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airplaneboy
Posts: 674
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 11:59 am

Re: Updated: WN 8725 KOAK - PHNL She's on her way!

Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:15 am

MrBretz wrote:
I guess we will have to see if the lack of seat assignments causes anyone an issue. If I were by myself, it would not be an issue. If I were flying with 2 or 3 kids, it would be an issue. If it’s just 2 of us, it’s probably not an issue. I do wish WN the best. I fly them whenever I can on the mainland.


As this is an issue in Orlando, where DisneyWorld is located (you know, the place where many families with small children travel to...) and WN has had the largest marketshare for years ((sarcasm))
 
planecane
Posts: 843
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2017 4:58 pm

Re: WN and Hawaii.

Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:03 am

drerx7 wrote:
planecane wrote:
MrBretz wrote:
The one problem I see with WNs model is the lack of assigned seating. The flight to Hawaii can approach 6 hours. That’s a long way to fly on vacation not being guaranteed seating next to family or friends. It’s not an obstacle on much shorter mainland flights but on these longer leisure flights, I see resistance. I heard a couple who lives there discussing this recently. The man was talking about potentially cheap fares to the mainland. The woman said there was no way she was flying on a cattle car not possibly being able to sit next to her husband. I know who will win that argument.

This would keep me from flying WN to Hawaii unless the cost for business select was not too much more than flying an airline with assigned seats plus baggage fees. I'll fly WN on 2-3 hr trips because if I don't get to sit next to my wife it won't be the end of the world. 6 hrs is past the limit for me.

If WN ever went to assigned seats (even if they charged for assignment and people that don't want to pay board last first come first served) they'd be the perfect airline. I will say that the boarding process is noticably faster on WN than any other airline.

Is this really a thing? I've flown WN for decades and have never ever had an issue not being able to sit with friends or family. I suppose it can happen if folks are amongst the last to board...but that isn't a constant. If a half way concerted effort is made to sit with your friends or family...this will be a non-issue.

I'll say I've never actually had an issue flying FLL to mostly BWI, MDW and LAS non stop. However the stress of the possibility on LAS is always there even in group B due to the 57 people in family boarding. BWI and MDW are short enough that if I was separated from my wife it wouldn't be the end of the world.
 
BravoOne
Posts: 3356
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:27 pm

Re: WN and Hawaii.

Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:41 am

777Mech wrote:
BravoOne wrote:
Again, I do not see them doing any validations flights without the cabin fully staffed and maybe 40 to fifty seat fillers for he FA's to work with. Probably at least one in flight medical emergency along a cabin prep for ditching exercise. I assume (?) SW has done some special FA training for this kind of in flight. Might not be much medical, but the cabin prep for ditching can be significant. Don't know but I doubt that SWA has a cabin ditching sim?

An example of FAA oversight. North America to EGLL on a 777 ETOPS validation flight. Diverted into EINN and the engine required a bore scope for a further service sign off. No 777/RR bore scope tool could be found, and the airline had to charter an airplane and ferry one over to EINN from EGLL so as to pass the validation process. These FAA folks have a wicked imagination at times and if it's the FAA guy I'm thinking of, he will give you fits before it's over. Expect the unexpected best describes how this works.


The FAA will not allow pax on any validation flights. The FA training/certification is satisfied in yearly quals.



Sorry but your dead wrong as I have flown two 777 ETOPS validation flight with "Pax" in the aircraft. I think perhaps my wording is/was misleading as the passengers in this case were actual employees of the airline, not paying passengers trying to get to their destinations, as that would be cruel.

Sort of like evacuation drills, if you like. There has be someone in the cabin for there to be the necessary crew interaction. Having said that anything could be possible in the case of SWA validation flights.
 
mcdu
Posts: 1496
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:23 am

Re: Updated: WN 8725 KOAK - PHNL She's on her way!

Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:00 pm

airplaneboy wrote:
MrBretz wrote:
I guess we will have to see if the lack of seat assignments causes anyone an issue. If I were by myself, it would not be an issue. If I were flying with 2 or 3 kids, it would be an issue. If it’s just 2 of us, it’s probably not an issue. I do wish WN the best. I fly them whenever I can on the mainland.


As this is an issue in Orlando, where DisneyWorld is located (you know, the place where many families with small children travel to...) and WN has had the largest marketshare for years ((sarcasm))


Except MCO is a pure price market and the flights are relative short for WN to and from MCO vs HI. The Hawaii customer is different than the MCO crowd. The trip to Hawaii may be their only trip there in a lifetime.

WN is going to need to evolve on the service end to do well in HI markets.
 
mcdu
Posts: 1496
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:23 am

Re: Updated: WN 8725 KOAK - PHNL She's on her way!

Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:05 pm

Sancho99504 wrote:
How can people go thru life being so negative? All of us that are excited about WN landing in HNL, aren't excited because they did it with a 737 model that has been flying to the islands for 10+ years, but because it is a new airline!


WN isn’t a new airline. There have been airlines younger than WN get into the HI market. Doing something 20 years after it was first accomplished is not something to rave about. Goodness gracious you would think they landed on the moon.

I just hope their pilots understand the rules of Class II and oceanic airspace. There are no short cuts and you have to fly the assigned Mach number. Leave your cowboy boots and hats in the closet. This is not something to take lightly.
 
cledaybuck
Posts: 1387
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2016 6:07 pm

Re: WN and Hawaii.

Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:23 pm

drerx7 wrote:
planecane wrote:
MrBretz wrote:
The one problem I see with WNs model is the lack of assigned seating. The flight to Hawaii can approach 6 hours. That’s a long way to fly on vacation not being guaranteed seating next to family or friends. It’s not an obstacle on much shorter mainland flights but on these longer leisure flights, I see resistance. I heard a couple who lives there discussing this recently. The man was talking about potentially cheap fares to the mainland. The woman said there was no way she was flying on a cattle car not possibly being able to sit next to her husband. I know who will win that argument.

This would keep me from flying WN to Hawaii unless the cost for business select was not too much more than flying an airline with assigned seats plus baggage fees. I'll fly WN on 2-3 hr trips because if I don't get to sit next to my wife it won't be the end of the world. 6 hrs is past the limit for me.

If WN ever went to assigned seats (even if they charged for assignment and people that don't want to pay board last first come first served) they'd be the perfect airline. I will say that the boarding process is noticably faster on WN than any other airline.

Is this really a thing? I've flown WN for decades and have never ever had an issue not being able to sit with friends or family. I suppose it can happen if folks are amongst the last to board...but that isn't a constant. If a half way concerted effort is made to sit with your friends or family...this will be a non-issue.
I don't get it either, but it certainly is a thing. Read flyertalk sometime, and you will see the amount of obsessing about seats (and not just on WN) is crazy, especially for an airline that only has economy.
 
cledaybuck
Posts: 1387
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2016 6:07 pm

Re: Updated: WN 8725 KOAK - PHNL She's on her way!

Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:24 pm

mcdu wrote:
airplaneboy wrote:
MrBretz wrote:
I guess we will have to see if the lack of seat assignments causes anyone an issue. If I were by myself, it would not be an issue. If I were flying with 2 or 3 kids, it would be an issue. If it’s just 2 of us, it’s probably not an issue. I do wish WN the best. I fly them whenever I can on the mainland.


As this is an issue in Orlando, where DisneyWorld is located (you know, the place where many families with small children travel to...) and WN has had the largest marketshare for years ((sarcasm))


Except MCO is a pure price market and the flights are relative short for WN to and from MCO vs HI. The Hawaii customer is different than the MCO crowd. The trip to Hawaii may be their only trip there in a lifetime.

WN is going to need to evolve on the service end to do well in HI markets.
I'm failing to see how the WN product is all that much different than AS, who seems to just fine to the islands.
 
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drerx7
Posts: 4371
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2000 12:19 am

Re: WN and Hawaii.

Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:36 pm

cledaybuck wrote:
drerx7 wrote:
planecane wrote:
This would keep me from flying WN to Hawaii unless the cost for business select was not too much more than flying an airline with assigned seats plus baggage fees. I'll fly WN on 2-3 hr trips because if I don't get to sit next to my wife it won't be the end of the world. 6 hrs is past the limit for me.

If WN ever went to assigned seats (even if they charged for assignment and people that don't want to pay board last first come first served) they'd be the perfect airline. I will say that the boarding process is noticably faster on WN than any other airline.

Is this really a thing? I've flown WN for decades and have never ever had an issue not being able to sit with friends or family. I suppose it can happen if folks are amongst the last to board...but that isn't a constant. If a half way concerted effort is made to sit with your friends or family...this will be a non-issue.
I don't get it either, but it certainly is a thing. Read flyertalk sometime, and you will see the amount of obsessing about seats (and not just on WN) is crazy, especially for an airline that only has economy.

Gotcha, its astounding. The only questions I have with WN to Hawaii are the flight times since they historically dont do redeye's and of there will be any marginal service enhancements. I think they will do fine in the market overall.
HOUSTON, TEXAS
 
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BWIAirport
Posts: 740
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2016 10:29 pm

Re: Updated: WN 8725 KOAK - PHNL She's on her way!

Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:50 pm

When does N8329B head back? Flightradar24 doesn't have any filed flights until DAL-AUS tomorrow.
Next flight: August 1: WN2002 BWI-MSY B737
SWA, UAL, DAL, AWE, ASA, TRS, DLH, CLH, AFR, BAW, EIN, AAL | E190 DC94 CRJ2 B712 B733 B737 B738 B739 B744 B752 B753 B762 B77W A319 A320 A321 A333 A343 A388 MD88
 
san88
Posts: 108
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2006 3:30 am

Re: Updated: WN 8725 KOAK - PHNL She's on her way!

Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:56 pm

BWIAirport wrote:
When does N8329B head back? Flightradar24 doesn't have any filed flights until DAL-AUS tomorrow.


WN 8725 is scheduled to depart at 9am local HNL - DAL.
sit on the Captain side when you fly into SAN
 
san88
Posts: 108
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2006 3:30 am

Re: WN and Hawaii.

Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:07 pm

drerx7 wrote:
cledaybuck wrote:
drerx7 wrote:
Is this really a thing? I've flown WN for decades and have never ever had an issue not being able to sit with friends or family. I suppose it can happen if folks are amongst the last to board...but that isn't a constant. If a half way concerted effort is made to sit with your friends or family...this will be a non-issue.
I don't get it either, but it certainly is a thing. Read flyertalk sometime, and you will see the amount of obsessing about seats (and not just on WN) is crazy, especially for an airline that only has economy.

Gotcha, its astounding. The only questions I have with WN to Hawaii are the flight times since they historically dont do redeye's and of there will be any marginal service enhancements. I think they will do fine in the market overall.


