Hey Folks,

I did not find something via the search-function, so maybe its a good idea to start a LH-Fleet Thread to keep track of whats happening there.

Regards

Hi Viennafly.

I think you've made small spelling mistake, which completely changes the meaning of your post.

I'm sure you mean 'Thread", not 'Threat'.

Interesting idea, though, depending on how you see the fleet developing.

According to the usually well informed lh-taufnamen.de we should see the following deliveries in 2019:

A320 CEO : 6
A320 NEO : at least 7, more possible
A321 NEO : 6
A350 : 3

Also 4 more 777F, 2 each for LH Cargo and Aerologic.
The above is only about LH mainline. I´m sure at the end of the year things will have been a bit different, especially concerning the NEO fleet.

When are the 77X due for delivery?

pegasus1 wrote:

I'm sure you mean 'Thread", not 'Threat'.

Of course, autocorrect made me do it - nevertheless maybe some admin can change this...

I usually like to get my information from this site:

https://sites.google.com/site/lhgroupfleet/home

Much more up-to-date and these guys usually get some insider information.

From widebodyside we will see litte change by size, as A333s are leaving towards the EW-Operation by Brussels Airlines, 3 more A350s are entering the fleet, the 2 A343s at Eurowings will return to LH and we will see the reactivation of at least one A346 during summer peak season.

upperdeckfan wrote:

When are the 77X due for delivery?

They should be arriving from 2020, so next year onwards, first half of the year ist scheduled.

The biggest question about LH and the LH Group is the future of their A333 replacement.

The 77X is replacing their 744s (and likely their A388 and 748s within 10-15 years, assuming no A380neo). A359 are replacing their A343 and A346. I could see some A22X being added to bolster their A32X fleet on the NB side. This leaves their sizeable A333 fleet (as well as A333 and A343 at LX, 763/772 at OS).

There is a good chance of EW and OS getting the bulk of the A333 from LH mainline. The A343 (from LH and LX) and A346 (LH) will be sent to Coca Cola Land.

I predict the A333 from both will be replaced by a 787/797 combo with LH being the European LC for the latter. It's going to be a big order for a mix of 796, 797, 789, 78J. Big headlines. The A330neo will not be coming to LH Group.

GEUltraFan9XGTF wrote:

The biggest question about LH and the LH Group is the future of their A333 replacement.

The 77X is replacing their 744s (and likely their A388 and 748s within 10-15 years, assuming no A380neo). A359 are replacing their A343 and A346. I could see some A22X being added to bolster their A32X fleet on the NB side. This leaves their sizeable A333 fleet (as well as A333 and A343 at LX, 763/772 at OS).

There is a good chance of EW and OS getting the bulk of the A333 from LH mainline. The A343 (from LH and LX) and A346 (LH) will be sent to Coca Cola Land.

I predict the A333 from both will be replaced by a 787/797 combo with LH being the European LC for the latter. It's going to be a big order for a mix of 796, 797, 789, 78J. Big headlines. The A330neo will not be coming to LH Group.

Not sure about the 797, but 787 seems to be a good candidate to replace the A343s, A330s, 767s and 772s within the LH Group.

LH: A380 (FRA/MUC), 747-8I (FRA), 777-9X (FRA), A350 (MUC) 787-9/10 (FRA), A32x, A220 (at Cityline).

Swiss 777-9,777-300,787-9,A32x,A220

Austrian 787-9, A32x (if not becoming Eurowings)

Brussels/Eurowings 787-8/9,A32x

I also don´t believe in the A330NEO coming to LH Group.

GEUltraFan9XGTF wrote:

The biggest question about LH and the LH Group is the future of their A333 replacement.

The 77X is replacing their 744s (and likely their A388 and 748s within 10-15 years, assuming no A380neo). A359 are replacing their A343 and A346. I could see some A22X being added to bolster their A32X fleet on the NB side. This leaves their sizeable A333 fleet (as well as A333 and A343 at LX, 763/772 at OS).

There is a good chance of EW and OS getting the bulk of the A333 from LH mainline. The A343 (from LH and LX) and A346 (LH) will be sent to Coca Cola Land.

Are the LH A333s in desperate need of replacement? They're not that old and they serve their current role well. IMO if anything the A333 fleet should have been bigger.

I predict the A333 from both will be replaced by a 787/797 combo with LH being the European LC for the latter. It's going to be a big order for a mix of 796, 797, 789, 78J. Big headlines. The A330neo will not be coming to LH Group.

