dtw2hyd
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:18 pm

chinmay17shetye wrote:
I think by now it is very clear that the Indian market prefers price over anything - specifically the Tier 2 market. .


There are exceptions to your assertion.

Kerala even with excellent LCC connectivity always asking for premium service. EK(English Keralite) middle management is from Kerala. There is a significant number of rich Keralites in ME. Combining them with the bulk of unskilled labor and ignoring that market segment only leads to yield loss.

This "Tier-2 is not premium" theory wiped out EU legacies from Hyderabad-US market, which is EK's India's #1 market to the USA. Google it.

With all its troubles AI successfully built DEL hub, it appears next move is to connect secondary cities to LHR.

Private carriers should be doing this, not AI.
 
AngMoh
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:37 pm

Vistara pilots are going to fly for SIA and Scoot as a part of training as well as to address delayed approval for international routes.

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/ ... -sia-scoot

This might also explain the rumour a while ago that Vistara pilots were trained for the 737. A lot of the secondary routes which might be good training routes are currently flown by MI 737s and they will be transferred to either SIA or Scoot once MI merges into SIA.
727 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 739ER 742 743 744 752 753 762 772 77E 773 77W 788 A300 A310 A319 A320 A321 A332 A333 A343 A345 A346 A359 A35K A388 DC-9 DC-10 MD11 MD81 MD82 MD87 F70 ERJ145 E170 E175 E190 E195 ATR72 Q400 CRJ200 CRJ700 CRJ900 BAE146 RJ85
 
CaliguyNYC
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Fri Feb 08, 2019 12:19 am

dtw2hyd wrote:
chinmay17shetye wrote:
I think by now it is very clear that the Indian market prefers price over anything - specifically the Tier 2 market. .


There are exceptions to your assertion.

Kerala even with excellent LCC connectivity always asking for premium service. EK(English Keralite) middle management is from Kerala. There is a significant number of rich Keralites in ME. Combining them with the bulk of unskilled labor and ignoring that market segment only leads to yield loss.

This "Tier-2 is not premium" theory wiped out EU legacies from Hyderabad-US market, which is EK's India's #1 market to the USA. Google it.

With all its troubles AI successfully built DEL hub, it appears next move is to connect secondary cities to LHR.

Private carriers should be doing this, not AI.


Makes total sense that HYD is EK’s #1 for US traffic originating in India. BOM/DEL/BLR/MAA all have a lot more options with BOM/DEL having a ton more. It’s actually sad that either HYD hasn’t developed enough higher value Y and then J pax to bring in more airlines or that EK and the ME3 built a stranglehold just as HYD grew and now Indian/EU airlines are shut out. I am still hoping Jet adds HYD-AMS. Although I think building BLR out with LHR/HKG would be a better play for jet if it could muster it.
 
VTORD
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Fri Feb 08, 2019 2:24 am

CaliguyNYC wrote:

It’s actually sad that either HYD hasn’t developed enough higher value Y and then J pax to bring in more airlines or that EK and the ME3 built a stranglehold just as HYD grew and now Indian/EU airlines are shut out.

Anecdotally, my impression is that your first statement is true for HYD. I have a very hard time explaining to my co-workers the $950 round trip ticket on CX is actually Basic Economy not exactly a "deal". Having said that around 2008-09, KL and LH both used to have a flight to HYD. The new airport opened in 2008 and then the global meltdown happened. When the economy picked up again, ME carriers were better positioned to capture the traffic. Telangana / Andhra Pradesh has always sent a significant number of workers to Saudi and Dubai. I am sure those O&D numbers help EK in addition to the US/Europe/IT traffic it carries out of HYD.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Fri Feb 08, 2019 12:21 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
It’s actually sad that either HYD hasn’t developed enough higher value Y and then J pax to bring in more airlines or that EK and the ME3 built a stranglehold just as HYD grew and now Indian/EU airlines are shut out. I am still hoping Jet adds HYD-AMS.


EK will use predatory pricing if anyone tries to enter HYD-US market. Both the US and EU legacies complain a lot about ME3, but never seriously fought back.

Only Indian carriers have successfully developed the skill to fight ME3. Sure BASA limits helped a bit. Imagine if just UAE carriers siphon out 180K/week seats to the US each way.

Also, ME3 are successful at HYD just because of middle east traffic is a myth. There are 7 flights between HYD-DXB alone. There are a lot more non-stops to other ME destinations, including a 744. So, unskilled labor filling EK Y is just a myth.

