Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
Thibault973 wrote:So what do you guys think ? This is really thinking outside the box from Iberia, will it pay off or does this has fail written all over it ?
B8887 wrote:..
Champagne/ Reims on the other side, Paris/ Disneyland 35 min away by HSR...
B8887
LAX772LR wrote:Just makes you wonder what market they're really trying to reach.
Thibault973 wrote:B8887 wrote:..
Champagne/ Reims on the other side, Paris/ Disneyland 35 min away by HSR...
B8887
Vatry airport is 25km away from Chalons HSR station which only sees 2 TGV per day anyway and still it takes 1h06 to get from Chalons to Paris. So that's at least a 2h journey.
If you want to go the Champagne/Reims route, which is 70km away from the airport, it's still a 2h train+bus ride.
Then you have a private bus that goes directly from the airport to Paris and takes about 2h30 to complete the 160km.
upperdeckfan wrote:This is an 100% LCC movement by IB
3w doesn't target any feeder traffic in MAD and if I understood correctly it will only operate in the summer season.LAX772LR wrote:Just makes you wonder what market they're really trying to reach.
One have to guess they are trying to reach LCC market, can't think of anything else.
LAX772LR wrote:Just makes you wonder what market they're really trying to reach.
Kadish wrote:Not the route that many people would have thought but at least is a change in IB opening weird routes taking into account the conservative they are.
I wish them luck
SCQ83 wrote:Air Nostrum is neither Iberia nor IAG.
SCQ83 wrote:Kadish wrote:Not the route that many people would have thought but at least is a change in IB opening weird routes taking into account the conservative they are.
I wish them luck
Air Nostrum is neither Iberia nor IAG.
SCQ83 wrote:Kadish wrote:Not the route that many people would have thought but at least is a change in IB opening weird routes taking into account the conservative they are.
I wish them luck
Air Nostrum is neither Iberia nor IAG.
PlymSpotter wrote:Actually, as a franchisee operating Iberia Regional services, they are Iberia. The two parties engage in mutual decision making on routes, frequencies and equipment to maximise the return to both parties.
SCQ83 wrote:PlymSpotter wrote:Actually, as a franchisee operating Iberia Regional services, they are Iberia. The two parties engage in mutual decision making on routes, frequencies and equipment to maximise the return to both parties.
They are not Iberia, technically or not.
Btw there are quite a few non-Madrid routes where Vueling competes directly with YW. So let's say Air Nostrum starts a route, Vueling will start the same route to "out" YW. This is quite common in transversal routes in Spain (e.g. Northern Spain - Islands / Mediterranean).
SCQ83 wrote:PlymSpotter wrote:Actually, as a franchisee operating Iberia Regional services, they are Iberia. The two parties engage in mutual decision making on routes, frequencies and equipment to maximise the return to both parties.
They are not Iberia, technically or not.
Btw there are quite a few non-Madrid routes where Vueling competes directly with YW. So let's say Air Nostrum starts a route, Vueling will start the same route to "out" YW. This is quite common in transversal routes in Spain (e.g. Northern Spain - Islands / Mediterranean).
dfdubflyer wrote:Perhaps it seems random now (okay for sure does) but maybe IB group (inc. Air Nostrum) has decided there is opportunity in targeting secondary/tertiary French airports to their substantial MAD connection opportunities to sunny destinations.
SCQ83 wrote:PlymSpotter wrote:Actually, as a franchisee operating Iberia Regional services, they are Iberia. The two parties engage in mutual decision making on routes, frequencies and equipment to maximise the return to both parties.
They are not Iberia, technically or not.
a350lover wrote:
In the past, Air Nostrum served some larger markets, namely Clermont Ferrand, Perpignan, etc. Before Vatry they could have added much more realistic markets like Reims, Limoges, Carcassone, Brest, Rennes.... but Vatry?
euroflyer wrote:They are roughly a yearly 1.2 millions Spanish visiting Disneyland, they are the 2nd largest foreign visitor origin. I guess it's not far fetched to assume that most of them come by plane, so if you plan some good partnerships with travel agencies throughout Spain (especially in cities linked to MAD but not to PAR) and dedicated connections between the airport and the resort, it can create a sufficient level of demand.
I'm not so sure why they keep 2 out of the 3 frequencies in low season though, this is going to hurt
alric8 wrote:Really there are two scenarios which causes this flight to be successful:
1. Vatry becomes well advertised as a kind of 'Gateway to Disneyland' airport which means many passengers heading there decide to come via Vatry. Currently XCR is nowhere near busy enough or well connected enough for that though.
