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unrave
Posts: 2681
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:37 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:05 pm

Meanwhile Jet Airways has posted a loss of Rs. 587.7 crore for this quarter.
17April2019: RIP Jet Airways
 
sibibom
Posts: 445
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2016 7:04 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:20 pm

Air India today is probably the second best product in Indian skies after Vistara. I love them for their comfortable and spacious seats. Seat pitch of minimum 32inches, when industry is at 28-29 claiming to be 30 inches. 9abreast on 777 in economy. Plus their food is better than Jet (which is atrocious, I can eat anything when hungry, but I have skipped meals on Jet especially so-called breakfast).

And besides legacy issue of debt and being overstaffed in certain departments, this is making them uncompetitive in the market. For all these extra perks they barely charge a premium. The good place to start is cut down on this excesses. Densify the cabin and they can earn more out of the existing fleet.
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 7290
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Thu Feb 14, 2019 1:19 pm

BrooklyBOMgal wrote:
... But if its on AI he will create a scene and post a photo of the broken fork on social media and the armchair experts will give their valued opinion on AI.


You will enjoy this video. Also, shows how some passengers trash AI equipment.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suJH9JZhpbc
 
JOYA380B747
Posts: 778
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 11:31 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Thu Feb 14, 2019 3:52 pm

pune wrote:
fortunerunnner wrote:
pune wrote:

I do hope there is work on enhancing runaway but that depends on negotiations between Pune Airport and IAF


unrave wrote:
Apron space is not the issue with PNQ, it is the runway length that is too short to accommodate widebody operations. Only Purandhar airport can solve the problem



And why is this an issue for the IAF if I may ask?

If you check satellite images Of PNQ area, the bulk of land beyond the eastern perimeter of the airbase is completely empty (maybe privately owned but it is empty). I have crossed those areas on vehicle myself, and there are literally no houses for over 2 kilometres beyond the eastern end of the runway. How hard is it for State or Centre or MoD or IAF to purchase some more land and extend?

PNQ can sustain multiple widebody ops from 9W, AI, LH, ME3 and SQ to say the least, to the point that it can actually eat away a huge chunk of BOM traffic.
India's biggest loss w.r.t global aviation (so far) - Being an Australasia-Europe stopover.
 
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unrave
Posts: 2681
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:37 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Thu Feb 14, 2019 4:01 pm

JOYA380B747 wrote:
PNQ can sustain multiple widebody ops from 9W, AI, LH, ME3 and SQ to say the least, to the point that it can actually eat away a huge chunk of BOM traffic.

The comment was reasonable until this. No, developing PNQ will have no effect on traffic at BOM
17April2019: RIP Jet Airways
 
avier
Posts: 920
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:38 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Thu Feb 14, 2019 4:28 pm

I always felt IAF should have moved out of PNQ and should have instead been given the new Purandar land as their new IAF airstrip. PNQ being exapanded and used solely for commercial ops. Maybe logistically, a lot of IAF offices may have to be moved, but overall it would benefit the city greatly.

I don't see the need for airforce planes flying in and around close to city centres like at PNQ or even HAL- Bengaluru. The recent accident at HAL was scary in the sense its located right in the heart of Bengaluru and if the plane went off the airport boundary, things could have been far worst.
 
JOYA380B747
Posts: 778
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 11:31 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Thu Feb 14, 2019 5:50 pm

unrave wrote:
JOYA380B747 wrote:
PNQ can sustain multiple widebody ops from 9W, AI, LH, ME3 and SQ to say the least, to the point that it can actually eat away a huge chunk of BOM traffic.

The comment was reasonable until this. No, developing PNQ will have no effect on traffic at BOM


Yes thats true, a bucket under a running tap is always going to get full regardless of how much you take away from it.
India's biggest loss w.r.t global aviation (so far) - Being an Australasia-Europe stopover.
 
StormRider
Posts: 97
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:12 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Thu Feb 14, 2019 6:37 pm

unrave wrote:
JOYA380B747 wrote:
PNQ can sustain multiple widebody ops from 9W, AI, LH, ME3 and SQ to say the least, to the point that it can actually eat away a huge chunk of BOM traffic.

The comment was reasonable until this. No, developing PNQ will have no effect on traffic at BOM


While BOM can and will continue to be huge traffic-wise, there is no doubt a fairly large chunk of international traffic out of BOM originates in Pune/PCMC area.(I know this is anecdotal but I wonder if there are stats lying around as to BOM pax who actually drive there instead of flying out of PNQ)

This is of course slowly changing due to SQ/LH/EY flights out of PNQ and also due to people willing to connect from DEL. Navi Mumbai airport will again have big effect on PNQ/BOM international travellers.
 
fortunerunnner
Posts: 72
Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2010 4:31 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Thu Feb 14, 2019 6:48 pm

avier wrote:
I always felt IAF should have moved out of PNQ and should have instead been given the new Purandar land as their new IAF airstrip. PNQ being exapanded and used solely for commercial ops. Maybe logistically, a lot of IAF offices may have to be moved, but overall it would benefit the city greatly.

