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afterburner33
Posts: 173
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:46 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - February 2019

Mon Feb 25, 2019 8:16 am

I have to say I was horrified to be charged $58 for a day's parking outside the domestic terminal at AKL between Christmas and NY. It was the first time I had done so in nearly 4 years, and I seem to recall that last time I was charged about $35 - still IMO expensive, but something I was willing to bear for the convenience of parking essentially right outside the terminal and not having to take a bus. I was expecting something similar this time ... but got somewhat of a shock.

Now I know this is partly my fault for not checking prices before I left, not expecting price increases in the past 4 years, not paying attention to information on entering the carpark, etc, etc, but it was still a rather disagreeable surprise. And coming from Howick, unfortunately public transport was not a realistic option for a flight leaving at 7am.

(I was also rather surprised to find on entering the terminal that the departure boards showed my flight, which was due to leave in 75 minutes, had already departed. Luckily for me, it hadn't).
 
777ER
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - February 2019

Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:46 am

Rumours are circulating re EY joining Star Alliance next month with a UA sponsorship. What impact could this have on NZ and could we possibly see EY here?

I'm planning a JNB trip next year so this would be amazing
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SCFlyer
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - February 2019

Mon Feb 25, 2019 11:08 am

777ER wrote:
Rumours are circulating re EY joining Star Alliance next month with a UA sponsorship. What impact could this have on NZ and could we possibly see EY here?

I'm planning a JNB trip next year so this would be amazing


Problem is there is a possible veto from AI on the back of EY's shareholding in AI's rival 9W. Possibly ditto with SQ being a "rival" on the "Kangaroo Route" traffic despite both having minor stakes in VA.

I would guess the 9W and VA stakes are going to have to be sold if EY are to join Star Alliance. Alliance membership doesn't come cheap and considering EY's financial situation, the money raised from the 9W and VA stakes could help fund that.
 
Kiwirob
Posts: 12245
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - February 2019

Mon Feb 25, 2019 11:41 am

NZ6 wrote:
Gasman wrote:
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12206031

Now this is news.

So the Commerce Commission is allowed to look like it is all powerful and has real teeth; and AIA gets the Commerce Commission and the media off their back for the price of a wet bus ticket. Nice move. Everyone wins (except the airlines and the pax)


Next step, the passengers.... $50-$55 to park at AKLD for a day now.

HOW can anyone justify that? it's almost twice that of the CBD.

It can unfortunately only be supply and demand. Rewarded by AIAL and AT for not providing a rail link between the CBD and the Airport. Or at a bear minimum providing mass car storage with rapid light rail, monorail, trolly bus, busway transfers.

You can of course take the 'Sky Bus' at 65% of that at a return rate of $32 of course. That'll use the nice big motorway extension they've built for everyone to access the parking services.

Otherwise I'll also agree you can park cheaper 'off airport' while still actually being on the airport property and paying AIAL for the inconvenience of an irregular regular bus/shuttle service using the already congested public road network or you can pay a 3rd party who are often cheaper yet parking on AIAL leased land :scratchchin: Does make me wonder what margins AIAL have.

Personally, after waiting outside for 27 minutes once (timed from the phone call I made to say I was ready), I avoid those 3rd party services when I can.

Gosh I'm a :old: this morning


55 per day parking charge makes taking a taxi worth while from just about anywhere in Auckland it you're away for a 2-3 days or more.
 
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Zkpilot
Posts: 4316
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - February 2019

Mon Feb 25, 2019 12:47 pm

zkncj wrote:
aerohottie wrote:
Air NZ is dropping domestic fares.
I wonder how much of this is to ensure Virgin/Tiger don't enter the NZ market, and to apply pressure on Qantas/Jetstar

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/110843 ... tic-routes


How can they get any lower than they already are? take it the cheap fares will exlude an cookie and instant coffee?

You likely won’t see cheaper “cheap” fares between the likes of AKL/WLG/CHC. What you might however see is more sub-$100 fares on those routes where previously it might have been $200 (again not talking about the cheap book it 6 months out or on grab a seat fares).
You might also see cheaper fares on regional flights to fill in the non-peak times (gives people an option if they want to save money).
59 types. 41 countries. 24 airlines.
 
ZaphodHarkonnen
Posts: 938
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2015 10:20 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - February 2019

Mon Feb 25, 2019 11:00 pm

Zkpilot wrote:
zkncj wrote:
aerohottie wrote:
Air NZ is dropping domestic fares.
I wonder how much of this is to ensure Virgin/Tiger don't enter the NZ market, and to apply pressure on Qantas/Jetstar

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/110843 ... tic-routes


How can they get any lower than they already are? take it the cheap fares will exlude an cookie and instant coffee?

You likely won’t see cheaper “cheap” fares between the likes of AKL/WLG/CHC. What you might however see is more sub-$100 fares on those routes where previously it might have been $200 (again not talking about the cheap book it 6 months out or on grab a seat fares).
You might also see cheaper fares on regional flights to fill in the non-peak times (gives people an option if they want to save money).


