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unrave
Posts: 2682
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:37 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:19 pm

IndiGo to cancel 30 daily flights till 30MAR with the schedule normalising only on 31MAR. This is about 2% of the daily capacity.
17April2019: RIP Jet Airways
 
avier
Posts: 921
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:38 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:19 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
avier wrote:
^ So their plans for having seasoned professionals is not happening. They could have thought of some NRI (on the likes of Vinay Dubey, Rono Dutta) from the aviation sector in the US.


They appointed Daggubati Purandeswari as BoD, no one else is better qualified.

I think an AI employee has to be an Indian citizen. Has to be an Indian Administrative Service member to beg(quietly) from other public sector units like oil companies/Airports and PSBs.

If they appoint someone from the private sector, immediately oil companies, airports, and banks cut off their credit lines. Only IxS fraternity keeps AI running.


All of that is news to me. If that's the case, they should keep a sarkari head as a puppet and under him/her have other pvt sector professionals running the actual show.
 
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unrave
Posts: 2682
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:21 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:

I think an AI employee has to be an Indian citizen. Has to be an Indian Administrative Service member to beg(quietly) from other public sector units like oil companies/Airports and PSBs.

If they appoint someone from the private sector, immediately oil companies, airports, and banks cut off their credit lines. Only IxS fraternity keeps AI running.


This can be safely filed under "FICTION"
17April2019: RIP Jet Airways
 
anshabhi
Posts: 2131
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:40 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:28 pm

unrave wrote:
AI has gobbled up ~$11bn of taxpayer funds since 2012 with nothing to show for it.


Yeah I agree its inefficient, but they do fly almost 20 million pax every year. Remove the debt burden, which is a legacy issue, and AI is a pretty attractive airline even in modern times.
 
binayak
Posts: 979
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 2:00 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:33 pm

With Mr Lohani back , I think we can expect AI to better utilize its 77Ws and 788s .
Some suggestions (for better utilization of 777s) can be:

77W :
DEL-JFK-DEL (7w)
DEL-ORD-DEL(7w)
DEL-SFO-DEL(9w)
DEL-LHR-DEL(Replace one of the frequencies with a 77W because no more slots at LHR so that's how you can build capacity)
BOM-LHR-BOM (Replace 788 with 77W)
BOM-EWR-BOM (7w)
BOM-JFK-BOM (make this 7w from 3w)
DEL-IAD-DEL (make this 7w from 3w)
DEL-PHL-DEL ( AI can add this route with a 3w flight as there's a good number of Indians living in Pennsylvania and there are very
few one stop options for PHL- India )

77Ls :
Since most of the US - DEL routes can be done with 77W , AI can base the 77Ls out of BOM and have the following:
BOM - ORD- BOM (6w)
That leaves 1 77L and utilizes all the 15 77Ws . The 1 77L can be used as a spare aircraft . The good thing about basing them out of BOM is that AI won't have to run those low density LRs on DEL-BOM routes .
The best preparation for tomorrow is doing your best today
 
anshabhi
Posts: 2131
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:40 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:35 pm

Breaking: @goairlinesindia CEO Cornelis Vrieswijk has resigned from LCC, 8 months into the job.

https://twitter.com/27saurabhsinha/stat ... 3499638785

binayak wrote:
With Mr Lohani back , I think we can expect AI to better utilize its 77Ws and 788s .
Some suggestions (for better utilization of 777s) can be:

77W :
DEL-JFK-DEL (7w)
DEL-ORD-DEL(7w)
DEL-SFO-DEL(9w)
DEL-LHR-DEL(Replace one of the frequencies with a 77W because no more slots at LHR so that's how you can build capacity)
BOM-LHR-BOM (Replace 788 with 77W)
BOM-EWR-BOM (7w)
BOM-JFK-BOM (make this 7w from 3w)
DEL-IAD-DEL (make this 7w from 3w)
DEL-PHL-DEL ( AI can add this route with a 3w flight as there's a good number of Indians living in Pennsylvania and there are very
few one stop options for PHL- India )

77Ls :
Since most of the US - DEL routes can be done with 77W , AI can base the 77Ls out of BOM and have the following:
BOM - ORD- BOM (6w)
That leaves 1 77L and utilizes all the 15 77Ws . The 1 77L can be used as a spare aircraft . The good thing about basing them out of BOM is that AI won't have to run those low density LRs on DEL-BOM routes .


That's quite quick and elaborate !! Good Work !!
Last edited by anshabhi on Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
avier
Posts: 921
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:36 pm

anshabhi wrote:
unrave wrote:
AI has gobbled up ~$11bn of taxpayer funds since 2012 with nothing to show for it.


Yeah I agree its inefficient, but they do fly almost 20 million pax every year. Remove the debt burden, which is a legacy issue, and AI is a pretty attractive airline even in modern times.


Their employees are certainly not so attractive (pun intended) to any investor.

Haven't their pilots union set up their own relaxed FDTL compared to the one mandated by DGCA? Something like maximum 4 landings/day compared to 6 landings/day allowed by DGCA and adopted by all other airlines. (?)
 
avier
Posts: 921
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:38 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:38 pm

anshabhi wrote:
Breaking: @goairlinesindia CEO Cornelis Vrieswijk has resigned from LCC, 8 months into the job.

https://twitter.com/27saurabhsinha/stat ... 3499638785


That is indeed a breaking & shocking news. It's obvious no one can handle the Wadias.
 
anshabhi
Posts: 2131
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:40 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:38 pm

avier wrote:
Their employees are certainly not so attractive (pun intended) to any investor.