I don't see the need for airforce planes flying in and around close to city centres like at PNQ or even HAL- Bengaluru. The recent accident at HAL was scary in the sense its located right in the heart of Bengaluru and if the plane went off the airport boundary, things could have been far worst.


I completely agree with this, in fact I always wondered why IAF insists on maintaining airbases in middle of cities when in fact they would be better off having them outside the cities. Current PNQ is better positioned to handle civilian traffic as its very close to the city and IAF owns lot of real estate around which could be sold to private parties and made profit out of. There is enough land there to build a decent size terminal as well where current IAF hangers are. IAF should relocate to Purandar or wherever new airport is to be built where they can maintain secrecy and could have complete control over their activities which would be beneficial in long run.
 
fortunerunnner
Posts: 72
Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2010 4:31 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Thu Feb 14, 2019 6:55 pm

StormRider wrote:
While BOM can and will continue to be huge traffic-wise, there is no doubt a fairly large chunk of international traffic out of BOM originates in Pune/PCMC area.(I know this is anecdotal but I wonder if there are stats lying around as to BOM pax who actually drive there instead of flying out of PNQ)

This is of course slowly changing due to SQ/LH/EY flights out of PNQ and also due to people willing to connect from DEL. Navi Mumbai airport will again have big effect on PNQ/BOM international travellers.


Again anecdotal evidence but try to travel by road to Pune from BOM after arriving at middle of night. You can easily spot 50-60+ cars from KK travels doing airport runs between Pune and BOM. I'm pretty sure significant chunk of BOM traffic comes from Pune including me and my family who make at least one yearly trip from US. I agree, having newer and modern PNQ with better international connectivity will not dent BOM's significance as BOM on its own is a powerhouse; it does not mean insignificant number of travelers who use BOM are from Pune.
 
yashk
Posts: 89
Joined: Thu May 12, 2016 2:45 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Thu Feb 14, 2019 8:20 pm

voxkel wrote:
binayak wrote:
With Mr Lohani back , I think we can expect AI to better utilize its 77Ws and 788s .
Some suggestions (for better utilization of 777s) can be:

77W :
DEL-JFK-DEL (7w)
DEL-ORD-DEL(7w)
DEL-SFO-DEL(9w)
DEL-LHR-DEL(Replace one of the frequencies with a 77W because no more slots at LHR so that's how you can build capacity)
BOM-LHR-BOM (Replace 788 with 77W)
BOM-EWR-BOM (7w)
BOM-JFK-BOM (make this 7w from 3w)
DEL-IAD-DEL (make this 7w from 3w)
DEL-PHL-DEL ( AI can add this route with a 3w flight as there's a good number of Indians living in Pennsylvania and there are very
few one stop options for PHL- India )

77Ls :
Since most of the US - DEL routes can be done with 77W , AI can base the 77Ls out of BOM and have the following:
BOM - ORD- BOM (6w)
That leaves 1 77L and utilizes all the 15 77Ws . The 1 77L can be used as a spare aircraft . The good thing about basing them out of BOM is that AI won't have to run those low density LRs on DEL-BOM routes .


My suggestions (will base 77L at BOM, 77W at DEL):

77L:
One of BOM-JFK-BOM or BOM-EWR-BOM Daily
BOM-ORD-BOM 3/wk

BOM-JFK should be a daily IMO, AI can base 3x77L at BOM for these two flights

77W:
DEL-JFK-DEL Daily
DEL-LHR-DEL AI111/112 Daily
DEL-SYD-DEL Daily
DEL-SFO-DEL Daily (note not 9/wk since UA starting route)
DEL-ORD-DEL Daily
DEL-IAD-DEL 3/wk
DEL-EWR-DEL Daily

(AI should not be simultaneously operating BOM-EWR and BOM-JFK IMO. AI used to do well on BOM-EWR but this flight has become extremely low-yielding as they are now competing with UA for premium traffic, and their own BOM-JFK flight. Flying from DEL-EWR may still compete with UA, but at least UA still operates 77E and DEL is AI hub with connections to places like AMD/HYD which have recently become very difficult via BOM.)

FWIW DEL-SFO is shorter than any BOM-USA, so 77W should be able to take over that route.


I am quite bored so I thought let me give this a try too! AI can barely manage 5/wk to SYD on a 788, putting a 77W would be a waste since it is better to use the plane's range on the US non stops. Out of 16 777s, I would put 14 in use and 1 spare each at DEL and BOM.

BOM - EWR Daily - 2 77Ws
BOM - JFK 3/wk - 1 77W
DEL - JFK Daily - 2 77Ws
DEL - ORD 14/wk - 3 77Ws
DEL - SFO 10/wk - 3 77Ws
DEL - IAD Daily - 1.5 77L
DEL - EWR Daily - 1.5 77L (day time departure from DEL)

After UA starts DEL-SFO, ORD will be the only area where AI has a monopoly on non stop routes (IAD as well) maybe thats a reason why AI wants to expand DEL-ORD.

