77H
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Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Wed Jan 30, 2019 2:05 am

JoeCanuck wrote:
77H wrote:
JoeCanuck wrote:

From the article, it doesn't seem like this lady has any problem speaking her mind, so if she had a problem with the race of the other passengers, I have no doubts we would have heard about it.

Until we hear otherwise, I'm going to assume this was a problem of size, not race.



I totally agree that she could have been more, (or even a little), diplomatic...but if her space was being usurped by her fellow passengers, she absolutely had a valid complaint.

The thing is...I don't blame the passengers...I blame the airlines. They know the size of their seats and yet they set no standards regarding the size of people who can comfortably fit in them. When tickets are purchased, seat size should be clearly stated so passengers are aware of how much space they are allotted.

It's not just a social issue...it's also a safety issue. Airline flying itself is not a right. Not everybody can fit in every airline seat, the same way that not everyone can fit in every car or pair of pants.

What is, (or should be), a right, is being able to use all of the space you pay for.


Sorry Joe but I have to disagree. I just had this conversation with a friend last week. When it comes to obese passengers, airlines are in a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.

1) If airlines started to ask passengers their weight and dimensions prior to purchase there would be a public uproar. Beyond that, people lie. I used to do weight and balance for a helicopter tour company and it was mandatory for us to ask the weight of passengers during the booking process. People would lie all the time only to find a scale at the front counter during check in for their tour.

1.5) Years ago, many airlines started enforcing policies that mandated that obese customers would need to buy two seats upon check in at the airport but this is harder to enforce now that a passenger can go from curbside to the gate without talking to an employee. Moreover, broaching that subject with a customer is an extremely delicate matter and rarely has or had a good outcome which is why most airlines have abandoned the initiative.

2) We live in the age of instant information. In my opinion, ignorance is not no one else's fault but one's own these days. Since this specific incident happened on United, I checked both united.com and the United mobile app and both provide information on seat width and pitch. Took me less than 30 seconds to look up both. The website even gives definitions of seat width, pitch," etc... There are also third party resources like SeatGuru that will provide that information should the specific airline you're flying not publish that info. Buying airline tickets is generally not an inexpensive purchase for the majority of people. Why people wouldn't take the time to look up what exactly they are getting for their money is beyond me, but their burden to bare if they don't, because the information is out there. Most people wouldn't buy a smart phone, a TV or laptop without looking up what they are getting. Airline tickets can easily be as expensive as each of them.

3) I've been seated next to my fair share of larger passengers, including on a 8.5 hr flight so I get how frustrating and uncomfortable it can be. But passive aggressively calling someone on the phone to complain about passengers seated on either side of you is just tasteless. Instead of conducting yourself in a way that's sure to make a scene, perhaps, ask the aisle seat customer to please get up to allow you the chance to speak to a flight attendant or even the gate agent and explain the situation discretely and get an understanding about what can be done.

I have no problem being critical of airlines when they are in the wrong but I struggle to see how an airline can be blamed for this. Her poor decision to talk about these customers essentially to their faces is likely to create the type of tensions you don't want to escalate once in the air. Best to remove the customer who caused it and move on.

77H

3)


The tensions were started when the middle seat was infringed upon by the two outside passengers. What the lady did, was react to it. That she could have been more diplomatic about how she reacted, isn't in doubt, but in my mind, she did have every right to object to the situation.

The outer passengers merely went along with what the airline allowed. The middle passenger was upset because space that she paid for, was being used by other passengers. In a kinder, gentler world, each person would have tried to cope with the situation as it was but this ain't that world.

She paid for a seat, which includes all of the space on the plane allotted to that seat.

The fault is entirely the airline's. They set the seat size. They allow people too large for the seats, to occupy those seats. It's the airline that embraces check in systems that doesn't allow for passenger seat suitability checks. That gives the 'too large for the seats' passengers tacit approval to encroach on seat space they didn't pay for, and someone else did. Then, they penalize the person who has been victimized by their policy.

The good thing for all of us is that every time a person complains about this very real problem and it hits the news, it's one step closer to finding solutions.


There is really no feasible way to do passenger suitability checks on the scale of thousands of flights a day per airline especially when factoring in things like codeshare and interlines. Lets be real please. Additionally, can you even begin to imagine the blow back airlines would receive if they denied service based on weight and size of passengers, especially at the airport during check in or boarding? The lawsuits alone would be staggering and likely cripple most airlines.

Perhaps the larger passengers should have done the proper thing and bought the middle seat between them but again, there is little in the way of self accountability and decency on that end either. Why is it incumbent on the airline to mandate this? Are you in favor of car manufacturers being mandated to limit the speeds of their vehicles to the maximum speed limit in the area in which you bought it? Instead of needing Big Brother Government to mandate and regulate every facet of life, perhaps encourage people around you to take accountability for themselves and act with common sense and decency.

And again, I'm not saying that this woman didn't have a right to be upset about the situation. I would be upset and frustrated too. But she handled it very poorly. She acted in a way that was sure to create tension and altercations and was disruptive to other passengers. Again, not the type of behavior you want to break out later in flight. There were multiple ways she could have handled this that would have likely had different outcomes. She chose a way that ultimately got her moved to a later flight.

77H
 
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NYPECO
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Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Wed Jan 30, 2019 2:10 am

Lady in the middle could have gotten up and politely asked a flight attendant to change seats instead of whining about it right in front of the other two passengers.
 
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PA727
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Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Wed Jan 30, 2019 2:55 am

This is only going to continue as seats are getting smaller…. And Leon’s getting…larger. (Couldn't resist)

But on a more serious note, I'd contend it's more of a volume issue than a weight issue. Take the cargo analogy for example. As stated, it goes by weight, not volume. That's because packages don't care how they're stacked/fit together. With human freight, someone might be tall and generally large - not obese - and "spill over." Meanwhile, I'm 210 lbs and occupy my area only. Why should I pay more than someone who weighs 150 lbs. I'm sticking to my space every bit as much as they are - by volume.

It would be great if people were more considerate in general, but alas, that's why we can't have nice things. So in the end, we'll be tested like carry-on luggage - you must be this size to fit. If not, you can pay for a second seat, or we'll check you through to your final destination at no charge. :)
 
Jerseyguy
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Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Wed Jan 30, 2019 5:04 am

[twoid][/twoid]
AWACSooner wrote:
flyiguy wrote:
Southwest allows passengers to book a second seat without paying for it at the ticket counter or gate when the agent can verify the passenger would indeed intrude on another passenger seated next to them. This this blocks the seat so all passengers can sit comfortably without someone intruding into ones paid seat.

It's not free...they still charge them for the second seat...but refund it if the flight ends up being less than full.


That was the old policy the new policy is that they refund it regardless of whether the flight is totally full or not, that is very generous of them. There is another option to arrive at the airport and talk to the gate agent who will provide you with an extra seat if there is one but won't VDB or IDB if there is not. Only thing I'm not sure of because the policy is vague is whether you can elect to travel in one seat, I suspect you might have to travel standby on a later flight if you show up and can not get an additional seat. I personally think, that Southwest's original policy of refunding a second seat if the flights not full is the most reasonable solution to the problem. Though with the airlines policy if merging and offering less frequency on smaller jets it might not work as people would constantly get denied their refund.