Lufthansa has had fifteen years to order the 787, yet still hasn't bitten...

zkojq wrote:

Lufthansa has had fifteen years to order the 787, yet still hasn't bitten...

It took them longer to order the 777 but yet they did. Currently they are evaluating to order the 787 although they have options for more A350s. A 777X/787 combo makes sense as both have the same type rating.

zkojq wrote:

Lufthansa has had fifteen years to order the 787, yet still hasn't bitten...

Your second point has everything to do with your first! Exactly. The A333 are newish and brilliantly maintained but LH can't sit around idle. We're talking about options for the next 5-10 years. What about rising oil prices? What about pressure to reduce CO2 emissions? What about growth? Airlines don't usually make orders for what they need tomorrow but what they think they need in 5+ years. The A333 is great for today but not the equipment they need for tomorrow, especially as Europe's flagship airline...

Aerologic and Lufthansa Cargo should receive one 777 each this week, respectively D-AALK and D-ALFF.

columba wrote:

LH: A380 (FRA/MUC), 747-8I (FRA), 777-9X (FRA), A350 (MUC) 787-9/10 (FRA), A32x, A220 (at Cityline).

During the press event for the order of the A350 and B777x they had some route-examples for the 777x, which would see operation from both FRA and MUC, some A/C equipped with first class, some without.

It is not quite clear yet were the 777Xs will be based and which aircraft they will replace:
http://www.airliners.de/lufthansa-entsc ... rung/48601
(Source in German)

Spohr said recently regarding the 787 that if they would order them they would not be based them together with the A350 and that they plan to move smaller aircraft to FRA and larger to MUC
https://www.aero.de/news-30432/Kleinere ... nchen.html

Is flight BOE162 from PAE to GEG considered as delivery of D-ALFF to GEC?

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/d-alff

SpaceshipDC10 wrote:

Is flight BOE162 from PAE to GEG considered as delivery of D-ALFF to GEC?

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/d-alff

Nope it is actually the first flight (B1) the aircraft will ever take since it left the factory doors . BOE call sign means the aircraft is still owned by Boeing and undergoing testing .

GEG (Spokane) and MWH (Moses Lake) are places where the first flight and the customer flight use to fly to for touch and go and aborted approaches . flight plan usually is PAE-GEG-PAE or PAE-MWH-PAE

PDX (Portland) is another airport Boeing uses (for testing and painting) but because of heavy traffic they choose it only when the painting is scheduled to be taken place there .

When it will be delivered call sign should be "DLHxxxx" (x=number)

Not sure if this is the correct thread, but when will LH officially transfer its remaining 'Jump' A343s back into the Mainline or elsewhere ?

I was under the impression that Jump ended; however, I'm seeing ADD operated by LH CityLine A340 for S19

If they succeed in taking over Norwegian, they’ll have a nice 787 fleet

boefan wrote:

Alright, thanks.

iadadd wrote:

Not sure if this is the correct thread, but when will LH officially transfer its remaining 'Jump' A343s back into the Mainline or elsewhere ?

I was under the impression that Jump ended; however, I'm seeing ADD operated by LH CityLine A340 for S19

It's a Lufthansa group question in a Lufthansa fleet thread. It seems the right place to me.

Their six oldest A320s (AIPA - PF) are due to leave the fleet this year.

Their first A321neo (AIEA) is due for delivery on 4th March.

CarbonFibre wrote:

Their six oldest A320s (AIPA - PF) are due to leave the fleet this year.

Their first A321neo (AIEA) is due for delivery on 4th March.

It seems so strange that they remain AIPH - PS flying as they are not much younger.

Why does the A333neo not fit into their future plans,considering how well the current A333s have been serving them? The 777X and the A350s can sometimes be too big for some tatl routes where frequency and flexibility are more important..

marcogr12 wrote:

Why does the A333neo not fit into their future plans,considering how well the current A333s have been serving them? The 777X and the A350s can sometimes be too big for some tatl routes where frequency and flexibility are more important..

If they decide to order more A350 to replace the A343 I think the NEO is still an option to replace the relative joung A330 fleet. It they go for the 787 they won´t order the NEO.

iadadd wrote:

Not sure if this is the correct thread, but when will LH officially transfer its remaining 'Jump' A343s back into the Mainline or elsewhere ?

