FlyingLaw1
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Crash in Yorba Linda, CA

Sun Feb 03, 2019 10:33 pm

Just found this on Twitter. Seems like it just happened so very little information that I could find. Hoping for good news but certainly not looking like that will be the case....

https://twitter.com/JoshuaRNelson/status/1092181990017622016

Edit: Some new pictures showing a prop and what looks like an engine in the yard of a nearby house. What looks like a wing quite a ways from the main fire. Wonder if there was a mid-air breakup?
 
MrBretz
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Re: Crash in Yorba Linda, CA

Sun Feb 03, 2019 10:46 pm

So sad. I live about 20 miles from the accident. I wish everyone the best.
 
cynlb
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Re: Crash in Yorba Linda, CA

Sun Feb 03, 2019 10:49 pm

 
Karlsands
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Re: Crash in Yorba Linda, CA

Sun Feb 03, 2019 11:38 pm

I’d bet on a weigh and balance issue, may they all rest well. And may the survived recover mentally and physically
 
heyjoojoo
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Re: Crash in Yorba Linda, CA

Mon Feb 04, 2019 1:55 am

Looks like it broke up catastrophically or exploded midair. Strange.

Debris scattered all over the place ahead of the house, in relation to the direction of flight.
 
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SuseJ772
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Re: Crash in Yorba Linda, CA

Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:48 am

I wouldn’t think if there are only 2 dead and 2 injured with a max of 4 on the plane and quite possibly less, that this would be a weight and balance issue. Likely either engine out or possibly mid air break up. I will admit the debris path is interesting compared to most engine out scenarios.
Currently at PIE, requesting FWA >> >>
 
Newark727
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Re: Crash in Yorba Linda, CA

Mon Feb 04, 2019 4:05 am

Article says it took off from Fullerton - if that's the case, a Cessna 414 is one of the bigger things that you'll ever see flying there. Runway's only 3100 feet, though that doesn't seem to have been the issue here.
 
heyjoojoo
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Re: Crash in Yorba Linda, CA

Mon Feb 04, 2019 4:50 am

There's audio of the incident. The engine noises you expect to hear in a grave yard spiral loss of control. He was in IMC. I suspect that's where the investigation goes. I suspect all those reports of pieces falling off were the shit scattering

https://youtu.be/RSmttRBQ4x0?t=8
 
FlyingLaw1
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Re: Crash in Yorba Linda, CA

Mon Feb 04, 2019 5:18 am

heyjoojoo wrote:
There's audio of the incident. The engine noises you expect to hear in a grave yard spiral loss of control. He was in IMC. I suspect that's where the investigation goes. I suspect all those reports of pieces falling off were the shit scattering

https://youtu.be/RSmttRBQ4x0?t=8


That is such an incredibly haunting video.
 
747Whale
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Re: Crash in Yorba Linda, CA

Mon Feb 04, 2019 5:24 am

Karlsands wrote:
I’d bet on a weigh and balance issue, may they all rest well. And may the survived recover mentally and physically


That's ridiculous. Wild speculation with no facts in evidence. Sheer guess work. Irresponsible.

An aircraft crashed. That's all that's known. Stick to facts, instead of fantasy.
 
d8s
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Re: Crash in Yorba Linda, CA

Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:10 am

Here is the WX at the time of the accident: KFUL 032153Z 23006KT 10SM SCT022 BKN041 OVC050 15/11 A2988 RMK AO2 RAE2057 SLP118 P0000 T01500106
 
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AAlaxfan
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Re: Crash in Yorba Linda, CA

Mon Feb 04, 2019 7:02 am

d8s wrote:
Here is the WX at the time of the accident: KFUL 032153Z 23006KT 10SM SCT022 BKN041 OVC050 15/11 A2988 RMK AO2 RAE2057 SLP118 P0000 T01500106

Translation please.
Grumpy. Not a dwarf, not an attitude. It's a lifestyle.
 