SCQ83 wrote:euroflyer wrote:They are roughly a yearly 1.2 millions Spanish visiting Disneyland, they are the 2nd largest foreign visitor origin. I guess it's not far fetched to assume that most of them come by plane, so if you plan some good partnerships with travel agencies throughout Spain (especially in cities linked to MAD but not to PAR) and dedicated connections between the airport and the resort, it can create a sufficient level of demand.
I'm not so sure why they keep 2 out of the 3 frequencies in low season though, this is going to hurt
Never been to Eurodisney myself, but I guess it is a relatively year-round destination. I guess the main issue is school days.
Btw Iberia.com does not allow to book connections for this flight (only MAD-XCR). I tried XCR-JFK or XCR-SCQ and it shows no availability. So there is no discussion this is only about local PAX (travelling to Eurodisney).
lowfareair wrote:alric8 wrote:Really there are two scenarios which causes this flight to be successful:
1. Vatry becomes well advertised as a kind of 'Gateway to Disneyland' airport which means many passengers heading there decide to come via Vatry.
I can't see this happening as 1) It is nowhere near Disneyland and 2) CDG has much better connectivity to Disneyland. It's like calling SWF the gateway to Times Square.
SheikhDjibouti wrote:lowfareair wrote:alric8 wrote:Really there are two scenarios which causes this flight to be successful:
1. Vatry becomes well advertised as a kind of 'Gateway to Disneyland' airport which means many passengers heading there decide to come via Vatry.
I can't see this happening as 1) It is nowhere near Disneyland and 2) CDG has much better connectivity to Disneyland. It's like calling SWF the gateway to Times Square.
You are making the dangerous assumption that the general public know exactly where XCR is.
Ryanair sell it as "Paris-Vatry" precisely because the opposite is more often true.
As I pointed out in a recent thread; they are dealing with a modern generation who use sat-navs for everything, and view maps as old-fashioned.
Until word spreads on social media pointing out the inconvenient aspects of Vatry, only av geeks and smarter travellers will see these problems.
SheikhDjibouti wrote:You are making the dangerous assumption that the general public know exactly where XCR is.
Ryanair sell it as "Paris-Vatry" precisely because the opposite is more often true..
SCQ83 wrote:SheikhDjibouti wrote:You are making the dangerous assumption that the general public know exactly where XCR is.
Ryanair sell it as "Paris-Vatry" precisely because the opposite is more often true..
It is clear that Air Nostrum is not trying to sell Vatry as Paris. They name it as "Chalons Vatry Champagne region (XCR)".
In any case most posters here just forget how inconvenient CDG is in terms of access (e.g. by coach). Btw Iberia flies MAD-ORY (although there is a daily MAD-CDG on Vueling). From ORY to Disneyland is quite a long way, specially if you are stuck in Paris traffic.
I see the target as families that (in some cases) rarely travel or are used to large metropolis (MAD is the reference airport now for pretty much anywhere in Spain other than the coastal regions; so from a family from Zamora or Cuenca, MAD is the airport to fly from). So XCR is far more relaxing even if it takes 45 minutes longer by coach than flying to ORY. It is not the end of the world.
Thibault973 wrote:How is CDG inconvenient ? If you live near a subway/rer station not only is it super convenient but the RER is at no extra-cost for the 4.5 millions pass navigo holders (out of 9.5 millions francilien).
And IB express operates twice daily to CDG from MAD. VY is supposed to go twice daily too (it was anouced a few months aga but has yet to happen).
a350lover wrote:In the past, Air Nostrum served some larger markets, namely Clermont Ferrand, Perpignan, etc. Before Vatry they could have added much more realistic markets like Reims, Limoges, Carcassone, Brest, Rennes.... but Vatry?
EddieDude wrote:Please excuse the ignorance. Does Reims have a proper airport, or are Reims and Épernay served better by XCR?
a350lover wrote:You caught me! I meant Rennes. Sorry!
EddieDude wrote:But my question is legit. Does Reims have an airport that is nearer than XCR, or do people from Reims, Épernay, etc. rely on XCR for air travel???
EddieDude wrote:a350lover wrote:You caught me! I meant Rennes. Sorry!
Haha. No worries.
But my question is legit. Does Reims have an airport that is nearer than XCR, or do people from Reims, Épernay, etc. rely on XCR for air travel???