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FA9295
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Air Italy drops MXP-DEL/BOM/ORD

Thu Jan 31, 2019 6:04 am

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... -feb-2019/

Couldn't find this topic on here yet. Air Italy is ending all of it's India flights, MXP-BOM on 21 February and MXP-DEL on 31 March. Notably, MXP-BOM is ending in exactly 3 weeks from today. I wonder why they're pulling the plug on it so quickly...
Last edited by qf789 on Fri Feb 01, 2019 5:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: User request
 
LIPZ
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Re: Air Italy drops MXP-DEL/BOM

Thu Jan 31, 2019 6:46 am

Light and unsustainable loads (and yields) to India AFAIN. Both routes were launched last month.
In addition, ORD - which was supposed to begin next May - won't start. Officially delayed to 2020 but who can really assure it will actually come back next year.
They are also stopping BKK in March while for the upcoming weeks they have just cut frequencies to JFK to 5xw till the S19.
YYZ is rumoured to gain some freq next summer from 4 to 6xw, but still to be confirmed through GDS.
 
caliboy93
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Re: Air Italy drops MXP-DEL/BOM

Thu Jan 31, 2019 7:33 am

How will this affect the proposed LAX/SFO flights starting this year?
 
P1aneMad
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Re: Air Italy drops MXP-DEL/BOM

Thu Jan 31, 2019 8:08 am

They really are all over the place.
 
continental004
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Re: Air Italy drops MXP-DEL/BOM

Thu Jan 31, 2019 8:11 am

I am hoping for their success, but their route strategy is not even a strategy.
 
a350lover
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Re: Air Italy drops MXP-DEL/BOM

Thu Jan 31, 2019 8:16 am

At the end of the day all the "conspiracy" theories end up being true.

Air Italy installed many routes one after another. I suspect they were not even analyzing the performance of any. AIr Italy seems to rely on pax originating in Milan mainly. They of course have some connections through its own network in Italy, but times and destinations are limited.

Let's make the question the other way round. What routes out of the Air Italy network do you believe are sustainable from MXP?
 
Blerg
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Re: Air Italy drops MXP-DEL/BOM

Thu Jan 31, 2019 8:47 am

What will happen with the aircraft that were used on these flights to India?

Even if they were relying on connections to India, Milan's geographical location is rather limiting. They would have to rely on passengers from Spain and France. For all other markets there are far more direct options.
 
LUKAS10
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Re: Air Italy drops MXP-DEL/BOM

Thu Jan 31, 2019 8:59 am

This airline simply needs to develop its European network (to feed the long haul routes) before it starts expanding overseas.
 
avier
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Re: Air Italy drops MXP-DEL/BOM

Thu Jan 31, 2019 10:33 am

Don't they have some 30 787's on order? If they couldn't make their main long haul markets work well, then what other markets can they tap into using WB's from Milan?
 
spannacomo
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Re: Air Italy drops MXP-DEL/BOM

Thu Jan 31, 2019 11:19 am

ORD is also closed before opening
all the other north american routes are confirmed
 
FatCat
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Re: Air Italy drops MXP-DEL/BOM

Thu Jan 31, 2019 11:29 am

I said that many days ago... the new IG was announced as the next big player in italian air transport... in fact, they still rely on charter long hauls and domestic scheduled routes.
a route from MXP to India imho wasn't a bad idea... and filling up an A332 3 or 4 times a week wouldn't be a hard job, but seems it is actually.
also ORD from MXP can be a nice routing, AZ flies only from FCO IIRC...
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smi0006
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Re: Air Italy drops MXP-DEL/BOM

Thu Jan 31, 2019 11:31 am

Doesn’t QR also fly MXP? Are they not competing with QR, I did imagine QR has a lower cost base and would be better serving India then IG, even onestop. I would have thought PVG, and NRT may have been higher yielding.

In fairness they do need to grow their 737 fleet before they grow their Euro network,
 
LupineChemist
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Re: Air Italy drops MXP-DEL/BOM

Thu Jan 31, 2019 11:38 am

Honestly, credit to them. It may seem like a basket case but deploying to where they will make money as fast as possible and get cash flow running is good and being nimble and cutting things before they can accumulate losses is also a smart move. I think they will be back eventually and should work on expanding their connection network, too but I see these moves as a positive for IG management.
 