Haven't their pilots union set up their own relaxed FDTL compared to the one mandated by DGCA? Something like maximum 4 landings/day compared to 6 landings/day allowed by DGCA and adopted by all other airlines. (?)


They have got a talented set of pilots with skills ranging from B747 to A320 to ATR 72 .. FA's are an issue agreed, but their staff retirement rate is high and they are recruiting new faces too. I don't have any particular issues with their ground staff

Those airlines are now facing 1000 hours/year limit too. And honestly, 6 landings per day is pure torture.
AI's network doesn't have that many short hauls that they could do 6 landings in 8 hour shift ..

How is 6E going to take delivery of new aircraft with these 30 cancellations?
 
User avatar
unrave
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:53 pm

Nepal based Buddha Air announces the launch of 3x weekly KTM-CCU flights wef 15APR19
17April2019: RIP Jet Airways
 
avier
Posts: 921
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:38 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Wed Feb 13, 2019 3:06 pm

anshabhi wrote:
avier wrote:
Their employees are certainly not so attractive (pun intended) to any investor.

Haven't their pilots union set up their own relaxed FDTL compared to the one mandated by DGCA? Something like maximum 4 landings/day compared to 6 landings/day allowed by DGCA and adopted by all other airlines. (?)


They have got a talented set of pilots with skills ranging from B747 to A320 to ATR 72 .. FA's are an issue agreed, but their staff retirement rate is high and they are recruiting new faces too. I don't have any particular issues with their ground staff

Those airlines are now facing 1000 hours/year limit too. And honestly, 6 landings per day is pure torture.
AI's network doesn't have that many short hauls that they could do 6 landings in 8 hour shift ..



Well the point is, a heavily unionized airline is not something any investor would want to dive into. The employees would still run the airline by way of their demands.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Wed Feb 13, 2019 3:53 pm

anshabhi wrote:
FA's are an issue agreed, but their staff retirement rate is high and they are recruiting new faces too. I don't have any particular issues with their ground staff


Natural attrition has a few advantages. Aged unionized permanent employees are being replaced by young contract employees. The ubiquitous AI granny FA may be the thing of the past. Also, so-called executive pilots are a huge burden, AI has pay for their training but they fly minimum hours to keep the license active. Flushing them out increases productivity.

I personally believe AI should hire Eastern European flight attendants if it wants to attract more European business class passengers. But I think no foreign employee rule is a hurdle.
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 1112
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Wed Feb 13, 2019 5:23 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
anshabhi wrote:
FA's are an issue agreed, but their staff retirement rate is high and they are recruiting new faces too. I don't have any particular issues with their ground staff


Natural attrition has a few advantages. Aged unionized permanent employees are being replaced by young contract employees. The ubiquitous AI granny FA may be the thing of the past. Also, so-called executive pilots are a huge burden, AI has pay for their training but they fly minimum hours to keep the license active. Flushing them out increases productivity.

I personally believe AI should hire Eastern European flight attendants if it wants to attract more European business class passengers. But I think no foreign employee rule is a hurdle.


Sorry...what? European business people do not chose airlines by the race of the staff. And even if a few do, AI should absolutely not give 2 sh*** about this. His issue is reliability and their soft product. If they had competitive J seats, cleanliness and consistent food/service, J class would fly them. Having European staff is not the answer.
 
chinmay17shetye
Posts: 72
Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2015 12:24 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Wed Feb 13, 2019 5:33 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:

I personally believe AI should hire Eastern European flight attendants if it wants to attract more European business class passengers. But I think no foreign employee rule is a hurdle.


Explain your logic. Your statement is almost racist.
 
VTORD
Posts: 586
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:45 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Wed Feb 13, 2019 6:09 pm

chinmay17shetye wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:

I personally believe AI should hire Eastern European flight attendants if it wants to attract more European business class passengers. But I think no foreign employee rule is a hurdle.


Explain your logic. Your statement is almost racist.


It is also literally sexist. And irrelevant.

binayak wrote:
With Mr Lohani back , I think we can expect AI to better utilize its 77Ws and 788s .
Some suggestions (for better utilization of 777s) can be:

77W :
DEL-JFK-DEL (7w)
DEL-ORD-DEL(7w)
DEL-SFO-DEL(9w)
DEL-LHR-DEL(Replace one of the frequencies with a 77W because no more slots at LHR so that's how you can build capacity)
BOM-LHR-BOM (Replace 788 with 77W)
BOM-EWR-BOM (7w)
BOM-JFK-BOM (make this 7w from 3w)
DEL-IAD-DEL (make this 7w from 3w)
DEL-PHL-DEL ( AI can add this route with a 3w flight as there's a good number of Indians living in Pennsylvania and there are very
few one stop options for PHL- India )

77Ls :
Since most of the US - DEL routes can be done with 77W , AI can base the 77Ls out of BOM and have the following:
BOM - ORD- BOM (6w)
That leaves 1 77L and utilizes all the 15 77Ws . The 1 77L can be used as a spare aircraft . The good thing about basing them out of BOM is that AI won't have to run those low density LRs on DEL-BOM routes .

That's some good work mate!! Though I am not sure IAD going 7w. Me thinks it's mostly diplomatic traffic likely so keep it 3w and open up may be LAX with a TPAC routing?

Just a random thought: Would there be any benefit for AI to use SJC for AI183/184? Its a much more convenient airport especially for the south bay silicon valley campuses and it's really efficient too compared to SFO.
 
