JoeCanuck
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Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Tue Jan 29, 2019 9:36 pm

****MODS...PLEASE DELETE IF THIS TOPIC HAS ALREADY BEEN DISCUSSED****

A woman who was seated between two big passengers, was booted from a United flight for being rude to those passengers and complaining about being squished.

https://canoe.com/news/world/two-big-pi ... g-meltdown

“Oh my goodness! I don’t know how I’m going to do this for the next four hours,” the woman can be heard saying to someone on her cellphone. “This is just impossible cause they’re squishing me. Like, friggin’ just unbelievable. At least they’ll keep me warm.

“I can’t sit here because they’re both so big on left and right. I can’t even sit here.”


The details are somewhat sketchy but the problem of people intruding into other seat spaces seems to be getting more prevalent. My perspective is that when I buy a ticket, (literally renting that seat for the flight), I am entitled to all of the room for which I have paid. I am completely ambivalent to another person's size as long as it doesn't intrude into my space. I'm selfish that way.

To me, it's no different than anything else I rent. If I have paid for a hotel room...I expect to be able to use the entire room...not to have someone else occupy any of what is MY space for the duration of the period for which I have paid.

It's that simple. I am entitled to get and use what is mine.
What the...?
 
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GCT64
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Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Tue Jan 29, 2019 9:44 pm

I may or may not have used the same words or approach to resolving it as the woman, but I am absolutely in her corner on objecting to being in the middle seat squashed between two fat people.
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bigjku
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Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Tue Jan 29, 2019 9:44 pm

Lady was rude about it but wasn’t wrong. If you don’t fit buy two seats.
 
strfyr51
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Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Tue Jan 29, 2019 9:49 pm

I saw this item this morning. The woman was as big as the people she was sitting between. Just find it interesting that she was a white woman sitting between 2 Black people and wanted to move. I once had a white woman in first class who didn't want me to sit beside her. Come to find out? She was also an airline employee and she was junior to me. So? They kicked her out of First class and upgraded somebody Else. The Problem was? I had the window seat and didn't want to trade.
 
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gatibosgru
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Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:01 pm

No one should verbally abuse anyone. Glad she was removed.
@DadCelo
 
JoeCanuck
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Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:14 pm

strfyr51 wrote:
I saw this item this morning. The woman was as big as the people she was sitting between. Just find it interesting that she was a white woman sitting between 2 Black people and wanted to move. I once had a white woman in first class who didn't want me to sit beside her. Come to find out? She was also an airline employee and she was junior to me. So? They kicked her out of First class and upgraded somebody Else. The Problem was? I had the window seat and didn't want to trade.


From the article, it doesn't seem like this lady has any problem speaking her mind, so if she had a problem with the race of the other passengers, I have no doubts we would have heard about it.

Until we hear otherwise, I'm going to assume this was a problem of size, not race.

gatibosgru wrote:
No one should verbally abuse anyone. Glad she was removed.


I totally agree that she could have been more, (or even a little), diplomatic...but if her space was being usurped by her fellow passengers, she absolutely had a valid complaint.

The thing is...I don't blame the passengers...I blame the airlines. They know the size of their seats and yet they set no standards regarding the size of people who can comfortably fit in them. When tickets are purchased, seat size should be clearly stated so passengers are aware of how much space they are allotted.

It's not just a social issue...it's also a safety issue. Airline flying itself is not a right. Not everybody can fit in every airline seat, the same way that not everyone can fit in every car or pair of pants.

What is, (or should be), a right, is being able to use all of the space you pay for.
Last edited by JoeCanuck on Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.
What the...?
 
ual777
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Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:18 pm

strfyr51 wrote:
I saw this item this morning. The woman was as big as the people she was sitting between. Just find it interesting that she was a white woman sitting between 2 Black people and wanted to move. I once had a white woman in first class who didn't want me to sit beside her. Come to find out? She was also an airline employee and she was junior to me. So? They kicked her out of First class and upgraded somebody Else. The Problem was? I had the window seat and didn't want to trade.


I'll disagree. The other two passengers are clearly pouring into the middle seat. Whats interesting is that they are flying together but didn't book seats next to each other. Thats red flag #1.

The lady asking for a different seat is an absolute jerk though. I wouldn't want to sit there either, but it doesn't justify calling someone a pig.
Last edited by ual777 on Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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TheOldDude
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Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:18 pm

JoeCanuck wrote:
The details are somewhat sketchy but the problem of people intruding into other seat spaces seems to be getting more prevalent.