Luke1994
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Re: Crash in Yorba Linda, CA

Mon Feb 04, 2019 7:28 am

AAlaxfan wrote:
d8s wrote:
Here is the WX at the time of the accident: KFUL 032153Z 23006KT 10SM SCT022 BKN041 OVC050 15/11 A2988 RMK AO2 RAE2057 SLP118 P0000 T01500106

Translation please.

Winds 230 at 6, 10 statue mile visibility, ceilings scattered 2,200; broken 4,100; overcast 5,000, temperature 15, dewpoint 11, altimeter 29.88.
CMEL student for now...
 
wxtech
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Re: Crash in Yorba Linda, CA

Mon Feb 04, 2019 2:09 pm

Luke1994 wrote:
AAlaxfan wrote:
d8s wrote:
Here is the WX at the time of the accident: KFUL 032153Z 23006KT 10SM SCT022 BKN041 OVC050 15/11 A2988 RMK AO2 RAE2057 SLP118 P0000 T01500106


FULLERTON AIRPORT
TIME 2153 ZULU TIME
WIND FROM 230 DEGREES AT 6 KNOTS
VISIBILITY 10 STATUTE MILES
SKY CONDITION SCATTERED CLOUDS TWO THOUSAND TWO HUNDRED FEET, CEILING BROKEN 4 THOUSAND ONE HUNDRED, OVERCAST FIVE THOUSAND.
TEMPERATURE 15C (59F) DEW POINT 11 C (51F)
ALTIMETER 29.88
REMARKS RAIN ENDED 2057 ZULU TIME TOTAL PRECIPITATION IN THE PAST HOUR IS A TRACE.
 
jworks158
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Re: Crash in Yorba Linda, CA

Mon Feb 04, 2019 2:31 pm

Aircraft was N414RS a Cessna 414. I determined this yesterday while looking at live footage from over the crash scene. The NTSB spokesperson on site said that in a video he saw, it appeared that the aircraft broke apart mid flight. https://abc7.com/yorba-linda-5-killed-a ... s/5119211/
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d8s
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Re: Crash in Yorba Linda, CA

Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:19 pm

jworks158 wrote:
Aircraft was N414RS a Cessna 414. I determined this yesterday while looking at live footage from over the crash scene. The NTSB spokesperson on site said that in a video he saw, it appeared that the aircraft broke apart mid flight. https://abc7.com/yorba-linda-5-killed-a ... s/5119211/


Listening to the audio in the link above, sounds like the plane tried to make a turn, then lost spatial awareness. Very sad for the 4 people in the house. My sister lives 7 doors down, has debris in her yard.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Crash in Yorba Linda, CA

Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:20 pm

The weather at FUL says little about the inflight conditions, if it’s an LOC in IMC accident.

GF
 
skyharborshome
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Re: Crash in Yorba Linda, CA

Mon Feb 04, 2019 5:42 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
The weather at FUL says little about the inflight conditions, if it’s an LOC in IMC accident.

GF


Must have been a massive G-force to break a wing mid flight. Looks like both sheared off however for sure once of them broke in-flight. Possible LOC due to one engine out with IMC being a factor ot like you it was said previous he become disoriented. Either way that was was quite the turn and a tragic end to have people on the ground killed.
Fly CHD!
 
d8s
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Re: Crash in Yorba Linda, CA

Mon Feb 04, 2019 5:59 pm

skyharborshome wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
The weather at FUL says little about the inflight conditions, if it’s an LOC in IMC accident.

GF


Must have been a massive G-force to break a wing mid flight. Looks like both sheared off however for sure once of them broke in-flight. Possible LOC due to one engine out with IMC being a factor ot like you it was said previous he become disoriented. Either way that was was quite the turn and a tragic end to have people on the ground killed.


Here is a link to video of the accident: https://www.onenewspage.com/video/20190 ... ashcam.htm
 
milemaster
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Re: Crash in Yorba Linda, CA

Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:38 pm

747Whale wrote:
Karlsands wrote:
I’d bet on a weigh and balance issue, may they all rest well. And may the survived recover mentally and physically


That's ridiculous. Wild speculation with no facts in evidence. Sheer guess work. Irresponsible.