Phase 2:
If AI survives/ with debt restructuring if things improve/ privatization, newer aircraft such as the A359/K can be procured. AI could start DEL-BOS, DEL-LAX, BOM-SFO, BOM-ORD, BOM-SYD. DEL-SYD should be double daily to connect EU destinations both way. In addition, AI could acquire highest MTOW A321 with 16-20 lie flat seats and operate daily (in place of 4/wk 788) to the closer European destinations like CPH, ARN, VIE, TLV and start operations to NBO, IST, CAN, DPS etc
 
vadodara
Posts: 1050
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:45 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Fri Feb 15, 2019 4:56 am

VTORD wrote:
vadodara wrote:

As others have noted, only Vistara makes sense.
They may also be making play to expand from MUC and ZRH to cities such as BLRZ.

Given the cooperation between LH and SQ and the fact that SQ has a stake in Vistara, yes that is the viable option. The problem with Vistara is they are of no use to LH at BOM. It would have to be a DEL-centric arrangement.


Yes, for LH or its cousins, DEL is ideal to transfer traffic. Problem is the notorious fog in DEL. The other piece is not having any action in BLR open's the door for ME3 to offer 1-stop service.

Regarding BOM, umm, it is the day-before-yesterday's airport. Unless local politicians figure out to augment its capacity, best to forget Bombay.
 
BrooklyBOMgal
Posts: 75
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 7:16 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Fri Feb 15, 2019 4:57 am

https://www.zeebiz.com/india/news-indig ... iday-85968
IndiGo flight status: Flyers alert! 130 flights cancelled for Friday


I thought 6E had issued a statement saying they would be cancelling 30 flights daily. This is getting interesting by the day. I thought they were a well managed professionally run airline.
 
User avatar
unrave
Posts: 2681
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:37 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:56 am

The pilot shortage crisis appears to be much deeper than the airline is letting us know.
17April2019: RIP Jet Airways
 
binayak
Posts: 978
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 2:00 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Fri Feb 15, 2019 6:13 am

VTORD wrote:
vadodara wrote:

As others have noted, only Vistara makes sense.
They may also be making play to expand from MUC and ZRH to cities such as BLRZ.

Given the cooperation between LH and SQ and the fact that SQ has a stake in Vistara, yes that is the viable option. The problem with Vistara is they are of no use to LH at BOM. It would have to be a DEL-centric arrangement.



LH already code shares with 9W at BOM . They don't need another airline for the same task . Vistara can be for DEL connections . Indigo-LH fantasy partnership is out of question at the moment .

Off topic:
Recently from what I noticed even QR interlines with G8 and 9W for DOH-India routes . Don't know whether they too actually need another partner at the moment .
The best preparation for tomorrow is doing your best today
 
binayak
Posts: 978
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 2:00 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Fri Feb 15, 2019 6:21 am

yashk wrote:

I am quite bored so I thought let me give this a try too! AI can barely manage 5/wk to SYD on a 788, putting a 77W would be a waste since it is better to use the plane's range on the US non stops. Out of 16 777s, I would put 14 in use and 1 spare each at DEL and BOM.

BOM - EWR Daily - 2 77Ws
BOM - JFK 3/wk - 1 77W
DEL - JFK Daily - 2 77Ws
DEL - ORD 14/wk - 3 77Ws
DEL - SFO 10/wk - 3 77Ws
DEL - IAD Daily - 1.5 77L
DEL - EWR Daily - 1.5 77L (day time departure from DEL)

After UA starts DEL-SFO, ORD will be the only area where AI has a monopoly on non stop routes (IAD as well) maybe thats a reason why AI wants to expand DEL-ORD.

Phase 2:
If AI survives/ with debt restructuring if things improve/ privatization, newer aircraft such as the A359/K can be procured. AI could start DEL-BOS, DEL-LAX, BOM-SFO, BOM-ORD, BOM-SYD. DEL-SYD should be double daily to connect EU destinations both way. In addition, AI could acquire highest MTOW A321 with 16-20 lie flat seats and operate daily (in place of 4/wk 788) to the closer European destinations like CPH, ARN, VIE, TLV and start operations to NBO, IST, CAN, DPS etc


Well IMHO , AI shouldn't operate 777s and a350s together . Should either go for a359/35k only or a 777/ 789 combination for ULH .
The best preparation for tomorrow is doing your best today
 
avier
Posts: 920
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:38 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Fri Feb 15, 2019 6:52 am

BrooklyBOMgal wrote:
https://www.zeebiz.com/india/news-indigo-flight-status-flyers-alert-130-flights-cancelled-for-friday-85968
IndiGo flight status: Flyers alert! 130 flights cancelled for Friday


I thought 6E had issued a statement saying they would be cancelling 30 flights daily. This is getting interesting by the day. I thought they were a well managed professionally run airline.


Can't believe they hadn't forecasted this before. For commanders to quit , they need to serve a notice period a year before. And whatever expansion they have planned, it should have taken into account the crew availability along with their FDTL requirements. Wonder what their HR department is upto.