YouGeeElWhy
Posts: 437
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2014 3:42 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Wed Feb 13, 2019 6:28 pm

VTORD wrote:
binayak wrote:
With Mr Lohani back , I think we can expect AI to better utilize its 77Ws and 788s .
Some suggestions (for better utilization of 777s) can be:

77W :
DEL-JFK-DEL (7w)
DEL-ORD-DEL(7w)
DEL-SFO-DEL(9w)
DEL-LHR-DEL(Replace one of the frequencies with a 77W because no more slots at LHR so that's how you can build capacity)
BOM-LHR-BOM (Replace 788 with 77W)
BOM-EWR-BOM (7w)
BOM-JFK-BOM (make this 7w from 3w)
DEL-IAD-DEL (make this 7w from 3w)
DEL-PHL-DEL ( AI can add this route with a 3w flight as there's a good number of Indians living in Pennsylvania and there are very
few one stop options for PHL- India )

77Ls :
Since most of the US - DEL routes can be done with 77W , AI can base the 77Ls out of BOM and have the following:
BOM - ORD- BOM (6w)
That leaves 1 77L and utilizes all the 15 77Ws . The 1 77L can be used as a spare aircraft . The good thing about basing them out of BOM is that AI won't have to run those low density LRs on DEL-BOM routes .

That's some good work mate!! Though I am not sure IAD going 7w. Me thinks it's mostly diplomatic traffic likely so keep it 3w and open up may be LAX with a TPAC routing?

Just a random thought: Would there be any benefit for AI to use SJC for AI183/184? Its a much more convenient airport especially for the south bay silicon valley campuses and it's really efficient too compared to SFO.


If AI wants to be competitive with SQ, ME2 and EU3 it needs to refresh that drab/tired J product and connect more US cities (LAX/DFW/IAH/SEA/ATL) with daily flights. If that means they need to drop some frequencies or drop BOM-USA then they should do it. Focus that US traffic on DEL and be the best they can be. They have a natural advantage that only AI can replicate.
 
binayak
Posts: 979
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 2:00 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Wed Feb 13, 2019 6:36 pm

VTORD wrote:

binayak wrote:
With Mr Lohani back , I think we can expect AI to better utilize its 77Ws and 788s .
Some suggestions (for better utilization of 777s) can be:

77W :
DEL-JFK-DEL (7w)
DEL-ORD-DEL(7w)
DEL-SFO-DEL(9w)
DEL-LHR-DEL(Replace one of the frequencies with a 77W because no more slots at LHR so that's how you can build capacity)
BOM-LHR-BOM (Replace 788 with 77W)
BOM-EWR-BOM (7w)
BOM-JFK-BOM (make this 7w from 3w)
DEL-IAD-DEL (make this 7w from 3w)
DEL-PHL-DEL ( AI can add this route with a 3w flight as there's a good number of Indians living in Pennsylvania and there are very
few one stop options for PHL- India )

77Ls :
Since most of the US - DEL routes can be done with 77W , AI can base the 77Ls out of BOM and have the following:
BOM - ORD- BOM (6w)
That leaves 1 77L and utilizes all the 15 77Ws . The 1 77L can be used as a spare aircraft . The good thing about basing them out of BOM is that AI won't have to run those low density LRs on DEL-BOM routes .

That's some good work mate!! Though I am not sure IAD going 7w. Me thinks it's mostly diplomatic traffic likely so keep it 3w and open up may be LAX with a TPAC routing?

Just a random thought: Would there be any benefit for AI to use SJC for AI183/184? Its a much more convenient airport especially for the south bay silicon valley campuses and it's really efficient too compared to SFO.


Given the Indian diaspora at IAD, 7w in winter and 3-4w rest of the year can also be an option.
LAX can sustain a non stop to India but here we need to consider that first, the aircraft we're talking about is a 77W and second, this is Air India!
Unless AI has a competitive product (hard product), they should go for either * hubs or high VFR concentrated areas in the US only.
AI 183/184 timing wise isn't suited for business travel IMO. This one might be to capture more VFR crowd which is more towards SFO than SJC. Let's see whether this frequency continues after UA joins the game.
The best preparation for tomorrow is doing your best today
 
anshabhi
Posts: 2131
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:40 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Wed Feb 13, 2019 6:42 pm

VTORD wrote:
Just a random thought: Would there be any benefit for AI to use SJC for AI183/184? Its a much more convenient airport especially for the south bay silicon valley campuses and it's really efficient too compared to SFO.


US roads are pretty good and you can reach SFO from SJC in max 1 hour !!

But for AI, it would be equivalent to opening and maintaining a new long haul destination, with its own station manager, catering and maintenance expenses.
 
killswitch13
Posts: 76
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 10:52 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:08 pm

Lufthansa open to partnerships for tapping Indian market. Planning to add 2 more destinations.

https://www.livemint.com/companies/news/lufthansa-open-to-partnerships-for-tapping-indian-market-1550059114420.html
 
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lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 18411
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:20 pm

killswitch13 wrote:
Lufthansa open to partnerships for tapping Indian market. Planning to add 2 more destinations.

https://www.livemint.com/companies/news/lufthansa-open-to-partnerships-for-tapping-indian-market-1550059114420.html

First, note hubs of Frankfurt, Munich, and Zurich. It sounds like more than a 2 city pair expansion as I interpret the link.

The link noted a Vienna-Delhi code share, but it implies LH is shopping for a long term partner. Since AI is *A, interlining is a given. So whom are they looking to add an interlining agreement?

The reality is Indigo is the bell of the ball. I expect, besides TK, that 6E will interline and code share with QR too. Could LH be a 3rd partner? Then some Asian partners?