Agreed, it sounds like this is more about improving yields on the quieter flights. The peak flights won't see any changes as they're already full up.
 
NZ6
Posts: 1158
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - February 2019

Tue Feb 26, 2019 6:30 am

afterburner33 wrote:
I have to say I was horrified to be charged $58 for a day's parking outside the domestic terminal at AKL between Christmas and NY. It was the first time I had done so in nearly 4 years, and I seem to recall that last time I was charged about $35 - still IMO expensive, but something I was willing to bear for the convenience of parking essentially right outside the terminal and not having to take a bus. I was expecting something similar this time ... but got somewhat of a shock.

Now I know this is partly my fault for not checking prices before I left, not expecting price increases in the past 4 years, not paying attention to information on entering the carpark, etc, etc, but it was still a rather disagreeable surprise. And coming from Howick, unfortunately public transport was not a realistic option for a flight leaving at 7am.

(I was also rather surprised to find on entering the terminal that the departure boards showed my flight, which was due to leave in 75 minutes, had already departed. Luckily for me, it hadn't).


I would suspect your thoughts reflect the opinion that of most people... $30-$35 is still dam expensive but bearable for the convenience and knowing it's an airport.

$58 though, that is robbery.

Like I said earlier in the thread, there's just too much demand because there's F' all public transport (one local route), a Sky Bus (private operator) which is $40 and a nightmare remote parking system, no corporate is going to stand terminal side and wait for those vans to do their circuits. All this equals AIAL charging almost $60 for parking 3x CBD prices.
 
NZ6
Posts: 1158
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - February 2019

Tue Feb 26, 2019 6:31 am

Kiwirob wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
Gasman wrote:
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12206031

Now this is news.

So the Commerce Commission is allowed to look like it is all powerful and has real teeth; and AIA gets the Commerce Commission and the media off their back for the price of a wet bus ticket. Nice move. Everyone wins (except the airlines and the pax)


Next step, the passengers.... $50-$55 to park at AKLD for a day now.

HOW can anyone justify that? it's almost twice that of the CBD.

It can unfortunately only be supply and demand. Rewarded by AIAL and AT for not providing a rail link between the CBD and the Airport. Or at a bear minimum providing mass car storage with rapid light rail, monorail, trolly bus, busway transfers.

You can of course take the 'Sky Bus' at 65% of that at a return rate of $32 of course. That'll use the nice big motorway extension they've built for everyone to access the parking services.

Otherwise I'll also agree you can park cheaper 'off airport' while still actually being on the airport property and paying AIAL for the inconvenience of an irregular regular bus/shuttle service using the already congested public road network or you can pay a 3rd party who are often cheaper yet parking on AIAL leased land :scratchchin: Does make me wonder what margins AIAL have.

Personally, after waiting outside for 27 minutes once (timed from the phone call I made to say I was ready), I avoid those 3rd party services when I can.

Gosh I'm a :old: this morning


55 per day parking charge makes taking a taxi worth while from just about anywhere in Auckland it you're away for a 2-3 days or more.


Not surprising, the longer you stay the cheaper it is... probably for this very reason.
 
zkncj
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Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - February 2019

Tue Feb 26, 2019 7:01 am

 
planemanofnz
Posts: 4296
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - February 2019

Tue Feb 26, 2019 7:10 am

777ER wrote:
Rumours are circulating re EY joining Star Alliance next month with a UA sponsorship. What impact could this have on NZ and could we possibly see EY here?

I'm planning a JNB trip next year so this would be amazing

Interesting development.

I read elsewhere on here that their Australian flights weren't doing too well - perhaps they might look to extend one of those to AKL, to give it a boost?

Cheers,

C.
 
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SeaEagle8
Posts: 159
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - February 2019

Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:16 am

Air Canada to launch YVR-AKL in December.

4 times weekly on 787-8s

AC051 YVR23:45 - 11:05+2AKL 788 1246
AC052 AKL14:40 - 06:40YVR 788 1346

Expect official press releases soon.
NSW based avgeek
 
NZ321
Posts: 1078
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - February 2019

Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:30 am

Wow
AC back to AKL. Been a while. But not unanticipated. Nice timings. Good to see another North American operator at AKL. Is this seasonal or year-round?
Wouldn't hold your breath on EY into Star - will sure be interesting if indeed this is what eventuates.
Plane mad!
 
axio
Posts: 258
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2006 10:44 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - February 2019

Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:03 am

zkncj wrote:

Awww.. Little ole PMR-HLZ doesn't make the chart. Although if WLG/PMR is $49 and WLG/HLZ is $39 and it's operated by the same flight number then it'll be $10 right?... :D
Time for a new viewing deck at AKL!
 
planemanofnz
Posts: 4296
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:46 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - February 2019

Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:23 am

axio wrote:
PMR-HLZ

That is the only route in the NZ domestic network not connected to one of the hubs (AKL, WLG or CHC), right?