I also hear it's normal for some 6E cockpit crew to be doing the max. 6 sectors/day. That surely means they hit their FDTL pretty quick in the given time frame.
 
User avatar
unrave
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Fri Feb 15, 2019 7:02 am

Apparently FDTL is only part of the problem. There are also rumours that suggest the airline has resorted to capacity cuts to protect yields in a notoriously weak season
17April2019: RIP Jet Airways
 
pune
Posts: 122
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:18 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Fri Feb 15, 2019 7:10 am

fortunerunnner wrote:
I completely agree with this, in fact I always wondered why IAF insists on maintaining airbases in middle of cities when in fact they would be better off having them outside the cities. Current PNQ is better positioned to handle civilian traffic as its very close to the city and IAF owns lot of real estate around which could be sold to private parties and made profit out of. There is enough land there to build a decent size terminal as well where current IAF hangers are. IAF should relocate to Purandar or wherever new airport is to be built where they can maintain secrecy and could have complete control over their activities which would be beneficial in long run.


I *think* or guess because in war-time if you are in a war kind of situation the first thing the enemy would want to do is take off the air bases as far as possible. This has tactical as well as morale issues for the enemy. If you hit populated areas i.e. civilian areas the possibility of getting a backlash from the international community is much more. That may be one of the things of IAF may have in mind. There is also another thing which perhaps we might not be thinking about. The IAF base at Lohegaon was done in the 1950's or so I believe at which time there was all jungle. Being a Puneite when I see photos from 1950's the city has grown much more larger. So that aspect is also there.

Third point, moving an entire Airforce base is no joke. The MoD (Ministry of Defence) would have to large sums of money and time and effort involved in making sure that the new place would have all the amenities for which the Airforce would need budget. Our spending on defence like this has gone down in actual terms, if nothing else see the Rafale jets order of 36 jets instead of 126 which the Air force people say is not enough leave aside the 'price' controversy.

I would be happy if Purandar becomes a proper Airbase but do think it's a long shot. Even if we get a civilian airport there would be happy.
 
pune
Posts: 122
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:18 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Fri Feb 15, 2019 7:15 am

fortunerunnner wrote:

snipped -

Again anecdotal evidence but try to travel by road to Pune from BOM after arriving at middle of night. You can easily spot 50-60+ cars from KK travels doing airport runs between Pune and BOM. I'm pretty sure significant chunk of BOM traffic comes from Pune including me and my family who make at least one yearly trip from US. I agree, having newer and modern PNQ with better international connectivity will not dent BOM's significance as BOM on its own is a powerhouse; it does not mean insignificant number of travelers who use BOM are from Pune.


I had same experience and even had talks with drivers of Uber and Ola and many of them prefer the Pune-Mumbai Airport deal, something like INR 1500/- each way and sometimes foreigners give them the same amount in tips and what-not. This will continue unless Pune Airport has its own multiple international connections. Would make life easier for lot of people who wouldn't have to plan logistics much. There is lots of room for growth as commented by one of the other posters for sure.
 
EmoticonsAllDay
Posts: 148
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2018 2:19 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Fri Feb 15, 2019 7:20 am

yashk wrote:
voxkel wrote:
binayak wrote:
With Mr Lohani back , I think we can expect AI to better utilize its 77Ws and 788s .
Some suggestions (for better utilization of 777s) can be:

77W :
DEL-JFK-DEL (7w)
DEL-ORD-DEL(7w)
DEL-SFO-DEL(9w)
DEL-LHR-DEL(Replace one of the frequencies with a 77W because no more slots at LHR so that's how you can build capacity)
BOM-LHR-BOM (Replace 788 with 77W)
BOM-EWR-BOM (7w)
BOM-JFK-BOM (make this 7w from 3w)
DEL-IAD-DEL (make this 7w from 3w)
DEL-PHL-DEL ( AI can add this route with a 3w flight as there's a good number of Indians living in Pennsylvania and there are very
few one stop options for PHL- India )

77Ls :
Since most of the US - DEL routes can be done with 77W , AI can base the 77Ls out of BOM and have the following:
BOM - ORD- BOM (6w)
That leaves 1 77L and utilizes all the 15 77Ws . The 1 77L can be used as a spare aircraft . The good thing about basing them out of BOM is that AI won't have to run those low density LRs on DEL-BOM routes .


My suggestions (will base 77L at BOM, 77W at DEL):

77L:
One of BOM-JFK-BOM or BOM-EWR-BOM Daily
BOM-ORD-BOM 3/wk

BOM-JFK should be a daily IMO, AI can base 3x77L at BOM for these two flights

77W:
DEL-JFK-DEL Daily
DEL-LHR-DEL AI111/112 Daily
DEL-SYD-DEL Daily
DEL-SFO-DEL Daily (note not 9/wk since UA starting route)
DEL-ORD-DEL Daily
DEL-IAD-DEL 3/wk
DEL-EWR-DEL Daily

(AI should not be simultaneously operating BOM-EWR and BOM-JFK IMO. AI used to do well on BOM-EWR but this flight has become extremely low-yielding as they are now competing with UA for premium traffic, and their own BOM-JFK flight. Flying from DEL-EWR may still compete with UA, but at least UA still operates 77E and DEL is AI hub with connections to places like AMD/HYD which have recently become very difficult via BOM.)

