AlexBrewster03
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Will JetBlue ever fly to Hawaii?

Mon Jan 28, 2019 6:07 am

This may seem like a stupid question, but why does B6 not fly to Hawaii? Have they given any thought to it? Or is it a problem with their aircraft not having the right ETOPS certification? One would think they could be successful with routes from LGB or LAX. Id appreciate your responses as this is something I’ve wondered about for a long time
 
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FA9295
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Re: Will JetBlue ever fly to Hawaii?

Mon Jan 28, 2019 6:16 am

Well, HA has a LGB-HNL flight now, which covers it for B6. Where else could B6 fly to Hawaii from? LAX-Hawaii is way too saturated already.

I think the main reason is that JetBlue is not very popular on the west coast. LGB is their only hub/focus city there. Airlines like AS dominate the west coast, and WN starting Hawaii flights really doesn't help either.
 
AlexBrewster03
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Re: Will JetBlue ever fly to Hawaii?

Mon Jan 28, 2019 6:38 am

FA9295 wrote:
Well, HA has a LGB-HNL flight now, which covers it for B6. Where else could B6 fly to Hawaii from? LAX-Hawaii is way too saturated already.

I think the main reason is that JetBlue is not very popular on the west coast. LGB is their only hub/focus city there. Airlines like AS dominate the west coast, and WN starting Hawaii flights really doesn't help either.

Ya i guess i forgot that they arent that strong out west. Its a shame because jetBlue is a lovely airline. It would be interesting to see them attemp it from LGB however. If they were to get a longer range jet (nma, a330, a321xlr) that could fly east coast to hawaii, it would be interesting to see if they would attemp that, but thats more wishful thinking
 
dampfnudel
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Re: Will JetBlue ever fly to Hawaii?

Mon Jan 28, 2019 7:01 am

I think they’re happy with the arrangement they have with HA, at least for now. Now, if they ever decide to go widebody to Europe someday, they could also use them to fly west for 10 hours plus if they wanted to and it made economic sense.
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FA9295
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Re: Will JetBlue ever fly to Hawaii?

Mon Jan 28, 2019 7:27 am

Also, HA flies JFK-HNL and will be starting BOS-HNL soon. This also covers the B6 network very well.
 
Boof02671
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Re: Will JetBlue ever fly to Hawaii?

Mon Jan 28, 2019 2:14 pm

And B6 does the ground handling for HA at JFK.
 
StinkyPinky
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Re: Will JetBlue ever fly to Hawaii?

Mon Jan 28, 2019 3:19 pm

Not happening ever...

1) No ETOPS and nowhere close to getting it.
2) They say they'd love to fly there, but then in the same breath that its a competitive, saturated market and they wouldn't be relevant since they don't offer enough connections or frequency.
3) Its a long stage length with low yield, the aircraft could be better deployed elsewhere - like more Caribbean/East Coast flying.
4) Southwest entering the market.
5) Hawaiian operates LGB-HNL, handled by B6. The only city that they could have actually had a shot at considering the strength of the other airlines out of LAX, SFO, and SEA - with multiple daily flights and widebodies and can handle cargo.
6) Weak presence on the West Coast.
7) Just the simple fact that this company is not expanding anywhere exciting and is clearly focused on being a "East Coast Airline."
8) And a little off topic - but I think the recent events and concerns over at Norwegian, WOW, Premera Air has scared Jetblue from ETOPS or TATL flying... 4 years and ZERO basic steps towards this goal. Its just a tactic used to boost low employee morale "Sorry we're not expanding, our stock is low, we have the worst ontime performance, our cabin interiors are awful and being refitted 5 years too late.... but Culture! And Caring! And Europe!) Its pretty embarrassing that Virgin America and even Allegiant managed to achieve ETOPs and Hawaii flying before Jetblue.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Will JetBlue ever fly to Hawaii?

Mon Jan 28, 2019 3:27 pm

B6 doesn't have much in the way of West Coast ops, and West Coast to Hawaii is very competitive. NMA is years away. B6 has no A330s on order. One can be suspicious if the putative 321XLR will have the range for JFK-HNL in a B6 config with winter winds - and it, too, is a paper airplane. There are, what, three NYC/BOS-Hawaii non-stops? If they can't find the fortitude to start TATL ops from JFK/BOS where ~a hundred flights operate I don't see how they start JFK-Hawaii.
 