Lightsaber
IM messages to mods on warnings and bans will be ignored and nasty ones will result in a ban.
 
binayak
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:26 pm

LH already interlines with AI and 9W for India side connections. They can go for Vistara too.
Don't bring 6E everywhere. LH group doesn't need them at the moment.
QR -6E codeshare hasn't even been announced officially yet but here we're talking about a third partner where there's no second!
The best preparation for tomorrow is doing your best today
 
MIAFLLPBIFlyer
Posts: 375
Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2017 8:25 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:36 pm

killswitch13 wrote:
Lufthansa open to partnerships for tapping Indian market. Planning to add 2 more destinations.

https://www.livemint.com/companies/news/lufthansa-open-to-partnerships-for-tapping-indian-market-1550059114420.html


Keep in mind British Airways now partners with Vistara. BTW, how is that going for both sides thus far?
 
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lightsaber
Moderator
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:51 pm

binayak wrote:
LH already interlines with AI and 9W for India side connections. They can go for Vistara too.
Don't bring 6E everywhere. LH group doesn't need them at the moment.
QR -6E codeshare hasn't even been announced officially yet but here we're talking about a third partner where there's no second!

I think the Indian partners will be valuable. The link notes looking for interline partners. So if already interlining with AI & 9W, that implies another is coming.

So based off the link, it is time to speculate.

More partnerships will happen. If QR-6E fails to happen, that is a major strategy blunder for QR with their recently announced EU open skies and existing US open skies.

I think Indigo forgoing buying widebodies was wise (for now). But that doesn't mean they should fail to lay the groundwork. Partnering is the start. Recall DXB started as a Wayport for other airlines and then grew into EK's hub. It is time to seed the international customer base.

LH group seems to be broadcasting they need another Indian partner. Time will tell who.

Lightsaber
IM messages to mods on warnings and bans will be ignored and nasty ones will result in a ban.
 
devmapper
Posts: 219
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:15 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:27 pm

binayak wrote:
VTORD wrote:

binayak wrote:
With Mr Lohani back , I think we can expect AI to better utilize its 77Ws and 788s .
Some suggestions (for better utilization of 777s) can be:

77W :
DEL-JFK-DEL (7w)
DEL-ORD-DEL(7w)
DEL-SFO-DEL(9w)
DEL-LHR-DEL(Replace one of the frequencies with a 77W because no more slots at LHR so that's how you can build capacity)
BOM-LHR-BOM (Replace 788 with 77W)
BOM-EWR-BOM (7w)
BOM-JFK-BOM (make this 7w from 3w)
DEL-IAD-DEL (make this 7w from 3w)
DEL-PHL-DEL ( AI can add this route with a 3w flight as there's a good number of Indians living in Pennsylvania and there are very
few one stop options for PHL- India )

77Ls :
Since most of the US - DEL routes can be done with 77W , AI can base the 77Ls out of BOM and have the following:
BOM - ORD- BOM (6w)
That leaves 1 77L and utilizes all the 15 77Ws . The 1 77L can be used as a spare aircraft . The good thing about basing them out of BOM is that AI won't have to run those low density LRs on DEL-BOM routes .

That's some good work mate!! Though I am not sure IAD going 7w. Me thinks it's mostly diplomatic traffic likely so keep it 3w and open up may be LAX with a TPAC routing?

Just a random thought: Would there be any benefit for AI to use SJC for AI183/184? Its a much more convenient airport especially for the south bay silicon valley campuses and it's really efficient too compared to SFO.


Given the Indian diaspora at IAD, 7w in winter and 3-4w rest of the year can also be an option.
LAX can sustain a non stop to India but here we need to consider that first, the aircraft we're talking about is a 77W and second, this is Air India!
Unless AI has a competitive product (hard product), they should go for either * hubs or high VFR concentrated areas in the US only.
AI 183/184 timing wise isn't suited for business travel IMO. This one might be to capture more VFR crowd which is more towards SFO than SJC. Let's see whether this frequency continues after UA joins the game.


[Edit: Added 77W range capability on DOH-LAX)
Typically 77Ws can comfortably make DEL-LAX/SFO work the way AI normally flies them (TPAC outbound, TATL inbound). QR flies the 77W DOH-LAX non-stop without any problems. The problem is that AI's 77Ws have a weight issue, plus AI is a little bit more conservative with respect to the range. Most airlines have applied Boeing's PIPs to improve the long range performance, but this is AI we're talking about, so some bureaucrat has to sign off before that can happen. Keep in mind AI did request to convert the last 6 788s to 789s, which would have been capable enough to fly DEL-SFO/LAX, but was rejected by the board. So now it has too many medium haul frames and not enough long haul.

With respect to VFR traffic, LAX (and Southern California in general) is a much larger diaspora market and would probably have higher per capita than any of BOS/PHL/DTW/DFW/IAH/MIA/ATL or other such fantasy destinations. SFO shows us that even with its dated product AI can command a small premium in Y. I'm not sure why LAX wouldn't be a more attractive point of call than most of the other airports in NA.
 
vadodara
Posts: 1050
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:45 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:36 pm

lightsaber wrote:
killswitch13 wrote:
Lufthansa open to partnerships for tapping Indian market. Planning to add 2 more destinations.

https://www.livemint.com/companies/news/lufthansa-open-to-partnerships-for-tapping-indian-market-1550059114420.html

First, note hubs of Frankfurt, Munich, and Zurich. It sounds like more than a 2 city pair expansion as I interpret the link.

The link noted a Vienna-Delhi code share, but it implies LH is shopping for a long term partner. Since AI is *A, interlining is a given. So whom are they looking to add an interlining agreement?