I am a COS of size and I make my best effort to travel with the extra seat, though I'm not going to lie with my limited income I have traveled with only 1 probably 2 times in the past 4-5 years.

1. I travel on a ULCC (Frontier) where I am more likely to be able to afford the extra seat. On Spirit I might try a big front seat (but I haven't traveled on them since they went ULCC)
2. I fly Southwest where I can get one for Free, usually, I' pre purchase a seat but ever since I've had more medical expenses (expensive psoriatic arthritis med), I've had to chance it at the airport.
Webmaster of an unoffical TTN page see profile for details
 
JoeCanuck
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Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Wed Jan 30, 2019 6:03 am

77H wrote:
JoeCanuck wrote:
77H wrote:

Sorry Joe but I have to disagree. I just had this conversation with a friend last week. When it comes to obese passengers, airlines are in a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.

1) If airlines started to ask passengers their weight and dimensions prior to purchase there would be a public uproar. Beyond that, people lie. I used to do weight and balance for a helicopter tour company and it was mandatory for us to ask the weight of passengers during the booking process. People would lie all the time only to find a scale at the front counter during check in for their tour.

1.5) Years ago, many airlines started enforcing policies that mandated that obese customers would need to buy two seats upon check in at the airport but this is harder to enforce now that a passenger can go from curbside to the gate without talking to an employee. Moreover, broaching that subject with a customer is an extremely delicate matter and rarely has or had a good outcome which is why most airlines have abandoned the initiative.

2) We live in the age of instant information. In my opinion, ignorance is not no one else's fault but one's own these days. Since this specific incident happened on United, I checked both united.com and the United mobile app and both provide information on seat width and pitch. Took me less than 30 seconds to look up both. The website even gives definitions of seat width, pitch," etc... There are also third party resources like SeatGuru that will provide that information should the specific airline you're flying not publish that info. Buying airline tickets is generally not an inexpensive purchase for the majority of people. Why people wouldn't take the time to look up what exactly they are getting for their money is beyond me, but their burden to bare if they don't, because the information is out there. Most people wouldn't buy a smart phone, a TV or laptop without looking up what they are getting. Airline tickets can easily be as expensive as each of them.

3) I've been seated next to my fair share of larger passengers, including on a 8.5 hr flight so I get how frustrating and uncomfortable it can be. But passive aggressively calling someone on the phone to complain about passengers seated on either side of you is just tasteless. Instead of conducting yourself in a way that's sure to make a scene, perhaps, ask the aisle seat customer to please get up to allow you the chance to speak to a flight attendant or even the gate agent and explain the situation discretely and get an understanding about what can be done.

I have no problem being critical of airlines when they are in the wrong but I struggle to see how an airline can be blamed for this. Her poor decision to talk about these customers essentially to their faces is likely to create the type of tensions you don't want to escalate once in the air. Best to remove the customer who caused it and move on.

77H

3)


The tensions were started when the middle seat was infringed upon by the two outside passengers. What the lady did, was react to it. That she could have been more diplomatic about how she reacted, isn't in doubt, but in my mind, she did have every right to object to the situation.

The outer passengers merely went along with what the airline allowed. The middle passenger was upset because space that she paid for, was being used by other passengers. In a kinder, gentler world, each person would have tried to cope with the situation as it was but this ain't that world.

She paid for a seat, which includes all of the space on the plane allotted to that seat.

The fault is entirely the airline's. They set the seat size. They allow people too large for the seats, to occupy those seats. It's the airline that embraces check in systems that doesn't allow for passenger seat suitability checks. That gives the 'too large for the seats' passengers tacit approval to encroach on seat space they didn't pay for, and someone else did. Then, they penalize the person who has been victimized by their policy.

The good thing for all of us is that every time a person complains about this very real problem and it hits the news, it's one step closer to finding solutions.


There is really no feasible way to do passenger suitability checks on the scale of thousands of flights a day per airline especially when factoring in things like codeshare and interlines. Lets be real please. Additionally, can you even begin to imagine the blow back airlines would receive if they denied service based on weight and size of passengers, especially at the airport during check in or boarding? The lawsuits alone would be staggering and likely cripple most airlines.

Perhaps the larger passengers should have done the proper thing and bought the middle seat between them but again, there is little in the way of self accountability and decency on that end either. Why is it incumbent on the airline to mandate this? Are you in favor of car manufacturers being mandated to limit the speeds of their vehicles to the maximum speed limit in the area in which you bought it? Instead of needing Big Brother Government to mandate and regulate every facet of life, perhaps encourage people around you to take accountability for themselves and act with common sense and decency.

And again, I'm not saying that this woman didn't have a right to be upset about the situation. I would be upset and frustrated too. But she handled it very poorly. She acted in a way that was sure to create tension and altercations and was disruptive to other passengers. Again, not the type of behavior you want to break out later in flight. There were multiple ways she could have handled this that would have likely had different outcomes. She chose a way that ultimately got her moved to a later flight.

77H


She could have acted better but she didn't cause the problem. The tension was there are soon as the other passengers intruded into the space she paid for. I'm not sure what car speeds have to do with this but what is incumbent on the airlines, is to give people the space they pay for. It's up to them to figure out how to do that.

That is, literally, their business.

When a passenger buys a seat, they are entitles to every cubic inch of space they pay for...no more, no less. If they get screwed out of what they paid for, they have every right to complain.
What the...?
 
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compensateme
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Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Wed Jan 30, 2019 7:47 am

JoeCanuck wrote:
77H wrote:
JoeCanuck wrote:

The tensions were started when the middle seat was infringed upon by the two outside passengers. What the lady did, was react to it. That she could have been more diplomatic about how she reacted, isn't in doubt, but in my mind, she did have every right to object to the situation.

The outer passengers merely went along with what the airline allowed. The middle passenger was upset because space that she paid for, was being used by other passengers. In a kinder, gentler world, each person would have tried to cope with the situation as it was but this ain't that world.

She paid for a seat, which includes all of the space on the plane allotted to that seat.

The fault is entirely the airline's. They set the seat size. They allow people too large for the seats, to occupy those seats. It's the airline that embraces check in systems that doesn't allow for passenger seat suitability checks. That gives the 'too large for the seats' passengers tacit approval to encroach on seat space they didn't pay for, and someone else did. Then, they penalize the person who has been victimized by their policy.

The good thing for all of us is that every time a person complains about this very real problem and it hits the news, it's one step closer to finding solutions.


There is really no feasible way to do passenger suitability checks on the scale of thousands of flights a day per airline especially when factoring in things like codeshare and interlines. Lets be real please. Additionally, can you even begin to imagine the blow back airlines would receive if they denied service based on weight and size of passengers, especially at the airport during check in or boarding? The lawsuits alone would be staggering and likely cripple most airlines.

