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richiemo
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Delta's GE A333s

Sat Feb 02, 2019 11:04 pm

Hey gang - question. I only discovered the other day that Delta's latest A333s were delivered with GE engines (vs Pratt & Whitneys) providing higher MTOW. Any rhyme or reason to how they use them. I looked each one of them up today on Flightaware. One was used SLC to ATL today (granted it had originated in HNL. One was being used LAX to JFK etc. So it appears they aren't limited to ultra -long routes.
 
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FlightLevel360
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Re: Delta's GE A333s

Sun Feb 03, 2019 12:05 am

The domestic flights are repositioning. Aside from that, I believe the longest routes they are used on are LAX-HND and JFK-tel aviv, which are both outside the range maximum of a standard A333 (please let me know if this is incorrect; I can't check the numbers right now)
To me, it will always be:
- Bombardier CSeries
- Airbus A321neoLR and A321neoXLR
- EMBRACER ERJ-170, ERJ-175, ERJ-190, and ERJ-195
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Channex757
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Re: Delta's GE A333s

Sun Feb 03, 2019 12:43 am

The GE versions with high MTOW are just more flexible all round. They can lift extra cargo or fuel, and the fuel burn on the GEs is much better. Delta presumably also wanted to ensure their fleet is not too slanted towards Rolls Royce, just as they stated when they were taking the 757. Having multiple engine OEMs is good practice for a large carrier.

They also look good! DL's livery suits the A333 with the CF6
 
Alitalia744
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Re: Delta's GE A333s

Sun Feb 03, 2019 12:56 am

As FlightLevel360 said - they use them on the longer segments (LAX-HND/CDG/AMS; JFK-TLV) but they rotate thru the system as well.
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
strfyr51
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Re: Delta's GE A333s

Sun Feb 03, 2019 1:09 am

Channex757 wrote:
The GE versions with high MTOW are just more flexible all round. They can lift extra cargo or fuel, and the fuel burn on the GEs is much better. Delta presumably also wanted to ensure their fleet is not too slanted towards Rolls Royce, just as they stated when they were taking the 757. Having multiple engine OEMs is good practice for a large carrier.

They also look good! DL's livery suits the A333 with the CF6

commonality in a fleet is usually the life blood of an airline.. Though some airlines buy and equip airplanes to do specific jobs.
 
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TVNWZ
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Re: Delta's GE A333s

Sun Feb 03, 2019 1:19 am

When you have as many planes as DL does, that life blood can be spread around.
 
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Channex757
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Re: Delta's GE A333s

Sun Feb 03, 2019 1:26 am

strfyr51 wrote:
Channex757 wrote:
The GE versions with high MTOW are just more flexible all round. They can lift extra cargo or fuel, and the fuel burn on the GEs is much better. Delta presumably also wanted to ensure their fleet is not too slanted towards Rolls Royce, just as they stated when they were taking the 757. Having multiple engine OEMs is good practice for a large carrier.

They also look good! DL's livery suits the A333 with the CF6

commonality in a fleet is usually the life blood of an airline.. Though some airlines buy and equip airplanes to do specific jobs.

When you have a structure like Delta's TechOps or Lufthansa Technik it doesn't matter as much. As you say, planes can be bought with the right combination of engines and fitouts to do a job.

It was originally mentioned that these newer A333s were bought with the North Pacific in mind, or heavy traffic Atlantic routes between hubs.
 
MaksFly
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Re: Delta's GE A333s

Sun Feb 03, 2019 3:37 am

Weren't they also chosen with those engines for their own MROs?

I do get the commonality, BUT when you also do a lot of repair work for others, good to get some firsthand experience with as many options as you can.
 
Oliver2020
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Re: Delta's GE A333s

Sun Feb 03, 2019 4:09 am

They also look good! DL's livery suits the A333 with the CF6[/quote]

Yes the a333 with the cf6 looks very good in Delta livery not to hijack the thread but I’m also excited to see what the RR 7000 looks like on the neo in Delta livery
 
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Spacepope
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Re: Delta's GE A333s

Sun Feb 03, 2019 4:56 am

Channex757 wrote:
The GE versions with high MTOW are just more flexible all round. They can lift extra cargo or fuel, and the fuel burn on the GEs is much better. Delta presumably also wanted to ensure their fleet is not too slanted towards Rolls Royce, just as they stated when they were taking the 757. Having multiple engine OEMs is good practice for a large carrier.

They also look good! DL's livery suits the A333 with the CF6

Aren’t the only Rolls powered airframes the 717s?
The last of the famous international playboys
 
Varsity1
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Re: Delta's GE A333s

Sun Feb 03, 2019 4:59 am

Will the initial -900's be 242T? I know airbus has 251t in the plans..
 
Runway28L
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Re: Delta's GE A333s

Sun Feb 03, 2019 5:06 am

Spacepope wrote:
Channex757 wrote:
The GE versions with high MTOW are just more flexible all round. They can lift extra cargo or fuel, and the fuel burn on the GEs is much better. Delta presumably also wanted to ensure their fleet is not too slanted towards Rolls Royce, just as they stated when they were taking the 757. Having multiple engine OEMs is good practice for a large carrier.