The reality is Indigo is the bell of the ball. I expect, besides TK, that 6E will interline and code share with QR too. Could LH be a 3rd partner? Then some Asian partners?

Lightsaber


As others have noted, only Vistara makes sense.

They may also be making play to expand from MUC and ZRH to cities such as BLRZ.
 
subramak1
Posts: 163
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2016 10:21 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:56 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
avier wrote:
^ So their plans for having seasoned professionals is not happening. They could have thought of some NRI (on the likes of Vinay Dubey, Rono Dutta) from the aviation sector in the US.


They appointed Daggubati Purandeswari as BoD, no one else is better qualified.

I think an AI employee has to be an Indian citizen. Has to be an Indian Administrative Service member to beg(quietly) from other public sector units like oil companies/Airports and PSBs.

If they appoint someone from the private sector, immediately oil companies, airports, and banks cut off their credit lines. Only IxS fraternity keeps AI running.


Not every one on the board needs to be from the same industry. What AI board needs is someone strong to question/critic decisions made by the airline. From what I have heard ( irrespective of her family ties/background/ideology), this lady is an efficient administrator and hope she adds value.

Subu
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 7297
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Wed Feb 13, 2019 9:00 pm

devmapper wrote:

The problem is that AI's 77Ws have a weight issue, plus AI is a little bit more conservative with respect to the range. Most airlines have applied Boeing's PIPs to improve the long range performance, but this is AI we're talking about, so some bureaucrat has to sign off before that can happen.

Keep in mind AI did request to convert the last 6 788s to 789s, which would have been capable enough to fly DEL-SFO/LAX, but was rejected by the board. So now it has too many medium haul frames and not enough long haul.

With respect to VFR traffic,LAX (and Southern California in general) is a much larger diaspora market[/url] and would probably have higher per capita than any of BOS/PHL/DTW/DFW/IAH/MIA/ATL or other such fantasy destinations. SFO shows us that even with its dated product AI can command a small premium in Y. I'm not sure why LAX wouldn't be a more attractive point of call than most of the other airports in NA.


MTOW upgrade is just paperwork.

Chinese carriers are trashing LAX-DEL/BOM yields. So it has to be a repeat miracle after SFO.

Boeing offered 789, AI Engineering rejected, because they did’t want another batch of lemons and prepaid blame card.

MAX was also offered, glad GoI needed 77Ws, otherwise av pundits would be all over AI if they lost a hull, like Lion air.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
voxkel
Posts: 142
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 9:17 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Wed Feb 13, 2019 9:24 pm

binayak wrote:
With Mr Lohani back , I think we can expect AI to better utilize its 77Ws and 788s .
Some suggestions (for better utilization of 777s) can be:

77W :
DEL-JFK-DEL (7w)
DEL-ORD-DEL(7w)
DEL-SFO-DEL(9w)
DEL-LHR-DEL(Replace one of the frequencies with a 77W because no more slots at LHR so that's how you can build capacity)
BOM-LHR-BOM (Replace 788 with 77W)
BOM-EWR-BOM (7w)
BOM-JFK-BOM (make this 7w from 3w)
DEL-IAD-DEL (make this 7w from 3w)
DEL-PHL-DEL ( AI can add this route with a 3w flight as there's a good number of Indians living in Pennsylvania and there are very
few one stop options for PHL- India )

77Ls :
Since most of the US - DEL routes can be done with 77W , AI can base the 77Ls out of BOM and have the following:
BOM - ORD- BOM (6w)
That leaves 1 77L and utilizes all the 15 77Ws . The 1 77L can be used as a spare aircraft . The good thing about basing them out of BOM is that AI won't have to run those low density LRs on DEL-BOM routes .


My suggestions (will base 77L at BOM, 77W at DEL):

77L:
One of BOM-JFK-BOM or BOM-EWR-BOM Daily
BOM-ORD-BOM 3/wk

BOM-JFK should be a daily IMO, AI can base 3x77L at BOM for these two flights

77W:
DEL-JFK-DEL Daily
DEL-LHR-DEL AI111/112 Daily
DEL-SYD-DEL Daily
DEL-SFO-DEL Daily (note not 9/wk since UA starting route)
DEL-ORD-DEL Daily
DEL-IAD-DEL 3/wk
DEL-EWR-DEL Daily

(AI should not be simultaneously operating BOM-EWR and BOM-JFK IMO. AI used to do well on BOM-EWR but this flight has become extremely low-yielding as they are now competing with UA for premium traffic, and their own BOM-JFK flight. Flying from DEL-EWR may still compete with UA, but at least UA still operates 77E and DEL is AI hub with connections to places like AMD/HYD which have recently become very difficult via BOM.)

FWIW DEL-SFO is shorter than any BOM-USA, so 77W should be able to take over that route.
 
devmapper
Posts: 219
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:15 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:26 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
MTOW upgrade is just paperwork.

Which AI still hasn't completed, especially since it has been flying the 77W to SFO every so often.
dtw2hyd wrote:
Chinese carriers are trashing LAX-DEL/BOM yields. So it has to be a repeat miracle after SFO.

There is one flight on CA from LAX that allows connections to BOM/DEL. Unless you include CX. I fly CX to CCU, there have been times I've debated taking a connecting flight to SFO to fly AI because CX Y fares were higher than the combined fares.
dtw2hyd wrote:
Boeing offered 789, AI Engineering rejected, because they did’t want another batch of lemons and prepaid blame card.

789 pipeline is pretty loaded, I don't think AI would have ended up with early builds.
voxkel wrote:
FWIW DEL-SFO is shorter than any BOM-USA, so 77W should be able to take over that route.