Rumor has it WN will offer elevated snack service specific to long haul Hawaii routes, as well as limited inter-island beverage / snack service.
sit on the Captain side when you fly into SAN
 
hiflyeras
Posts: 1988
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 6:48 pm

Re: Updated: WN 8725 KOAK - PHNL She's on her way!

Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:46 pm

cledaybuck wrote:
I'm failing to see how the WN product is all that much different than AS, who seems to just fine to the islands.


AS has assigned seats, premium economy, first class, power at every seat (AC and USB), multiple meal and snack options, mileage redemption with over a dozen airlines worldwide, Satellite wi-fi with over-ocean and streaming capability for customers currently being installed.

Both have free streamed entertainment. AS has hundreds of free movies.

SW has free checked luggage (to a point). Anything I'm missing?
 
arcticcruiser
Posts: 353
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2017 2:16 pm

Re: Updated: WN 8725 KOAK - PHNL She's on her way!

Wed Feb 06, 2019 4:23 pm

So a 737 flew from California to Hawaii... I am sure we are all gonna remember where we were when we heard about it...
 
INFINITI329
Posts: 2429
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:53 am

Re: Updated: WN 8725 KOAK - PHNL She's on her way!

Wed Feb 06, 2019 4:31 pm

MrBretz wrote:
Let me repost what I found on SWA website about early bird check in:

"There is no limit to the number of passengers that can purchase Early Bird check-in. Based on the rules for assigning boarding passes, if there are enough A-List travelers and people buying Early Bird check-in, you could still end up in Boarding Group C. That situation is highly unlikely, but it is possible."


This happens more than people realize. If you have over 30 business select fares and/or enough people who decide to upgrade their boarding position then you're possibly already in the B group. Then you have to compete with the other "early birds". Depending on the flight early bird can be a waste. Boarding anytime after family boarding the chance you'll be separated from your party increases.
 
cledaybuck
Posts: 1387
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2016 6:07 pm

Re: Updated: WN 8725 KOAK - PHNL She's on her way!

Wed Feb 06, 2019 4:36 pm

hiflyeras wrote:
cledaybuck wrote:
I'm failing to see how the WN product is all that much different than AS, who seems to just fine to the islands.


AS has assigned seats, premium economy, first class, power at every seat (AC and USB), multiple meal and snack options, mileage redemption with over a dozen airlines worldwide, Satellite wi-fi with over-ocean and streaming capability for customers currently being installed.

Both have free streamed entertainment. AS has hundreds of free movies.

SW has free checked luggage (to a point). Anything I'm missing?
No change fees.
Maybe there are a few more differences than I made it sound like. However, my personal experience was very similar flying these two airlines last summer (CMH-OAK then OAK-OGG). I didn't have an assigned seat on WN and I paid for my bags on AS, but other than that virtually identical. I sat in a coach seat on a 737 for several hours and occasionally streamed something to my ipad (AS's movie selection was nice). The flight attendants came around and offered drinks. Ironically, I paid for both with points transferred from UR. They flights were much more similar than they were different. Of course, that is just my perspective. And if you are in F, it is different, but you were probably never flying WN anyway.
 
ScottB
Posts: 6551
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

Re: Updated: WN 8725 KOAK - PHNL She's on her way!

Wed Feb 06, 2019 4:46 pm

mcdu wrote:
Except MCO is a pure price market and the flights are relative short for WN to and from MCO vs HI. The Hawaii customer is different than the MCO crowd. The trip to Hawaii may be their only trip there in a lifetime.

WN is going to need to evolve on the service end to do well in HI markets.


But wait, half the people in this thread claim that fares to Hawai'i are already super-low. Are you saying that's not true and that it's not a price-driven market?

We also have numerous claims that customers are already loyal to HA and AS and have their credit cards for the free checked bags -- are these the customers taking once-in-a-lifetime trips?

Carriers like UA have "evolved" their service to Hawai'i so that it's basically identical to what WN offers on a flight like DAL-HOU or LAX-OAK -- a non-alcoholic beverage and a bag of snack mix/pretzels -- except that UA offers snack boxes and meals for an additional upcharge. But apparently WN plans to offer complimentary snack boxes on the Hawai'i flights which will likely be comparable to what's available on UA for the bargain price of $9.59.

hiflyeras wrote:
AS has assigned seats, premium economy, first class, power at every seat (AC and USB), multiple meal and snack options, mileage redemption with over a dozen airlines worldwide, Satellite wi-fi with over-ocean and streaming capability for customers currently being installed.


And most of these things carry an extra charge. Not every passenger wants to be nickled and dimed on their way to or from their vacation.
 
cledaybuck
Posts: 1387
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2016 6:07 pm

Re: Updated: WN 8725 KOAK - PHNL She's on her way!

Wed Feb 06, 2019 4:47 pm

INFINITI329 wrote:
MrBretz wrote:
Let me repost what I found on SWA website about early bird check in:

"There is no limit to the number of passengers that can purchase Early Bird check-in. Based on the rules for assigning boarding passes, if there are enough A-List travelers and people buying Early Bird check-in, you could still end up in Boarding Group C. That situation is highly unlikely, but it is possible."


This happens more than people realize. If you have over 30 business select fares and/or enough people who decide to upgrade their boarding position then you're possibly already in the B group. Then you have to compete with the other "early birds". Depending on the flight early bird can be a waste. Boarding anytime after family boarding the chance you'll be separated from your party increases.
No it doesn't. There are only 15 BS fares sold per flight. You do have A listers who could push the beginning of early bird to B, but usually it is in A. I think early bird is almost always a waste. All the seats are economy! If you check in at T-24, you will be able to sit with your group probably 90% of the time. If a seat assignment is that important to you, you shouldn't be flying WN. Just know that other airlines don't guarantee those seats you have been assigned either.
 
maps4ltd
Posts: 267
Joined: Tue May 08, 2018 4:48 pm

Re: WN and Hawaii.