With seat space getting smaller and people getting larger it's no surprise that the intrusion problem is getting more prevalent. How the airlines address the issue will be interesting. If they inconvenience or target people of size in a solution they risk reputational damage from an increasing part of the population. If they do nothing, they will have to deplane more people who voice displeasure with intrusion and risk reputational damage from that as well as creating a perception that they consciously do not deliver what they sell -- a complete seat. Neither works in their favor.
 
Jetty
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Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:27 pm

ual777 wrote:
The other two passengers are clearly pouring into the middle seat. Whats interesting is that they are flying together but didn't book seats next to each other. Thats red flag #1.

I do that all the time when travelling with a partner, and I'm not even close to a POS. It increases the chances of having an empty middle seat which is nice regardless of your size. If the middle seat does get booked that person is always happy to move to one of either sides so you still get to sit together. Thus not a ref flag per se, but they should have offered the lady to sit at the galley so she would be intruded from only one side.
 
UpNAWAy
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Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:28 pm

ual777 wrote:
strfyr51 wrote:
I saw this item this morning. The woman was as big as the people she was sitting between. Just find it interesting that she was a white woman sitting between 2 Black people and wanted to move. I once had a white woman in first class who didn't want me to sit beside her. Come to find out? She was also an airline employee and she was junior to me. So? They kicked her out of First class and upgraded somebody Else. The Problem was? I had the window seat and didn't want to trade.


I'll disagree. The other two passengers are clearly pouring into the middle seat. Whats interesting is that they are flying together but didn't book seats next to each other. Thats red flag #1.

The lady asking for a different seat is an absolute jerk though. I wouldn't want to sit there either, but it doesn't justify calling someone a pig.



Me and the misses book most of our flights isle and window. If full I usually trade my window for the middle...
 
jupiter2
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Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:31 pm

JoeCanuck wrote:
****MODS...PLEASE DELETE IF THIS TOPIC HAS ALREADY BEEN DISCUSSED****

A woman who was seated between two big passengers, was booted from a United flight for being rude to those passengers and complaining about being squished.

https://canoe.com/news/world/two-big-pi ... g-meltdown

“Oh my goodness! I don’t know how I’m going to do this for the next four hours,” the woman can be heard saying to someone on her cellphone. “This is just impossible cause they’re squishing me. Like, friggin’ just unbelievable. At least they’ll keep me warm.

“I can’t sit here because they’re both so big on left and right. I can’t even sit here.”


The details are somewhat sketchy but the problem of people intruding into other seat spaces seems to be getting more prevalent. My perspective is that when I buy a ticket, (literally renting that seat for the flight), I am entitled to all of the room for which I have paid. I am completely ambivalent to another person's size as long as it doesn't intrude into my space. I'm selfish that way.

To me, it's no different than anything else I rent. If I have paid for a hotel room...I expect to be able to use the entire room...not to have someone else occupy any of what is MY space for the duration of the period for which I have paid.

It's that simple. I am entitled to get and use what is mine.


Of course you're right, you should be entitle to what you pay for, in this case, that seat without having to worry about intrusion from others. On the other hand, there is a right way and wrong way to get your complaint across and being the loud mouth drama queen this woman was, is not the right way.

Mind you, I sympathise with her, I'm large, but I fit neatly into the space provided, even so, I wouldn't want to be between two versions of me, never mind having overflowing flesh invading what space you do have.
 
WayexTDI
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Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:34 pm

JoeCanuck wrote:
The thing is...I don't blame the passengers...I blame the airlines. They know the size of their seats and yet they set no standards regarding the size of people who can comfortably fit in them. When tickets are purchased, seat size should be clearly stated so passengers are aware of how much space they are allotted.

It's not just a social issue...it's also a safety issue. Airline flying itself is not a right. Not everybody can fit in every airline seat, the same way that not everyone can fit in every car or pair of pants.

What is, (or should be), a right, is being able to use all of the space you pay for.

You are correct in saying that other passengers should not intrude in the seat space you're been assigned to.

In this case, the female passenger who did the videotaping (and called the inconvenienced pax a bitch by the way) claimed she was used to traveling; so, she should have known she didn't fit completely in the seat assigned to her and needed to "borrow" from the seat next to her.
 
ual777
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Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:34 pm

Jetty wrote:
ual777 wrote:
The other two passengers are clearly pouring into the middle seat. Whats interesting is that they are flying together but didn't book seats next to each other. Thats red flag #1.

I do that all the time when travelling with a partner, and I'm not even close to a POS. It increases the chances of having an empty middle seat which is nice regardless of your size. If the middle seat does get booked that person is always happy to move to one of either sides so you still get to sit together. Thus not a ref flag per se, but they should have offered the lady to sit at the galley so she would be intruded from only one side.