DEL-SFO and BOM-SFO TPAC routing do not follow great circle routes, they have to route around the Himalayas. Consequently DEL-SFO TPAC is not significantly longer than BOM-SFO. This would be the approximate route (in reverse) that AI would fly DEL/BOM-SFO.
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 1112
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:32 pm

devmapper wrote:
binayak wrote:
VTORD wrote:


That's some good work mate!! Though I am not sure IAD going 7w. Me thinks it's mostly diplomatic traffic likely so keep it 3w and open up may be LAX with a TPAC routing?

Just a random thought: Would there be any benefit for AI to use SJC for AI183/184? Its a much more convenient airport especially for the south bay silicon valley campuses and it's really efficient too compared to SFO.


Given the Indian diaspora at IAD, 7w in winter and 3-4w rest of the year can also be an option.
LAX can sustain a non stop to India but here we need to consider that first, the aircraft we're talking about is a 77W and second, this is Air India!
Unless AI has a competitive product (hard product), they should go for either * hubs or high VFR concentrated areas in the US only.
AI 183/184 timing wise isn't suited for business travel IMO. This one might be to capture more VFR crowd which is more towards SFO than SJC. Let's see whether this frequency continues after UA joins the game.


[Edit: Added 77W range capability on DOH-LAX)
Typically 77Ws can comfortably make DEL-LAX/SFO work the way AI normally flies them (TPAC outbound, TATL inbound). QR flies the 77W DOH-LAX non-stop without any problems. The problem is that AI's 77Ws have a weight issue, plus AI is a little bit more conservative with respect to the range. Most airlines have applied Boeing's PIPs to improve the long range performance, but this is AI we're talking about, so some bureaucrat has to sign off before that can happen. Keep in mind AI did request to convert the last 6 788s to 789s, which would have been capable enough to fly DEL-SFO/LAX, but was rejected by the board. So now it has too many medium haul frames and not enough long haul.

With respect to VFR traffic, LAX (and Southern California in general) is a much larger diaspora market and would probably have higher per capita than any of BOS/PHL/DTW/DFW/IAH/MIA/ATL or other such fantasy destinations. SFO shows us that even with its dated product AI can command a small premium in Y. I'm not sure why LAX wouldn't be a more attractive point of call than most of the other airports in NA.


I would go with IAH (star hub and in Texas which has had a ton of recent Indian immigrants). The issue with LAX is that there hasn't been too much growth with new immigrants. LA is filled with Indians who have been there for ever. Not really the AI lover crowd. Also LA is so spread out. Some from the Valley or OC might prefer using their local airport to then connect to an international flight.
 
devmapper
Posts: 219
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:15 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:57 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
I would go with IAH (star hub and in Texas which has had a ton of recent Indian immigrants). The issue with LAX is that there hasn't been too much growth with new immigrants. LA is filled with Indians who have been there for ever. Not really the AI lover crowd. Also LA is so spread out. Some from the Valley or OC might prefer using their local airport to then connect to an international flight.


You're partially correct, looking at the last census estimates for 2017 https://factfinder.census.gov/faces/tableservices/jsf/pages/productview.xhtml?pid=ACS_17_1YR_B05006&prodType=table, it appears DFW area has a larger Indian diaspora than LAX.

The Texas airports (DFW and IAH) suffer due to the length of the route. Neither TPAC nor TATL work, both are close to 9000 nautical miles great circle. The only aircraft that could make this work reliably is the 77L. Until AI can switch the DEL-SFO flights to 77W year-round, that is not happening.

Also, both flights would overfly ORD. Ideally UA would codeshare on AI's flights out of ORD, but c'est la vie.
 
vadodara
Posts: 1050
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:45 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:02 am

CaliguyNYC wrote:
devmapper wrote:
binayak wrote:

Given the Indian diaspora at IAD, 7w in winter and 3-4w rest of the year can also be an option.
LAX can sustain a non stop to India but here we need to consider that first, the aircraft we're talking about is a 77W and second, this is Air India!
Unless AI has a competitive product (hard product), they should go for either * hubs or high VFR concentrated areas in the US only.
AI 183/184 timing wise isn't suited for business travel IMO. This one might be to capture more VFR crowd which is more towards SFO than SJC. Let's see whether this frequency continues after UA joins the game.


[Edit: Added 77W range capability on DOH-LAX)
Typically 77Ws can comfortably make DEL-LAX/SFO work the way AI normally flies them (TPAC outbound, TATL inbound). QR flies the 77W DOH-LAX non-stop without any problems. The problem is that AI's 77Ws have a weight issue, plus AI is a little bit more conservative with respect to the range. Most airlines have applied Boeing's PIPs to improve the long range performance, but this is AI we're talking about, so some bureaucrat has to sign off before that can happen. Keep in mind AI did request to convert the last 6 788s to 789s, which would have been capable enough to fly DEL-SFO/LAX, but was rejected by the board. So now it has too many medium haul frames and not enough long haul.

With respect to VFR traffic, LAX (and Southern California in general) is a much larger diaspora market and would probably have higher per capita than any of BOS/PHL/DTW/DFW/IAH/MIA/ATL or other such fantasy destinations. SFO shows us that even with its dated product AI can command a small premium in Y. I'm not sure why LAX wouldn't be a more attractive point of call than most of the other airports in NA.


I would go with IAH (star hub and in Texas which has had a ton of recent Indian immigrants). The issue with LAX is that there hasn't been too much growth with new immigrants. LA is filled with Indians who have been there for ever. Not really the AI lover crowd. Also LA is so spread out. Some from the Valley or OC might prefer using their local airport to then connect to an international flight.