EY HYD#2,AMD #3, BOM #4, MAA #6, DEL#8 (Lahore #1)
QR COK #3, HYD#4, MAA #5, AMD #6, DEL is #7 (Khatmandu #1)

ME3 are dominating the secondary city markets.
 
sand26391
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Fri Feb 08, 2019 12:59 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:
It’s actually sad that either HYD hasn’t developed enough higher value Y and then J pax to bring in more airlines or that EK and the ME3 built a stranglehold just as HYD grew and now Indian/EU airlines are shut out. I am still hoping Jet adds HYD-AMS.


EK will use predatory pricing if anyone tries to enter HYD-US market. Both the US and EU legacies complain a lot about ME3, but never seriously fought back.

Only Indian carriers have successfully developed the skill to fight ME3. Sure BASA limits helped a bit. Imagine if just UAE carriers siphon out 180K/week seats to the US each way.

Also, ME3 are successful at HYD just because of middle east traffic is a myth. There are 7 flights between HYD-DXB alone. There are a lot more non-stops to other ME destinations, including a 744. So, unskilled labor filling EK Y is just a myth.

EY HYD#2,AMD #3, BOM #4, MAA #6, DEL#8 (Lahore #1)
QR COK #3, HYD#4, MAA #5, AMD #6, DEL is #7 (Khatmandu #1)

ME3 are dominating the secondary city markets.


:lol: :liar:
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Fri Feb 08, 2019 2:12 pm

Data I posted is about ME3 specific South Asia-US top connecting markets. It clearly shows secondary markets are their top source.

The total number of dumps people took at the Bangalore airport is irrelevant.
 
hohd
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Fri Feb 08, 2019 2:42 pm

HYD does have BA which has been successful in its daily operation. In fact when compared to 10 to 15 years ago there has no effective change in the number of EU airline frequencies, LH and KL had about 6 to 8 frequencies combined at that time, and then it was been replaced by BA, but BA does have good O & D too, which make is work for them. AI is looking at adding HYD and MAA, from LHR again. There were some reports that LH might start back up, but it has not materialized.
 
CaliguyNYC
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Fri Feb 08, 2019 2:52 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:
It’s actually sad that either HYD hasn’t developed enough higher value Y and then J pax to bring in more airlines or that EK and the ME3 built a stranglehold just as HYD grew and now Indian/EU airlines are shut out. I am still hoping Jet adds HYD-AMS.


EK will use predatory pricing if anyone tries to enter HYD-US market. Both the US and EU legacies complain a lot about ME3, but never seriously fought back.

Only Indian carriers have successfully developed the skill to fight ME3. Sure BASA limits helped a bit. Imagine if just UAE carriers siphon out 180K/week seats to the US each way.

Also, ME3 are successful at HYD just because of middle east traffic is a myth. There are 7 flights between HYD-DXB alone. There are a lot more non-stops to other ME destinations, including a 744. So, unskilled labor filling EK Y is just a myth.

EY HYD#2,AMD #3, BOM #4, MAA #6, DEL#8 (Lahore #1)
QR COK #3, HYD#4, MAA #5, AMD #6, DEL is #7 (Khatmandu #1)

ME3 are dominating the secondary city markets.


Not quite sure what your point is (I say this because I feel like your post is trying to bring out a truth about HYD - which I count as a tier 1 city btw). The only airlines that can really be successful out of HYD are those that fly a short haul to the long haul. This is because there are not enough J class px or premium Y pax originating in HYD heading to EU/US. BA can maintain LHR flights because there is some O&D demand that will pay a premium plus whatever premium US demand is there can get funneled to them. Other than ME3, AI has had really good success out of HYD. But look, AI can fly a short haul flight to DEL and then on to the US. So it works. This makes total sense to me given HYD's economy and the fact that such a large percent of HYD immigrants are relatively new to the US and unlikely to want to shell out top $$$. Finally I think you misunderstand the comment when people say HYD flights are helped by Mid East traffic. No one is saying that connecting traffic is not taken. The point is that HYD-ME tickets are priced relatively high (when compared to the flight to the US). The ME3 uses this premium to then subsidize the pax connecting on to the US. The ME3 do not want their flights to fill up with HYD-ME-JED pax. So they price that a bit higher and then offer super deals for pax to the US. Now in HYD's case, because there is so little competition, they might not see the same $700 roundtrip fares (even in DEC) that the ME3 offer JFK-BOM (and even with a US origination) where competition is high.
 
blrsea
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Fri Feb 08, 2019 3:06 pm