I've encountered it once sitting in a middle seat. The couple proceeded to talk across me for 4 hours. Good times lol.
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Jetty
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Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:37 pm

ual777 wrote:
Jetty wrote:
ual777 wrote:
The other two passengers are clearly pouring into the middle seat. Whats interesting is that they are flying together but didn't book seats next to each other. Thats red flag #1.

I do that all the time when travelling with a partner, and I'm not even close to a POS. It increases the chances of having an empty middle seat which is nice regardless of your size. If the middle seat does get booked that person is always happy to move to one of either sides so you still get to sit together. Thus not a ref flag per se, but they should have offered the lady to sit at the galley so she would be intruded from only one side.


I've encountered it once sitting in a middle seat. The couple proceeded to talk across me for 4 hours. Good times lol.

:shock: That's weird. Me and everyone I know does this with the intention of offering the middle person the option to sit on the side of their choice.
 
IADCA
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Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:38 pm

Jetty wrote:
ual777 wrote:
The other two passengers are clearly pouring into the middle seat. Whats interesting is that they are flying together but didn't book seats next to each other. Thats red flag #1.

I do that all the time when travelling with a partner, and I'm not even close to a POS. It increases the chances of having an empty middle seat which is nice regardless of your size. If the middle seat does get booked that person is always happy to move to one of either sides so you still get to sit together. Thus not a ref flag per se, but they should have offered the lady to sit at the galley so she would be intruded from only one side.


Same here. I have sympathy for this passenger's predicament, but not her behavior. What they did was a little rude, but no more, and I'll give them the benefit of the doubt: there would be no way I was going to give that woman an aisle or window once she started popping off.
 
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Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:39 pm

Jetty wrote:
ual777 wrote:
Jetty wrote:
I do that all the time when travelling with a partner, and I'm not even close to a POS. It increases the chances of having an empty middle seat which is nice regardless of your size. If the middle seat does get booked that person is always happy to move to one of either sides so you still get to sit together. Thus not a ref flag per se, but they should have offered the lady to sit at the galley so she would be intruded from only one side.


I've encountered it once sitting in a middle seat. The couple proceeded to talk across me for 4 hours. Good times lol.

:shock: That's weird. Me and everyone I know does this with the intention of offering the middle person the option to sit on the side of their choice.


It's a smart idea when booking. I suspect people are less likely to choose a middle seat, (especially when booking in advance), so that move ensures the windows and aisles will be filled before they get around to filling the gaps.
What the...?
 
peterinlisbon
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Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:40 pm

They are going to have to start weighing / measuring passengers and anyone over a certain size is going to have to pay for two seats.
 
SurlyBonds
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Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:49 pm

strfyr51 wrote:
Just find it interesting that she was a white woman sitting between 2 Black people and wanted to move.


Big surprise there.
 
Turnhouse1
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Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:49 pm

Jetty wrote:
ual777 wrote:
The other two passengers are clearly pouring into the middle seat. Whats interesting is that they are flying together but didn't book seats next to each other. Thats red flag #1.

I do that all the time when travelling with a partner, and I'm not even close to a POS. It increases the chances of having an empty middle seat which is nice regardless of your size. If the middle seat does get booked that person is always happy to move to one of either sides so you still get to sit together. Thus not a ref flag per se, but they should have offered the lady to sit at the galley so she would be intruded from only one side.


I do the same if travelling in a pair and as you say if someone shows up you offer them the aisle or window, and if alone will pick a seat where the aisle/window is booked by someone else rather than a totally empty row and hope the middle stays free.

From the video, the passenger in the middle seat was impolite, but probably less specifically abusive than the woman who was filming, though she may have said more before the filming started. Airlines do need to have some policy on 'people who simply cannot fit into one seat' and make it clear at the time of booking that they either need to book 2 seats or may be denied boarding as it's not pleasant if the next person is intruding on the space you've paid for.
 
ual777
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Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:50 pm

Jetty wrote:
ual777 wrote:
Jetty wrote:
I do that all the time when travelling with a partner, and I'm not even close to a POS. It increases the chances of having an empty middle seat which is nice regardless of your size. If the middle seat does get booked that person is always happy to move to one of either sides so you still get to sit together. Thus not a ref flag per se, but they should have offered the lady to sit at the galley so she would be intruded from only one side.


I've encountered it once sitting in a middle seat. The couple proceeded to talk across me for 4 hours. Good times lol.

:shock: That's weird. Me and everyone I know does this with the intention of offering the middle person the option to sit on the side of their choice.


Haha it was, they were nice enough though.
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ScottB
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Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:53 pm

gatibosgru wrote:
No one should verbally abuse anyone. Glad she was removed.


...and the woman who was filming her called her a b----. Does that mean she ought to have been removed as well?
 