An aircraft crashed. That's all that's known. Stick to facts, instead of fantasy.


Easy there partner.
 
WayexTDI
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Re: Crash in Yorba Linda, CA

Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:51 pm

milemaster wrote:
747Whale wrote:
That's ridiculous. Wild speculation with no facts in evidence. Sheer guess work. Irresponsible.

An aircraft crashed. That's all that's known. Stick to facts, instead of fantasy.


Easy there partner.

You are not allowed in any way, shape or form to doubt or criticize what 747Whale says; he knows everything.

/s
 
trnswrld
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Re: Crash in Yorba Linda, CA

Mon Feb 04, 2019 7:42 pm

^^^ sorry but he’s right.....how can anyone come on here literally right after a crash and be like “oh sounds like a weight and balance issue” Lol wtf. How does that person have ANY idea whatsoever to make that statement?
 
FX1816
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Re: Crash in Yorba Linda, CA

Mon Feb 04, 2019 7:52 pm

So very sad. I saw the plane take off as I was near Knott's Berry Farm at the time.
 
SBowla
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Re: Crash in Yorba Linda, CA

Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:34 pm

Also there is a link here with sound and video.

https://video.nest.com/clip/64a943efd28 ... 37d5ab.mp4

Looks like it broke up before and was in flames before landing. Some pieces fall before and others fall off to the side.
 
milemaster
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Re: Crash in Yorba Linda, CA

Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:34 pm

trnswrld wrote:
^^^ sorry but he’s right.....how can anyone come on here literally right after a crash and be like “oh sounds like a weight and balance issue” Lol wtf. How does that person have ANY idea whatsoever to make that statement?


Because this is an internet message board that consists of public topics that anyone can speculate on? Do you think speculating on airliners.net is the equivalent to an NTSB ruling?
 
LTCM
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Re: Crash in Yorba Linda, CA

Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:18 am

Time to seriously restrict this kind of aviation. If you cannot maintain a plane and pilot skills then you don't fly, period
 
WayexTDI
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Re: Crash in Yorba Linda, CA

Tue Feb 05, 2019 1:07 am

LTCM wrote:
Time to seriously restrict this kind of aviation. If you cannot maintain a plane and pilot skills then you don't fly, period

We don't even know what happened yet. It could be anything from pilot error to maintenance issue to design defect to pure coincidence.
 
Adipocere
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Re: Crash in Yorba Linda, CA

Tue Feb 05, 2019 1:28 am

Absolutely tragic for the folks on the ground - just going about your business, living your life and it all just ends. Absolutely no control or agency. It’s been a while since I’ve heard about Yorba Linda either - wasn’t this Richard Nixon’s hangout?
 
DTWLAX
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Re: Crash in Yorba Linda, CA

Tue Feb 05, 2019 1:52 am

What is up with these small plane crashes in Orange County. In a similar incident in August last year, another small plane crashed down in a parking lot next to South Coast Plaza killing all passengers.
 
trnswrld
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Re: Crash in Yorba Linda, CA

Tue Feb 05, 2019 2:12 am

milemaster wrote:
trnswrld wrote:
^^^ sorry but he’s right.....how can anyone come on here literally right after a crash and be like “oh sounds like a weight and balance issue” Lol wtf. How does that person have ANY idea whatsoever to make that statement?


Because this is an internet message board that consists of public topics that anyone can speculate on? Do you think speculating on airliners.net is the equivalent to an NTSB ruling?



Sure why not. Ok there you have it folks, it was a weight and balance issue :roll:
 
mga707
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Re: Crash in Yorba Linda, CA

Tue Feb 05, 2019 5:28 am

Adipocere wrote:
Absolutely tragic for the folks on the ground - just going about your business, living your life and it all just ends. Absolutely no control or agency. It’s been a while since I’ve heard about Yorba Linda either - wasn’t this Richard Nixon’s hangout?


It was his birthplace. His Southern California 'hangout' was in San Clemente.
 
