pusserchef
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Erickson Skycrane Crashes in Victoria (Australia)

Mon Jan 28, 2019 10:04 pm

Last night (28th Jan 2019) an Erickson Skycrane waterbomber crashed whilst night flying and water refilling whilst in hover over a dam in the Gippsland area where theres been bushfires. All three crew onboard escaped and swam ashore. The aircrafts callsign was HT342 (i could not find the rego, sorry). Such a major blow, we've been having these good ol' Skycranes coming to Australia for many years assisting in the bushfires. This aircraft was 1 of 10 that are currently fighting these fires 24hrs a day.
Regards
James Smith

Flown in A300B4, A310, A320, A321, A332, A346, B717, B722, B733, B734, B737, B738, B743, B744, B762, B763, B77W, B788, F27, F70, F100, S360, B212, AS-350B, S-61, C152, C172, A22LS.
 
joffie
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Re: Erickson Skycrane Crashes in Victoria (Australia)

Mon Jan 28, 2019 11:02 pm

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/law-o ... 3634ff9ae0

Photo in the link from the local media. Sorry don't know how to attach.
 
ABpositive
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Re: Erickson Skycrane Crashes in Victoria (Australia)

Mon Jan 28, 2019 11:08 pm

Given how many flights these have been flying over many years of service, I'm amazed this is the first time such an incident has occurred.
 
WayexTDI
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Re: Erickson Skycrane Crashes in Victoria (Australia)

Mon Jan 28, 2019 11:24 pm

joffie wrote:
https://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/law-order/firebombing-helicopter-crashes-near-benalla/news-story/933675bdfe5fe844f911413634ff9ae0

Photo in the link from the local media. Sorry don't know how to attach.

Can't see article, must be registered
 
 
travaz
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Re: Erickson Skycrane Crashes in Victoria (Australia)

Tue Jan 29, 2019 12:36 am

It is a dangerous business. Trying to refill in that canyon at night is a risky deal in broad daylight. I have worked with those guys on fires and they are the best of the best. Their record is exemplary. I will be interested in what happened. Go to Youtube and search if you want to see some amazing flying.
 
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Revelation
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Re: Erickson Skycrane Crashes in Victoria (Australia)

Tue Jan 29, 2019 12:56 am

MooLor wrote:

Why does the article say the aircraft crashed into the dam when it really crashed into the reservoir?

If it crashed in to the dam, no one would be swimming to the shore.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
747Whale
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Re: Erickson Skycrane Crashes in Victoria (Australia)

Tue Jan 29, 2019 1:28 am

ABpositive wrote:
Given how many flights these have been flying over many years of service, I'm amazed this is the first time such an incident has occurred.


It's not.
 
MooLor
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Re: Erickson Skycrane Crashes in Victoria (Australia)

Tue Jan 29, 2019 1:32 am

Revelation wrote:
MooLor wrote:

Why does the article say the aircraft crashed into the dam when it really crashed into the reservoir?

If it crashed in to the dam, no one would be swimming to the shore.


In Australia a reservoir is called a dam. The big concrete thing is called a 'dam wall'. Could be one of those adaptations of phrases, could be the correct local terminology. Reservoirs seem to be smaller urban holding lakes / dams, but the technical difference between 'dam' and 'reservoir' is beyond me.
 
Pyrex
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Re: Erickson Skycrane Crashes in Victoria (Australia)

Tue Jan 29, 2019 2:30 am

Surprised they were doing this at night - in Portugal firefighting aircraft and helicopters generally do not operate after sunset. It is a pretty difficult job even when visibility is good...
Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
 
Waterbomber
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Re: Erickson Skycrane Crashes in Victoria (Australia)

Tue Jan 29, 2019 7:20 am

Pyrex wrote:
Surprised they were doing this at night - in Portugal firefighting aircraft and helicopters generally do not operate after sunset. It is a pretty difficult job even when visibility is good...


Yeah some countries are against it and others authorise night flights with night vision goggles and restricted maneuvering/slower operations.

I think that there is nothing wrong with night flying but only if there is enough margin and the pilots are used to long night shifts.
The Skycrane needs to get pretty low over the water to get enough suction and one bad eye-hand coordination or bad depth-perception and you're in the water and taking on water, ie sinking. Before you know it, no amount of collective can get you out.
This could be an explanation but there could be dozens of other.
Glad the crew is safe, the rest is talk.
Waterbombing is a risky operation by nature, but yeah, a Skycrane is a design compromise so even more so. Packing 10 tons of water on a relatively light helicopter brings efficiency but also added risk.
 