FatCat
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Re: Air Italy drops MXP-DEL/BOM

Thu Jan 31, 2019 11:51 am

smi0006 wrote:
Doesn’t QR also fly MXP? Are they not competing with QR, I did imagine QR has a lower cost base and would be better serving India then IG, even onestop. I would have thought PVG, and NRT may have been higher yielding.

In fairness they do need to grow their 737 fleet before they grow their Euro network,

Yes, in fact I looked on FR24 for a MXP-ORD flight and I found a QR one... but was a cargo :rotfl:
Agree, and maybe they have to bother repainting the planes... wonder if they still fly the former Eastern 737 still in Eastern colours :rotfl:
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FA9295
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Re: Air Italy drops MXP-DEL/BOM

Thu Jan 31, 2019 11:55 am

LupineChemist wrote:
Honestly, credit to them. It may seem like a basket case but deploying to where they will make money as fast as possible and get cash flow running is good and being nimble and cutting things before they can accumulate losses is also a smart move. I think they will be back eventually and should work on expanding their connection network, too but I see these moves as a positive for IG management.

I agree. Being so ambitious with constant new routes usually doesn't work out. Look at what happened to WOW air...
 
FatCat
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Re: Air Italy drops MXP-DEL/BOM

Thu Jan 31, 2019 11:58 am

FA9295 wrote:
LupineChemist wrote:
Honestly, credit to them. It may seem like a basket case but deploying to where they will make money as fast as possible and get cash flow running is good and being nimble and cutting things before they can accumulate losses is also a smart move. I think they will be back eventually and should work on expanding their connection network, too but I see these moves as a positive for IG management.

I agree. Being so ambitious with constant new routes usually doesn't work out. Look at what happened to WOW air...

And also to Norwegian.
But MXP is the second hub in Italy and it lacks of direct connections... I think BKK, BOM, DEL and ORD could work well... connecting to CDG, MUC, FRA or even worse LHR can be a pain in the back sometimes
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Cointrin330
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Re: Air Italy drops MXP-DEL/BOM

Thu Jan 31, 2019 12:51 pm

Air Italy simply isn't sustainable. Milan is the obvious choice to place a hub for an Italian carrier, but MXP is inconvenient, not laid out to support a hub structure, and the Italian domestic and intra-Europe air market is fractured, with many LCC's having long overtaken AZ and domestically, at least between Milan and Rome, a strong rail network doing the rest. Italy's economy is large and very relevant, but its politics are perpetually a mess (tragic but never serious). BKK is a leisure market, BOM/DEL yields are perennially depressed thanks to the ME3, and relying solely on US TATL flights, which are seasonally strong for the most part, with NYC-MXP over served, smells like a bad business plan ripe to unravel in a downturn or high fuel environment.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: Air Italy drops MXP-DEL/BOM

Thu Jan 31, 2019 1:14 pm

Not good signs. Not at all.

Their plan is long haul from MXP. 2 cut, 1 nixed before starting.
 
behramjee
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Re: Air Italy drops MXP-DEL/BOM

Thu Jan 31, 2019 1:25 pm

LIPZ wrote:
Light and unsustainable loads (and yields) to India AFAIN. Both routes were launched last month.
In addition, ORD - which was supposed to begin next May - won't start. Officially delayed to 2020 but who can really assure it will actually come back next year.
They are also stopping BKK in March while for the upcoming weeks they have just cut frequencies to JFK to 5xw till the S19.
YYZ is rumoured to gain some freq next summer from 4 to 6xw, but still to be confirmed through GDS.


Yes I can see all ORD flights now being zerod out across all GDS systems for sale.

YYZ increase not yet showing as its still 4 weekly.
 
SCQ83
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Re: Air Italy drops MXP-DEL/BOM

Thu Jan 31, 2019 1:31 pm

LUKAS10 wrote:
This airline simply needs to develop its European network (to feed the long haul routes) before it starts expanding overseas.


I agree but the Milan market is one of the most competed and with more low-cost in Europe. Ryanair and easyJet are big in MXP and Ryanair and Wizz Air in BGY, and then there are all the Euro carriers flying to MXP/LIN.