FlapsOne
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Re: Crash in Yorba Linda, CA

Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:36 am

DTWLAX wrote:
What is up with these small plane crashes in Orange County. In a similar incident in August last year, another small plane crashed down in a parking lot next to South Coast Plaza killing all passengers.


Powerful complex aircraft whose skills set and knowledge required to fly them far exceed your average amateur pilot? Remember a CPL doesn't mean you're a professional pilot per se as it merely entitles you to fly for reward. A CPL is a basic PPL with a couple of extras on it. These powerful complex aircraft need to be flown a lot to attain and maintain proficiency much like the 'doctor killers' of past and present.
 
crownvic
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Re: Crash in Yorba Linda, CA

Tue Feb 05, 2019 11:35 am

jworks158 wrote:
Aircraft was N414RS a Cessna 414. I determined this yesterday while looking at live footage from over the crash scene. The NTSB spokesperson on site said that in a video he saw, it appeared that the aircraft broke apart mid flight. https://abc7.com/yorba-linda-5-killed-a ... s/5119211/



You determined this yesterday while looking at live footage...strange what a coincidence, I determined the same results looking at the same pics showing registration on the fuselage plastered all over the internet yesterday too.

Those poor people in the house and the ones that made it out...awful
 
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hOMSaR
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Re: Crash in Yorba Linda, CA

Tue Feb 05, 2019 11:51 am

d8s wrote:
skyharborshome wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
The weather at FUL says little about the inflight conditions, if it’s an LOC in IMC accident.

GF


Must have been a massive G-force to break a wing mid flight. Looks like both sheared off however for sure once of them broke in-flight. Possible LOC due to one engine out with IMC being a factor ot like you it was said previous he become disoriented. Either way that was was quite the turn and a tragic end to have people on the ground killed.


Here is a link to video of the accident: https://www.onenewspage.com/video/20190 ... ashcam.htm


Just curious: if the crash occurred this week, why does the date stamp on the video say January 2016?
The plural of Airbus is Airbuses. Airbii is not a word.
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readytotaxi
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Re: Crash in Yorba Linda, CA

Tue Feb 05, 2019 11:56 am

Date and time are usually set by the operator, if nothing is entered runs from factory default
you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
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groundbird
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Re: Crash in Yorba Linda, CA

Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:03 pm

Karlsands wrote:
"I’d bet on a weigh and balance issue..."

This burst from being merely silly into the remarkably-jackass-comment category with the abject wrongness of using the word 'weigh'
 
remingtonbox
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Re: Crash in Yorba Linda, CA

Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:31 pm

LTCM wrote:
Time to seriously restrict this kind of aviation. If you cannot maintain a plane and pilot skills then you don't fly, period

What kind of aviation would that be? The kind with 2 wings and 2 engines? You have zero information about anything, what an arrogant statement.
 
d8s
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Re: Crash in Yorba Linda, CA

Tue Feb 05, 2019 3:40 pm

LTCM wrote:
Time to seriously restrict this kind of aviation. If you cannot maintain a plane and pilot skills then you don't fly, period


Someone anti-aviation on an aviation related website? Sounds to me like a journalist phasing.
 
F9Animal
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Re: Crash in Yorba Linda, CA

Tue Feb 05, 2019 5:18 pm

So so sad!!! How far away was the crash from the airport? Is it possible he had spatial disorientation, and somehow over stressed the plane for it to break up? I mean, those engines were screaming, which makes me wonder if he was literally driving and tried to pull up when he saw the ground at the last seconds, and snapped the wing off.

Whatever the case, the sounds are horrific!
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awthompson
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Re: Crash in Yorba Linda, CA

Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:13 pm

skyharborshome wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
The weather at FUL says little about the inflight conditions, if it’s an LOC in IMC accident.

