ilovelamp
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Emirates, Qatar, and Air Arabia accused of bribery

Sun Feb 03, 2019 10:19 pm

http://newsinflight.com/2019/02/03/emir ... ia-routes/

If proven completely true, I could see other governments beginning investigations into these carriers.


ILL
 
9w748capt
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Re: Emirates, Qatar, and Air Arabia accused of bribery

Sun Feb 03, 2019 10:25 pm

Thank you Praful!
 
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Slash787
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Re: Emirates, Qatar, and Air Arabia accused of bribery

Sun Feb 03, 2019 10:27 pm

Well Air India still would have been a failure anyways. When I read the title I was like I hope this has nothing got to do with India, but well I was wrong.
 
ABpositive
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Re: Emirates, Qatar, and Air Arabia accused of bribery

Sun Feb 03, 2019 10:33 pm

It's such a fine line between "bribery" and "lobby groups".
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Emirates, Qatar, and Air Arabia accused of bribery

Sun Feb 03, 2019 10:44 pm

Why throw in poor BA in the pic. Is that an Indian website?
 
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kjeld0d
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Re: Emirates, Qatar, and Air Arabia accused of bribery

Sun Feb 03, 2019 10:50 pm

I'd like to share a quote from Disney's "Aladdin" (1992), specifically the song "Arabian Nights". I think its relevant here.

Oh, I come from a land, from a faraway place
Where the caravan camels roam
Where it's flat and immense and the heat is intense
It's barbaric, but hey, it's home

When the wind's from the east
And the sun's from the west
And the sand in the glass is right
Come on down, stop on by
Hop a carpet and fly
To another Arabian night

Arabian nights, like Arabian days
More often than not are hotter than hot
In a lot of good ways

Arabian nights 'neath Arabian moons
A fool off his guard could fall and fall hard
Out there on the dunes
 
Ziyulu
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Re: Emirates, Qatar, and Air Arabia accused of bribery

Sun Feb 03, 2019 11:25 pm

Just like our US Airlines, our government saved them numerous times from bankruptcy. Is that bribery? I'm sure the airlines have special interest groups in government.
 
m007j
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Re: Emirates, Qatar, and Air Arabia accused of bribery

Sun Feb 03, 2019 11:28 pm

I don't understand the problem, this is simply the cost of doing business in India? Everyone has done it, and if they told you they haven't, they're lying to you....
 
sonicruiser
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Re: Emirates, Qatar, and Air Arabia accused of bribery

Sun Feb 03, 2019 11:31 pm

How is this news? Hate to break it you, but if you think EK, QR, and AA are the only people bribing the Indian gov, then you've been living under a rock for the past 10 years. Bribes are a part of the culture, not just in the gov, but among the police, in schools, and in companies. It is woven into all parts of society and instead of blaming EK, QR, and AA for what is essentially the cost of doing business, they should try to fix the culture of accepting them in the first place. People will always offer bribes, the difference is not all cultures will accept it.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Emirates, Qatar, and Air Arabia accused of bribery

Sun Feb 03, 2019 11:46 pm

sonicruiser wrote:
How is this news? Hate to break it you, but if you think EK, QR, and AA are the only people bribing the Indian gov, then you've been living under a rock for the past 10 years. Bribes are a part of the culture, not just in the gov, but among the police, in schools, and in companies. It is woven into all parts of society and instead of blaming EK, QR, and AA for what is essentially the cost of doing business, they should try to fix the culture of accepting them in the first place. People will always offer bribes, the difference is not all cultures will accept it.

India needs to improve the corruption to index on transparency international. Such a low score is indicative of corruption slowing the economy.

Lightsaber
IM messages to mods on warnings and bans will be ignored and nasty ones will result in a ban.
 
jetblueguy22
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Re: Emirates, Qatar, and Air Arabia accused of bribery

Mon Feb 04, 2019 1:15 am

The article reads like a slam piece more so than real news. Maybe it’s just me... Just coming out and saying that they did it doesn’t convince me. Prove it in court. Otherwise we have the same he said/she said nonsense we always have when it comes to AI and ME3
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Emirates, Qatar, and Air Arabia accused of bribery

Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:48 am

This is what happens when a barely educated journalist picks random lines from an indictment and Google search to pen a new article.

When a country with 30 airports signs a BASA with a City-State, it gets only one point of presence. Dubai cannot create more cities for India.
ME3 didn't steal profitable routes from AI, 9W and KF did. With BASAs ME3 dumped capacity, different issue.
Looks like money changed hands for BASAs, the crux of the story.

But nothing to worry, this case will be shelved after June '19. Just sit tight for 4 months.
 
WIederling
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Re: Emirates, Qatar, and Air Arabia accused of bribery

Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:13 am

m007j wrote:
I don't understand the problem, this is simply the cost of doing business in India? Everyone has done it, and if they told you they haven't, they're lying to you....