Perhaps the larger passengers should have done the proper thing and bought the middle seat between them but again, there is little in the way of self accountability and decency on that end either. Why is it incumbent on the airline to mandate this? Are you in favor of car manufacturers being mandated to limit the speeds of their vehicles to the maximum speed limit in the area in which you bought it? Instead of needing Big Brother Government to mandate and regulate every facet of life, perhaps encourage people around you to take accountability for themselves and act with common sense and decency.

And again, I'm not saying that this woman didn't have a right to be upset about the situation. I would be upset and frustrated too. But she handled it very poorly. She acted in a way that was sure to create tension and altercations and was disruptive to other passengers. Again, not the type of behavior you want to break out later in flight. There were multiple ways she could have handled this that would have likely had different outcomes. She chose a way that ultimately got her moved to a later flight.

77H


She could have acted better but she didn't cause the problem. The tension was there are soon as the other passengers intruded into the space she paid for. I'm not sure what car speeds have to do with this but what is incumbent on the airlines, is to give people the space they pay for. It's up to them to figure out how to do that.

That is, literally, their business.

When a passenger buys a seat, they are entitles to every cubic inch of space they pay for...no more, no less. If they get screwed out of what they paid for, they have every right to complain.


You’re wrong; I’ve watched the video several times, neither passenger was spilling into her seat. They are large people who filled their entire space, and given she is overweight herself, it would’ve made for an uncomfortable ride... but she’s still getting the space she paid for.

I don’t blame her for being upset, and I think the two passengers were incredibly rude for putting their comfort ahead of hers, but that doesn’t justify her behavior.
We don’t care what your next flight is.
 
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cirrusdragoon
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Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Wed Jan 30, 2019 7:54 am

Glad she was removed. She started insulting the whole plane. She was the antagonizer. Off with her.
 
UAL777UK
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Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Wed Jan 30, 2019 8:59 am

Wow....what an incredibly nice women.....not!!!

I get this can be an issue but for goodness sakes, there was a video on how not to handle the situation. The women should be ashamed!

You want space.....fly first!
 
Kiwirob
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Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Wed Jan 30, 2019 11:22 am

strfyr51 wrote:
I saw this item this morning. The woman was as big as the people she was sitting between. Just find it interesting that she was a white woman sitting between 2 Black people and wanted to move. I once had a white woman in first class who didn't want me to sit beside her. Come to find out? She was also an airline employee and she was junior to me. So? They kicked her out of First class and upgraded somebody Else. The Problem was? I had the window seat and didn't want to trade.


The women clearly wasn't even close to being as large as the people she was stuck between, the man on her left appears to be using a seatbelt extension, so that automatically puts him in the excessively lage category and should be in two seats.

I also don't see why you are bringing colour into this, it's go nothing to do with that, it's about huge people hogging space which others have paid for.
 
Kiwirob
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Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Wed Jan 30, 2019 11:30 am

peterinlisbon wrote:
They are going to have to start weighing / measuring passengers and anyone over a certain size is going to have to pay for two seats.


They should.

Mind you I'd happily be crushed beside The Beast for a few hours, I here he's a pretty decent bloke and a good conversationalist.

Image
 
luv2cattlecall
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Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Wed Jan 30, 2019 4:25 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
strfyr51 wrote:
I saw this item this morning. The woman was as big as the people she was sitting between. Just find it interesting that she was a white woman sitting between 2 Black people and wanted to move. I once had a white woman in first class who didn't want me to sit beside her. Come to find out? She was also an airline employee and she was junior to me. So? They kicked her out of First class and upgraded somebody Else. The Problem was? I had the window seat and didn't want to trade.


The women clearly wasn't even close to being as large as the people she was stuck between, the man on her left appears to be using a seatbelt extension, so that automatically puts him in the excessively lage category and should be in two seats.

I also don't see why you are bringing colour into this, it's go nothing to do with that, it's about huge people hogging space which others have paid for.


It seems like the camera pax had a bit of a temper too - makes me wonder what happened before she started filming. She makes it seem as though she deserves a pat on the back for not physically assaulting the middle seat pax.


Photos from daily mail:

Image

Image

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... ngers.html
 
golfradio
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Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Wed Jan 30, 2019 4:50 pm

Jesus Christ! who can be expected to sit between them? I feel for the woman. She should have used a tad more tact. Her only fault was calling them names.
CSeries forever. Bring back the old site.
 
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flyingclrs727
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Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Wed Jan 30, 2019 5:38 pm

PA727 wrote:
This is only going to continue as seats are getting smaller…. And Leon’s getting…larger. (Couldn't resist)

But on a more serious note, I'd contend it's more of a volume issue than a weight issue. Take the cargo analogy for example. As stated, it goes by weight, not volume. That's because packages don't care how they're stacked/fit together. With human freight, someone might be tall and generally large - not obese - and "spill over." Meanwhile, I'm 210 lbs and occupy my area only. Why should I pay more than someone who weighs 150 lbs. I'm sticking to my space every bit as much as they are - by volume.

It would be great if people were more considerate in general, but alas, that's why we can't have nice things. So in the end, we'll be tested like carry-on luggage - you must be this size to fit. If not, you can pay for a second seat, or we'll check you through to your final destination at no charge. :)


Narrow body seats haven't been getting narrower. Cabin width on a 737 is the same as the other Boeing narrow bodies going back to the 707. Frontier flies A320's which have a slightly wider cabin and can fit slightly wider seats than a 737. Sure some airlines are squeezing in an extra seat on wide bodies, but if you look at the specs, the new narrower wide body seats are the same width as 737 seats.
 
MSPNWA
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Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Wed Jan 30, 2019 5:43 pm

Everybody involved deserves a scolding for how they behaved themselves. The middle seat passenger was extremely rude and deserved to be kicked off. She had a legitimate complaint, but she handled it completely wrong. The couple is also to blame for clearly being passengers of size. Either fly first, or buy a third seat. Leaving middles open like that is rude.
 
xxcr
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Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Wed Jan 30, 2019 5:50 pm

United did the right in removing her from the flight. Even with 2 large people next to her, she was a bigger threat. She took the risk in purchasing a middle seat......just saying.

I see a lot of post here talking about how seats are getting smaller, they are not. Seat width is at an average of what 17.5-18inches. I've seen a decrease in seat pitch, and to me that seams to be more of a problem than the seat width itself. This is just what i see and from my experience of flying. Please dont Bash me lol.
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Wed Jan 30, 2019 5:56 pm

xxcr wrote:
United did the right in removing her from the flight. Even with 2 large people next to her, she was a bigger threat. She took the risk in purchasing a middle seat......just saying.

I see a lot of post here talking about how seats are getting smaller, they are not. Seat width is at an average of what 17.5-18inches. I've seen a decrease in seat pitch, and to me that seams to be more of a problem than the seat width itself. This is just what i see and from my experience of flying. Please dont Bash me lol.