Wed Feb 06, 2019 5:00 pm

Even if the same fare... a real mainline seat in Y on WN, not the VY FR U2 experience on HA's B712s.[/quote]

If they aren't carrying bags, people won't cough up the money for a slightly larger seat.

Plus, the 738s would have it tougher doing interisland than the 712s.
Delta Gold Medallion and Southwest A-List
 
KMCOFlyer
Posts: 173
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2017 5:32 am

Re: Updated: WN 8725 KOAK - PHNL She's on her way!

Wed Feb 06, 2019 5:03 pm

I have a feeling that getting seats together won't be too much of an issue on WN HI flights. If you think about it most of the people flying on WN to Hawaii will be families and couples flying together. With this in mind, most of them will take up rows of seats and won't just be looking for window, aisles only as compared to a WN business heavy route like DAL-HOU, etc. So if you are in the low B group or maybe even C, I think that it is likely that you will find seats together, although probably at the back of the plane.
 
wnflyguy
Topic Author
Posts: 1657
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Updated: WN 8725 KOAK - PHNL She's on her way!

Wed Feb 06, 2019 5:11 pm

WN will do just fine in Hawaii.
Inter island will make money because the fare stage length is basically the same as inter California.
In addition to pax revenue WN will be running there successful freight product on inter island flights only.

Will WN bleed HA to death in a fare war? No. But having serious competition with drive up the demand for inter island travel. In the long run Hawaiian should actually see a increase of traffic going against WN.
I think inter island on WN will cap out with 20 flights total within the islands.

Flyguy
Last edited by wnflyguy on Wed Feb 06, 2019 5:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
 
barney captain
Posts: 2167
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 5:47 pm

Re: Updated: WN 8725 KOAK - PHNL She's on her way!

Wed Feb 06, 2019 5:12 pm

mcdu wrote:
WN isn’t a new airline. There have been airlines younger than WN get into the HI market. Doing something 20 years after it was first accomplished is not something to rave about. Goodness gracious you would think they landed on the moon.

I just hope their pilots understand the rules of Class II and oceanic airspace. There are no short cuts and you have to fly the assigned Mach number. Leave your cowboy boots and hats in the closet. This is not something to take lightly.


Paragraph 1 - ETOPS is no big deal.

Paragraph 2 - ETOPS is a big deal.

Which is it?

You do realize that most of our 10,000 pilots have never owned a cowboy hat or lived in Texas, right? (Yes, I get the sarcasm). The crews flying to HI are based in OAK and LAX - many of whom have done plenty of overwater flights either from previous airlines or the military.
Last edited by barney captain on Wed Feb 06, 2019 5:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Southeast Of Disorder
 
flydulles
Posts: 121
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2016 3:59 pm

Re: Updated: WN 8725 KOAK - PHNL She's on her way!

Wed Feb 06, 2019 5:19 pm

Just wondering how many test flights can we expect?
 
FlyHossD
Posts: 1889
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:45 pm

Re: WN and Hawaii.

Wed Feb 06, 2019 5:19 pm

Regarding FAA antics on proving flights:

BravoOne wrote:
...An example of FAA oversight. North America to EGLL on a 777 ETOPS validation flight. Diverted into EINN and the engine required a bore scope for a further service sign off. No 777/RR bore scope tool could be found, and the airline had to charter an airplane and ferry one over to EINN from EGLL so as to pass the validation process. These FAA folks have a wicked imagination at times and if it's the FAA guy I'm thinking of, he will give you fits before it's over. Expect the unexpected best describes how this works.


BravoOne, your statements reminded me of a few stories during proving runs. It was a highly educational experience, to say the least (we had some great fun, too).
My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
 
braniff2hav
Posts: 159
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2015 9:20 pm

Re: Updated: WN 8725 KOAK - PHNL She's on her way!

Wed Feb 06, 2019 5:20 pm

arcticcruiser wrote:
So a 737 flew from California to Hawaii... I am sure we are all gonna remember where we were when we heard about it...



Will never forget this moment! I don't get the hype at all.

I hope the people of Hawaii remember who has been serving them all these years and that economic force for their state.
 
INFINITI329
Posts: 2429
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:53 am

Re: Updated: WN 8725 KOAK - PHNL She's on her way!

Wed Feb 06, 2019 5:27 pm

cledaybuck wrote:
INFINITI329 wrote:
MrBretz wrote:
Let me repost what I found on SWA website about early bird check in:

"There is no limit to the number of passengers that can purchase Early Bird check-in. Based on the rules for assigning boarding passes, if there are enough A-List travelers and people buying Early Bird check-in, you could still end up in Boarding Group C. That situation is highly unlikely, but it is possible."


This happens more than people realize. If you have over 30 business select fares and/or enough people who decide to upgrade their boarding position then you're possibly already in the B group. Then you have to compete with the other "early birds". Depending on the flight early bird can be a waste. Boarding anytime after family boarding the chance you'll be separated from your party increases.
No it doesn't. There are only 15 BS fares sold per flight. You do have A listers who could push the beginning of early bird to B, but usually it is in A. I think early bird is almost always a waste. All the seats are economy! If you check in at T-24, you will be able to sit with your group probably 90% of the time. If a seat assignment is that important to you, you shouldn't be flying WN. Just know that other airlines don't guarantee those seats you have been assigned either.