GF


Must have been a massive G-force to break a wing mid flight. Looks like both sheared off however for sure once of them broke in-flight. Possible LOC due to one engine out with IMC being a factor ot like you it was said previous he become disoriented. Either way that was was quite the turn and a tragic end to have people on the ground killed.


heyjoojoo wrote:
There's audio of the incident. The engine noises you expect to hear in a grave yard spiral loss of control. He was in IMC. I suspect that's where the investigation goes. I suspect all those reports of pieces falling off were the shit scattering

https://youtu.be/RSmttRBQ4x0?t=8


Although many other readers on this site have already expressed their dislike of speculation, we already have a number of videos, at least one with very clear vivid sound titled 'Airplane Crash (audio only) in Yorba Linda, California' which would certainly be in keeping with both of the above scenarios, one leading to the other. The breakup is very clearly due to over stress of the aircraft as you can hear the engine(s) in an overspeed situation. Someone with more experience could decipher whether there is only one or both engines running during the dive. I cannot be sure but possibly there is only one running?

An in flight breakup of any aircraft is extremely rare and there are very few scenarios besides stress over and above design limits which would cause same. The screaming engine sound does indicate an overspeed situation and a very hard pull-out attempt in this situation is quite likely to cause breakup beginning with engines being ripped from their mounts (note: the engine sound does cease immediately after the loud bangs) or wing(s) snapping off completely,

On listening to the sound a few times more, I can hear what sounds like a normal climb out, but can anyone else hear a faint 'bang' at around 00:23 in the video entitled 'Airplane Crash (audio only) in Yorba Linda, California' which could be the sound of a mechanical engine failure of one engine, or could of course be a sound that is nothing to do with the incident. It is worth noting indeed that after that point things do start to turn abnormal. Based on this, there is quite a possibility that we can hear a significant sound at 00:23 which could indicate the loss of one engine.
 
jworks158
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Re: Crash in Yorba Linda, CA

Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:49 pm

crownvic wrote:
jworks158 wrote:
Aircraft was N414RS a Cessna 414. I determined this yesterday while looking at live footage from over the crash scene. The NTSB spokesperson on site said that in a video he saw, it appeared that the aircraft broke apart mid flight. https://abc7.com/yorba-linda-5-killed-a ... s/5119211/



You determined this yesterday while looking at live footage...strange what a coincidence, I determined the same results looking at the same pics showing registration on the fuselage plastered all over the internet yesterday too.



At the time I determined this the only pictures floating around the internet were of N414_S as one letter was obstructed by the wing. At that time a lot of people had called it as N414BS, but the live footage from a copter showed that it was RS instead of BS
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Gulfstream500
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Re: Crash in Yorba Linda, CA

Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:08 pm

If the crash was truly an inflight breakup, it probably had to do with a fault in the aircraft’s design or poor maintainence. Regardless, this event is a tragedy and I hope for the best for the families of the victims.
Thinking of a good signature is hard...
 
SoCalPilot
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Re: Crash in Yorba Linda, CA

Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:49 pm

I'm pretty sure there's an AD out for the Cessna 400 series for wing spar cracks, requires inspection every so often.

Not saying that had anything to do with what happened, but the weather conditions weren't ideal this past weekend, with gusty winds and SIGMETs for moderate turbulence and PIREPs of moderate and severe turbulence across the LA area.
 
747Whale
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Re: Crash in Yorba Linda, CA

Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:14 pm

milemaster wrote:
trnswrld wrote:
^^^ sorry but he’s right.....how can anyone come on here literally right after a crash and be like “oh sounds like a weight and balance issue” Lol wtf. How does that person have ANY idea whatsoever to make that statement?


Because this is an internet message board that consists of public topics that anyone can speculate on? Do you think speculating on airliners.net is the equivalent to an NTSB ruling?


The NTSB doesn't rule on mishaps. The NTSB investigates them, thoroughly, and professionally.

No, speculating on the internet about a mishap is not the equivalent to an NTSB investigation.

Speculating on the internet is mindless drivel. No comparison whatsoever with an NTSB investigation.

LTCM wrote:
Time to seriously restrict this kind of aviation. If you cannot maintain a plane and pilot skills then you don't fly, period


Restrict which kind of aviation?

Most pilots can't maintain an airplane.

You have no idea if this mishap involved pilot skills, or maintenance. It may have been any number of things, as no details are forthcoming yet. That's the purpose of an investigation, rather than mindless speculation.
 