Boof02671
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Re: Will JetBlue ever fly to Hawaii?

Mon Jan 28, 2019 3:34 pm

A 321 can fly west coast to HNL, AA does it in an A321ceo.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: Will JetBlue ever fly to Hawaii?

Mon Jan 28, 2019 3:40 pm

They have HA for this. They would be better to focus on a few main European cities or something IMHO
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Will JetBlue ever fly to Hawaii?

Mon Jan 28, 2019 3:50 pm

dampfnudel wrote:
I think they’re happy with the arrangement they have with HA, at least for now. Now, if they ever decide to go widebody to Europe someday, they could also use them to fly west for 10 hours plus if they wanted to and it made economic sense.

I agree they are happy with HA, for now. Widebodies? Why. If the A321XLR happens, that is a better fit for JetBlue.

Lightsaber
IM messages to mods on warnings and bans will be ignored and nasty ones will result in a ban.
 
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RWA380
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Re: Will JetBlue ever fly to Hawaii?

Mon Jan 28, 2019 4:30 pm

dampfnudel wrote:
I think they’re happy with the arrangement they have with HA, at least for now. Now, if they ever decide to go widebody to Europe someday, they could also use them to fly west for 10 hours plus if they wanted to and it made economic sense.


Exactly this. They had been considering their own LGB-HNL/OGG flights & it was decided that a tie in with HA would aleve themselves of the burden of ETOPS 180 program for a couple of routes, that may or may not work.

With non-stop options on HA from JFK & now BOS, B6 has nothing to offer it’s two largest customer bases. IIRC the HA flights leave BOS & JFK too early for lots of connections, but with the early am arrivals on the Eastbound sectors there ar many more connections opportunities on B6.

I don’t know if just LAS & AUS get into LGB before the HA flight leaves & I think only red-eyes to JFK or BOS are same day connections on the return. It looks like B6 did what it took to tie up with the best carrier to Hawaii for their needs, allowing the A-330’s to focus on TATL.
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Super80Fan
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Re: Will JetBlue ever fly to Hawaii?

Mon Jan 28, 2019 4:35 pm

Absolutely B6 will be serving Hawaii - As soon as Alaska, United, or Hawaiian merges with them.
RIP McDonnell Douglas
RIP US Airways
 
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precure787
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Re: Will JetBlue ever fly to Hawaii?

Mon Jan 28, 2019 4:46 pm

If that's the case, they'd use the A321neo to get there (most likely from LAX).
From JFK, they'd have to make a stopover at either LAX or SFO, unless they can get the aircraft capable for flying non-stop (possibly he A330neo)
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stlgph
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Re: Will JetBlue ever fly to Hawaii?

Mon Jan 28, 2019 4:48 pm

oh come on people, who said anything about flying to Hawaii from the West Coast of the U.S.?

follow along - we're talking LONDON. ((oh, and Boston))
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
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precure787
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Re: Will JetBlue ever fly to Hawaii?

Mon Jan 28, 2019 4:49 pm

Super80Fan wrote:
As soon as Alaska, United, or Hawaiian merges with them.

Alaska has already merged with Virgin America (the former keeps the brand name), whereas United has merged with Continental. JetBlue's merger may not be possible due to lacking of competition.
Edward Zen/Precure 787
 
Boof02671
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Re: Will JetBlue ever fly to Hawaii?

Mon Jan 28, 2019 4:54 pm

B6 will be getting an ETOPS program eventually, as they probably will be flying A321neos one day to Europe.

Never say never.
 
WPvsMW
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Re: Will JetBlue ever fly to Hawaii?

Mon Jan 28, 2019 6:34 pm

precure787 wrote:
Super80Fan wrote:
As soon as Alaska, United, or Hawaiian merges with them.

Alaska has already merged with Virgin America (the former keeps the brand name), whereas United has merged with Continental. JetBlue's merger may not be possible due to lacking of competition.


Super80Fan's post was humorous... ;) as in, not serious.
 
fastmover
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Re: Will JetBlue ever fly to Hawaii?

