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wnflyguy
Topic Author
Posts: 1659
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Updated: WN 8725 KOAK - PHNL She's on her way!

Fri Feb 01, 2019 10:33 pm

WN passed it's table top certification this week.
First Proving flight scheduled for Monday.

Using other airlines as examples VX released ticket sales the same day as it's first proving flight.

Will or will they be able to achievable the February 14 start date with a Expressed Fare sale.

Flyguy
Last edited by SQ22 on Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Title updated after merging threads
my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
 
cylw
Posts: 426
Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2000 2:34 pm

Re: WN and Hawaii.

Fri Feb 01, 2019 10:35 pm

Does the proving flight go all the way to Hawaii?
 
wnflyguy
Topic Author
Posts: 1659
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: WN and Hawaii.

Fri Feb 01, 2019 11:06 pm

cylw wrote:
Does the proving flight go all the way to Hawaii?

Yes I believe so then they do one or Two divisions
my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
 
tphuang
Posts: 2898
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: WN and Hawaii.

Sat Feb 02, 2019 1:07 am

I really hope this happens soon, at least before another possible gov't shutdown. Would be interesting to see how much they stimulate the market.
 
mga707
Posts: 164
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:52 am

Re: WN and Hawaii.

Sat Feb 02, 2019 1:11 am

wnflyguy wrote:
cylw wrote:
Does the proving flight go all the way to Hawaii?

Yes I believe so then they do one or Two divisions


Assume you meant to type 'diversions'?
 
barney captain
Posts: 2169
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 5:47 pm

Re: WN and Hawaii.

Sat Feb 02, 2019 1:17 am

wnflyguy wrote:
WN passed it's table top certification this week.
First Proving flight scheduled for Monday.

Using other airlines as examples VX released ticket sales the same day as it's first proving flight.

Will or will they be able to achievable the February 14 start date with a Expressed Fare sale.

Flyguy


Actually Tuesday. Start looking @ 7am local with a return the next day - also at departing @ 7am local. :)

Diversion flights are planned events, so no surprises. The first few flights are a simple over and back.
Southeast Of Disorder
 
itstimetofly
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2019 1:29 am

Re: WN and Hawaii.

Sat Feb 02, 2019 1:34 am

barney captain wrote:

Actually Tuesday. Start looking @ 7am local with a return the next day - also at departing @ 7am local. :)

Diversion flights are planned events, so no surprises. The first few flights are a simple over and back.


From where to where?
 
Rdh3e
Posts: 3500
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:09 pm

Re: WN and Hawaii.

Sat Feb 02, 2019 2:56 am

tphuang wrote:
I really hope this happens soon, at least before another possible gov't shutdown. Would be interesting to see how much they stimulate the market.

Likely they will stimulate close to zero. Fares to Hawaii are extremely low and the limiting factor is really hotel prices not airfare.
 
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usxguy
Posts: 1687
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 1:28 pm

Re: WN and Hawaii.

Sat Feb 02, 2019 3:00 am

and car rentals. Overbooking & having to wait an hour + is the norm, even for those with top tier status.

https://www.kitv.com/story/39822423/hun ... y-runs-out
xx
 
WNCrew
Posts: 977
Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2006 11:22 pm

Re: WN and Hawaii.

Sat Feb 02, 2019 3:06 am

usxguy wrote:
and car rentals. Overbooking & having to wait an hour + is the norm, even for those with top tier status.

https://www.kitv.com/story/39822423/hun ... y-runs-out



WOW... why does anyone bother flying there then if it's so awful?
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
cledaybuck
Posts: 1392
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2016 6:07 pm

Re: WN and Hawaii.

Sat Feb 02, 2019 3:10 am

WNCrew wrote:
usxguy wrote:
and car rentals. Overbooking & having to wait an hour + is the norm, even for those with top tier status.

https://www.kitv.com/story/39822423/hun ... y-runs-out



WOW... why does anyone bother flying there then if it's so awful?

Because it’s not the norm.
 
Jshank83
Posts: 2678
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: WN and Hawaii.

Sat Feb 02, 2019 3:42 am

itstimetofly wrote:
barney captain wrote:

Actually Tuesday. Start looking @ 7am local with a return the next day - also at departing @ 7am local. :)

Diversion flights are planned events, so no surprises. The first few flights are a simple over and back.


From where to where?