Among the few times I have taken flights to US from HYD over the last couple of years, EK was always cheaper than BA. Anecdotal evidence, take it for what its worth. I find BA times convenient from both HYD and BLR. However, company policy, have to go with cheaper option. But the EK flight from/to HYD has always been full. I wish more airlines offer early morning departures like BA, between 6-7AM. However, every airline other than BA from BLR/HYD have only midnight flights (for onwards flights to US).
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Fri Feb 08, 2019 3:38 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
...
Not quite sure what your point is (I say this because I feel like your post is trying to bring out a truth about HYD - which I count as a tier 1 city btw). The only airlines that can really be successful out of HYD are those that fly a short haul to the long haul. This is because there are not enough J class px or premium Y pax originating in HYD heading to EU/US. BA can maintain LHR flights because there is some O&D demand that will pay a premium plus whatever premium US demand is there can get funneled to them. Other than ME3, AI has had really good success out of HYD. But look, AI can fly a short haul flight to DEL and then on to the US. So it works. This makes total sense to me given HYD's economy and the fact that such a large percent of HYD immigrants are relatively new to the US and unlikely to want to shell out top $$$. Finally I think you misunderstand the comment when people say HYD flights are helped by Mid East traffic. No one is saying that connecting traffic is not taken. The point is that HYD-ME tickets are priced relatively high (when compared to the flight to the US). The ME3 uses this premium to then subsidize the pax connecting on to the US. The ME3 do not want their flights to fill up with HYD-ME-JED pax. So they price that a bit higher and then offer super deals for pax to the US. Now in HYD's case, because there is so little competition, they might not see the same $700 roundtrip fares (even in DEC) that the ME3 offer JFK-BOM (and even with a US origination) where competition is high.


No airline publishes LF and yield data separately for premium and economy, so that will be a never-ending discussion to prove whether HYD has enough premium market.
ME3 and BA have deployed considerable premium capacity to HYD.

BA HYD seems to do well on O&D than on connecting traffic, hence AI wants to get into this market because we know UA is not going to code-share with LHR.

Most of the Indian Doctors who migrated to the US in the 1960s are from combined Andhra Pradesh. Their families don't fly Y.
IT migrants prior to 2000 are well settled, they can afford to fly premium.
Commodity IT workers may settle for Y.
Students will go for the lowest fares.

Every airline cross-subsidizes across its network. Nothing unique to ME.

My point. EU/US legacies lost their way and not able climb back up. Sad.
 
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unrave
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Fri Feb 08, 2019 3:55 pm

None of the traffic figures quoted so far has any source, so has to be treated with the credibility it deserves.
Denial of racism is as egregious as racism itself
 
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unrave
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Fri Feb 08, 2019 5:47 pm

HYD is such a great market with ultra premium travellers that the only non labour camp international flight is a BA on 788
Denial of racism is as egregious as racism itself
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:49 pm

There are 29 total flights between Hyderabad-Middle East. Six of those are by primary sixth freedom carriers. I still fail to see the logic of why and how unskilled labor fly premium carriers like EK, EY or QR by paying more and skip ULCCs like 6E. Also not all unskilled labor going to Dubai, Abu Dhabi or Qatar.

Dubai
EK 525,527,529
6E 026
AI 951
FZ 436
SG 91

Abu Dhabi
EY 275,277

Doha International Airport
QR 501
6E 1713

Sharjah
6E 1405
G9 453
SG 961

Kuwait
J9 404
AI 987
SG 678

Muscat- Seeb International Apt
WY 232,240,236,238
AI 977

Bahrain
GF 275,276

King Abdulaziz International Apt
AI 965
SV 755

Riyadh
6E 1741
SV 753
XY 326
 
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CPS001
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:18 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
Riyadh
6E 1741


When is 6E starting Riyadh?
 
vadodara
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:33 pm

devmapper wrote:
Is there a difference in mindset for Indians living on the (US) West Coast vs the East Coast? Perhaps the pattern of immigration could point to why AI's DEL-SFO flight is profitable enough for AI to fly more than daily frequencies while EWR remains a problem child, and IAD presumably has never been profitable enough for AI to consider increasing frequencies to daily. I'm assuming the ORD and JFK flights, while not being profitable are able to cover their costs due to some connecting traffic.

It's a shame we'd never know what a UA-AI codeshare could have achieved. I think in 15-20 years, by the time the US-India travel market is as well developed as the US-China market is currently, either UA, or more likely AI is going to cease existence.


Where does the issue of mindset come?