My only comment would be that when you have couples splitting window/aisle like these folks did and some in this thread do, they leave middle seats. It’s more than likely that this woman had no choice when she booked.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
xxcr
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Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Wed Jan 30, 2019 5:58 pm

PlanesNTrains wrote:
xxcr wrote:
United did the right in removing her from the flight. Even with 2 large people next to her, she was a bigger threat. She took the risk in purchasing a middle seat......just saying.

I see a lot of post here talking about how seats are getting smaller, they are not. Seat width is at an average of what 17.5-18inches. I've seen a decrease in seat pitch, and to me that seams to be more of a problem than the seat width itself. This is just what i see and from my experience of flying. Please dont Bash me lol.


My only comment would be that when you have couples splitting window/aisle like these folks did and some in this thread do, they leave middle seats. It’s more than likely that this woman had no choice when she booked.


Even if she had no choice, its still at her own risk no?
 
xxcr
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Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Wed Jan 30, 2019 6:00 pm

PlanesNTrains wrote:
xxcr wrote:
United did the right in removing her from the flight. Even with 2 large people next to her, she was a bigger threat. She took the risk in purchasing a middle seat......just saying.

I see a lot of post here talking about how seats are getting smaller, they are not. Seat width is at an average of what 17.5-18inches. I've seen a decrease in seat pitch, and to me that seams to be more of a problem than the seat width itself. This is just what i see and from my experience of flying. Please dont Bash me lol.


My only comment would be that when you have couples splitting window/aisle like these folks did and some in this thread do, they leave middle seats. It’s more than likely that this woman had no choice when she booked.


Even if she had no choice, its still at her own risk no?
 
Dieuwer
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Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Wed Jan 30, 2019 6:03 pm

How about just politely pointing out that you cannot sit SAFELY in that middle seat? Then either the FA will have to re-accommodate you are deny you boarding (removal from flight). In either case, seems you are due a big $$$ payout.
 
southbound35
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Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Wed Jan 30, 2019 6:10 pm

AWACSooner wrote:
peterinlisbon wrote:
They are going to have to start weighing / measuring passengers and anyone over a certain size is going to have to pay for two seats.

I have no issues with that...as it costs less to move my 145 lbs around than the 250 lb linebacker.


Very rough math here, but 100 extra pounds on a 2 hour flight requires ~$3 in additional fuel.
 
L410Turbolet
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Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Wed Jan 30, 2019 6:16 pm

luv2cattlecall wrote:
Photos from daily mail:

Image



"Plus size" people my a$$. They are morbidly obese.
 
Ziyulu
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Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Wed Jan 30, 2019 6:32 pm

Why was the filmer not thrown off as well? She called the lady a b****.
 
Ziyulu
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Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Wed Jan 30, 2019 6:33 pm

Also, I know a lot of couples like choosing two outside seats hoping the middle seat would be free.
 
Indy
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Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Wed Jan 30, 2019 6:42 pm

peterinlisbon wrote:
They are going to have to start weighing / measuring passengers and anyone over a certain size is going to have to pay for two seats.


The airlines can have a human template next to the bag template at the gate and neither will be enforced. Do we make very tall people buy a first class ticket so their knees aren't jammed into someones back for an entire flight? The two seat requirement should apply to physically large people and not just fat people. I've sat next to people built like linebackers and they spill into your space as much as a fat person does.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
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pitbosflyer
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Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Wed Jan 30, 2019 6:52 pm

ual777 wrote:
I've encountered it once sitting in a middle seat. The couple proceeded to talk across me for 4 hours. Good times lol.


Lol I've experienced the same a few times. One time the couple was especially chatty talking across me. So halfway thru the flight I again asked them "are you sure you guys wouldn't rather sit next to each other....I can move?" They continued to say they were happy with me in the middle. :lol: Oh dear.
 
Indy
Posts: 4843
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:37 pm

Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Wed Jan 30, 2019 6:52 pm

compensateme wrote:
They were not “pouring into the middle set.” They’re large people, and were packed into their seat tightly. Given that the woman complaining isn’t small either (she must pour the dressing on those salads!), it wouldn’t have been extremely comfortable - but they clearly wern’t infringing on her space.

75% of Americans are overweight, 40% are obese. Most of the time somebody complains about sitting next to a large person, the large person isn’t taking up their space but rather tightly fills theirs. Ultimately, you’re getting what you paid for.


While the stats are likely correct, the part about them not infringing on her space is wrong. From the middle of one armrest to the middle of the the next armrest is their space. I guarantee you a passenger of size does not fit into that space.

Here is a pic of a passenger clearly into the space of the seat next to him.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-BT6VecrA9U0/V ... 2Bwide.jpg

Of course here is something on the extreme end.
https://secure.i.telegraph.co.uk/multim ... 32425c.jpg

I sat behind a couple passengers of size on a flight from DTW to IND a number of years ago. I think they were grandparents traveling with their young granddaughter. They had the window and aisle seat while the granddaughter was stuck in between them. The armrests were up and they both spilled into the little girl's space. She asked if she could have the window seat and they both barked together "No!"

Spillage is a real problem. And even if their belly doesn't spill over into your space, their shoulders and arms do.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
AMALH747430
Posts: 168
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:29 pm

Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Wed Jan 30, 2019 6:55 pm

My sympathy lies with the woman in the middle. First off, most of the time I fly solo. When my partner and I fly together and we want to sit in the same row we book a middle and a window. It's inconsiderate to ask a stranger to sit between a couple. Second, these customer of size issues are getting to be out of hand. As several posters have mentioned, narrow-body seats are the same as they were back in the 60s. The 737 has the same cross-section as the 707. Airbus narrow bodies and Embraer e-jets have even wider seats. Last Summer I was on a flight from San Antonio to Love Field on WN. I took the window seat in the exit row. Two large customers came in an occupied the aisle in the middle. The passenger in the middle was spilling out of her seat so much that her stomach and upper body actually enveloped my arm. This was an emergency exit row too. Not only did this seem like a safety violation, but it's just plain unhygienic. There was no way I could get my body away from the person sitting next to me. None of the FAs even batted an eye. I'm sure they're scared to for fear of repercussions. The FAA needs to come in with a rule. If you can't fit in the seat you need to buy two seats. PERIOD. NO ifs, ands, or buts.
 
Dieuwer
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Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Wed Jan 30, 2019 6:56 pm

To add to the safety issue, let the FAA do an evacuation drill where 100% of the plane is packed with obese people who are wedged in their seats. I bet the test will NOT be passed.
 
Kiwirob
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Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Wed Jan 30, 2019 7:10 pm

luv2cattlecall wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
strfyr51 wrote:
I saw this item this morning. The woman was as big as the people she was sitting between. Just find it interesting that she was a white woman sitting between 2 Black people and wanted to move. I once had a white woman in first class who didn't want me to sit beside her. Come to find out? She was also an airline employee and she was junior to me. So? They kicked her out of First class and upgraded somebody Else. The Problem was? I had the window seat and didn't want to trade.


The women clearly wasn't even close to being as large as the people she was stuck between, the man on her left appears to be using a seatbelt extension, so that automatically puts him in the excessively lage category and should be in two seats.