I heard OAK-HNL
 
hiflyeras
Posts: 1990
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 6:48 pm

Re: WN and Hawaii.

Sat Feb 02, 2019 4:25 am

Very exciting for WN! It's more than one or two proving flights though...keep an eye out this week and maybe the next.
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 13776
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: WN and Hawaii.

Sat Feb 02, 2019 4:46 am

cledaybuck wrote:
WNCrew wrote:
usxguy wrote:
and car rentals. Overbooking & having to wait an hour + is the norm, even for those with top tier status.

https://www.kitv.com/story/39822423/hun ... y-runs-out



WOW... why does anyone bother flying there then if it's so awful?

Because it’s not the norm.


Indeed not. I have top-tier rental car status (Hertz) and find Hawaii comparable to other beach destinations, which is different from high-volume heavily business travel (ATL or DFW) and also different from small airports. There are some rough facilities (I’m looking at you at least for now, OGG) but nothing really unusual.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
barney captain
Posts: 2169
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 5:47 pm

Re: WN and Hawaii.

Sat Feb 02, 2019 5:25 am

Jshank83 wrote:
itstimetofly wrote:
barney captain wrote:

Actually Tuesday. Start looking @ 7am local with a return the next day - also at departing @ 7am local. :)

Diversion flights are planned events, so no surprises. The first few flights are a simple over and back.


From where to where?


I heard OAK-HNL

My apologies, yes OAK-HNL
Southeast Of Disorder
 
Silver1SWA
Posts: 4560
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 6:11 pm

Re: WN and Hawaii.

Sat Feb 02, 2019 5:44 am

barney captain wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
WN passed it's table top certification this week.
First Proving flight scheduled for Monday.

Using other airlines as examples VX released ticket sales the same day as it's first proving flight.

Will or will they be able to achievable the February 14 start date with a Expressed Fare sale.

Flyguy


Actually Tuesday. Start looking @ 7am local with a return the next day - also at departing @ 7am local. :)

Diversion flights are planned events, so no surprises. The first few flights are a simple over and back.


Drat! My day off. ;)
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
friendlyskies22
Posts: 77
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 4:58 pm

Re: WN and Hawaii.

Sat Feb 02, 2019 5:46 am

stop knocking OGG...In April they will open a 4,000 vehicle rental car facility to handle the 2,500 rentals they do a day, more than HNL.
A mini train will run the few hundred yards to the ticketing and baggage claim areas, eliminating the Rental Car Busses. Now our Maui visitors can tell their friends back in Des Moines that they went on Planes, Trains & Automobiles!
 
wnflyguy
Topic Author
Posts: 1659
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: WN and Hawaii.

Sat Feb 02, 2019 6:47 am

barney captain wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
WN passed it's table top certification this week.
First Proving flight scheduled for Monday.

Using other airlines as examples VX released ticket sales the same day as it's first proving flight.

Will or will they be able to achievable the February 14 start date with a Expressed Fare sale.

Flyguy


Actually Tuesday. Start looking @ 7am local with a return the next day - also at departing @ 7am local. :)

Diversion flights are planned events, so no surprises. The first few flights are a simple over and back.


So maybe you could answer this.
According to sources the proving flights will be an actual online inbound ETOPS aircraft everyday this week starting Tuesday arriving from LAX at 07:00. The OAK ground crews will work the Turn as a real live ETOPS flight. Departure time said to be 0800-11:45 HNL (2hr turn) HNL 14:00-21:00 OAK.
And the bird will rotate back at 22:15 to LAX.
Wednesday the aircraft does an OAK-OGG-OAK.
Then Thursday it's OAK-HNL-OGG-OAK.
Friday and Saturday are planned diverts simulations.
I wonder if SJC,SMF or SAN will have to do a live ETOPS test flight?
For Inflight it's my understanding since ETOPS proving runs will not require any flight attendants since their procedures don't change from their normal routine.
Flyguy
Last edited by wnflyguy on Sat Feb 02, 2019 7:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
 
strfyr51
Posts: 3768
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

Re: WN and Hawaii.

Sat Feb 02, 2019 7:15 am

wnflyguy wrote:
barney captain wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
WN passed it's table top certification this week.
First Proving flight scheduled for Monday.

Using other airlines as examples VX released ticket sales the same day as it's first proving flight.

Will or will they be able to achievable the February 14 start date with a Expressed Fare sale.