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Pudelhund
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Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:55 pm

I would be super loyal to an airline that had a fatbody fee. We have fees for everything now. Are you over 300lbs with a basic economy ticket? $50 surcharge. Have an electronic scale at every gate and weigh the suspects. This way they can be publicly humiliated too and hopefully never fly again.
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Tue Jan 29, 2019 11:14 pm

Jetty wrote:
ual777 wrote:
The other two passengers are clearly pouring into the middle seat. Whats interesting is that they are flying together but didn't book seats next to each other. Thats red flag #1.

I do that all the time when travelling with a partner, and I'm not even close to a POS. It increases the chances of having an empty middle seat which is nice regardless of your size. If the middle seat does get booked that person is always happy to move to one of either sides so you still get to sit together. Thus not a ref flag per se, but they should have offered the lady to sit at the galley so she would be intruded from only one side.


No offense but people like you make flying more complicated than it needs to be. Just book two seats together and be done with it. Why try to game the system then expect someone to move if they sit there?
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
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compensateme
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Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Tue Jan 29, 2019 11:15 pm

ual777 wrote:
strfyr51 wrote:
I saw this item this morning. The woman was as big as the people she was sitting between. Just find it interesting that she was a white woman sitting between 2 Black people and wanted to move. I once had a white woman in first class who didn't want me to sit beside her. Come to find out? She was also an airline employee and she was junior to me. So? They kicked her out of First class and upgraded somebody Else. The Problem was? I had the window seat and didn't want to trade.


I'll disagree. The other two passengers are clearly pouring into the middle seat. Whats interesting is that they are flying together but didn't book seats next to each other. Thats red flag #1.

The lady asking for a different seat is an absolute jerk though. I wouldn't want to sit there either, but it doesn't justify calling someone a pig.


They were not “pouring into the middle set.” They’re large people, and were packed into their seat tightly. Given that the woman complaining isn’t small either (she must pour the dressing on those salads!), it wouldn’t have been extremely comfortable - but they clearly wern’t infringing on her space.

75% of Americans are overweight, 40% are obese. Most of the time somebody complains about sitting next to a large person, the large person isn’t taking up their space but rather tightly fills theirs. Ultimately, you’re getting what you paid for.

And it’s very common for people to book the aisle and window... I see it all the time. It’s generally rude af since they converse over the person in the middle, but people don’t seem to care.
Last edited by compensateme on Tue Jan 29, 2019 11:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PlanesNTrains
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Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Tue Jan 29, 2019 11:16 pm

SurlyBonds wrote:
strfyr51 wrote:
Just find it interesting that she was a white woman sitting between 2 Black people and wanted to move.


Big surprise there.


She never made race an issue so no reason we need to.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
Pi7472000
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Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Tue Jan 29, 2019 11:30 pm

The lady who was removed looked obese herself! The other two passengers have paid for the right not to be verbally accosted. If the lady had an issue she should have gone privately to a FA and explained her concern. Maybe we need a passenger bill of rights when it comes to airline seat size. UA used to have spacious cloth seats in coach. Now their new seats are tiny and uncomfortable leading to these situations.
 
Pi7472000
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Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Tue Jan 29, 2019 11:34 pm

Pudelhund wrote:
I would be super loyal to an airline that had a fatbody fee. We have fees for everything now. Are you over 300lbs with a basic economy ticket? $50 surcharge. Have an electronic scale at every gate and weigh the suspects. This way they can be publicly humiliated too and hopefully never fly again.


Would you charge people with chronic health issues like MS or peripheral neuropathy that lead to weight gain due to the medicine they mightt be on? Maybe airlines should put customers first and treat humans with dignity.
 
ChrisKen
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Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Tue Jan 29, 2019 11:34 pm

Middle seat didn't really do much wrong, other than the state factual situation. She certainly hadn't "verbally abused her" in the video shown at any point before window claimed it (makes a change from the race card I suppose). It was only after she got up and they all (other pax) weighed in on her she felt she had to respond. Window was also the one to start throwing foul language about, as well as confirming she was the problem.
While I probably would have used a bit more tact & discretion and not chatted on the phone about it, I certainly would have asked to be re-seated if I'd been crammed between those two too.

The aisle and window seats would have been moved over here (UK) anyway, as you can't use a seat belt extension in an exit row.
 
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Revelation
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Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Tue Jan 29, 2019 11:44 pm

IADCA wrote:
Same here. I have sympathy for this passenger's predicament, but not her behavior.

Yet if she didn't make a ruckus, we wouldn't be talking about her and/or the topic.