Everyone votes with their pocket books.
Some who a accumulate FF miles stay to their alliance.
Some look for convenience.

AI has succeeded at SFO probably lot to do with convenience and UA’s apathy.
 
CaliguyNYC
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:39 pm

unrave wrote:
HYD is such a great market with ultra premium travellers that the only non labour camp international flight is a BA on 788


Totally agree with you.
I know there is a lot of passion around HYD so I'll widen the discussion to Indian aviation in general.
dtw2hyd - ME traffic to/from India is not just unskilled. Also even so called premium carriers work with consolidators for a portion of the unskilled crowd. Many cities in India have become dominated by the ME3. The advantage the ME3 has is (1) short haul flights ME/India (2) strong traffic flows to the Middle East - plus India-ME fares that are relatively high. Unclear to me why this is so controversial for you. Form my perspective India cities that generally lack EU/US airlines, lack those services for 3 main reasons: (1) there are low traffic flows to the US and/or Europe or (2) there is not enough premium demand or (3) the ME3 have skimmed off too much of the premium traffic that exists.
 
CaliguyNYC
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:45 pm

vadodara wrote:
devmapper wrote:
Is there a difference in mindset for Indians living on the (US) West Coast vs the East Coast? Perhaps the pattern of immigration could point to why AI's DEL-SFO flight is profitable enough for AI to fly more than daily frequencies while EWR remains a problem child, and IAD presumably has never been profitable enough for AI to consider increasing frequencies to daily. I'm assuming the ORD and JFK flights, while not being profitable are able to cover their costs due to some connecting traffic.

It's a shame we'd never know what a UA-AI codeshare could have achieved. I think in 15-20 years, by the time the US-India travel market is as well developed as the US-China market is currently, either UA, or more likely AI is going to cease existence.


Where does the issue of mindset come?

Everyone votes with their pocket books.
Some who a accumulate FF miles stay to their alliance.
Some look for convenience.

AI has succeeded at SFO probably lot to do with convenience and UA’s apathy.


Think it is the sweet spot of UA frequent fliers (who get reasonable FF credit - this matters because it opens AI up to people that might never otherwise fly AI) plus a ton of recent immigrants that, contrary to those on net, seem totally happy to fly AI. Btw I really find it hard to believe that EWR-BOM is a problem child. UA flies a 77W with like 60 J seats and never has saver J available and AI started JFK-BOM rather than EWR-DEL. Also, like SFO, EWR benefits from a ton of recent immigrants.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:56 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
...Form my perspective India cities that generally lack EU/US airlines, lack those services for 3 main reasons: (1) there are low traffic flows to the US and/or Europe or (2) there is not enough premium demand or (3) the ME3 have skimmed off too much of the premium traffic that exists.


This is not just about HYD. AMD is in the same boat and a few others.

You are giving three reasons, but you seem to pretty clear it is #2.

Between EK, EY, QR, AI, and BA there are 320+ premium seats daily to HYD. For a spoke that is decent premium capacity. Are they all empty??
 
VTORD
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:24 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
There are 29 total flights between Hyderabad-Middle East. Six of those are by primary sixth freedom carriers. I still fail to see the logic of why and how unskilled labor fly premium carriers like EK, EY or QR by paying more and skip ULCCs like 6E. Also not all unskilled labor going to Dubai, Abu Dhabi or Qatar.


1 x 6E NB can only carry as many pax and there will be enough left to fill the 3 x EK WBs.

Not all "worker" traffic to the ME is low-wage unskilled. The financial, hospitality and retail sector in the ME employs a large number of educated well paid Indians. There's also the "wedding shopping in Dubai" and "14-days, 13-nights Europe tour" crowd that fills the backs of these planes.

Lastly employers in the ME will usually pay for your ticket to your workplace from the home country. That's how the unskilled labor can fly premium carriers. Employers will also buy you a return airfare to/from first port of international entry in your home country provided you have worked at least 22 months. When you quit, if your contract has ended (work visas in UAE are typically 3 years), they will pay for the airfare to return to your home country. I would know. I used to work there. Albiet it has been almost 10 years since so...folks from the region please feel free to correct me.
 
devmapper
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:50 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
vadodara wrote:
AI has succeeded at SFO probably lot to do with convenience and UA’s apathy.


Think it is the sweet spot of UA frequent fliers (who get reasonable FF credit - this matters because it opens AI up to people that might never otherwise fly AI) plus a ton of recent immigrants that, contrary to those on net, seem totally happy to fly AI. Btw I really find it hard to believe that EWR-BOM is a problem child. UA flies a 77W with like 60 J seats and never has saver J available and AI started JFK-BOM rather than EWR-DEL. Also, like SFO, EWR benefits from a ton of recent immigrants.