Flyguy


Actually Tuesday. Start looking @ 7am local with a return the next day - also at departing @ 7am local. :)

Diversion flights are planned events, so no surprises. The first few flights are a simple over and back.


So maybe you could answer this.
According to sources the proving flights will be an actual online inbound ETOPS aircraft everyday this week starting Tuesday from LAX and OAK ground crews will have to work the Turn as a real live ETOPS flight. Departure time said to be 0800-11:45 (2hr turn) 14:00-21:00
And the bird will rotate back to LAX for the night
Wednesday the aircraft does an OAK-OGG-OAK.
Then Thursday it's OAK-HNL-OGG-OAK.
Friday and Saturday are planned diverts simulations.
I wonder if SJC,SMF or SAN will have e a live ETOPS test flight?
Flyguy

It depends on what information WN gives the FAA on their Intentions. They may not roll out all those stations at once..
 
wnflyguy
Topic Author
Posts: 1659
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: WN and Hawaii.

Sat Feb 02, 2019 7:21 am

strfyr51 wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
barney captain wrote:

Actually Tuesday. Start looking @ 7am local with a return the next day - also at departing @ 7am local. :)

Diversion flights are planned events, so no surprises. The first few flights are a simple over and back.


So maybe you could answer this.
According to sources the proving flights will be an actual online inbound ETOPS aircraft everyday this week starting Tuesday from LAX and OAK ground crews will have to work the Turn as a real live ETOPS flight. Departure time said to be 0800-11:45 (2hr turn) 14:00-21:00
And the bird will rotate back to LAX for the night
Wednesday the aircraft does an OAK-OGG-OAK.
Then Thursday it's OAK-HNL-OGG-OAK.
Friday and Saturday are planned diverts simulations.
I wonder if SJC,SMF or SAN will have e a live ETOPS test flight?
Flyguy

It depends on what information WN gives the FAA on their Intentions. They may not roll out all those stations at once..

Been rumored that first wave was called the Easy 8.
4 flights a day at both HNL and OGG until spring.
HNL/OGG each have 1 OAK,1 SJC, 1 SMF , 1 SAN.

Flyguy
my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
 
kiowa
Posts: 520
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 12:37 am

Re: WN and Hawaii.

Sat Feb 02, 2019 11:20 am

I am told they failed their table top certification last month. Does anyone know why?
 
WPvsMW
Posts: 2019
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:30 pm

Re: WN and Hawaii.

Sat Feb 02, 2019 12:14 pm

OAK-HNL-OGG-OAK.
That is almost as sensational as CONUS/HI.
And makes CONUS-OGG-HNL-CONUS a matter of time.
Fare war HNL/OGG?
Even if the same fare... a real mainline seat in Y on WN, not the VY FR U2 experience on HA's B712s.
 
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Eindhoven
Posts: 186
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Re: WN and Hawaii.

Sat Feb 02, 2019 12:23 pm

Rdh3e wrote:
tphuang wrote:
I really hope this happens soon, at least before another possible gov't shutdown. Would be interesting to see how much they stimulate the market.

Likely they will stimulate close to zero. Fares to Hawaii are extremely low and the limiting factor is really hotel prices not airfare.


Cheap? I've done a quick search, but over $ 300 return airfare from LAX is not cheap at all. Here in Europe FR flies NYO-TFS for $ 67 return which is even further than LAX-HNL.

Of course airfares are always more expensive in America, you won't find the ultra low European airfares anywhere in the USA. But you can't tell me $ 300 is cheap because it isn't.

And once the air fares to Hawaii are lowered people with less money to spend will come there. That leads to new business opportunities. So far hotel prices have always been outrageous but that can change. Only one person needs to see a business opportunity to set up cheaper hotels and they'll be packed to the brim each night while the expensive hotels are struggling to attract guests. The trick is that you make less money per guest but you can offset that to a higher number of guests.
 
joeblow10
Posts: 190
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:58 pm

Re: WN and Hawaii.

Sat Feb 02, 2019 2:08 pm

Eindhoven wrote:
Rdh3e wrote:
tphuang wrote:
I really hope this happens soon, at least before another possible gov't shutdown. Would be interesting to see how much they stimulate the market.

Likely they will stimulate close to zero. Fares to Hawaii are extremely low and the limiting factor is really hotel prices not airfare.