TN486
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Re: Erickson Skycrane Crashes in Victoria (Australia)

Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:27 am

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-01-29/ ... m/10757292

I would suggest Waterbomber could be on to something here. Glad those professionals made it one piece.
remember the t shirt "I own an airline"on the front - "qantas" on the back
 
747Whale
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Re: Erickson Skycrane Crashes in Victoria (Australia)

Tue Jan 29, 2019 12:12 pm

The fire environment can be a hazardous place in normal operations. Add to it operations in low light, complicating existing issues with terrain, wind, low visibility and all the other hazards that attend a fire from unseen obstacles to turbulence to air traffic, the potential for mishap can only increase. I say that from the perspective of one who has worked a lot of long fire seasons in his career, in the air, and on the ground.

It's gratifying and a relief that all involved got out not only with their lives, but in good shape. Most often, this is not the case.
 
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Revelation
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Re: Erickson Skycrane Crashes in Victoria (Australia)

Tue Jan 29, 2019 12:13 pm

MooLor wrote:
Revelation wrote:
MooLor wrote:

Why does the article say the aircraft crashed into the dam when it really crashed into the reservoir?

If it crashed in to the dam, no one would be swimming to the shore.


In Australia a reservoir is called a dam. The big concrete thing is called a 'dam wall'. Could be one of those adaptations of phrases, could be the correct local terminology. Reservoirs seem to be smaller urban holding lakes / dams, but the technical difference between 'dam' and 'reservoir' is beyond me.

Thanks. Yes, many in the US when we say "let's go down to the dam" we are talking about the reservoir, but in this context the distinction matters and I'd hope the press would do better.

A plane crashing into a dam would almost certainly be fatal.

For the record, Wikipedia says:

A dam is a barrier that stops or restricts the flow of water or underground streams. Reservoirs created by dams not only suppress floods but also provide water for activities such as irrigation, human consumption, industrial use, aquaculture, and navigability.

Where I grew up there were a lot of flood control dams and often times in the case of Thompson Dam we'd say "Let's go to Thompson Lake" if we wanted to go swimming or boating or "Let's go to Thompson Dam" if we wanted to fish off the dam itself.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
pusserchef
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Re: Erickson Skycrane Crashes in Victoria (Australia)

Fri Feb 01, 2019 2:57 am

So the aircraft in question was S-64E N173AC "Christine".
The other five Skycranes in Australia are still grounded until further notice and investigations.
Regards
James Smith

Flown in A300B4, A310, A320, A321, A332, A346, B717, B722, B733, B734, B737, B738, B743, B744, B762, B763, B77W, B788, F27, F70, F100, S360, B212, AS-350B, S-61, C152, C172, A22LS.
 
Gemuser
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Re: Erickson Skycrane Crashes in Victoria (Australia)

Fri Feb 01, 2019 11:43 am

[quote="Revelation" Why does the article say the aircraft crashed into the dam when it really crashed into the reservoir?
[snip]
Thanks. Yes, many in the US when we say "let's go down to the dam" we are talking about the reservoir, but in this context the distinction matters and I'd hope the press would do better.
A plane crashing into a dam would almost certainly be fatal.
For the record, Wikipedia says:
A dam is a barrier that stops or restricts the flow of water or underground streams. Reservoirs created by dams not only suppress floods but also provide water for activities such as irrigation, human consumption, industrial use, aquaculture, and navigability.
Where I grew up there were a lot of flood control dams and often times in the case of Thompson Dam we'd say "Let's go to Thompson Lake" if we wanted to go swimming or boating or "Let's go to Thompson Dam" if we wanted to fish off the dam itself.[/quote]

Why would you expect the Australian press to uses the USA use of the word? In this context "dam" is correct usage in Australian English. Most all media. around the world use local word meanings in their stories, including, most especially in the USA. For example your use of the word "entree" meaning the main course is particularly galling, especially as the word comes into English from Norman French where it means "entry/first".

I have a real problem with an American criticising other countries use of English considering the crimes against the English language by Americans!

Gemuser
 
747Whale
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Re: Erickson Skycrane Crashes in Victoria (Australia)

Fri Feb 01, 2019 12:22 pm

pusserchef wrote:
So the aircraft in question was S-64E N173AC "Christine".
The other five Skycranes in Australia are still grounded until further notice and investigations.


I've been through it before with other mishaps on fires. As an operator or sometimes as a fleet we were temporarily grounded, but it didn't last long. The only exception I can recall was the 2002 loss of two heavy tankers; both types were permanently removed from service and dramatic changes took place in the industry.