They also look good! DL's livery suits the A333 with the CF6

Aren’t the only Rolls powered airframes the 717s?

The 772ERs are also RR powered.
 
Oliver2020
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Re: Delta's GE A333s

Sun Feb 03, 2019 5:11 am

Runway28L wrote:
Spacepope wrote:
Channex757 wrote:
The GE versions with high MTOW are just more flexible all round. They can lift extra cargo or fuel, and the fuel burn on the GEs is much better. Delta presumably also wanted to ensure their fleet is not too slanted towards Rolls Royce, just as they stated when they were taking the 757. Having multiple engine OEMs is good practice for a large carrier.

They also look good! DL's livery suits the A333 with the CF6

Aren’t the only Rolls powered airframes the 717s?

The 772ERs are also RR powered.


Yes the 91 717s, the 8- 772ers and the 12 , a350s also the remaining 13 a350s if delivered and the 35 a339s will have RR engines
 
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Spacepope
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Re: Delta's GE A333s

Sun Feb 03, 2019 5:13 am

Oliver2020 wrote:
Runway28L wrote:
Spacepope wrote:
Aren’t the only Rolls powered airframes the 717s?

The 772ERs are also RR powered.


Yes the 91 717s, the 8- 772ers and the 12 , a350s also the remaining 13 a350s if delivered and the 35 a339s will have RR engines

Ah. So before the 717s came in they only had 8 rolls powered aircraft in the whole fleet.
The last of the famous international playboys
 
Okcflyer
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Re: Delta's GE A333s

Sun Feb 03, 2019 5:15 am

Runway28L wrote:
Spacepope wrote:
Channex757 wrote:
The GE versions with high MTOW are just more flexible all round. They can lift extra cargo or fuel, and the fuel burn on the GEs is much better. Delta presumably also wanted to ensure their fleet is not too slanted towards Rolls Royce, just as they stated when they were taking the 757. Having multiple engine OEMs is good practice for a large carrier.

They also look good! DL's livery suits the A333 with the CF6

Aren’t the only Rolls powered airframes the 717s?

The 772ERs are also RR powered.


And A339’s and A359’s

Regarding the CF6 A333’s ... it’s about total package to Delta. While the CF6 burn is very close to RR’s T700 when new, it degrades quicker requiring earlier shop visit to restore or take the performance and burn reduction. Additionally, the T700 is significantly better with hot and high performance requirements (flat rates far higher than usual) but this is of limited value for DL’s network. The suspicion is RR’s was too aggressive on total package pricing and Delta found the GE solution to work better number-wise (financing, maintenance agreement, purchase price)
 
rufusmi
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Re: Delta's GE A333s

Sun Feb 03, 2019 5:21 am

Runway28L wrote:
Spacepope wrote:
Channex757 wrote:
The GE versions with high MTOW are just more flexible all round. They can lift extra cargo or fuel, and the fuel burn on the GEs is much better. Delta presumably also wanted to ensure their fleet is not too slanted towards Rolls Royce, just as they stated when they were taking the 757. Having multiple engine OEMs is good practice for a large carrier.

They also look good! DL's livery suits the A333 with the CF6

Aren’t the only Rolls powered airframes the 717s?

The 772ERs are also RR powered.


As are the A350s are and the A330neos will be.
 
Oliver2020
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Re: Delta's GE A333s

Sun Feb 03, 2019 6:21 am

Also Delta got the MRO work on the 717, a330neo and a350 engines.
 
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Channex757
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Re: Delta's GE A333s

Sun Feb 03, 2019 7:33 am

Remember too DL was a huge RR customer with the TriStar fleet. Whatever the reason, Delta has a renowned maintenance capability so supporting engines isn't too difficult for them. Their alliance partners AF and KL also have shops that support the CF6-80E1 so if necessary work could be outsourced to them.
 
Oliver2020
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Re: Delta's GE A333s

Sun Feb 03, 2019 8:18 am

Channex757 wrote:
Remember too DL was a huge RR customer with the TriStar fleet. Whatever the reason, Delta has a renowned maintenance capability so supporting engines isn't too difficult for them. Their alliance partners AF and KL also have shops that support the CF6-80E1 so if necessary work could be outsourced to them.


Also forgot to add then MD 90 engine the IAE V2500-D is part Rolls Royce, if we want to count part as a RR engine which would add 40 aircraft at the moment.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Delta's GE A333s

Sun Feb 03, 2019 8:54 am

strfyr51 wrote:
commonality in a fleet is usually the life blood of an airline.

No. Having the optimum platform for the job, is the "life blood of an airline".... the commonality obsession is far more pronounced among AvGeeks and regional LoCos, than it is among airlines as a whole.



Channex757 wrote:
Delta presumably also wanted to ensure their fleet is not too slanted towards Rolls Royce, just as they stated when they were taking the 757. Having multiple engine OEMs is good practice for a large carrier.