I was under the impression that Jump ended; however, I'm seeing ADD operated by LH CityLine A340 for S19

Good question. TPA is also showing as CL in F19, although it’s mainline today. I wonder if it’s just a matter of last year’s schedule being rolled forward, and will be tweaked later? Or if something has indeeed changed — LH may want metal with this cabin mix and density at mainline after all.

Have they announced what they plan on doing with the A321neo? Where will they base them? Maybe we will see them on some African missions? Could it make it from FRA to IKA? (naturally if refuelling issues are resolved)

steman wrote:

According to the usually well informed lh-taufnamen.de we should see the following deliveries in 2019:

A320 CEO : 6
A320 NEO : at least 7, more possible
A321 NEO : 6
A350 : 3

Also 4 more 777F, 2 each for LH Cargo and Aerologic.
The above is only about LH mainline. I´m sure at the end of the year things will have been a bit different, especially concerning the NEO fleet.

G'day all,

Can someone please tell me what's the difference between the 'original new cs' as it appears on D-AIZC and the 'new cs' on D-AIZG? The lh-taufnamen.de is the only website that mentions something like this and they highlight the 'new cs' with a slightly different shade of blue, is this something which also reflects on any slight change on the new LH livery? I've looked elsewhere online but couldn't find any relevant reference.

Thank you.

georgemlb wrote:

steman wrote:

According to the usually well informed lh-taufnamen.de we should see the following deliveries in 2019:

A320 CEO : 6
A320 NEO : at least 7, more possible
A321 NEO : 6
A350 : 3

Also 4 more 777F, 2 each for LH Cargo and Aerologic.
The above is only about LH mainline. I´m sure at the end of the year things will have been a bit different, especially concerning the NEO fleet.

G'day all,

Can someone please tell me what's the difference between the 'original new cs' as it appears on D-AIZC and the 'new cs' on D-AIZG? The lh-taufnamen.de is the only website that mentions something like this and they highlight the 'new cs' with a slightly different shade of blue, is this something which also reflects on any slight change on the new LH livery? I've looked elsewhere online but couldn't find any relevant reference.

Thank you.

After they introduced the new color scheme everybody felt like it was looking to blackish, so a new color was introduced being more blueish.
I agree its really hard to tell the difference if there is no bright sunshine...

https://sites.google.com/site/lhgroupfleet/lufthansa

You can keep track of it there.

iadadd wrote:

Not sure if this is the correct thread, but when will LH officially transfer its remaining 'Jump' A343s back into the Mainline or elsewhere ?

I was under the impression that Jump ended; however, I'm seeing ADD operated by LH CityLine A340 for S19

The 340s will go back to be operated by mainline as CLH will get up to 10 A319s from LH. AIGN and AIGV seem to be due for the change in MAR and APR this year. The rest will follow probably from autumn on.

A321Lufthansa wrote:

CarbonFibre wrote:

Their six oldest A320s (AIPA - PF) are due to leave the fleet this year.

Their first A321neo (AIEA) is due for delivery on 4th March.

It seems so strange that they remain AIPH - PS flying as they are not much younger.

Actually AIPA-AIPD will leave in 2019,
AIPE-AIPS + AIPY in 2020,
and some more of the rest from 2021 on...

viennafly wrote:

A321Lufthansa wrote:

CarbonFibre wrote:

Their six oldest A320s (AIPA - PF) are due to leave the fleet this year.

Their first A321neo (AIEA) is due for delivery on 4th March.

It seems so strange that they remain AIPH - PS flying as they are not much younger.

Actually AIPA-AIPD will leave in 2019,
AIPE-AIPS + AIPY in 2020,
and some more of the rest from 2021 on...

Insane...

viennafly wrote:

georgemlb wrote:

steman wrote:

According to the usually well informed lh-taufnamen.de we should see the following deliveries in 2019:

A320 CEO : 6
A320 NEO : at least 7, more possible
A321 NEO : 6
A350 : 3

Also 4 more 777F, 2 each for LH Cargo and Aerologic.
The above is only about LH mainline. I´m sure at the end of the year things will have been a bit different, especially concerning the NEO fleet.

G'day all,

Can someone please tell me what's the difference between the 'original new cs' as it appears on D-AIZC and the 'new cs' on D-AIZG? The lh-taufnamen.de is the only website that mentions something like this and they highlight the 'new cs' with a slightly different shade of blue, is this something which also reflects on any slight change on the new LH livery? I've looked elsewhere online but couldn't find any relevant reference.