Cheap? I've done a quick search, but over $ 300 return airfare from LAX is not cheap at all. Here in Europe FR flies NYO-TFS for $ 67 return which is even further than LAX-HNL.

Of course airfares are always more expensive in America, you won't find the ultra low European airfares anywhere in the USA. But you can't tell me $ 300 is cheap because it isn't.

And once the air fares to Hawaii are lowered people with less money to spend will come there. That leads to new business opportunities. So far hotel prices have always been outrageous but that can change. Only one person needs to see a business opportunity to set up cheaper hotels and they'll be packed to the brim each night while the expensive hotels are struggling to attract guests. The trick is that you make less money per guest but you can offset that to a higher number of guests.


For a few months at the end of last year anything west coast to Hawaii was around $225-$250 if I recall. It may not be like the crazy fares in Europe, but it surely is the cheapest I’ve ever seen to Hawaii.

As somebody posted upthread, it’s hotels that are holding people back now. I think it’s fair to say at a $225 price point, most airlines are charging less than one night at a decent hotel or resort in Hawaii. Heck even the Courtyard at OGG wanted $300 from me last year
 
barney captain
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Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 5:47 pm

Re: WN and Hawaii.

Sat Feb 02, 2019 2:17 pm

kiowa wrote:
I am told they failed their table top certification last month. Does anyone know why?


You were told incorrectly because the government was shut down last month. There were no table top exercises until this past week.
Southeast Of Disorder
 
Bobloblaw
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Re: WN and Hawaii.

Sat Feb 02, 2019 2:25 pm

How much taxes are on top of that $67 NYO-TFS fare?
 
kiowa
Posts: 520
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 12:37 am

Re: WN and Hawaii.

Sat Feb 02, 2019 2:40 pm

barney captain wrote:
kiowa wrote:
I am told they failed their table top certification last month. Does anyone know why?


You were told incorrectly because the government was shut down last month. There were no table top exercises until this past week.


One of us is wrong. My source is good.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: WN and Hawaii.

Sat Feb 02, 2019 2:42 pm

Bobloblaw wrote:
How much taxes are on top of that $67 NYO-TFS fare?


None. Fares in Europe are always including taxes, so if it's advertised for a certain price you actually get to fly for that price. Any additional taxes and fees that aren't optional are illegal.
 
BravoOne
Posts: 3356
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:27 pm

Re: WN and Hawaii.

Sat Feb 02, 2019 2:47 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
barney captain wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
WN passed it's table top certification this week.
First Proving flight scheduled for Monday.

Using other airlines as examples VX released ticket sales the same day as it's first proving flight.

Will or will they be able to achievable the February 14 start date with a Expressed Fare sale.

Flyguy


Actually Tuesday. Start looking @ 7am local with a return the next day - also at departing @ 7am local. :)

Diversion flights are planned events, so no surprises. The first few flights are a simple over and back.


So maybe you could answer this.
According to sources the proving flights will be an actual online inbound ETOPS aircraft everyday this week starting Tuesday arriving from LAX at 07:00. The OAK ground crews will work the Turn as a real live ETOPS flight. Departure time said to be 0800-11:45 HNL (2hr turn) HNL 14:00-21:00 OAK.
And the bird will rotate back at 22:15 to LAX.
Wednesday the aircraft does an OAK-OGG-OAK.
Then Thursday it's OAK-HNL-OGG-OAK.
Friday and Saturday are planned diverts simulations.
I wonder if SJC,SMF or SAN will have to do a live ETOPS test flight?
For Inflight it's my understanding since ETOPS proving runs will not require any flight attendants since their procedures don't change from their normal routine.
Flyguy


I would imagine there would be a full cabin crew. The two ETOPS cert flight I have been had an FAA Cabin Safety inspector on board and work the tails off the FA's what with, ditching preperations and medical emergencies. I think there was more work in the cabin than on the flight deck.

Probably have a FAA contingent of:

Principal Maint Inspector
Principal Ops Inspector
Principal Avionics Inspector
International Operations Inspector (SFO Field Office) Probably conducted that table top exercise)

Most likely would Maint. staff standing by at the ETOPS alternates as well.
 
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SteveXC500
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Re: WN and Hawaii.

Sat Feb 02, 2019 4:56 pm

Rdh3e wrote:
tphuang wrote:
I really hope this happens soon, at least before another possible gov't shutdown. Would be interesting to see how much they stimulate the market.