TheOldDude wrote:
With seat space getting smaller and people getting larger it's no surprise that the intrusion problem is getting more prevalent. How the airlines address the issue will be interesting. If they inconvenience or target people of size in a solution they risk reputational damage from an increasing part of the population. If they do nothing, they will have to deplane more people who voice displeasure with intrusion and risk reputational damage from that as well as creating a perception that they consciously do not deliver what they sell -- a complete seat. Neither works in their favor.

RIght -- the only thing that works in the airline's favor is that they make the seats and lavs as tiny as possible to make as much money as possible, and count on people to not complain when others drip over into their space.
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bigjku
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Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Tue Jan 29, 2019 11:46 pm

Pi7472000 wrote:
Pudelhund wrote:
I would be super loyal to an airline that had a fatbody fee. We have fees for everything now. Are you over 300lbs with a basic economy ticket? $50 surcharge. Have an electronic scale at every gate and weigh the suspects. This way they can be publicly humiliated too and hopefully never fly again.


Would you charge people with chronic health issues like MS or peripheral neuropathy that lead to weight gain due to the medicine they mightt be on? Maybe airlines should put customers first and treat humans with dignity.


Yes. While it may not be your fault per say it’s also not anyone else’s problem. They shouldn’t have to pay more to subsidize your flight or give up seat space.
 
IPFreely
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Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Tue Jan 29, 2019 11:47 pm

I’d like to see the “salads” this lady claims she eats. I’m guessing they’re breaded and deep fried.
 
johns624
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Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Tue Jan 29, 2019 11:49 pm

I never saw in the story that the aisle and window were traveling together. They didn't communicate in the video that I saw.
 
IPFreely
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Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Tue Jan 29, 2019 11:53 pm

Pudelhund wrote:
I would be super loyal to an airline that had a fatbody fee. We have fees for everything now. Are you over 300lbs with a basic economy ticket? $50 surcharge. Have an electronic scale at every gate and weigh the suspects. This way they can be publicly humiliated too and hopefully never fly again.


I would support this 100%. Freight shipping costs are based on weight. Airline luggage has extra fees above a certain weight. And there is a direct correlation between airline fuel cost and passenger weight. I would welcome an airline that had a fare structure of $x + $y per pound, based on total weight transported (passenger + luggage).

An added benefit is that people will know every extra pound of crap they take with them is going to cost them money. So the amount of crap people drag onboard will be reduced.
Last edited by IPFreely on Tue Jan 29, 2019 11:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Tue Jan 29, 2019 11:57 pm

This is only going to happen more and more im sorry to say. Looks like the new united slim seats strike again. We will see more air rage and space issues
 
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DLHAM
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Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Tue Jan 29, 2019 11:57 pm

strfyr51 wrote:
I saw this item this morning. The woman was as big as the people she was sitting between. Just find it interesting that she was a white woman sitting between 2 Black people and wanted to move. I once had a white woman in first class who didn't want me to sit beside her. Come to find out? She was also an airline employee and she was junior to me. So? They kicked her out of First class and upgraded somebody Else. The Problem was? I had the window seat and didn't want to trade.


They should have fired her for this behaviour if she was traveling as a nonrev.
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TheOldDude
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Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Wed Jan 30, 2019 12:23 am

Revelation wrote:
RIght -- the only thing that works in the airline's favor is that they make the seats and lavs as tiny as possible to make as much money as possible, and count on people to not complain when others drip over into their space.


Doing nothing about the vanishing space issue does the airlines to manage the discussion into the arena of smaller seats for smaller prices, which most passengers want. The unfortunate side effects are displeased passengers -- which the airlines may satisfy with a small dollar voucher -- and irate passengers, who the airline can tag as disruptive and deplane.

Meanwhile, as passengers continue to get larger, seat and other space continues to get smaller.
 
77H
Posts: 1460
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2016 11:27 pm

Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Wed Jan 30, 2019 12:31 am

JoeCanuck wrote:
strfyr51 wrote:
I saw this item this morning. The woman was as big as the people she was sitting between. Just find it interesting that she was a white woman sitting between 2 Black people and wanted to move. I once had a white woman in first class who didn't want me to sit beside her. Come to find out? She was also an airline employee and she was junior to me. So? They kicked her out of First class and upgraded somebody Else. The Problem was? I had the window seat and didn't want to trade.


From the article, it doesn't seem like this lady has any problem speaking her mind, so if she had a problem with the race of the other passengers, I have no doubts we would have heard about it.

Until we hear otherwise, I'm going to assume this was a problem of size, not race.

gatibosgru wrote:
No one should verbally abuse anyone. Glad she was removed.


I totally agree that she could have been more, (or even a little), diplomatic...but if her space was being usurped by her fellow passengers, she absolutely had a valid complaint.