I also don't see why you are bringing colour into this, it's go nothing to do with that, it's about huge people hogging space which others have paid for.


It seems like the camera pax had a bit of a temper too - makes me wonder what happened before she started filming. She makes it seem as though she deserves a pat on the back for not physically assaulting the middle seat pax.


Photos from daily mail:

Image

Image

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... ngers.html


Hell when you see the size of these two people they absolutely need a row to themselves, even a small Asian woman would find it hard to get comfortable stuck between them. This couple really are taking the piss!!
 
77H
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Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Wed Jan 30, 2019 7:12 pm

JoeCanuck wrote:
77H wrote:
JoeCanuck wrote:

The tensions were started when the middle seat was infringed upon by the two outside passengers. What the lady did, was react to it. That she could have been more diplomatic about how she reacted, isn't in doubt, but in my mind, she did have every right to object to the situation.

The outer passengers merely went along with what the airline allowed. The middle passenger was upset because space that she paid for, was being used by other passengers. In a kinder, gentler world, each person would have tried to cope with the situation as it was but this ain't that world.

She paid for a seat, which includes all of the space on the plane allotted to that seat.

The fault is entirely the airline's. They set the seat size. They allow people too large for the seats, to occupy those seats. It's the airline that embraces check in systems that doesn't allow for passenger seat suitability checks. That gives the 'too large for the seats' passengers tacit approval to encroach on seat space they didn't pay for, and someone else did. Then, they penalize the person who has been victimized by their policy.

The good thing for all of us is that every time a person complains about this very real problem and it hits the news, it's one step closer to finding solutions.


There is really no feasible way to do passenger suitability checks on the scale of thousands of flights a day per airline especially when factoring in things like codeshare and interlines. Lets be real please. Additionally, can you even begin to imagine the blow back airlines would receive if they denied service based on weight and size of passengers, especially at the airport during check in or boarding? The lawsuits alone would be staggering and likely cripple most airlines.

Perhaps the larger passengers should have done the proper thing and bought the middle seat between them but again, there is little in the way of self accountability and decency on that end either. Why is it incumbent on the airline to mandate this? Are you in favor of car manufacturers being mandated to limit the speeds of their vehicles to the maximum speed limit in the area in which you bought it? Instead of needing Big Brother Government to mandate and regulate every facet of life, perhaps encourage people around you to take accountability for themselves and act with common sense and decency.

And again, I'm not saying that this woman didn't have a right to be upset about the situation. I would be upset and frustrated too. But she handled it very poorly. She acted in a way that was sure to create tension and altercations and was disruptive to other passengers. Again, not the type of behavior you want to break out later in flight. There were multiple ways she could have handled this that would have likely had different outcomes. She chose a way that ultimately got her moved to a later flight.

77H


She could have acted better but she didn't cause the problem. The tension was there are soon as the other passengers intruded into the space she paid for. I'm not sure what car speeds have to do with this but what is incumbent on the airlines, is to give people the space they pay for. It's up to them to figure out how to do that.

That is, literally, their business.

When a passenger buys a seat, they are entitles to every cubic inch of space they pay for...no more, no less. If they get screwed out of what they paid for, they have every right to complain.


Look Joe, my entire point is the way she handled the situation was the cause for her removal. There were other ways to handle this, to engage the airline about exactly what you say, ensuring she gets the space she paid for. She didn’t do this. Instead, she chose to call someone in her contact list and demean these passengers essentially to their face as if they weren’t there. This caused tensions to rise to an unacceptable level.

Beyond that, it appears the airline staff tried to find her a different seat as you say they should, only to have her continue her rant about the injustices she felt she faced moments before. She caused a scene and was removed. No ones fault but hers in how she chose to handle the situation.

The point I was making with car speed was a question to you about responsibility. If you get pulled over for speeding are you going to tell the judge that it only happened because the car manufacturer allowed it by offering a vehicle that goes above the speed limit. Or are you going to take responsibility for your choice to speed? You state it’s the airlines fault for allowing this situation to happen yet there is nothing they could do before everyone was seated onboard. Have you ever seen a passenger manifest? The only personal info it contains is the name and PNR. Nothing about height, weight, etc.

As a younger adult I find it disheartening so many my senior seem to struggle with personal accountability.

77H
 
Kiwirob
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Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Wed Jan 30, 2019 7:13 pm

xxcr wrote:
United did the right in removing her from the flight. Even with 2 large people next to her, she was a bigger threat. She took the risk in purchasing a middle seat......just saying.

I see a lot of post here talking about how seats are getting smaller, they are not. Seat width is at an average of what 17.5-18inches. I've seen a decrease in seat pitch, and to me that seams to be more of a problem than the seat width itself. This is just what i see and from my experience of flying. Please dont Bash me lol.


To be fair who buys a middle seat, it was likely the only one left and who would expect to be seated between two enormous people like these?
 
Kiwirob
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Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Wed Jan 30, 2019 7:26 pm

Indy wrote:
I've sat next to people built like linebackers and they spill into your space as much as a fat person does.


Like Eddie ‘The Beast’ Hall in the photo above, all 196kg of beast.
 
jeepyjeep
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Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Wed Jan 30, 2019 7:34 pm

She didn't handle this in the best way, though lately I've noticed that even non-obese passengers can be a bit difficult and still infringe upon the space of the person in the middle seat. Recently took two flights within the last two weeks - one on UA and one on F9 - and had the middle seat in both instances. I'm tall and thin. On the UA flight, in Economy Plus, a non-obese woman next to me decided to use her computer and was annoyed when I politely asked if she would mind moving her elbow for a few seconds so that I could change the channel on DirecTV (the controls are in the armrests). On the F9 flight, I was in the exit row (STRETCH seating in one of the emergency exit rows), and the non-obese passenger next to me seemed annoyed that I interrupted whatever he was listening to on his headset when I asked him to move his elbow so I could access the pull-out tray table in the armrest. I'm not a high maintenance flier, but when I'm in an aisle or window seat, I always try to be courteous toward the person sitting in the middle seat, and make sure I'm not infringing upon their space in any way. I ordered a coffee on F9 and needed a place to mix the cream and sugar.
 
JoeCanuck
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Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Wed Jan 30, 2019 7:57 pm

77H wrote:
Look Joe, my entire point is the way she handled the situation was the cause for her removal. There were other ways to handle this, to engage the airline about exactly what you say, ensuring she gets the space she paid for. She didn’t do this. Instead, she chose to call someone in her contact list and demean these passengers essentially to their face as if they weren’t there. This caused tensions to rise to an unacceptable level.

Beyond that, it appears the airline staff tried to find her a different seat as you say they should, only to have her continue her rant about the injustices she felt she faced moments before. She caused a scene and was removed. No ones fault but hers in how she chose to handle the situation.