I wonder if a) the route will last, and/or b) other non-hub routes may develop (e.g. ROT - ZQN or HLZ - DUD)?

NZ321 wrote:
AC back to AKL

I'd be interested to know whether this is the result of a new NZ - AC JV (akin to NZ's JVs with CX, SQ and UA).

It'll also be interesting to see whether its seasonal only. I think they'd find it hard to maintain it over the NS, no?

Cheers,

C.
 
planemanofnz
Posts: 4296
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:46 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - February 2019

Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:24 am

Given the NF A220 orders, what do people think the odds are of seeing NF expand to WLG and/or CHC? Or AKL - SON? They did say in the order announcement that they plan to expand their network.

Cheers,

C.
 
getluv
Posts: 515
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2015 12:11 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - February 2019

Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:51 am

zkncj wrote:


JQ is still cheaper. NZ is cutting prices simply to stimulate demand in low seasons because it has more seats to fill. The effect on JQ is going to be minimal.

I do think the timing of this announcement is interesting given their financial results are out on Thursday.
I'm that bad type.
 
xiaotung
Posts: 1000
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 7:58 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - February 2019

Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:00 pm

I thought many years ago when NZ started to codeshare with EY was to keep EY from joining the trans-Tasman market. So EY entering *A shouldn't change the status quo. You would also think EY would have talked to NZ for them not to veto.
 
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SCFlyer
Posts: 289
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - February 2019

Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:01 pm

NZ321 wrote:
Wow
AC back to AKL. Been a while. But not unanticipated. Nice timings. Good to see another North American operator at AKL. Is this seasonal or year-round?
Wouldn't hold your breath on EY into Star - will sure be interesting if indeed this is what eventuates.


Don't think AI will let EY's stake in 9W go past the keeper.

Likely veto from AI, and possibly SQ as well as they see EY as a rival on the "Kangaroo Route".
 
NZ321
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - February 2019

Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:03 pm

xiaotung wrote:
I thought many years ago when NZ started to codeshare with EY was to keep EY from joining the trans-Tasman market. So EY entering *A shouldn't change the status quo. You would also think EY would have talked to NZ for them not to veto.


Yes. I imagine NZ might not be against it; I can imagine this won't lead to EY planes at AKL any time soon but might lead to further interline; but SQ won't be happy of course. And I suspect SQ might find it hard to give this one a tick.
Plane mad!
 
xiaotung
Posts: 1000
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 7:58 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - February 2019

Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:35 pm

SCFlyer wrote:
NZ321 wrote:
Wow
AC back to AKL. Been a while. But not unanticipated. Nice timings. Good to see another North American operator at AKL. Is this seasonal or year-round?
Wouldn't hold your breath on EY into Star - will sure be interesting if indeed this is what eventuates.


Don't think AI will let EY's stake in 9W go past the keeper.

Likely veto from AI, and possibly SQ as well as they see EY as a rival on the "Kangaroo Route".


Before AI joined *A, 9W was the front runner to join the alliance. *A believed there was room for 2 Indian airlines in the group. It was only because GOI that insisted that no airlines before AI could join the alliance. So AI knew potentially there could be another airline in the alliance.
 
nascarnut
Posts: 305
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2008 3:43 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - February 2019

Tue Feb 26, 2019 7:03 pm

Expect NZ will stick with Daily flight to YVR this Christmas now instead of usual seasonal increase. Codeshare with AC and utilise aircraft else where. Possible seasonal increase to make EZE or TPE daily
 
axio
Posts: 258
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - February 2019

Tue Feb 26, 2019 8:40 pm

planemanofnz wrote:
axio wrote:
PMR-HLZ

That is the only route in the NZ domestic network not connected to one of the hubs (AKL, WLG or CHC), right?

I wonder if a) the route will last, and/or b) other non-hub routes may develop (e.g. ROT - ZQN or HLZ - DUD)?

It's been going since the Eagle Air days (earliest I have a timetable for is 2x weekdays Bandeirante flights in 1989), and I think was 3x weekday B1900 before they were removed from service. When I've seen it coming or going from PMR it seems to have a decent pax load and it still runs 2x weekdays allowing for same day return (which given it's more a business route I think is the minimum), and there are significant business relationships between the centers in the rural sector (i.e. Fonterra, CRIs). So for the moment my personal feeling, and hope, is it remains.

I'm not sure whether those conditions are really met on other non-hubs in NZ. I would have put DUD-IVC as the most similar pairing relationship-wise, but they're probably too close (2.5 hrs drive vs 5 for PMR/HLZ) and by the time you've driven to DUD from the city you're 30 minutes into the journey.

Maybe New Plymouth - Hamilton (3 hrs drive) or Gisborne - Napier (which Eagle ran 3x weekdays in my 1989 timetable).
And then there were the two routes tried by NZ until the GFC struck: PMR/NSN and HLZ/NSN. NZ probably no longer have the right aircraft for that, but NSN-PMR is probably ripe for Sounds Air whenever they want it (Air Nelson used to run 14 per-week Pipers in the 1990s).
Time for a new viewing deck at AKL!
 
aerohottie
Posts: 812
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - February 2019

Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:42 pm

SeaEagle8 wrote:
Air Canada to launch YVR-AKL in December.