I forgot about the cap, however, i have definitely seen some early birds in the late Bs (B16+) unsure how that happened but it did.
 
cledaybuck
Posts: 1387
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2016 6:07 pm

Re: Updated: WN 8725 KOAK - PHNL She's on her way!

Wed Feb 06, 2019 5:37 pm

braniff2hav wrote:
arcticcruiser wrote:
So a 737 flew from California to Hawaii... I am sure we are all gonna remember where we were when we heard about it...



Will never forget this moment! I don't get the hype at all.

I hope the people of Hawaii remember who has been serving them all these years and that economic force for their state.
Did the people of Hawaii refuse to fly AS when they came in because others had be serving Hawaii longer?
 
barney captain
Posts: 2167
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 5:47 pm

Re: Updated: WN 8725 KOAK - PHNL She's on her way!

Wed Feb 06, 2019 5:38 pm

braniff2hav wrote:
arcticcruiser wrote:
So a 737 flew from California to Hawaii... I am sure we are all gonna remember where we were when we heard about it...



Will never forget this moment! I don't get the hype at all.


It's because we've come so far from very modest beginnings - and against many odds. I just wish Herb had lived to see it.

Image
Southeast Of Disorder
 
cledaybuck
Posts: 1387
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2016 6:07 pm

Re: Updated: WN 8725 KOAK - PHNL She's on her way!

Wed Feb 06, 2019 5:38 pm

INFINITI329 wrote:
cledaybuck wrote:
INFINITI329 wrote:

This happens more than people realize. If you have over 30 business select fares and/or enough people who decide to upgrade their boarding position then you're possibly already in the B group. Then you have to compete with the other "early birds". Depending on the flight early bird can be a waste. Boarding anytime after family boarding the chance you'll be separated from your party increases.
No it doesn't. There are only 15 BS fares sold per flight. You do have A listers who could push the beginning of early bird to B, but usually it is in A. I think early bird is almost always a waste. All the seats are economy! If you check in at T-24, you will be able to sit with your group probably 90% of the time. If a seat assignment is that important to you, you shouldn't be flying WN. Just know that other airlines don't guarantee those seats you have been assigned either.


I forgot about the cap, however, i have definitely seen some early birds in the late Bs (B16+) unsure how that happened but it did.

Probably a combination of a lot of A listers and a lot of people buying early bird.
 
cschleic
Posts: 1661
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 10:47 pm

Re: Updated: WN 8725 KOAK - PHNL She's on her way!

Wed Feb 06, 2019 5:41 pm

usflyguy wrote:
MrBretz wrote:
Let me repost what I found on SWA website about early bird check in:

"There is no limit to the number of passengers that can purchase Early Bird check-in. Based on the rules for assigning boarding passes, if there are enough A-List travelers and people buying Early Bird check-in, you could still end up in Boarding Group C. That situation is highly unlikely, but it is possible."


And let me quote to you the back of the Tylenol bottle... “This medication may cause death.”

It’s called legalese and covering all of the bases when you’re selling a service.


With Early Bird, I'm often in group B even with it, albeit a low B number. Maybe better to just go to the gate instead and buy the "upgrade" to A 1 - 15...I've never seen that group full.
 
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fraspotter
Posts: 2212
Joined: Sat May 08, 2004 8:12 pm

Re: WN 8725 KOAK - PHNL She's on her way!

Wed Feb 06, 2019 5:59 pm

mcdu wrote:
737’s go to the islands everyday. This is not a major event. If anything WN is really late to the party. Having a home in the islands I haven’t heard anyone pining to have WN serving Hawaii. Most are FF of UA, HA or AK and don’t see the need for WN. WN may fare similarly to Allegiant.

Reminds me of the AW 747 service to japan. They created flying that didn’t fit the company. WN is not a good fit for long haul vacation traffic. Families want to sit together. They may have children too old for pre boarding and they may only make those once a year trips. Assigned seats are a big item for families on a vacation. No ability to get hot food even with but on board or a premium cabin is going to hurt also. Let’s see how well this experiment works out.


:roll: Ah yes how did families with kids ever previously travel without reserved seats on WN? Cal-Hawaii flights aren't any longer than most trans-cons and people with kids fly those every day on WN.
"The strength of the turbulence is directly proportional to the temperature of your coffee."

— Gunter's Second Law of Air Travel
 
RamblinMan
Posts: 1027
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2010 3:57 pm

Re: WN and Hawaii.

Wed Feb 06, 2019 6:01 pm

cledaybuck wrote:
drerx7 wrote:
planecane wrote:
This would keep me from flying WN to Hawaii unless the cost for business select was not too much more than flying an airline with assigned seats plus baggage fees. I'll fly WN on 2-3 hr trips because if I don't get to sit next to my wife it won't be the end of the world. 6 hrs is past the limit for me.

If WN ever went to assigned seats (even if they charged for assignment and people that don't want to pay board last first come first served) they'd be the perfect airline. I will say that the boarding process is noticably faster on WN than any other airline.

Is this really a thing? I've flown WN for decades and have never ever had an issue not being able to sit with friends or family. I suppose it can happen if folks are amongst the last to board...but that isn't a constant. If a half way concerted effort is made to sit with your friends or family...this will be a non-issue.
I don't get it either, but it certainly is a thing. Read flyertalk sometime, and you will see the amount of obsessing about seats (and not just on WN) is crazy, especially for an airline that only has economy.