For instance take a couple of cities:

London: 12 routes
Bergamo: Ryanair (SEN, STN)
Linate: Alitalia (LCY, LHR), British (LCY, LHR, STN), easyJet (LGW)
Malpensa: British (LHR), easyJet (LTN, LGW), Ryanair (STN)

Madrid: 7 routes
Bergamo: Ryanair
Linate: Alitalia, Iberia
Malpensa: Air Europa, easyJet, Iberia, Ryanair
 
raylee67
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Re: Air Italy drops MXP-DEL/BOM

Thu Jan 31, 2019 2:04 pm

Italy seems like an aviation sink hole that even the oil money cannot sustain.
319/20/21 332/33 342/43/45 351 388 707 717 732/36/3G/38/39 74R/42/43/44/4E/48 757 762/63 772/7L/73/7W 788/89 D10 M80 135/40/45 175/90 DH1/4 CRJ/R7 L10
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hohd
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Re: Air Italy drops MXP-DEL/BOM

Thu Jan 31, 2019 2:17 pm

Are you sure that they are dropping Milan BOM. If I am reading the news artcile correctly, it appears that the route is temporarily suspended from February 21 to March 30, 2019 and then resumes service 3 times a week. Only DEL will be stopped.
 
CaliguyNYC
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Re: Air Italy drops MXP-DEL/BOM

Thu Jan 31, 2019 2:55 pm

FatCat wrote:
I said that many days ago... the new IG was announced as the next big player in italian air transport... in fact, they still rely on charter long hauls and domestic scheduled routes.
a route from MXP to India imho wasn't a bad idea... and filling up an A332 3 or 4 times a week wouldn't be a hard job, but seems it is actually.
also ORD from MXP can be a nice routing, AZ flies only from FCO IIRC...


You are right, it wasn't a bad plan. The problem is that you need multiple US connection points. Just having JFK (not even daily) and YYZ some days is/was not enough. Once they scaled back their US operations, their India plans made no sense. Also Lufthansa/UA's JV and Delta/AF/KL/VS's virtual JV with Jet are moving a ton of traffic on the India-EU-US sectors. Those two offer FF miles, brand names and reliability. No surprise pax are not willing to go with a new airline offering 2X connections to JFK (or what ever). Add to that the ME3 and TK/KU (which offer rock bottom fares) and don't know how they could make it work
 
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Irehdna
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Re: Air Italy drops MXP-DEL/BOM

Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:50 pm

It seems that BOM-EU may overall just be a tough market. It is telling that AF had to drop BOM-CDG and hand it over to Joon, while AF kept BLR. I would imagine after this cancellation BOM will not have a nonstop flight to Southern Europe.
 
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Irehdna
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Re: Air Italy drops MXP-DEL/BOM

Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:53 pm

Also surprised that ORD was dropped instead of SFO. Would think the former would have more demand and connections opportunity.
 
9w748capt
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Re: Air Italy drops MXP-DEL/BOM

Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:32 pm

I don't really understand the MXP-India routes. QR already has a comprehensive Indian network via DOH, so what does Air Italy actually add?
 
CALMSP
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Re: Air Italy drops MXP-DEL/BOM

Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:46 pm

9w748capt wrote:
I don't really understand the MXP-India routes. QR already has a comprehensive Indian network via DOH, so what does Air Italy actually add?


nothing really, just QR and AAB wanting to take over the aviation world.
 
behramjee
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Re: Air Italy drops MXP-DEL/BOM

Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:06 pm

Officially confirmed now...detailed statement of India and ORD suspensions plus YYZ increase can be read here https://m.timesofindia.com/business/ind ... 776000.cms
Last edited by behramjee on Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
behramjee
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Re: Air Italy drops MXP-DEL/BOM

Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:07 pm

Double post by error...mods please delete thanks
 
spannacomo
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Re: Air Italy drops MXP-DEL/BOM

Thu Jan 31, 2019 6:07 pm

FatCat wrote:
I said that many days ago... the new IG was announced as the next big player in italian air transport... in fact, they still rely on charter long hauls and domestic scheduled routes.
...

charter long hauls were already dismissed and domestic routes are feeds to MXP, no more cross country flights
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Air Italy drops MXP-DEL/BOM

Thu Jan 31, 2019 8:37 pm

Also, to BKK, that is largely seasonal and Neos has that market. I have to wonder why SZX was axed when it basically serves Hong Kong, or if CAN, PVG, or PEK were ever considered. (CAN could work now that China Southern has left SkyTeam.)
 
SonaSounds
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Re: Air Italy drops MXP-DEL/BOM

Fri Feb 01, 2019 4:54 pm

Looks like they are dropping ORD as well

Air Italy closes Chicago reservations in S19
Posted 1 February 2019 07:30
Air Italy this week closed reservation for its planned Milan Malpensa – Chicago O’Hare service. Previously scheduled to begin on 14MAY19, reservation for this 3 weekly flights is no longer available.