FWIW DEL-SFO is shorter than any BOM-USA, so 77W should be able to take over that route.


I am quite bored so I thought let me give this a try too! AI can barely manage 5/wk to SYD on a 788, putting a 77W would be a waste since it is better to use the plane's range on the US non stops. Out of 16 777s, I would put 14 in use and 1 spare each at DEL and BOM.

BOM - EWR Daily - 2 77Ws
BOM - JFK 3/wk - 1 77W
DEL - JFK Daily - 2 77Ws
DEL - ORD 14/wk - 3 77Ws
DEL - SFO 10/wk - 3 77Ws
DEL - IAD Daily - 1.5 77L
DEL - EWR Daily - 1.5 77L (day time departure from DEL)

After UA starts DEL-SFO, ORD will be the only area where AI has a monopoly on non stop routes (IAD as well) maybe thats a reason why AI wants to expand DEL-ORD.

Phase 2:
If AI survives/ with debt restructuring if things improve/ privatization, newer aircraft such as the A359/K can be procured. AI could start DEL-BOS, DEL-LAX, BOM-SFO, BOM-ORD, BOM-SYD. DEL-SYD should be double daily to connect EU destinations both way. In addition, AI could acquire highest MTOW A321 with 16-20 lie flat seats and operate daily (in place of 4/wk 788) to the closer European destinations like CPH, ARN, VIE, TLV and start operations to NBO, IST, CAN, DPS etc


IMO, AI operating 777s under current circumstances is completely non-sensical maybe with the exception of the trunk routes. They should just use 788s and retire their 777 fleet if they really want to come out of their debt. They can resort to 78J if they need any capacity increase rather than A350s just because of fleet commonality. Then again, its AI and they are well known.
 
anshabhi
Posts: 2131
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:40 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Fri Feb 15, 2019 8:09 am

EmoticonsAllDay wrote:
IMO, AI operating 777s under current circumstances is completely non-sensical maybe with the exception of the trunk routes. They should just use 788s and retire their 777 fleet if they really want to come out of their debt. They can resort to 78J if they need any capacity increase rather than A350s just because of fleet commonality. Then again, its AI and they are well known.


????

Do you know that AI gets 15% of its entire revenue from US routes? Can a scrapped B777 really pay off its own debt and finance a new B78J?

vadodara wrote:

Yes, for LH or its cousins, DEL is ideal to transfer traffic. Problem is the notorious fog in DEL. The other piece is not having any action in BLR open's the door for ME3 to offer 1-stop service.


Most aircraft like or larger than A320 and pilots are CAT III B certified and fog isn't really that big of an issue ...
 
User avatar
unrave
Posts: 2681
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:37 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Fri Feb 15, 2019 8:23 am

Parked 6E aircraft idling on the tarmac at BLR
Image
Photo courtesy of a pilot with a rival airline

COO William Boulter says they have discussed with several airports in China and is confident that ops to China will be launched this year to two different cities, 14x weekly
17April2019: RIP Jet Airways
 
fortunerunnner
Posts: 72
Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2010 4:31 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Fri Feb 15, 2019 8:45 am

pune wrote:
fortunerunnner wrote:
I completely agree with this, in fact I always wondered why IAF insists on maintaining airbases in middle of cities when in fact they would be better off having them outside the cities. Current PNQ is better positioned to handle civilian traffic as its very close to the city and IAF owns lot of real estate around which could be sold to private parties and made profit out of. There is enough land there to build a decent size terminal as well where current IAF hangers are. IAF should relocate to Purandar or wherever new airport is to be built where they can maintain secrecy and could have complete control over their activities which would be beneficial in long run.


I *think* or guess because in war-time if you are in a war kind of situation the first thing the enemy would want to do is take off the air bases as far as possible. This has tactical as well as morale issues for the enemy. If you hit populated areas i.e. civilian areas the possibility of getting a backlash from the international community is much more. That may be one of the things of IAF may have in mind. There is also another thing which perhaps we might not be thinking about. The IAF base at Lohegaon was done in the 1950's or so I believe at which time there was all jungle. Being a Puneite when I see photos from 1950's the city has grown much more larger. So that aspect is also there.

Third point, moving an entire Airforce base is no joke. The MoD (Ministry of Defence) would have to large sums of money and time and effort involved in making sure that the new place would have all the amenities for which the Airforce would need budget. Our spending on defence like this has gone down in actual terms, if nothing else see the Rafale jets order of 36 jets instead of 126 which the Air force people say is not enough leave aside the 'price' controversy.

I would be happy if Purandar becomes a proper Airbase but do think it's a long shot. Even if we get a civilian airport there would be happy.