The point I was making with car speed was a question to you about responsibility. If you get pulled over for speeding are you going to tell the judge that it only happened because the car manufacturer allowed it by offering a vehicle that goes above the speed limit. Or are you going to take responsibility for your choice to speed? You state it’s the airlines fault for allowing this situation to happen yet there is nothing they could do before everyone was seated onboard. Have you ever seen a passenger manifest? The only personal info it contains is the name and PNR. Nothing about height, weight, etc.

As a younger adult I find it disheartening so many my senior seem to struggle with personal accountability.

77H


I understand your point. She made a fuss and got booted. Full stop...except life is rarely so black and white. Let's look at what would have happened if she did the responsible thing and just kept her mouth shut. She would have had to endure an uncomfortable situation through no fault of her own. Tough luck. You pays your money...you takes your chances.

What if she politely complains to the cabin crew and their are too busy and there are no other seats? Then she's screwed again. Still stuck for the flight.

Your car analogy doesn't quite work because in that case, the situation was precipitated by the driver who got pulled over so they had little reason to complain. In this case, the woman was the victim from the start. She was reacting to a situation not of her making.

The space she paid for was being occupied by other people. Then, she complained on the phone, about her fellow passengers, not to her fellow passengers. Sure, it was passive aggressive as hell, but not physically aggressive. She wasn't lying. She was telling the person on the phone the actual situation; she was stuck between 2 people who were invading the space she paid for.

This situation was precipitated entirely by the airline. They sold her a product they couldn't deliver. If they can't deliver what they sell, they shouldn't be selling it. She rightly assumed she would have all of the space allotted to her. She didn't get it and she had every right to be upset. It's no different if you pay for a full sandwich and get a half sandwich or get screwed out of your fries on a full meal deal.

She didn't get what she paid for and that's the fault of the airline. If their systems don't allow them to supply what they offer, then they need new systems.

I agree that she could have been more diplomatic but I also agree that she had every right to be upset. While you are disheartened by her lack of personal responsibility, I am disappointed by the airline's.

A purchase is a simple contract. The customer and seller agree on a product and a price. When the seller doesn't deliver what was paid for, they have broken that contract. Why they can't produce the product they sold, is irrelevant. Basically, it's fraud.
What the...?
 
peterinlisbon
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Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Wed Jan 30, 2019 8:00 pm

Well, obviously you can't just start insulting people and starting fights because that just gives the airline an excuse to deplane you - and that solves the space problem for them as well. I'd just say I can't sit there because there's not enough space and in most cases they should be find another empty seat. In fact, this happened last time I was on a regional jet next to a really fat guy - I didn't even have to ask because when the stewardess saw me trying to squeeze in she moved me to an exit seat.
 
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compensateme
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Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Wed Jan 30, 2019 8:01 pm

Indy wrote:
compensateme wrote:
They were not “pouring into the middle set.” They’re large people, and were packed into their seat tightly. Given that the woman complaining isn’t small either (she must pour the dressing on those salads!), it wouldn’t have been extremely comfortable - but they clearly wern’t infringing on her space.

75% of Americans are overweight, 40% are obese. Most of the time somebody complains about sitting next to a large person, the large person isn’t taking up their space but rather tightly fills theirs. Ultimately, you’re getting what you paid for.


While the stats are likely correct, the part about them not infringing on her space is wrong. From the middle of one armrest to the middle of the the next armrest is their space. I guarantee you a passenger of size does not fit into that space.

Here is a pic of a passenger clearly into the space of the seat next to him.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-BT6VecrA9U0/V ... 2Bwide.jpg

Of course here is something on the extreme end.
https://secure.i.telegraph.co.uk/multim ... 32425c.jpg

I sat behind a couple passengers of size on a flight from DTW to IND a number of years ago. I think they were grandparents traveling with their young granddaughter. They had the window and aisle seat while the granddaughter was stuck in between them. The armrests were up and they both spilled into the little girl's space. She asked if she could have the window seat and they both barked together "No!"

Spillage is a real problem. And even if their belly doesn't spill over into your space, their shoulders and arms do.


Midway through your next (non-short haul) flight, take a moment to observe your fellow passengers. I can almost guarantee a good portion of them are making themselves comfortable by infringing upon the space of their fellow passengers. Again, I guarantee it.

I acknowledge the issues in the pictures you linked to, and I also acknowledge that on several occasions, I’ve sat next to persons of size, including once where I opted to take a later flight. But I also fly significantly more than 90-95% of the users within this forum, and realize how rare an event it is.

Fact is, what most people consider to be “spilling into their space” is really somebody who fills up most of their space, making the situation uncomfortable for both parties. And that appears to be the case here.

I have a large upper body and big, broad shoulders. I’m no where even close to being fat, but I’ve had several people — including a few rolly pollyies with their weight in the middle — complain, especially on the 10-abreast 777. Ultimately, we paid for cheap seats and we got what we paid for.

I’ll also point out again that the couple’s seating arrangement is meaningless; I’ve encounters dozens of people who’ve choosen to take the asile and window, including a recent flight where they passed the baby back and forth. Rude but not fat..
We don’t care what your next flight is.
 
RamblinMan
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Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Wed Jan 30, 2019 9:24 pm

My .02: The proper way to deal with this situation is to find a crew member, explain the predicament and that you find being squished from both sides unacceptable, and ask to be re-accommodated in a different seat or on another flight. No you don't demand an upgrade (though if you're nice and cross your fingers, there's a decent chance) and no you don't insist the other person be moved or bumped.

There is no need to cause a scene or make the "persons of size" uncomfortable. While I'm firmly in the camp that believes obesity is mostly a lifestyle choice, there is nothing the person can do about it in the moment, so creating an awkward and uncomfortable situation for everyone accomplishes nothing.

PlanesNTrains wrote:
Jetty wrote:
ual777 wrote:
The other two passengers are clearly pouring into the middle seat. Whats interesting is that they are flying together but didn't book seats next to each other. Thats red flag #1.

I do that all the time when travelling with a partner, and I'm not even close to a POS. It increases the chances of having an empty middle seat which is nice regardless of your size. If the middle seat does get booked that person is always happy to move to one of either sides so you still get to sit together. Thus not a ref flag per se, but they should have offered the lady to sit at the galley so she would be intruded from only one side.


No offense but people like you make flying more complicated than it needs to be. Just book two seats together and be done with it. Why try to game the system then expect someone to move if they sit there?


"Expect someone to move" LOL what middle-seat person WOULDN'T take someone up on the offer to trade with either side? It's perfectly sensible, increases the odds of you and a partner having a row of three to yourselves, and won't ever start an argument. No solo pax ever wants the middle seat. I've done this trick and had it go both ways, I've also had the aisle with a friend in the window and a stranger in between. Nobody moved and we watched tv the whole time, not sure the middle person was ever aware we knew each other. When I travel with my dad we both like aisles so we book aisles across from each other. I don't understand why traveling companions insist on adjacent seats. I'd rather we each sit where we want.
 
peterinlisbon
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Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:25 pm

southbound35 wrote:
AWACSooner wrote:
peterinlisbon wrote:
They are going to have to start weighing / measuring passengers and anyone over a certain size is going to have to pay for two seats.