I remember back before they had boarding numbers, just an A, B, or C. I would get to the gate in BNA for a quick 70 minute ride up to MDW and if I found all the seats taken in the waiting area, I would simply go stand in the "B" corral for a few minutes while everyone waiting got up and lined up behind me. Then I would go sit down and wait till boarding. If people obsess over seats like this for a routine hour shorthaul I can only imagine the craziness that could ensue for a 6-hour.

That being said, I've had many more experiences being separated from family on airlines with assigned seats. It even happened on my first-ever transatlantic flight at the age of 14 with my parents. We all got separated and somehow we all survived. People make a bigger deal of it than it ought to be, and for some, this will be a deal-breaker.
 
User avatar
fraspotter
Posts: 2212
Joined: Sat May 08, 2004 8:12 pm

Re: Updated: WN 8725 KOAK - PHNL She's on her way!

Wed Feb 06, 2019 6:04 pm

cledaybuck wrote:
INFINITI329 wrote:
cledaybuck wrote:
No it doesn't. There are only 15 BS fares sold per flight. You do have A listers who could push the beginning of early bird to B, but usually it is in A. I think early bird is almost always a waste. All the seats are economy! If you check in at T-24, you will be able to sit with your group probably 90% of the time. If a seat assignment is that important to you, you shouldn't be flying WN. Just know that other airlines don't guarantee those seats you have been assigned either.


I forgot about the cap, however, i have definitely seen some early birds in the late Bs (B16+) unsure how that happened but it did.

Probably a combination of a lot of A listers and a lot of people buying early bird.


With WN going to a variable rate for Early Bird (depending on length and popularity of the flight among other factors rather than just a flat $15 per person each way regardless of flight trip length like it was previously) maybe we'll be a difference in how many people buy it.
"The strength of the turbulence is directly proportional to the temperature of your coffee."

— Gunter's Second Law of Air Travel
 
mcdu
Posts: 1496
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:23 am

Re: Updated: WN 8725 KOAK - PHNL She's on her way!

Wed Feb 06, 2019 6:13 pm

barney captain wrote:
braniff2hav wrote:
arcticcruiser wrote:
So a 737 flew from California to Hawaii... I am sure we are all gonna remember where we were when we heard about it...



Will never forget this moment! I don't get the hype at all.


It's because we've come so far from very modest beginnings - and against many odds. I just wish Herb had lived to see it.

Image



I’ve read that the napkin never actually happened. It is all urban legend.

Found this in anet in fact an interview with Rollin King
————————
Rollin King, the man with the plan behind Southwest Airlines in 1966, says now that there never was a napkin. The story of the golden triangle route map drawn out on a cocktail napkin has been immortalized, even in history and training materials put out by the company, and in all kinds of books about the Southwest. Supposedly, this is why every Southwest Airlines cocktail napkin was printed with the current route map of the period.
Last edited by mcdu on Wed Feb 06, 2019 6:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
mcdu
Posts: 1496
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:23 am

Re: WN and Hawaii.

Wed Feb 06, 2019 6:17 pm

RamblinMan wrote:
cledaybuck wrote:
drerx7 wrote:
Is this really a thing? I've flown WN for decades and have never ever had an issue not being able to sit with friends or family. I suppose it can happen if folks are amongst the last to board...but that isn't a constant. If a half way concerted effort is made to sit with your friends or family...this will be a non-issue.
I don't get it either, but it certainly is a thing. Read flyertalk sometime, and you will see the amount of obsessing about seats (and not just on WN) is crazy, especially for an airline that only has economy.


I remember back before they had boarding numbers, just an A, B, or C. I would get to the gate in BNA for a quick 70 minute ride up to MDW and if I found all the seats taken in the waiting area, I would simply go stand in the "B" corral for a few minutes while everyone waiting got up and lined up behind me. Then I would go sit down and wait till boarding. If people obsess over seats like this for a routine hour shorthaul I can only imagine the craziness that could ensue for a 6-hour.

That being said, I've had many more experiences being separated from family on airlines with assigned seats. It even happened on my first-ever transatlantic flight at the age of 14 with my parents. We all got separated and somehow we all survived. People make a bigger deal of it than it ought to be, and for some, this will be a deal-breaker.


Because everyone wants to sit next to someone’s kid for 6 hours while they yell for Mom every five minutes. So the option is give up the desirable seat you were able to get to now let mom sit next to the runny nosed kid. Meanwhile you get shoehorned into a middle seat. Yes this is going to make people really happy.
 
cledaybuck
Posts: 1387
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2016 6:07 pm

Re: WN and Hawaii.

Wed Feb 06, 2019 6:39 pm

mcdu wrote:
RamblinMan wrote:
cledaybuck wrote:
I don't get it either, but it certainly is a thing. Read flyertalk sometime, and you will see the amount of obsessing about seats (and not just on WN) is crazy, especially for an airline that only has economy.


I remember back before they had boarding numbers, just an A, B, or C. I would get to the gate in BNA for a quick 70 minute ride up to MDW and if I found all the seats taken in the waiting area, I would simply go stand in the "B" corral for a few minutes while everyone waiting got up and lined up behind me. Then I would go sit down and wait till boarding. If people obsess over seats like this for a routine hour shorthaul I can only imagine the craziness that could ensue for a 6-hour.