Likely they will stimulate close to zero. Fares to Hawaii are extremely low and the limiting factor is really hotel prices not airfare.


Fares are extremely low? I think you should explain this more. Fares are low from the west coast, yes.
Try ex-MSP...over $1,000
 
MrBretz
Posts: 314
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2016 9:13 pm

Re: WN and Hawaii.

Sat Feb 02, 2019 5:08 pm

I got a couple of those cheap airfares from LAX to KOA early last December. I booked it about a month ahead. When UA’s website said it was $300, I thought it was 1 way. But, no, it was RT. I have to fess up: we sprung for premium economy which added about $200 RT to the ticket. On the way out, the plane was maybe 1/3 full. The return around the middle of Dec was about 3/4 full. Hotel prices and cars are pricey.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 5210
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: WN and Hawaii.

Sat Feb 02, 2019 5:11 pm

Eindhoven wrote:
Rdh3e wrote:
tphuang wrote:
I really hope this happens soon, at least before another possible gov't shutdown. Would be interesting to see how much they stimulate the market.

Likely they will stimulate close to zero. Fares to Hawaii are extremely low and the limiting factor is really hotel prices not airfare.


Cheap? I've done a quick search, but over $ 300 return airfare from LAX is not cheap at all. Here in Europe FR flies NYO-TFS for $ 67 return which is even further than LAX-HNL.

Of course airfares are always more expensive in America, you won't find the ultra low European airfares anywhere in the USA. But you can't tell me $ 300 is cheap because it isn't.

And once the air fares to Hawaii are lowered people with less money to spend will come there. That leads to new business opportunities. So far hotel prices have always been outrageous but that can change. Only one person needs to see a business opportunity to set up cheaper hotels and they'll be packed to the brim each night while the expensive hotels are struggling to attract guests. The trick is that you make less money per guest but you can offset that to a higher number of guests.


I don't think you get it. Intra-Europe fare comparisons aren't relevant to domestic U.S. fares - European ULCCs can't compete in the market. A $300 fare is cheap given the distance, and compared to other distance-adjusted domestic fares. Carriers can't make money at an average of less than $0.08/mile - not even Spirit, which is regularly pilloried in this forum for its ghastly cheap & tight experience.

Hawaii doesn't want a lot of cheap hotels. The infrastructure - Waikiki Beach, local transport - can't handle it. It's a quality of life issue. Lodging - at 41% of visitor spending - is the largest single component of visitor spending. It's twice what visitors spend on food and beverage.
 
RJNUT
Posts: 1764
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 1999 1:58 am

Re: WN and Hawaii.

Sat Feb 02, 2019 5:21 pm

I don't believe there will be any "WN effect" in this market. The already established carriers will squeeze HARD to create difficulties for WN.. This may not have the Midas touch they have become so accustomed to.
 
26point2
Posts: 1054
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2010 6:01 am

Re: WN and Hawaii.

Sat Feb 02, 2019 5:22 pm

I’m surprised HA is going to single aisle Airbus on these same routes they will be competing with WN. I prefer the larger A330 for flights 5+ hours and HA had this advantage but is giving it up? Seems to me HA would have attracted customers like me who don’t want to fly in a 737/A320. Perhaps I’m an anomaly.
 
ncflyer
Posts: 1133
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2000 7:03 pm

Re: WN and Hawaii.

Sat Feb 02, 2019 5:34 pm

Anyone know load factors to Hawaii? I suspect they are nothing to write home about, in other words how much stimulating is left to be done with steep prices onceon the islands. Even FF miles are easy to redeem outside of school break periods, at least that’s my experience. I can’t find the article anymore but I could have sworn I read Hawaii just hit record 10mm visitors on 13mm seats. 77% if I’m remembering correctly. Meeeeh.
 
7673mech
Posts: 522
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2004 10:10 am

Re: WN and Hawaii.

Sat Feb 02, 2019 5:38 pm

26point2 wrote:
I’m surprised HA is going to single aisle Airbus on these same routes they will be competing with WN. I prefer the larger A330 for flights 5+ hours and HA had this advantage but is giving it up? Seems to me HA would have attracted customers like me who don’t want to fly in a 737/A320. Perhaps I’m an anomaly.