I think there is more to AI's relative success at SFO than just UA's apathy, especially keeping in mind the drawdown from EY and QR's non-involvement.

Also, EWR-BOM is a problem child for AI, not UA. Which brings me back to my point, why is a section of the diaspora willing to fly AI (often at ME3's expense), while the other section (double the size of the former) so disinterested in AI that it has trouble running twice-daily flights to the same market?
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:01 pm

VTORD wrote:
1 x 6E NB can only carry as many pax and there will be enough left to fill the 3 x EK WBs.

Not all "worker" traffic to the ME is low-wage unskilled. The financial, hospitality and retail sector in the ME employs a large number of educated well paid Indians. There's also the "wedding shopping in Dubai" and "14-days, 13-nights Europe tour" crowd that fills the backs of these planes.

Lastly employers in the ME will usually pay for your ticket to your workplace from the home country. That's how the unskilled labor can fly premium carriers. Employers will also buy you a return airfare to/from first port of international entry in your home country provided you have worked at least 22 months. When you quit, if your contract has ended (work visas in UAE are typically 3 years), they will pay for the airfare to return to your home country. I would know. I used to work there. Albiet it has been almost 10 years since so...folks from the region please feel free to correct me.


All are valid points but doesn't prove "There is no premium traffic between HYD-US" blanket statement, which a.net is trying to prove with just expert opinions and without any data.

What kind of premium traffic KL was expecting with a rundown MD-11 and LH with an old 343?

There is news that LH is replacing MD11 freighter with 77F with increased frequency to HYD. Not sure if pharma cargo can be carried in the belly of a passenger plane.

Legacy EU carriers cannot expand their network in India because of their unions. Every other reason is just an excuse.
 
CaliguyNYC
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:16 pm

devmapper wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:
vadodara wrote:
AI has succeeded at SFO probably lot to do with convenience and UA’s apathy.


Think it is the sweet spot of UA frequent fliers (who get reasonable FF credit - this matters because it opens AI up to people that might never otherwise fly AI) plus a ton of recent immigrants that, contrary to those on net, seem totally happy to fly AI. Btw I really find it hard to believe that EWR-BOM is a problem child. UA flies a 77W with like 60 J seats and never has saver J available and AI started JFK-BOM rather than EWR-DEL. Also, like SFO, EWR benefits from a ton of recent immigrants.


I think there is more to AI's relative success at SFO than just UA's apathy, especially keeping in mind the drawdown from EY and QR's non-involvement.

Also, EWR-BOM is a problem child for AI, not UA. Which brings me back to my point, why is a section of the diaspora willing to fly AI (often at ME3's expense), while the other section (double the size of the former) so disinterested in AI that it has trouble running twice-daily flights to the same market?


Once again, other than Anet lore, there is no evidence that EWR-BOM performs any worse or better than another AI nonstop. In fact AI is normally at a premium to one stops and even over UA nonstop in coach (UA kills it in J). The most obvious SFO advantage to me is no nonstop competition for the AI flight while NYC has 4 nonstops to India. Also SFO is dominated by STAR. In New York call it 50% is EWR only, 40% is JFK only and 10% is both. But add to that that many professional in NYC will be alliance tied. For NYC, OW, STAR and ST are all strong. So the diaspora ends up not being so big. I am ST all the way. Have I toyed with shifting to STAR to take advantage of the nonstops to BOM, hell yeah. But in the end I like Delta’s domestic premium cabins more. And work travel trumps my yearly trip to India. in every city that AI has a nonstop I bet you it is the same crowd that uses them - recent immigrants, older Indian Americans and STAR flyers. IAD at 3X probably only sees people with flexible schedules (I would imagine) like reitrees and families.
 
edealinfo
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Sat Feb 09, 2019 2:03 am

dtw2hyd wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
Could you please indicate how many seats for the bilateral have not been utilized. My understanding is that seats are 100 percent exhausted for DXB, AUH, and Sharjah for carriers on the Indian and UAE sides


Etihad is close to 50% on its side of 50K, obviously it also has access to Indian side quota thru 9W, say 40K (10K to others). So Abu Dhabi has plenty to grow.

Emirates annual average was 49K/week during 2017-18, but on some weeks it probably crossed 68K/week (110% of 62K BASA). The Indian side also north of 90%.