The thing is...I don't blame the passengers...I blame the airlines. They know the size of their seats and yet they set no standards regarding the size of people who can comfortably fit in them. When tickets are purchased, seat size should be clearly stated so passengers are aware of how much space they are allotted.

It's not just a social issue...it's also a safety issue. Airline flying itself is not a right. Not everybody can fit in every airline seat, the same way that not everyone can fit in every car or pair of pants.

What is, (or should be), a right, is being able to use all of the space you pay for.


Sorry Joe but I have to disagree. I just had this conversation with a friend last week. When it comes to obese passengers, airlines are in a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.

1) If airlines started to ask passengers their weight and dimensions prior to purchase there would be a public uproar. Beyond that, people lie. I used to do weight and balance for a helicopter tour company and it was mandatory for us to ask the weight of passengers during the booking process. People would lie all the time only to find a scale at the front counter during check in for their tour.

1.5) Years ago, many airlines started enforcing policies that mandated that obese customers would need to buy two seats upon check in at the airport but this is harder to enforce now that a passenger can go from curbside to the gate without talking to an employee. Moreover, broaching that subject with a customer is an extremely delicate matter and rarely has or had a good outcome which is why most airlines have abandoned the initiative.

2) We live in the age of instant information. In my opinion, ignorance is not no one else's fault but one's own these days. Since this specific incident happened on United, I checked both united.com and the United mobile app and both provide information on seat width and pitch. Took me less than 30 seconds to look up both. The website even gives definitions of seat width, pitch," etc... There are also third party resources like SeatGuru that will provide that information should the specific airline you're flying not publish that info. Buying airline tickets is generally not an inexpensive purchase for the majority of people. Why people wouldn't take the time to look up what exactly they are getting for their money is beyond me, but their burden to bare if they don't, because the information is out there. Most people wouldn't buy a smart phone, a TV or laptop without looking up what they are getting. Airline tickets can easily be as expensive as each of them.

3) I've been seated next to my fair share of larger passengers, including on a 8.5 hr flight so I get how frustrating and uncomfortable it can be. But passive aggressively calling someone on the phone to complain about passengers seated on either side of you is just tasteless. Instead of conducting yourself in a way that's sure to make a scene, perhaps, ask the aisle seat customer to please get up to allow you the chance to speak to a flight attendant or even the gate agent and explain the situation discretely and get an understanding about what can be done.

I have no problem being critical of airlines when they are in the wrong but I struggle to see how an airline can be blamed for this. Her poor decision to talk about these customers essentially to their faces is likely to create the type of tensions you don't want to escalate once in the air. Best to remove the customer who caused it and move on.

77H

3)
 
flyiguy
Posts: 981
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 2:21 pm

Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Wed Jan 30, 2019 12:34 am

Southwest allows passengers to book a second seat without paying for it at the ticket counter or gate when the agent can verify the passenger would indeed intrude on another passenger seated next to them. This this blocks the seat so all passengers can sit comfortably without someone intruding into ones paid seat.
The opinions I post are of mine and mine alone, not of the airline I work for.
 
jumpseat67
Posts: 58
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2007 3:07 pm

Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Wed Jan 30, 2019 12:37 am

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
This is only going to happen more and more im sorry to say. Looks like the new united slim seats strike again. We will see more air rage and space issues


How exactly did the new United slimline seats strike again exactly? Width on the 737-800/-900 or A320 are no different than of those on AA, DL or WN. You may find a .3 inch difference in width on a DL vs. UA Airbus, if this were exactly the type aircraft on this particular flight. So that .6 of an inch on both sides would have made a difference in this situation? In all likelihood...it was a 737 and there was no width difference at all between UA or anyone else in Y.
 
bigjku
Posts: 1906
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2007 10:51 pm

Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Wed Jan 30, 2019 12:37 am

flyiguy wrote:
Southwest allows passengers to book a second seat without paying for it at the ticket counter or gate when the agent can verify the passenger would indeed intrude on another passenger seated next to them. This this blocks the seat so all passengers can sit comfortably without someone intruding into ones paid seat.


I believe this is only if the flight has open seats.
 
Jetty
Posts: 971
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Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Wed Jan 30, 2019 12:41 am

PlanesNTrains wrote:
No offense but people like you make flying more complicated than it needs to be. Just book two seats together and be done with it. Why try to game the system then expect someone to move if they sit there?

I don't expect anyone to move, but everyone I've come across was happy to have the isle or window seat and only got to sit in a middle seat because all other seats were full. Thus your point is moot. If it would ever happen that someone actually preferred the middle seat I'd be fine with that, but the chance of that ever happening is slim (no pun intended).
 