IAH also happens to have a regular ‘Oil’ traffic. So the ME3 are and will be in force.

Unless AI can get some benefits as part of Star Alliance, it may be a long road.
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 7297
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:10 am

devmapper wrote:
...
Which AI still hasn't completed, especially since it has been flying the 77W to SFO every so often.
...
789 pipeline is pretty loaded, I don't think AI would have ended up with early builds


Paperwork includes a check to GE. AI is not swimming in cash.

787 itself is not an issue, 787s owned by AI + Keskar + Indian Press + Bloggers + Competitors' PR + Boeing PR is a huge problem.

If AI grounds an early build GEnX for engine PIP all hell breaks loose, worst run airline, AOGs lose money.

There are dozens of RR 787s parked 7 years after EIS some for more than a year by well-run airlines, best management decision.

Overweight LN#19 is perfectly acceptable, but AI's LN# 25 overweight claim is a scam.

If AI 787 winglet touches a building, the sky falls. Ethiopian 787 takes our entire lamp post, no big deal.

If early build AI GEnX has a bad valve- AI's bad MX practices, 200 xANA Trents need repairs, best MX in the world.

If an ANA 787 loses both engines on landing, no big deal

Do you see a pattern here?
 
fortunerunnner
Posts: 72
Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2010 4:31 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:13 am

anshabhi wrote:

US roads are pretty good and you can reach SFO from SJC in max 1 hour !!

But for AI, it would be equivalent to opening and maintaining a new long haul destination, with its own station manager, catering and maintenance expenses.


While I agree that opening SJC is not feasible due to the reasons you site, being from bay area I can assure you that you cannot reach SFO from SJC in 1 hour if you are trying to do that during commute hours. Many times it takes that long to reach Mountain View/Palo Alto from SJC let alone SFO which is 3 times the distance.
 
pune
Posts: 122
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:18 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:26 am

killswitch13 wrote:
Lufthansa open to partnerships for tapping Indian market. Planning to add 2 more destinations.

https://www.livemint.com/companies/news/lufthansa-open-to-partnerships-for-tapping-indian-market-1550059114420.html


Is there possibility of seeing lufthansa with PNQ again ? I never came to know why PNQ-Frankfurt route was discontinued, was it not enough people, time constraints, what ?
 
VTORD
Posts: 586
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:45 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Thu Feb 14, 2019 2:22 am

fortunerunnner wrote:
anshabhi wrote:

US roads are pretty good and you can reach SFO from SJC in max 1 hour !!

But for AI, it would be equivalent to opening and maintaining a new long haul destination, with its own station manager, catering and maintenance expenses.


While I agree that opening SJC is not feasible due to the reasons you site, being from bay area I can assure you that you cannot reach SFO from SJC in 1 hour if you are trying to do that during commute hours. Many times it takes that long to reach Mountain View/Palo Alto from SJC let alone SFO which is 3 times the distance.

:checkmark: Some times it takes 15 minutes to just reach the terminal from the exit on 101
The second reason makes sense, hadn't thought of that...

vadodara wrote:

As others have noted, only Vistara makes sense.
They may also be making play to expand from MUC and ZRH to cities such as BLRZ.

Given the cooperation between LH and SQ and the fact that SQ has a stake in Vistara, yes that is the viable option. The problem with Vistara is they are of no use to LH at BOM. It would have to be a DEL-centric arrangement.

binayak wrote:
AI 183/184 timing wise isn't suited for business travel IMO. This one might be to capture more VFR crowd which is more towards SFO than SJC. Let's see whether this frequency continues after UA joins the game.

While I agree with you on the timing part, I must disagree with the comment about the VFR convenience. SJC is massively convenient in terms of travel time for a significant portion of the Bay Area population.
 
User avatar
trinidadeG
Posts: 84
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:43 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Thu Feb 14, 2019 3:44 am

binayak wrote:
That leaves 1 77L and utilizes all the 15 77Ws . The 1 77L can be used as a spare aircraft.

But AI does not have 15 77Ws.

Two 77Ws are back in the US for retro-fitting as VIP transports (VT-ALV and VT-ALW).
 
binayak
Posts: 979
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 2:00 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Thu Feb 14, 2019 4:31 am

trinidadeG wrote:
binayak wrote:
That leaves 1 77L and utilizes all the 15 77Ws . The 1 77L can be used as a spare aircraft.

But AI does not have 15 77Ws.

Two 77Ws are back in the US for retro-fitting as VIP transports (VT-ALV and VT-ALW).


Oh. My bad. I thought those two are not included in the 15 77Ws shown in the fleet.
The best preparation for tomorrow is doing your best today
 
fortunerunnner
Posts: 72
Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2010 4:31 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Thu Feb 14, 2019 4:44 am

pune wrote:
killswitch13 wrote:
Lufthansa open to partnerships for tapping Indian market. Planning to add 2 more destinations.

https://www.livemint.com/companies/news/lufthansa-open-to-partnerships-for-tapping-indian-market-1550059114420.html


Is there possibility of seeing lufthansa with PNQ again ? I never came to know why PNQ-Frankfurt route was discontinued, was it not enough people, time constraints, what ?