Air Arabia annual average 17K/week of 20K/week max.

RAK 20K is an issue, Air Arabia wants to use that 20K.

These are ballpark numbers based on crude math, a.net auditors need not ask for a forensic audit.


Your information is either outdated or incorrect. According to the article below from livemint.com as of January 30, 2019 "“We have more than 1,068 flights a week between all Indian airports and UAE airports," Al Banna said. There are 168,000 seats a week shared by Indian and UAE carriers. In the case of the UAE, Indian carriers have used up rights completely while in the case of Qatar, it was up to 90%, the envoy said."
 
voxkel
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Sat Feb 09, 2019 3:01 am

Apparently it seems that AI pushed JFK-BOM back to an evening departure. The plane would be at JFK all day then.

I am curious as to why they did this. Is it a slot issue at BOM, or a tactic to attract more business travellers at JFK (who could now have a full work day)?

For many people (esp families) the noon departure from JFK was definitely a selling point over UA from EWR.
 
binayak
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:27 am

DGCA has rejected the proposal of jet, indigo to extend the time limit from diversionary airport for the a320neo and b737max .
Well I don't think any route other than IXZ will be affected.
The gulf routes will still have a diversionary airport within an hour. Won't they?
The best preparation for tomorrow is doing your best today
 
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unrave
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:32 am

IndiGo follows an inland route for its BLR HKG flight because of ETOPS limitations. Flights to the south east will also be affected
Denial of racism is as egregious as racism itself
 
anshabhi
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:34 am

binayak wrote:
DGCA has rejected the proposal of jet, indigo to extend the time limit from diversionary airport for the a320neo and b737max .
Well I don't think any route other than IXZ will be affected.
The gulf routes will still have a diversionary airport within an hour. Won't they?

No. 6E doesn't send NEO to gulf or SIN at all. Even 9W's BLR-HKG is having to take a longer route because of this.

(I totally support it though)
 
avier
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:39 am

GoAir's midnight red-eye flight from Mumbai - Kannur moves to a day time flight from Summer '19.
BOM- CNN 13:30 - 15:25
CNN-BOM 15:55 - 18:00

Slot comes by dropping one of two daily on BOM-JAI.
 
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pushpakvimaan
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:38 am

I find connecting through Indian airports a pleasure. Good food in cafeteria and lounges.
Easy to connect to multiple connections (not fixated to chose the same airline). Coming from Europe and connect on to a Tier-2 city via a LCC. It works perfectly.

We discuss more about Tier-2 city connectivity, but ignore the fact that many still connect from Tier-2/3 city to a metro airport via train.
 
vadodara
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Sat Feb 09, 2019 2:14 pm

devmapper wrote:
vadodara wrote:
AI has succeeded at SFO probably lot to do with convenience and UA’s apathy.


Think it is the sweet spot of UA frequent fliers (who get reasonable FF credit - this matters because it opens AI up to people that might never otherwise fly AI) plus a ton of recent immigrants that, contrary to those on net, seem totally happy to fly AI. Btw I really find it hard to believe that EWR-BOM is a problem child. UA flies a 77W with like 60 J seats and never has saver J available and AI started JFK-BOM rather than EWR-DEL. Also, like SFO, EWR benefits from a ton of recent immigrants.


I think there is more to AI's relative success at SFO than just UA's apathy, especially keeping in mind the drawdown from EY and QR's non-involvement. [/quote]

Again, read my previous comment's. There is a reason for EY's and QR's draw-down at SFO. If AI improved it's game, it could win a few more battles. But it is a big 'if'!

devmapper wrote:
Also, EWR-BOM is a problem child for AI, not UA. Which brings me back to my point, why is a section of the diaspora willing to fly AI (often at ME3's expense), while the other section (double the size of the former) so disinterested in AI that it has trouble running twice-daily flights to the same market?


Umm, you are forgetting the UF FF holders in the NY-NJ area as well as a true 'EWR' hub. What similar advantage AI has at BOM? One runway hub with possibly a bank of 8 flights?
 
CaliguyNYC
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Sat Feb 09, 2019 5:31 pm

voxkel wrote:
Apparently it seems that AI pushed JFK-BOM back to an evening departure. The plane would be at JFK all day then.

I am curious as to why they did this. Is it a slot issue at BOM, or a tactic to attract more business travellers at JFK (who could now have a full work day)?

For many people (esp families) the noon departure from JFK was definitely a selling point over UA from EWR.