Mon Jan 28, 2019 6:37 pm

StinkyPinky wrote:
Not happening ever...

1) No ETOPS and nowhere close to getting it.
2) They say they'd love to fly there, but then in the same breath that its a competitive, saturated market and they wouldn't be relevant since they don't offer enough connections or frequency.
3) Its a long stage length with low yield, the aircraft could be better deployed elsewhere - like more Caribbean/East Coast flying.
4) Southwest entering the market.
5) Hawaiian operates LGB-HNL, handled by B6. The only city that they could have actually had a shot at considering the strength of the other airlines out of LAX, SFO, and SEA - with multiple daily flights and widebodies and can handle cargo.
6) Weak presence on the West Coast.
7) Just the simple fact that this company is not expanding anywhere exciting and is clearly focused on being a "East Coast Airline."
8) And a little off topic - but I think the recent events and concerns over at Norwegian, WOW, Premera Air has scared Jetblue from ETOPS or TATL flying... 4 years and ZERO basic steps towards this goal. Its just a tactic used to boost low employee morale "Sorry we're not expanding, our stock is low, we have the worst ontime performance, our cabin interiors are awful and being refitted 5 years too late.... but Culture! And Caring! And Europe!) Its pretty embarrassing that Virgin America and even Allegiant managed to achieve ETOPs and Hawaii flying before Jetblue.




Are you sure there isn’t anyone working on ETOPS?
From what I understand they are.
 
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RWA380
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Re: Will JetBlue ever fly to Hawaii?

Tue Jan 29, 2019 1:19 am

fastmover wrote:
StinkyPinky wrote:
Not happening ever...

1) No ETOPS and nowhere close to getting it.
2) They say they'd love to fly there, but then in the same breath that its a competitive, saturated market and they wouldn't be relevant since they don't offer enough connections or frequency.
3) Its a long stage length with low yield, the aircraft could be better deployed elsewhere - like more Caribbean/East Coast flying.
4) Southwest entering the market.
5) Hawaiian operates LGB-HNL, handled by B6. The only city that they could have actually had a shot at considering the strength of the other airlines out of LAX, SFO, and SEA - with multiple daily flights and widebodies and can handle cargo.
6) Weak presence on the West Coast.
7) Just the simple fact that this company is not expanding anywhere exciting and is clearly focused on being a "East Coast Airline."
8) And a little off topic - but I think the recent events and concerns over at Norwegian, WOW, Premera Air has scared Jetblue from ETOPS or TATL flying... 4 years and ZERO basic steps towards this goal. Its just a tactic used to boost low employee morale "Sorry we're not expanding, our stock is low, we have the worst ontime performance, our cabin interiors are awful and being refitted 5 years too late.... but Culture! And Caring! And Europe!) Its pretty embarrassing that Virgin America and even Allegiant managed to achieve ETOPs and Hawaii flying before Jetblue.




Are you sure there isn’t anyone working on ETOPS?
From what I understand they are.


ETOPS 180 is what B6 needs for West Coast - Hawaii, I don’t believe 180 is required for East Coast - TATL service, but a mere ETOPS 120. I’m happy to be wrong, but B6 would be flying over or near Greenland & Iceland, then onto Ireland, not quite the open ocean with no alternates, like Hawaii. So, they may be trying for an ETOPS approval process, it just not may be 180. I am sure they have some ETOPS approval in place as they fly across the Gulf of Mexico.
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Boof02671
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Re: Will JetBlue ever fly to Hawaii?

Tue Jan 29, 2019 1:42 am

They don’t have ETOPS, it would be specific planes.

The have EOW procedures which is not ETOPS.

ETOPS requires planes to be equipped with different components, rafts, HF Radios etc. B6 is NOT ETOPS certified.
 
B6JFKH81
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Re: Will JetBlue ever fly to Hawaii?

Tue Jan 29, 2019 3:51 am

Yes, B6 is not certified for ETOPS.... currently. They have an ETOPS department/crew working on the program draft which means it is in the pipeline.