4 times weekly on 787-8s

AC051 YVR23:45 - 11:05+2AKL 788 1246
AC052 AKL14:40 - 06:40YVR 788 1346

Expect official press releases soon.

Interesting block time differences with NZ.
AKL-YVR is 5 mins faster on AC
YVR-AKL is 20 mins faster on NZ
What?
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 6970
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - February 2019

Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:48 pm

NZ321 wrote:
Wow
AC back to AKL. Been a while. But not unanticipated. Nice timings. Good to see another North American operator at AKL. Is this seasonal or year-round?
Wouldn't hold your breath on EY into Star - will sure be interesting if indeed this is what eventuates.



FYI AC have never flown to AKL, they did have 763s leased to QF for a few months in full AC colours following the collapse of AN way back in 2001/02. And they sent 744s to AKL for maintenance around the same time. You may be thinking of CP who did serve AKL in the 1980/90s with DC10s and later 763s.
 
Gemuser
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Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 12:07 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - February 2019

Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:10 pm

ZK-NBT wrote:
NZ321 wrote:
Wow
AC back to AKL. Been a while. But not unanticipated. Nice timings. Good to see another North American operator at AKL. Is this seasonal or year-round?
Wouldn't hold your breath on EY into Star - will sure be interesting if indeed this is what eventuates.



FYI AC have never flown to AKL, they did have 763s leased to QF for a few months in full AC colours following the collapse of AN way back in 2001/02. And they sent 744s to AKL for maintenance around the same time. You may be thinking of CP who did serve AKL in the 1980/90s with DC10s and later 763s.

CP served AKL, via HNL & NAN [and SFO & Canton Is at various times] from the late 1940 until the code share deals where NZ/QF flew to HNL and CP flew on to Canada. That deal went away when AC took over CP.

Gemuser
 
PA515
Posts: 1542
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:17 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - February 2019

Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:26 am

Air NZ A320-271N (msn 8715) on delivery as NZ6094.

https://www.flightradar24.com/ANZ6094/1fa2acae

PA515
 
NZ6
Posts: 1158
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - February 2019

Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:44 am

PA515 wrote:
Air NZ A320-271N (msn 8715) on delivery as NZ6094.

https://www.flightradar24.com/ANZ6094/1fa2acae

PA515


You're a legend with your aircraft tracking.. do you have a register of aircraft... or what do you do with this clear passion?
 
Deepinsider
Posts: 154
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2016 10:36 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - February 2019

Wed Feb 27, 2019 9:11 am

NZ6 wrote:
PA515 wrote:
Air NZ A320-271N (msn 8715) on delivery as NZ6094.

https://www.flightradar24.com/ANZ6094/1fa2acae

PA515


You're a legend with your aircraft tracking.. do you have a register of aircraft... or what do you do with this clear passion?


Absolutely I agree. Not just a finger on the pulse, must be the whole hand!
Thanks PA515 for all your info.
Last edited by Deepinsider on Wed Feb 27, 2019 9:19 am, edited 2 times in total.
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 6970
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - February 2019

Wed Feb 27, 2019 9:14 am

Gemuser wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
NZ321 wrote:
Wow
AC back to AKL. Been a while. But not unanticipated. Nice timings. Good to see another North American operator at AKL. Is this seasonal or year-round?
Wouldn't hold your breath on EY into Star - will sure be interesting if indeed this is what eventuates.



FYI AC have never flown to AKL, they did have 763s leased to QF for a few months in full AC colours following the collapse of AN way back in 2001/02. And they sent 744s to AKL for maintenance around the same time. You may be thinking of CP who did serve AKL in the 1980/90s with DC10s and later 763s.

CP served AKL, via HNL & NAN [and SFO & Canton Is at various times] from the late 1940 until the code share deals where NZ/QF flew to HNL and CP flew on to Canada. That deal went away when AC took over CP.


Gemuser


Wow that long. I think the NZ/CP deal ended in 1997 and CP returned to AKL for a year with 763s, AC/CP merged in what 2000?

I predicted something like this happening it makes sense.
 
NZ321
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - February 2019

Wed Feb 27, 2019 2:19 pm

Yes indeed you are correct :) it was indeed CP, and I did end up flying on a CP aircraft leased to QF at one point from AKL - SYD. Loved the old CP Air livery. Very distinctive. Can't say I think the current AC livery is anything special. Still, will be good to see another 787 airline at AKL.
Plane mad!
 
NZ6
Posts: 1158
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - February 2019

Wed Feb 27, 2019 9:49 pm

So the half-year results are out.
https://www.airnewzealand.co.nz/press-r ... 11-million

Now, as expected compared to QF (This is why I asked Gasman) I believe it's disappointing.

On the positive, operating revenue was up 7.1% however, fuel, operational costs and the 787 issues have ultimately cost the bottom line.