Really? I don’t see that when I search for flights even in Nov 2019. What are the timings/source? If they did I guess there is logic to it. Just like what they did in SFO. Have a daily afternoon departure to DEL and then a evening one to BOM (that DEL travelers can also use). Give people options. I still think the 3X JFK-BOM flight was dumb. They should have started EWR-DEL 3X. DEL is their hub.
 
binayak
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Sat Feb 09, 2019 5:47 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
Give people options. I still think the 3X JFK-BOM flight was dumb. They should have started EWR-DEL 3X. DEL is their hub.


AI couldn't help taking advantage of the situation and starting a business heavy route that 2 other airlines blissfully didn't for a long time (And those 2 were in the right position to make this route work). ;)
The best preparation for tomorrow is doing your best today
 
edealinfo
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:35 pm

Are there any Indigo "insiders" or employees on this thread? If so, could you throw light on how the advance bookings are doing on Indigo's New Delhi to Istanbul flight. Thanks.
 
voxkel
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:14 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
voxkel wrote:
Apparently it seems that AI pushed JFK-BOM back to an evening departure. The plane would be at JFK all day then.

I am curious as to why they did this. Is it a slot issue at BOM, or a tactic to attract more business travellers at JFK (who could now have a full work day)?

For many people (esp families) the noon departure from JFK was definitely a selling point over UA from EWR.


Really? I don’t see that when I search for flights even in Nov 2019. What are the timings/source? If they did I guess there is logic to it. Just like what they did in SFO. Have a daily afternoon departure to DEL and then a evening one to BOM (that DEL travelers can also use). Give people options. I still think the 3X JFK-BOM flight was dumb. They should have started EWR-DEL 3X. DEL is their hub.


I guess but it is not a good idea IMO to have that 77W sitting at JFK all day. FWIW this is what AI did to the BOM flight back in 07/08.

Out of curiosity, could AI route planes BOM-JFK-DEL and DEL-JFK-BOM? Such a scheme could open up interesting scheduling opportunities.
 
JOYA380B747
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Sun Feb 10, 2019 1:02 am

voxkel wrote:
Apparently it seems that AI pushed JFK-BOM back to an evening departure. The plane would be at JFK all day then.

I am curious as to why they did this. Is it a slot issue at BOM, or a tactic to attract more business travellers at JFK (who could now have a full work day)?

For many people (esp families) the noon departure from JFK was definitely a selling point over UA from EWR.


I believe it could be due to the 11am-5pm runway maintenance work at BOM causing several flight reschedulings and cancellations out of the airport.
India's biggest loss w.r.t global aviation (so far) - Being an Australasia-Europe stopover.
 
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unrave
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:27 am

IndiGo has had severe operational issues for the last two days. As many as 75 flights were cancelled yesterday and dozens have been cancelled so far today.
Denial of racism is as egregious as racism itself
 
binayak
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:38 am

unrave wrote:
IndiGo has had severe operational issues for the last two days. As many as 75 flights were cancelled yesterday and dozens have been cancelled so far today.


Grounding of aircraft due to engine issues?
The best preparation for tomorrow is doing your best today
 
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unrave
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:42 am

binayak wrote:
unrave wrote:
IndiGo has had severe operational issues for the last two days. As many as 75 flights were cancelled yesterday and dozens have been cancelled so far today.


Grounding of aircraft due to engine issues?

No, crew scheduling issues.
Denial of racism is as egregious as racism itself
 
anshabhi
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:52 am

edealinfo wrote:
Are there any Indigo "insiders" or employees on this thread? If so, could you throw light on how the advance bookings are doing on Indigo's New Delhi to Istanbul flight. Thanks.

The fares can also be a good representation of how full the flight is. For most of April-May, the promo fares of 14k are still available, though some dates are doing very good with 20k one way fares. This is for DEL-IST

Image
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 7075
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Sun Feb 10, 2019 2:11 pm

Well, the cash-rich well-run airline is looking to conserve cash!!!

However, in an indication of squeezed margins, the airline has been forced to go back to the old model. Chief Financial Officer Rohit Philip said IndiGo has used the sale and leaseback model for the recent two additions in its fleet of ATR aircraft.

The airline now has a fleet of 14 ATRs. Of these, the first 12 were bought as cash purchases.

"During the periods of uncertainty, it is always prudent for airlines to manage cash carefully. So we decided to finance the next tranche of five airplane through an operating lease, and then we make a case-by-case basis beyond that," said Philip. He said the airline will be using the sale and leaseback model for the next three ATRs too.


https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/busin ... 89701.html

Can we open a running out of cash thread?
 