Thank you.

After they introduced the new color scheme everybody felt like it was looking to blackish, so a new color was introduced being more blueish.
I agree its really hard to tell the difference if there is no bright sunshine...

https://sites.google.com/site/lhgroupfleet/lufthansa

You can keep track of it there.

Thank you very much for the information, indeed I've put two airframes side by side on my monitor but couldn't distinct the difference, this link is indeed useful!

Very nice topic. LH is indeed one (the?) biggest player in EU airlines panorama and a topic on A.net is surely worth reading.

On long haul, I think A343s and A330s will stay longer than the A346s. Too bad for us aviation enthusiasts, but a look at Airfleets says it all.
In my opinion, the trio will be replaced by A359s. There is no need for another type of aircraft in the fleet (B789 or A339) as both have similar performances and capacities as the A359s.
Type rating commonality can be an issue, I don't know if crews can shift from A340s (both versions) and A333s to A359 with small but none suplementary training; surely shifting to the B787 will require a complete new crew training.
Also, I see the B748s and A380s last more than 10 or 15 years. They cannot rely only on A359s and the B77X will not come in short time.

On short haul, I see more A320Family NEOs coming but also some CEOs, as LH Cityline will pass all the ERJs to EN in 4 years, those A319s will come to hand in short time. Plus, Eurowings / Germanwings will grow, and both operate A319s and A320s.

We'll see! Herr Spohr mach uns traumen!

Atm AIPC has more than 56000 cycles and more than 71000 Blh, still going strong, first flight on 23/8/89, and she has the most FH of the LH 320 fleet.

The first A321neo is scheduled to come already in a month. Why were no routes announced yet? Also the capacity there is not so tight as on A320 (180/180 vs 215/240 on A321NX) so may they send them to destinations like Moscow or Lisbon? because the neos (or new A320SLs) don't fly further than Kiev.

A321Lufthansa wrote:

The first A321neo is scheduled to come already in a month. Why were no routes announced yet? Also the capacity there is not so tight as on A320 (180/180 vs 215/240 on A321NX) so may they send them to destinations like Moscow or Lisbon? because the neos (or new A320SLs) don't fly further than Kiev.

Are there any A330 or A346 routes that are around 6, 7 hours from FRA or MUC ? Maybe they could be sent there? I think IKA could do rather well or maybe some African destination.

Blerg wrote:

Have they announced what they plan on doing with the A321neo? Where will they base them? Maybe we will see them on some African missions? Could it make it from FRA to IKA? (naturally if refuelling issues are resolved)

There are no refuelling issues at IKA. At least not when operating a direct flight there...

FatCat wrote:

In my opinion, the trio will be replaced by A359s. There is no need for another type of aircraft in the fleet (B789 or A339) as both have similar performances and capacities as the A359s.

Maybe, but in the long term, I don't believe that the A350 as smallest longhaul plane makes sense for Swiss, Austrian, Brussels, and Eurowings. I think they won't get around the A339 or 787.

FatCat wrote:

On short haul, I see more A320Family NEOs coming but also some CEOs, as LH Cityline will pass all the ERJs to EN in 4 years, those A319s will come to hand in short time. Plus, Eurowings / Germanwings will grow, and both operate A319s and A320s.

It might look crazy at the first look, but I think the 737 Max might be a good complement (as Max 8 or 200 and 10), at least at Eurowings. At the second look it has a couple of advantages. It's probably cheaper than the Airbus, especially the Max10, many flights are really short hops where the 737 has a slight edge, a bit more competition means better prices, and probably Lufty Technik maintains Maxes anyway. Furthermore, many of the A32s advantages are just not needed at least at an LCC, especially the wider cabin and Cargo containerization. And the Max 10 has enough range for most of Eurowings' flights.

A350

Why did LH transfer 1 A319 to LH Cityline?

DALCE wrote:

Why did LH transfer 1 A319 to LH Cityline?

As the E190s & E195s will leave to Air Dolomiti, other aircraft have to be brought in to fill the gap. There are more to follow in the coming months.

A321Lufthansa wrote:

The first A321neo is scheduled to come already in a month. Why were no routes announced yet? Also the capacity there is not so tight as on A320 (180/180 vs 215/240 on A321NX) so may they send them to destinations like Moscow or Lisbon? because the neos (or new A320SLs) don't fly further than Kiev.