There are a number of major announcements coming this year...we've seen the first with the Domestic Airfares changes. This result has been on the cards for a while and I think we all know Luxon isn't one to sit back and accept a softening market and competition.
 
aerohottie
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - February 2019

Wed Feb 27, 2019 10:29 pm

NZ6 wrote:
So the half-year results are out.
https://www.airnewzealand.co.nz/press-r ... 11-million

Now, as expected compared to QF (This is why I asked Gasman) I believe it's disappointing.

On the positive, operating revenue was up 7.1% however, fuel, operational costs and the 787 issues have ultimately cost the bottom line.

There are a number of major announcements coming this year...we've seen the first with the Domestic Airfares changes. This result has been on the cards for a while and I think we all know Luxon isn't one to sit back and accept a softening market and competition.

NZ's performance vs QF is an interesting comparison.
NZ is more inbound tourism focussed with a much smaller and less wealthy domestic market. NZ is more exposed to the ups and downs of the Chinese market in my opinion.
Will be interesting to see how NZ respond...
What?
 
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aerorobnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - February 2019

Wed Feb 27, 2019 10:35 pm

NZ321 wrote:
Still, will be good to see another 787 airline at AKL.


I'd have much rather had an AC 77L on the route myself. The 787 is just about my least favourite aircraft operating currently I think. On a related note, I see from LA website they will go back to 788s again soon. Probably due to their business refits, but could be more RR related stuff too.

I'm happy about AC, they are a good carrier, they have a solid product and the flight schedule seems ideal for the New Zealand market to me ( no T-T/Pac connections possible). Now the first wave of Noth American flights is 1430-1530 with AA. AC, UA followed by NZ later. I wish IAH or ORD would go to 1600-1700 for optimal options again.
Flown to 147 Airports in 62 Countries on 83 Operators and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
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Zkpilot
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - February 2019

Wed Feb 27, 2019 10:59 pm

aerohottie wrote:
SeaEagle8 wrote:
Air Canada to launch YVR-AKL in December.

4 times weekly on 787-8s

AC051 YVR23:45 - 11:05+2AKL 788 1246
AC052 AKL14:40 - 06:40YVR 788 1346

Expect official press releases soon.

Interesting block time differences with NZ.
AKL-YVR is 5 mins faster on AC
YVR-AKL is 20 mins faster on NZ

Different aircraft for starters.
Also NZ carries a lot of freight out of AKL so would likely have a slower climb to cruise altitude. AC might carry more freight out of YVR.
59 types. 41 countries. 24 airlines.
 
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Zkpilot
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Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:21 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - February 2019

Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:02 pm

aerorobnz wrote:
NZ321 wrote:
Still, will be good to see another 787 airline at AKL.


I'd have much rather had an AC 77L on the route myself. The 787 is just about my least favourite aircraft operating currently I think. On a related note, I see from LA website they will go back to 788s again soon. Probably due to their business refits, but could be more RR related stuff too.

I'm happy about AC, they are a good carrier, they have a solid product and the flight schedule seems ideal for the New Zealand market to me ( no T-T/Pac connections possible). Now the first wave of Noth American flights is 1430-1530 with AA. AC, UA followed by NZ later. I wish IAH or ORD would go to 1600-1700 for optimal options again.

Solid product? Hmmm they used to be good but for the past few years (maybe more) they’ve been worse than UA/AA/DL in my book. Have preferred to fly on WS domestically in Canada over AC despite WS being a LCC.
59 types. 41 countries. 24 airlines.
 
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aerorobnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - February 2019

Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:41 pm

Zkpilot wrote:
Solid product? Hmmm they used to be good but for the past few years (maybe more) they’ve been worse than UA/AA/DL in my book. Have preferred to fly on WS domestically in Canada over AC despite WS being a LCC.


My flights around Canada were of equal standard or higher to any of the carriers I have flown on similar sector lengths around the world 1h-5h. The relevant measure is how are they on long-haul flights, from all accounts I have heard recently, they have been pretty good )even in Y). I have one uber frequent flying friend that reckons transatlantic business class speaking, AC and DL are amongst the best going right now, and better than BA, AF, LH. He's ex Pursor C/crew so his standards are relatively high, but not unrealistic.
Flown to 147 Airports in 62 Countries on 83 Operators and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
tullamarine
Posts: 2139
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 1999 1:14 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - February 2019

Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:01 am

aerohottie wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
So the half-year results are out.
https://www.airnewzealand.co.nz/press-r ... 11-million

Now, as expected compared to QF (This is why I asked Gasman) I believe it's disappointing.

On the positive, operating revenue was up 7.1% however, fuel, operational costs and the 787 issues have ultimately cost the bottom line.

There are a number of major announcements coming this year...we've seen the first with the Domestic Airfares changes. This result has been on the cards for a while and I think we all know Luxon isn't one to sit back and accept a softening market and competition.