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FA9295
Posts: 1770
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2016 7:44 pm

Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Wed Jan 30, 2019 12:53 am

bigjku wrote:
flyiguy wrote:
Southwest allows passengers to book a second seat without paying for it at the ticket counter or gate when the agent can verify the passenger would indeed intrude on another passenger seated next to them. This this blocks the seat so all passengers can sit comfortably without someone intruding into ones paid seat.


I believe this is only if the flight has open seats.

With an open seating policy like what Southwest has, how is this actually enforced?
 
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FlightLevel360
Posts: 406
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2017 2:26 pm

Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Wed Jan 30, 2019 12:54 am

She's in economy plus guys
To me, it will always be:
- Bombardier CSeries
- Airbus A321neoLR and A321neoXLR
- EMBRACER ERJ-170, ERJ-175, ERJ-190, and ERJ-195
- MITSUBUSHI MRJ

Anti narrowbody-long range-twinjet gang. Long live the A380 and 747!
 
JoeCanuck
Topic Author
Posts: 4704
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2005 3:30 am

Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Wed Jan 30, 2019 1:21 am

77H wrote:
JoeCanuck wrote:
strfyr51 wrote:
I saw this item this morning. The woman was as big as the people she was sitting between. Just find it interesting that she was a white woman sitting between 2 Black people and wanted to move. I once had a white woman in first class who didn't want me to sit beside her. Come to find out? She was also an airline employee and she was junior to me. So? They kicked her out of First class and upgraded somebody Else. The Problem was? I had the window seat and didn't want to trade.


From the article, it doesn't seem like this lady has any problem speaking her mind, so if she had a problem with the race of the other passengers, I have no doubts we would have heard about it.

Until we hear otherwise, I'm going to assume this was a problem of size, not race.

gatibosgru wrote:
No one should verbally abuse anyone. Glad she was removed.


I totally agree that she could have been more, (or even a little), diplomatic...but if her space was being usurped by her fellow passengers, she absolutely had a valid complaint.

The thing is...I don't blame the passengers...I blame the airlines. They know the size of their seats and yet they set no standards regarding the size of people who can comfortably fit in them. When tickets are purchased, seat size should be clearly stated so passengers are aware of how much space they are allotted.

It's not just a social issue...it's also a safety issue. Airline flying itself is not a right. Not everybody can fit in every airline seat, the same way that not everyone can fit in every car or pair of pants.

What is, (or should be), a right, is being able to use all of the space you pay for.


Sorry Joe but I have to disagree. I just had this conversation with a friend last week. When it comes to obese passengers, airlines are in a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.

1) If airlines started to ask passengers their weight and dimensions prior to purchase there would be a public uproar. Beyond that, people lie. I used to do weight and balance for a helicopter tour company and it was mandatory for us to ask the weight of passengers during the booking process. People would lie all the time only to find a scale at the front counter during check in for their tour.

1.5) Years ago, many airlines started enforcing policies that mandated that obese customers would need to buy two seats upon check in at the airport but this is harder to enforce now that a passenger can go from curbside to the gate without talking to an employee. Moreover, broaching that subject with a customer is an extremely delicate matter and rarely has or had a good outcome which is why most airlines have abandoned the initiative.

2) We live in the age of instant information. In my opinion, ignorance is not no one else's fault but one's own these days. Since this specific incident happened on United, I checked both united.com and the United mobile app and both provide information on seat width and pitch. Took me less than 30 seconds to look up both. The website even gives definitions of seat width, pitch," etc... There are also third party resources like SeatGuru that will provide that information should the specific airline you're flying not publish that info. Buying airline tickets is generally not an inexpensive purchase for the majority of people. Why people wouldn't take the time to look up what exactly they are getting for their money is beyond me, but their burden to bare if they don't, because the information is out there. Most people wouldn't buy a smart phone, a TV or laptop without looking up what they are getting. Airline tickets can easily be as expensive as each of them.

3) I've been seated next to my fair share of larger passengers, including on a 8.5 hr flight so I get how frustrating and uncomfortable it can be. But passive aggressively calling someone on the phone to complain about passengers seated on either side of you is just tasteless. Instead of conducting yourself in a way that's sure to make a scene, perhaps, ask the aisle seat customer to please get up to allow you the chance to speak to a flight attendant or even the gate agent and explain the situation discretely and get an understanding about what can be done.

I have no problem being critical of airlines when they are in the wrong but I struggle to see how an airline can be blamed for this. Her poor decision to talk about these customers essentially to their faces is likely to create the type of tensions you don't want to escalate once in the air. Best to remove the customer who caused it and move on.