Yes, in 1950s Lohegaon was what Purandar effectively is today; nowhere close to city center. As a Punekar (born and raised there before moving to US) I think its better to move the airbase to an outskirts of the city. They can raise necessary funds and then some as the current government land under defense controls is a prime real estate; amount of money government can make (not withstanding scams and corruption) is plenty for building new airbase around Purandar. As it is, they have plans to build a civilian green field airport and all associated infrastructure which is not cheap. Government might as well use the opportunity to build a modern airbase instead which is away from population hence overall better secured.

At least in US, major airforce bases are always outside the cities and if the existing base comes within city limits due to population growth etc. (Ex - Moffett Field or Tustin) they get vacated or operations curtailed. At least in California, Tustin was completely closed and the land was sold to private developers who are now building high end housing on the once existing airfield. Moffett operations are now very limited in nature and there was even informal chatter about converting it to a civilian airport to relieve SFO which never progressed beyond outlandish proposal but may become serious proposal in next 20 years.

Current location of PNQ is perfectly situated for majority of the population, fortunately there still is ample amount of empty land available to acquire and extend the runway towards the east. They can build decent sized terminal where current IAF hangers are kind of like what we have at BOM if only defense and civilian babus can think outside the box. Imagine plight of a person from Hinjewadi, Wakad, PCMC areas trying to get to Purandar airport during commute hours, they will be better off going to Navi Mumbai instead. This was never an issue for BLR or HYD as there isn't any other major airport nearby so entire city had no choice but to use the farther locations instead when the airport was moved. In this case, half of the population of the city will have a choice between Navi Mumbai and new PNQ as they may be equidistant at least in terms of travel times and Navi Mumbai may even be quicker if the expressway tunnels are built to bypass majority of Khandala Ghat.
 
avier
Posts: 920
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:38 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Fri Feb 15, 2019 8:50 am

6E's capacity dumping technique to shoo off competitors seems to have backfired on them. Rivals have held their ground. So they seem to be suffering their own over-capacity if those rumors of reduced ops. in the lean season is true .

I believe it's hard to point out on one reason alone for this situation, but is a combination of many reasons like being speculated on here which has collectively led to this situation.
 
anshabhi
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:00 am

unrave wrote:
Parked 6E aircraft idling on the tarmac at BLR
Image
Photo courtesy of a pilot with a rival airline

COO William Boulter says they have discussed with several airports in China and is confident that ops to China will be launched this year to two different cities, 14x weekly


Never saw that many aircraft on those remote bays, next to the runway under construction.. 6E is in deep trouble it appears.

A320Neos being fixed has turned out to be a curse for IndiGo
 
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unrave
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:03 am

Globally LCCs do park capacity in the lean months. RyanAir famously parks 100+ aircraft in airports across Europe. It comes down to choosing what the airline thinks is good for the bottomline. IndiGo is still on track to grow by 25%+ this year too.
17April2019: RIP Jet Airways
 
BrooklyBOMgal
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:47 am

anshabhi wrote:
unrave wrote:
Parked 6E aircraft idling on the tarmac at BLR
Image
Photo courtesy of a pilot with a rival airline

COO William Boulter says they have discussed with several airports in China and is confident that ops to China will be launched this year to two different cities, 14x weekly


Never saw that many aircraft on those remote bays, next to the runway under construction.. 6E is in deep trouble it appears.



I think their PR is handling the situation well. And their PR is good. Wonder how many here remember the incident involving a 6E aircraft veered that off the runway, damaging some runway lights, after landing at BOM. Their PR managed it well. A sudden gust of wind.

I am still wondering why they said 30 flights every day would be cancelled in their statement. Did they mean 30 at every major airport?
Cancellations can signify a lot of things about the way the airline is run. Interesting times ahead for sure.

I am happy they didnt buy 9W.
 
avier
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:26 am

^Their PR isn't just good, but amazing! For the fact that they made everyone believe at first it was the Hailstorms in the north affecting their ops, until internal anonymous sources then confirmed there were other issues plaguing the airline.

As from the airline directly itself, they still maintain that it's the poor weather & some temporary NOTAMS as the reason for the capacity cuts.
 
BrooklyBOMgal
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:30 am

It's amazing they are planning on launching new flights (to China) and at the same time they are having a pilot shortage.
 
avier
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:54 am

^ I believe there could be an alternate theory to this whole thing, wherein they are trying to save their flight crews flying hours (per FDTL) for the later part of the year when they plan to throw in their +30% capacity along with new int'l route lanches. So they are saving up for that by cutting down capacity now in the lean season and asking their crew to take their annual break now, so their crew can be used up for the later part of the year . If this is what it is, they are indeed very smart. All this just an assumption btw.
 
anshabhi
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Fri Feb 15, 2019 12:05 pm

unrave wrote:
Globally LCCs do park capacity in the lean months. RyanAir famously parks 100+ aircraft in airports across Europe. It comes down to choosing what the airline thinks is good for the bottomline. IndiGo is still on track to grow by 25%+ this year too.


Doesn't make a lot of sense though. The general way of doing business earn during lean days and earn more during peak season.