NZ's performance vs QF is an interesting comparison.
NZ is more inbound tourism focussed with a much smaller and less wealthy domestic market. NZ is more exposed to the ups and downs of the Chinese market in my opinion.
Will be interesting to see how NZ respond...

I think NZ will rue the day it cut-off its relationship with VA. The tie-up with QF offers nothing in attracting long-haul pax and its questionable how much it offers domestically given QF will not want to sacrifice its own JetStar operations. It can never meaningfully expand the relationship due to competition issues on both sides of the Tasman. Meanwhile, it has lost access to the millions of Velocity members who may previously considered NZ for services across the Pacific. With New Zealand having a relatively small population, NZ has built their int'l network on attracting Australians to use AKL as a transit point. Many no longer consider this option and NZ as been forced to offer ridiculously low fares to attract Australians. I think this will continue for years; the loss of Australian transits will be making it very hard to profitably fill those NZ 77Ws.
717, 721/2, 732/3/4/5/7/8/9, 742/3/4, 752/3, 762/3, 772/E/W, 788/9, 300,310, 319,320/1, 332/3, 359, 388, DC9, DC10, F28, F100, 142,143, E75/90, CR2, D82/3/4, SF3, ATR
 
zkncj
Posts: 3261
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - February 2019

Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:11 am

Wonder if there was hints of Westjet starting YVR-AKL once they get more 789s? hence AC/NZ are teaming up to protect the route?

Isn't WS new CEO an previous Executive at NZ.
 
downdata
Posts: 556
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2016 2:38 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - February 2019

Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:39 am

tullamarine wrote:
aerohottie wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
So the half-year results are out.
https://www.airnewzealand.co.nz/press-r ... 11-million

Now, as expected compared to QF (This is why I asked Gasman) I believe it's disappointing.

On the positive, operating revenue was up 7.1% however, fuel, operational costs and the 787 issues have ultimately cost the bottom line.

There are a number of major announcements coming this year...we've seen the first with the Domestic Airfares changes. This result has been on the cards for a while and I think we all know Luxon isn't one to sit back and accept a softening market and competition.

NZ's performance vs QF is an interesting comparison.
NZ is more inbound tourism focussed with a much smaller and less wealthy domestic market. NZ is more exposed to the ups and downs of the Chinese market in my opinion.
Will be interesting to see how NZ respond...

I think NZ will rue the day it cut-off its relationship with VA. The tie-up with QF offers nothing in attracting long-haul pax and its questionable how much it offers domestically given QF will not want to sacrifice its own JetStar operations. It can never meaningfully expand the relationship due to competition issues on both sides of the Tasman. Meanwhile, it has lost access to the millions of Velocity members who may previously considered NZ for services across the Pacific. With New Zealand having a relatively small population, NZ has built their int'l network on attracting Australians to use AKL as a transit point. Many no longer consider this option and NZ as been forced to offer ridiculously low fares to attract Australians. I think this will continue for years; the loss of Australian transits will be making it very hard to profitably fill those NZ 77Ws.


BITRE tells a slightly different story though. They might just be able to drive VA out of the trans tasman market.
 
NTLDaz
Posts: 360
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 7:56 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - February 2019

Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:47 am

downdata wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
aerohottie wrote:
NZ's performance vs QF is an interesting comparison.
NZ is more inbound tourism focussed with a much smaller and less wealthy domestic market. NZ is more exposed to the ups and downs of the Chinese market in my opinion.
Will be interesting to see how NZ respond...

I think NZ will rue the day it cut-off its relationship with VA. The tie-up with QF offers nothing in attracting long-haul pax and its questionable how much it offers domestically given QF will not want to sacrifice its own JetStar operations. It can never meaningfully expand the relationship due to competition issues on both sides of the Tasman. Meanwhile, it has lost access to the millions of Velocity members who may previously considered NZ for services across the Pacific. With New Zealand having a relatively small population, NZ has built their int'l network on attracting Australians to use AKL as a transit point. Many no longer consider this option and NZ as been forced to offer ridiculously low fares to attract Australians. I think this will continue for years; the loss of Australian transits will be making it very hard to profitably fill those NZ 77Ws.


BITRE tells a slightly different story though. They might just be able to drive VA out of the trans tasman market.


The next BITRE figures will tell more. I tend to agree with Tullamarine that there are downsides to NZ flicking VA and their millions of Velocity members.
 
NYKiwi
Posts: 61
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:41 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - February 2019

Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:00 am

From reading other threads all fares to Oz from US are under pressure due to over supply and thats why UA cutting back some flights also, so NZ are just trying to compete.

Think with more market fragmentation will be curious on need for the 77W. Sure Akl-lax are trunk routes but now more options to bypass. Ive even seen fares from NY to Akl on qantas below 1000.

As discussed NZ has a good low cost compared to some other airlines but as mentioned still need to fill portion from OZ so will be interesting times
 
getluv
Posts: 515
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2015 12:11 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - February 2019

Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:21 am

tullamarine wrote:
aerohottie wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
So the half-year results are out.
https://www.airnewzealand.co.nz/press-r ... 11-million

Now, as expected compared to QF (This is why I asked Gasman) I believe it's disappointing.