Previously filed schedule as follows.

IG913 MXP1310 – 1625ORD 332 26
IG913 MXP1325 – 1640ORD 332 4

IG914 ORD1825 – 1035+1MXP 332 26
IG914 ORD1840 – 1050+1MXP 332 4
 
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LH748
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Re: Air Italy drops MXP-DEL/BOM/ORD

Fri Feb 01, 2019 6:50 pm

Is Air Italy becoming the next failing example of a Gulf carrier expanding?
I was a bit surprised that they would do a global expansion before building up a European network and it seems to backfire already although they might have realized that early enough. Going to be interesting how they restructure
306 310 318 319 320 321 333 343 388 ATR72 733 737 738 739 743 744 748 752 753 763 764 772 77W 788 CRJ7 CRJ9 E170 F100 MD11 RJ1H
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usflyer msp
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Re: Air Italy drops MXP-DEL/BOM/ORD

Fri Feb 01, 2019 7:01 pm

IG is discovering, as every other carrier that has attempted to hub at MXP has, that MXP does not work as a hub. As long as LIN is open, shorthaul feed will struggle.
 
santi319
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Re: Air Italy drops MXP-DEL/BOM/ORD

Fri Feb 01, 2019 7:05 pm

Perhaps for once someone should try to a point to point flying way of doing business, instead of the whole Point to Hub to Point old tiring system..

I mean there is a reason why lots of business people are switching to LCC. Time is golden
 
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DL747400
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Re: Air Italy drops MXP-DEL/BOM/ORD

Fri Feb 01, 2019 7:19 pm

My guess? QR is forcing IG to drop their nonstop MXP-DEL and BOM flights so that QR can redirect that traffic their own flights connecting via DOH.
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Polot
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Re: Air Italy drops MXP-DEL/BOM/ORD

Fri Feb 01, 2019 7:24 pm

DL747400 wrote:
My guess? QR is forcing IG to drop their nonstop MXP-DEL and BOM flights so that QR can redirect that traffic their own flights connecting via DOH.

It’s not like these are long operating legacy IG routes, these are new routes that just started (or were about to start) while IG was already under QR’s wing.
 
LH658
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Re: Air Italy drops MXP-DEL/BOM/ORD

Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:00 pm

If this was the case Air Italy would fly MXP - Doha, to funnel more people, and give QR more traffic. Though maybe QR wants to trouble the airline, so the Italian government can give them more power in the business, just a irrational theory. Air Italy should start flying to Dubai, and other destinations QR got banned from, and funnel their North America demand to those destinations like DXB, JED, BAH, CAI, and etc, allow QR to codeshare, and allow QR members earn points etc. Just a thought.
 
marcogr12
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Re: Air Italy drops MXP-DEL/BOM/ORD

Fri Feb 01, 2019 9:41 pm

They stand no chance against EK on the DXB route
Flying is breathing..no planes no life..
 
Freshside3
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Re: Air Italy drops MXP-DEL/BOM

Sat Feb 02, 2019 2:30 am

P1aneMad wrote:
They really are all over the place.

Expanded too quickly.
 
DTWLAX
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Re: Air Italy drops MXP-DEL/BOM

Sat Feb 02, 2019 3:54 am

Irehdna wrote:
It seems that BOM-EU may overall just be a tough market. It is telling that AF had to drop BOM-CDG and hand it over to Joon, while AF kept BLR. I would imagine after this cancellation BOM will not have a nonstop flight to Southern Europe.

Maybe KLM starting 4x weekly AMS-BOM in late 2017 had something to do with AF handing over CDG-BOM to Joon. Just a thought
 
AF022
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Re: Air Italy drops MXP-DEL/BOM/ORD

Sat Feb 02, 2019 12:52 pm

I can't even see how MXP-JFK is working for them considering all the flight options. Winter must be a bloodbath on this routing.
 
c933103
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Re: Air Italy drops MXP-DEL/BOM

Sat Feb 02, 2019 1:25 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
Also, to BKK, that is largely seasonal and Neos has that market. I have to wonder why SZX was axed when it basically serves Hong Kong, or if CAN, PVG, or PEK were ever considered. (CAN could work now that China Southern has left SkyTeam.)

SZX is a good alternative to Hong Kong when it come to domestic flights, but barely anyone, not even citizens of Shenzhen itself and not to mention people travelling to/from Hong Kong, would consider using SZX for long haul flights.
Say NO to Hong Kong police's cooperation with criminal organizations like triad.
 