77H

3)


The tensions were started when the middle seat was infringed upon by the two outside passengers. What the lady did, was react to it. That she could have been more diplomatic about how she reacted, isn't in doubt, but in my mind, she did have every right to object to the situation.

The outer passengers merely went along with what the airline allowed. The middle passenger was upset because space that she paid for, was being used by other passengers. In a kinder, gentler world, each person would have tried to cope with the situation as it was but this ain't that world.

She paid for a seat, which includes all of the space on the plane allotted to that seat.

The fault is entirely the airline's. They set the seat size. They allow people too large for the seats, to occupy those seats. It's the airline that embraces check in systems that doesn't allow for passenger seat suitability checks. That gives the 'too large for the seats' passengers tacit approval to encroach on seat space they didn't pay for, and someone else did. Then, they penalize the person who has been victimized by their policy.

The good thing for all of us is that every time a person complains about this very real problem and it hits the news, it's one step closer to finding solutions.
What the...?
 
AWACSooner
Posts: 2448
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:35 am

Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Wed Jan 30, 2019 1:24 am

peterinlisbon wrote:
They are going to have to start weighing / measuring passengers and anyone over a certain size is going to have to pay for two seats.

I have no issues with that...as it costs less to move my 145 lbs around than the 250 lb linebacker.
 
AWACSooner
Posts: 2448
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:35 am

Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Wed Jan 30, 2019 1:25 am

flyiguy wrote:
Southwest allows passengers to book a second seat without paying for it at the ticket counter or gate when the agent can verify the passenger would indeed intrude on another passenger seated next to them. This this blocks the seat so all passengers can sit comfortably without someone intruding into ones paid seat.

It's not free...they still charge them for the second seat...but refund it if the flight ends up being less than full.
 
JoeCanuck
Topic Author
Posts: 4704
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2005 3:30 am

Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Wed Jan 30, 2019 1:30 am

AWACSooner wrote:
flyiguy wrote:
Southwest allows passengers to book a second seat without paying for it at the ticket counter or gate when the agent can verify the passenger would indeed intrude on another passenger seated next to them. This this blocks the seat so all passengers can sit comfortably without someone intruding into ones paid seat.

It's not free...they still charge them for the second seat...but refund it if the flight ends up being less than full.


That seems like a very sensible approach to the problem.
What the...?
 
ryanov
Posts: 181
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2012 4:38 am

Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Wed Jan 30, 2019 1:50 am

Jetty wrote:
I do that all the time when travelling with a partner, and I'm not even close to a POS. It increases the chances of having an empty middle seat which is nice regardless of your size. If the middle seat does get booked that person is always happy to move to one of either sides so you still get to sit together. Thus not a ref flag per se, but they should have offered the lady to sit at the galley so she would be intruded from only one side.

Is anyone else sick of this stuff? Book the seat you intend to sit in. Particularly in premium economy, someone's going to end up in that seat and it just makes more work for everyone. I run into this more often when traveling with someone else when we've both been upgraded to middle seats, and then this gets thrown in the mix on top of it.
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9526
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Wed Jan 30, 2019 2:02 am

Jetty wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
No offense but people like you make flying more complicated than it needs to be. Just book two seats together and be done with it. Why try to game the system then expect someone to move if they sit there?

I don't expect anyone to move, but everyone I've come across was happy to have the isle or window seat and only got to sit in a middle seat because all other seats were full. Thus your point is moot. If it would ever happen that someone actually preferred the middle seat I'd be fine with that, but the chance of that ever happening is slim (no pun intended).


The point is just pick two seats together and be done with it. This is another one of those “if everybody did it” things. When you leave middle seats all over, now couples are spread around who otherwise might have found two aisle seats across from one another. Obviously you can do whatever you like but it isn’t as “win-win” as you make it out to be.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
silentbob
Posts: 1578
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2006 1:26 pm

Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Wed Jan 30, 2019 2:03 am

ual777 wrote:
Jetty wrote:
ual777 wrote:
The other two passengers are clearly pouring into the middle seat. Whats interesting is that they are flying together but didn't book seats next to each other. Thats red flag #1.

I do that all the time when travelling with a partner, and I'm not even close to a POS. It increases the chances of having an empty middle seat which is nice regardless of your size. If the middle seat does get booked that person is always happy to move to one of either sides so you still get to sit together. Thus not a ref flag per se, but they should have offered the lady to sit at the galley so she would be intruded from only one side.


I've encountered it once sitting in a middle seat. The couple proceeded to talk across me for 4 hours. Good times lol.

I've had that happen more often than having them switch with me. With load factors where they are these days, the odds of having the seat empty are pretty small. It's really amazing how much thought and effort people put into trying to always get just that little bit more for themselves.

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