On the positive, operating revenue was up 7.1% however, fuel, operational costs and the 787 issues have ultimately cost the bottom line.

There are a number of major announcements coming this year...we've seen the first with the Domestic Airfares changes. This result has been on the cards for a while and I think we all know Luxon isn't one to sit back and accept a softening market and competition.

NZ's performance vs QF is an interesting comparison.
NZ is more inbound tourism focussed with a much smaller and less wealthy domestic market. NZ is more exposed to the ups and downs of the Chinese market in my opinion.
Will be interesting to see how NZ respond...

I think NZ will rue the day it cut-off its relationship with VA. The tie-up with QF offers nothing in attracting long-haul pax and its questionable how much it offers domestically given QF will not want to sacrifice its own JetStar operations. It can never meaningfully expand the relationship due to competition issues on both sides of the Tasman. Meanwhile, it has lost access to the millions of Velocity members who may previously considered NZ for services across the Pacific. With New Zealand having a relatively small population, NZ has built their int'l network on attracting Australians to use AKL as a transit point. Many no longer consider this option and NZ as been forced to offer ridiculously low fares to attract Australians. I think this will continue for years; the loss of Australian transits will be making it very hard to profitably fill those NZ 77Ws.


Velocity members were not able to earn points on NZ flights to North America well before the partnership ended. Unfortunately, P2P offerings (eg MEL-YVR and MEL-SFO) are likely hurting NZ especially when airfares are sub-A$1000
I'm that bad type.
 
User avatar
SCFlyer
Posts: 289
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2018 11:14 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - February 2019

Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:25 am

getluv wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
aerohottie wrote:
NZ's performance vs QF is an interesting comparison.
NZ is more inbound tourism focussed with a much smaller and less wealthy domestic market. NZ is more exposed to the ups and downs of the Chinese market in my opinion.
Will be interesting to see how NZ respond...

I think NZ will rue the day it cut-off its relationship with VA. The tie-up with QF offers nothing in attracting long-haul pax and its questionable how much it offers domestically given QF will not want to sacrifice its own JetStar operations. It can never meaningfully expand the relationship due to competition issues on both sides of the Tasman. Meanwhile, it has lost access to the millions of Velocity members who may previously considered NZ for services across the Pacific. With New Zealand having a relatively small population, NZ has built their int'l network on attracting Australians to use AKL as a transit point. Many no longer consider this option and NZ as been forced to offer ridiculously low fares to attract Australians. I think this will continue for years; the loss of Australian transits will be making it very hard to profitably fill those NZ 77Ws.


Velocity members were not able to earn points on NZ flights to North America well before the partnership ended.


And vice-versa for Airpoints members on VA's Long Haul (LAX and HKG) flights. The partnership started winding back (e.g both carriers winding back reciprocal rights on each other's long haul flights) when NZ/Luxon sold out of VA after the boardroom bust-up.
 
nz2
Posts: 249
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2007 8:38 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - February 2019

Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:48 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
NZ321 wrote:
Wow
AC back to AKL. Been a while. But not unanticipated. Nice timings. Good to see another North American operator at AKL. Is this seasonal or year-round?
Wouldn't hold your breath on EY into Star - will sure be interesting if indeed this is what eventuates.



FYI AC have never flown to AKL, they did have 763s leased to QF for a few months in full AC colours following the collapse of AN way back in 2001/02. And they sent 744s to AKL for maintenance around the same time. You may be thinking of CP who did serve AKL in the 1980/90s with DC10s and later 763s.


I believe CP Air flew DC-8's here in the 60's, they even advertised in the official program for the opening day of AKL Intl .....
 
DavidJ08
Posts: 160
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2007 9:18 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - February 2019

Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:50 am

tullamarine wrote:
I think NZ will rue the day it cut-off its relationship with VA. The tie-up with QF offers nothing in attracting long-haul pax and its questionable how much it offers domestically given QF will not want to sacrifice its own JetStar operations. It can never meaningfully expand the relationship due to competition issues on both sides of the Tasman. Meanwhile, it has lost access to the millions of Velocity members who may previously considered NZ for services across the Pacific. With New Zealand having a relatively small population, NZ has built their int'l network on attracting Australians to use AKL as a transit point. Many no longer consider this option and NZ as been forced to offer ridiculously low fares to attract Australians. I think this will continue for years; the loss of Australian transits will be making it very hard to profitably fill those NZ 77Ws.

It's commonly accepted that it was a boardroom bust up that saw NZ-VA relations go south, with ensuing reciprocal privilege rollbacks, divesting VA shareholding, and eventually a termination of the partnership. This may well have been a down side to it, but my guess would be that NZ execs (Luxon in particular) were willing to accept it as part of whatever strategic game they were playing by dumping VA.
 
