maneuver 15 second later with a reactive windshear alert, you’re in a much better position to be in the go-around vs landing configuration

Yea, as others have noted, looks good on the go around part given the windshear alert. What I find maybe concerning, though the resolution is not great, is all that red on the radar. Seems like the pilots did a good job reacting to the situation but maybe not a good job avoiding it?

Ultimately, the plane landed safely so that is all that matters. Though I am sure the airline appreciated the hail damage..

Green some yellow, sure no big deal. All that red? Time for find a holding pattern or alternate. Of course we don't have all the facts and I am not an airline pilot. But that is the extent of my knowledge.

flymia wrote:

Green some yellow, sure no big deal. All that red? Time for find a holding pattern or alternate. Of course we don't have all the facts and I am not an airline pilot. But that is the extent of my knowledge.

Without some context as to altitude, range setting, tilt setting, and the radar setting, it's impossible to make an assertion regarding what's seen. The picture is blurry, and it's not clear what is being seen, or the degree to which the display is showing predictive, or an actual return. That hail begins shortly into the procedure is a good indication of what's overhead, though, as is the fact that they're executing an escape maneuver.

I was far more interested in the fact that the captain was flying, and had to call for the landing gear not once, but twice, and still didn't get a response, and ended up raising it without the F/O. That tells me a lot about what was going on in the cockpit.

FANTASTIC !!!! I would put my kids on that plane. That’s a crew! Fly the plane...too simple. All you armchair pilots take a look. Standard windshear recovery. Well done. F...the gear. Little drama.

Cheers!

Armchair pilots?

747Whale wrote:

flymia wrote:

Green some yellow, sure no big deal. All that red? Time for find a holding pattern or alternate. Of course we don't have all the facts and I am not an airline pilot. But that is the extent of my knowledge.

Without some context as to altitude, range setting, tilt setting, and the radar setting, it's impossible to make an assertion regarding what's seen. The picture is blurry, and it's not clear what is being seen, or the degree to which the display is showing predictive, or an actual return. That hail begins shortly into the procedure is a good indication of what's overhead, though, as is the fact that they're executing an escape maneuver.

I was far more interested in the fact that the captain was flying, and had to call for the landing gear not once, but twice, and still didn't get a response, and ended up raising it without the F/O. That tells me a lot about what was going on in the cockpit.

My number one takeaway of the video is that the pilot flying concentrated on flying the aircraft. He didn't start looking around until he was through the hail.

It sounds to me like they may be speaking Portuguese some of the time. I'd like to see a transcript of that clip.