You may lose widebody, but you still get hot food and cabin crew with the Aloha spirit.
6 hours single aisle is not that bad with awesome service.
 
7673mech
Posts: 522
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2004 10:10 am

Re: WN and Hawaii.

Sat Feb 02, 2019 5:40 pm

kiowa wrote:
barney captain wrote:
kiowa wrote:
I am told they failed their table top certification last month. Does anyone know why?


You were told incorrectly because the government was shut down last month. There were no table top exercises until this past week.


One of us is wrong. My source is good.


There was a big scramble on the maintenance side to complete some training. This was FAA driven.
 
MrBretz
Posts: 314
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2016 9:13 pm

Re: WN and Hawaii.

Sat Feb 02, 2019 5:43 pm

The one problem I see with WNs model is the lack of assigned seating. The flight to Hawaii can approach 6 hours. That’s a long way to fly on vacation not being guaranteed seating next to family or friends. It’s not an obstacle on much shorter mainland flights but on these longer leisure flights, I see resistance. I heard a couple who lives there discussing this recently. The man was talking about potentially cheap fares to the mainland. The woman said there was no way she was flying on a cattle car not possibly being able to sit next to her husband. I know who will win that argument.
 
azjubilee
Posts: 3705
Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2000 5:26 am

Re: WN and Hawaii.

Sat Feb 02, 2019 5:54 pm

26point2 wrote:
I’m surprised HA is going to single aisle Airbus on these same routes they will be competing with WN. I prefer the larger A330 for flights 5+ hours and HA had this advantage but is giving it up? Seems to me HA would have attracted customers like me who don’t want to fly in a 737/A320. Perhaps I’m an anomaly.


There are still 330s on many of the west-coast routes, but you're right, the ones that Southwest will be competing on, will be mostly 321neo's. While there will be the loss of perhaps a very slight advantage, the vast majority of the competition are flying narrowbodies too. On top of that, the 321neo has lower operating costs than the 330, despite having fewer seats. That will be key when Southwest comes and has unsustainable intro fares and everyone will be forced to match.
 
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TWA772LR
Posts: 6696
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:12 am

Re: WN and Hawaii.

Sat Feb 02, 2019 5:56 pm

MrBretz wrote:
The one problem I see with WNs model is the lack of assigned seating. The flight to Hawaii can approach 6 hours. That’s a long way to fly on vacation not being guaranteed seating next to family or friends. It’s not an obstacle on much shorter mainland flights but on these longer leisure flights, I see resistance. I heard a couple who lives there discussing this recently. The man was talking about potentially cheap fares to the mainland. The woman said there was no way she was flying on a cattle car not possibly being able to sit next to her husband. I know who will win that argument.

The travelling public does know about WNs Early Bird purchases to get a higher position and there are signs at every WN gate about upgrading into A1-A15 while supplies last. Due to the stage lengths, Southwest probably knows they'll make a killing on these services alone, it's their form of ancillary fees, and it works.
When wasn't America great?


The thoughts and opinions shared under this username are mine and are not influenced by my employer.
 
bob75013
Posts: 743
Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2015 5:05 pm

Re: WN and Hawaii.

Sat Feb 02, 2019 6:02 pm

MrBretz wrote:
The one problem I see with WNs model is the lack of assigned seating. . I heard a couple who lives there discussing this recently. The man was talking about potentially cheap fares to the mainland. The woman said there was no way she was flying on a cattle car not possibly being able to sit next to her husband. .



Yup that's been going on for almost 50 years, and during that time WN grew to be the biggest in North America.

Move along son. There's nothing to see here.
 
MrBretz
Posts: 314
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2016 9:13 pm

Re: WN and Hawaii.

Sat Feb 02, 2019 6:05 pm

TWA772LR wrote:
MrBretz wrote:
The one problem I see with WNs model is the lack of assigned seating. The flight to Hawaii can approach 6 hours. That’s a long way to fly on vacation not being guaranteed seating next to family or friends. It’s not an obstacle on much shorter mainland flights but on these longer leisure flights, I see resistance. I heard a couple who lives there discussing this recently. The man was talking about potentially cheap fares to the mainland. The woman said there was no way she was flying on a cattle car not possibly being able to sit next to her husband. I know who will win that argument.

