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Waterbomber2
Posts: 1343
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:44 am

Re: Air Italy drops MXP-DEL/BOM/ORD

Tue Mar 05, 2019 2:16 am

IG is a sitting duck right now.
They better give up quickly on their MXP plans and start looking at what they can do at OLB.

Extending the runway and building a lowcost (long haul) hub there is the only shot they have IMO.
The investment won't be insignificant but support and subsidies could be significant too.

There are opportunities. Long haul demand and offer are not balanced in the Mediterranean area, most options imply a stop in on of the major north European hubs.
Capturing some of the Milan high yield market looks attractive, but competing from MXP against 1-stop options from LIN is not easy.
With a low cost base in OLB, everything changes. Given that IG owns the airport, they can achieve this. Promoting OLB as a destination also benefits Qatar Holding that operates a billion dollar resort there.
 
IndianicWorld
Posts: 3388
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2001 11:32 am

Re: Air Italy drops MXP-DEL/BOM/ORD

Tue Mar 05, 2019 2:40 am

Waterbomber2 wrote:
IG is a sitting duck right now.
They better give up quickly on their MXP plans and start looking at what they can do at OLB.

Extending the runway and building a lowcost (long haul) hub there is the only shot they have IMO.
The investment won't be insignificant but support and subsidies could be significant too.

There are opportunities. Long haul demand and offer are not balanced in the Mediterranean area, most options imply a stop in on of the major north European hubs.
Capturing some of the Milan high yield market looks attractive, but competing from MXP against 1-stop options from LIN is not easy.
With a low cost base in OLB, everything changes. Given that IG owns the airport, they can achieve this. Promoting OLB as a destination also benefits Qatar Holding that operates a billion dollar resort there.


Sorry to say but that idea seems grounded from the start.

To work, Air Italy have to generate year round demand, not highly seasonal traffic which such an idea would largely be built upon.

MXP is a market that could work, but it needs a better feeder network to strengthen its position. The potential local market will fill more of the planes than OLB year round, but it still needs more to become a profitable venture.

Whether QR can get this to work is certainly going to be interesting to watch, but as EY have shown, throwing money at issues doesn’t exactly always bring results.
 
CALMSP
Posts: 3291
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 3:18 am

Re: Air Italy drops MXP-DEL/BOM/ORD

Tue Mar 05, 2019 2:49 am

filipinoavgeek wrote:
Kind of surprised to see that Air Italy is struggling hard when there was quite a bit of optimism for them when they first launched, and when you consider the fact that Alitalita isn't doing so well itself. At the rate things are going, I wonder if they'd still exist in its current form in two to three years.



i would say most of us would probably say not that surprised. The optimism was only what QR kept publicizing. i dont think Air Italy can hide it like QR does as it relates to financials.
 
juliuswong
Posts: 2021
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2016 3:22 am

Re: Air Italy drops MXP-DEL/BOM/ORD

Tue Mar 05, 2019 4:06 am

If an airline can't make BKK works, there is something very wrong with the airline...............
- Life is a journey, travel it well -
 
FatCat
Posts: 1038
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2018 2:02 pm

Re: Air Italy drops MXP-DEL/BOM/ORD

Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:33 am

juliuswong wrote:
If an airline can't make BKK works, there is something very wrong with the airline...............

...and they fly an A332, not an A388... Thai filled up the 744s out of FCO in the golden years (now they fly A346 / A359)... shouldn't be that hard
Aeroplane flies high
Turns left, looks right
 
Byrdluvs747
Posts: 2540
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 5:25 am

Re: Air Italy drops MXP-DEL/BOM/ORD

Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:01 am

filipinoavgeek wrote:
Kind of surprised to see that Air Italy is struggling hard when there was quite a bit of optimism for them when they first launched, and when you consider the fact that Alitalita isn't doing so well itself. At the rate things are going, I wonder if they'd still exist in its current form in two to three years.


Why are you surprised? When they have only nine narrowbody planes and no EU network, its not hard to understand why they can fill planes to India or Asia.

The Great Al Baker talks of a vast 787 based network for IG, but can't seem to understand that the airline has no network to feed this grand vision of his. Jet just had a number of 737MAX's grounded(repo'ed?). If they are of acceptable condition and available, QR needs to be all over them.

Also being a small airline, IG will need partners on every end of their long haul routes. They need a true beginning to end solution for each destination, otherwise we'll see more of this start and stop nonsense with routes.

I had high hopes for IG when QR announced their investment, but we can now see that having access to oil money and cheap labor doesn't equate to a wise airline CEO. QR is making the exact same mistakes as EY.
The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
 
filipinoavgeek
Posts: 463
Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2019 1:18 am

Re: Air Italy drops MXP-DEL/BOM/ORD

Tue Mar 05, 2019 12:31 pm

Byrdluvs747 wrote:
Why are you surprised? When they have only nine narrowbody planes and no EU network, its not hard to understand why they can fill planes to India or Asia.