That being said, I've had many more experiences being separated from family on airlines with assigned seats. It even happened on my first-ever transatlantic flight at the age of 14 with my parents. We all got separated and somehow we all survived. People make a bigger deal of it than it ought to be, and for some, this will be a deal-breaker.


Because everyone wants to sit next to someone’s kid for 6 hours while they yell for Mom every five minutes. So the option is give up the desirable seat you were able to get to now let mom sit next to the runny nosed kid. Meanwhile you get shoehorned into a middle seat. Yes this is going to make people really happy.
No, what they really want is to have to pay extra to be able to select their crappy coach seat and put a carry on in the overhead bin. :roll: It's not like this way of selecting seats is new on WN. Most Americans seem to have accepted it considering they carry more domestic passengers than any other airline.
 
strfyr51
Posts: 3744
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

Re: WN and Hawaii.

Wed Feb 06, 2019 7:17 pm

WNCrew wrote:
usxguy wrote:
and car rentals. Overbooking & having to wait an hour + is the norm, even for those with top tier status.

https://www.kitv.com/story/39822423/hun ... y-runs-out



WOW... why does anyone bother flying there then if it's so awful?

I've been to Hawaii dozens of times and never saw a lack o.f Hotel rooms or cars, I always book in Waikiki and I always book with Hertz. I've never missed and I always get a Mustang convertible!!
 
mcdu
Posts: 1496
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:23 am

Re: WN and Hawaii.

Wed Feb 06, 2019 7:52 pm

cledaybuck wrote:
mcdu wrote:
RamblinMan wrote:

I remember back before they had boarding numbers, just an A, B, or C. I would get to the gate in BNA for a quick 70 minute ride up to MDW and if I found all the seats taken in the waiting area, I would simply go stand in the "B" corral for a few minutes while everyone waiting got up and lined up behind me. Then I would go sit down and wait till boarding. If people obsess over seats like this for a routine hour shorthaul I can only imagine the craziness that could ensue for a 6-hour.

That being said, I've had many more experiences being separated from family on airlines with assigned seats. It even happened on my first-ever transatlantic flight at the age of 14 with my parents. We all got separated and somehow we all survived. People make a bigger deal of it than it ought to be, and for some, this will be a deal-breaker.


Because everyone wants to sit next to someone’s kid for 6 hours while they yell for Mom every five minutes. So the option is give up the desirable seat you were able to get to now let mom sit next to the runny nosed kid. Meanwhile you get shoehorned into a middle seat. Yes this is going to make people really happy.
No, what they really want is to have to pay extra to be able to select their crappy coach seat and put a carry on in the overhead bin. :roll: It's not like this way of selecting seats is new on WN. Most Americans seem to have accepted it considering they carry more domestic passengers than any other airline.


If you are a FF you don’t pay extra to select a E+ seat, you get higher boarding priority included. The ones that don’t get seats are the one off travelers who buy basic economy andthe WN customers that need to get to all those cities WN doesn’t serve.
 
iflykpdx
Posts: 239
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 8:42 am

Re: Updated: WN 8725 KOAK - PHNL She's on her way!

Wed Feb 06, 2019 7:57 pm

Return flight about to depart.
Airport Management - UND
 
User avatar
jaybird
Posts: 341
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2001 4:23 am

Re: Updated: WN 8725 KOAK - PHNL She's on her way!

Wed Feb 06, 2019 8:07 pm

gone! got to see the flash of orange tail lifting off the Reef Runway from the lunch room in our office ..
 
cledaybuck
Posts: 1387
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2016 6:07 pm

Re: WN and Hawaii.

Wed Feb 06, 2019 8:09 pm

mcdu wrote:
cledaybuck wrote:
mcdu wrote:

Because everyone wants to sit next to someone’s kid for 6 hours while they yell for Mom every five minutes. So the option is give up the desirable seat you were able to get to now let mom sit next to the runny nosed kid. Meanwhile you get shoehorned into a middle seat. Yes this is going to make people really happy.
No, what they really want is to have to pay extra to be able to select their crappy coach seat and put a carry on in the overhead bin. :roll: It's not like this way of selecting seats is new on WN. Most Americans seem to have accepted it considering they carry more domestic passengers than any other airline.


If you are a FF you don’t pay extra to select a E+ seat, you get higher boarding priority included. The ones that don’t get seats are the one off travelers who buy basic economy andthe WN customers that need to get to all those cities WN doesn’t serve.
Even if you are a elite FF with UA, you still have to pay for regular economy to be able to get an assigned seat. You can't buy basic economy. They generously also let "WN customers that need to get to all those cities that WN doesn't serve" (which I guess there will be at least two less of now) select a seat if they pay the extra $30ish each way for economy. They will even let you pay $30 to check a bag and $200 to change your ticket too. What a bargain! If you are an elite FF with WN, you get checked in before everyone except BS fares.
 
mcdu
Posts: 1496
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:23 am

Re: WN and Hawaii.

Wed Feb 06, 2019 8:22 pm

cledaybuck wrote:
mcdu wrote:
cledaybuck wrote:
No, what they really want is to have to pay extra to be able to select their crappy coach seat and put a carry on in the overhead bin. :roll: It's not like this way of selecting seats is new on WN. Most Americans seem to have accepted it considering they carry more domestic passengers than any other airline.