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Irehdna
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Re: Air Italy drops MXP-DEL/BOM

Sat Feb 02, 2019 2:47 pm

DTWLAX wrote:
Irehdna wrote:
It seems that BOM-EU may overall just be a tough market. It is telling that AF had to drop BOM-CDG and hand it over to Joon, while AF kept BLR. I would imagine after this cancellation BOM will not have a nonstop flight to Southern Europe.

Maybe KLM starting 4x weekly AMS-BOM in late 2017 had something to do with AF handing over CDG-BOM to Joon. Just a thought


I guess but 9W has since started daily BLR-AMS.
 
behramjee
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Re: Air Italy drops MXP-DEL/BOM/ORD

Sat Feb 02, 2019 3:58 pm

None of the above reasons cited by everyone here I feel is true as to why IG has failed to maintain flights to BKK DEL and BOM.

The main reason according to me why these 3 cities failed is because IG launched them with no beyond MXP feed what so ever. Only domestic Italy connected conveniently both ways via MXP and unfortunately despite there being high P2P demand to both BKK + DEL, IG had to share the market with AI/TG.

BOM MXP p2p demand is one third the size of DEL hence no surprise here looking at its poor performance.

FYI IG still doesn’t operate to major EU cities in Western Europe so how can they expect their long haul services to be sustained year round?
 
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Aisak
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Re: Air Italy drops MXP-DEL/BOM/ORD

Sat Feb 02, 2019 4:01 pm

LH658 wrote:
If this was the case Air Italy would fly MXP - Doha, to funnel more people, and give QR more traffic.

They could do it but only if QR to Italy are maxed out which I’m not sure right now as I’m don’t know the details of Italy-Qatar ASA. QR flies to FCO MXP and VCE. QR should drop MXP so theoretically IG starts thinking about MXP-DOH. Again, if rights are maxed out, no QR codeshare could be possible on the route, but interline and FF should do the job.

LH658 wrote:
Air Italy should start flying to Dubai, and other destinations QR got banned from, and funnel their North America demand to those destinations like DXB, JED, BAH, CAI, and etc, allow QR to codeshare, and allow QR members earn points etc. Just a thought.


QR is pretty clear and wants to build a wall between QR and IG. This week QR CEO was asked about IG being a OW connect member. He could have given his own personal opinion as any other, but instead said “go ask IG owners”.
But let’s say IG could launch routes to those countries being an Italian carrier. QR would never be allowed to codeshare if they are banned from flying. As far as FF.... could be. But remember AAdvantage members have been banned from earning/spending miles on flights to/from Cuba. QR situation is quite different but... I don’t know if QR FF members have had any issues on BA, RJ etc flights to those countries.
 
CaliguyNYC
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Re: Air Italy drops MXP-DEL/BOM

Sat Feb 02, 2019 6:42 pm

DTWLAX wrote:
Irehdna wrote:
It seems that BOM-EU may overall just be a tough market. It is telling that AF had to drop BOM-CDG and hand it over to Joon, while AF kept BLR. I would imagine after this cancellation BOM will not have a nonstop flight to Southern Europe.

Maybe KLM starting 4x weekly AMS-BOM in late 2017 had something to do with AF handing over CDG-BOM to Joon. Just a thought


I think it has more to do with AF’s partnership with 9W. Jet started CDG-BOM with a 77W that has first, J and Y. So AF/9W had premium traffic covered. AF continues on the route to just have more seats to then funnel to North America. The lower cost Jon actually sort of made sense for that mission.
 
FatCat
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Re: Air Italy drops MXP-DEL/BOM/ORD

Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:59 am

I don't know if it was already discussed, but I've just read on JP4 (an italian aeronautics monthly magazine) that IG will wet-lease one A332 to LOT for the summer season. It's one out of five, how can they grow in the long haul with actually four airplanes?
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filipinoavgeek
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Re: Air Italy drops MXP-DEL/BOM/ORD

Mon Mar 04, 2019 8:57 pm

Kind of surprised to see that Air Italy is struggling hard when there was quite a bit of optimism for them when they first launched, and when you consider the fact that Alitalita isn't doing so well itself. At the rate things are going, I wonder if they'd still exist in its current form in two to three years.
 
WPvsMW
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Re: Air Italy drops MXP-DEL/BOM/ORD

Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:31 am

Isn't FR the barrier to IG's catchment of domestic traffic, some of which traffic can then become long haul O&D?

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