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unrave
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Sun Feb 10, 2019 2:16 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
Well, the cash-rich well-run airline is looking to conserve cash!!!

However, in an indication of squeezed margins, the airline has been forced to go back to the old model. Chief Financial Officer Rohit Philip said IndiGo has used the sale and leaseback model for the recent two additions in its fleet of ATR aircraft.

The airline now has a fleet of 14 ATRs. Of these, the first 12 were bought as cash purchases.

"During the periods of uncertainty, it is always prudent for airlines to manage cash carefully. So we decided to finance the next tranche of five airplane through an operating lease, and then we make a case-by-case basis beyond that," said Philip. He said the airline will be using the sale and leaseback model for the next three ATRs too.


https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/busin ... 89701.html

Can we open a running out of cash thread?


In INDIAN English, looking to conserve cash does not mean running out of cash.
Denial of racism is as egregious as racism itself
 
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unrave
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Sun Feb 10, 2019 2:21 pm

unrave wrote:
IndiGo has had severe operational issues for the last two days. As many as 75 flights were cancelled yesterday and dozens have been cancelled so far today.


IndiGo has provided a clarification:
"Due to a severe hailstorm in North India on Thursday, Feb 07, 2019, 11 IndiGo flights were diverted. Consequently, this disrupted operations across our network the following day.

"As part of recovering our schedule, positioning of the crew and aircraft had to be readjusted. As a result, a number of flights were cancelled. We regret the inconvenience caused to our customers,"


https://www.livemint.com/companies/news ... 35733.html
Denial of racism is as egregious as racism itself
 
binayak
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Sun Feb 10, 2019 2:32 pm

unrave wrote:
binayak wrote:

Grounding of aircraft due to engine issues?

No, crew scheduling issues.


Are the cancellations concentrated at one base or multiple bases?
The best preparation for tomorrow is doing your best today
 
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unrave
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Sun Feb 10, 2019 2:33 pm

binayak wrote:

Are the cancellations concentrated at one base or multiple bases?

Cancellations seem to have happened across the network. Looks like it is a fallout of the thunderstorms on Friday
Denial of racism is as egregious as racism itself
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 7075
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Sun Feb 10, 2019 3:44 pm

binayak wrote:
Are the cancellations concentrated at one base or multiple bases?


Appears to be across the network going into Monday. Several alleged claims like captain shortage, 100 pilots short to maintain schedule, pilots quitting at one base. Usual Bring Your Own Salt(BYOS) rule applies like with any other news coming out.
 
binayak
Posts: 967
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 2:00 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Sun Feb 10, 2019 4:14 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
binayak wrote:
Are the cancellations concentrated at one base or multiple bases?


Appears to be across the network going into Monday. Several alleged claims like captain shortage, 100 pilots short to maintain schedule, pilots quitting at one base. Usual Bring Your Own Salt(BYOS) rule applies like with any other news coming out.


Seems fishy as till a couple of days ago, everything was alright and today all of a sudden captain shortage!
On average a pilot or an FA flying domestic does 4 flights on a working day . Since 75 flights are cancelled today, around 19 captains seem to have quit today. Wonder why they're quitting in large numbers if the news is true.
The best preparation for tomorrow is doing your best today
 
avier
Posts: 894
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Sun Feb 10, 2019 4:46 pm

There is a notice period of one year for commanders (unless somethings changed). So it's not possible they quit and walk out next day. One year is ample time for the airline to work out the upcoming vacancy.

It could be a case of mutiple pilots reporting sick from a certain base. Or pilots having exhausted flying hours per FDTL due to having been overworked. Or weather disruptions affecting crew scheduling, as another user pointed out.
I also imagined if runway work at BOM happening thrice a week with lot of cancellations ( and also at BLR & DEL??) , is affecting crew scheduling/positioning for flights.

9W is another airline that has been having many cancellations everyday across the network, even int'l. Their reasons are obvious.
 
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unrave
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Sun Feb 10, 2019 4:57 pm

binayak wrote:
On average a pilot or an FA flying domestic does 4 flights on a working day . Since 75 flights are cancelled today, around 19 captains seem to have quit today. Wonder why they're quitting in large numbers if the news is true.

Where does it say that pilots have quit en masse?
Denial of racism is as egregious as racism itself
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 7075
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:17 pm

Indigo social media team tried to have some fun with its passengers on Twitter. Seriously backfired.

https://twitter.com/IndiGo6E/status/1093112035359879168

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