In this case, the crew is safe and can give a full account, and the aircraft is intact; the only question is safety for the remainder of the fleet. This is easily answered and a return to service quick and painless.
 
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Revelation
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Re: Erickson Skycrane Crashes in Victoria (Australia)

Fri Feb 01, 2019 1:59 pm

Gemuser wrote:
I have a real problem with an American criticising other countries use of English considering the crimes against the English language by Americans!

Awww, we've been friends for a long time, sorry if I caused offense.

I did look for an Australian wiki/reference to try to get a better feel for whether this was just lazy journalism or if it was the proper local usage, and found none.

Thus I was left with the same kind of feeling you had with regard to the use of the word entree in the US.

How would an Australian describe an aircraft impacting the barrier that holds back the reservoir of (what Wikipedia calls) a dam?

Is it still crashing in to a dam?
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
WayexTDI
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Re: Erickson Skycrane Crashes in Victoria (Australia)

Fri Feb 01, 2019 2:30 pm

Revelation wrote:
Gemuser wrote:
I have a real problem with an American criticising other countries use of English considering the crimes against the English language by Americans!

Awww, we've been friends for a long time, sorry if I caused offense.

I did look for an Australian wiki/reference to try to get a better feel for whether this was just lazy journalism or if it was the proper local usage, and found none.

Thus I was left with the same kind of feeling you had with regard to the use of the word entree in the US.

How would an Australian describe an aircraft impacting the barrier that holds back the reservoir of (what Wikipedia calls) a dam?

Is it still crashing in to a dam?

Crashing into a dam wall
 
Gemuser
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Re: Erickson Skycrane Crashes in Victoria (Australia)

Fri Feb 01, 2019 10:48 pm

Revelation wrote:
Gemuser wrote:
I have a real problem with an American criticising other countries use of English considering the crimes against the English language by Americans!

Awww, we've been friends for a long time, sorry if I caused offense.


Ahhh that's OK,we can still be friends :-)

How would an Australian describe an aircraft impacting the barrier that holds back the reservoir of (what Wikipedia calls) a dam?

As Moolor said in reply 9 "crashed into the dam wall"

Gemuser
 
concordeforever
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Re: Erickson Skycrane Crashes in Victoria (Australia)

Fri Feb 01, 2019 10:59 pm

As opposed to "Crashed into the DAMN wall !"
 
F9Animal
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Re: Erickson Skycrane Crashes in Victoria (Australia)

Sat Feb 02, 2019 12:14 am

Dam it guys! LOL!!! So thankful the crew survived. As others have mentioned, these men and women that do this job have balls of steel. It amazes me how they are able to risk so much. I mean, imagine having to put it down near a major fire? Or, end up in the water? Hopefully they can get the remainder flying again soon!

How bad is the fire season on Australia right now?
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
747Whale
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Re: Erickson Skycrane Crashes in Victoria (Australia)

Sat Feb 02, 2019 12:54 am

I've had the experience of putting an aircraft down on a fire, following an engine failure, and have a lot of fire seasons in the logbooks.

It's not a daredevil profession. Having done it a while, I don't know that I'd describe it in terms of testicular fortitude so much as a group of men and women pursuing a common goal in a professional manner.

There is nothing better than the smell of smoke in the cockpit.
 
Gemuser
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Re: Erickson Skycrane Crashes in Victoria (Australia)

Sat Feb 02, 2019 1:00 am

F9Animal wrote:
Dam it guys! LOL!!! So thankful the crew survived. As others have mentioned, these men and women that do this job have balls of steel. It amazes me how they are able to risk so much. I mean, imagine having to put it down near a major fire? Or, end up in the water? Hopefully they can get the remainder flying again soon!

How bad is the fire season on Australia right now?

Very, very bad fire season this summer all over the country, even in Tasmania, which while not unknown is unusual. In contrast the Far North Queensland [FNQ] coast is under flood waters!

Gemuser
 
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Flyingdevil737
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Re: Erickson Skycrane Crashes in Victoria (Australia)

Sat Feb 02, 2019 3:22 am

Gemuser wrote:
F9Animal wrote:
Dam it guys! LOL!!! So thankful the crew survived. As others have mentioned, these men and women that do this job have balls of steel. It amazes me how they are able to risk so much. I mean, imagine having to put it down near a major fire? Or, end up in the water? Hopefully they can get the remainder flying again soon!

How bad is the fire season on Australia right now?

Very, very bad fire season this summer all over the country, even in Tasmania, which while not unknown is unusual. In contrast the Far North Queensland [FNQ] coast is under flood waters!