I am interested to know do parking charges + maintenance costs (for idle aircraft) really justify such practices?
 
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unrave
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Fri Feb 15, 2019 12:11 pm

anshabhi wrote:
unrave wrote:
Globally LCCs do park capacity in the lean months. RyanAir famously parks 100+ aircraft in airports across Europe. It comes down to choosing what the airline thinks is good for the bottomline. IndiGo is still on track to grow by 25%+ this year too.


Doesn't make a lot of sense though. The general way of doing business earn during lean days and earn more during peak season.

I am interested to know do parking charges + maintenance costs (for idle aircraft) really justify such practices?


Seems to make a lot of sense for RyanAir though. They are after all the most profitable European airline. They lose money on lease rentals but they save costs everywhere else.
Note: I am no way sure that this is indeed what IndiGo is doing or that IndiGo's cost structure would allow such parking to be profitable
17April2019: RIP Jet Airways
 
BrooklyBOMgal
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Fri Feb 15, 2019 12:12 pm

unrave wrote:
anshabhi wrote:
unrave wrote:
Globally LCCs do park capacity in the lean months. RyanAir famously parks 100+ aircraft in airports across Europe. It comes down to choosing what the airline thinks is good for the bottomline. IndiGo is still on track to grow by 25%+ this year too.


Doesn't make a lot of sense though. The general way of doing business earn during lean days and earn more during peak season.

I am interested to know do parking charges + maintenance costs (for idle aircraft) really justify such practices?


Seems to make a lot of sense for RyanAir though. They are after all the most profitable European airline. They lose money on lease rentals but they save costs everywhere else.
Note: I am no way sure that this is indeed what IndiGo is doing or that IndiGo's cost structure would allow such parking to be profitable


I think its cheaper to park aircraft at European airports than Indian airports. I may be wrong.
 
binayak
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Fri Feb 15, 2019 12:14 pm

Are people here ignoring the cost of compensation for the pax whose flights were cancelled? Certainly not something any airline in the world would like to have.
The best preparation for tomorrow is doing your best today
 
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unrave
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Fri Feb 15, 2019 12:15 pm

BrooklyBOMgal wrote:
I think its cheaper to park aircraft at European airports than Indian airports. I may be wrong.

Yes, that is an important reason. RyanAir can hold many small European airports to ransom.
17April2019: RIP Jet Airways
 
BrooklyBOMgal
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Fri Feb 15, 2019 12:20 pm

binayak wrote:
Are people here ignoring the cost of compensation for the pax whose flights were cancelled? Certainly not something any airline in the world would like to have.

That should be small change for 6E after all they are loaded with cash
 
sibibom
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Fri Feb 15, 2019 12:21 pm

Pune deserves a decent Airport of its own. BOM has barely room for its own people. Since growth is not possible, and NMIA still 3 years away, you are limiting the growth potential of the city if airfares are higher than the rest of the country.

6E's pilot problems were hidden earlier by NEO saga, so it seems NEO issues are sorting out. Pilots especially Captains don't grow on a tree, that's 5-10 years of investment and lots of money. I know they are working on it for last 2-3years with subsidising pilot school for years of guaranteed service with the airline, but it will take a few more years to catch up. GoAir is growing with NEOs too, and they aren't as proactive about recruiting students to train for future, and people are jumping ships for higher pay.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:02 pm

BrooklyBOMgal wrote:
binayak wrote:
Are people here ignoring the cost of compensation for the pax whose flights were cancelled? Certainly not something any airline in the world would like to have.

That should be small change for 6E after all they are loaded with cash


6E doesn't pay compensation, check DGCA reports. Also, check replies to their really meme twieet, someone posted a picture of the 6e IRROPS refreshment.
 
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unrave
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:10 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
6E doesn't pay compensation, check DGCA reports.

Airline with lowest cancellation rate pays the lowest compensation. More news at 9.
17April2019: RIP Jet Airways
 
pune
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:21 pm

unrave wrote:
Parked 6E aircraft idling on the tarmac at BLR
Image
Photo courtesy of a pilot with a rival airline

COO William Boulter says they have discussed with several airports in China and is confident that ops to China will be launched this year to two different cities, 14x weekly


can't see the image :(
 
binayak
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:23 pm

First of all Indigo doesn't have the lowest cancellation rate .
Now comparing Indigo's compensations to pax with that of another airline which reports cash running out:

Cancellations :
Jet: 1523
 Refunds
 Rescheduling
 Hotel
accommodation.
 Compensation of Rs.
3.98 lakhs

Spicejet:
6268
 Refreshments
 Rescheduling
 Compensation of Rs.
29.61 lakhs

Indigo:
11995
 Refreshments
 Rescheduling
 Compensation of Rs.
0.32 lakhs

Spot the difference ....
Source : DGCA report Nov 2018
The best preparation for tomorrow is doing your best today
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:25 pm

sibibom wrote:
6E's pilot problems were hidden earlier by NEO saga, so it seems NEO issues are sorting out. Pilots especially Captains don't grow on a tree, that's 5-10 years of investment and lots of money. I know they are working on it for last 2-3years with subsidising pilot school for years of guaranteed service with the airline, but it will take a few more years to catch up. GoAir is growing with NEOs too, and they aren't as proactive about recruiting students to train for future, and people are jumping ships for higher pay.