If you are a FF you don’t pay extra to select a E+ seat, you get higher boarding priority included. The ones that don’t get seats are the one off travelers who buy basic economy andthe WN customers that need to get to all those cities WN doesn’t serve.
Even if you are a elite FF with UA, you still have to pay for regular economy to be able to get an assigned seat. You can't buy basic economy. They generously also let "WN customers that need to get to all those cities that WN doesn't serve" (which I guess there will be at least two less of now) select a seat if they pay the extra $30ish each way for economy. They will even let you pay $30 to check a bag and $200 to change your ticket too. What a bargain! If you are an elite FF with WN, you get checked in before everyone except BS fares.



And where do you get the assigned seat on WN? Where is that fare bucket? Can I pay in Euros?
 
WeatherPilot
Posts: 428
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2017 1:51 am

Re: Updated: WN 8725 KOAK - PHNL She's on her way!

Wed Feb 06, 2019 8:47 pm

Correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t think the 738 has the range to go HNL-DAL nonstop. The trip is listed at about 3800 miles and the range for that plane is only about 3400 miles.
 
cledaybuck
Posts: 1387
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2016 6:07 pm

Re: WN and Hawaii.

Wed Feb 06, 2019 8:53 pm

mcdu wrote:
cledaybuck wrote:
mcdu wrote:

If you are a FF you don’t pay extra to select a E+ seat, you get higher boarding priority included. The ones that don’t get seats are the one off travelers who buy basic economy andthe WN customers that need to get to all those cities WN doesn’t serve.
Even if you are a elite FF with UA, you still have to pay for regular economy to be able to get an assigned seat. You can't buy basic economy. They generously also let "WN customers that need to get to all those cities that WN doesn't serve" (which I guess there will be at least two less of now) select a seat if they pay the extra $30ish each way for economy. They will even let you pay $30 to check a bag and $200 to change your ticket too. What a bargain! If you are an elite FF with WN, you get checked in before everyone except BS fares.



And where do you get the assigned seat on WN? Where is that fare bucket? Can I pay in Euros?
You don't get an assigned seat on WN. Period. If it is that important to you, fly someone else. 120 million people per year seem to be able to work with it though.
 
nc3rd
Posts: 85
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2014 5:52 pm

Re: Updated: WN 8725 KOAK - PHNL She's on her way!

Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:05 pm

Ridiculous hype doing what other airlines have already been doing for decades. Welcome to Hawaii, you're late, and not really needed.
The views written above are mine and mine alone and do not represent any official information from any airline or company
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 8453
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Updated: WN 8725 KOAK - PHNL She's on her way!

Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:14 pm

WeatherPilot wrote:
Correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t think the 738 has the range to go HNL-DAL nonstop. The trip is listed at about 3800 miles and the range for that plane is only about 3400 miles.

Unloaded it can probably make it. However won't the 737-7 have the range? WN has 30 of those on order.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
ScottB
Posts: 6551
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

Re: WN and Hawaii.

Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:18 pm

mcdu wrote:
If you are a FF you don’t pay extra to select a E+ seat, you get higher boarding priority included. The ones that don’t get seats are the one off travelers who buy basic economy andthe WN customers that need to get to all those cities WN doesn’t serve.


Actually, you do have to pay extra for E+ on UA, even if you're a 1K (I'm going to assume they'd bend the rules for GS). A Basic Economy fare doesn't allow Premier members to be upgraded into an E+ seat.

mcdu wrote:
And where do you get the assigned seat on WN?


If one must have an assigned seat, a different airline is a better choice. 135 million paying customers in 2018 would beg to differ.

WeatherPilot wrote:
I don’t think the 738 has the range to go HNL-DAL nonstop. The trip is listed at about 3800 miles and the range for that plane is only about 3400 miles.


Range is dependent on winds, payload, weather, etc. It's likely not a problem when the cabin has maybe 20 people and there's no luggage or freight.
 
mcdu
Posts: 1496
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:23 am

Re: WN and Hawaii.

Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:19 pm

cledaybuck wrote:
mcdu wrote:
cledaybuck wrote:
Even if you are a elite FF with UA, you still have to pay for regular economy to be able to get an assigned seat. You can't buy basic economy. They generously also let "WN customers that need to get to all those cities that WN doesn't serve" (which I guess there will be at least two less of now) select a seat if they pay the extra $30ish each way for economy. They will even let you pay $30 to check a bag and $200 to change your ticket too. What a bargain! If you are an elite FF with WN, you get checked in before everyone except BS fares.



And where do you get the assigned seat on WN? Where is that fare bucket? Can I pay in Euros?
You don't get an assigned seat on WN. Period. If it is that important to you, fly someone else. 120 million people per year seem to be able to work with it though.


Great adaptation to the market. That will serve you well. Lol
 
flydulles
Posts: 121
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2016 3:59 pm

Re: Updated: WN 8725 KOAK - PHNL She's on her way!

Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:28 pm

How many practice trys will southwest gonna to have to Do? Any idea
 
cledaybuck
Posts: 1387
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2016 6:07 pm

Re: WN and Hawaii.

Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:29 pm

mcdu wrote:
cledaybuck wrote:
mcdu wrote:


And where do you get the assigned seat on WN? Where is that fare bucket? Can I pay in Euros?
You don't get an assigned seat on WN. Period. If it is that important to you, fly someone else. 120 million people per year seem to be able to work with it though.


Great adaptation to the market. That will serve you well. Lol
I think they will do just fine.
 
User avatar
Eindhoven
Posts: 186
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2016 1:21 pm

Re: Updated: WN 8725 KOAK - PHNL She's on her way!

Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:29 pm

Does anybody know if they plan to fly ONT-HNL too? WN does fly to ONT. They fly HNL from OAK instead of SFO, why not ONT instead of LAX?
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