Gemuser


I’m living in southern Tasmania near some of those REALLY BAD fires. My house is surrounded by smoke every day, and just over the hill across the river is one of the larger fires.

(A note to point out: The other day, it was SNOWING on the fireground with the fire burning quite fiercely only 10-15 meters away....)
And this, ladies and gentlemen, is the very first Fokker airplane built in the world. The Dutch call it the mother Fokker.
 
747Whale
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Re: Erickson Skycrane Crashes in Victoria (Australia)

Sat Feb 02, 2019 8:07 am

Flyingdevil737 wrote:

(A note to point out: The other day, it was SNOWING on the fireground with the fire burning quite fiercely only 10-15 meters away....)


A few years ago, my first fire of the season was a lightning fire. It was wind driven, and active. It was intensive and one those that I wish I'd been able to film; some really great shots would have been possible. By the time we ended that day, it was snowing and the fire was contained in snow storm.

We got dispatched to a fire one year in A C-130, but cancelled before we got off the ground. We taxied back into place and shut down. The tanker base manager met us at the door and apologized. The fire, he said, had been on a ski resort mountainside; personnel at the resort put the fire out, with a snow machine. I got released to fly home that season during a heavy blizzard.
 
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SomebodyInTLS
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Re: Erickson Skycrane Crashes in Victoria (Australia)

Sat Feb 02, 2019 8:50 am

Gemuser wrote:
Why would you expect the Australian press to uses the USA use of the word?


To be fair, if that really is an Australian colloquialism it's not one the rest of the world knows about and is definitely wrong to the eyes of any other native English speakers. Dam being a Dutch word meaning a blockage (e.g. Amsterdam being where they blocked the Amstel river). Incidentally, the game chequers (or American "checkers") is "dammen" in Dutch - since the aim is to block ("check") the opponent.

I have a real problem with an American criticising other countries use of English considering the crimes against the English language by Americans.!


Ha ha... No disagreement there. Either reform *all* the spelling or STFU! :lol:

And stop inflicting your mangled English on the rest of the world with any American sourced software or website. That definitely *is* an insult... :mad:
"As with most things related to aircraft design, it's all about the trade-offs and much more nuanced than A.net likes to make out."
 
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Revelation
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Re: Erickson Skycrane Crashes in Victoria (Australia)

Sat Feb 02, 2019 2:34 pm

MooLor wrote:
In Australia a reservoir is called a dam. The big concrete thing is called a 'dam wall'.

WayexTDI wrote:

Gemuser wrote:
As Moolor said in reply 9 "crashed into the dam wall"

Thanks to everyone for setting me straight.

concordeforever wrote:
As opposed to "Crashed into the DAMN wall !"

Thanks for typing in what we were all thinking! :biggrin:

Gemuser wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Awww, we've been friends for a long time, sorry if I caused offense.

Ahhh that's OK,we can still be friends :-)

Glad that's sorted! :bigthumbsup:

747Whale wrote:
It's not a daredevil profession. Having done it a while, I don't know that I'd describe it in terms of testicular fortitude so much as a group of men and women pursuing a common goal in a professional manner.

Very good point as well. Still, it takes more courage to fly in such conditions than it does to drive to the office and sit there for 8 hours. Yet that's one of its rewards, not sitting in an office for 8 hours! Also it must be a good test of skill, and provide satisfaction when it is done well.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
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Revelation
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Re: Erickson Skycrane Crashes in Victoria (Australia)

Sat Feb 02, 2019 5:26 pm

SomebodyInTLS wrote:
Ha ha... No disagreement there. Either reform *all* the spelling or STFU! :lol:

I have to say I prefer rumour to rumor and colour to color. I'm not as fond of centre rather than center or analogue rather than analog.

Some common ones: https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/spell ... d-spelling

SomebodyInTLS wrote:
And stop inflicting your mangled English on the rest of the world with any American sourced software or website. That definitely *is* an insult... :mad:

If only Alan Turing, Donald Davies and Timothy Berners-Lee made more of their opportunities..
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
747Whale
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Re: Erickson Skycrane Crashes in Victoria (Australia)

Sat Feb 02, 2019 11:54 pm

Revelation wrote:
Very good point as well. Still, it takes more courage to fly in such conditions than it does to drive to the office and sit there for 8 hours. Yet that's one of its rewards, not sitting in an office for 8 hours! Also it must be a good test of skill, and provide satisfaction when it is done well.


More people are lost to boredom in aerial firefighting than to mishaps.

There is a lot more sitting and waiting than actual fighting fire.

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