Well, if you follow the bread crumbs 6E started looking for expats in May '18. There were roadshows in Dubai and Istanbul. Probably their recruitment drive was not a huge success.

It appears 6E has 300 FOs with enough hours to upgrade, but it needs training slots/training pilots to upgrade them. May not be able to find enough training/check pilots. With the failed expat recruit plan 6E probably hedged on 9W going out of business.

AI didn't shut down, SG has government support and access to cash, G8 probably has access to cash, UK/I5 are too small poach, hence 9W is their primary target. Because if 9W still in business, one-year restriction comes in to play. If it shuts down, DGCA can issue a waiver to immediately hire.

Pilots generally don't vent their grievances on public forums, but word gets around about working conditions. If the current crew is doing north of 80 hrs/month, that is a sign not to join. As I said, 6E is a low-cost version of EK. The rot starts within.
 
sibibom
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:32 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
sibibom wrote:
6E's pilot problems were hidden earlier by NEO saga, so it seems NEO issues are sorting out. Pilots especially Captains don't grow on a tree, that's 5-10 years of investment and lots of money. I know they are working on it for last 2-3years with subsidising pilot school for years of guaranteed service with the airline, but it will take a few more years to catch up. GoAir is growing with NEOs too, and they aren't as proactive about recruiting students to train for future, and people are jumping ships for higher pay.


Well, if you follow the bread crumbs 6E started looking for expats in May '18. There were roadshows in Dubai and Istanbul. Probably their recruitment drive was not a huge success.

It appears 6E has 300 FOs with enough hours to upgrade, but it needs training slots/training pilots to upgrade them. May not be able to find enough training/check pilots. With the failed expat recruit plan 6E probably hedged on 9W going out of business.

AI didn't shut down, SG has government support and access to cash, G8 probably has access to cash, UK/I5 are too small poach, hence 9W is their primary target. Because if 9W still in business, one-year restriction comes in to play. If it shuts down, DGCA can issue a waiver to immediately hire.

Pilots generally don't vent their grievances on public forums, but word gets around about working conditions. If the current crew is doing north of 80 hrs/month, that is a sign not to join. As I said, 6E is a low-cost version of EK. The rot starts within.


Jet going out of business will actually worsen the situation, cos they will need to grab slots and B737 pilots aren't exactly ready to takeover A320 without training and certifications
 
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unrave
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:34 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
Because if 9W still in business, one-year restriction comes in to play. If it shuts down, DGCA can issue a waiver to immediately hire.

Except, Jet has waived off the one year requirement to shed excess flab. What use is a 737 captain to an A320 airline
17April2019: RIP Jet Airways
 
anshabhi
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:35 pm

binayak wrote:
Are people here ignoring the cost of compensation for the pax whose flights were cancelled? Certainly not something any airline in the world would like to have.


In India you don't need to pay any compensation if the cancellation is informed atleast 3 days in advance. Even then, if you offer a suitable alternative itinerary, you don't need to pay anything at all.
IndiGo has a huge network and second option often turns out to be the more suitable one.

Once my itinerary with 4 hours layover was cancelled, and I was instead offered a same aircraft one stop flight. Everyone happy!
 
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unrave
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:39 pm

anshabhi wrote:

In India you don't need to pay any compensation if the cancellation is informed atleast 3 days in advance. Even then, if you offer a suitable alternative itinerary, you don't need to pay anything at all.
IndiGo has a huge network and second option often turns out to be the more suitable one.

Once my itinerary with 4 hours layover was cancelled, and I was instead offered a same aircraft one stop flight. Everyone happy!

This hopefully clears the big mystery of mismatch between IndiGo's cancellation and compensation. INDIAN laws are different from AMERIKAN laws
17April2019: RIP Jet Airways
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:40 pm

sibibom wrote:
Jet going out of business will actually worsen the situation, cos they will need to grab slots and B737 pilots aren't exactly ready to takeover A320 without training and certifications


I could be wrong, but 737 to A320 conversion is quicker than FO to CA.

Going by the JetDoom thread start date, they have been trying for last 5-6 months to push Jet off the cliff.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:57 pm

This should clear any doubts about how 6E compares with other carriers in India.

Image
 
sibibom
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - February 2019

Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:59 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
sibibom wrote:
Jet going out of business will actually worsen the situation, cos they will need to grab slots and B737 pilots aren't exactly ready to takeover A320 without training and certifications


I could be wrong, but 737 to A320 conversion is quicker than FO to CA.

Going by the JetDoom thread start date, they have been trying for last 5-6 months to push Jet off the cliff.


Wouldn't GoAir or Air Asia India make better targets? I am not buying killing Jet for its Pilots, cos there are more efforts than rewards
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