Seems to be the case everywhere.

lobbyists are a very high income crowd in most every country.
How much monetary turnaround do lobbyists in Washington DC show?
How much monetary turnaround do lobbyists in Berlin show?
How much of that of that is foreign money?

The backdorish way lobbyism works by is strongly problematic.
Essentially you work past the sovereign and vie the janitors.
Murphy is an optimist
 
mjoelnir
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Re: Emirates, Qatar, and Air Arabia accused of bribery

Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:22 am

lightsaber wrote:
sonicruiser wrote:
How is this news? Hate to break it you, but if you think EK, QR, and AA are the only people bribing the Indian gov, then you've been living under a rock for the past 10 years. Bribes are a part of the culture, not just in the gov, but among the police, in schools, and in companies. It is woven into all parts of society and instead of blaming EK, QR, and AA for what is essentially the cost of doing business, they should try to fix the culture of accepting them in the first place. People will always offer bribes, the difference is not all cultures will accept it.

India needs to improve the corruption to index on transparency international. Such a low score is indicative of corruption slowing the economy.

Lightsaber


The piece is about a lobbyist receiving money to promote the views of a company. India seems to track the USA with regards to lobbying. In the USA it is just careful not called bribes.
 
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Revelation
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Re: Emirates, Qatar, and Air Arabia accused of bribery

Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:27 am

Related article:

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 934978.cms

was presented by yashk in viewtopic.php?p=21086191#p21086191

along with infographic:

Image

----

sonicruiser wrote:
How is this news? Hate to break it you, but if you think EK, QR, and AA are the only people bribing the Indian gov, then you've been living under a rock for the past 10 years. Bribes are a part of the culture, not just in the gov, but among the police, in schools, and in companies. It is woven into all parts of society and instead of blaming EK, QR, and AA for what is essentially the cost of doing business, they should try to fix the culture of accepting them in the first place. People will always offer bribes, the difference is not all cultures will accept it.

One way to fix the culture is to make it news!

Shame goes a long way towards implementing a solution.

Saying it is not news is part of the "normalization of deviance" that leads to so much trouble.

You need to have severe penalties on both sides of the bribing relationship.

There was a big scandal in the US in the 70s involving Lockheed whose aftermath was:

Lockheed chairman of the board Daniel Haughton and vice chairman and president Carl Kotchian resigned from their posts on February 13, 1976. The scandal also played a part in the formulation of the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act which President Jimmy Carter signed into law on December 19, 1977, which made it illegal for American persons and entities to bribe foreign government officials.

According to Ben Rich, director of Lockheed's Skunk Works:

Lockheed executives admitted paying millions in bribes over more than a decade to the Dutch (Prince Bernhard, husband of Queen Juliana, in particular), to key Japanese and West German politicians, to Italian officials and generals, and to other highly placed figures from Hong Kong to Saudi Arabia, in order to get them to buy our airplanes. Kelly [referring to Clarence "Kelly" Johnson, first team leader of the Skunk Works] was so sickened by these revelations that he had almost quit, even though the top Lockheed management implicated in the scandal resigned in disgrace.[22]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_bribery_scandals

IMHO one reason the Airbus "bullshit castle" investigation is being downplayed is the principals involved don't want to find themselves exposed to US law on corruption and the legal investigators are using that to their advantage. The US DOJ has asked for access to the evidence and so far seems to have been stonewalled.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
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keesje
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Re: Emirates, Qatar, and Air Arabia accused of bribery

Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:54 am

I'm afraid it's lots of politics. Maybe there were more companies not mentioned for specific rea$on$. Some people / groups where bypa$$ed and are pi$$ed now because they didn't pay / receive enough, want to get / weren't re-elected. India..
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Emirates, Qatar, and Air Arabia accused of bribery

Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:02 pm

In US lobbying is legal, in Europe gifts are legal, but in the third world, bribes are illegal. The act is the same but different words.

AFAIK, India's anti-bribery/integrity pact clauses are not applicable to Air Service Agreements. I don't foresee airlines having any legal issues. Someone could correct me.

If these were related to civil/defense purchases, integrity pact violation could cause cancellation of the contract, penalties and/or ban.

BTW, the current Indian government is not mandating anti-bribery/integrity clauses for new contracts. It also removed bans imposed by the previous governments, these are defense contracts, not going to quote on CA forum.
 
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Revelation
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Re: Emirates, Qatar, and Air Arabia accused of bribery

Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:18 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
In US lobbying is legal, in Europe gifts are legal, but in the third world, bribes are illegal. The act is the same but different words.

The act is the same if you can show money moved from influencer to influenced.

With a bribe or a gift (or a campaign donation, when allowed) you can.

With lobbying, you can't, otherwise it would be a bribe.

The common element is the dubious ethics/morality.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own

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