The travelling public does know about WNs Early Bird purchases to get a higher position and there are signs at every WN gate about upgrading into A1-A15 while supplies last. Due to the stage lengths, Southwest probably knows they'll make a killing on these services alone, it's their form of ancillary fees, and it works.


What you say is totally true. But there are limits to getting on early. And if you can't/don't upgrade, 2/3s of the plane will be in B or C spots. That's lots or friends/families possibly sweating it out. And, generally, you have friends/family with you on vacation. On the other hand, there is no baggage fee. I will stick with UA or HA.

Here is an interesting quote from WNs website: "There is no limit to the number of passengers that can purchase Early Bird check-in. Based on the rules for assigning boarding passes, if there are enough A-List travelers and people buying Early Bird check-in, you could still end up in Boarding Group C. That situation is highly unlikely, but it is possible." Try telling that to my other half.
Last edited by MrBretz on Sat Feb 02, 2019 6:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
smflyer
Posts: 141
Joined: Tue May 01, 2018 4:44 pm

Re: WN and Hawaii.

Sat Feb 02, 2019 6:06 pm

26point2 wrote:
I’m surprised HA is going to single aisle Airbus on these same routes they will be competing with WN. I prefer the larger A330 for flights 5+ hours and HA had this advantage but is giving it up? Seems to me HA would have attracted customers like me who don’t want to fly in a 737/A320. Perhaps I’m an anomaly.


I think its hard to argue that an economy seat in an A330 is materially better than a seat in a 737/320 aircraft with the normal traveller. Seat pitch and seat width are more or less the same on both aircraft. For the vast majority of passengers seeking to have a better in flight experience, the first consideration is to look at the extra leg room economy seats, not the aircraft type.

HA's source of attraction/loyalty with passengers is their overall flight experience, not the aircraft type. If you ask a normal passenger what they think about HA vs WN, they will more likely than not describe the experience with the airline as function of the quality of service received, not on the aircraft type the airline flies.
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 13776
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: WN and Hawaii.

Sat Feb 02, 2019 6:25 pm

smflyer wrote:
26point2 wrote:
I’m surprised HA is going to single aisle Airbus on these same routes they will be competing with WN. I prefer the larger A330 for flights 5+ hours and HA had this advantage but is giving it up? Seems to me HA would have attracted customers like me who don’t want to fly in a 737/A320. Perhaps I’m an anomaly.


I think its hard to argue that an economy seat in an A330 is materially better than a seat in a 737/320 aircraft with the normal traveller. Seat pitch and seat width are more or less the same on both aircraft. For the vast majority of passengers seeking to have a better in flight experience, the first consideration is to look at the extra leg room economy seats, not the aircraft type.

HA's source of attraction/loyalty with passengers is their overall flight experience, not the aircraft type. If you ask a normal passenger what they think about HA vs WN, they will more likely than not describe the experience with the airline as function of the quality of service received, not on the aircraft type the airline flies.


It’s not so much the space at/in the seat but rather the additional circulation space and lavs that larger aircraft have. Many of us - especially those with kids - don’t spend the whole flight in our seats.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
airlineaddict
Posts: 346
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 12:37 pm

Re: WN and Hawaii.

Sat Feb 02, 2019 6:38 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
cledaybuck wrote:
WNCrew wrote:


WOW... why does anyone bother flying there then if it's so awful?

Because it’s not the norm.


Indeed not. I have top-tier rental car status (Hertz) and find Hawaii comparable to other beach destinations, which is different from high-volume heavily business travel (ATL or DFW) and also different from small airports. There are some rough facilities (I’m looking at you at least for now, OGG) but nothing really unusual.


Just got back from OGG. Happy to report that a consolidated rental car facility was close to being done. They were testing the trolleys to and from the rental car center a few weeks ago.
 
Silver1SWA
Posts: 4560
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 6:11 pm

Re: WN and Hawaii.

Sat Feb 02, 2019 6:50 pm

kiowa wrote:
barney captain wrote:
kiowa wrote:
I am told they failed their table top certification last month. Does anyone know why?


You were told incorrectly because the government was shut down last month. There were no table top exercises until this past week.


One of us is wrong. My source is good.


I’m not aware of anything being done after the manuals were approved right before the shutdown until this week when the FAA resumed activities. My understanding is that the tabletop excercise earlier this week went well.