As far as equipment goes (HF COMM, rafts), all B6 aircraft are EOW equipped including these items already. B6 has been operating flights way out over the Atlantic to the Caribbean for many years instead of hugging the coast and using military airspace over the Atlantic opened during the holidays which is only available to properly equipped aircraft. They may need additional equipment, but it isn't like they have nothing installed yet

As far as the OPs question goes, I think B6 is happy with their relationship with HA at this time and will use their ETOPS certification to cross the Atlantic before the Pacific.
"If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"
 
santi319
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Re: Will JetBlue ever fly to Hawaii?

Tue Jan 29, 2019 4:10 am

Nope, because “Europe is imminent”
 
KICT
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Re: Will JetBlue ever fly to Hawaii?

Tue Jan 29, 2019 7:18 am

Boof02671 wrote:
Never say never.

Unless of course we're talking about B6 ever merging with another airline...
People are saying. Believe me.
 
dampfnudel
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Re: Will JetBlue ever fly to Hawaii?

Tue Jan 29, 2019 9:35 am

lightsaber wrote:
dampfnudel wrote:
I think they’re happy with the arrangement they have with HA, at least for now. Now, if they ever decide to go widebody to Europe someday, they could also use them to fly west for 10 hours plus if they wanted to and it made economic sense.

I agree they are happy with HA, for now. Widebodies? Why. If the A321XLR happens, that is a better fit for JetBlue.

Lightsaber

You’re right. It’s probably unrealistic to think/hope JetBlue would ever be capable of reaching the levels achieved by DL, UA and AA. Making the attempt or even something close to it would probably even threaten JetBlue’s existence.
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dampfnudel
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Re: Will JetBlue ever fly to Hawaii?

Tue Jan 29, 2019 9:40 am

santi319 wrote:
Nope, because “Europe is imminent”

Which makes more sense than Hawaii at the moment.
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BravoOne
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Re: Will JetBlue ever fly to Hawaii?

Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:36 am

120 Minute ETOPS works pretty good for ops to and from the north eastern part of N America, and of course 180 is the minimum for ops in the central eastern pacific.
 
jumbojet
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Re: Will JetBlue ever fly to Hawaii?

Tue Jan 29, 2019 1:17 pm

dampfnudel wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
dampfnudel wrote:
I think they’re happy with the arrangement they have with HA, at least for now. Now, if they ever decide to go widebody to Europe someday, they could also use them to fly west for 10 hours plus if they wanted to and it made economic sense.

I agree they are happy with HA, for now. Widebodies? Why. If the A321XLR happens, that is a better fit for JetBlue.

Lightsaber

You’re right. It’s probably unrealistic to think/hope JetBlue would ever be capable of reaching the levels achieved by DL, UA and AA. Making the attempt or even something close to it would probably even threaten JetBlue’s existence.



AA/DL/UA have been around for nearly 100 years each. B6 has been around a fraction of that time. Maybe in 80 more years JetBlue will have everything that the legacies have, including service to Hawaii and London. Then again, maybe not. Time will tell. For now, they are a fine little niche airline.
 
fastmover
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Re: Will JetBlue ever fly to Hawaii?

Tue Jan 29, 2019 1:29 pm

jumbojet wrote:
dampfnudel wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
I agree they are happy with HA, for now. Widebodies? Why. If the A321XLR happens, that is a better fit for JetBlue.

Lightsaber

You’re right. It’s probably unrealistic to think/hope JetBlue would ever be capable of reaching the levels achieved by DL, UA and AA. Making the attempt or even something close to it would probably even threaten JetBlue’s existence.



AA/DL/UA have been around for nearly 100 years each. B6 has been around a fraction of that time. Maybe in 80 more years JetBlue will have everything that the legacies have, including service to Hawaii and London. Then again, maybe not. Time will tell. For now, they are a fine little niche airline.



Which is funny because you are always on them for not being like the big guys. If we historically look (I know it’s so hard) the big guys are big after years and years of mergers and growth. Jetblue is an almost 20 year old kid trying to rent an apartment in the building owned by Delta, UA, AA. That’s not making excuses for the or their operations right not but it is reality.