If by "presumably," you mean "something that you just made up," then sure. :lol:

There was a grand total of eight RR powered aircraft in DL's mainline fleet, on the day that they ordered those GE A333s.

717s had not been delivered, A339s and A359s had not been ordered. There were many factors that went into DL's engine choice; fear of over-reliance on RR was not one of them.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
Oliver2020
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Re: Delta's GE A333s

Sun Feb 03, 2019 9:07 am

LAX772LR wrote:
strfyr51 wrote:
commonality in a fleet is usually the life blood of an airline.

No. Having the optimum platform for the job, is the "life blood of an airline".... the commonality obsession is far more pronounced among AvGeeks and regional LoCos, than it is among airlines as a whole.



Channex757 wrote:
Delta presumably also wanted to ensure their fleet is not too slanted towards Rolls Royce, just as they stated when they were taking the 757. Having multiple engine OEMs is good practice for a large carrier.

If by "presumably," you mean "something that you just made up," then sure. :lol:

There was a grand total of eight RR powered aircraft in DL's mainline fleet, on the day that they ordered those GE A333s.

717s had not been delivered, A339s and A359s had not been ordered. There were many factors that went into DL's engine choice; fear of over-reliance on RR was not one of them.


Your very knowledgeable, and seem to be in the know when it comes to Delta, so I have two questions.

1. Does Delta not overhaul the 717 engine in house. I searched the Delta tech ops web site and it only mentioned for rolls Royce that they only overhaul the
Trent XWB and the Trent 7000

2. Regarding the prats on the pre merger a330's the rumor posted on a net many moons ago was or is a troublesome engine is that fact or just rumor?
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Delta's GE A333s

Sun Feb 03, 2019 9:14 am

Oliver2020 wrote:
1. Does Delta not overhaul the 717 engine in house. I searched the Delta tech ops web site and it only mentioned for rolls Royce that they only overhaul the
Trent XWB and the Trent 7000

https://news.delta.com/delta-techops-ad ... -portfolio



Oliver2020 wrote:
2. Regarding the prats on the pre merger a330's the rumor posted on a net many moons ago was or is a troublesome engine is that fact or just rumor?

I haven't personally heard that, but doesn't mean that's not what they're saying.

Objectively, it's a well established engine, and for a long time, the second most popular choice for the A333 (though by a significant gap, from the leading RR option).
The failure of the PW4173 left a sour taste in some airlines' mouths, vis-a-vis PW and the A330, but that's water that's long since under the bridge.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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Channex757
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Re: Delta's GE A333s

Sun Feb 03, 2019 12:35 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
If by "presumably," you mean "something that you just made up," then sure. :lol:

There was a grand total of eight RR powered aircraft in DL's mainline fleet, on the day that they ordered those GE A333s.

717s had not been delivered, A339s and A359s had not been ordered. There were many factors that went into DL's engine choice; fear of over-reliance on RR was not one of them.

"Presumably" means an opinion.

DL had negotiations ongoing with regard to the A350. They would not have just rung up Leahy and ordered a batch. The 787 order they inherited from Northwest also included engines and financing from Rolls Royce. DL had a relationship with RR, as well as one with GE, and their comments at the time over the PW2037 versus RB211 were quite well known. It was Delta policy to spread their exposure.

DL could have used the A333 deal to negotiate away their liabilities to Rolls Royce for the Trent 1000 but didn't. Obviously other elements were in play.
 
jfk777
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Re: Delta's GE A333s

Sun Feb 03, 2019 2:09 pm

The none GE A330 fleet at Delta came with the Northwest merger which have Pratt & Whitney engines. The GE A330 were ordered directly by Delta, since they are later versions they have higher take-off weights.
 
SteelChair
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Re: Delta's GE A333s

Sun Feb 03, 2019 2:20 pm

Countless half truths on the thread, but I'll just respond to one of the comments at this time, regarding the PW powered airplanes being troublesome.

In the opinion of some (many?), if it says PW on the data plate, its a troublesome engine.
 
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Revelation
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Re: Delta's GE A333s

Sun Feb 03, 2019 2:49 pm

SteelChair wrote:
Countless half truths on the thread

50% truth is pretty good for an a.net thread! :biggrin:
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Oliver2020
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Re: Delta's GE A333s

Sun Feb 03, 2019 2:58 pm

jfk777 wrote:
The none GE A330 fleet at Delta came with the Northwest merger which have Pratt & Whitney engines. The GE A330 were ordered directly by Delta, since they are later versions they have higher take-off weights.


Correct what I asked him about were the
Pre merger
11-a330-200 P&w powered and the
21-a330-300 p&w powered that were inherited through the northwest merger
The 10 GEs were ordered at the same time Delta ordered the 30-a321ceo after the merger
 
richiemo
Topic Author
Posts: 260
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Re: Delta's GE A333s

Sun Feb 03, 2019 3:58 pm

It's funny but until I noticed the GE-engine Delta 333s, I didn't know Delta had ordered A330s prior to the NEO order. I thought they only had the legacy NW birds.

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