I’ve been in HNL two weeks now. The first week was a lot of wait and see, nothing going on etc. This week, with the government back up and running it’s been okay let’s go, it’s game time! Prepare as if that first plane could arrive at any moment.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 13776
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: WN and Hawaii.

Sat Feb 02, 2019 6:51 pm

airlineaddict wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
cledaybuck wrote:
Because it’s not the norm.


Indeed not. I have top-tier rental car status (Hertz) and find Hawaii comparable to other beach destinations, which is different from high-volume heavily business travel (ATL or DFW) and also different from small airports. There are some rough facilities (I’m looking at you at least for now, OGG) but nothing really unusual.


Just got back from OGG. Happy to report that a consolidated rental car facility was close to being done. They were testing the trolleys to and from the rental car center a few weeks ago.


That’s good news. OGG is dated, but aside from the present rental car situation the passenger experience is pretty streamlined - much more like LIH or KOA than HNL despite handling many more passengers than the other neighbor island airports.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
Jshank83
Posts: 2678
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: WN and Hawaii.

Sat Feb 02, 2019 7:54 pm

MrBretz wrote:
The one problem I see with WNs model is the lack of assigned seating. . I heard a couple who lives there discussing this recently. The man was talking about potentially cheap fares to the mainland. The woman said there was no way she was flying on a cattle car not possibly being able to sit next to her husband. .



You have to pay more for assigned seating on legacys now so it basically the same thing as buying early bird.
 
User avatar
usxguy
Posts: 1687
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 1:28 pm

Re: WN and Hawaii.

Sat Feb 02, 2019 7:58 pm

WNCrew wrote:
usxguy wrote:
and car rentals. Overbooking & having to wait an hour + is the norm, even for those with top tier status.

https://www.kitv.com/story/39822423/hun ... y-runs-out



WOW... why does anyone bother flying there then if it's so awful?


Suggesting market plateaus.

when American Airlines has 5 flights linking LA and Maui over christmas, but only flew enough passengers over multiple days to fill only ONE plane (both ways, mind you), then the market may have hit its plateau... a coworker flew OGG-ORD and there were 10 passengers in first and 25 in back on a *777*. Even my Air Canada flight to YVR (on Max!) had 70 open seats, and this was just before NYE.

So yes, WN is going to do *GANGBUSTERS* in Hawai'i. Yes, they will have absolutely FULL FULL FULL planes. /sarcasm.

The only thing Southwest will do is make it easier to non-rev to Honolulu. The market from the US has hit its peak, and the economy is slowing down.
xx
 
User avatar
compensateme
Posts: 3280
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:17 am

Re: WN and Hawaii.

Sat Feb 02, 2019 8:39 pm

usxguy wrote:
WNCrew wrote:
usxguy wrote:
and car rentals. Overbooking & having to wait an hour + is the norm, even for those with top tier status.

https://www.kitv.com/story/39822423/hun ... y-runs-out



WOW... why does anyone bother flying there then if it's so awful?


Suggesting market plateaus.

when American Airlines has 5 flights linking LA and Maui over christmas, but only flew enough passengers over multiple days to fill only ONE plane (both ways, mind you), then the market may have hit its plateau... a coworker flew OGG-ORD and there were 10 passengers in first and 25 in back on a *777*. Even my Air Canada flight to YVR (on Max!) had 70 open seats, and this was just before NYE.

So yes, WN is going to do *GANGBUSTERS* in Hawai'i. Yes, they will have absolutely FULL FULL FULL planes. /sarcasm.

The only thing Southwest will do is make it easier to non-rev to Honolulu. The market from the US has hit its peak, and the economy is slowing down.


Average load factors remain high, and domestic visitors to Hawaii increased a whopping 8.4% last year, so Hawaii is a pretty strong growth market. Sounds like you’re basing your opinion off of bad information, since I can virtually guarantee you that AA and UA didn’t operate over the Holidays with a LF of less than 10%. LF to Hawaii even during the slowest travel periods are respectable, since the legacies will release dozens of the “cheapest” reward seats, and buddy passers count on those days to “guarantee” themselves flights.

That said, it sounds like WN is placing a big bet on Hawaii, so it wouldn’t be surprising if WN ultimately ends up taking capacity away from its competition. But with a strong FF base in California (lots of RR to burn) and a product that will be stronger than most of its competitors (two checked bags, upgraded food and beverage service and enhanced IFE), I expect that WN will be successful in the market.
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