PNQ was discontinued because PrivatAir which operated the aircraft went belly up. PNQ cannot handle widebodies due to runway and apron constraints and LH does not have a suitable partner or aircraft to resume PNQ. As far as I know, the flight was always successful and never an issue from financial perspective. LH tried using their own metal but it did not have long haul J product and hence it was quickly withdrawn. If PNQ ever gets the runway expansion and can handle widebodies, LH will resume the flight in an instance. Otherwise we punekars have to wait until Purandar airport is built (if ever).
 
pune
Posts: 122
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:18 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Thu Feb 14, 2019 5:40 am

fortunerunnner wrote:
pune wrote:
killswitch13 wrote:
Lufthansa open to partnerships for tapping Indian market. Planning to add 2 more destinations.

https://www.livemint.com/companies/news/lufthansa-open-to-partnerships-for-tapping-indian-market-1550059114420.html


Is there possibility of seeing lufthansa with PNQ again ? I never came to know why PNQ-Frankfurt route was discontinued, was it not enough people, time constraints, what ?


PNQ was discontinued because PrivatAir which operated the aircraft went belly up. PNQ cannot handle widebodies due to runway and apron constraints and LH does not have a suitable partner or aircraft to resume PNQ. As far as I know, the flight was always successful and never an issue from financial perspective. LH tried using their own metal but it did not have long haul J product and hence it was quickly withdrawn. If PNQ ever gets the runway expansion and can handle widebodies, LH will resume the flight in an instance. Otherwise we punekars have to wait until Purandar airport is built (if ever).


There are plans to have a bigger terminal. Recently a newer apron was inaugurated at PNQ there is supposed to be one more terminal and associated jet bridges and all (many a times buses have to be used which makes for more time for pax loading and unloading)

https://www.hindustantimes.com/pune-new ... EG9hN.html

I do hope there is work on enhancing runaway but that depends on negotiations between Pune Airport and IAF
 
User avatar
unrave
Posts: 2682
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:37 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Thu Feb 14, 2019 6:18 am

IndiGo to recruit 100 pilots (captains) from abroad to tide over the shortage
17April2019: RIP Jet Airways
 
anshabhi
Posts: 2131
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:40 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:20 am

unrave wrote:
IndiGo to recruit 100 pilots (captains) from abroad to tide over the shortage


Somewhere between getting its own pilots hunted, to hunting pilots for its own, Indigo grew up.
 
pune
Posts: 122
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:18 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Thu Feb 14, 2019 8:06 am

anshabhi wrote:
unrave wrote:
IndiGo to recruit 100 pilots (captains) from abroad to tide over the shortage


Somewhere between getting its own pilots hunted, to hunting pilots for its own, Indigo grew up.


They need to start their own academy and have recruits sign up for 3-5 years with significant penalties and payback if they break the contract.
 
User avatar
trinidadeG
Posts: 84
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:43 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Thu Feb 14, 2019 8:54 am

pune wrote:
anshabhi wrote:
unrave wrote:
IndiGo to recruit 100 pilots (captains) from abroad to tide over the shortage


Somewhere between getting its own pilots hunted, to hunting pilots for its own, Indigo grew up.


They need to start their own academy and have recruits sign up for 3-5 years with significant penalties and payback if they break the contract.

They already have a big cadet scheme going, but that only gives you junior first officers, many of whom will certainly be promoted to captains sometime in the future.

But 6E's immediate need is captains with sufficient 'hours'. Those will have to be sourced from outside the country, it seems.
 
pune
Posts: 122
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:18 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Thu Feb 14, 2019 8:54 am

fortunerunnner wrote:

snipped -

PNQ was discontinued because PrivatAir which operated the aircraft went belly up. PNQ cannot handle widebodies due to runway and apron constraints and LH does not have a suitable partner or aircraft to resume PNQ. As far as I know, the flight was always successful and never an issue from financial perspective. LH tried using their own metal but it did not have long haul J product and hence it was quickly withdrawn. If PNQ ever gets the runway expansion and can handle widebodies, LH will resume the flight in an instance. Otherwise we punekars have to wait until Purandar airport is built (if ever).


umm... there was new apron inaugurated at PNQ Lehagaon airport https://www.hindustantimes.com/pune-new ... EG9hN.html and there is/was also this -

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cit ... 631470.cms
 
User avatar
unrave
Posts: 2682
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:37 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:27 am

Apron space is not the issue with PNQ, it is the runway length that is too short to accommodate widebody operations. Only Purandhar airport can solve the problem
17April2019: RIP Jet Airways
 
BrooklyBOMgal
Posts: 75
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 7:16 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:44 am

After 49 cancellations on February 13, IndiGo to curtail 30 flights a day until March-end
https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/busin ... 32721.html

My question .... didn't they see it coming? I am sure you don't wake up one fine day and suddenly realize you don't have pilots to fly your planes.
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 7297
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:47 am

Bangalore is the only place LH may need 6E partnership. With 6E holding 110+ slots and both 9W/AI close to 30+ slots and the UK even less, filling a 748i is going to difficult. Even if 100 premium seats are O&D, it needs a good feed.

PS: Numbers are approximate
 
BrooklyBOMgal
Posts: 75
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 7:16 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:51 am

anshabhi wrote:
unrave wrote:
AI has gobbled up ~$11bn of taxpayer funds since 2012 with nothing to show for it.


Yeah I agree its inefficient, but they do fly almost 20 million pax every year. Remove the debt burden, which is a legacy issue, and AI is a pretty attractive airline even in modern times.


AI is a good airline. The only problem is when something goes wrong and the airline happens to be AI, then it gets roasted. If an passenger gets a broken fork on any other airline all that he would do is call the FA and say "excuse me, can I get another fork? my fork is broken." But if its on AI he will create a scene and post a photo of the broken fork on social media and the armchair experts will give their valued opinion on AI.
 
User avatar
unrave
Posts: 2682
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:37 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:02 pm

BrooklyBOMgal wrote:
AI is a good airline

By most definitions of good, it isn't.
17April2019: RIP Jet Airways
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