The HA deal is exactly what it is so jetblue won’t be flying to HA unless they think it’s worth it.
Everyone wants to personally define jetblue for some reason. If you want to know where they will go listen to what the say......the most important markets from BOS FLL and JFK. They are not interested in just flying somewhere just to do it.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: Will JetBlue ever fly to Hawaii?

Tue Jan 29, 2019 1:31 pm

fastmover wrote:
StinkyPinky wrote:
Not happening ever...

1) No ETOPS and nowhere close to getting it.
2) They say they'd love to fly there, but then in the same breath that its a competitive, saturated market and they wouldn't be relevant since they don't offer enough connections or frequency.
3) Its a long stage length with low yield, the aircraft could be better deployed elsewhere - like more Caribbean/East Coast flying.
4) Southwest entering the market.
5) Hawaiian operates LGB-HNL, handled by B6. The only city that they could have actually had a shot at considering the strength of the other airlines out of LAX, SFO, and SEA - with multiple daily flights and widebodies and can handle cargo.
6) Weak presence on the West Coast.
7) Just the simple fact that this company is not expanding anywhere exciting and is clearly focused on being a "East Coast Airline."
8) And a little off topic - but I think the recent events and concerns over at Norwegian, WOW, Premera Air has scared Jetblue from ETOPS or TATL flying... 4 years and ZERO basic steps towards this goal. Its just a tactic used to boost low employee morale "Sorry we're not expanding, our stock is low, we have the worst ontime performance, our cabin interiors are awful and being refitted 5 years too late.... but Culture! And Caring! And Europe!) Its pretty embarrassing that Virgin America and even Allegiant managed to achieve ETOPs and Hawaii flying before Jetblue.




Are you sure there isn’t anyone working on ETOPS?
From what I understand they are.



Their FAA POI told me to my face it was paused.

That was in November.

Take that for what it is worth.
 
fastmover
Posts: 419
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 5:37 pm

Re: Will JetBlue ever fly to Hawaii?

Tue Jan 29, 2019 2:56 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
fastmover wrote:
StinkyPinky wrote:
Not happening ever...

1) No ETOPS and nowhere close to getting it.
2) They say they'd love to fly there, but then in the same breath that its a competitive, saturated market and they wouldn't be relevant since they don't offer enough connections or frequency.
3) Its a long stage length with low yield, the aircraft could be better deployed elsewhere - like more Caribbean/East Coast flying.
4) Southwest entering the market.
5) Hawaiian operates LGB-HNL, handled by B6. The only city that they could have actually had a shot at considering the strength of the other airlines out of LAX, SFO, and SEA - with multiple daily flights and widebodies and can handle cargo.
6) Weak presence on the West Coast.
7) Just the simple fact that this company is not expanding anywhere exciting and is clearly focused on being a "East Coast Airline."
8) And a little off topic - but I think the recent events and concerns over at Norwegian, WOW, Premera Air has scared Jetblue from ETOPS or TATL flying... 4 years and ZERO basic steps towards this goal. Its just a tactic used to boost low employee morale "Sorry we're not expanding, our stock is low, we have the worst ontime performance, our cabin interiors are awful and being refitted 5 years too late.... but Culture! And Caring! And Europe!) Its pretty embarrassing that Virgin America and even Allegiant managed to achieve ETOPs and Hawaii flying before Jetblue.




Are you sure there isn’t anyone working on ETOPS?
From what I understand they are.



Their FAA POI told me to my face it was paused.

That was in November.

Take that for what it is worth.



That’s fine and could be true. Last update down at OSC said different.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: Will JetBlue ever fly to Hawaii?

Wed Jan 30, 2019 1:13 pm

It could be. But that was Nov, Dec was holidays and govt has been shut down for
Jan.

I don’t think much is changed
 
Aptivaboy
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Re: Will JetBlue ever fly to Hawaii?

Wed Jan 30, 2019 2:34 pm

They really have no immediate need. The Hawaii market is saturated, with Southwest entering soon fares and therefore revenue will drop making the market harder to profit from, and they're more focused on Europe if and when they become ETOPS certified. Toss in their East Coast oriented route structure and Jetblue doesn't possess the feed to really make it happen. If my old memory is working, Hawaiian's Long Beach gates are or were actually Jetblue's, so that should indicate their interest in Hawaii.

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