I have no issues with that...as it costs less to move my 145 lbs around than the 250 lb linebacker.


Very rough math here, but 100 extra pounds on a 2 hour flight requires ~$3 in additional fuel.


It's not just the fuel but also the space. A person that takes up 1.5 seats should pay more than a person that can fit in one seat.
 
Turnhouse1
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Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:47 pm

RamblinMan wrote:
My .02: The proper way to deal with this situation is to find a crew member, explain the predicament and that you find being squished from both sides unacceptable, and ask to be re-accommodated in a different seat or on another flight. No you don't demand an upgrade (though if you're nice and cross your fingers, there's a decent chance) and no you don't insist the other person be moved or bumped.

There is no need to cause a scene or make the "persons of size" uncomfortable. While I'm firmly in the camp that believes obesity is mostly a lifestyle choice, there is nothing the person can do about it in the moment, so creating an awkward and uncomfortable situation for everyone accomplishes nothing.


While I agree with you regarding asking the Cabin Crew politely, the passenger who fits into their seat should not be disadvantaged by being offloaded onto another flight. If there is not a spare seat elsewhere on the plane, then the person who does not fit into the space they have paid for should be the one asked to disembark and wait.
 
77H
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Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:52 pm

JoeCanuck wrote:
77H wrote:
Look Joe, my entire point is the way she handled the situation was the cause for her removal. There were other ways to handle this, to engage the airline about exactly what you say, ensuring she gets the space she paid for. She didn’t do this. Instead, she chose to call someone in her contact list and demean these passengers essentially to their face as if they weren’t there. This caused tensions to rise to an unacceptable level.

Beyond that, it appears the airline staff tried to find her a different seat as you say they should, only to have her continue her rant about the injustices she felt she faced moments before. She caused a scene and was removed. No ones fault but hers in how she chose to handle the situation.

The point I was making with car speed was a question to you about responsibility. If you get pulled over for speeding are you going to tell the judge that it only happened because the car manufacturer allowed it by offering a vehicle that goes above the speed limit. Or are you going to take responsibility for your choice to speed? You state it’s the airlines fault for allowing this situation to happen yet there is nothing they could do before everyone was seated onboard. Have you ever seen a passenger manifest? The only personal info it contains is the name and PNR. Nothing about height, weight, etc.

As a younger adult I find it disheartening so many my senior seem to struggle with personal accountability.

77H


I understand your point. She made a fuss and got booted. Full stop...except life is rarely so black and white. Let's look at what would have happened if she did the responsible thing and just kept her mouth shut. She would have had to endure an uncomfortable situation through no fault of her own. Tough luck. You pays your money...you takes your chances.

What if she politely complains to the cabin crew and their are too busy and there are no other seats? Then she's screwed again. Still stuck for the flight.

Your car analogy doesn't quite work because in that case, the situation was precipitated by the driver who got pulled over so they had little reason to complain. In this case, the woman was the victim from the start. She was reacting to a situation not of her making.

The space she paid for was being occupied by other people. Then, she complained on the phone, about her fellow passengers, not to her fellow passengers. Sure, it was passive aggressive as hell, but not physically aggressive. She wasn't lying. She was telling the person on the phone the actual situation; she was stuck between 2 people who were invading the space she paid for.

This situation was precipitated entirely by the airline. They sold her a product they couldn't deliver. If they can't deliver what they sell, they shouldn't be selling it. She rightly assumed she would have all of the space allotted to her. She didn't get it and she had every right to be upset. It's no different if you pay for a full sandwich and get a half sandwich or get screwed out of your fries on a full meal deal.

She didn't get what she paid for and that's the fault of the airline. If their systems don't allow them to supply what they offer, then they need new systems.

I agree that she could have been more diplomatic but I also agree that she had every right to be upset. While you are disheartened by her lack of personal responsibility, I am disappointed by the airline's.

A purchase is a simple contract. The customer and seller agree on a product and a price. When the seller doesn't deliver what was paid for, they have broken that contract. Why they can't produce the product they sold, is irrelevant. Basically, it's fraud.


Do you realize that the Flight Attendant attempted to re-seat her? It was only after she began to engage negatively with other customers was she removed from the flight. So your hypothetical argument that had she attempted to discretely engage with airline staff she would be in the same predicament is completely invalid.

So beyond attempting to re-seat her which the FA did, what else would you personally have liked to see the airline do? Or, as an adult, maybe realize that at one point or another, we all get the short end of the stick.

77H
 
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seabosdca
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Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Wed Jan 30, 2019 11:16 pm

I've had several flights seated in the middle of a couple. Not once has one of them offered to switch with me. Instead, the "good" flights are where they obviously don't get along and ignore each other. The "bad" flights are when they are talking over me throughout the flight. On one such flight I asked them to switch and they refused. It's a crappy thing to do to the person who is in the middle, and my wife and I don't do it.
 
WayexTDI
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Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Thu Jan 31, 2019 12:41 pm

xxcr wrote:
United did the right in removing her from the flight. Even with 2 large people next to her, she was a bigger threat. She took the risk in purchasing a middle seat......just saying.

I see a lot of post here talking about how seats are getting smaller, they are not. Seat width is at an average of what 17.5-18inches. I've seen a decrease in seat pitch, and to me that seams to be more of a problem than the seat width itself. This is just what i see and from my experience of flying. Please dont Bash me lol.

You're kidding, right? When you purchase a last minute ticket (which she may as well have done) and there is nothing left bu middle seats (they are usually the last ones to be filled), how was she given the choice???

Her actions are inexcusable, as are the comments of the lady filming the scene. They were both in the wrong.
 
johns624
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Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Thu Jan 31, 2019 2:11 pm

Why do people constantly refer to bigger people as "linebackers"? If you know anything about football, you'd know that linebackers are nowhere near the largest people on the team. Offensive and defensive linemen are much larger. Most linebackers are usually in the 225-240lb range.

PS--if the armrests stay down, there's only so much "spilling" that can be done. If anyone tries to keep the armrest up, that's when the problems start.
 
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Super80Fan
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Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Thu Jan 31, 2019 2:24 pm

johns624 wrote:
Why do people constantly refer to bigger people as "linebackers"? If you know anything about football, you'd know that linebackers are nowhere near the largest people on the team. Offensive and defensive linemen are much larger. Most linebackers are usually in the 225-240lb range.

PS--if the armrests stay down, there's only so much "spilling" that can be done. If anyone tries to keep the armrest up, that's when the problems start.


Yup, first thing I do when I (hopefully) get to my row first is to put the armrests down.
RIP McDonnell Douglas
RIP US Airways
 
buzzard302
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Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Thu Jan 31, 2019 2:48 pm

They have size restrictions on roller coasters and other rides at amusement parks. I think it's time for airlines to enforce size restrictions for passengers. I thought they did, but it doesn't seem so in this case.
 