WayexTDI
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Re: Crash in Yorba Linda, CA

Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:22 pm

747Whale wrote:
milemaster wrote:
trnswrld wrote:
^^^ sorry but he’s right.....how can anyone come on here literally right after a crash and be like “oh sounds like a weight and balance issue” Lol wtf. How does that person have ANY idea whatsoever to make that statement?


Because this is an internet message board that consists of public topics that anyone can speculate on? Do you think speculating on airliners.net is the equivalent to an NTSB ruling?


The NTSB doesn't rule on mishaps. The NTSB investigates them, thoroughly, and professionally.

No, speculating on the internet about a mishap is not the equivalent to an NTSB investigation.

Speculating on the internet is mindless drivel. No comparison whatsoever with an NTSB investigation.

LTCM wrote:
Time to seriously restrict this kind of aviation. If you cannot maintain a plane and pilot skills then you don't fly, period


Restrict which kind of aviation?

Most pilots can't maintain an airplane.

You have no idea if this mishap involved pilot skills, or maintenance. It may have been any number of things, as no details are forthcoming yet. That's the purpose of an investigation, rather than mindless speculation.

Absolutely correct.

However, a lot of people on here (especially you) have enough knowledge to weed out through the numerous possibilities of such a crash to select a few most likely reasons.
All remains hypothetical of course until the official report is released.
 
cynlb
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Re: Crash in Yorba Linda, CA

Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:42 pm

Adipocere wrote:
Absolutely tragic for the folks on the ground - just going about your business, living your life and it all just ends. Absolutely no control or agency. It’s been a while since I’ve heard about Yorba Linda either - wasn’t this Richard Nixon’s hangout?


The Nixon Library is about 3 miles away from the crash location
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard ... and_Museum
 
747Whale
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Re: Crash in Yorba Linda, CA

Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:03 pm

WayexTDI wrote:
Absolutely correct.

However, a lot of people on here (especially you) have enough knowledge to weed out through the numerous possibilities of such a crash to select a few most likely reasons.
All remains hypothetical of course until the official report is released.


I have enough technical knowledge and working knowledge to refrain from speculation in the absence of fact.

I've flown the 414 privately and under Part 135, and have instructed in it and been a check airman in it, so have some experience in the type. It doesn't give me any insight into what happened, however, in absence of fact.
 
26point2
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Re: Crash in Yorba Linda, CA

Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:45 am

The story has taken a strange twist. It was initially reported that the pilot was a retired Chicago policeman but his Police ID is fake and there is no record of him working for the Chicago Police.

http://abc7.com/oc-plane-crash-pilots-f ... p/5121959/
 
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SuseJ772
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Re: Crash in Yorba Linda, CA

Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:47 am

26point2 wrote:
The story has taken a strange twist. It was initially reported that the pilot was a retired Chicago policeman but his Police ID is fake and there is no record of him working for the Chicago Police.

http://abc7.com/oc-plane-crash-pilots-f ... p/5121959/

That is super weird. Also that article had a more clear video of the planes descent and it certainly burst into flames before hitting anything. I know there was a video previously that led us to believe that but you couldn’t quite tell from the other one if it hit a power line or a tree before being in flames. Definitely structural failure before impact. To be clear though not saying that is the cause of the crash. Could have just been the GForces.
Currently at PIE, requesting FWA >> >>
 
WayexTDI
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Re: Crash in Yorba Linda, CA

Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:36 am

747Whale wrote:
WayexTDI wrote:
Absolutely correct.

However, a lot of people on here (especially you) have enough knowledge to weed out through the numerous possibilities of such a crash to select a few most likely reasons.
All remains hypothetical of course until the official report is released.


I have enough technical knowledge and working knowledge to refrain from speculation in the absence of fact.

I've flown the 414 privately and under Part 135, and have instructed in it and been a check airman in it, so have some experience in the type. It doesn't give me any insight into what happened, however, in absence of fact.

I was just extending a friendship hand after the spat we had; thanks for deciding to ignore it...

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