Do you know the config the Neo 321s will get?

Any idea of A321neo routes? I'm booked on FRA-MAN with an A321 in May and I'd love for that to become an A321neo.

zkojq wrote:

Any idea of A321neo routes? I'm booked on FRA-MAN with an A321 in May and I'd love for that to become an A321neo.

Doubt that. Would make most operational sense to put it on the longest routes in the network, and that was the initial plan for the A320neo as well. They only put it on the ultra short domestic hops because of the engine problems making it unreliable and keeping it close to home made it easier to replace. I wouldn't expect medium routes like MAN to see it.

aviationaware wrote:

zkojq wrote:

Any idea of A321neo routes? I'm booked on FRA-MAN with an A321 in May and I'd love for that to become an A321neo.

Doubt that. Would make most operational sense to put it on the longest routes in the network, and that was the initial plan for the A320neo as well. They only put it on the ultra short domestic hops because of the engine problems making it unreliable and keeping it close to home made it easier to replace. I wouldn't expect medium routes like MAN to see it.

Main reason is also the config, as they can't provide hot meals, trips like ATH,MAD,DME are not possible (on the neo).

viennafly wrote:

A321Lufthansa wrote:

The first A321neo is scheduled to come already in a month. Why were no routes announced yet? Also the capacity there is not so tight as on A320 (180/180 vs 215/240 on A321NX) so may they send them to destinations like Moscow or Lisbon? because the neos (or new A320SLs) don't fly further than Kiev.

Do you know the config the Neo 321s will get?

I wrote above - CY215. And on ACF-version of A321neo that's not the maximum (max=240) while on 320neo LH has 180 seats, what is the highest capacity.

DUSZRH wrote:

aviationaware wrote:

zkojq wrote:

Any idea of A321neo routes? I'm booked on FRA-MAN with an A321 in May and I'd love for that to become an A321neo.

Doubt that. Would make most operational sense to put it on the longest routes in the network, and that was the initial plan for the A320neo as well. They only put it on the ultra short domestic hops because of the engine problems making it unreliable and keeping it close to home made it easier to replace. I wouldn't expect medium routes like MAN to see it.

Main reason is also the config, as they can't provide hot meals, trips like ATH,MAD,DME are not possible (on the neo).

Really? That's interesting. Even on Embraers there are conditions to heat the meals.

NG263 wrote:

DALCE wrote:

Why did LH transfer 1 A319 to LH Cityline?

As the E190s & E195s will leave to Air Dolomiti, other aircraft have to be brought in to fill the gap. There are more to follow in the coming months.

Will D-AILP and D-AILR get the new livery on transfer to CL? That's a pretty strange solution as both are FRA-based. Are there not enough mainline A319 in MUC?

A321Lufthansa wrote:

viennafly wrote:

A321Lufthansa wrote:

The first A321neo is scheduled to come already in a month. Why were no routes announced yet? Also the capacity there is not so tight as on A320 (180/180 vs 215/240 on A321NX) so may they send them to destinations like Moscow or Lisbon? because the neos (or new A320SLs) don't fly further than Kiev.

Do you know the config the Neo 321s will get?

I wrote above - CY215. And on ACF-version of A321neo that's not the maximum (max=240) while on 320neo LH has 180 seats, what is the highest capacity.

Wrong, max capacity on the neo is 189 I think. U2 operates with 186.

DUSZRH wrote:

A321Lufthansa wrote:

viennafly wrote:

Do you know the config the Neo 321s will get?

I wrote above - CY215. And on ACF-version of A321neo that's not the maximum (max=240) while on 320neo LH has 180 seats, what is the highest capacity.

Wrong, max capacity on the neo is 189 I think. U2 operates with 186.

186 but that's with smaller galleys while A321neo ACF features maximum 240 seats with normal ones.

A321Lufthansa wrote:

NG263 wrote:

DALCE wrote:

Why did LH transfer 1 A319 to LH Cityline?

As the E190s & E195s will leave to Air Dolomiti, other aircraft have to be brought in to fill the gap. There are more to follow in the coming months.

Will D-AILP and D-AILR get the new livery on transfer to CL? That's a pretty strange solution as both are FRA-based. Are there not enough mainline A319 in MUC?

That is out of my knowledge. Viennafly with his insight might be the better person to ask.

First TUI B737 in full EW colours:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/shanair/46114009865/