Wasn't Cranky Flier a bit bullish on them when they were starting up? Though it seems recently he did sour on the airline, even recently making a post about the route cuts.
RIP 9V-SKA
2007 - 2019
 
FermiParadox
Posts: 83
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2017 3:05 pm

Re: Air Italy drops MXP-DEL/BOM/ORD

Tue Mar 05, 2019 3:21 pm

It's no surprise they're not doing well. They have quite possibly the worst leadership in their commercial positions. As an example, their Revenue Management VP was former AB, where he helped run the revenue situation into the ground by not understanding the market after coming over from QR. None of the former QR members understand how to compete in a mature segment, they largely "grew up" in a world where you just overserved every city and lived on your lower labor and fuel costs than established competitors.
 
Vladex
Posts: 475
Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2013 2:44 pm

Re: Air Italy drops MXP-DEL/BOM/ORD

Tue Mar 05, 2019 4:14 pm

They should have chosen the obvious A321neo if they wanted to fly to India and North America.
 
Waterbomber2
Posts: 1343
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:44 am

Re: Air Italy drops MXP-DEL/BOM/ORD

Tue Mar 05, 2019 7:42 pm

IndianicWorld wrote:
Waterbomber2 wrote:
IG is a sitting duck right now.
They better give up quickly on their MXP plans and start looking at what they can do at OLB.

Extending the runway and building a lowcost (long haul) hub there is the only shot they have IMO.
The investment won't be insignificant but support and subsidies could be significant too.

There are opportunities. Long haul demand and offer are not balanced in the Mediterranean area, most options imply a stop in on of the major north European hubs.
Capturing some of the Milan high yield market looks attractive, but competing from MXP against 1-stop options from LIN is not easy.
With a low cost base in OLB, everything changes. Given that IG owns the airport, they can achieve this. Promoting OLB as a destination also benefits Qatar Holding that operates a billion dollar resort there.


Sorry to say but that idea seems grounded from the start.

To work, Air Italy have to generate year round demand, not highly seasonal traffic which such an idea would largely be built upon.

MXP is a market that could work, but it needs a better feeder network to strengthen its position. The potential local market will fill more of the planes than OLB year round, but it still needs more to become a profitable venture.

Whether QR can get this to work is certainly going to be interesting to watch, but as EY have shown, throwing money at issues doesn’t exactly always bring results.


OLB is very seasonal indeed but I'm talking about establishing a long haul hub at an airport that they "own". This nixes the seasonality issue that you would by the way also have in MXP to a large extent, especially domestically.

OLB has an excellent position.
In fact, flying from LIN to OLB is quicker than driving to MXP.

O&D would be poor but it would be made up easily by the low cost at which they can operate from an airport that they own.
Most people who fly long haul with a stop don't care whether they transit in ZRH, HEL or DXB.
What QR built in DOH, they can also build in OLB, at a smaller scale.

This is the only way that Air Italy can hope to compete against a nationalised AZ.
It's either this or they'll probably have to shut down, casting dark clouds over Qatar's other investments in Olbia.

It sounds crazy but this is the best that they can make out of the situation, and it's a plausible option. They won't make a fortune, but it benefits their other investments and keeps them in the run for AZ's next bankruptcy.
 
runway23
Posts: 2337
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 2:12 am

Re: Air Italy drops MXP-DEL/BOM/ORD

Tue Mar 05, 2019 7:56 pm

LH658 wrote:
funnel their North America demand to those destinations like DXB, JED, BAH, CAI, and etc, allow QR to codeshare, and allow QR members earn points etc. Just a thought.


There's more chance that Michael O'Leary will feature naked on an Air Italy A330 than seeing them fly MXP-DXB. No chance in hell seeing the current state of relationship between the UAE and Qatar. Besides what (profitable) demand are they going to tap into that isn't served by EK or other existing airlines through other hubs ?

WPvsMW wrote:
Isn't FR the barrier to IG's catchment of domestic traffic, some of which traffic can then become long haul O&D?


IG could really use FR/U2 to feed their flights - both are sufficiently large in MXP to adequately feed IG and avoid a bloodbath. IG could then concentrate their 737 ops on select domestic flights and flights with no/little competition or a high percentage of transit/O&D demand.
 
WPvsMW
Posts: 2252
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:30 pm

Re: Air Italy drops MXP-DEL/BOM/ORD

Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:16 pm

Where else has FR cooperated with a competitor to the degree you imagine? Such cooperation requires banked flights where SH connects with LH. I think it is more likely that FR sees IG as a direct competitor for domestic and EU traffic.

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