NTLDaz
Posts: 360
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 7:56 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - February 2019

Thu Feb 28, 2019 5:13 am

DavidJ08 wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
I think NZ will rue the day it cut-off its relationship with VA. The tie-up with QF offers nothing in attracting long-haul pax and its questionable how much it offers domestically given QF will not want to sacrifice its own JetStar operations. It can never meaningfully expand the relationship due to competition issues on both sides of the Tasman. Meanwhile, it has lost access to the millions of Velocity members who may previously considered NZ for services across the Pacific. With New Zealand having a relatively small population, NZ has built their int'l network on attracting Australians to use AKL as a transit point. Many no longer consider this option and NZ as been forced to offer ridiculously low fares to attract Australians. I think this will continue for years; the loss of Australian transits will be making it very hard to profitably fill those NZ 77Ws.

It's commonly accepted that it was a boardroom bust up that saw NZ-VA relations go south, with ensuing reciprocal privilege rollbacks, divesting VA shareholding, and eventually a termination of the partnership. This may well have been a down side to it, but my guess would be that NZ execs (Luxon in particular) were willing to accept it as part of whatever strategic game they were playing by dumping VA.


IMO VA didn't pose any threat to NZ. However, new chums Qantas may. An expansion of non stop flights out of MEL and BNE may dilute connections in AKL for NZ.

Mind you, the huge NZ diaspora in Oz will always give NZ a market.
 
tullamarine
Posts: 2139
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 1999 1:14 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - February 2019

Thu Feb 28, 2019 5:29 am

SCFlyer wrote:
getluv wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
I think NZ will rue the day it cut-off its relationship with VA. The tie-up with QF offers nothing in attracting long-haul pax and its questionable how much it offers domestically given QF will not want to sacrifice its own JetStar operations. It can never meaningfully expand the relationship due to competition issues on both sides of the Tasman. Meanwhile, it has lost access to the millions of Velocity members who may previously considered NZ for services across the Pacific. With New Zealand having a relatively small population, NZ has built their int'l network on attracting Australians to use AKL as a transit point. Many no longer consider this option and NZ as been forced to offer ridiculously low fares to attract Australians. I think this will continue for years; the loss of Australian transits will be making it very hard to profitably fill those NZ 77Ws.


Velocity members were not able to earn points on NZ flights to North America well before the partnership ended.


And vice-versa for Airpoints members on VA's Long Haul (LAX and HKG) flights. The partnership started winding back (e.g both carriers winding back reciprocal rights on each other's long haul flights) when NZ/Luxon sold out of VA after the boardroom bust-up.

AirPoints has virtually zero traction in AU so I don't think the loss of points reciprocity affected VA too much. Star Alliance abandoned all the customers they had when AN's Global Rewards went down with no serious attempt to get these people to transfer to AirPoints, KrisFlyer etc. I doubt many New Zealanders ever headed to HKG or LAX via AU so the loss of pax would have been negligible. In fact, the points sharing was already gone (except Trans-Tasman) before VA even started HKG services.
717, 721/2, 732/3/4/5/7/8/9, 742/3/4, 752/3, 762/3, 772/E/W, 788/9, 300,310, 319,320/1, 332/3, 359, 388, DC9, DC10, F28, F100, 142,143, E75/90, CR2, D82/3/4, SF3, ATR
 
PA515
Posts: 1542
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:17 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - February 2019

Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:41 am

NZ6 wrote:
You're a legend with your aircraft tracking.. do you have a register of aircraft... or what do you do with this clear passion?


Deepinsider wrote:
Absolutely I agree. Not just a finger on the pulse, must be the whole hand!
Thanks PA515 for all your info.


Thanks guys. I keep a list of all the Air NZ fleet past, present and future and like adding new info like the first flight and delivery dates.

PA515
 
Deepinsider
Posts: 154
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2016 10:36 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - February 2019

Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:19 am

With both QF and NZ only months away from a
major large wide body order, critical for the future
of both carriers, BA have chosen the 779, vs A350
( 18, with 24 options ) . This will arguably add
confidence for the as yet unflown design. Pencils
might get sharpened in SYD and AKL....or not?

A really disappointing moment for RR, losing the
home carrier order... but then BA have 787's don't
they. Not sure of their Trent issues, but they can
sure see everyone else's.
 
User avatar
Zkpilot
Posts: 4316
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:21 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - February 2019

Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:05 pm

Deepinsider wrote:
With both QF and NZ only months away from a
major large wide body order, critical for the future
of both carriers, BA have chosen the 779, vs A350
( 18, with 24 options ) . This will arguably add
confidence for the as yet unflown design. Pencils
might get sharpened in SYD and AKL....or not?

A really disappointing moment for RR, losing the
home carrier order... but then BA have 787's don't
they. Not sure of their Trent issues, but they can
sure see everyone else's.

BA is quite different from NZ. Their order is replacing 744 for the most part and some older 772. They operate shorter flights between large cities where they can fill a larger plane and also have more premium pax.
NZ is looking for more P2P with smaller aircraft. It’ll be either the 778 or A35K (with a small chance of code3 789).
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