Silverstreak
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Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:44 pm

I just wanted to mention an incident that happened to me with my Mom on a flight from IAH - CDG. My Mom had never been to Europe much less Paris so it was to be a special trip. Our a/c was United 777-200 and it was packed. The window seat was occupied by a fellow Louisianan who was on his way to his rig in West Africa. He was a big, friendly young man also from south Louisiana. My Mom sat in the middle and noticed she (very petite) inched closer and closer to me. I asked her was there anything wrong and she said - “B. O. “. Her head was at his armpit getting the full brunt of the odor. I switched seats with Mom using her need for WC use as an excuse. I too found his BO formidable, but he was such a nice travelmate it didn’t matter that much in time. The only worse scent is excess cologne or deodorant. Now there is agony.
 
TMccrury
Posts: 91
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2005 10:24 am

Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:45 pm

I used to weigh 310 pounds and needed an extension to fit in the seat. I was reaching the point of either booking a F ticket or 2 Y's to help avoid this problem. It was uncomfortable for me and those around me. Two years ago, I began a weight loss journey and have lost 90 pounds. The toll on my body was horrible. My A1c was 6.4, high blood pressure, high cholesterol to name a few. Today, its 5.4, blood pressure is normal and cholesterol is normal. Currently, I'm in the process of losing another 20ish pounds. Maybe a bit more. That said, now I sit in a seat just fine, no longer need the extension and do not crowd in other peoples space. When I end up next to a person who is obese, such as the folks in the posted picture, I am saddened by what I see. There are some many health issues going on in their bodes it's scary. Diabetes, high blood pressure, high cholesterol to name a few. All that said, it does not give either party the right to cuss one another out and become belligerent toward one another. Politely ask for a different seat if one exist and move if possible. This is very sad.
 
LovePrunesAnet
Posts: 268
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2017 2:04 am

Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:10 pm

When you ship cargo like via UPS they not only weigh the package they also measure the physical dimensions. If the physical dimensions are out of proportion to the weight they charge more. They ought to do this for passengers too.

that being said, the blond woman was a piece of work. really passive aggressive talking into her phone about the people right next to her as though they wouldn't notice or hear her.

Lol at the woman filming playing the Platinum card. "As a platinum member i will not start off the new year with all this negativity.". All the while she is munching down even more food, shown chewing on camera the entire time. ROFL.

By the way, those using POS for "person of size"...might want to find a different acronym because POS is more commonly the acronym for "piece of (excrement)."
 
FlyHappy
Posts: 1045
Joined: Sat May 13, 2017 1:06 pm

Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:42 pm

johns624 wrote:
Why do people constantly refer to bigger people as "linebackers"? If you know anything about football, you'd know that linebackers are nowhere near the largest people on the team. Offensive and defensive linemen are much larger. Most linebackers are usually in the 225-240lb range.


Its meant to be self-congratulatory when used personally (ie, "I'm big and muscular, not fat") , I always question its accuracy.

johns624 wrote:
PS--if the armrests stay down, there's only so much "spilling" that can be done. If anyone tries to keep the armrest up, that's when the problems start.


I'm gonna disagree with you completely here.
The padding that many obese pax carry can completely change the body positioning within the seat. The armrest often only wedges a person in place.
I've had many instances of an obese neighbor whose buttocks/thighs "extrude" horizontally under the rest, and midsection over the top. Neither are as bad as the fact that their arms and shoulders, being forced outward by their trussed mass, are likely to be pushing into upper body the entire flight, well into the plane of my theoretical seat area.

Ironically, I am tiny, but my shoulders when at rest and comfortable, are exactly the same width as a typical seat width found on a 737 - just a fraction under 18" . I am unable to make any movements (like eating, typing on a device) that require extending my elbows, without "borrowing space" from my neighboring pax. And so if I'm seated next to other "normal sized" adults, we have to play the polite social choreography of "space borrowing" thru the flight - the longer the flight, the more difficult to do. When your neighbors are obese, they have no "space to lend", even if they are completely shoehorned into their own small space.

And in the end that's the problem - the Y seats in all aircraft were laid out in an era when seat pitch was far greater (very helpful for normal sized adults to maneuver underseat stuff, and not squirm due to better comfort), when padding was thicker/better (again, less need to shift about), when long flights were rare, when load factors and empty seats were common, and yes - when people (particularly that flew) were smaller. Still, everyone in Y needed to "borrow space", it was just a lot easier to do.

The current model is not evacuation safe, in the real world. There is simply not enough space allotted per Y pax for 3, 5, 10 and more hour flights to not result in ugly conflicts like this.

Its a problem created by everyone - airlines, manufacturers, paying public, regulators. But there's no getting the genie back in the bottle unless someone is brave to regulate it (cue the free market anger).

The gate agents and F/A's are in a very tough position. They know these oversize pax are a problem, they certainly know when they occupy window/seat that someone in the center will suffer. But they have so little time to perform duties that they cannot proactively address something that will certainly cause insult/anger/conflict (with the COS). The are reactive, only when a complaint is raised - and how to handle when the flight is completely full? Everyone says "put them on the next flight" (be it the "squished" or the "squisher") , I don't know about you - my travels and time isn't so flexible as to be casually moved around by someone else, that's not the solution always.

The policies of the carriers and the regulating bodies are not on the side of peaceful conflict resolution, and the cabin crew are unfairly caught in the middle.

Nobody's right, and everyone loses.
 
southbound35
Posts: 22
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2016 8:48 pm

Re: Woman Removed from United Flight for Squashed Middle Seat Complaining.

Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:10 pm

peterinlisbon wrote:
southbound35 wrote:
AWACSooner wrote:
I have no issues with that...as it costs less to move my 145 lbs around than the 250 lb linebacker.


Very rough math here, but 100 extra pounds on a 2 hour flight requires ~$3 in additional fuel.


It's not just the fuel but also the space. A person that takes up 1.5 seats should pay more than a person that can fit in one seat.


What are we going to do, have CSA's with a tape measure at the gate?

Let me level-set here. I'm 6'7" and briefly played OT in the NFL ... nowhere near long enough to have "just buy first class" money and haven't really lost the playing weight. Long story, short - I am cramped in trans-oceanic lie flat business class seats/suites.

However, I can barely fit into almost any coach seat with the arm rests down. Now, my femur is often 1-2 inches into the seat in front of me and there's nothing I can do about my shoulder/hip skeletal width. No one outside my 7 year old daughter wants to sit next to me in coach, but having an extra seat doesn't do anything for me except provide underseat storage in the empty seat and give me access to a seatback pocket.

I try to avoid the ERJ 135/145 at all costs and was in pain for 2-3 days after a recent 1.5 hour flight on the left side of one of those torture devices. I was offered an exit row seat by someone in the right side of the exit row, but turned it down because I didn't want to inconvenience the person in the window seat.

I say that to say this, no matter what pain/inconveince you are having, it is likely exponentially worse for the linebacker-type. Please keep this in mind.

In this case, I feel for the woman in the middle and cannot blame her for lookign for a different seat. She could have handled it better, but the couple knew what they were doing and should have offered her either the window or aisle seat, like 99% of the population would in this situation.

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